Happy Sad Confused - Ethan Hawke

Episode Date: January 5, 2015

Ethan Hawke is an exceptional actor as well as talker as he joins Josh this week to chat about working on Boyhood, exploring the life and lessons of piano teacher Seymour Bernstein in his documentary Seymour, how movies are about a collective imagination, his name being thrown into the mix for Doctor Strange thanks to Josh, and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nugget Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Hey, guys, before we dive into today's episode of Happy Sad Confused, I've got a special message for you about a film that is very relevant to today's show, in fact. The movie I'm talking about is Boyhood, the best-reviewed film of 2014, and I have good news. It is now available to buy on Digital HD before you can own it on Blu-ray. This is, of course, from acclaimed writer-director Richard Linklater. It follows the same actors, as you may have heard over 12 years to tell the groundbreaking coming-of-age story like no one has ever done in film history.

Stars Patricia Arquette and Ethan Hawke in Golden Globe nominated roles, and Boyhood is also nominated for Best Picture Drama and Best Director. So buy it today from Paramount Pictures, it's rated R. Hey, guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. We are back after a little holiday respite. I hope you guys took some time to eat as much. food as I did, spend some time with the family, and watch a whole lot of TV and movies. That's basically what sums up the last couple weeks for me. I do apologize. I try to put out

an episode a week, and my plan was to try to crank on through the holidays, but what are you going to do? Life got in the way. But the good news is, guys, we're back. It's past the first of the year, which means we have a slew of awesome guests coming up on future episodes of Happy Second Views, and that begins right here, right now, with a gentleman by the name of Ethan Hawke. Ethan Hawke has had an amazing career that is, it's had its ups and downs, I guess, but really it's actually been remarkably consistent. If you look at the filmography, it's remarkable to see the kinds of films he's made, the kinds of filmmakers he's worked with, not to mention all the theater that he's done here in New York City. Right now, Ethan,

is definitely having a moment thanks to what's really become a phenomenon. You know, since it premiered about a year ago now in Sundance, and we talk about this a little bit, boyhood has been an obsession for film critics and now audiences alike. If you've seen Boyhood, you know what I'm talking about. This is the famous 12 years in the making Richard Linklider movie that stars Ethan Hawke and Pritchard Arquette, as well as Eller Coltrane, who is really the centerpiece of the story. Ethan's phenomenal in it, and he is very, very likely to get an Oscar nomination, which would be, I think, a second for acting. He was nominated for Training Day. He's been nominated twice before for screenwriting for the before series, obviously another collaboration with Richard Linklater.

He came on the podcast. We take this right before the holidays to talk about a great number of things, including boyhood, including predestination, which is a new kind of sci-fi thriller that is about to open, as well as a documentary that Ethan as directed called Seymour. Seek that out. Seek all these films out. They are all very unique, very different, but they share the man of the hour today. That is Mr. Ethan Hawke. We cover a lot of ground in this one. Ethan is an exceptional talker, a big film geek like myself, and I really enjoyed just shooting the shit with him for a while, including a little Dr. Strange talk. And for context, we talk about it a little bit later on, but Ethan's name was in the mix, apparently, it seemed, when Scott Derrickson signed on to direct Dr. Strange a few months back. Derrickson, of course, directed Ethan in Sinister, and after that happened, I interviewed

Ethan, and I brought up, hey, what do you think about Dr. Strange? Some people have mentioned you. And from there, very soon after that we released that video, it actually kind of took a life of its own, and Ethan was apparently in the mix to be Dr. Strange. And as you'll hear in this conversation, Ethan basically confirms that that weird little interview actually did help gain him some momentum and almost got him the part. In the end, of course, it's Benedict Cumberbatch, and no one can quarrel with that choice, but it's kind of crazy to think how these little interviews can somehow sometimes actually affect the business of Hollywood. But anyway, I'm so happy we're back with another episode of Happy Second Fees. I hope you guys are excited for this one,

and tune in next week. I don't want to reveal who we're talking to, but if all goes going to plan, is going to be another big career highlight for me and another film acting hero and someone that's very much in the moment right now. But enough said about next week. Right now, it's Ethan Hawke. As always, hit me up on Twitter guys. Joshua Horowitz is my Twitter handle. Go over to Wolfpop.com and let us know what you're thinking on the forums. And in the meantime, enjoy this conversation with Ethan Hawke. Really well. How are you doing?

I'm good, I'm good, busy but good. It's a fun time of year to talk about some good movies, talk to some cool people. Non-sexual escort, cash only. Just so you know, you're not the only person to do stupid shit with me. Michael Shannon has done some insane, insane bits with me. I love Michael Shannon. Oh, my God, he's the man. He's so cool.

He's amazing. This is distracting me. Should we get going? You want to roll for real? Let's do it. All right. This is for real now. Mr. Ethan Hawk has entered my office.

