Happy Sad Confused - Edgar Wright, Vol. II, & Sparks, "Hacks"

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

Whether you're a fan of Sparks or a newbie like Josh, you'll love Edgar Wright's new documentary, "The Sparks Brothers". Edgar and Sparks themselves join Josh on this episode to chat about the flick, their mutual love of "Ishtar", and how Edgar might be responsible for Anya Taylor-Joy landing the role of Furiosa. Plus, Josh catches up with Paul W. Downs and Lucia Aniello for a quick chat about their new HBO Max series, "Hacks"! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad Confused, Edgar Wright and the Sparks Brothers on their new documentary, plus the creators of the new show Hacks. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrow.

Let's welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Yep, we got a lot of show for you guys today. Sometimes there is just an embarrassment of riches, and I had to squeeze in two conversations into the same. episode. So first up, I want to mention the Sparks Brothers. The Sparks Brothers is the new documentary from the great Edgar Wright, who of course you know from Shama the Dead and Hot Fuzz and World's End and Baby Driver and all sorts of amazing work. And this, I am pleased to say, is his first venture into the world of documentaries. It is, as you would expect from Edgar, who has as much love for music as he

does film and exploration of the band Sparks. Now, I went into this, not know. basically anything about Sparks, and it more than worked on me. I've heard from a lot of people who have seen this doc called the Sparks Brothers, who, like me, yeah, just were totally ignorant about their work. They are a rock and pop kind of duo who have influenced folks for decades, in fact, their brothers, their real names are Ron and Russell Mail, and they are fascinating characters. They are funny and irreverent and talented,

and just a treat to be around for two plus hours. And Edgar, as you would expect, creates nothing close to the typical kind of boring talking heads documentary. This is an Edgar Wright film in that it is hugely entertaining from start to finish. So high, big recommendations for the Sparks Brothers. And this conversation coming up is a delight. It is Edgar, along with Sparks themselves, who are just the joy to talk to. And I should mention also they've got a huge year coming up. Not only is the Sparks Brothers out now, but you can check out in just a few months

the new film Annette, which is a musical that is written by them that stars no less than Marion Cotillard and Adam Driver. Sparks, as you'll see from the dock, have been trying to collaborate with filmmakers for years, folks like Tim Burton, and finally it has happened, and this film is about to drop. It's going to debut at Cannes. And I'm so thrilled for them, and I'm so thrilled we're going to get to see so much work from Sparks on the big screen this year. Later on the podcast, after this conversation with Edgar and Ron and Russell, we have a great chat with Lucia Aniello and Paul W. Downs. They are the real-life partners that are behind this great new HBO Max show called Hacks.

Hacks, if you haven't heard yet, is about a kind of an older Vegas comedian played by the Great Gene Smart and a younger woman. woman who is a writer and comedian in her own right and their relationship. It's, I guess, in that dromedy vein, very funny, but also goes to some dark and serious territory at times. And the buzz has been building on this one ever since it dropped on HBO Max and thrilled that I had a chance to have a brief chat with Paul and Lucia, who have done a lot of great work over the years. They were big contributors to Broad City. They've done some film work. They did the film Rough Night a few years ago. And like I say, this new one, Gene Smart in particular is getting a well-deserved accolades for her performance in this.

And it's just a part of the Jean Smartisance, if we want to call it that, thanks to her roles in projects like Fargo and Watchmen and Mayor of East Town, and now Hacks. So if you haven't gotten on board with Hacks yet, check it out. And if you just want to hear this conversation first and decide if the show is for you, stick around. That conversation is coming up a little later in the show. Other things to mention, really excited. We have a new Game Night episode over on the Happy Say.

confused patreon page you know where to find it it's patreon.com slash happy sad confused this is a big one because we did it in person at the behest of mr david harbour ventured over to david's apartment got into bed with him and shenanigans ensued that sounds wrong it nothing wrong about this this was a delight david is fantastic he of course is starring in black widow which i've seen great when he's starting the new stephen soderberg film no sudden move sodaberg coming up on the podcast. And of course, Stranger Things, season four is not so far away either. So that game night episode is a very special one. I highly recommend it. If you're down for it, go bird patreon.com slash happy, said, confused. A lot more game game nights to come. We've already shot two other

episodes that are coming with huge guests that I know you will dig. So give it a try. Why not. Other stuff to keep up with in the Josh Harrowitz universe, chatted with Vin Diesel, but one and only Vin Diesel. That's coming up on MTV News's YouTube page. Check that out. Chatted with Scarlett Johansson and Florence Pew for Black Widow. That's coming soon. Gosh, what else? There's a lot. It's a busy time. We're in the thick of it now. We're in summer. Big summer movie season. A lot going on. The podcast is bursting at its seams with so many guests. These are all good problems to have. right folks all right enjoy this first chat i'll be back on the other side teasing a little bit of

my chat with the hacks creators but for now enjoy this conversation with ron and russell aka sparks and the great edgar right edgar is always a pleasure to see you uh ron and russell this is an honor uh congratulations on on everything your amazing body of work and this participation in this awesome documentary and welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Of course, of course. Let's first just talk, I'm curious, you know,

