Happy Sad Confused - Emma D'Arcy

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

Emma D'Arcy was a revelation to many for their performance in HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. And now in their first podcast chat ever(!) Emma opens about their journey from theater to the absolute center of culture, navigating being a gender non-conforming actor, and why all they want is a sword next season! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Have you done much of this kind of thing before? No. You know what's funny, Josh? I've never even done the House of the Dragon podcast. I've never been there. I am humbly, very honored. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

I'm Josh Horowitz. And today on Happy, Sad, Confused. Emma Darcy is here. If you're like me, you watched. House of the Dragon with great anticipation with actors like Matt Smith, Reziphons, and Olivia Cook. You knew that you were in good hands, but it is the revelation that is Emma Darcy as Ranira who has mesmerized so many of us. I'm so thrilled that Emma is with me today. It's a little late where Emma is, but I thank you. How's it going? Yeah, so good. Yeah, no, it's late here.

So by comparison, your life looks very well organized. And as I look at my little picture of myself. It looks like I'm shooting a video diary in like a 90s horror film. Yeah, it's kind of video, yeah, horror film slash hostage video. Yeah. Exactly, like, you know,

if any of my family are watching. Yeah, let a hold up a newspaper. Emma is okay. Yeah, exactly. Today, 26 November, 24. Exactly, exactly. So I am catching you a little late, so I thank you for that.

And also coming off a lot of work. It seems like, did you basically do two plays essentially back-to-back over Back Home? Yeah, I did the double, as Matt McLeoddard. I did the double. No, very nice. It turns out all I needed in order to have a theater career was to do a show about Dragons on HBO.

So anyway, here we are. I've come home to the stage. No, yeah, it's been really busy. It wasn't sort of intentional. This was supposed to be the fallow period before we go and shoot more stuff. But I feel really fortunate. Theatre was like such a foundational space for me. And it had been such a long time since I hadn't been on stage since sort of pre-pandemic.

And it suddenly became something that had fear in it again, which was such a new idea. Like, even sort of starting out, I don't know why. I think because when I was making bits of theatre with friends, I was often doing, you're playing, you're doing multiple jobs within the sort of theatrical object at once.

And so there's not like loads of time to sort of ruminate on the idea of going on stage. It's sort of very haphazard. But, yeah, for the first time, sort of earlier this year, I noticed that the idea felt a bit frightening. And I worried that I was, would have to change the sort of biography I give about myself, about how sort of state is my

home. And that felt like a huge amount of effort. So I thought I better go and check that it still applies. And the check mark applause, you acclimated, you got back into the rhythms. Yeah. Yeah. It turns out I still really like it. I mean, one significant difference, though, as you will know, is, I mean, the eyeballs are now on you. I mean, more so than ever. Did you, did you feel that? Was that palpable, you know, at the dressing room doors, et cetera, or on stage, do you feel a little bit of a different energy thanks to what House of the Dragon has brought you? Yeah, you know, I suppose that was different, and I didn't anticipate it. There seems to be a theme, sort of not anticipating the thing until it's happening.

But, yeah, the context in which I was on stage had changed. I suppose it was definitely my first experience of I'd never done the stage door thing you know I'd never like had that experience before and yeah and I had never it's a different type of pressure I suppose I understand better the sort of freedom that you have kind of early in your career because the stakes feel high

but really the stakes are low and yeah I think I was maybe fortunate The first of the two productions I was just part of was with an amazing practitioner called Katie Mitchell and her work is sort of so specific, so kind of exacting in its form that there's actually, there's not that room, that much room, there's not that much wiggle room as a performer. So I was very much there as potty for Katie as opposed to any other sort of facility. Right. Yeah. But I think I've always, found that I gain a feeling, I gain some sort of power in the conversation that happens

sort of on stage between an actor and an audience. So even though it was frightening, I was happy to discover that I had the same sensation of kind of growing rather than shrinking when the curtain comes up. What were, when you think back to growing up, what were the first theatrical performances you went to that maybe rocked your world? Are there any that jump out? You know what? Well, like Panto, actually, is a big, it's a big cultural event in this country, and we went to Panto, and I really like that a lot. Actually, my mom used to, like, child mind, a friend of mine and her sister, and my mom would be paid in theater tokens.