Thanks for joining me today, buddy. It's always good to see, man. No, are we, am I being filmed right now? No. Oh, this is fantastic, so I can relax. But you're just recording this. I'm just recording this. Via audio.

And actually, I'm going to record this backup. I've learned my lesson. I had Michael, not the name drop, but I had Michael Sarah in here on the previous podcast. And I stupidly only recorded on one device. And you lost it. I lost a part of it. It was pretty sad. So we're going to back this up.

Now, for posterity, Ethan Hawke has joined me. I'm here. How are you up to? Are you in the middle of stuff right now? What did I do today? let's see I woke up this morning took a couple kids to school

I met my 16 year old You're on kids I went to the bus I said hey kids Don't take the bus today Today No I took my kids to school

Then what did I do Then I actually went to do ADR you know To redo the sound of a movie That I made earlier this year And it was a technology nightmare They were connecting through Spain It was literally

I sat there for 3rd three hours and we recorded three lines. This is not supposed to happen in 2014. No. We're in the future people. Come on. No. It was just one of those things that makes you feel like, I may as well be dead.

This is like, I'm literally a gerbil in a cage. I'm doing, I'm having computer rage over things that don't matter. My life is miserable. No. And then I went and had lunch with the fancy pants producer who wants me to do a Broadway show that I secretly do want to do. And I played hard to do it. How do you, so you just didn't into.

I just ask a lot of questions, you know, and I kind of go, yeah, it is interesting, yeah. Hmm, I don't know. Yeah, tell me more. And what about this? And you try to, inside, I'm going, you know, I'm already, I'm already doing vocal warm-ups for the show. Does a lot of that happen? The quote, taking meetings for films where it's not really an audition, but it is sort of an audition. And what's your attitude about those?

Is it happens all the time? Yeah. And, you know, I mean, this is for a play, so it's a little different. But, I mean, movies are really strange. because there are some directors who, you know, it's rare now, but like every now and then the Coen Brothers or something, if they really have a lot of clout, you know, they ask you to audition. And so you kind of go, why do I have to audition?

Don't they know who I am? And then they say, well, it's either you're not going to get the part or you audition. And so you're kind of like, well, all right, I'll audition. And I miss auditioning from, I mean, when I was younger, it was probably the best acting exercises. The most I ever learned in a period of time was going on seven auditions a week because you would also go on auditions

for parts that you were wrong for. Were you experimenting then? Were you just kind of going for it? Or were you kind of like half-assing it? Like, what was your attitude when it was that? You know, I would be all in. You know, auditions are kind of like dates in a strange way.

You know, like you have a first period where like, this may be the best thing that ever. I should play, you know, some part I'm absolutely wrong for. But so I miss that a little bit But normally what happens is some director calls you up And they say, or you know, you hear They want you to read it And if you like it, you meet them and have lunch

And you, you know Do you still have to audition now? I mean, are you open to auditioning at this point? Yeah, I seem to audition It's extremely rare in the problem The last, I've probably been on two auditions In the last decade, right? both of which

I did not get and I was terrible and it's not really fair for these like big shot directors to audition somebody who haven't been auditioned forever I'm totally out of the game I'm totally out of the game

I don't know and I get all nervous and sweaty and my ego flares up you know I you know to hell what too are these cock suckers think I have to read the goddamn show them my IMDB

come on guys what the hell what have I been doing this for 30 years boy man come on picture it in your head. I'm not going to be that. He was a little imagination, Mr. Director, man.

So every time my figures, if when they want me to audition, it must mean they either want to humiliate me or I'm obviously wrong for it anyway. Right. But then, like, that drama student in me comes out and goes, oh, too big for your bitches now, are you? Right. You know? Right.

And then I decide I have to go in and I do a bad job. I don't know what the lesson is there. Yeah, I don't know either. So there's always a lot to talk about with you because you're the hardest working man in showbiz. Congratulations. We'll give you a prize at the end. I know.

I wish life worked that way. You can take that if you want. I just got a promotional material for Terrence Howard's new show. It's a gold record for Empire. It's got my name on it, but if you want to just cross it out, that's all you. And that's my prize for being the hardest working man in the show business. Exactly. A show I wasn't even in that gold record of which I had nothing to do it.

Yeah. That seems kind of appropriate. It's about as real as any of those things are. You know how Hollywood works. Yeah. But, you know, obviously, boyhood, we've been talking about everyone. been talking about since Sundance, I had the privilege of being at that crazy first screening, which was just remarkable.

Like that night must have been just a, that's probably one that you're always going to think of, I would think, in a career. You never know it kind of when those things are happening, how important they are. But when I think back about that screening, one of the things that was so remarkable about it is people had heard nothing. Right. I mean, now when people go see the movie, they go, oh, they took 12 years to shoot it. But that night, no, wait, I remember the kind of collective gasp in the room as people,

people started understanding that these kids were actually aging in front of their eyes. Yeah. And it was late at night. You remember, it wasn't early, excuse me started at like 9.15 or something. So by the time we were doing that Q&A afterwards, it was past midnight. And I remember the feeling in the audience was, well, you know, I remember hearing about that. You know, when you're first working in this, you know, I remember hearing people say, I saw this movie. People came back from Khan one year talking about seeing Paris, Texas, and that they'd never seen anything exactly like that movie. And, you know, that movie has gone on to be wildly influential, you know, with the Rikuder score and Shepard and all that Vendor stuff. And so I had that feeling when we left. It was strange.

