Happy Sad Confused - Elisabeth Moss, Vol. II

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

Elisabeth Moss has earned all her lofty titles: Emmy award winner, the queen of peak TV, and consummate actor. Just look at her resume on television, from THE WEST WING and MAD MEN to TOP OF THE LAKE and THE HANDMAID'S TALE. She joins Josh in this special live taping in New York to chat about all of it AND get a special surprise visit from Bradley Whitford! Come see Josh tape LIVE Happy Sad Confused conversations in New York City! September 29th with Mila Kunis! Tickets are available here! October 25th with Ralph Macchio! Tickets are available here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Elizabeth Moss returns for a live taping in New York City at the 92 NY. Hey guys, Josh Harowitz here with another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. And yes, we've got a returning guest,

and not only that, she is a friend of the show. She's a listener to the show. Hello, Elizabeth Moss. the most important listener listening today. I have to be my best behavior because she is very likely listening to this. Yes, Elizabeth Moss is back on the show just a few months after her first appearance on Happy, Say I Confused, but this time it was all the more special because we got to do it live and in person at the 92 NY.

Lizzie is a New Yorker like myself, so it was fun to see the folks up close and personal and talk about the new season, the fifth season. of the Handmaid's Tale, which is excellent, by the way, guys. The reviews are in. Everybody's agreeing. It's fantastic, as it always is, but it's getting particularly great reviews this year. I encourage you to catch up with it. If you haven't already, check it out.

You know, an amazing ensemble, and this led by Elizabeth Moss, who is also a key creative behind the scenes as a director and a producer on the show, steering the ship, helping to steer the ship, as it heads towards the end. one more season of The Handmaid's Tale coming up next year. So this is a great chat about the show, about its genesis, her participation in it, and a great many other things, including, you know, our mutual film tastes that very much intersect. I love talking film and TV with Elizabeth Moss. I love giving her crap about her strange dietary habits, courtesy of Intel. from Bradley Whitford, who, yes, does make a special cameo of a sort on this episode.

So this is a great one. It's a live episode. In New York, you'll feel the energy. There will be some visual references, I suppose, that maybe won't go over as well in audio form, but you'll roll with it. You're a professional. For instance, we talk about the iconic image of Peggy from the last season of Mad Men. And we show some photos of some tattoos of Peggy.

I'm helping you out because you're going to be confused otherwise. What else do we show? We show an iconic image of Elizabeth in Handmaid's Tale garb from this season, as well as a haunting image from us with her, I think it's like a blood splattered, grinning face from the great Jordan Peele film that she appeared in. So there you go. Those are your visual aids for today's conversation. Okay. Besides the main event, I want to mention some more upcoming events in New York City because it's a busy time, lots of exciting stuff that you guys have the opportunity to catch up with if you are so inclined. New York Comic-Con. I'm hosting two panels now. Saturday, I believe it's at 11 a.m. I'm going to be hosting, moderating the panel for the new Jonathan Nolan Lisa Joyce series, which I'm very excited about, called The Peripheral, stars two of my favorite.

Jack Rainer and Chloe Grace Moretz. Check it out, 11 a.m. I believe, on Saturday at Javitz. And then on Sunday, and I think I have this right, 4 p.m. is the panel for Weird, the Al-Yankovic story. Yes, the bizarre, crazy, very funny biopic of Weird Al. Daniel Radcliffe will be there. Evan Rachel Wood will be there. It's going to be a lot of fun.

Definitely check that out if you are able. Later on in the month, in October, October 25th, at Symphony Space. I'll be talking to Ralph Machio about his new book, and we're about to announce a really big one. I think it's October 26th over at 92 NY. I can't quite say the name yet, but it's one you're going to want to get tickets for soon. So stay tuned. Follow me on social media, Joshua Horowitz. If you want the early access, if you want the discount codes, subscribe to the Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, Got that? Patreon.com slash happy say I confused. That's where the early announcements go. All the early access goes. All the discounts, discount codes go. Yeah, that's about it. Last plug, I guess, just to mention the YouTube channel is going strong. Go over to give us a like, give us a subscription to YouTube.com slash Josh Horowitz. Tons of great stuff in there. The Matt Smith conversation we put up last week was our most successful yet. So thank you.

Thank you for that. All right, let's get to it, because this is a long one, as all these 92 NY events are, in a good way. It's very entertaining. I know you're going to enjoy it. Check out the new season of Handmaid's Tale on Hulu, and enjoy this conversation with me and Elizabeth Moss. And that includes you, Lizzie, if you're listening. Enjoy listening to yourself. Thank you guys so much for coming out tonight.

Welcome to another happy, sad, confused live, though this is not just another. This is, we've got like the queen of peak TV here tonight, guys. We got Elizabeth Moss in the house. Yeah. Not that I have to rattle off her credits, but we're here anyway. Let's do it. Let's make her feel good. The West Wing, Mad Men, Top of the Lake, Shining Girls, and of course her baby,

The Handmaid's Tale now in its fifth season. Despite the dramatic work I just described, she's one of the most delightful human beings on the planet. This is going to be a great conversation. It's always a good sign, by the way. when a guest has their own Wikipedia entry for their awards, they've won. Like there's a separate page for the awards this woman has won.

We're gonna talk all about her amazing career and this new season of Handmaid's Tale. Let's get right to it. Let's bring her out, the one and only, Elizabeth Moss. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hi.

Wow. They're so nice. Thank you. So nice. Usually it's just silence when the guest comes out. That's impressive. We're off to a good start. Yeah, it's a low bar, but no, no, no.