intersections of interests between all of us and most particularly you three. Do you guys share film and music tastes as you've gotten to know each other? Have you found that, like, that has been a point of connection in this journey as you've gotten to know each other? It's funny, I mean, I can, well,

if I speak, sort of, I mean, You know, like, I think one of the things is really sweet, like, in terms of when we're not talking about, like, sparks or our, like, respective films, like, between the three of us, there's, like, three movies this year. No, four movies this year. No, wait, wait, what am I doing? Three movies. Yeah. Sorry. So, but then outside of that, I feel like we do talk about films because I think sort of, like, at heart, like, beyond the music, sort of, the thing that we have in common is that we're all film geeks.

that would be fair to say, isn't it? No, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, and I, you know, I think there's a shared sensibility about that. And, you know, also just, you know, I mean, we've never sat down and talked about, you know, what kind of music, you know, all that kind of stuff. But just judging from the music that's in Edgar's films, they haven't been purely a musical, but they are music driven. and the music that's selected for his films,

you can tell that we're on the same wavelength. And on the film side, if I had any doubts that I was also on a similar wavelength to you gentlemen, I noticed that you were asked, I think by Alamo Draft House for some of your favorite films, and top of the list is one of my favorites.

I own a Warren Beatty signed Ishtar poster. Oh, man, get out of here. So let's sing the praises of Elaine May's delicious, come on moment why was this maligned why do we love this movie well you know we had we had a weird experience because we saw it without the kind of the impact of the public disdain for it we russell and i actually saw it they used to have these uh previews at movie theaters like a movie that would be coming up next week and you get a surprise preview and they would show it on friday with with the regular movie that was

playing there and that was always an exciting event because you know you didn't know what it was going to be i mean things now with the internet and all it's more everything is kind of out in the open so this movie came on it was ishtar and i was just on on the floor laughing the whole time which is kind of quite a feat because i don't generally do that and and also i just thought it was you know, I just thought it was a really great movie. And then to my surprise, next week, I found out this is one of the biggest turkeys of all time, both artistically and in terms of box office. So then you start to question your whole, am I wrong about a lot of things, you know, that kind of thing, because it was so counter, my reaction was so counter to what, you know,

the prevailing kind of feeling was about the film. It has kind of shifted back a bit as it tends to do with, you know, with some of those kind of maligned films. Yeah. The baggage of the time is gone. I will go to my grave defending anything by Elaine May, I will defend. Elaine May has that famous quote where she says, if everybody who hated Ishtar paid to see it, I'd be a rich woman. I will say as well, it's interesting, like, if you think about it, like, now,

is that there is that thing where you can look at it in a different light, because, like, female directors now have, like, a very high bar to clear. Like, people expect so much of those films, and they've kind of got, like, an extra sort of pressure on them. And that's not dissimilar to the time. It's like a weird thing that happened is, like, wait, when did everybody decide that Elaine May needed a kicking? It's so strange.

She's only made for movies. I know. Her batting average is pretty good. She never made another one. She never made another one, and she should have. Yeah. I was talking to you, Edgar, before we started this. And for me, this film seems to be like the artistic expression of that sense of when you come up to a friend and say, have you listened to this?

Have you seen this? Let me explain to you why you're missing this amazing thing. Is that kind of, was that kind of the mission statement when you decided to endeavor to make the Sparks Brothers? Yeah, I mean, I've joked before that me making the documentary was easier than me trying to explain Sparks Over Dinner. I was just thinking. And also, there's other times when it came into my head before I'd started to kind of manifest the idea of there being a documentary, because I would sometimes go down the YouTube rabbit hole of watching Sparks clips because I'd love them on record, but then just watching like clips on the internet it was always so entertaining and probably at some

point when a friend was over my house and we were just watching different youtube clips i'd probably started to think subconsciously hmm wouldn't it be great if all these clips are in one place like and it was all in the same thing but but it wasn't it was a sense of like obviously when you become a fan of a band or you could say this about a film or a book or whatever but like you become sort of an evangelist for that band and then i think with sparks is that they do do obviously have like a fan base across the world. And then there are people who have never heard of them, but the people who haven't heard of them certainly know the music of the people that they influenced. So for my part, is like there's a story to tell here. And as a fan, I was

always, I was particularly impressed by the fact that what Ron and Russell are doing now and have done in the last 20 years is as good, as ambitious, as daring, as inventive as what they were doing at the start and that was like that was against the trajectory of any other band and so I thought that was just remarkable and somebody needed to make a film about it you were the man for the job I mean when you when you collaborate on something like this and this is kind of you know a three person collaboration among many other collaborators but like it has to work with the three of you you need to Ron and Russell you need to trust that Edgar's going to interpret your work and life in the way that you you would want it to be interpreted. And