IFC, it was kind of thrown together at the last minute that screen. I remember it was just kind of untitled Richard Linkletter project was coming. And so there was no real party afterwards to go to. There was this amazing feeling. We had this unbelievable Q&A.

You felt this wild electrical buzz. And you remember how well Eller carried himself? This kid has never been in a movie before. He's 18 years old. He comes out of the rock star. He comes out and he starts saying these profound things start coming out of his mouth

about just being a part of anything whenever you're a part of a creative act of any kind that you're a part of what's true in the universe or something but he didn't sound pretentious he just was like stuff was fun but there was no party to go to and so we all went to this weird hotel

and had a party in like Patricia Arquette's room and it was the ridiculous thing about it was it's a little embarrassing it was pretty much only people who worked on the movie were at this party it wasn't normally you're hobnobbing with fabulous people And this was really just us Samir and going, wow, I think

you were really great in that. No, you were great. No, I think you were really great in that. Well, what do you think? Yeah. And then Rick was going, I think it works. And we're going, Rick, I think you did a good job. Do you think so?

After 12 years, you're entitled to a little. But what's weird about is none of us were really patting each other. In fact, we were thinking that maybe we should be. Right. Because there was nobody there who wasn't related to it, we weren't sure. Right.

It's so interesting because also in this, you know, in this season, I don't know what to take away from the fact that, for instance, probably my top two films of the year are Boyhood and Birdman. And they're both films that kind of like, you know, after 100 years of filmmaking are trying to like experiment with the form. And clearly audiences and critics respond to that. And that's, I mean, knowing your career and knowing what you're into, that's got to be thrilling to you to know that people,

people have that same kind of thirst for something different than the norm. I'm in a little shock about it. I mean, it's like when we did Waking Life, I thought Waking Life was brilliant and everything, but I never expected an audience to find it, and they never did. I mean, you know, I mean, it has its like little cult status, but I never anticipated the emotional connection that this movie would have, particularly because of its experimental nature, you know. I mean, as good as that Sundance screening felt,

don't forget, we also, you know, all those big shot studios were around to buy the movie and release it. IFC would have happily taken the burden off releasing the movie. And none of them wanted it. So the thing we were hearing back was, yeah, genius, totally wonderful. You guys are amazing. Keep doing it. Good for you.

You're the best. But no, we don't want to do it because it's not going to make a dime. Right. And we're kind of a little used to hearing that. I mean, it doesn't, you know, the before trilogy has its fans, and we got really great reviews, but it never commercially was important to anybody in Hollywood, right? So I think it's really only been dawning on those of us that made the movie, to what extent it's been working now. And Birdman's another great example of, this is a movie that's really adventuresome. you know i mean and it has something to say i mean it's and normally you know movies that are

pushing the envelope on the form front it take years for people to kind of catch up to though it's just normally the way it rolls right and so i'm finding it kind of wonderful and even to the point of like where you know I always you know in regards to the end of the year wrap up kind of dialogue that happens it's interesting I wonder what it feels like to be Scorsese and have made you know I don't know somewhere between 10 and 12 movies that deserve best picture and have won for a perfectly fine cop movie do you know yes yes no one's going to argue that the Departed, I love the Departed. I love the Departed. But it's not in the top

five of Scorsese movies. This is not Yeah, exactly. This is not a common design to criticize the party, which is a wonderful movie. I think DeCaprio and Matt Damon are brilliant in it. I mean, I would watch it again tonight. Yeah. But it's Goodfellas, Last Sententation of Christ,

mean, streets. I mean, there's a long list. Yeah, casino. I mean, Kondoon is groundbreaking. I mean, I could give Condoon the Pulitzer. I might not, we'll give it the Oscar because it's not mainstream entertainment. But and so what I'm

kind of in shock about is I feel this is my friend Richard Linkletters I think this is probably my favorite movie he's made and here he is getting the accolades for that and I think that's kind of awesome and I'm a little in shock about it I thought that he would win for doing

School of Rock 3 to you know something like you know okay Rick it's not your best but we'll give you the chump change prize for it but people are you know it's fun because this year we're at um he just won best director for the new york film critics and about i don't know when it was around the time that we were first discussing boyhood uh rick won some ancillary prize for waking life it was like you know uh good on you for experimental work prize from the new york film critics and so

and i was supposed to give him this you know dubious honor And we went there and Robert Altman was winning best director, right? And Robert Allman is a hero to tell everybody. But Rick and I particularly feel, I don't know, the work we've done together wouldn't have happened without Alman, you know, without his leadership in that way. And, man, it was funny, he gave the critics just, he gave him a tongue lashing. Oh, Alman was just did not suffer full. I was so sad whatever was on his mind.

