Happy Sad Confused - Emilio Estevez

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Emilio Estevez ran away from early fame only to now come full circle with it. He joins Josh to talk about revisiting his early works, from THE BREAKFAST CLUB and THE MIGHTY DUCKS to YOUNG GUNS. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Quince.com/happysadco⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. I didn't do it for money. I didn't do it for the fame. I didn't do it for recognition. And I think that's why it was so uncomfortable to come to these things and be recognized. In my opinion, there's no movie, there's no crops, you know, there's no bushel of corn to sort of put to market. There's no film to screen, and we can have a Q&A about it after the fact and talk about what we just saw. This is commerce, and the commerce part of it, the business part of show business, is something that I've never been comfortable with. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Today's main event is Emilio Estevez. very, very cool one for happy say I confused listeners and watchers today. Welcome to the podcast, guys. I want to give you a little bit of backstory and context for this one because it's a cool, it's a cool story. First up, if you hear some drilling in the background, I'm living in hell, there's massive construction outside my window. I apologize. I don't know what to do. The bottom line is I need to record an intro, so we're just going to make it work, right guys? All right, so I'm just back from Chicago. I was a host for a number of events at C-T, to E2. This is a fantastic event from the folks that make New York Comic-Con. They invited me out there for the first time where I hosted panels with the cast of Robocop Once Upon a Time, John Boyega, which will be a podcast episode we're airing very soon here. And a 40th anniversary gathering of the Breakfast Club. That conversation lives elsewhere online. If you just Google Breakfast Club reunion, you will find it in its entirety. You can enjoy it at your leisure.

It was a really amazing opportunity, and the way it all happened is kind of fascinating. I was asked to moderate a bunch of things. Initially, this was going to be a conversation with most of the cast, but not Emilio Estabez, which was not surprising. Emilio, if you know anything about the breakfast club, has avoided doing reunions. Hasn't done one reunion, one photo op, one appearance at the Oscars, nothing, nothing for 40 years. Somewhere along the line, I was told through intermediaries that not only was Emilio now interested in finally attending and participating, but that he wanted to come on the podcast, too, that this was in fact part of his interest. He wanted to come because it was in Chicago, because it was the 40th anniversary, because apparently he's a fan of the podcast, which is very amazing and humbling to hear, and that he wanted to come on and just have a long chat about everything that's going on in his career and some exciting upcoming opportunities.

So, wow, that was amazing that it all lined up that way. And like I said, the video is out there. It's been seen a lot. The photos are everywhere. it was a really, it was a really emotional, special moment to have Emilio part of it and to have 1,200 folks in that theater just embrace him and the entire cast. So, wow, I don't know, you're still processing that event and I will be for a long, long time. As for the one-on-one with Emilio, we take that the next day at C2E2 with, again, some noise issues.

We were kind of in the middle of the convention center, so apologies if you hear some other stuff. But this was a pretty cool, not random, but rare treat to sit down with Emilio and have an extended career conversation. He doesn't do a lot of this. And he was so open, so fantastic, talking about, you know, his beginnings, obviously the son of Martin Sheen and being growing up on sets, amazing stories of being on the set of Apocalypse now, to his kind of heyday, you know, in the 80s and 90s as an actor in the middle of that Brat Pack era. And then, you know, his directing efforts and now where he's at now, which is this really interesting point, and you'll hear it from Emilio himself in a second, where he's kind of now

reconciled with those roles that once he maybe resented is too strong a word, but certainly shied away from and certainly didn't embrace, whether it's young guns or, you know, or or maximum overdrive, or even the Mighty Ducks, I was really fascinating to see where he's at in his career right now, where he's kind of making those early roles that he kind of ran away from at a certain point work for him. Headline here, and it'll probably, hopefully, folks will pick up on this, is the third Young Guns movie is real.

He has a script, he has a cast coming together, he has returning cast members that he talks about in this conference, This is certainly the most extensive extensively. He's talked about the Young Guns sequel that he is going to direct. That's awesome. But he also talks about two other scripts that I had not heard about. I don't think it has been reported anywhere for other sequels to old Emilio Estevez films. So this was, yeah, kind of a pinchery moment.

You know, I grew up with Emilio Estevez in his films and I respect him so much as an artist, as a filmmaker, as an actor. as a human being, following the footsteps of his social activist, father, Martin, a real treat, a real, real treat. Before we get to the Emilio conversation, as always, if you want to get early access bonus materials, we have a cool, special video diary that we're putting together, maybe up by now, from C2E2, including a little cameo from our very own Sam Hewin, that we're going to put up just for the Patreon folks, patreon.com slash happy, say, I'm confused.

There's merch, there's discount, codes, lots of live events coming up, some really cool stuff in the next in May that we're about to announce. So stay tuned. And I've rambled on long enough, but I did want to give you guys a little context because this was an unusual one and a special one for a variety of reasons. So without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Emilio Estevez. All right, shall we shovel? Yes, indeed. All right, Emilio Estevez. Welcome to Happy Second Fusing, man. It's good to see you, buddy. Nice to see you. Nice to be here. Thank you.

Look, this is an unusual circumstance. I mean, usually sometimes, you know, I'm seeing folks back in New York over Zoom. We're in an odd kind of amazing place. We're at C2E2 in Chicago. Indeed. I just want to give some context to this because yesterday, the breakfast club reunited for the first time. Right. Forty years.