Edgar, you need the access and the buy-in of these gentlemen. I mean, was there a concern on either side? Like, Edgar, like, you may have admired these guys, but like, how did you know, like, wait, what if I find out a month in that these guys are dicks? Like, I am. He did, actually. It would have been a different documentary. It would have been cool, too. I'd like to watch that doc too I'd be right but brothers that sounds like more of a Nolan Liam Gallagher thing to me

no I mean I did I did know Ron and Russell before and in fact getting to know them there's that thing when I first met Ron and Ron in 2015 and you know that famous phrase and they say don't meet your heroes is like

and Ron and Russell were like a marvelous exception to that and I think sort of getting to know them and seeing like their work routine or just how they work and how kind of dedicated they are to being sparks or everything I learned like just made me want to tell the story more in a sense but like but then you know it's also something where and maybe you guys will speak about this but there is a thing where the band have existed as a sort of like enigmatic question mark for five decades and it's like I want to tell this story without kind of blowing that so then it's kind of like a balancing

So that was something that we did discuss. Well, yeah, I was going to say so, yeah, for you guys, I mean, you've kind of cultivated and managed your own image, like pretty, you know, ruthlessly over for many decades now. And then you don't want to, like, give up the game now. So how do you kind of seed control, as it were, to Edgar and still maintain some of the mystery that you've cultivated, et cetera? Was that kind of a difficult negotiation in a way for you guys?

Well, when it was Edgar, then it wasn't a difficult decision or situation because that was kind of the, I mean, it sounds dumb, but that's, that was the main reason that we were excited to do a documentary finally after having had propositions in the past that we were hesitant about because we didn't feel that the director was on the same wavelength in all sorts of ways about. relating our story and about the issue that you mentioned about, you know, giving up too much of your, of what maybe you've retained throughout your whole career and having it exposed in a way that maybe you feel isn't the kind of the right angle for it to be told. But when Edgar had proposed this idea, we just said, yes, because we're fans of Edgar's films. And we couldn't, really imagine how another film by Edgar, this time being a documentary, but still, but how it could possibly go off the rails, sort of. What are the odds will be the one that he screws up? Yeah, well, that was, that was always, no, the only thought we had in that area

and it wasn't that he would screw up by any means, but that we were hoping that Edgar would bring all of his Edgerness to this film, that it wouldn't be the outlier and kind of be, oh, here's a dull kind of conservative sort of documentary about us and that it would be looking like and feeling like an Edgar Wright film, despite the fact that it's a documentary.

And Edgar really, we feel like pulled it off amazingly well to make it an Edgar Wright film, but about Sparks. I think you sound did it up very well, Because, yes, I mean, at the end, one of the greatest compliments I can give this film is it feels as entertaining and idiosyncratic as any Edgar Wright film, and yet clearly reflects your unique stories and artistry as well. Edgar, this is your first doc. There are a thousand different ways to approach making a dock. You know, as Russell kind of alluded to, you want to, I would assume, reflect their approach to art and creativity in the way that you approach this doc. was it kind of tough to figure out, like, what's my approach that keeps entertaining for an audience

and reflects kind of like the mindset, the humor, the fun, the ethos of Sparks? How did you get there? Well, in a way, like, I'm not to say it wasn't difficult, but like, if anything, just like working with Ronne Russell and Spark story was a gift because I think if, like, we had, you know, I'd like to think if we'd met in it, you know, like we would have been friends back in the day if we'd met before because I think we probably have a very shared sensibilities and sense of humor. But in terms of what Ronald Russell do through Sparks is that I thought it was the same approach for the documentary is that they're very sincere about their songcraft and they're

serious about what they do, but that doesn't stop them having fun with the form. And it's a really difficult trick to pull off. And that's something that I thought that's the way to do the documentary is that I'm passionate about the subject. I'm serious about making a documentary, but it's not going to stop me slightly taking the piss out of the music documentary at the same time. And also because Ronald Russell have a great sense of humor about themselves and about everything, that that was something that could just bleed through the entire movie. And because you can see Ronald Russell's sense of humor in like in the music, in the lyrics, on the album covers, like in the videos and on stage. And there's that,

I guess it's that kind of like, you know, darterist, kind of self-reflexive sort of elements to it that just gets sort of fun to do, you know. There's a thing that Ron says in the documentary when he's talking about the French New Wave, and I'd never really thought of it in this way, but I think it perfectly describes what they do as well in music, is that Jean-Loup Goddard makes movies and also comments on making movies at the same time. And I think that sort of like Sparks managed to do that in their music, which is a very difficult trick to pull off. but it gave me like the license to kind of like really have fun with the form and not make it like a dry, you know, sonorous, soporific music documentary.

Was there anything, I mean, again, one of the key differences when you're doing a doc, there's no script. You start day one of shooting this, you might have an idea of the structure of this, but you kind of also have to go where the story takes you, where the stories of your interviewees take you, did you find that to be thrilling or frightening or what for you, Edgar, as you kind of like embarked on this different kind of path? Well, I guess the thing is, if you're making like a narrative film,

then you're creating the story. And with a documentary, the story exists, and you have to figure out how to make that film. And, you know, like the thing that's like the unusual thing about Ronald Russell's trajectory is it isn't like no other. band and most music documentaries follow the same trajectory as bands in terms of like a rise and fall and rise again and and spark's kind of like career of like left turns and surprising themselves is like it kind of like a wild ride and so i think there was i i knew what i wanted to do

and who i wanted to talk to and what it was going to look like and and how i wanted to kind of because because the recent albums were so impressive to me, I knew that there was like an ending because the ending is like, yes, what they're doing now is as good as what they were doing then. And that's, again, different from a lot of other bands. There are little things, though. I will say this, is that we had finished doing the documentary pretty much.