I was so proud of him. He was like, too little, too late. You know? And for this very thing that we're talking about, which is that you guys all come to the party, you know, when the narrative suits you in a way. When the narrative suits you, not when I needed you. When I couldn't get money to make a movie, when you know, when you wouldn't give, you know, Kansas City the time of day. You know, now you want to give me lifetime achievement awards and words. And I remember, Sidney Lamett used to say that.

too. I did this movie before the devil knows you dead with him. And he used to joke. He's like, oh, you want to win the Oscar? Let's tell everybody I got cancer, you know. And of course, it was his last movie. Yeah. You know. And, but he didn't, he was allergic to playing into some kind of phony narrative. Right. Like, just let the work be the work. And, um, have you, I mean, have you fallen into that, like, kind of, you know,

feeling sorry for yourself stage at any point? Because it feels like you've had, you know, many different iterations, many different kind of highs and lows. but it feels like you've worked pretty consistently throughout. Was there ever any period that you can pinpoint where you were like resenting, hey, I put in the work, I should be getting better stuff than I'm getting. I'm allergic. You know, I'm also now a dad.

So like I'm allergic to when the should word, you know, the should word is like a little bit of poison. I should get this. I should be this. None of us, you know, if you get to work, in this business at all. If you get to use your imagination and get paid to do it, if you get to have fun,

you're, people get blinded by the minutia. You know, by the illusion of a competition, like, what's a better, you know, somebody's, we were at the Gotham Awards

and Birdman won best picture. And somebody said, I'm sorry, you guys are so much a better film than Birdman. I was like, that's so stupid. You know, there's so many,

I remember a couple years ago or maybe it was just last year, I remember thinking spring breakers is probably the best movie I saw that year, and that didn't win any awards, and tape barely came out, and that's the movie I made with Richard Linklutter, and we didn't win any awards for that movie, and I know that movie was really pivotal and meaningful to me. Have I ever felt sorry for myself? Definitely. And I've been doing this long enough that I remember watching Matt Damon win some Lifetime

Achievement Award, and he talked about, like, the first time he was at, I don't remember if it was the indie spirits or the Gotham Awards or something like that. And he said, the first time I was here, he talked about that feeling of the, everything being new. He was there with Goodwill hunting and how excited he was and he can't believe this was so long ago now. And I remember thinking, God, I was here the first time you were here.

And that was the first time I was washed up. You know, I was already washed up by the time Goodwill had came out. You know? I lived a couple lifetimes. Yeah. And so, yeah, I felt sorry for myself. And one of the things that I admire, I don't know, everything now, I've done so many of these interviews, everything's in the framework of my friendship with Richard Linklutter.

But one of the things I admire so much about him is we made The Newton Boys, a film of which, you know, didn't get one okay review. I mean, to not get mocked was kind of a positive review for the Newton Boys. And the Newton Boy was totally misunderstood when it came out because it was kind of sold. as Young Guns Four or something. And really, it was an Altman comedy, you know, and people, but if it had been sold that way and understood that way, I think people might have actually enjoyed it because when we tested it and everything, everybody loved it. But the zeitgeist turned against McConaughey at the moment.

He was kind of out of fashion. And the zeit guys turned against Rick. And why am I talking about this? Because, no, oh, ready? Okay, so he was put in director jail. All the reviews were bad. Hollywood was like, see, he sold out and he made a bad movie guy, as if he didn't write the Newton Boys and what way was the movie a sellout? But that was the narrative, right,

that this indie darling, he'd made Slacker days and before sunrise, this indie is like train of indie perfection, right? Went and down a miserable blaze of glory. These guys are ready to send him out to pasture. Right. I mean, every, and I'd go in music, oh, yeah, well, see, you can't really make it in the big leagues. You know, that's the way people talk and all Rick did was go back to Austin well you never left but go home and he made two of the most fiercely independent movies of his career tape and waking life both you know he made for a change that you had in your pocket and they're both groundbreaking in their own way both philosophical both worth watching again yeah and I always feel like when people start saying I should or I should

man you I roll my eyes you know because nobody paved the way for Martin Scorsese to be Martin Scorsese the guy worked his ass off you know and and he doesn't stop pushing himself to be new and to keep uh contributing that's what they all said about like Wolf last year it's like it felt like the energy of like a 25 year old filmmaker let me tell you something if I felt this way I remember at the end of their career um was before um um um before um um Ishmael Merchant passed away But Merchant Ivory They made a movie called

Soldier's Daughter Never Cries Yeah, yeah Chris Christopherson right Yeah, Christopherson playing James Jones, the author and stuff It's the same year the Ice Storm came out It was a young Angley In both the films were absolutely excellent

But Angley But Angley was new and exciting And Merchant Ivory had been there And done that And everybody just rolled their eyes At a really tremendous movie That was being made You know, and it's, I've just learned you kind of just have to weather the storm and you kind of go in and out of fashion.