How did you get here? Tell me the back story because this is a kind of amazing. Kicking and screaming. And that's the only, I mean, it's kicking and screaming. This is something that has really, something that I have really, something that I've been. really something that I, to use the word of void is not, I don't think, the correct word to use. It's, it's, it's just hasn't been top of mind. Yeah. I'm, I've famously rejected reunions, whether it was a repo man reunion or an outsider's reunion or St. Elmo's or, I mean,

I mean, again, I've been very blessed to be part of these amazing ensembles for films that sort of transcend, transcended generations. And it's, it's a blessing on one hand, but then it's like, okay, the movie had an impact and it continues to, so therefore, there must be a reunion. And so over the years, they've said, well, why doesn't Amelia show up? Where is he? Why is he to hold out? Molly at one point called me, he's the Greta Garbo of the group, and he just refuses to participate. And then like we talked about in the panel, I heard earlier this year that from through a mutual friend, she said, does he just not like us?

Then it gets personal. Exactly. And I thought, come on, man, that's not it at all. It's just not my thing. It never has been. And so I thought if I was ever going to do it, and as I said on the panel yesterday, is that if I was ever going to do it would be, it would be this Chicago. It's a good year. And with you, frankly, because it's not, you're a true cinephile.

And I knew that the questions you would ask in terms of being a well-prepared moderator would be, would carry a certain weight that maybe others wouldn't. And I knew you wouldn't take the moment for granted. Right. And so. Goose bumps. I still have it. just talking about it now and we were talking yesterday I mean like you know this builds up

this anticipation over years and you were nervous and then in the moment it's it's overwhelming it is you walk into that room 1,200 people all have this deep connection with you um how did it feel to be I got very emotional yeah um I didn't anticipate that I would tear up in the way that I did and then I was hoping I was like please don't let Josh ask me the first question because I'm just going to start crying. And I thought, okay, good. He went to Judd. He went to Molly. I was like, I got a minute now to sort of recompose myself. But it was overwhelming. And to see Michael, and to see Molly, who I haven't really seen, I'm going to see in over 35 years, if not longer. Judd and I've stayed in touch over the years. Allie and I have as well. But for the most part, we haven't been

in the same room, in the same space, for many years. So I don't necessarily expect you to suddenly start doing a thousand conventions, but hopefully it does reignite these relationships in some way. I mean, that could be a nice blessing. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, you know, we are talking about a St. Elmo's Fire sequel. They hired Sony Pictures, they're fast-tracking it. They've hired Stuart Blumberg who wrote,

The Kids Are All Right, a frequent collaborator with Lisa Chiladenk. Yes. Who directed Ali and High Art. Right. So Stewart's writing the screenplay. We'll see what happens. I know Rob is keen on it. He's very quick to talk about it.

Yeah. Every time he gets on a red carpet. Rob talks about... I think to Meese said that she's down for it, yeah. We're talking about it now. But it will really depend on the script, but I know the studio is keen on it. Crazy. I know.

We've talked about the storyline. It's interesting. Yeah. It's a very big chili, which is not, you know, would probably not be a surprise to anyone. Yeah. But I think it's, listen, we'll see. It'll be a chance to find the right filmmaker, too, to actually direct. Right.

I know Will Gluck is producing. But here's an interesting thing, too. We talk about conventions and getting me to them. When Anjianetti, the studio executive at Sony, reached out to Lauren Shuladana, the original producer on the film, Lauren said, you will never get Emilio. You have this aura about you now. You will never get Amelia.

He will never show up for this. And Anj said, well, see. And then I got a call from Ange. She said, do you want to have lunch? I said, sure. Sure. So maybe it's just a part of my maturation, sort of my sort of letting things go.

Right. Because I think, and again, I've said this in the past. I've always wanted to look and move forward. I've always never wanted to look in my rearview mirror and talk about what I've done. If you walk into my house, you don't know what I do for a living. Right.

Because there's no movie posters, there's no memorabilia, there's nothing. I celebrate other artists. Yeah. Just not myself. And that's kind of how I'm wired. I get it. And look, I mean, you've had an unusual life and career where, like,

you have been defined by a lot of work early in your career. And you've made a real point of establishing this other, this, you know, your true artistic life, if I were to assess it, is your directing work, I would imagine. That's the personal stuff, of course. It is. But for a young man to be defined by the first five or ten years of films that just happen to come their way that you don't even have a choice in, that's a burden, as much as a blessing. Without a question. Without question. It is, like we were talking about yesterday, the movies pick you you don't pick the movies and there are 200 auditions that you go to before you get into that the list of the final three yeah and then you're the guy and you understand

how it works the you know the longer the process goes i was very fortunate to be in the outsiders and breakfast club and st almost fire all ensembles yeah um and people assume that it was a choice Well, it wasn't. But then, but to your question, I grew up on some really extraordinary film sets. Yes. I mean, starting at six years old, I'm on the set of Catch 22, directed by Mike Nichols in Mexico, and the cast is Alan Arkin and Orson Wells and Martin Balsam and John Voight and Art Garfunkel and Martin Sheen. And so, you know, there you are. And as a boy watching this, admittedly not a great movie. but still. But a curiosity to say the least. And coming right off of the graduate.