I had started doing last night in Soho. And then when I was in editing of last night and Soho, it wasn't until then that Annette got the green light. And as much as Ron and Russell, I know, were thrilled that Annette was finally happening after eight years. I was also like, ah, my B plot has an ending. Because it would have been such a bummer if throughout the movie you had all these stories about. And then we were going to do a film with Jacques Tattee, but it didn't come together. And then we were going to do a film with Tim Burton, but it didn't come together.

And it was like, yes, filmic triumph. And it's opening at Cannes. And it's a double whammy. I mean, anything to help the documentary. Yeah, that's, wow. That was really magnanimous of your gentleman. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

Yeah, we just did that, just to make it easier, you know. I mean, I'm so thrilled about Annette as well. We've gone on a little peak of it. And, you know, without delving too much into it, that this is going to be a big moment for you, gentlemen, too. You've been wanting to collaborate with a filmmaker in a narrative form for many years and have had some notable near, you know, creations. Were you on, just a little bit on, Annette, I'm just curious. This is Leo Carracks. This is Marion Cotillard, Adam Driver.

What was it like to be on set to see these amazingly talented performers interpret your work? Oh, it was really amazing because we, Ron and I have lived with the project for eight years. And basically me singing those roles. for eight years of the main role that Adam Driver then went and had to adopt. And, you know, and it's a really, it's a really amazing thing to see someone that's a real actor, you know, take over the same singing. You know, the same music was there, the same music tracks that Ron had written and had it done. They're there. But then the voices swapped out for

Adam Driver. And it, and it couldn't have been, we couldn't have been happier with how he interpreted the, um, the, the lead role. And we had met with him a few years back before it was still, uh, you know, green lit the film. And, and, um, and Adam was really passionate about the project. And we discussed the tone of the singing, the tone of the character that he, that he played. And, and we were on the same page. And, and, and, and, and, And it was just really great because it's hard for us to think of many actors, you know, that could and would want to do a singing role that's kind of not Broadway and big in that kind of way that's kind of more of a guy just, you know, he's, it's a musical as always has artifice in a certain way, but it's naturalistic how everything is delivered through the film. so the tone of it was really amazing to hear him do and that he sings like a guy coming from a band more than it from a guy coming from Broadway and that that worked out perfect because to slip in

another type of voice into that role we think would have you know could have been kind of ludicrous in a certain way but it just it's so natural for him the way he's saying so in any case long answer to yeah we're uh it it's it was an amazing saga but to get to the point where it is but uh everyone pulled it off so amazingly well everything you said it gets me that much more excited Edgar beyond being a good third act twist for your film you've seen the movie what's your totally impartial view as the ultimate sparks fan of Annette no he's he is totally impartial so go ahead Edgar I mean I you know I'm I'm I'm I'm allowed to say that I've seen it. It was extraordinary. I mean, I felt like I can't wait for people

to see it because not only is it completely bold and new for what Ronald Russell have done before, there's also a lot of sparks in there as well. So as a spot I was like, I was really in heaven because I wasn't quite expecting to sort of see Ron and Russell in the movie a couple of times. Maybe I'm saying too much now. But like, it's like, I just can't wait for people to see it. Like, it's so, it's so, and the thing as well is, like, for you guys and for Leos Carricks, it's like somebody asked me, like, um, said, oh, is it like, is it more mainstream than Leos's other films? And I was like, in an, in an, in an, in an, in an, an amazing way, it's even more bonkers.

That's great. That's exactly what you want to see. And like, I think so, we've been so deprived of like cinematic oxygen of like a sort of when, when, when, when, during the pandemic and a lot of films got taken off the table you know then there was a certain type of film left and i feel like that there's these films have been waiting in the wings mine included that like a sort of like i like the other films yeah no i think people are kind of like sort of going to like feel like there's an embarrassment of riches by the end of the year and annette it's just like it's exactly what you want to see so i think like people in can are going to be knocked out yeah the accessibility of it is is

that it's in English, so there's that. No, I mean, I don't, I don't mean it in that regard. I can't imagine, like, anybody, like, not being into it. But what I mean is, is it's not kind of like, it doesn't feel like any, you know, it would be a shame if it was your least idiosyncratic thing that you've done, but it's somehow, like, so you and so laos, and that's amazing. Speaking of idiosyncratic, maybe the least idiosyncratic thing about your film is the title. how much debate was there

over this title, gentlemen. I think I kept the title from Ronald Russell for a long time because as soon as it kind of came up and it occurred to me that that's what it should be called. And actually Harley, your first drummer, I don't know if