So thrilled to have you here. Guys, you know, this is, she's like a legit New Yorker. This is like a tried and true New Yorker for some time now, right? Yeah. Yeah. I crossed the park to get here. I've lived here for over 20 years. years. So a lot of young actors defect to L.A. to go to L.A. to make it big. As I understand it,

you went the other way. What's wrong with you? Why did you come here to our crazy city? It kind of worked out. It did work out. That's fair. Yeah, I did the other way. When I was 19, I moved here to do a play at the Atlantic Theater Company. And yeah, most people at that age or anywhere around there, they go to L.A. and start doing pilots. And I went the other way and did my first pilot, the only pilot I've ever done was Mad Men. And I got the part here. So it worked out because if I wasn't here, I don't know if I would have gotten it. Were there, so in the period before Mad Men here, you said you did a play here. Like was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, how, how many offs before Broadway were

you doing? Exactly. I was, I mean, it was so, yeah, no, I was not constantly working. It was definitely a period of very much off and on, you know, kind of some indie films. I was still reoccurring on the West Wing, but I wasn't on it as much, so I would do like once a year. It was a period of like, you know, calling the SAG 800 residuals number and seeing when I had like a check coming in so that I could pay anything. And, but it was also kind of an amazing time, and I was really lucky to be able to do it in a lot of ways. Was there like a long-term plan at that point if I talked to you before Madman came around, like what were you hoping the next five, ten years of your life would look like? I didn't have a plan. I've never really had a

plan, honestly, because my career's gone in so many different directions. And because I was supposed to, I was a dancer, I was doing ballet for so long, so I kind of thought that's what I was going to do. And then I pivoted to only acting. So I just never had a plan. And Madman taught me to never had a plan because I never would have anticipated, oh, I'm going to be on a show about advertising in the 60s on a network called AMC like that's not that doesn't do shows

no basically exactly that's going to be like its first TV show so that was a big lesson in not making a plan so speaking of not making plans we're going to jump around a bit because that's how my brain works let's get to Handmaid's Tale and then we'll backtrack okay cool like where

okay so where were you when Handmaid's Tale was coming around were you actively looking for a ongoing gig or were you It sounds like no. No, no. So I was shooting the second season of Top of Lake in Sydney, and when that came my way. And I had only finished Madman like a year before or something like that.

So I definitely wasn't thinking, and I had been on that for nine years. Seven seasons, but nine years because there was a writer's strike, and we had a really long hiatus at one point for, I don't know why. And anyway, so it was nine years of my life, 23 to 32. Very formative years as well. Anyway, so I was like, I'm not going to do another show for a while. I'm going to take my time and I'm going to have all this time to do other things. And then this script came and it was so good. And I was like, how are they going to do The Handmaid's Tale?

That's crazy. And then the first script was amazing and then the second script was amazing. And I was like, I don't think I cannot do this. Actually, the truth is that I was thinking about not doing it. And then they told me an actor that they were thinking about going to next. Nothing gets an actor more interested with. You're going to them? Yep.

Totally. And it was an actor that I like. Oh, my God. Actors that I like, and I was like, hell no. I was like, no way, is she getting the chance to do this? And so that's what actually ultimately pushed me to say yes. Competition. Remark, hey, whatever works. So history then gets a little bit interesting because you're shooting, what, fourth or fifth episode of the first season.

And I don't know if you guys are aware, but there was a pretty pivotal election in 2016. that maybe dovetails a little bit with some of the themes that we're talking about in Handmaid's Tale. So when that happens, does that change the whole trajectory of, I mean, it doesn't change the story. The story is the story, but since then it must have changed so much about how you're approaching the themes of the show. Yeah, shit definitely got real. Like, we definitely were making the show that was this dystopian future that had, you know, a lot of, reality to go on. I mean, the book that Margaret wrote in 1985 was based on history. Right. You know, and history tends to repeat itself. So, you know, we knew that there was

relevancy there, but then, yes, we were shooting episode four, I think, in 2016 and when the election happened. And it was definitely like we showed up the next day. And I had a scene that I was doing with Joseph Fines, plays Commander Waterford. And I remember it just being kind heavy like it was just kind of there was a sense of oh wow this is now we're we feel like we're doing something different there must also be and I think it's to your guys credit that you haven't it hasn't been heavy-handed in the way you've kind of dealt with like you could there are different ways to approach this material that kind of lean into what's happening in our world yeah so that must be a constant conversation I would take it I would I would it's a it's a conversation only in

the sense of not doing that like that's the thing is All the episodes were written in season one when the election happened. So everything, we're not a ripped from the headlines show. This isn't Law and Order, respect, but it's New York. I've been on three Law and Order. Half of these people have been in a Law and Order episode. Yeah, yeah, I've been on, yeah, exactly, exactly. I've been on three to maybe four different Law and Order, so ultimate respect.

But that's just not what we do. So it's just, we're trying to tell a story that is three. the lens of this one woman and she has one background, she has one journey, she has one life experience, and we do that and we try to do that with the other characters as well. If we try to take on the responsibility of telling, you know, a grander sort of story that reflects the absolute current political climate, I don't think that's who we are. It just happens to be that this world keeps following what the show has done,

which is not also anything that we take any pleasure or joy in. Do you think the experience of making... Do you think the experience of making the show has changed you as a activist, a feminist, the woman just engaging with the world? Yeah, I do. But I also think that we as women changed,

there was a shift around the time, that we started making the show that I felt just as a woman and as a citizen there was a sort of shift happening in feminism and then there was the Me Too movement and it just

so I don't know if it was because of the show necessarily or because that's just what was happening as a woman and woman of my age it just it all kind of coincided in this thing where I feel like women embraced because they

had to being feminists. And all of us, you know, when I was in my early 20s, when I first moved to New York, it wasn't like that. You just assumed everybody was a feminist or you were, you weren't or whatever. It wasn't like a big deal. Everything was fine. We were over versus weight. It was totally good. Like, we were all, everything was great.