That was what she asked for. We didn't have like a load of cash, but I think my mum wanted to be able to do that stuff. And so this sort of after-school work that she did allowed us to go and see stuff. Yeah, Panto is the big one that brings. If you will indulge me, I do want to go back because, and here's what I discovered, Emma, as I was doing some research.

And usually it's the other way around where, like, I do an interview with somebody and I'm like, oh, my God, they've done 300 podcasts there's nothing left to talk about emma have you done much of this kind of thing before no you know what's funny josh i've never even done i've never done the house of the dragon podcast i've never been i got you before house of the i am humbly very honored um well i i'm going to make this as easy and painless as possible i appreciate the trust uh very Foolish, very foolish. But no, but look, I love this stuff and I love talking about movies, film, and theater. So you're in good hands, I promise. But so yeah, so we talk about theater love growing up. Were you, I mean, it sounded like your parents were both interested in the arts. Had had a lot of love for the arts, even though their careers weren't necessarily directly in the stuff that you ended up doing. Was film and TV very much in the household, music, theater, the arts, everywhere, or did you find it on your own? Yeah. Do you know, my dad was, yeah, maybe not a cinephile, but like, he was a big lover of science fiction, actually, particularly, and that's something that he passed on to me.

I think a nice thing maybe about being of my generation is that, like, I didn't have, like, a super broad access. I had my VHS collection. So instead of sort of breadth, you have a culture of rewatching, right? And so... Right. Obsessibly. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I don't know, things that come to mind are like 2001, a space odyssey. Sure. Close encounters of the same kind. Like, those were sort of seminal, foundational works of my childhood that came from my dad.

And yeah, I think, like, me and my sibling were really fortunate in that we grew up in a household where Actually, like, particularly sort of visual art was really valued and there was a sort of cupboard full of bits of card and things that could be stuck to other things. And we were encouraged to do that, you know, to draw and to stick things down. And I'm always, like, really struck, like, I knew that the idea of, like, the artist was valued in my household. and I sort of knew that we didn't have much cash but the thing that, yeah, the thing that was sort of heralded was this sort of idea of the artist and I'm always really amazed when I meet people

who, you know, who are artists who have a sort of deeply artistic sensibility but for whom that wasn't part of the value system because they had to really seek it out, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and like what sort of opened that? what because you know in a way I I followed the formula you know I yeah I did as I was told actually it does sound like from from what I've read like you kind of did find your own path in that while fine arts was rewarding it sounds like what you discovered and correct me if I'm wrong

is you really gravitated towards collaboration and not wanting to kind of like silo off and work on your own thing but like what you got off on was working with other folks and when did that if that's true when did that happen for you yeah i think that's totally true um i think at first started happening so i did like an art foundation after i was at school and that was amazing it allowed me to have a second shot at building a personality it was really a sort of saving grace in my teenage years and um and when i was there i was really fortunate and i met some really interesting people and it was sort of my first experience of making work uh as a little sort of collective of artists and

And that sort of delicious cross-fertilization of ideas between peers. And then when I, and it's a funny thing. Like when you're sort of studying art, which is like in itself quite a weird proposition, like what are you doing? Like it's sometimes it's hard to say. But you're in a sort of communal environment, right? And you're in like a shared studio space or whatever. And like I loved that.

And I was lucky we, I did some sort of. like more like performance art stuff with like some other artists and but I could see that that's that that isn't the model the industry is not really set up for that and yeah as you say I just I don't have the I didn't get the obsessive gene like if you put me in a room I don't I don't sort of make for the short for the like sure the like share need to to sort of produce. I don't have that, like, my dad had that actually. And so I sort of know that I'm not obsessive in that way. And I need to be held to account. And so I, yeah, but I think like working collaboratively has always been a bit of a drug to me. Yeah. I like the sense of

kind of losing the individual within the sort of collective aim. And it's what you, we wish for everybody right is to find to find your tribe to find folks that that make you feel less weird less of the outcast you you can't be the weirdo if there are 10 other weirdos with you that are also into this crazy endeavor um we all feel a little less alone when we find like-minded folks and that's the beauty i think of any great you know artistic endeavor um so who were you who were you in high school like were you did you have a did you have a club did you have a tribe at all or not really No. Sorry, this is, it's okay, right, because I feel the tragedy is now concluded, but we can now laugh at it. We can now smile at it. Yeah, but really my, my like high school

period was a was a kind of fundamental car crash. It was the really sort of, it was okay though. It's fine. You know, it's a formative experience. Honestly, I would, I would. would probably have bullied me. No, but the problem is like... So some people, I've been slow to just state at every stage. And like, for example, I sort of, like the last year, just before I went to high school, I was still sort of playing imaginary games and no one told me that you must not do that

when you cross the threshold into high school. You know, so it's like, it's like, It's these things. It's these small pieces of knowledge that can be so definitive in one's life. Anyway, no, so I didn't really have a tribe or even a personality during high school. Emma, I don't, I see a personality in front of me. I don't believe it. What do you mean?