he told you this, but like, knowing how much you hated the moniker, the Sparks Brothers and how you had to kind of then compromise that to Sparks, when Harley saw the documentary at Sundance, he said he was, oh my god i can't believe you caught it that but i mean it just to me like i mean what i i felt like it was in the spirit of like sparks's willful obtuseness is it's fun it was just

funny to me to revert to your old manager's suggestion for the film title yeah well i think writer russell is it too late to change it no i have a a good rationale a good spin on it to support you now, that it wasn't only our former, it was actually the head of the label of Todd Rundgren's label, who was Albert Grossman, who was Bob Dillon's manager at the time. So in that way, the title was, the title of Edgar's documentary was given by Bob Dillon's manager. So that even goes, you know, that's kind of a cool story that we haven't even applied to that. You know, I've never asked you, actually, is like, where did they get the idea for Sparks? Because it's that funny thing of like, because also it's worth, as we say in the documentary,

at that time when there was five of you, there was also another set of brothers, like the Manky Brothers. But the thing is, it's like, why is Sparks? I mean, I was thinking as names for bands go, Sparks Brothers is pretty bad, but it's better than the Five Stooges. Albert, Albert Grossman had said, you know, it was reminded, yeah, it reminded of Mark's brothers, whether that's got any relevance at all to our situation. But, but so then he, I don't know how Mark's brothers warped into Sparks brothers. Yeah, it could have been the Parks brothers or the Larks brothers or the Lark's brothers. The question is, which one of you is Zepo, which one's Groucho?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, as long as neither of us are Zepo will be okay. No offense. The Zepo fans are going to be up in arms about this. Do you know that quote? Do you know that Zepo Marx quote? The funniest thing he said is what he said, they asked him about why he left the

troop, why he left the group, and he said he goes, well, there's only so many ways to say, here comes Groucho. Wow. Telling. This is kind of the trite obvious question, but I'll ask it nonetheless, for you gentlemen, seeing this finished product, to seeing your live, your careers like on the big screen, what were your impressions like watching it? You knew your own interviews, your own contributions to this, but then to see all these amazing artists talking about you in these terms, just give me a sense of like what this ride has been like for you, because again, you're not in necessarily control of this for the first time. You've given it up. and then to see this kind of amazing tribute, what's it been like for you? Well, I'm, I can go first. No, it was amazing and that, you know,

to have amassed that kind of group of people to speak about their, you know, their affection for the band was just like so amazing for us, apart from all the stylistic elements of how Edgar made that work and how he filmed those people kind of in sort of a bit of an homage to one of our album covers, the Richard Avedon Big Beat cover, having everybody shot in that really, really cool black and white and everything, all of the people that were being interviewed. But and that aside, just what the people said about Sparks was just so amazing for us because I'm probably like 90, 90% of the people

we've never had any contact with it all and had no awareness. They were even fans of the band. So to see people like, you know, so varied from Neil Gaiman analyzing one of our album covers in real detail and, you know, just who else just, you know, from, Duran Duran to, to New Order, to, you know, Vince Clark, you know, to Faith No More, just the variety and the different genres of music that the musical people spoke of. And then TV producers like the, like Amy, like Amy Shimmer and Palladino and her husband, you know, and it was just an actor seeing Mike Myers talking about the lyrics of one of our old songs, you know,

in such detail and and and uh with such kind of love and all it was just it was just amazing as as being kind of this uh you know something that we had no idea that that would that would be a part of it and the other side too is just how edgar managed to get kind of a through those what those people said about the documentary to this emotional side to the story that we we never even you know could have imagined that that would be a part of it because we're you know we're we're close to we're close to our own situation obviously and we just don't we we we don't see things in those kind of terms so when edgar kind of brought that out about the entire story of sparks that was just a whole other element that i think has really been a major element in the early kind of reaction

to the film that people are really responding to and and that that's something that we think like kind of maybe more important than anything is just that that that quality came through of the whole saga and for you ron is it a relief excitement what's been the the overriding emotion of this journey for you no i mean we we you know it wasn't that there was any doubt about what the outcome would be but it just just kind of the fact that it was kind of even beyond what we would be expecting, you know, it was, you know, is exhilarating. We were so, you know, we, we, you know, we're proud of what we did a few decades ago, but we kind of don't fixate on it.

I mean, that's kind of the way that we're able to kind of maintain some level of of movement in what we're doing. And so, you know, we were so appreciative of, of what Edgar did as far as shooting, four really big shows that were kind of featured towards the end of the documentary in London and Tokyo and Mexico City in Los Angeles. And, you know, that meant a lot to us because it kind of balanced everything. And so it was this, it was like kind of one story and not a story and then, you know, just kind of an afterward at some point. So, you know, if we, we couldn't, we couldn't be more pleased.

Edgar, have you decided, is Simon Pegg playing Ron? Is he playing Russell? Which one does Nick play? Have you decided in the dramatization? Who plays two? I hope you know, because it's a good trivia question for a... Oops. Oh, you dropped out for a second.