And then it became like, oh, wait, we actually have to say something, and we have to actually do something, and we have to vote, and we have to defend, and we have to resist. Anyways, I could go on it. Another important aspect of the show, I'm just as like, as you know, I'm like a big old geek about film and TV is just, this is kind of a cliche to say, but it's true. It's a very cinematic show. It's a very deliberate and that, I mean that in a positive way, deliberately thought out well-directed shows from some stellar filmmakers that I know you've learned from and now that you are one of. You've directed a bunch of episodes. Was that always baked in from the start? Was that part of the appeal that like you guys could kind of level up the, um, the approach from a cinematic. Very much so. That came from our first director

who did the first three episodes, Reed Murano, and our first cinematographer, Colin Ockinson. And everything we've sort of done came from them setting up the way that they wanted to see this world. And the way that they approached it

was an incredibly cinematic way, very heavy on the visuals and very stylistic. And I have to give them so much credit for setting that up. They really did set up what the show is and has enabled us to kind of can continue that.

It must also empower you as a director now because often in TV excuse me, directors that come in to a show, it's kind of like almost like paint by numbers sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it feels like on a show like this you have license, yes, there's that template that has been established by Reed

and the company, but like you can go for it. You can take some big swings. Totally. Our show's a little different from other television. They've done a fair amount of other television. You know, normally it's not a director director's medium. People don't like, directors don't love going and doing television a lot because they don't have a lot of say. And, you know, once they hand in your episode, it's gone and the producers work on it and it changes. Our show's a little different. I mean, we still do that. We still have a normal system. But our directors have so much say and our cinematographers have so much say that that is who we rely on. That team of cinematographer and the director and the production designer, and locations, that's our team. That is not to say that the writing obviously isn't important.

Of course it is, it's where it all begins. We don't have anything if we don't have the great writing that we have, but we give license to our directors in a way that I've never seen. To the point of when directors come to the show, we have to have this conversation with them. Like we have to sit them down and say, you are going to be allowed to do things here

and you need to do them or people will be mad at you. Right. Like, you have to have ideas, you have to come to the table, you have to be visionary, or the only thing we can be mad at you for is if you don't do that. Right. And that's not normal in television. It's normally, yeah, like a bit of a clock in, clock out kind of thing. You've directed in this season the first two episodes that I think I've aired by now.

The second episode, is it a coincidence that dance is so heavily involved considering your background? I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, they weren't like, we're going to do a ballet thing, but they know that I have a dance history, and I think there was definitely a big nod to that. Is it just me? I feel like there's a disproportionate amount

of iconic Elizabeth Moss faces in television and film history. So like, let's look at this image that we just saw. Oh, no. If we could go to this, yeah, okay. Classic. Classic. It is classic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, do you remember what you're thinking there? Like what's... Honestly, I was probably thinking we had done this crane move many times and we were losing the light and the crane had to duplicate we shot the Serena site first because we shot the funeral first and we were doing

because we're nerds. We were doing obviously the same lens. We were also doing the same exact pace and had to be the same exact amount like of time that like, you know, stupid movie shit. And so I was thinking oh my God I hope we get

this because we're losing the light and we have to we have to stop so the frustration is real it's good it's not much action oh my god this is like eight takes and we have to go um so this gives me a segue to another film and another image that haunts me for the last few years can we look at this image from from us I love it no I mean I have no problem with it's totally fine that's you every day yeah um talk to me about because I I love that movie. We're talking about Jordan backstage. And this character, what you were able to do with this,

this must have been so much fun. It was. So what does it look like in your home in the weeks prior when you're practicing this character? Like, are you? I didn't practice it, honestly. I talked to Jordan about it. And we talked about Marilyn Monroe,

and we talked about this woman who thinks that she's that kind of person, and who just thinks that she's so beautiful. and looks in the mirror and is putting on her lipstick and is just like just having the most incredible time because she's the most beautiful woman on earth, you know, in a movie star, but she looks like that. And that was kind of it.

It was, I was like, I know what that is, I get that. And he's so, he's obviously such a genius, but he's also very good with actors, and he's very supportive, and so he just lets you kind of play and do things and try things. There's nothing, you can never do any wrong. And he allows you to do really weird stuff like this,

and you have a lot of fun doing it. We can take that off the screen for fear of disturbing deal I didn't stress this time. Yeah, okay, so in a good way. Yeah, I don't ever want to see that again. So back to Hamid's for a second. The good news is there is another season after this season. Somewhat bittersweet news is it's last season.

Back to the good news, it's on your own terms. It's an emotional role. Guys, we're all over the place here. But are you all ready, because I know if you completed season five, like do you know what you want to contain in the final season, how it's going to wrap up by now or no? I know the ending for June, character-wise. That's something I've known for a while,

but I don't know a lot of other stuff. And it's going to be tough because there's so many great characters and there's so many things that I feel like we haven't done yet and people's backstories and flashbacks we haven't done yet that I would love to do. And it's going to be tough to fit it all in. But luckily, that's not my job. Are you good at, you've had to do this a few times,

say goodbye to very pivotal points in your career. Is it hard to walk away from something like Mad Men and now this? It is, but I always hate when actors talk about that. And they set, you know what I mean? When actors are like, I was so upset. So sad. And they're like, it's like a family. And we, you know, and you're leaving your family.