So Mike Nichols was, right, so there you are. And I was old enough to recognize where I was. Then four years later, Terrence Mallet and Badlands. And then four years later, Apocalypse Now, six months in the Philippines watching Francis Coppola direct that film, which was just historic. To be on that set. And then, four years later, I'm on the set of Richard Attenborough Gandhi where the call sheet says, you know, 10 million people. I mean, not close. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Back in the day, where you couldn't digitally add them. So, so as a young aspiring storyteller, because I wasn't, and I couldn't call myself an actor, I couldn't certainly call myself a filmmaker, but I was taking in all of this data. Yeah. And the data was epic. and so I've always looked at whatever I do, even if I have a dime to spend on my movies, which is often the case. I always look at the story as epic

because I see the world in an epic proportion. And I can't not see the world that way. And not just how I live my life, but just how I see every story. So that is kind of how I've, that's informed me as a filmmaker. Right. And so it is often a burden because, you know, I want to shoot something. I think we were talking about yesterday. It's like, I want to shoot in two, three, five. And I'll say, well, it's, it's a movie about four people in a house, like the war at home.

And I said, yeah, but I want to shoot in two, three, five, right? I want that sort of, even if it's interior, I want that sort of bendy look as we're coming around, you know, from one room to the next. I want that epic look to the film, even though it's an intimate, movie. Bobby was the same thing. And yet the way we shot Super 16, almost all handheld and steadicam across 500 miles of Spain. Anyway, but still, the shots in the way are, you know,

again, are not, they still have that sort of epic look. And intentionality about it, yeah. I mean, I have to hit upon a couple of the things experiences you've mentioned, because like the opportunity to be on the set. You were a teenager when you were on the set of Apocalypse. 14 years old. So it was made Gio Coppola, who was also 14. Right.

And Lawrence Fishburn, who was also 14, playing 17. We were kids. We were young boys who were just sort of figuring out life, not going to school. We were like our school was a film set. How aware were you of what your dad was going through? I mean, your dad, obviously, it's on film. Like, we know how tough a shoot it was for me.

physically, emotionally, everything. Well, in the documentary Hearts of Darkness, which I'm sure you've seen, they kind of collapsed time and portrayed his breakdown at sort of towards the end of the schedule. When in fact it was early in the schedule, my dad was celebrating his birthday. It was August 3rd. And we had come, I had gotten there in July of 76. So that was 76th, July, or 76 August, he has this meltdown on set because he was celebrating his birthday and he was drinking and Francis had him isolated in his room and, and I was there.

I watched it happen. And I was there when they carted him out. And he was ranting and raging and screaming and he, and they were shooting in a, in a, in a courthouse. I don't know if anyone's ever heard the story. But my dad, you know, always on the side of social justice. Of course. And so we were filming in a building that was used for night court. So it was the upstairs, the apartment where they find him or the hotel room where they find him and carry him out.

Well, they actually did that. We carried him out that night. And night court was happening down. So we came down the stairs. And again, I had seen my dad drunk before, not on this level and certainly not this publicly. And he demanded to go into the courtroom Because he says if I don't go in there He's screaming at my mom

I need to go into that courtroom Because if I don't go in there Some poor son of a bitch It's gonna go to jail for masturbating in front of a pig And and Francis was like Martin Martin no come on Martin It was hilarious We got him in the car we started driving God knows where just somewhere away from

Where we could get him calm down and and and he he's he announced that everyone in the car that he had to pee so we pull over the side of the road and he got out and ran naked into the jungle and kept going and we might never have seen him again and my mom chases him down so Martin run chasing after and we got him back in the car oh my god ten minutes later I have to pee again my mom says Martin you have cried wolf one too many times we're in a piss you can piss all over yourself Anyway, I'm sure they're going to be horrified that I told that story, but it happened. And it's, it's the sort of, those are the stories that I don't think anyone has ever heard. Oh my God, as if, yeah, you think you've heard every story about Apocalypse now. There's a new one for you. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived.

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Please play responsibly. The white chocolate macadamia cream cold burb from Starbucks is made just the way you like it. Handcrafted cold foam topped with toasted cookie crumble. It's a sweet summer twist on. iced coffee. Your cold brew is ready at Starbucks. So in your peer group, when you're starting to make your way as an actor, you obviously change your name at a certain point. Well, I didn't change my name. I just kept my name.

So Sheen, my dad changed his name in 1958. When he came to New York, obviously he looks very Irish. Yeah. And he has this name, Ramon Estevis. And he's like, it sounds kind of Puerto Rue. and Marty maybe or Ramon maybe you want to change your name so he did got it in 1978 79 I started going out on additions managers and agents were saying look kid you know you don't look Latino right it's gonna be a lot easier if you just you sheen it's like that's not who I am they said trust us so my first

headshots I've actually posted on my Facebook page Neil Yoshin. No kidding. It's, and I looked at it, that's not me. That's not who I am. And my father said, don't make the same mistake I did. Yeah. This is who you are.

He says, it may feel like it's more difficult to go with your birth name, but don't make the same mistake. So I didn't. It was a bit of a hurdle. My agents, my manners did not like it. But I stuck with Estevis, and I was told it would never be a name that you'd see over the title. Okay, challenge accepted. Challenge accepted. You won that battle.