Yeah. You know, and then Ang Lee becomes past, oh, yeah, I've seen him, you know, roll your eyes about him. It all kind of goes around and only you can really ask yourself if you're working as hard as you can. Are you trying to have something to say? Are you having a good time? Yeah. You know. I'm curious, like, sensibilities-wise.

So when you were a kid, like, were you, I mean, obviously your first film was like, I think I was like nine or ten when Explorers came out. So it was right in my wheelhouse. I remember like the trailer for that at the time. The adventure begins in your own backyard. Exactly. So was that like your, was that your cup of tea too? Because like you're, you know, the assumption always is that Ethan Hawke's highbrow, he's borderline pretentious. Like, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I want to see a borderline. I would just jump right in and go to pretentious. I've always been pretentious as hell. But the funny thing is I had two teachers, the real, and one was Joe Dante really early, and one was Peter Weir. And Joe, of course, some people I feel surprised when I would make a movie like Sinister or The Purge

or predestination or Assault on Precinct 13. These movies that I've made throughout my career, which is, they're just old-fashioned genre movies. They're aspiring to be John Carpenter films. They're aspiring to be Roger Corman. movies because Joe long before

you know one of the things I love about Tarantino's he just kind of blasted that in Pulp Fiction one of the great things it did is just blast the wall between high art and low art and he's continued to do that over and over again that just absolutely baffles audiences and they're like wait is this a really serious film or is this

a comic book wait a second what is this and I love that about him and Joe long before I'd ever heard of Quentin And Joe was saying the same thing. You know, I mean, he loved anything from Bergman to Looney Tunes, you know. And Joe has real voice as a director to the point where even my 12-year-old son who saw small soldiers. We were watching small soldiers the other day.

He said, God, this movie reminds me so much of the explorers. And I said, see, this is a guy. He doesn't really even know directors or anything. I said, well, it's interesting. You said, it's the same director. It's the same voice. Yeah. you know and I've really believed in that I love some of the highlights of my life are going from

doing Tom Stoppard's Coast of Utopia to doing daybreakers yeah you know because there is no higher or lower there's people who put thought into it and there's people don't put any thought into it right and there's people who are trying to make a fast buck are trying to be cool and there's people that are trying to connect and communicate and people think the joy like the joy of boyhood's is simply the connection that's made. And the disappointment that you sometimes feel from artists when you're like, why I bring up tape is, man, we work so hard and you wanted it to connect.

And so if somebody comes up to me in the street and says, hey, I loved it, it means a lot to me because I thought we didn't connect. Yeah. You know? And so anyway, my point is that I think that you could make a case to be made that the purge is as good a movie as anybody's going to make about Trayvon Martin.

Do you know? Because if you really make it about socio-political situation in 2014, we start to become some a little preachy, a little. It has some political agenda as opposed to actually just bringing up the issue of class and warfare and what do rich people really think about poor people. And if they really do believe in the unwavering equality of mankind, why do they do nothing about it? And is it any difference between watching people kill themselves in Rwanda?

on the CNN while we're on our treadmill and clicking the channel than if we were watching it right outside the door you know and so that's that's the idea what Joe would say the best drive-in movies you know what the howling can do

is make you think about the Vietnam War in a different way than coming home can sure you know they each can be valuable and so I've always you know it's hard to make a good genre movie it's really hard because the

there's a compulsion to the stupid every turn. And it's hard to make a high-end art film. You know, I've worked with Pavel Pavlovakowski, too. Like, who's about as, you know, arty as you can get. Right. Have you seen Ida? I haven't yet.

I've heard it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to see it. It's tremendous. And, um, and I, thank God somebody's making a movie that you actually need to be over 21 to see. I mean, not because it has tits in it, But because it has something sophisticated to say about politics, about sexuality, about growing up, about your spiritual life and how those things interact.

I mean, you know, most movies aren't being made for people who are asking themselves serious questions about why they're born. Right. Hey, guys, time for an important message from our friends over at Lute Crate. If you don't know, Lute Crate is a monthly subscription box surface for epic geek and gamer items. and pop culture gear. For less than $20 a month, you get $6 to 8 items that includes licensed gear,