It's not like you're leaving your fucking family. You know? It's not. You're like a highly paid, like it's elective. Like your job is ending. Like this is not the same thing. Right. So in reality, I'll tell you that like, yes, it is hard and it is sad.

But it's, it's also something that like I feel like you sound like such an asshole when you talk about. One of them. I get it. One of the joys I would think that you'll have to leave behind is you've been able to boss around Bradley Whitford. Yes. Who you obviously go way back with. Yes.

20-something years. So that must be just a fascinating thing. You were a different human being in your life when you first met him, and now you're his boss. So I was 17 and he was 40. He was my age when he first started working together. And I just thought he was like, well, I thought he was really cute. I've never told him this, but I totally had a crush on him.

And he was also, like, brilliant. Everyone was brilliant. There was Allison Janney and, like, Martin Sheen, and everyone was amazing. And they were all just, like, so much better and more amazing than I was. And now, yes, I'm his boss. It's great. But truthfully, I mean, sincerely, we've also, we've talked about this, Brad and I. It's a really cool thing.

you don't have that where you get to kind of reconnect with somebody after so many years. And him and I have become really, really close. And he's very much like an older brother to me. And he's been really supportive. And I love him deeply. I reached out to previous Happy Second Fused guest, Bradley Wittford. Settle in. He had a lot to say.

You ready? I hope it was nice. Otherwise, I'm going to look at fire. No, it's very nice. Hopefully I have this right in the lineup. Let's go to the clip of Bradley Woodford. What? Oh, no.

Hey, Brad Whitford here. What's left of Brad Whitford? I'm not sure what's going on tonight. I think Elizabeth is being interviewed, and while she's in a familiar place as the center of attention, I just want everyone to know who showed up to witness this and to give her. that attention that this will do absolutely nothing to fill the

god-sized whole in her soul. Obviously, I'm joking. I have never had a better creative experience working with anyone in my life than I've had with Elizabeth Moss. I find her

inspiring, I'm proud of her and she's really affirmed for me in a very profound way that the best way to work is to take the work seriously but not to take yourself seriously doing the work that being kind to everyone will always produce the best results in any creative situation that's a light approach no matter what the material will always get you to a deeper place

I have never seen anybody in all of my time and show business and it's been a long time I've never seen anybody I am not exaggerating nobody anywhere work as hard

as relentlessly as Elizabeth does on this show she cares for this show like a fierce mother and make no mistake about it the handmade

is running the operation as the brains behind this whole thing. So there could not be a better boss on the planet. And you don't have to take it from me, you can take it from anybody on our cast or on our crew, regardless of their position. The tone is set by Elizabeth. It's a tone of collaboration and respect and kindness and joy. and in the name of God

not taking acting too seriously which I really appreciate the only thing I really would ask Elizabeth is about her habit of eating large grains

of salt as if she's in some sort of ritual while she direct she directs. I don't understand it. She claims there is some nutritional need to

eat blocks of salt. But I would ask her about that. I love you, Elizabeth, and it's totally not weird. Oh. That's so great.

Oh, my God. Wow. God, this is really, that was really nice. That was very nice, he's a fan. Sort of moved. Would you like to respond? There's a lot to unpack there. There's a lot to unpack there.

That's what we say to each other, I love you, and it's totally not weird. Okay, so the salt thing, now, let's start with the salt. Let's get into that. See what's going on with that. So I, this is so boring and done. I talk about my medical history. So I get really dehydrated easily, and I get headaches.

easily. And one of the things is because I get dehydrated, like salt, like literally salt, not potassium as much, but salt. And this is something that's been discovered. And so I have a thing where, and he thinks it's psychotic, where I carry like a little container of salt, like pink Himalayan salt, like the really rocky kind. And I will just pull it out of my purse and start eating it. And he sees me doing this one day. He's like, what is he? He's a wrong with you? And I explained what I just explained, but he apparently still cannot, he cannot get over it. I see both sides of the issue. I'm on both sides. Yeah, I'm with you, but I'm also with him. I know, it's weird. I don't think it's not weird, but I do, it's just something my body needs.

Anyway, it's not. Okay. More importantly, among the other things he said in there, that does strike me, it sounds like it's a very important ethos, and it's probably preserves your sanity, that, like, you, correct me if I'm wrong. You don't feel like you have to suffer for your You can enjoy the process, and you found whether, like, I don't know, did you find a path towards that, or was that always something that you knew? Well, what's ironic about what Brad is saying, though, is that I learned that from him, and I learned that from that cast on the West Wing. I was 17 when I started, and it was the first time working with a group like that, because I didn't go to acting school, and I didn't do a lot of theater or anything. And I learned how to approach work and set life and acting from those guys. And predominantly from Brad, one of the reasons why he's such a generous human is because

I don't even know if he recognizes when he says that, that I learned that from him. And I bring that to set every day because he brought it to set every day. And he always made everybody laugh and always was having a good time. but he took the work seriously. It was Aaron Sorkin. You still had to know your lines. You know what I mean? And he's brilliant on the show.

They all were brilliant. So I learned that from working with those guys, that, yes, you take the work seriously. It's the most important thing to me, my work. I've said that before. It's my first love. But it's not everything to everyone else. So you have to know that. Right.