So, I mean, I imagine you have an interesting perspective. In recent years, there's been all this talk of the Nepo Baby conversation. I talk to so many young actors who, you know, Jack Quaid and John David Washington, all these amazing talents who bear the burden of this amazing name and the preconceived notions. and you were someone that dealt with all of that, too. Sure. And you're in this amazing peer group, too. We should mention a lot of them we work with

and the outsiders, whether it's Sean Penn or Tom Cruise, et cetera. Did they feel like you had a leg up? Like a leg up? Was there any kind of like, were, like, I don't know, did you feel that weight, that expectation, that jealousy or anything? The only time I felt like the pressure was when I'd go into audition. I thought, my God, they're expecting a Martin Sheen type. of performance as I walk into the room and I'm a kid I'm still finding my way I'm

still trying to figure out you know who I am and what my skill set is so so for me it was I never felt anything other than support by my peers or from my peers so Sean was a was a good friend growing up Tom became a friend through Sean Rob Lowe was our neighbor. So we all knew each other. Downey went to Santa Monica High like the rest of us. So it was odd to have all of those young, talented people grow up within close proximity to each other, much less go to the same high school. It just is, I can't really, it's hard to describe.

Yeah, something was in the water there. Something. But again, it was L.A. It was a sort of a melting pot for people coming from all over to try to, you know, make their way in Hollywood. So not unusual. So, yeah, it was interesting times. It's been fun to see, like, you and Tom, like, dip into each other's work over the years. You know, he has that small moment in young guns.

Young guns. Well, he showed up on set. And I said, hey, man, because he just wanted to visit. I mean, back in the day, you would just do that. You'd sort of say, hey, where are you shooting? I'll come in Atlanta. I'll come. I'm shooting in New Mexico.

I'll show up and it wasn't other than just to support right and that was the great thing when when we were all we all really supported each other which you don't see a whole lot of today but yeah he showed up I said do you want to get shot in this I said sure he said yeah put me in a beard and whatever well and I did the same thing the next day I was bored and they were shooting we did the reverse we were shooting the the the the cavalry and the bounty hunter shooting at us I was like you know what I'm gonna do what Tom did so I put on a beard and a hat there's a shot in the movie where I'm shooting at myself as Billy the Kid or as one of the bounty hunters shooting at Billy the kid that we shot the day before so so we have the

Young Guns conversation now because they're you know this is this is being talked five years in the making so this started before this started in 2019 and I approached John Fusco the original writer of films and I said hey John here's what I'm thinking and this is prior to the Mighty Ducks game changers thing with Disney and all that I was like what do you think about this he said I I think we should investigate. I think we should start. So I just started doing all the research, staying in touch with John. So what about this?

What about this? Great, great, great, great. Can I just backtrack what we were saying? I'm just curious. Your relationship to those two films, like, did you always have like a particular fondness for them? Was this like an itch that you always wanted to scratch? Because we've talked about like you're kind of like wrestling with nostalgia and wrestling with returning to things. You know, the Mighty Ducks was something you kind of like had to be dragged to, kicking and screaming a little bit.

Oh yeah, yeah. In both directions. In and out. We'll get to that if we have time. But why Young Guns? Why did this war you back that you want to return to this story? Well, I'm going to say something that will probably scary, but playing Billy the kid, that character is probably the closest I've ever played to anybody who is like me.

And not that I'm sociopathic. However, it is, it's probably the most fun I've ever had playing a character. character. He was so beautifully unhinged. And from what we know, historically speaking, that that is who he was, that he was a prankster, that he was a jokester, that people adored him, but they were also terrified of him because you never knew what direction you were going to get on any given day. And so I just had such an affinity for the character. And over the years, I've become very fond of the desert and the southwest. And I feel very at home in New Mexico. And again, you raise a really interesting question, and that is, why would you want to go back to something when all

you've talked about for the last 20 years is moving forward? In this current climate of nostalgia, and if I'm going to get dragged back, kicking and screaming, how about I not get dragged? Yeah. To the stuff you were kind of... kicking or screaming. Yeah. Something that I really enjoyed. Yeah. Let's figure out a way to reboot this. Re-discover it, re-examine it, however you want to frame it. And so I thought, we already teased this idea with Brushy Bill Roberts. I went to High Co, Texas, where Brushy Bill is buried, spent time in this very small town in central Texas.

And there is a compelling argument that he was not killed in Fort Sumner in 1881. there's a very compelling argument that Pat, Garrett, and Billy the kid were too good a pals and Pat let him go. I believe that story. I know there are a lot of historians that cry foul on that. And, you know, I'm sure, and that's valid as well. Sure. But I think that this take on history that he lived to be an old man and died in 1950 after going to the governor, Governor Mayberry in Santa Fe, had an audience with, the governor and stated his case and then three weeks later he was dead so there wasn't

he didn't get a lot of time to to for for forensics the certainly the forensics that we have now sure and and the investigations to to get to where they to where we are now just so since we made the movie they did a side-by-side comparison with the with a picture of brushy bill and a picture of the the only tin type photo that exists of the kid. And they brought in a New York city, forensic. One of those guys that does the deep dive on the feature. So what do you call that? No, I got you.

Yeah, facial recognition. Facial recognition, thank you. So this guy said, without knowing what he was looking at. Actually went there. He said, that's the same guy. He says, what percentage? He says, nice. 99% that's the same guy.