You still there? Can you repeat that, Edgar? You just dropped out for a second. I'm saying it's a good kind of pub trivia question for the future is that Simon and Nick are in the movie. Were you aware of that? I saw it on the IMDB, that they are notable voices in this. Simon Pegg does the voice of John Lennon and Nick does the voice of Ringo Starr.

The funny thing about that is both of them, I think Simon watched the clip, but I think Simon watched the clip and then lip synced like the John Lennon voice. But Nick, I'm not sure that he watched the clip and he just did it into his iPhone, but what's funny is Nick in Ringo Starr's voice is just saying, Hitler? So I got this the most amazing voice message from Nick Frost where he'd obviously just been there with his iPhone and gone, Hitler? Hitler?

So just hearing like Nick Frost do say Hitler in a Ringo Starvoys for 10, I just thought this is a, this should put this on the internet as an NFT, right? It's amazing. Thanks for bringing up NFTs so I can still not understand what they are. I just don't like the word fungible. I don't care what they're about. Fungible sounds like kind of mushrooms going off or something. Yeah. Do you have any moist fungibles nearby?

No. No, it's not good. That's not a good. As I let you go, Edgar, we're going to talk, I'm sure, later this year for last night in Soho. The trailer is gorgeous, looks amazing and hypnotic in the best ways. And we can... These guys may or may not have seen it. Yeah, I was just going to say we can not repaying for, because we want to need to repay, but just we, what Edgar said about Annette earlier, we've, we got the pleasure to see

last night in Soho. So also without giving away anything, because we don't want to do that, but it's stunning. I can tell. I have no doubt. You have an amazing cast at Annie Taylor Joy. You selected right before the world decided she's the next ginormous movie star on the planet. Did you have anything to do with helping her get Furiosa? Because I'm almost as excited for Curiosa as last night in Soho. Yeah, you know what? Weirdly enough, the last dinner that I had before lockdown, George Miller watched last night in Soho in London,

and we had dinner. It must have been the night before the lockdown because I remember we were in an empty restaurant and George Miller is a doctor. So we were talking about the pandemic because obviously George Miller has more intel than most. And because he is like, as you know, George Miller is a registered doctor still,

which is kind of incredible. yeah um but he but the next day he um talked to annia about playing furiosa so i i like to say that i last night in soho got ania the part in in furiosa and she's amazing though she's like a star she's a total star so you know no doubt about it well we've got our our watch list for the next year let's see we've got your wonderful doc here we've got last night in soho we've got annette we've got ishtar and next year i guess we've got furiosa there you go Gentlemen, a real pleasure to get to know you today. Congratulations on everything.

I'm sorry, I'm late to the party on your wonderful careers, but thanks to Edgar. I'm now an absolute fan. Oh, thank you. That's what matters. There you go. Thanks again, guys. Thank you.

Thanks, Joe. Paul, Lucia, welcome to the Happy Set Confused podcast. We are sending the good word out on HBO Max, not just the home of the Snyder Cut and Friends reunion. more importantly, the home to your delicious show hacks. Congratulations, guys. How you doing? Thank you.

Thanks for having us. Of course, of course. So I feel like the word of mouth on this one has really been building, and it must be so gratifying for you guys, because I know this has been in the works for a while, and there is an embarrassment of riches of content. We live in the age of a lot of content. Are you...

Too much content sometimes. One would say too much. You know what? I don't want to say that. I want to take it. Give me more. Just the right amount. Were you guys kind of worried when you dropped your series that this might get lost in the mix? How hardened are you by the response? I mean, you never know how things are going to play out and what people will respond to.

We knew that it was a show that we wanted to watch and we were so excited because, as you mentioned, we came up with the idea six years ago. So we've been bouncing it around for so long. And even though we've worked on other things, we've always come back to it. So it was something that we would watch, but the fact that so many people have and we've gotten so many messages from people we haven't heard from in 20 years. And, you know, it's just been, it is really gratifying. Yeah. And I mean, we tend to, because you cannot control that part of it, right? Like something comes out and like whatever it is the marketing or the moment or all that's if you can't control. We like really just trying to think about like, what is the thing we're making?

Do we really like it? We don't write or make stuff towards like, I think this will be four quadrant or whatever we can't because we have no we have no control over it so we really just like try to make things in a in a bubble and try to kind of like keep that stuff out and i think in the end when you make something that feels really personal and really like unique to what you think is very funny or whatever then then that i think generally what resonates because people can feel it yeah so you know yeah was where we worried probably but you know we try not to worry about things we can't control. Talk to me a little bit about the, like, what's the elevator pitch for this one? What was, like, kind of the shorthand that you brought into, into a room when you were pitching

this one around? Well, we started by describing this character of Debra Vance, who is this comedy diva and Las Vegas legend, and about the dark mentorship that forms with a young outcast writer that she's forced to hire. But when we were pitching the show, the thing we really leaned into was how we thought of the idea, which is that we were talking about a lot of female comedians who didn't feel like they had gotten the same due that their male counterparts had. And a lot of these like showbiz veterans and what they went through to do the work they did and just wanting to do a character study of somebody like that. Yeah, and through the lens of somebody younger who learned to appreciate her for what she's done. What did you find the reception