No, no, it's true. I just, yeah, it just, no, it just went into hiding for seven years. But then it was okay, but then as I say, it was okay because I am. I went and did a foundation. And yeah, and I, like, I was good at art, and that stood in for a personality for seven years. And then, and then I got a second short. And not everyone does.

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yeah it wasn't like a it wasn't like a sort of clear destination that I was sort of driving towards after I left university I was kind of committed to theatre and was sort of just trying to do that for as long as I can get away with it And I think I had to work out what it meant to be a gender non-conforming person who wanted to also act. And I briefly thought, and again, not in a particularly sort of regretful way even, I thought, oh, that you can't have both. You sort of have to choose.

And I sort of didn't mind that because I'm a sort of closeted workaholic. So at the time, I sort of felt it felt like a clear. Yeah, it felt like a sort of necessary evil of something that I, from which I derived a lot of joy. I don't know. So do you feel like at that time, in those early years, you're, I mean, are you leading a split? You're not hiding anything, but you are leading a different kind of identity for the purpose of, I don't know, making folks comfortable or what? I mean, I get it. It's a confusing, these things have shifted very quickly in the last few years.

and I can only imagine. I was quite like slow to the language. Also, it's not like I could explain myself. You know, like for a long time I couldn't explain myself. And I suppose when I joke about having no personality in high school, like probably the beginning of a battle was taking place that again I had no language for. And in some way, like, I couldn't help but mark myself out.

It was by accident. But some of that internal warfare was presenting itself. And that didn't help in the process of making, you know, finding a tribe, as you put it. But, but, and then in my like sort of, yeah, like early 20s, I was, it was only then, it was only after I left university that sort of language started to reach me that felt applicable to the experience that had been playing itself out for the sort of previous 10 years. Um, and longer. Um, I had like a, I think in the process of trying to get an agent, which is what I understood one had to do if one wanted to be an act. And although I wasn't maybe admitting allowed that that's what I wanted to do, I sort of, you know, like somewhere in the private corner of my psyche, that was a sort of quiet ambition.

And I think in the process of that, I began presenting in a way that was more feminine, sort of for the first time. I mean, not particularly extreme, but I sort of grew my hair. And like, I had the markers of a woman actor. And then I did get an agent, and that was great. And I suddenly had this panic that I had, I'd like misled him and that I had fettered myself to something I couldn't live as. And I had a real sort of meltdown about it,

and I didn't know what to do because I thought I duped this lovely man and possibly got both what I wanted and didn't want simultaneously. And yeah, and I just didn't know how to navigate it. And at that time, it wasn't clear that, I mean, it's so strange, right? Because my job is, transformation is built into what we do. Literally, yes. Quite literally. And I don't think there's any surprise in the fact that the job I do allowed me to sort of run away from myself in some aspect a lot of the time.

Maybe my broad, my gestation period in my life has been longer because I've spent like periods of it as other people. You know, like, but yeah, and the industry remains and certainly was at the start of my career pretty conservative when it comes to casting. And actually, like, weirdly, there's sometimes I think a slight imaginative failure when it comes to. casting. Like, actually, we have such extraordinary technology and sort of hair, makeup, and costume for transformation. It needn't feel like an obstacle, and yet, for like many reasons. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been like an amazing period of learning that you can have both and that you can live in the gaps in a way that is, you know, comfortable and satisfying. And, And also go and do your work and, yeah.

So when House of the Dragon happens for you and you actually get the role, do they bring up, how would you like to identify? Like, I mean, is that something you brokered with them? Is that a touchy, I mean, it's a touchy thing to discuss. And this is a big moment in your life and career for a thousand different reasons. Can you take me through the thought process of like, this is the time to shift professionally? Yeah. So as you say, so, I had prior to that, I had, I had separated my sort of personal and professional selves and, you know, for many reasons. But yeah, actually it was, it was HBO that came to us.

