Happy Sad Confused - Elizabeth Debicki

Episode Date: December 5, 2018

It was only five years ago that Elizabeth Debicki made her first big splash on the big screen, plucked from virtual obscurity by Baz Luhrmann to star alongside Leonardo DiCaprio, Tobey Maguire, and Carey Mulligan in "The Great Gatsby". She made an impression from the get go and since then she's wasted no time in assembling an impressive resume.  Elizabeth joins Josh on this episode of "Happy Sad Confused" to discuss her latest film, "Widows", plus her experiences in "Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. II", "The Night Manager", and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The new BMO ViPorter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks, more points, more flights, more of all the things you want in a travel rewards card, and then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO ViPorter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit BMO.com slash ViPorter to learn more. Today on Happy, Sad Confused, Elizabeth Debicki on Guardians, Gatsby, and Widows. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

I'm very pleased to say that my guest on today's episode is the very talented young actor, Elizabeth DeBickey. She is the Australian-born star of such films as the Great Gatsby, Gardens of the Galaxy Volume 2, and currently can be seen in Widows. Steve McQueen at the helm, this taught thriller opposite the likes of Viola Davis and Michelle Rodriguez and Colin Farrell and Robert Duval. That's an easy cast to get lost in, but that is not what happens with Elizabeth Debicki.

She, if anything, stands out. She's one of the best performances in the film and one of my favorites of the year. She very much could be, and I hope she is, frankly, in the awards hunt this year. because it's kind of a star-making role. Not that she needs a star-making role because I think she's been on the radar of people like me and other kind of film geeks out there for the last couple years.

2013's The Great Gatsby. She appeared in Macbeth opposite Fastbender. She was in 2015's The Man from Uncle, Guy Ritchie's film featuring Army Hammer and Henry Cavill. And this year alone, appearing in widows, but also a great movie called The Tale, which I really wish it had gotten a theatrical run.

It probably is still available on HBO or HBO on demand. Well worth your time. A really dark, tough movie, but a really good one filled with great performances from her and Laura Dern and Jason Ritter. So, you know, if you're in the mood for a tough drama, go look up the tale. And I guess tough drama could also describe widows,

but it's a little bit more conventionally entertaining. Anyway, very pleased to have Elizabeth on the show to talk about all of that and Gardens of the Galaxy Volume 2 and all that fun stuff. So I hope you guys enjoy that conversation. I hope you're also enjoying the holiday season. We're in December, guys. We're careening towards the end of 2018. Everybody's putting together the top 10 movie lists.

I'm cramming like crazy trying to see all the movies I haven't seen. I'm really lucky and privileged. I acknowledge that. I get screeners so I can sort of like pile them up and I'm catching. up on everything I haven't seen earlier in the year. I just watched Vice, which hasn't even come out yet, but it's the Christian Bale Dick Cheney movie. Really like that one. Yeah, there's a lot. I have to see this movie. Cold War that everybody seems to love. Roma is going to be at the top of my list. There's a lot of good stuff out there. So I hope you guys are making time for some good

movies because this is the time of year to enjoy it. Anyway, I'll put out my top 10 list pretty soon and I'll share that information with you guys on the podcast and on my social media. Beyond that, what else to remind you about? Oh, I got to mention after hours. My comedy shenanigans after hours on Comedy Central continues. Last week, we debuted a fun sketch with Ezra Miller. Wonderful, Ezra Miller. Couldn't love him more. His second sketch with me over the years and it's a it's a doozy. It's pretty amazing. He commits so fully. I love love that man. I think we're going to do a lot more in the future. He's the best. And as I taped this today, another one coming out this week. I won't reveal too many details, but another

after hours coming out this week that I'm very proud of. Taped another sketch just today with a former happy, say, I confused podcast guest. How else can I tease it? Big, cool star from maybe the most beloved television show on TV right now. I love him. I've talked about him a lot. That's all I'm going to say. He's going to have a big 2019 because he's starring at a big comic book movie. There, now I've said a lot. That's a happy second feature.

Sorry, that's an after-hours sketch that has been shot. It's in the bank. We're going to put it out in early 2019. Stay tuned. There's a tease for you guys. Anyway, I'll let the conversation with Elizabeth Tobicki take over. But as always, I will remind you guys, please review, rate, and subscribe to happy, said, confused, spread the good word, and in the meantime, enjoy this chat.

My look, it's Elizabeth Tabicki. She's caffeinated. Almost. It's too hot. I can't sit there yet. It looks very... Full? Full? Black and hot? Sure. This is really an ad for Starbucks. She's on her eighth wind, as we were saying earlier. You've been running around spreading the good word of your wonderful new filth. film Widows, which I love, one of the best of the year, Needles to say. I mean, Steve McQueen, ever. One of the best, ever. One of the best films ever made.