You know, don't take yourself seriously. You're not that, you know, interesting. So, okay, we've talked a bit about West Wing and Handmaids. We haven't talked too much about Mad Men, and we've talked about some of these iconic images. And I do want to show another one that became an iconic image. And it almost feels like sometimes iconic images happen by happenstance. This one feels like there was a thought. This is going to be a special image.

This is like towards the end of the... Yeah, here we go. This is towards the end of the run, of course. Okay, so... Yes, yes. Not yet, question. Well, my, well, let's, I want to show the next slide to show you how iconic it is.

Have you seen these? There are series, let's go to the next one. There are series of tattoos of this image. Wow. Another one and another one. Oh, my God, what is? Oh, it's the octopus. Yeah, I think that's the last one, yeah.

So we can go back to the normal image. So, okay, so that's just a taste of the impact of that, which is not the usual thing. It's crazy. I mean, it's very flattering, cool, but it's, wow. So was it composed that way? Like, this should register? No. No, that's the craziest thing, is that, I mean, how can you anticipate that?

You can't anticipate that that's going to be a moment. Right. And we never ever thought that, we thought character-wise it was interesting and cool, but we never ever thought it was going to become the meme or gif or whatever it is. Right. We never thought that it was going to become something inspirational or any sort of moment. It was a cool, fun moment for us. You know, like, the costume wasn't picked with any extra care than usual.

I remember that mainly I was thinking about the fact that it was hard to hold the box, and I kept making them make the box lighter, because they like to make them real, and you're like, I'm good, I can act it. Like, you can make them, it's fine. I'll just pretend, it's real. And the glasses, and then the cigarette, which is sort of hanging, and that's actually difficult. So I was trying to, like, walk and look cool and, like, look at the guys.

and like, I just, it wasn't as cool as it ended up becoming. A lot of actors I know like to have, like, business to do in a scene? Are you like that? Do you like to, like, have something to, no, you don't? No, we don't like business. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I don't like business. I prefer to be still.

I prefer, like, to not have to do. And I get immediately, like, oh, my God, what is this? I have to hold this now. I'm the person who, like, never carries a bag. Like, none of my, I don't like carrying bags as characters. Like, you may have noticed there's not a lot of bags. Like, I don't like it. Now I'm going to go back to your film.

She's never doing anything. June never has a purse. June never has a purse. Where's her stuff? She doesn't have any stuff. Because Lizzie doesn't like carrying shit. It's amazing. Yeah.

So is there a character or scene that you would get tattooed on your body if push came to shove? No. Absolutely not. I don't have any tattoos and it's partially because I'm not just not flaws. The anti-tattoo lobby is here tonight. Makes sense though. 92 Y. Yeah, I guess.

But no, I just never been able to commit to anything for that long. Right. Would you? No. No. It's too late for us anyway. Yeah, it is. Way too late.

Downton Abbey, you're not going to get, you're a big fan. You're not going to get Maggie Smith tattoo on your back? Well, now that you mention it. That's actually the worst idea. No. No, I would not. No. No.

That's a nightmare to me. To wake up with a tattoo would be a nightmare to me. Okay, okay. So is there a typical Elizabeth Moss role that gets offered to you? Like, do you see a constant, what do you see? Yeah. There's definitely a through line that is, it's kind of a combination of things, but the main through line is somebody who is somehow having trouble with their baby.

Very specific, you've got that niche. Yeah, you got it. It's either that I've lost it. Right. like, literally has been kidnapped, the baby. Or having trouble, like, Peggy had the baby, then gave it away. Right. And then top of the lake, there was a baby thing there.

Handmaid's tail, obviously. So there's definitely, that's the thing that now, I've never avoided anything in my career. I've never been planning. I've never been like that. That's the thing that now, for the first time, I'm like, maybe we don't do the thing where I lost the kid. Right.

Right. Directive to Team Moss, no baby loss. Yeah. Yeah. I just keep losing them everywhere. Are there, like, specific turnoffs in a script? Like, if you, like, I guess not carrying bags and not losing babies now, I guess I've know the answer to that question.

Like, when you open a script, is there a kind of thing that, or the flip side, that excites you? I think, for me, I'm always looking for something I've never seen. You know, that's kind of how I've chosen anything I've ever done. It's just I don't feel like I've seen it. And I feel like it's something I would want to watch. That's all I think you can do. You can't predict the future and predict what everyone in the world is going to like.

But if it's something that I feel like hasn't been made, hasn't been done in this way, and it's also something that I would watch if I saw it, then I'm like, that's all I can do. Right. You know. Do you take, I mean, I was introducing you, and it wasn't, being facetious at all, like you, people prop you up as this kind of, like, queen of peak TV now. Like, I mean, you look at the resume, it's kind of insane. Do you, do you, you must take some pride in the collection of different kind of series that you've

done that have all seemingly clicked, which, as you know, is not the norm. No, it's not. And it's weird. I do take pride in it, for sure. I do take pride in it. It also seems crazy to me. Like when you lists them, it's crazy. to me. I'm like, wow, that's right. I guess there are all of those shows. Because I never anticipated that, and it goes quite slowly when you're making them. So you don't, you know, you're not thinking about it at the time. But it's, I'm proud of it. I love television. I love movies, too, of course. But you can, from what you listed, like I've made a lot of TV. And I love the format. I love living with a character for years. I love getting to revisit a character for a second season. You know, it. And, you know, it's, and I'm crazy. I'm crazy. I love the format. I love. I love living with a character for a character for a second season. You know, you know, you know, it. I love it. I

It's something I really like and I'm really liking it as a producer and director now. And so I am proud of it. We haven't discussed Top of the Lake, which I know is important because, yeah, amazing. Which in our past conversations, you've mentioned Jane Campion, and that is not unique to any actor that works with Jane Campion. So what's the secret sauce? What is the Jane Campion methodology that makes actors in love with her process? She adapts herself, at least I feel in my opinion, having observed her. She adapts herself to the actor in front of her.