And I think part of that was, you know, in a very, very small way. I think there was some evidence of my, like, gender identity, like sort of on the internet or whatever. But they came to me and said, you know, at the point at which we start. you know, releasing press packets about this show and stuff. How do you want to be referred to? And I did really think about it, but I think I worried about repeating this moment of feeling like I'd imprisoned myself with my agent again,

in a sort of far more public forum. And at the time, it felt like I was making a decision with potential sort of ramifications that I couldn't yet understand. Like if I were to make a similar, if I would have to make a similar decision now, I would have a much better sense of the parameters of something like that. But at the time, I just, I didn't have a profile. Like, I just, um, couldn't really, knew something big was happening.

But, like, it's hard to actually wrap your brain around what's coming, I'm sure. Yeah. Totally. Um, yeah. And so, but then, yeah. So then we just said, yeah. And then rather than being two people, I was one person, just like that. Amazing.

Um, and. Yeah, I feel very fortunate. I feel very fortunate to have, I guess, come into all of this at the point that I did because actually a few years previously, the conversation would have been completely different. Right. Or non-existent, or I would have had to have a sort of formal sit down

with everyone, you know, later. Like, I don't really, that's not really like my way, but I think I was very lucky with the timing. So let's dig into the substance of the show and this amazing character. As I understand it, you are auditioning, you're in the process, and you come up with a pro and con list. Is this true? Is this accurate? Can you give me a little peek? What are a couple of the pros, a couple of the cons?

And did they come to pass or not come to pass? Well, so the big con, as I remember, it was like loss of anonymity. because I'm like a big, a deeply introverted person. You're in your bunker. You're in your hostage bunker. We see. Exactly. Exactly.

What are the cons? Like, oh, like, like, I didn't really know if this was something I could do. That's a big one. Can I actually do the thing? Can I do the thing? And if I can't, I'm going to. find out with like a lot of other people at the same time and that feels like it feels like quite a harsh environment in which to fail and and not even like I think failure is a really important

part of one's practice it's just I would have chosen sort of the very most sort of public forum in which to do that um yeah I yeah I worried about this sort of stuff about like the having to be yourself self bit like I've always felt a lot more comfortable as other people. And I think that's like a kind of interesting paradox about the like requirements of the contemporary actor. Like so many of us have health, unhealthily sort of run away from our own discomfort

by playing other people. And now we're brought out to, I don't know, present ourselves. I just had literally this entire, Paul Meskell just did the podcast at the end of an insane press tour for Gladiator 2. And he was so, it was actually a fantastic conversation because it was all about this. It was like this push and pull. And you know from his work, like what he gravitates towards.

And he's a true artist. And it's like, but he did the hot ones. He did the puppies. He did it all. And he's just, he's wrestling with it in real time. And you all are. And it's kind of a fascinating push and pull. Unless your name is Leonardo DiCaprio,

you kind of have to play the game a little bit. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. It is crazy and it takes a really long time to have any understanding of the parameters of the game. I think this is the thing that makes it quite like in turn sort of frightening and absurd. I hope Paul's all right. I can't really imagine the scale, the intensity, the requirement. I hope, I think something that I've thought more recently is.

that it's very important to contextualize that stuff as work because sometimes, especially the event side of that thing, it's sort of presented as, I don't know, like sort of a social, like event. There's a sort of fetishization of that object. And in fact, it's, you know, it's a marketing tool and that's fine. And I find it really useful to put it back in the right box. because not least because it means it's okay to feel very stressed, you know. Right, right.

One can also do at a party, and I frequently do, but you're talking to a kindred spirit. I was an outcast in high school. I'm outcast at parties. We can hang, Emma. It's okay. Also part of the lore of you taking on this role is I think you broke bread with Amelia Clark, as I understand it. Can you reveal without revealing too much a little bit of what was helpful

to hear from her before you jumped into this crazy endeavor? Yeah, I did break bread with Amelia. She was so generous. It was beautiful, actually. It was such a nice evening. She was incredibly frank. She was super candid.