It's very good. I'm very proud of it. With some perspective, maybe I might say that. It's pretty great. So thank you so much for stopping by. Thank you for having me. So where to begin, where to begin. We've only talked a couple times, and pretty much in brief.

The last time was in Toronto. And I was just saying to your gang, like, my recollection of that was, like, you know, you're doing like a thousand interviews. on both ends like you are I am and I remember just like a lot of the interviews I was doing were kind of like silly and light and whatever and then the four of you came in the room and it just turned into like a profound like masterclass on like race gender class the state of humanity basically yeah it is um so has that what what this press store has been like is a bit a little bit more intense thoughtful than the usual kind of press thing so I think because of what the

film is saying um on one hand And, you know, the themes that it explores, which is, I mean, it really runs the gamut from, like, political corruption, race, police brutality, domestic violence. You name it, we go there. And in a sort of efficiently profound way, you know, I think that's sort of part of Steve's genius. He can sort of enter into a territory with such speed and kind of precision, I think, and really say something very powerful. But he doesn't dwell. It's not indulgent. It doesn't, like, drag you in and drag you.

out, it just kind of like goes there. I think, I guess what I mean is before you know it, you're there. Yes. Which is kind of his genius as a filmmaker. No, it plays, I think, on first blush as sort of just like a great drama slash a little bit of a thriller. I mean, just an intense drama. And then I think the more you think about it and the more, as much as you want to delve into that juicy stuff, you can, which is great. It makes for a thoughtful night of the movies, hopefully afterwards.

I think it does, yeah. Um, so in doing my, my thoughtful research on you and your career, I can't find many, like, long interviews with you. I feel like we're breaking ground here. I feel, have you even podcasted before? Have you done a longish thing like this? I did one podcast. Oh my God. So I'm yours. I really enjoyed it. My mother always said I had a face for radio. That's just insane. So I am enjoying it. What a nice mom you have. I know. I know. She's a really nice mom, actually. She's a good mom. Um, so speaking of mom, uh, parents, dancers, as I understand. Correct. So growing up in, where do you grow up? You were born in France. So I was born in Paris, and my parents were dancers, but both of them started their careers as ballet dances and then went more into theater, and my mom was in one of the early productions of cats on the West End in London.

So my mom grew up in Australia, and my dad is Polish. And we lived in Paris until I was about nearly six, and then we moved over with. with my little sister as well. And then I, yeah, I grew up in Melbourne in the really, really super glorious southeastern suburbs of Melbourne. I'm sensing sarcasm. Yeah.

So not so glam. How would you, because I'm not so well-versed. Very ordinary, just suburban kind of upbringing, you know, my primary school was in one direction, 10 minutes we walked there. And then when I went to high school, it was 10 minutes in the other direction. And, you know, yeah, run my bike around.

I mean, I was shoved with love into ballet class from the age of, you know, six. Well, that's quite because, I mean, your parents really loved what they did. Yeah, I mean, my mother taught me for when I was a kid. My mom had a ballet school. So my mother taught me up until a certain age, and then I sort of got pumped off to other teachers. But, yeah, I mean, dance was very much a part of our life. It's really when I think about it, I was very, very, very, my dad ended up working in a

theater as a technician. I mean, one of the state theaters. And so we kind of got smuggled into the back of pretty much every company, everything that ever toured through Melbourne from the age of, you know, seven. So I was exposed to a lot of theater. So what were your, was that the primary means by which you kind of like enjoyed culture? Or were you like any other kid watching like silly TV and silly movies or whatever? Like what are the things that really made an impact on you growing up as you were

I mean, probably having like very theatrical parents, you know, like my, their interests are where we were sort of, yeah, we were, we were dragged to a lot of strange theater, a lot of strange, like, you know, some, like, Israeli company from, you know, would be touring with some piece where everybody was, like, wrapped in cellophane and, you know, plastic bags on their heads and, like, there was, like, TV static in the corner and that was, you know, that was so exciting. Okay, that's good, fine, whatever, I guess. I mean, when I was eight, I was like, guys, do we have to see this again? I'm so bored.