And so she can work with an actor who's never done a job, never done an acting job before, and can get a good performance out of them. And I've seen it happen. And she can work with Nicole Kidman or Holly Hunter and give them what they need, which are very different things and different things than I need. And that's something that I think is highly unusual.

Directors sometimes can come in and they are being themselves and what they need to be in order to get the job done, which is fine. and sometimes they're very good at doing it like that. I think when it becomes an actor's director, it's because what that means is they are adapting themselves for the specificity of the actor in front of them. And that's what Jane does,

and I think that's one of the many reasons why she's so brilliant. You've directed a lot recently. You also directed a bunch of Shining Girls and this. What are the directing aspirations? I mean, is there a feature you want to direct? Do you have specific ideas? Yeah, there are. Yeah. I do have some ideas. Yeah. Yeah. Are there, I guess you want to play close to the best, which is fine. But like, what are the kind of projects that you are that you want to pursue in that realm? I personally love genre stuff. Like, I love sci-fi. I love horror. I don't think I would make necessarily something that was necessarily similar to handmaids or anything. like that. I like fun at the movies and I love entertainment. I don't think that doesn't mean

you can't have grounded, you know, or complex story, but, or characters, but I like genre stuff. Yeah. So that's kind of where I'm, there's a couple things that I'm going back and forth between and developing and that are definitely genre. Well, and as, again, I think we've talked about this before, through genre, you can also talk about some really cool stuff. And like, we haven't talked about invisible man, which, was a film about gaslighting as much as it was a really excellent genre exercise. Exactly. And I like being kind of somewhat stylistic, I think, visually as well. And I think that lends itself to that. Like, I'm not going to go and make a movie in a cabin with, like, you know, five women.

Like, it's just not who I am. Do you mean? Like, I just don't. It sells itself. I mean, it sounds like a blockbuster. Yeah, coming soon. It's just not, I think, where I sit. I like to do things that are a little. bit more fun. Would you, okay, a couple random things. Would you prefer the first day of production or the last day of production? Oh, this isn't, this is a good question.

The first or the last? The last, yeah, the last because generally you have a sense of, or you should, have a sense of accomplishment. And it's over, which sometimes can be nice. First day, you know the old thing, like the first day, you know, you should just reshoot it. Like, you should never shoot it.

anything important on the first day and it's true it's true everyone's weird and rusty and everyone's like it's yeah it's a weird situation have you ever been fired cut out oh god these are real hard hitting I waited till near the end I know we got me all relaxed um no I don't think so I don't think I've ever been cut out of anything that I know of I remember I definitely haven't been fired I would remember that I think right I know I don't think I'm fired is a harsh way recast that's a difference you know it happens no I don't think luckily I don't think I have yeah I just haven't been hired right a lot fired by omission yeah what what do you think the best professional decision you've ever made is like in retrospect is it is it deciding on a

specific job is it moving to New York at a certain time like with hindsight what do you think? I think moving to New York. Yeah. I do. Because I, yeah, New York. That's called knowing your audience, Josh. No, I think moving to New York because I think it got me out of the L.A. thing. It got me out of the different kind of competition that I don't think would have been good for me. I wasn't somebody who was like blonde and bubbly and like going out to get like the certain kinds of things and shows. I wasn't that person. I was always weird and did very dramatic acting and, you know, I was better in New York. And it gave me a chance to do small films. It gave me a chance to do a bit of theater. It gave me a chance to kind of get better,

I think, before anyone was really watching. And I don't know if I would have gotten Mad Men because they cast it, I think, pretty much out in New York. We shot the pilot in New York. And that changed my life. And where does theater fit in your psyche? I miss it so much. I've been wanting to, since I've been back in New York, finally see some stuff. And I just, it's hard to do theater when you're doing a show because of the time commitment. The show takes, especially now with them producing and directing, the show basically takes 9, 10, 11 months to make a season. And theater takes, you know, six months at least. So it's hard

to fit it in. So I'm hoping to find something to do after the final season. Are there, because again, we talk a lot about movies. I can tell you. Love movie and T. movies and TV. Who are the actors that you put on a pedestal? Who are the ones that like you make a point of like, I have to be, see them as soon as the movie comes out? Olivia Coleman. I mean, yeah. She didn't just do anything as far as I'm concerned. The usual suspects, you know. Not the cast of the usual suspects. Not the cast of the usual suspects. Very clearly not the cast of the usual suspects. You know,

Kate Blanchett and Marianne Cotillard and, oh, that There's a person. Oh, don't want. All good. Yeah, yeah. Okay. It's alarming. We don't like her answer.

Leave. I don't go. It's fine. It was going well. Merrill Streep. But I also love, like, there's so many, like, Michael Stoolbarg, David Thulis was just talking about. I love so much.

I mean, there's so many, I mean, I love actors. I really love actors. Okay, so here are the tough questions, not mine. This is the audience, so don't blame me. You ready? Okay. Here we go. This is a tough one.