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Get to it. Talking about the differences between high and low art and where, you know, thankfully some of these genre films, as you say, can actually be well done and have been well done in the last 10, 15 years. tell me if you don't want to talk about this it's totally fine but was there anything dr strange did you come close oh you got close to you we talked about it you helped me get that part um or you got me as close as anybody could because it the little interview we did we talked we were talking about boyhood and that was when scott had just signed on for the the film and i

you know i asked obviously like hey but your name in the running man i don't really know if i'm allowed to speak about these kind of things because um here's my opinion about it for whatever it's worth, we're living in the age of Marvel. Marvel has a tremendous amount of power about what everybody's going to see. They're making movies at a high rate and they're making them successfully. And there was something really exciting to me about Iron Man to see that's a movie directed by a real director with a real, then Marvel's giving him a real budget with one of the great actors of my generation, right? I mean, how exciting, what it would be like to see Daniel Day Lewis as Dr. Strange, right? So my point is I'm totally

open to doing something like that. There's a problem that comes along whenever Marvel is going to approach Joaquin or me or anybody like is in love with acting because there's a tremendous amount of salesmanship that is now really important to a studio like that. So it's a tremendous amount of time of your life where you're working and you're not acting. Right. You know, you need to sign on

if you're going to sign on for something like that, it's not like, you know, when Daniel DeLewis does Lincoln, right? He works really hard. He preps for that part. He works his ass off. He learns his lines. He comes to set. He gets in costume. He sleeps in an outhouse, whatever he does. Okay. He finishes the movie. Okay. He does

press for a few weeks. Collects a trunk full of awards and goes home, right? Wash, rinse, repeat, every few years. Yeah, right, right, okay. And if you, if he does Dr. Strange, you do all that, then you go on the press tour for a year, right?

And then you have to be online, and you have to do this thing, and you have to do that thing. And if you don't do it, you're seen as being counter to the campaign. You're not coming in, you're not pulling in for the big win.

Everybody else is doing it. Come on. Yeah, and also, let's face it, one spot you know if tom cruise goes on j leno you know what how much an ad costs on j leno at that hour or you know if he can get on saturday night live this is sure free advertising and so it's a bigger burden and so i think studios like marvel and places like that they want to really make sure that somebody's going to play ball yeah and if you have a reputation as a pretentious artist type it doesn't work in your favor right now i would love to work with you

with Scott, and I have a sneaky suspicion that Scott wanted me for that, too. And I think there's also a case to be made that if somebody's going to put up with somebody like, I mean, I can't stop talking on your show. So imagine what I'm like in rehearsal, right? And so if people are going to put up with somebody like me, right, they want to make sure you're going to put asses in the seats. Right. And there's a lot of actors that'll put more asses in the seats than me, you know? And so I, and my whole life have had to fend for trying to, to find some balance where if you don't make people money as a performing artist, you don't get a shot at mainstream material, being a relevant artist. You know, you get relegated. You can do

art. Nobody's going to take that away from me. They can't. I mean, that's just wonderful about my life in the theater. You can't touch me in that regard. But that does give an actor a little bit of arrogance, where my priority in life is not to make Marvel a trillion dollars. And there are people that would be really excited about that. Yeah. That's a big car on the stick. I get it. So how is that for PC?

That was good. You did it. You told the truth. You told the truth. Your publicist didn't murder me or you. So everybody's happy. So let me ask you this. You obviously live in New York.

You've lived here for some time. You've never lived in L.A., have you? No. I've never lived in L.A. either. I grew up here. I admire that in you. There you go. Do you have a driver's license? I do. Okay. I do. Do you miss driving? Wait when you're here? Do you like... I do it sometimes. I do miss it. Like, the one fantasy I have like, okay, let's say, let's say I did have a meeting with Marvel, right? Let's say that did happen, and I'm on my way to the meeting, and I think, well, what would it be like to be here for nine months? Right. You know, and I think about flying home and missing my kids play, and I think about, you know, all the headaches that come, oh, that's... charity event you won't get to go to and okay well so do i put the little kids in the thing

and then i think about what kind of car would i get so that's basically the actual incentive and i think well i could have a really cool car because in new york if you have a really cool car what difference does it make you don't get just be in it or it's going to get destroyed like yeah yeah right right get keyed the first time you drive your kids of school do you uh early in the conversation we talked about you know the meetings kind of an auditioning auditioning thing do you do you do you pursue directors? Do you go after them at this point? I think it should be noted

that while we're speaking there's a giant picture of Tom Cruz that I'm staring at in your office because I keep thinking of these things because there's a guy like I always heard about that like Tom Cruise would like see a PT Anderson movie and call a PT and say PT we should work together and I just admire the

Hutzpa of it. I've never done that. I just want it noted though for the record that it's not just a picture like a headshot of Tom Cruise. I have it in my office. And it's a nudity. headshot. No, you have a picture of one of the great sequels of all time history, the color of money.