Can we watch Save by the Bell? Yeah, yeah, but, you know, no, regular. I mean, my parents worked a lot when we were, when we came home from school, that was, like, out we didn't have to watch Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers we could like put the Simpsons on or every other 90s cartoon I can think of What were the 90s cartoons? What were you in? Oh my God

Do you remember that show Hey Arthur? I'm familiar I'm a little bit older than you so I'm... Hey Arthur? Hey Arnold! Oh, hey Arnold, yeah. Hey Arnold, yeah. Author, I mean, just all Nickelodeon, blah, blah, blah. I don't really remember. I was the oldest sister so I was the one that was like everybody do their homework responsible one. Eat this grilled cheese sandwich, yeah. Did you, were there trips to the States?

Like, when did you first come to? No, do you know, funnily enough, I mean, we used to travel back and forth to Europe. I mean, there was a big period in time where we didn't go back. And then we went back to Poland for the first time again since we left Europe when I was about 14, 15, which was a big chunk of time passed. But the first time I ever went to the United States of America was to audition for Baslim and for the Great Gatsby. Okay, so let's jump, well, we're going to jump all the way, like, all backwards and forwards, but that is obviously, it's about, I think, about five years ago, roughly,ish. Oh, you are so kind.

Let me think, it was, I was 21, so, say, seven years ago. Okay, so, I think probably the time you auditioned in that part. Different to when the film actually came out. Because that was a process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As does processes, processes. Yeah, I mean, in a funny way, like, it was relatively simple on my behalf. I it was like my second my second audition uh I just finished I just graduated drama school so I went to the three year theater training school and um it was my second ever screen test and um an Australian casting director was was screen testing girls to play Jordan Baker I think there was a I'm quite sure there was like quite an extensive world you know like a lot of people were casting for it because at that point I mean Baz had Leo and Toby

And Carrie. I think he'd just cast Joel. So she was the last sort of piece of the puzzle that he needed. Yeah, and it was my second screen test. And I went in to the audition. I mean, there's a whole, you know, I didn't know how to screen test. And I really wanted the part. So, you know, I remember convincing a friend who was a hairdresser

to sort of do my hair in something vaguely period. But it was a really windy day. And I put it like old, like old grandma cap on, walked around the street where I did to do. the screen test. I was so nervous. I mean, I remember the reader was so fast. I dropped all the lines. I had no idea what I was doing, basically. And then that got sent off to Baz, and then they flew me to L.A. to test with him and Toby at the chateau. And it was so surreal. I had no idea what was going on. I mean, I remember waking up at the standard hotel and opening my curtains and just seeing billboards, and I was so flummixed. I was like, what is this strange town? I still feel a little bit like that in L.A. It feels like a little bit like an appropriate story for, like, for Baz, who as much as a modern filmmaker as he is, feels like he's kind of, it makes sense that he would do the worldwide searches and screen tests and just like he is, he's a unique filmmaker. I mean, I've spent some time with him over the years and like he's obviously a big personality. You know, looking back, does that experience feel altogether unusual now that you have other things to compare it to? In a way, I mean, Baz is extremely unique.

and how he runs his set. And there's also something quite old-fashioned about Bazza's set. You know, I mean, but the interesting thing is I had, it was my first job on film. No, I lie. I'd done an Australian film where I had one line, but they cut it. But it didn't matter because I could pay my rent. I was very pleased about it.

So it was my second ever job, and I had nothing to compare it to. Right. If I today was suddenly on Baz's set, it would feel enormous to me. Right. Because it was an enormous. production, the scale of it. I mean, we would have several cameras at multiple times on cranes,

on, you know, the very first shot I ever did in the film was the shot when Jordan walks up to Nick at the party and takes the visor off and the camera on this enormous crane pans over like 400 extras and I had to say a line. That was my first day. But I mean, it was baptism by fire, but I, and of course I was terrified, but I also, I mean, comparative thought can be such a destructive thing, you know. So when you don't have any better, thankfully. I was just sort of like, I guess this is what you do on a film set. Now, you know, but every time I've, I mean, every job is so different from the next one in terms of scale, but also how a director wants to run a set, but also where you're out in your life and audition processes change drastically. Sometimes I've been

offered things, some things I chase down rapidly, don't get them or I do get them, you know, so it varies. Was Baz a big filmmaker for you growing up? Oh, massive. I would think. Strictly Ballroom is seminal to Australians. I mean, it's sort of like a rite of passage. But also, I mean, Romeo and Juliet sits there in my sort of top five. Romion Juliet is one of those films that it's, you know, Saturday night and you've decided to not do anything. Let's just, I always will feel like watching that. Right. It's a comfort food. It's a comfort food film. But also Milan Rouge, I mean, yeah, I mean, he's a genius. Yeah. So off of that, correct me if I'm wrong, you do a play with some pretty esteemed actors