June has been through trauma after trauma. What is it like for you to follow this trauma trajectory? Have you studied the effects of trauma to play the role? The honest answer is no. I have very, first of all, I'm not very good at preparing as an actor. I don't think I'm best when I'm. prepare too much, which is something I've learned over 30-something years. I have been acting for 30-something years, so I have practiced a lot. That's kind of been my preparation. So no, in the

sense that I, the writers have, so that's the thing that is important to say is the writers have actually done a lot of research and work on this. So when they write something, it's in the script for me already, which is doing half the work for me there. But I just, I like, I'm very instinctive and I like to follow what I think the character's journey is. So, yeah, but I'm not good at researching anything. So it's not even, it's not exclusive to trauma. Got it. Well, half of it is also the actors you're playing with.

Like, they're going to bring everything to the table and make it feel alive. Yes. I'm doing a new project with Steven Knight called The Bail for FX. And I was just on the Zoom with him the other day. And I was like, I have no backstory questions. Like, I don't, I'm not good at that. Like, I'm not good. I don't care where the character came from.

I don't care what's fucking sign they were. Like, it just, it doesn't help me. It helps a lot of people. It doesn't help me. Are you close with Margaret Atwood? I mean, I wouldn't say, like, close. Is she a resource? Is she someone that is useful to?

She has been. She's been incredibly supportive mainly, which has been amazing. She's let us do kind of what we want to do, but at the same time she reads all the scripts. and if she does have anything, she offers it. She's been sort of hands off and hands on in the perfect way. But the other day, there was an email chain, and I popped up Margaret Atwood in my email,

and I was like, that's cool. Along those lines, someone asks, are there plans to incorporate the book sequel into the show? Testaments? Yeah. What can I say about that? I mean, you know, there is going to be the Testaments. That everybody knows, right?

They're going to make the show, so I'm not okay. You know, I think that it's a bit of a balance. You know, you want to make sure that you're not going, like, you're not killing a character that you want to have in the show. Right. But at the same time, because if you've read the Testaments, there's a big time jump. So, thank you Margaret Atwood, that allows us to do certain things in our show

that don't have to affect the show. Testaments. So yes and no is the answer? It makes me thinking about you now as a producer and a director on the show and thinking about how long you've been doing this, it must, like, because there's some very young performers on the show. Is that odd for you to be directing like kids or even auditioning kids? Is that, it must be kind of like a full circle surreal moment for you. It is. It's kind of a beautiful full circle moment though because I love directing kids or younger people. McKenna Grace, you know, who's a teenager on the show. show because I feel like I know what's going on.

You know, I know what's going on over there, and I know what it can be like. And I remember when I was that age or younger, you just want to be spoken to as an adult and as a professional, especially if you're as, like, professionals McKenna. She's the real deal. And so I remember that, and I like to be able to give that back to them. Right. Was West Wing the shift for you when you started to feel like you were an adult at the table? Or were there?

Yes. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, yes, because that was a job that I was doing without, like, my mom there, you know, or school. Right. Victoria wants to know, is there one thing about being on set that seems like common knowledge that everyone knows, but might help someone who is not, so I'm sorry, someone who is super green, not look like a tool, Victoria's words. Also, you're super cool. Thank you for all your hard work. It's been so appreciated. So, so yeah, so misnomer's about a set. that you take for granted that maybe folks don't think of. That would be good advice. Yeah.

Thank you, Victoria. God, I think that you have to, Brad actually talks about this, that they should make you go to acting class at six in the morning. Like they should make you get up at three and go to acting class at six in the morning because that's when you're going to be doing it. Right. You know, and it's, you have to, maybe this, is advice that people do know. Maybe it's not that interesting, but you have to be prepared to

stop for three hours and then get up and do it. And you have to be just as good every time. And so modulating that and taking care of yourself in that way throughout the day is an art in itself, not blowing it all, making sure that you get enough sleep. This is so boring. No, but are you staying in it like for those hours when you're like back in the trailer waiting for them to get it? Me? No. No. No. No, and I don't recommend, I don't mean, do whatever I guess you got to do, but I don't know if that's good, you know? I think that might actually exhaust you.

Right. That would exhaust me. But it's more about just making sure that you know that you're going to have to turn it on when you are asked to, and you may have to, you may have to wait a while before you turn it on again. I think people think you go to set and you're just boom, bu, blah, blah, boom, and you go, go, go, go. And it's a lot of waiting. Do you have a good barometer in your own mind at this point of? like when you've achieved what you set out to do, or do you have to look to the director for?

Kind of a combo. I'm pretty good at judging my own performance, good or bad, and I don't, I don't have a lot of ego in it. Like, I'm pretty sure, like, I'm pretty good at, like, we definitely need to go here that wasn't, I can do better. But I'm also pretty good at being like, yeah, that's all right. I think you need another, I got it.

I think you're good. And are you of the philosophy? I found this fascinating. So we had Sam Jackson here a couple months back. And he was saying how he doesn't give variations on performances. Oh, right. Like, he just does it, and he'll do, like, three takes of the same thing. Yeah.

But he's not going to do 12 different versions because he doesn't want to be burned in the edit. Because he knows what he, what's your philosophy on that. Will you, like, give a director variations? I feel like if you're Sam Jackson, just, like, do it the way that Sam Jackson wants to do it, and you're good. You know what I mean? Like, I respect that for him. I personally get bored really easily, so I like to do a lot of different ways, but what I will do is make sure that that version we have right.