Scorsese has come up a lot on this conversation already. I mean, could you imagine, I mean, it seems like you're doing, theater comes up every year. Do you plan your schedule around theater, or is it just sort of, is it so a natural part of your philosophy what drives you that

like, just give me sense to sort of how your schedule happens in a way? I don't know about, I know other people act like they have their whole life planned out. But I really do, there's a line in boyhood that it's really, I really feel like we're all just winging it, you know? I mean, I choose projects so that I can have this conversation with you and still be proud of myself. I can have this conversation with my friends. And so when I remember once I felt a lot of pressure about, finances in my life and I felt a lot of pressure that in and you know the whole world of TV is

kind of exploding and I've always been nervous about television because it's just quality control so unmanable I mean yeah sure some people saw the they don't know that madmen's going to be madman before they sign on right you know if if if p. Anderson comes to me with a script I know PTN is at work I know I can read the script and I know I want to be a part of this and this all sounds great. Or even an unknown director. At least I can read the script. You have something. There's something. The script isn't good, but the director's a genius. The script's

okay. The director's okay, but my co-star is amazing. You know, like, there's always a balancing act you do. In the end, they still a crap shoot. I mean, because it's so much unknown for quality control. And I felt like, all right, I'm really going to do this. And my wife was just like, you know, I really don't think you do have to do that. You know,

we want, like, you got also not just make money to pay for the kids you have to like show them what carrot leads your life and you can't tell them that they should follow their heart and their bliss when all your actions do otherwise right and so for me if I do a lot of plays

it's so exhausting and I quietly go broke and if I do too many movies I get burn out on it there's a lot of promotion involved and I also feel that the best directors they actually don't want to direct you they want you to be a collaborator they want you to come in

I mean one of the greatest experiences of my life was getting to act a couple days with Robert De Niro because I've been a you know everybody in my generation grew up watching Scorsese and that was the bar like you don't even know how they did that you know De Niro comes on even in Cape Fear and you're like how did he do that Like, like, I know how most performances get made.

I kind of figured, I see how that, but I don't, how'd they come up with, and then the bitter face? Are you serious? Like, what? You know, it's amazing, right? And how do they do this? Well, a tremendous amount of, like, well, well, then I get the chance to do a couple, in great expectations, I get to do a couple scenes with De Niro.

And I'm having a really okay time on the shoot. It's not so fun. Gwyneth and I are trying, but. And Alfonso Caron is a great director, but we're just all struggling. And De Niro came to set, all of a sudden, everybody's having a great time.

Because he didn't wait for permission for anybody to say the set is supposed to be a creative place. He just started working. He came in with ideas. What if you do that? You know what? No, this tie is bad.

I want to have a different tie. And all of a sudden, I remember him obsessing for like an hour and a half, in a way it seemed crazy about what tie his character had. But what happens is it sends a ripple through the whole set that every decision we make

important. Then all of a sudden the lighting designer says, no, I think it should be a magenta, not purple. And then everybody's like, I think I should make left. In a way that might sound crazy, but in a way, what is, everybody was having agency and they cared in this energy that starts to be contagious, a people thinking like, you know what, it matters. This movie matters. And so when a guy like Linkletter calls me up and wants me to do this movie, he doesn't want some guy to learn some lines and say it, okay. He wants some help. To create a world and invite, you know, movies are about a collective imagination. When you see The Godfather, that collective imagination of the people who made that movie,

from the music to Pacino to James Kahn, to the production design, you think that world really exists. You feel like you might see Michael Corleone drive down the street or be at a Knicks game or something. You know, it seems so real. And that's the power of great acting. And you don't get, they don't, when I was younger, I thought like, oh, somebody is going to direct me to do that.

Because in a way, it had happened. Peter Weir did that. We had massive amounts of rehearsal. He obsessed over what our color, our jacket should be. And so I kind of placed all this authority on the role of director. And slowly I learned that, no, the reason why everybody wants to hire Tom Cruise, for example, is because he brings a lot to the game. Right.

And he elevates everybody else's game. Famously so, yeah. famously so. Before we go, and I know we have to wrap up soon. First, we have to plug some two other

great projects of yours. Seymour, which is I know a pet project documentary that came very organically, it sounds like, something that just, I mean, that was not the idea I liked to look for a documentary subject,

right? Oh, God, no. I wanted somebody else to direct it, but I kept telling everybody that they should, I try to get link letter, try to get Alexander Shiva to do it. I go to get different people to do it.

And finally my wife said, you know, I think you should just do this. I don't have time to do this. But we slowly did it, and it was really, yeah it's one of those things you just fall into that and the winging it of all life you just kind of playing this stuff as it comes at me yeah and this one I met this guy Seymour bernstein who was a former world-class pianist played all over the world and has dedicated

the second half of his life to teaching and as I look back on it I was turning 40 it was during a time period I was really worried about money the same time I was facing issues I'd never had to face before and I realized that I was kind of probably looking for a mentor myself about how to live the second half of my life what am I

what am I going for? The other one we should mention is that this calls back to your you know your embracing of a genre you're back with some guys you've collaborated with before on predestination which again this speaks to like the fact that the three films you're promoting are pre-destination Seymour and boyhood pretty much sums up