And her advice was amazing because it was both sort of broad sort of embracing wisdom about like I suppose the sort of the psychic change that one's about to wander go but also like practical stuff like I really remember her saying like

your trailer is your space decorate it use it you know just like tiny things and like you know we talked about the about the practicalities of wearing a wig every day what that does do

your scalp, the issues you're going to have, you know, like, is like really good. The real stuff, yeah. Yeah, yeah, the real stuff. I mean, I feel fortunate because I think, again, we experienced a fraction of the baptism of fire for, without trying to make some sort of Targaryen pan that Amelia went through. but even so I think I suppose it's like this show has a

you enter something with a history that that precedes you right and that's quite a like specific environment to find yourself in and I think I I've felt until just recently like a sort of trepidacious visitor

but I now feel like I sort of got my citizenship. Like maybe I don't know why, but after the second series and that's sort of done. And I feel like, yeah, I feel more confident in my citizenship. You should. I mean, I feel like you could easily delude yourself. And I read something to the effect of this, like the first series, like, oh, I don't come in until halfway after halfway through. I'm not an actual lead of this.

Sorry, Emma. You're the lead, arguably, of this show as much as anyone. So, but yes, it takes time. And look, all of those accoutrements. This is a very unusual job for a thousand different reasons, the lineage, everything about it. I would imagine a lot of the help comes from the company of actors that you're keeping, and I've been privileged enough to get to know some of them. Let's talk about a few, because the internet loves few things more than you and Olivia, as you well know.

Do you remember first impressions? Did you guys connect on a deep level immediately, or did it take some time? How did that relationship develop? Yeah, I feel like a slight scratch record because I do just love her and I loved her, like, immediately. We met, sort of the first time we met both, we met Miguel and Ryan, the showrunners on the first series. They had us over for dinner when we were both cast. And it was the first time that me and Olivia met and I sort of clung to her, I think. like some sort of lichen

I don't know what it is I don't know how we were so fortunate but I just I sort of recognised her and I think maybe she felt the same and it didn't take long to feel to have like a deep sort of shared understanding of her of each other

so weird our job right because like out of nowhere someone walks into your life who becomes fundamentally important and I'm like sort of blown away by that on repeat like it's a kind of miracle and also even like a potential danger of project-based work like this especially as like an actor or a maker or I think any creative who has to come in in a sort of open-hearted way to work collaboratively with others. Like, you just don't know how important someone's going to be. It's like nuts. And Liv is one of the sort of pillars in my life, which is, you know, what a remarkable

thing to happen. Like, shouldn't be allowed. You're allowed. Were you aware of the work? Did you know what shipping was prior to being a part? of this show? Sorry, say that again. Were you aware of the word shipping prior to this show?

The idea, no. This is new for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you get a kick out of it, the folks that project whatever they want to on this relationship on screen that you guys maybe are putting there, maybe aren't putting there? Do you know what?

I realize this is like, it's a depressing way to respond to your question, but I feel that it's not for me and live. You know, like, I appreciate its existence. I don't, I don't, I don't, I leave it well alone. We're like, we're like, we're respectful neighbours. And that feels like the sort of appropriate way to relate to that stuff. That said, like, I love the sort of creativity that comes with a fan base,

like that of Thrones and House of the Dragon. Like, there's so much production going on, peripheral to the show itself. Like, I find that kind of, just like an amazing, I would like to have been part of something like that. As a younger person, for example. Maybe that's where I should have been as a teenager. I'm guessing at the stage door, if you haven't already, you're going to encounter or near a tattoo or two at some point. it has happened yeah that's commitment that's yeah

that's crazy I saw what was mad is I had a tattoo of them of course yeah that you're like not going to believe this but I got one up you I saw our mutual Matt Matt Smith very recently at a one of those crazy near Comic-Con

he is one of the most delightful humans on the planet so talented and he like he likes to play a game with me movie star or actor does he play that with you is matt smith a movie star or an actor what do you think oh oh oh he's an actor but that's that that that for me is like that's that's the highest phrase yeah he was he was he was he complaining up our mutual matt smith yes i know it depends where you punctuate that but our mutual matt smith is so beautiful as a title

That's my fanfic. Was he complaining about the wigs on day one, or did that take a while? Didn't take that long, I would say. Yeah, yeah. But look, the man puts up with a lot. I understand his sword is very heavy also. I actually can't wait to see him. I know that he's recently around.