So if there's a version that I liked, I'll be like, is that good though? Is that usable? And then I'll go, okay, great, good, if we've got that, I'd like to try something else. I don't like to do the same thing twice. Just because I feel like we got it, I have another chance to do it differently. This is my shot, you know, to try it again. That said, I'm also, especially on Handmaids, involved as a producer, so I get to go back later and be like that take you know given our conversation and what

Brad was saying and what you've said today people that visit the set must be shocked that like you guys are as happy as you are presumably between takes that there's as much laughter as there is oh yeah completely it's just it's you know it's so different from what you see yeah it's so much fun I know that sounds crazy if you know what the show is but like it's so much fun and we really do laugh and joke to the point of where, honestly, sometimes it's like hurting kittens as a director. Like sometimes when they all get together

and there's a lot of them in a scene and they're all friends, the whole cast, and they're talking a lot and they're having a lot of fun. And sometimes you have to be like, guys, we have to do the scene. Like I need you to shut up and they'll get in line and then they're professional and they're amazing. But that's how much fun we're having all the time. You know, it really is.

But you have to be like that, I think, because I think you'd go to the scene if you, if you try to make the show for real. Speaking of fun, I would imagine working with Tycho YTD was enjoyable. Yes. So she's in Next Goal Wins, I believe, is the title. Yeah. With the, I think that's going to be the title. I hope so. With the, not normally hysterical, but I'm excited to see Michael Fastbender in a comedy.

Yes. Okay. So first of all, he's deeply funny. I know. second of all, he's incredible at improv. Oh, my gosh. So the movie's largely improvised. I mean, it's somewhat, it's that kind of thing like Ruben Oslin did with the square

and what he does with his movies, where it's like, it's kind of written and then you try things and there's a lot of different, like, people throw things out there, especially the funny people. And he is absolutely brilliant in improvising. He doesn't do the, like, um, like that's me, you know, like, I'm not going to, I don't like improvising. And he actually will improvise full monologues. He's absolutely brilliantly funny.

Amazing. I know. I'm excited. Isn't that interesting? It's almost obnoxious that he's also good at that. I know. Yeah. It makes me angry.

And he's also really nice. It's the worst. He once wouldn't talk to me for a year or two. We had an incident. We had a, it's a long story. We're okay now. We're good. What happened?

I said something that I thought was funny that he was, did not deem funny. I know. For real? Yeah, totally, totally real. Oh, my God. This is like a real. Yeah, I've talked about it before, so it's okay. Did you talk to him?

Yeah. You guys are good now? Yeah, we're good. So I need to beat him up? No, no, we're good. We're all good. He's sent the podcast multiple times. We're okay.

Okay, okay. Anyway. I need to figure out what this is. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. And then just looking ahead, is there anything else? So Stephen Knight, you're going to be shooting that relatively? Is that the next project?

Yeah, that's the next one. We're doing six episodes called The Vale for FX on Hulu. I'm not sure where that is, but. It's like both. It's all the same. Oh, one thing. Just click one of those buttons on the TV. You'll be fine.

And, yeah, so we're shooting that in all over the world, which is kind of cool. Yeah, yeah, not in Canada. Yeah. Spent a lot of time there. Notable for me, yeah. Have you considered given all the events and the events in the show of getting dual citizenship of maybe just, you know? I would love to. I would love to.

I don't think that's possible. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe you've been in. You've spent a lot of time there. I don't know. I should have gotten it like a while ago, though. Now we're almost done.

So, okay, so finally, we're going to end with giving these guys a little sneak peek at an upcoming episode. Before we get to that, we don't want to give away the whole kidding caboodle, but what we can expect this season. But I have seen a bunch more episodes, and it's pretty great. And, yeah, so what would you like the audience to know, or what can we tease about the upcoming season to come? It's, what I've been saying a lot is it's June versus Serena, which is true, but it's also kind of a little bit of a little bit of a, a tease in the sense of that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be battling in the way that you have seen and experienced. Yvonne and I talk about them as Juliet and Juliet. You know, we think they're the great love story of the show. They want the same thing,

but they are going about it in different ways or they previously have been. And I think that that is for me the thing I'm most excited for for people to see when they watch this season is this sort of very surprising way we take their relationship and they're not friendship, but they're kind of, they're linked for life.

This is a good tease. This is a season pro. Is it? Yeah, good job, good job. Here's a good tease too. This is, I believe this is episode four, so it's coming up very soon, a little sneak peek at an upcoming episode.

Here you go, guys. Serena will be in residence to represent Gilead's lifeways advocate for their values The images of Serena at the funeral were very successful for Gilead they want her to remain visible to the world Pregnant miracle yes Get the fuck out of my house get the fuck out of my house No standing here. She has no status. She doesn't have a passport. There's no money in her name. She can't even drive a car. She's limited. I warned you about her. You won't listen. God, you're such a fucking disappointment.

Oh, perhaps your expectations are unrealistic. Have a good evening. I'll see you up. I'm calling the city. We're gonna find out where that place is. I know this guy. I know a guy who works at the House of Commons. He's gonna help us. She always gets what she wants. No, no, not this time. She's not gonna pull a fucking Gilead bullshit here. No, by tomorrow morning. We're gonna have the whole fucking city on this.

Look, June. June, don't worry. All right, we're going to stop this. I'm not worried. I'm not worried. Oh, June. I only hope in our future conversations you never say to me, God, you're such a fucking...

Because that would just wreck me. Pressure is on going forward. As you can see, she only plays dark and disturbed characters. She is a delightful Elizabeth Moss. Let's give it up for her one more time, guys. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused.

Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts on the big podcast. person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters.

We love movies and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone.

From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of, like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button.