So can you give, without a look, your cameras are not up yet, but you do have locations, you're trying to scout, I imagine. We started scouting locations in January. Then we had the LA fires, raced back for that. And it just went back a couple weeks ago. Met with the governor, secured the tax credit, scouted a bunch of Indian pueblos, which are going to suit our purposes for a lot of the shooting.

And we just brought on a casting director, wonderful cash writer I work with now and very respected, probably the top three casting directors in Illinois named Mary Vernue, Betty May, you know her. She's amazing, and her team's awesome. And so, of course, I just got my cast list the night before I arrived here. So tonight, tomorrow morning, I'm going through those and start putting together who I think are our candidates. So back at Young Guns, too, sadly, between those first two films, most everyone was killed off. That's right. No, that's right. But Lou has been talking about it.

Right. Lou returns. Christian Slater returns. We didn't see either of them die on camera. We certainly didn't see Billy the kid dying camera. And if you want to continue the narrative of the Brushy Bill story, there are, there's a potential for three, four and five. Whether I'm in the other, the next installment or not is, but I already have an idea for what that is, for what four is. but has Bon Jovi been contacted is not allowed to say that's all I can say would you like to have him contribute in some way I'm not allowed to say I think you just said something and John is John has remained a friend

and and he's very enthusiastic about being involved with this very enthusiastic now with all due respect the title you're a young man still you're young at heart right what's it called Young Guns three, dead or alive. So it begs the question, is he dead? Is he alive? Right. It also tucks into John Song, one, a dead or alive. So there's that little Easter egg. But it does center on a bunch of new regulators, mostly Latino, indigenous people.

And it takes place, most of the film takes place in Mexico. Yeah. And it falls on the eve of the Mexican Revolution. So you have a young Pancho Villa who was 28 at the time. You have his group of soldiers, true believers and revolutionaries, who were all kids. You had a human trafficking ring going on on the border. He was taking kids from the pueblos and consigning him to his army. They were grabbing kids off the orphan train.

And there was a whole cabal of people, the Germans, were there. There's so much history that was going on on the border. And then, of course, during the Mexican Revolution, the Germans were funding Pancho Villa because the Americans were just, they were not interested. They looked down their nose at McDonald's. So the Germans were, you know, provided gold and arms and they were also spying on America. This was also right, you know, a few years before World War I. So all of this is happening south of the border. And Billy the kid meets Pancho Villa, and he is asked to come along and train his young men. So that's basically the story.

So I become the Tunstall character in many ways and bring this group of young, mostly Latino, young men through their paces, and then all hell breaks loose. And so the setup is great. The setup is a lot of fun. I have a long history of talking to actors about these kind of dream legacy projects like Bill and Ted 3. I feel like I was talking to Alex and Keanu for 10 years. So I'm hoping we can push this to the finish line because clearly there's a passion there. Clearly there's a will, there's a way.

And it's a big Latino cast, big indigenous people cast without feeling like it's, it feels natural. It doesn't feel like it's, oh God, you know, they made the woke version of, yeah, right, right, right. young guns, this is natural. This is organic to what was happening at the time. So that's exciting for me. Well, it's exciting to see you're excited about it. That's the most important thing. And there's so many great Hispanic Latino actors right now. You've got Anthony Ramos and you've got this kid from reservation dogs. I think we were talking about that yesterday, DeFarro Winnatai. And so there's this great pool. Untapped talent that's, yeah. guys that are going to be really exciting to see your cast in this movie.

All right. I'll be visiting you on sets. It would be amazing. Please. I mean, no, please. Be great. Will you indulge me? I'm going to throw out a few random movies from the career.

I want to just like hear some like what you think of. There's some infamous ones. Okay. Maximum overdrive. So Stephen King famously has said he was coked out of his mind. He was a madman. Did you know he was having issues? The only time that that that became.

became apparent for me. And I don't think Stephen would be mad if I told this story. But I didn't know how bad it was. There was one day we were shooting and I was probably from me to the camera. And he had this enormous tumbler that he'd been working his way through the entire shoot. And I never paid any attention to it. It's one of those sort of that, that, that, uh, Well, you know, the old plastic tumblers that, you know, our parents probably had, you know, filled with booze and we didn't know. Right. Well, his was, too. And being this far away, I actually smelled the booze. I thought, oh, no. Is that Stevens Cup? Is that what's going on here?

And then I saw the film. I thought, well, of course. He was impaired. He was. He's embarrassed by the film. Yeah. He wrote me a letter years later. is I hope you're not I hope you forgive me

in truth and with the advent of you know more computer technology and AI and all of that I started to imagine what a sequel to maximum overdrive would look like and during the strike I wrote one I know I know you would think

I wrote you're going through something this is like therapy this is like Josh, I also wrote Mighty Debt's 4. What? You can't, because I wanted to make up for all of the disasters that happened on the Game Changer series.

A feature script? A feature script, yes, that had Coach Bombay coming back, being pulled back in by Josh Jackson's character and Kenan Thompson's character and to coach

a new team, an expansion team for the professional women's hockey league. So it would be an all-girl team. Now, when we discover Bombay, he's coaching roller derby. And so he says, my girls are going with me.

They have to have a shot. And it was charming and contemporary and cool and again, organically of the moment. Yeah. So where are we at? What's going on? It's where we're at. And Disney was like, we don't want to pursue that.