straight off of that? Is that true? The next job, yeah, yeah. I did a play with Kate Blanchard and Isabel Hupert at the Sydney Theatre Company. At that point Kate and her husband, Andrew Upton, were running the Sydney Theatre Company. And I got this sort of email that said, would you, could you come and have a chat and a glass wine with Kate and Andrew

and chat about this? They're doing a, you know, Andrew's writing a version of the maids by Jeunay. and they want you to play the mistress. So Kate and Isabel were always going to play because it plays about these two sisters and their mistress and it's very, very, very, very dark, twisted, brilliantly kind of slightly sadistic play. And, yeah, of course, I wasn't like,

oh, let me just check my, yeah, of course I'm going to do that. Incredible job. So, yeah, that was the next game. So, and again, it seems like you're just like quickly knocking off the Australian film icons, whether it's Baz, or Kate, I mean, just give me a sense of sort of what it's like to act opposite Kate and Isabel night after night. And you eventually came here to New York to play. We did do it in New York, yeah. You know, working with somebody, working with those two women, I mean, this is how I sort of

would sum it up. I remember, because there's quite a lot of the play that my character wasn't in. And she sort of enters halfway through. And I kept coming to rehearsal really early. Like, I was there like 20 minutes before everybody and I would sit there with my coffee and my my my script and really lovely telling isabel to eat her grill cheese sandwich isabel hoopin no I we had this beautiful director um benedict andrews and he um he said to me one day he came up and he said you know you don't have to be here so early and I just looked at him like are you completely insane there could not be a better acting class than watching these two women nut through this really dense yeah

text and watch them throw things out and try things and fail and I mean I learned so much from watching them work and then sort of then the next step in that process was then I had to get up on the floor and figure out what I was doing but by that point I'd sort of I mean the atmosphere in the room was was one of like sort of reckless fearlessness because I mean that's I mean that's why I love theater too because you get this period of rehearsal that's like a laboratory and nobody sees you right nobody sees you fall on your face repeatedly right And then it's glorious, and then you go out on, and then you sort of, you know, gather up the bits that sort of work and then try them in front of people.

But, you know, there was one section of the play where I was on stage with Kate, and it was this sort of choreographed piece where she was getting my character dress because my character sort of wouldn't touch anything herself, wouldn't do her own makeup. And so we choreographed this very intricate little dance with tights and fishnet stockings and gloves and lipstick and spitting on things, and it was all very gross and dark and great. I loved it. And then, you know, so we would, we would, there's a lot of text in the play. And then Kate and I once said to each other, it's like we would, it's like we swam, we would swim

through the, like, swamp. And then we'd get to this little boat. And then we would sit on the boat and neither was had to speak. And we just got to be and work off each other. And it was just so electric. And I will never, you know, that's one of those things that you tuck in your little toolbox and think, I mean, I always got to do. that with Kate and it was genius. It's funny because like in the wake of like so that those couple early experiences, what I'm struck by like in looking at at your relatively young

career still is like you've avoided. I feel like the generalization for actors, both male and female in their 20s is that's not generally when I think the best roles happen. They're kind of the least interesting roles. And I feel like you've been pretty good about avoiding those traps. For people in their 20s? Yeah. Do you think that's fair to say or No. I mean, because I feel like you haven't really done kind of the stereotypical kind of like life at home or girlfriend at whatever. Like, you're not propping up other people too much. Like, you've really had your own interesting characters. And I don't know if that's happens to answer luck or strategy or what, or if you disagree with my. No, you know, I mean, there's nobody who

will say it before I do that I've been incredibly fortunate to play really, really varied roles. I mean, everything from one thing to the next thing I do, I try to find something that's very different from the last thing I did. But you're only in control of that to a certain degree at the beginning of your career, certainly when you just want to know what's out there and you just want to get your foot in the door

and get the audition, you don't, you have no power, no sway really at all. So I think it's a combination of luck and then really pushing, sometimes really pushing for things that I wasn't being considered for at all from the beginning. And sometimes those battles were won't, and sometimes they won't. I mean, one of the roles I loved playing so much

and, you know, that was really helpful for me in terms of people sort of seeing me in a slightly different way as an actress was a role I played in a BBC series, BBC AMC series called The Night Manager. And that role, you know... See your buddy up there. Hey, Tom. Hey, Tom, on a book with a mustache. Gosh, that's so random.

Why is that random that I would have a coffee table book filled with Tom Hiddleston photos? They're just all Tom? It's a long story. Have you seen the coloring book that's like the Benedict Cumberbatchell, or Tom Hiddleston coloring books? I believe it. I've not seen it. I'm going to get you one.