And, yeah, I haven't seen him. Yeah, he just departed my precious New York. yeah he uh exactly exactly yeah yeah i mean like again another fucking case in point like i um well i love that man and um i have we have a really do you know what we we take our work really seriously and um we have a really i have an amazing time working with him um i've learned such a huge out from him. I mean, this goes for all of the cast, to be honest. But I really think that he is able to create space for himself where there isn't any. Like, you know, sometimes

shooting, especially on something as big as that show with so many sort of technical elements, so many hours, sometimes that can be quite rigid. It can be quite a rigid process or but he understands how important players to our work and I have learned from him to fight for that space or rather than just to take it I suppose and yeah it's amazing it's amazing and it was such a joy for me to learn to sort of watch him and learn

what kind of excites him and what like sort of lights up his um his appetite and his sort of his imagination and um it's so nice like he he loves he loves something new like just say anything say anything on a take that's new and um and he's just yeah and where there's some danger in it like i feel like we're able to well we both maybe have a have an appetite for for something dangerous and Yeah, it's like very exciting. It's a very exciting thing.

He also likes a good 90s erotic thriller, a weirder rabbit hole to go down with Matt Smith. I also, you know what I recently watched? Jane Campion's in the cut. Oh, but yeah, Meg Ryan. Lee bangs. God, that's a good film. Mark Ruffalo?

100%. Yeah. I mean, fucking amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can go down that rabbit hole. Did you lock the front door? Check. Close the garage door?

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Okay, so you're talking about kind of like coming into your own and kind of owning the space a little bit more. And this was quite a journey. Well, coming off of the events of season one, I know you've talked about this, but, but Reneira really dealing with a tremendous amount of grief. Was that kind of the, I don't know, the through line for you, the guiding force of kind of like the evolution of Reneira in season two for you? I think it was. I mean, yeah, the start of the series, I think she is in profound grief.

And grief, like we sort of know this. It can be so dislocating a force. And so I suppose in a way, the journey that she goes on is a really clear one. She has to like, she starts the series as sort of an island. And she has to make a journey back to her father. family, her peers, her allies, in order to reclaim power, to sort of, I guess, you know, fight for her late son's name. Like, it was a really kind of fortuitous, unusual situation for me because I shot the second series, sort of having just had a really significant bereavement.

And it's kind of fascinating to find yourself invited to really ruminate on that loss and on the sort of grieving process that's taking place. But you are sort of simultaneously trying to compartmentalize in some way. You know, it was an interesting experience of both sort of in some moments suppressing. Right. Elving something and then and then long periods of being sort of invited to sit with it. And I would imagine it gets complicated too. It's like I would like be in my own head. It's like, am I using this real profound loss for my job? And is that right? I mean, I guess that is the job. That's truly is the job. So use your life, use all your experiences. But at the same time, when it gets that important and profound, it must. It's complicated. I think it's complicated. I think it's complicated. Yeah, like, I think normally my feeling is that a big part of our,

the main part of our job is pretend. I feel that quite sort of profoundly. And that the most like important muscle for an actor is the imaginative muscle. And that if you are really work, I think we could, I think like, I say this for myself, like, sometimes I think I can be, I have to be strict with myself about kind of working my imagination and not, not being lazy, essentially, but the payoff, if you really do, the sort of imaginative work is that it, I think you can, the resource keeps giving in a way that your own stuff can start to thin or, you're genuinely working on that, right? You're genuinely working on the sort of categorisation of that stuff. But then, I suppose, the unusual thing with grief is that it feels sort of physiological in some way.

You are a different person. You're sort of, you are, you are like a stranger to yourself. Like I was a little dislocated from myself while we were shooting series two, and that wasn't something I could sort of opt out of particularly. But, I mean, at the same time, sort of how lucky are we to get to do a job in which like all of the facets of one life are sort of taking place simultaneously? I don't know, like, you can't not bring it as much as you want to create sort of professional boundaries and stuff. Yeah, but it was just, it was an unusual experience. It's a specific experience for me.