Ethan Hawke in a nutshell pretty different yeah so predestination this is a return to this very dynamic filmmaking pair what attracted you to getting back with them after the first time okay well the spirit brothers are these Australian twins that if you haven't seen daybreakers it's a really crazy weird movie and you might think it's like some vampire movie but it's actually much more interesting than that and I met them and they came they hadn't they'd done this one weird movie called the undead which I don't know if you see but it's it's kind of cool they made it for about $5.59 and they made it on their computer, but it's really a head trip and very cool. And I met with them, and they showed me, they had done a little mock-up of

they do effects on computers, so they've done a few images from reality, not reality, but before sunrise, of me as a vampire, eating Julie Delpy. Amazing. And I thought that was kind of brilliant. It was surprising to me some comic book geeks who loved before

sunrise. It seemed surprising somehow and it shows the expanse of their taste and I made this movie with them and it was really hard we had a hard time it was their first experience dealing with the studio with money with the movie

from the time I said yes to the movie to the time the movie came out Twilight had happened because I remember when I hit my first meeting with them we were like God it's really time for vampires to come back we thought we were so on the cutting edge and by the time it came out like it was passe right but the movie is not about vampires. The movie is really cool

film, but I really wanted to do another film with them, and I really wanted them there was a great pull to them after Daybreakers to go do a horror film, or just something where they could make a lot of people a lot of money, and I knew that they were pretty serious dudes, and I wanted them

to try to make a great film, and they came at me with this script, and you know, it just floored me. I had no idea what the hell I was even reading. And if you've seen the movie, Brazil, for example. This movie could be a good, it's double feature with Brazil.

It's got these ideas that originate from Robert Heinlein and they're just amazing. And these guys, Sarah Snook gives one of the best performances I feel like I've ever been involved with, but it's in a mind-bending time travel movie where you're not supposed to have great performances.

I mean, if it were in some little indie transgender film that was kind of, you know, quote-unquote important, she would win awards But what she's done is actually better than that because to give a truly human performance like that inside an action picture is hard to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, so I love her and I love the movie. And I'm hopeful it's already starting to find a kind of fan base of some like-minded freaks. Well, again, you just want to associate with the filmmakers that are going to push it in some way. These guys are clearly out there in the best possible way. And remember Linkletter himself even told me, me, I said, yeah, I'm thinking about doing another movie with that me.

He's like, you better. And I was like, why? Because, you know what? You don't want to be in their, like, first movie that was pretty good and showed a lot of promise and then let Keanu Reeves be in the great one. You just keep working with them. Don't let some other sucker come take. You, you know, you brought them to the table.

Eat the meal. Link later's the smartest one in the business. Finally, my only note, my only question is, why don't you do more comedy? I'm surprised. We did a bit together. You were great in it. I feel like, actually, I was looking at the filmography, there aren't a ton. I know.

There's not a lot off. You could make a case to be made that tape is a comedy. It's pretty funny. And I don't play an overtly comic character, but reality bites is pretty funny. And I would say I haven't done a flat comedy since reality bites. Is that something conscious or is that just sort of the way it's what you're drawn to? You know this better than anybody, but the feeling of making people laugh is like. God and you know there's nothing like it it's so I would love to do it and I remember sneaking

into the back of buddy my and I were driving cross country when Reality Bites came out and I just for fun I did that thing you always kind of like it was playing at the mall reality bites is playing at the mall and I snuck into the back of the theater just to see like you know I walked in half an hour late and left half an hour before it was over and it's the best to like just walk Watch the community people and laugh it. You laugh at you being a jerk. You laugh at you being stupid. I mean, there's something about it.

Because, again, it's the same thing about being understood. If they laugh, they're connecting. It's like some weird Zen Cone or something. They get it. Yeah. And I would love to do it. And I've just frankly never get asked to. Well, here's the call to arms to everybody.

Great comedy writers out there. We'll send you the bit we did as proof of concept and reality bites. And you'll vouch for me. And I'll vouch for Mr. Hawke. And you send that as my audition piece. Yes. Because you know, we know I'll tank it. audition. Can I ask you one question about this interview? Because as I was on my way over here,

we were like stuck in traffic. And I had been forwarded some email of another interview I did and that it was apparently pretty good. Somebody, a friend of mine says to me, hey man, this thing turned out good. Did you see this? And I watched about three seconds of it. And I wanted to strangle myself. I was like, what a pretentious asshole. And you said this thing. And I swore to myself. No, I swore to myself coming over here that I wasn't going to get excited. I wasn't going to talk too much, right? And I was going to be cool

and I wasn't going to be pretentious. And all I've done is get excited, talk too much, and be pretentious. Who wants a boring, non-guy that doesn't talk? The publicist racist person. My mission was accomplished. You did a fine job. You get me a comedy part

and I'll come back in here and be cool and removed. Fair enough. Good to see you, man. Wolf Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop Pop. Pop is part of Midroll Media, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Matt Gourley and Paul Shear. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him?

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We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack-tacular news. After a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh, and I, are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do? to pick a snack to eat a snack and to rate a snack scientifically emotionally spiritually

mates is back Mike and Tom eat snacks is back a podcast for anyone with a mouth with a mouth available wherever you get your podcasts