Please do. They sell them at the National Theater in England. You finish your story, then I'll talk Tom Hiddleston, because we've got a mutual love affair with Mr. Hiddleston. Okay. So that role, you know, I think that there are many, I mean, that's the interesting thing. about casting too. Casting directors have have choices, you know, there's many, many different ways you can go. I'm not, well, listen, I think that a lot of the time people go less and less now, less and less and less, but people can go for the obvious, this is what this role looks like,

we need somebody this age that looks like this, that is that kind of essence or vibe or something. Sure. And I feel like I spent a lot of my career jumping in a room and sort of going, I know you want this, but why don't, maybe let me tap dance on your time. table, let me just, let me see if you want this instead. And, you know, for many years, everyone was sort of like, no, not really. And for whatever it was, physical, how you physically look, the energy you give off or something. But I remember with that role, you know, we had to convince a lot of people. And I, you know, I campaigned really hard as much as hard as you can. I remember writing an email to Susanna Beer saying, please, please, please, please let me play this part.

Yeah. And that was, you know, probably the closest I'd come to playing. a really multi-dimensional role. I mean, because I had had amazing opportunity. I mean, working with Baz, and, I mean, Jordan Baker. I mean, she's an iconic character. But, you know, and then Man From Uncle, I played, you know, this very sort of arch villain, which was a great challenge. But she was really the first time someone gave me, like, a real woman to play.

And the company of actors, in addition to Mr. Hiddleston on that one, unbelievable. I mean, Hugh Lorry seems to be the most, like, charming, self-deprecating, wonderful, dark, darkly humorous man on the floor. planet. I'm dying to have him in here at some point. And Tom, was that your first experience like being around like a like a human like meme generator on the internet? Like if you if you go on YouTube and look up your name on the on on YouTube like the first interview that comes up is Elizabeth the Bickey talks about reactions at Tom Hiddleston's bum. That's of course. And what a legacy that is. I'm so pleased to hear that's what happens when you Google me. Trust me. We're going to

replace that with something more weighty. But... There are so many things I could have sent in and I didn't. Oh, damn it. But not to mention Olivia. Like, I mean, that cast must have felt pretty unique to be in the company of. The thing about that cast is, you know, each of those actors are like England's national treasures, every single one of them. From Hugh to Tom, Olivia, and Tom Hollander.

You're right, Tom Holden, of course. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I think most of them. them had been to Cambridge as well. I remember sitting in the room sort of thinking, one of these things is not like the other one. I really was like, I'm just this token Australian. I, yeah, but I loved, I mean, they're all just these magnificent actors

and beautiful people. That was an amazingly, you know, I grew a lot making that show. Where are we at with the continuation? Do we know anything? You know, I don't know. If you knew anything, could you say anything? No. So you'll never know if I do know anything.

You've done a lot of those kinds of roles lately. You're good at lying now. Yeah, good at lying, but... Well, isn't that what I do for living? I suppose. But I think that, you know, it's really tough for actors. You know, when we do press, if you're involved in Marvel or something, and people want to know, and you just simply can't tell them.

You just feel like a bit of an asshole, but, you know, I can't. It's okay. It's okay. Backtracking a little bit. So, Man from Uncle, which... Guy Ritchie is another unique cat. The way he, I was on one of his sets once, my overriding memory of it was, like, him in the corner, like playing on his guitar.

Banjo, yeah. Yeah. Which isn't what you expect. You expect the most high-intensity, like, manic director, but he seemed like the chillest guy on the set. He's very, very relaxed. Almost too much so. He loves to, no, I mean, Guy, Guy directs with sort of, like, a real ease.

his set is very laid back. And I think actors feel really comfortable to just sort of do what they want to do with the part. And, you know, he comes in if he needs to meddle. But sometimes I'd be like, is God, are you, are you watching the moment? And he'd be like, that's great. Did he just leave the camera running? It's great.

What else do you need? I'm like, what else do you need? Do you like that as like a, like, do you have like a sweet spot as an actor on a set in terms of like how much you want to hear from the director? No, I think it varies because, I mean, everybody, no, I mean, it's a really interesting thing when you start. But when you start working with someone and you negotiate how much some directors like to, you know, really like micromanage. Yeah.

And that can be beautiful. And you feel incredibly held and mold. The whole thing feels molded. And you're very, you trust that they're seeing every single little beat, which can be very sort of in itself freeing. Because you just feel like, well, everything is monitored. And also it's a sense of like, if you're working with somebody like that and they say, great, we've got it moving on. I mean, you feel like you really pack. yourself in the back. You're like, well, I guess there's...