By my math, I think it's been probably about a year since you, you all shot the last season. And it'll be presumably still a bit of a break before you get to series three. I mean, is it the kind of thing like you don't even think about when you're between seasons? Are you thinking about what you're hoping to explore in the next season? Are you checking in with the showrunners? or is it sort of like when they're ready, we'll talk? I would say it's a bit of both. I mean, when I struggle to juggle too many things at once,

and so I've obviously been doing these two theatre productions and they've been very totalizing. And so I've had these like holidays with other characters. But I would say that Reneer is, I would say that Reneera comes in visits. that feels sort of inevitable like I in a nice way I'd never

before House of the Dragon I'd never played a recurring character before and there's something specific about having a sort of operating system that's not mine that's hers that I know very well but I can load up if I need to

yeah I really when we went back to series two and I had like an early wig fitting and I had a really distinct experience of like when they put the wig on and it's such a transformative process right wigs are amazing I think

and so suddenly was I her and sort of recognised this this other person and everything that comes with her I really felt like she had been in Watford the whole time a bit like the kid who the parent doesn't pick up like I had just been remiss and I hadn't come and collect did her? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally. And I was like, so sorry, I'm back, I'm here, blah, blah, blah. And, yeah, I check in with the showrunners, I mean, and the writer Sarah and Ryan. And, I mean, we're lucky because it's a really beautiful group of people. And so that I count them my friends and I, you know, we check in on a personal basis. And, you know, occasionally I'll ask, so. Like, what are we thinking? Any training necessary?

What do I need to get? I mean, are you putting in, are you the type of actor that puts in requests or, like, put a bug in their ear? Like, what are you hoping to explore in series three for? We know war is coming. War is, it's here. So there's that.

The petition I put in is I want a weapon. Like, it's getting ridiculous. I don't even mind if it's like a, like a little dagger, a short sword, but I don't care. I want like, you know, like, you know, Imagine all the men in the show don't have to worry about where they put their hands because they're constantly holding the pommel of their sword. That obviously sounds like innuendo and you can do that where you will, but like that is true.

And all the rest of us are going, where do we put our fucking hands? Anyway, next year, one hand is going to be taken care of. That's what I want. I want a sword. And I've been really clear about that with Ryan and I think that's happening. In terms of like, in terms of like, what happens next, you know, something that struck me recently is like, actually in both series, circumstance means that she's quite often a reactive character. She's in like a reactive position. And at the end of series two is maybe the first time when she is in a sort of superior position, politically.

And so, like, I sort of don't know the answer to the question of what happens when she is in a position of genuine power, not being sort of undermined, left, right and centre by her own counsel, she has the strategic advantage. This is like a really new set of conditions. And I think the thing that we saw towards the end of the second series is a person who, for the first time, had to make a really distinct choice. about her own destiny. Like she inherited the heirdom. There's lots that comes with that. But when this threat enters that perhaps her father changed his mind

on his deathbed about the succession, she's sort of forced to make a choice, right? Because now we're in the world of conjecture and she may think that's unlikely, but if there's any threat that's true, she has to sort of make a decision about what she wants for the first time. And I think that's where we see her suddenly lean towards her faith,

the sort of historical legacy of her family. And there's something kind of fanatical about her behaviour as she sort of takes up her own name. She like ordains herself, I think, toward the end of the second series. And that too, I think, is frightening and all. way that I really like because suddenly, yeah, I think we're in the, we're approaching the realm of fanaticism. And that sort of feels like where faith starts to beget faith. And yeah, I think that becomes quite a sort of frightening character. I want to test the audience's loyalty to even you've engendered all of this goodwill. And now let's let's test that. Let's see what

happens. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder how unsympathetic she can be. I mean, I don't know. I'm not writing the thing, but that's, I'm excited to test those relationships. Well, you can have the dagger. You're going to be stabbing everybody next season. We know that. So you got to be good. Or opening letters. We don't know. You know, what a twist. A very clean tear. Yeah. I know the time is flown by, but I do want to mention the talent, which I saw as well, which is a fantastic short film. you star in. I'm just curious, like, the space you find for something like this, which I believe you produced as well, is this, is the endeavor, like, create something to keep me, you know, keep the juices, the synapses firing, like, how does this one come about? And does it speak to anything about, I mean, I think back to our early part of the conversation about the collaborative nature on set. This is about kind of a set PA assistant kind of overstepping. Just talk to me about what the attraction was and how this one came about. Yeah, so straight out of university, I used to co-run a little fringe data company. That was sort of what I was doing.

That was sort of how I came into, ish, being an actor and sort of working a bit. And then I worked with the director of this short film, and we kind of co-made all of our work, and that was what we did for like three or four or five years. And so this was like the first time in many years that we have worked together, but we're sort of long-term collaborators. Yeah, Thomas May Bailey wrote and directed the short, the talent, and I did a lot of sort of dramaturgy in its development, and I co-produced it with a person called Evan Spence.