And the maximum overdrive? don't have the rights to any of this right this was these were just sort of I started I started a I started page one started an idea and like now I'm on page 10 I'm on page 20 now it's 50 pages and I can't stop and Dino de Lorenis hones the rights to maximum overdrive I I created an insane world that takes place in a diner so Bill if you remember the movie yeah and if you do I'm sorry it's a terrible movie yeah yeah but he was a shorter a cook so now in the movie it opened with, he's got his own diners, he's got a young daughter, he's got his crew, his people,

and Guy Fierry is coming to do diners, drive-ins, and dives on the day the world falls apart. And machines turn on it. And it was a cool idea. It's a bitch in script, man. And DeLorenis was like, nope, we have the rights to this. We're not going to pursue our own thing. I was like, okay. So there are two huge opportunities.

These feel like, no-brainers. I mean, Disney not saying. Thank you. Thank you. Can you look at the camera and say that? I'm on the record. Greenlight these. I mean, a Mighty Duck sequel drawing you and Joshua in,

Disney's leaving money on the table. That's just insane. I agree. And Keenan, who arguably the funniest man on television right now, it's like, guys, what are you doing? And we can make all of these movies for a price. Again, I don't normally, I don't get a lot of money to make my films. I make them on a shoestring.

So, you know, start talking about $25, $30 million, but just still a bargain by industry standards. Yeah, no. Have you written the Free Jack sequel yet? That's all that's left. That one I'm actually going to leave alone. I'm going to leave alone. What happened?

Give me the one-minute version of what the hell happened on Free Jack. So Ron Choucette, who had written Total Recall, I wrote the script, and Morgan Creek green lit it, and they brought on Jeff Murphy, who I had worked with in Youngheads, too. And Jeff, God rest him, he's passed now. but he had done Quiet Earth, which was a sensation in New Zealand. So he fancied himself of science fiction aficionado. And they went about

to deconstruct the script and took all the action out. They made it more of a character-driven piece, which is, you know, again, in my wheelhouse, I like that. They screened the movie for Morgan Creek, and the head of Morgan Creek, Jim Robinson says,

where's all the action? Go back and shoot some action. She went back to Atlanta, back to New York, not small, not as small feet by any stretch of the imagination. We reshoot all this action. We inserted in the movie, and that was that. However, it was cool to be on set with Anthony Hopkins. Mick Jagger. Mick Jagger was like, you know, it's like, hey, man, what are we getting?

It's like, come on, let's go and look at, go see a band tonight. Of course. I'm not going to not say yes to Mick Jagger, go out and see a band. So it was cool for that. Rennier-Rousseau was amazing. David Johansson. So we had a great cast. And again, we just, the best intentions, man.

It's hard to make a great movie. As you well know, it's really hard. It's easy to make a bad one. Very easy. We see it every day, unfortunately. But I think when you get complacent, when you get sloppy, when you think you know it all, or you think you know what the audience wants is when you get screwed. Because the taste change.

Yeah. From when you make the movie to when it's released. So I think we really, we had something starting out that just went horribly wrong, unfortunately. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety

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He's gone. No, and that was a great experience. At that opening 20 minutes is amazing, I mean, killing... And that's how Tom framed it. He said, look, we're going to have all these well-known people. It's going to be you, a dead, and we're going to kill all of us. That's cool. And DiPama, you had a diploma experience.

Come on. Yes. I'm a pretty dry guy, pretty humorless guy. And so I showed up on set every day. I said, how can I make Brian laugh? How can I get that smile? That's the challenge. How can I do that?

And Steve Bureham, who I'd worked with on St. Elmo's Fire and the outsiders, the DP, was shooting Mission Impossible. And here I go from these sort of small, more intimate movies, to this enormous potential franchise. Nobody knew at the time, but you could, De Palma and Burum, and they got all these massive sets. and I think there was one day where they got 11 shots and they were high-fiving. I thought, 11 shots. I get 11 shots before 9 a.m.

What are you talking about? It's a different thing. 11 shots? Come on, man. So it was a great experience. But for the short time that I was there shooting with Tom and the Mission Impossible crew, I was there a month. Then George Lucas saw,

the movie. Brian's screened from him and George says, where's your spaghetti scene? I don't know if you've read about this. I haven't. So he said, where's your spaghetti scene and Palm said, what do you mean? So you know, the spaghetti scene where the crew's sitting around, they're eating pasta and they're all talking about what's going to happen next. We get to

know them over spaghetti. It doesn't have to be spaghetti, but that's just sort of a... Oh, and that becomes the flashbacks later in the film. No, that becomes the opening that was not there. Which is great. We all see each other and it's the red light. Greenlight and it's all. So, yeah. So, yeah. We went back to shoot, and I had grown my hair eyes for an indie film that I was going to call The War at Home.

They said, we need you to come back. And I said, but I'm growing my hair out. My hair was buzzed and put you in a wig. And they did. If you look closely. Now I'm going to go back. I've only seen that movie 20 times. Right.

One more time. Which is probably why. No, you probably couldn't tell because of the hair thing, the bandana that I used. There you go. for the last of it, my last, my last moment on filming that. But they could have brought me back with the masks, right? Of course. I could have been the villain in part of it.

I'm still holding out hope. The series isn't over yet. The final one looks insane. Looks insane. The trailer's mad. What they've done with that. That's as good as you can operate in that realm of filmmaking. They've cracked the code.

Indeed. Indeed. J.J. Abrams, right. He took it to the next level, too, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're directing work, which we've alluded to throughout.