to be when you made the rounds with this? Was everybody kind of receptive or was it's last man standing and finally finding the right fit with HBO Max, like how easy was it to get this one going? It was a little bit in the middle. We had, if I may say, multiple offers, but not everybody, not everyone in town. You know, like it was, we had enough, um, so that we were able to, you know, do enough. We felt good. Yeah. And people seemed to respond. Yeah. And we, you know, HBO, it wasn't, it was interesting because even though we had more than one offer, because Susanna Maco said HBO Max was very, the tone of her response was very different than everybody else's response, which is, I love this, I want this, I know this, these women, I'm obsessed with

these kinds of women. I get, I'm not going to try to, like, I know where the tone is and I love the tone. And so because of that, it kind of like, you just kind of like, well, follow the energy man. And we just were like, well, you know, like she really understands it. And it's tough when you make a show. And I think if you're working with executives that are trying to kind of push it towards this direction or closer to something they have that is a hit or whatever. You just don't want to be in that position because then you're trying to find the middle ground of what you're trying to say. It's just not the way I think we want to be working with people. So knowing that we wouldn't really have to do that was, I think, why we were like,

okay, this is the home for. And I, you know, I feel that way now too. We were very. The show really rests on, you know, one, two talented women, one of which we really haven't heard of before and one who's had an esteemed career and it must fill your your guys hearts with with just endless happiness to see that you were a part of the i don't know if we call it the jean smart asance or what the short the shorthand is but finally the world is acknowledging um what this woman is capable of in all facets um talk to me about what it's been like to see like you know between watchmen and vargo in recent years and of course mayor of east town what it's been like to kind of ride this wave with Gene.

It's been amazing. And I think for us, the thing we're, like, most excited about is that this is a role that shows how funny she is and how good she's at drama. Like, the smart asante has mostly been dramas, which is, you know, great because she's incredible at it. But to be able to show her range, something that shows her range is, I think, to me, what's most exciting because it's like, yeah, she can do it all, guys. And that's rare.

Yeah, we, you know, I'm sure I'm not. in this, but we always wanted more Gene. Anytime she was in something, even from like the Brady Bunch movie, anytime she's on screen, she is a highlight. So we were really excited that she said yes and, you know, took on this leading role, which like Lucia said, really shows so much of what she can do. And there's a lot of Gene Smart.

Right. Yeah. That's the other thing. It's like she's never had, she's never been one on the podcast and one on the call sheet. Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned, you mentioned like, I mean, this show really definitely blends a bunch of, you know, difficult tones. It's tough to kind of find that sweet spot between comedy and drama and kind of serve both purposes. You know, looking at your work, is it fair to say this is like the most kind of dramatic material you guys have tackled?

And was that a little bit intimidating? Did it feel like, oh, wait, we're a little bit out of our wheelhouse here. Is this going to come as naturally, are we going to be able to, we know funny? We know we can deliver funny. Are we going to be able to sell the drama? Well, it is definitely the most grounded thing we've ever done and the most true to life, hopefully, but I would say that in a lot of our work, like a lot of the episodes that we wrote were directed for Broad City, had a lot of heart, you know, and did have more emotional moments. So it's something we've always gravitated towards. I think this, though, because we were, you know, creating and show running the show along with our co-creator Jen Statsky, it allowed us to really lean into that kind of more greatly grounded. tone that we've always loved to watch.

And so it was exciting for us to get to make it. But sure, every once in a while, you're like, maybe we should throw in a joke. But it is our instinct. You know, it is, it is when we come from and what we want to do is laugh. I mean, it is fascinating to see sort of where we're at because, you know, as you well know, like, you know, 20 years ago, this is probably a movie. This is a different format.

I mean, it's just that we're in such a different landscape now. and thank goodness for streaming and that we're getting to sort of see these stories and these character portraits that we wouldn't either wouldn't see it all or would see for 90 minutes and they would go and die and no one would ever see it.

But give me a sense of like, I mean, you guys, you worked on Rough Night a couple years ago. Did that inform this experience? You've worked a lot in TV. You do a big feature that's successful to a degree, but I don't know if like the box office is enough or whatever of their expectations,

but like did that inform kind of wanting to go back and make a show that is engineered for television as opposed to to film. Yeah, I mean, I think because we are more used to working in TV that it, and we like being able to tell stories that go into side characters and explore worlds and have larger arcs that give you time to really attach to the characters and root for them

and be mad at them and all that. It's hard to do that. in a hundred minutes, you know. And so for us, I think, like you were saying, you know, the formats are changing, streaming is happening. And I think for our tendency as storytellers, it really is trending in the right direction. I think we like being able to spend more time with characters. And, and so for us, yeah, I mean, I think it's been a blessing for being able to tell stories that maybe otherwise wouldn't have been able to be told and tell them in different ways. And having the space and time to do that has been, it's great. Because

it's like not everything hinges on this one set piece or this one scene. And like, that is a lot of pressure for a, for a movie, like, especially now, especially if you're like, if you got them in the theater, you better hold him. You know, what, who's falling next or whatever? Yeah. And talk to me a little bit about just like the production of this because, okay, so it takes a few years to get this off the ground and you finally get, I mean, like, looking at the time when it's kind of crazy.