No other way I could do that. But I suppose for me, you know, I mean, and just to take this to widows, I mean, the most... Steve is just like the most incredible, incredible director to work with. Because I think what he is and how he works for me was the sweetest spot I've ever been in as an actor because there's a huge amount of freedom. But Steve is so specific. He's also incredibly sensitive and very, very, he's very aware of the psychology of every single moment of the actor and the character. And Steve is kind of one of these people who he just wants the truth. Right. And again, there's a sort of efficiency to that. It's hard to explain exactly how he gets to it, but it's sort of like, I once described him as like a soul

Terminator, like, it's like he scans you and he sees exactly the thing that you haven't given yet, the little piece that's going to unlock whatever it is that's blocking you getting to where you're going. But it's also, also like, I don't know, I just love him so much and as a human being too. And I've trusted him so much before I stepped onto the set that when I got there and I had this incredible material to work with and these amazing actors to work with. and I cared so deeply about the role. I mean, that combination is just like, you just want to fly, you know.

Is this another example a la Knight Manager where you had to do some convincing or, like, what was the pursuit of this one way? You know, weirdly, not dissimilar to what I described with Baz in a sense that I had just landed back in Australia after doing a play in London. Literally, like at the airport was waiting for my bag around the carousel and I got a little email in my inbox

that said, you know, can you self-tape the, for Steve McQueen's new film. So I was sort of immediately unbelievably nauseous and terrified and, you know, learnt the lines. I mean, the sides that I were sent were Alice, my character's lines. And I just from that alone could tell that I just had to, I just had to play her. I was obsessed. I put a self-tape down in my, in my dear friend's garage. And who happens to be an amazing person to read opposite.

He's got a great camera, so I mean, I was like, babe, can you please? I really need to get this down for Steve McQueen. And so then we sent that off to him. And very quickly, I think about two days later, I was, I jumped on a flight to come over to L.A. He and his producer Ian Canning were in L.A. And yeah, I spent this sort of, again, nauseating 12 hours, trying, you know, not sleeping, woke up the next morning. Right.

drove to, to read for Steve McQueen. I mean, it was profoundly, it was like a reckoning, you know, sometimes I think you have these moments as an artist where you think, if I, I have to go in there and I have to do everything I can do to, to, to take this thing that I need. You just to lay it all out on the table, right? There's no, I mean, there's no, I remember thinking there is nothing to lose. Yeah. which is a really interesting place to sort of spring from in a reading of a character.

And I remember going into the room just sort of thinking, I have to, I have to take this home now. Like, I need to play this part. What is the, I'm curiously, what is the etiquette? Like, do you, like, when you go into something like that, do you, like, say outright, like, I need to play this role? Or is it just about the work? Is it just like, let me get into the reading? You know, I remember speaking to him about the part before very briefly.

Because Steve is also someone who just, he wants to see it in the work. Yeah. He doesn't like to chat around it. Yeah, he's not about the BS of business, right? No, no, you know, and I think you can try and convince somebody, but it's about what you're doing with the work and the lines. But, you know, we chat a little bit, and then I got up, and I read one of the scenes, and, you know,

the character I play in this movie has a really amazing journey is a very sort of a pretty brutal kind of coming into her own Because when we find her, she's so, she's very, very abused by her husband, and her mother is very abusive as well. And she's just this creature who has, like, completely internalized this sense of being a worthless piece of nothing. And there's a moment, I won't give anything away, but there is a moment in the film where things turn around and she shifts them. And it's a very dark place to be. It's very raw. And that was one of the things I read for him.

You know, so I read it and then, um, and then we had a cup of tea. Next thing, you know, you're in Chicago opposite some of the best actors on the planet. I mean, this film, I mean, we could stop at the four core actresses, but then, like, that would deny us talking about, like, the Colin Farrell's, Daniel Cleo. Like, every, every corner of the screen is occupied by one of the best actors on the planet. I know, I know. I know. It's insane. Yeah, think about the catering tent.

It was a lot. It's like, that's Robert Tavall eating lunch. That's Colin Farrell's eyebrows. They're amazing. Oh my God, I'm obsessed. Talk to me. It does have great eyebrows. Doesn't he?