And it's good. It feels like getting the band back together. Yeah, and now with some more resources probably and a little more, yeah. Yeah, and look, I mean, this was to some extent it was, experiment. It was our first rodeo in a new medium. Certainly it was my first producerial experience, yeah, in a film it medium as opposed to theatre. But it was a total joy. We shot it just before I shot House the Dragon second series over four days. And I think it's, yeah, I think for us it's the start of like a new creative language.

And I really hope that, oh, I would definitely. like to do more producing. I think something that I really notice is like in theatre, the actor gets to deliver the product, like the sort of line of communication is a direct one. And I found it frustrating that on screen, that's a slightly dislocated process because screen is an editor's medium,

unless you produce the thing, in which case you can see it through all the way to the end. And I do find that a more satisfying process. Yeah. And so it's been lovely. We're having a shot at award season now. It's been amazing actually to discover that something you make kind of, you know, in a small scale way can end up with, you know, sort of global viewership. But it's sort of like that the whole kind of process, the whole industry of short films and even film festivals is kind of brand new to me. But yeah, I'm excited. We're in the movie. We're in the movie business now.

Welcome to it. So the lead actor, Tommy, is trying to ingratiate himself to is looking for a buddy cop actor, co-star. Who's your dream buddy cop co-star in a movie? You're producing your feature film. Yeah. Emma Darcy and Do you know I, without overthinking this, the person I just want to say is

Keanu Reeves. This is the correct answer. Of course it is. It's the correct answer. And you mustn't second guess it. You know, you just, the name comes from the gut and you say it's Keanu Reeves. Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's your Keanu film of choice? Is it all like, give me, rattle off a couple for me? My own private Idaho. like the fucking matrix um john wick john fucking wick um yeah i i yeah man imagine if that was real imagine if that was real a buddy cop movie that's unique yeah just invite me to set if it happens i'm hoping to be secret into the universe something today um yeah yeah absolutely all right we're ending with this the happy say i confused profoundly random questions emma the These are a little bit more rapid fire.

Are you a dog or a cat person? Cat. Do you collect anything? Postcards. What's the wallpaper on your phone? A picture of my dad. Any actors you've ever been mistaken for? Does it happen?

Hunter Schaeffer. What's the worst note a director, has ever given you. Oh, that's a great question. Did you mean to do that? Passive-aggressive-much? Hmm, yeah. So good, it's so good.

It's so good. And I was like, yeah. Yeah, that's called acting. That's my eight-list game. That's my good stuff. I was really drying, yeah. And finally, in the spirit of happy, second fuse, an actor that always makes you happy.

You see them on screen. You're a happy person. Um, uh, oh my God, so many. Um, uh,

uh, um, um, um, be a couple. It's okay. It's not binding. It's not a binding answer.

No, no, I know. I'm just sort of having that experience of like, suddenly having never seen a movie before, you know? Name three movies. Uh,

well? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know the news. Yeah. No, okay, an actor who always makes me happy. Oh, here in Heinz. Oh, love it.

Good answer. A movie that makes you sad. A movie that makes me sad. Oh, my God. Artificial Intelligence. Oh, that's such a good one. The last 20 minutes of that would. Oh, God.

Oh, when she leaves him behind in the car? Come on, Emma. You're on the bottom of the sea for like a million years. What a film. Oh, and a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Oh, boring, but coriander. I have the gene, so I literally don't get it.

It's a genetic thing. Okay, got it. This has been such a delight. I don't know why you've been avoiding the podcast world, Emma. You're your A-plus podcast guest. Truly, this was such a delight. It flew by. congratulations you just kill it in this series and I'm so excited I hope you come to New York

to do some theater at some point selfishly let's make that happen good good excellent excellent well hopefully for some many conversations to come and congratulations on the short everybody should check that out how can people check it out yet or is it we're still kind of figuring out how the world at large can see it's really depends where in the world you are so without sort of giving a list of terms and conditions it's probably best to say It's, you know, roaming engine that. Okay.

Search Emma Darcy, the talent, and hopefully you'll find it soon. And seriously, thank you again for the time. I really appreciate the time and the trust today. Thank you. No, no. Right back at you, it's so nice to speak to you. Have a lovely day.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Riddle. and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney.

And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Chalamee playing power ping pong

in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bagonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar Wright's The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.