I feel like you were greenlit right before the shit hit the fan, basically. You made this all, you produced this all in the year that was 2020. You were all, I mean, also, I mean, it should be noted for those I don't know. Gene was significant, really sad, untimely loss in her family in the middle of this production. This is a, it's tough to make a show, period. And you were operating in unusual circumstances. Did it affect the final product significantly? Did it feel like it couldn't be as joyous in experience as hope as you wanted it to

give me a sense. Well, yeah, we, like you said, wrote, shot, edited, and, you know, made the entire thing in the pandemic. I think in some ways it was, of course, like you said, it's really challenging to make anything. And to do that with two masks and a shield is really difficult. Especially season one. But I will say, I think from the writer's room, and we had some incredible writers to the production itself. I do think people were happy to be together and to be doing something. And I feel really lucky that a lot of people

from our cast to our crew to our writers really were passionate about the project and the story. Everybody had a touch point and was invested in it. So in a way, it was kind of nice to be together and to have this little nomadic family to do it. But as you say, it was like whack-a-mole because someone, there's a little, there's a, there's a COVID scare and we want to shut down to be safe.

Or as you say, you know, Jean's husband passed away. There were so many things that it did feel like, wow, this is a real, a wild ride for sure. But we all survived it together, you know. We did, we were like, we should make hats. We survived the cold pandemic and made hacks. And I got a TV show and a hat out of it at least. What have been the responses that have resonated with you? I mean, we talked about the smartest sense, if we want to call it that.

But beyond that, now we're in this fun kind of zone where, like, it must, this is the goal. Like, where not only are people watching it, you've been renewed for season two, but you're getting like, kind of like the think pieces. You're getting people to really engage with this in a significant way. What's been the most rewarding, specific or general response you've seen to the show? For me, personally, it's really been people that I, like, show creators or writers or directors or actors who we really, really respect who have been like, hey, I'm loving it and I'm watching and I'm feeling it. I think for me, it just like, you know, especially people who also do the thing and they know how hard it is. And that's been really awesome. And in addition, the other thing that I think

has been really cool is especially the female comedians and older female comedians who've reached out who've been like, hell yeah, man, episode 8, 1.6 million. Damn, that felt good or whatever. or, you know, like, and also the women who maybe didn't make it as, as comedians because they were kind of pushed out for, for whatever reason along the way. I think it's, those people are reaching out. And I think that that feels really good because it is kind of a love letter to all those women difficult or not that, you know, have been through the shit and did or didn't come out the other side, but feel like we are speaking on their behalf. That feels pretty awesome. Yeah. And I think the other thing that's nice is we have a lot of friends who are like, I love the show and my mom loves

the show. And it's really cool that people are watching with their parents or, you know, it's such a, we were like when we were making this, even though it really appealed to us, like we said in the beginning, we weren't sure. It's a show about a 69-year-old woman. But I think getting to see a 69-year-old woman be winning and fun and outspoken and sexy and sexual and all of that, people are really responding both young and old, which is really cool. Actually, you know what? Maybe it is four quadrant. Hey, it's the mandolian of HBO Max. You did it, guys.

You crap the code. So I mentioned the good news that we're going to get more of this, which is awesome. And I know you guys had had some ideas for where this would go. So it's easy. Now you just need to like, you know, control P and you're ready, right? It reads itself. That's exactly right. Yeah, right.

Yeah, that's how it works. Does it feel like you're starting from scratch or do you feel like you've got a good head start on sort of where season two goes? we have i think some idea i mean if you've seen the finale and i don't know are this is this post spoilers we're trying to keep it broad for everybody for those that don't you know in the finale you kind get an idea of where the season is going to go yeah um so that i think is exciting because it gives us a direction but i think in terms of you know there's so many characters that we introduce in the first season and we don't really want to leave them aside and astray so figuring out i think right now

like how much are we concentrating on just Deborah and Eva? How much are we kind of bringing the rest of the cast back into it? Are there new people? Like that mixture and that recipe, I think, is still being tested. How's that for vague as hell? No, it's good. These are good problems to have. These are good challenges. You want to be in this position. Yes. Well, congratulations. I mean, you know, this is something that, I mean, it was definitely on my alley when I heard about this project, but it is hardening to see that it's kind of going broader and kind of like both the Cool kids, I feel like we're hip to this one from the start, but now I feel like it's broadening out and people are really getting a sense that there's a lot in there for a lot of

different audiences. So I'm happy to help spread the good word of hacks. Congratulations on a great first season under insane circumstances. And I'll see you on season two, I guess, in like a month when you're finished. It's going to be easy. Yes. We're going to hurry up. We'll be back. We'll see you in nine to 14 months. Perfect. It's a date. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer and director. You might know me from the league, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old.

Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistoms. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look.

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