What does Viola Davis do that's 99.9% better than anybody else in the planet? Is there a way to define what that secret sauce is that makes us just like drawn to her on the screen? Yeah, I mean, it's something to do with her ferocious intellect. Yeah. She is fiercely intelligent. but it's not just I mean she's one of the most articulate people I've ever been around in my life and listened to

it's mesmerizing hearing her talk about this film and we're doing a lot of press for it and I really sit there and then someone asks me a question and I remember I'm even in the room but she's very very cerebrally connected to the material but her intelligence is so in her body It's so visceral. And I think that the hallmark of all great acting

or actors is their ability to have deep empathy. Sure. And Viola does. And working with her as a gift. And, you know, we have a few pretty amazing scenes together in this film. And one in particular that's very, very physical between us. And I remember going into that day and just thinking, I mean, I'm deeply privileged to work with this woman

and I was so excited to see what we were going to do and what that space was going to be between each other and it felt sort of like a wrestling match, you know? Like we just jumped in and we challenged each other and it's amazing. One of the many reasons I wanted to have you in here is that, I mean, I've been following your work for the last few years, but especially this year,

I think I've seen you in four different films. I think you have a fifth that's probably coming out next year, Vita and Virginia, right? but yeah you've run the gamut this year from like the tail which is an amazing film to posing on a red carpet with a giant rabbit so that's the mark of a breadth of a and a giant carrot that was a highlight that's why you got into this business right right I've made it but you can look back at this year as like this is kind of the goal for any actor and like as much as we're joking about it like it doesn't get much disparate than

widows, Peter Abbott and the tale. Right. Right. Are you able to kind of like accept a little like self-congratulatory like, oh yeah, I'm kind of diversifying in the right way. I'm checking off different boxes and I'm still pretty early in this career. I mean, you know, it's difficult for anybody and I think also incredibly important to to step outside of yourself and take stock. and it's very easy as an actor when you go from job to job but your job is being other people to get very lost in the work

and then you spring over to the next job and then the next job and you're traveling and geographically you're all dislocated and whatever and you know a year or two can go past and you don't you're not really aware of what it is you know the combination of what it is you've made it takes podcasters to make you take stock

is what that's what we're here for yeah no but you know I think there's been, for instance, you know, last night we had a little red carpet at BAM for this film and I stood back and I was watching Steve and Viola speak to journalists and Michelle, you know, was getting her photo taken and Cynthia was there in this incredible dress

and I did take a moment to just sort of let it drop in because I am really, really proud of this film and I'm really proud of what it's doing. I mean, I just came from a Q&A and everybody's responding to this film in a beautiful way, but this is really, really touching women in a really profound way. So maybe it's easier for me to sort of pat myself on the back with this one because I can see the direct effect. I mean, I'm Australian and I hate to sort of keep the stereotype going,

but I am extremely self-deprecating, probably to the point where I could, yeah, I could afford to be a little nicer to myself. But that's also a part of, I think, you know, I also think it's a part of what's going on with women in the world and, you know, with me too in our industry, but women in general is sort of, I said it the other day, like, it's so much easier for me to look at a woman in my life and say, congratulations, this is incredible, you are beautiful and luminous and wonderful and powerful. And then someone says it to me and I go, oh, stop it, stop it, stop, but it is important, you know, it's a, I'm learning to accept. Oh, my God, how convoluted is this? No, no, no. But it sums up that, I guess,

the complexity of how difficult it can be to sort of step back and say, oh, I think I, I think that was all right. Yeah. Yeah, you're allowed. You're allowed. I'd be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit of Guardians because to be a part of that company is a rare opportunity for an actor. And what's the overall, what's the, what's the day you remember?

What's the overall memory? What's the biggest thing that jumps out when you think back to the experience of making Guardians too? Definitely the first day, the first scene we shot. I was in that gold dress on the throne and that dress weighs an extraordinary amount. It takes about four women holding each side of the dress up and then we call it the taco because we have to fold the sides of it up

so I can like wobble around. I'm also wearing enormous heels. Yeah, as if you need that help. Right. I remember when James was sort of like, but we also want you to be eight foot tall. I was all about it. I was,

I love it when people use my height in like a really graphic demonstrative way. I mean, there's no other way to do it, right? Yeah, don't hide it. Let's make a Marvel movie and make you eight foot tall. But that was my first day, the scene where all the Guardians is sort of in that semi-circle around my throne and I'm in that sort of bald cap.

And I couldn't really move my head because the whole image is that, the throne is part of her, but then she steps up out of it. I have these gold contact lenses in, so I can't really see that much. And that was day one. I was sort of like, you know, barely got some oatmeal in and was just sat on this throne. And, you know, that cast are just the loveliest people. But I think I was sort of sat up there like this strange presence, and they were down there.

And it was like the power dynamic from the scene was bleeding into life. And at one point I remember, Chris sort of like crept up and he was like, hey, how are you doing? And I was like, oh my God, please come and talk to me. I'm really lonely. I would give you a hug, but I don't think I can move that of this taco. I'm not allowed to move my head. I want to mention a couple upcoming projects.