Look, even during the panel yesterday, it must have been heartening, like, in this amazing breakfast club moment. I think a couple questions from the audience about the public. Right. Two librarians in the audience who stood up and said, thank you for making the film. I'm sorry. No, I was just going to say. Just like the shelf life of these small passion projects, I mean, from Bobby was like calling

in every favor friend, you know, I don't know, selling art work. the coolest movie in Hollywood to be a part of. And once, like, Hopkins came on and Macy came on, and Sharon Stone was like, how do I be a part of this? Elijah Wood, who was just here at the convention. But to see the shelf life of these things, the way has this amazing long tail. The release has been amazing.

Yeah. We're just now starting to make a little money on it. As the creators of the film, and all the money went elsewhere. So we're just now starting to pull some of our own, you know, money in on that, which is great. Did working with your dad in that way, I mean, you've worked with your dad a number of times,

but like, does that change the relationship? Did that experience of working so closely, him in a leading role, directing him? Well, my dad, it was his idea to make the film, to make it in Spain, but he had a very clear idea of the movie he wanted to make. He wanted to be devoutly Catholic, like he is. And I said, look, man, this movie has to appeal to everyone. I can't make a Catholic movie. movie. I'm not a practicing Catholic. So I can't make that movie. And if that's the movie you want to

make, I'm the wrong guy for it. And my dad has a way of saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. I got you kid. But then we're on set. And he says, we got in some fights. He says, you don't understand because you're not Catholic. I said, but I'm a filmmaker. And so it was interesting. We got to a place where we understood each other. And I gave him enough of what he wanted. And he gave him. And he gave me the space to create the film that I thought would be more universally accepted. Right. And it was. And we took that film, not only just our pilgrimage across Spain to make the film, but we took a pilgrimage across America to sell the film. Right. We shrink-wrapped the bus with a poster. We did 50 days on the road, sleeping in this bus, traveling in this bus, 35 cities, took the movie to the people, did, you know,

We'd be in Kansas City. We'd be in the Twin Cities. And we'd do on camera, in studio, local news channels. And we did it all. And we did it for free. And I think at the end of the day, we're now, to your point, starting to reap those dividends. However, when I come to something like a Comic Con or C2,

and it's like they want to pay. you for being here and it's like it feels there's just something about it that feels yeah i'm struggling for the word no this is the central conflict i think of your career we kind of we've been alluded to the whole time i didn't get in this business to be famous yeah or to be rich yeah i didn't care about either yeah i just didn't care yeah and i i i would you know i'm driving across the country as i did i drove to four and a half days to get here i'm driving through this farmland i'm thinking You know? I can be a farmer. I can be a farmer. There's, you know, of course, it's the weather and, okay, well, what are the, the, the comps? It's like to Hollywood versus being a farmer. It's like, okay, you're dependent on the weather. You're dependent on the studio. You're dependent on your crops, you know, being healthy and, you know, raising them to where you can get them to market. Well, it's the same thing with the movie. Yeah. Right? Script. But by the same token, there's something. really kind of and maybe I'm just romanticizing it but because I'm sure every farmer would tell you

it's a hard life and it is and I know that I grow enough of my own food to know that but um I don't know I sort of got I'm all over the place here but I think that I didn't I didn't do it for money I didn't do it for the fame I didn't do it for recognition yeah and I think that's why it was so uncomfortable to come to these things and be recognized In my opinion, there's no movie, there's no crops, you know, there's no bushel of corn to sort of put to market. There's no film to screen, and we can have a Q&A about it after the fact and talk about what we just saw. This is just, this is commerce. And the commerce part of it, the business part of show business, is something that I've never been comfortable with.

But it's interesting. I mean, look, as we wrap up, like thinking about the macro of your career, I mean, talking about your dad and this, like, like, infamously, this man who has made his life as much about social justice as the art. Without question. And you have, you've truly carried on that legacy. If you look at the films that you're directing, it must, like, I'm sure he, I'm sure he loves his entire family, all his children, but to see, like, you specifically carry on that kind of legacy through your film work and what you've prioritized in your life, that's meaningful.

Yeah, I mean, it is, it is. And I think that, you know, the old joke is, well, they'll bury you with all of your movies. right um and so congratulations for that um but i think that a lot of people say and whether whether it's true for them or not i can't answer but people say um you know your family's most important your family is what we do this for your kids you know but think about every obituary you've ever read where does the family come last at the very end it's like he has survived by that's it Yeah. It's your body of work.

It's your accomplishments first. Yeah. And then your family. So do we really believe that? Or have we left it to the writers of the obituaries to determine that what our legacy ultimately is? And so I believe that the work that I leave behind is the most important thing I do. Yeah. When I work on a house, if I build a house, I'm not building it with materials that I don't,

think are going to outlast me sometimes they're more expensive sometimes I take more time to to work with but I'm thinking this place will still be here 50 years from now the building that I rehabbed in Cincinnati is already 150 years old what what what we've done to it to rehab it I think has will preserve it for another 150 years yeah so I'm thinking along those lines that these are the sort of films whether it's the breakfast club or the public or the way that continue to inspire long after I'm gone and that's at the top of the obit along probably with Brad Packer unfortunately it's yeah you know just leave the free jack

out of the obit we don't need that thank you thank you will you write my obit yeah all right got you we're gonna end with this the happy say i confused profoundly random questions a little bit more random stuff for you um are you a dog or a cat guy dog yeah currently don't have one right currently on the hunt yeah i'm trying to will that in existence for you And it may be a pit bull. After all of a sudden, then it may be. Or a pit bull mix. Yeah, that's ours.