I'm very intrigued by, have you been shooting with Mr. Mick Jagger yet? I have. I just wrapped a movie with Mick Jagger. That's insane. And Donald Sutherland. That's double insane. In Italy. In, yeah, coma, right?

In late coma. I mean, that's not a real life you're leading. Apparently it was. Do we have documentation? This is not just some fever dream of yours. Yeah, because I don't think McJaggers has even acted in like nearly 20 years. Is that impossible to forget

your acting opposite McJagger? I mean, we had a really lovely time, to be honest. He was, I mean, he was so great in the role, too. It was a really interesting film. It's called The Burnt Orange Heresy. And it's a very interesting kind of, there's something quite hitchcockian about it's very dark it's a thriller yeah it's about the art world and um and yeah but that was also like

so kind of extraordinary to one day i would be doing these and really beautifully written script too so i have these amazing scenes with donald sutherland too you know i mean there's just acting royalty and is so so good you know i mean sometimes i don't know there just be moments where i'd just watch him again and be completely mesmerized um and then and then forget my line but um but then yeah make as well and then uh another one that i don't know much about but looks pretty intriguing on papers love lovecraft country yes i'm very excited about that project so what it so because this i mean the producers alone you've got some interesting pedigree behind the camera from jordan peel and bad robot etc um the name lovecraft conjures up a lot uh what do we know

what can you say at this point it's based on the book a lovecraft country um i mean or i don't want to give anything away and I'm I don't really know how much I can say but um well it has an extraordinary cast first of all and I'm really excited to get into it and work with all those actors again but um it's set in 1950s Jim Crow America and um it's genre but it is very very much a study of of racism in America in the 50s um in this kind of very interesting setting and yeah I've got a pretty juicy part so I'm really excited to to get it back into that and then just wrapping things up with a nice bow. So are you, you know, I alluded to this before that I feel like you've, you've managed to find some particularly interesting roles, especially in the last

couple of years. Like, is there something that you're not being thought of that you wish would come your way? Like, you're talking about sort of like trying to kind of, you know, going into an audition and, you know, convincing them when maybe you're not on paper the right person. Do you find you have to, like, fight those battles, or are you getting interesting material or, like, where's your head at just generally? Um, I mean, I, yes, I am getting interesting material. There are certain things that I think there, I mean, there's, you get very sort of like superficial about this. I do anyway. I'm like, I want to play a, um, but I, you know, I would

love to, um, I would love to, um, I would love to dance on, I would like to do like a musical or something great. I mean, I'm like a musical baby. So, um, that sometimes, sometimes I think, God, I just love to put a big frock on and do a really period thing. to, I mean, if everyone goes, what about the corset, but, you know, I have to do a lot of that in acting school, and I'm good with it. But that all sounds horrifically superficial, but, yeah, I guess I'd like to tick those boxes. Do you feel that your physicality gets in the way sometimes? Like, you're probably not going to be cast opposite Tom Cruise as a romantic. I don't know. You should ask him. Maybe he'd like to. Maybe. Maybe you'd love it. Um, it's a really interesting question.

I get asked it a lot. I don't know. I mean, my answer's always been, if I missed out on a role, because I was too tall. My agent's never going to pick the phone up and say, yeah, you didn't get it because you're tall. I mean, what am going to do? Like, cut my legs off. Not worth it. I mean, I'm certainly more and more,

and the older I get and the more confident I get the more I own it about myself and I don't try to apologize for it, you know, in any way. And actually, Widows was a really interesting, you know, learning curve for me in terms of that because Steve so embraced my height and never wanted me to, if I so much just slouched on one hip, he'd sort of come and, like, tell me to stand up.

Right. Which is so interesting because I think whenever there is something about us as human beings that is slightly different from the crowd, we do feel, you know, you can either embrace it and use it or you can sort of unconsciously sort of apologize for it. The more, yeah, like I said, the older I get, the more I just sort of completely own it about myself. And that's coming into my own skin too. And, you know. Owning who you are, accepting the compliments, not being so tough on yourself. This is therapy, right? How much do I owe you after this hour?

I'll take anything at this point. Thank you so much for stopping by. As you can tell, I'm such a fan of your work. In particular, this film, Widows, is if people are weighing with a sea in this crowded season, this one is well worth your hard-earned dollar just for. I mean, it's an entertaining film, a thoughtful film, it's got amazing performances, see McQueen's as good as they get. What more can you ask for? Am I selling it well enough? You're selling it very well.

We did well together. Thank you so much again for stopping by. Thank you. My pleasure. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear. an actor, writer, and director, you might know me from the League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old.

Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and case you missed them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look.

And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Thank you.