That's ours. Jackie was wondering if you were going to bring yours today. I would have if I could have. I'll bring her to set. Okay, good. What do you collect, if anything? Dust. Unfortunately.

I used to collect art, but then I have a feeling about, mixed feelings about collecting art. I don't think art should be personally owned and not shared with the public, almost like a film. It's like, okay, you're going to make this movie, and then you're going to keep it in your house and no one's ever going to see it. But I do like having pieces on the wall

that are stories that are reflected in a single frame because 24 frames per second, 10,000 feet of film to tell, that's what I need to tell a story. That an artist, a painter, fine artists, can do it in one frame on a piece of canvas, which is how we project most of them, how we used to anyway, is extraordinary to me.

So I have an appreciation for art, and I used to collect it. Okay. Yeah. Were you ever a video game guy back in the arcade date? No favorite video game? No favorite video. We'll pass on that one. What's the wallpaper on your phone, the background on your phone screen?

It's a picture of my girlfriend. And a ham all in leg. Fair enough. Last actor you were mistaken for? Michael J. Fox. And Michael Douglas. And who else was I mistaken? All over the place, yeah.

Charlie Sheen. There is some genetic linkage there. We can excuse that one. Right. What's the worst noted director has ever given you? Have a good fucking time. Screaming at the top of his lungs. Oh, here's looking at you, Joel Schumacher.

Oh, no. Say Elmo? Say, no, is fine. So to go from John Hughes, who was collaborative, who was a mentor in many ways, who was calm, listened to Joel, who was wildly insecure and was a nightmare on set. No kidding. And was a bully.

And to have that happen in the same year was, and I vowed never to speak to my actors that way if I ever got a chance to direct in 1984, I thought, this is the best lesson. a young actor who wants to direct could ever get. Thank you, Joel. What a shame. It's funny because I've heard those stories also relation to like the Batman film he directed with Vow and you hear about Vow and now this color is my thinking of there might have been two to tango to make that.

There may have been, you know, Joel may have met his match with Val. I don't know. In the spirit of Happy Second Fuse, who's an actor that always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're immediately happier. Gosh. I love that I like John Ham

I love John. I love I'll watch John and I love watching him on the host Saturday Night Live which you just did again he's so he's just painfully handsome and yet he's also wonderfully self-effacing

and hilarious and and doesn't pull any stops when it comes to poking fun at himself doesn't take himself too seriously on 30 Roth. was epic a movie that makes you sad god sad sad sad huh i mean i cry over commercials and you watch commercials and just start weeping

why am i crying over this commercial what's during covid yeah but um do you go uh yeah I mean, from a classic against a wonderful life to like terms of endearment to a Pixar movie to a cinema paradiso comes up, I don't know. What if I cried at recently? Can you remember something we've watched and I start weeping it? Yeah, a movie.

Oh, shit. Yeah, I can't watch the way. It's not, and not cry. It's like, who made this movie? Why are you doing this to me? Why? It's so weird. That's bizarre.

And it happened at every single. single screening. Yeah. We've these screens, you know, again, well, like I said, we took that movie out on the road and there's the first, even the first couple of cuts, I screened for a bunch of Pepperdine students and I'm sitting in the back, these are college students and they're like enjoying it and opening credits, I'm just like, weeping. Love it.

Yeah, I hope that doesn't sound too self-serving. No, no, no. And finally, most importantly, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that? Oh my God. God, there are some foods, there are some, I guess we can call them restaurants, in Korea Town in Los Angeles.

There was one where there was cotton candy with frozen yogurt and lucky charms in it. No, no. This exists. And I thought, why? Why? What drug was taken to get to that place where you said, this is a good idea? Yeah. It feels like Stephen King on Maximum Overdrive came up with that one. Totally. What if we had this? Exactly. Exactly. That is so funny.

Man, I so appreciate the trust you put in me for both that amazing panel yesterday, which was a true moment in time to be a small part of. It was amazing. And to have this kind of conversation is really meaningful. Thank you. You meant a lot to my film love over the years. And if we can help 1% make some of these passion projects happen, I'll be a happy guy. Thank you, man. We've got it green light, young guns, we're going to make it happen.

Guns three is going to happen. That will definitely happen. But let's not leave out the Mighty Ducks or even Maximum Overdrive. I'm here for all of it. And as silly as Maximum Overdrive is and was, maximum two is not. It's cool. It's so cool. Would you want to direct that one?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because why not? Why not? Why not just keep on more, more? It feels like you're in a really cool place where you have found a way to kind of reckon with the past and the kind of like things that maybe scarred you

in some ways as a young actor and didn't feel fulfilling creatively. It's really good to see you now. I'm embracing it rather than saying, hey man, that's not me anymore. Turn it into a good, yeah. I kind of have to embrace sort of what's happening in our business and you can push back all you like,

but at the end of the day, the wave is going to take you under. Totally. And so I've got to figure out how to search it. You're riding the wave. Exactly. You're making it your own. Well, thank you again for the time today.

A real pleasure. Thank you, man. Thanks, you. All right. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh.

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