Happy Sad Confused - Evan Rachel Wood, Vol. II

Episode Date: June 29, 2022

Spoiler Alert: Evan Rachel Wood really shouldn't be back on the podcast talking about "Westworld" considering the events of season 3 but here we are! Yes, Evan is back on the show and on the podcast for a fun chat about her career, from THIRTEEN and ACROSS THE UNIVERSE to playing Madonna in an upcoming film! HAPPY SAD CONFUSED has made a donation to Act Blue Abortion Funds. Please donate if you can. For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Evan Rachel Wood, from 13 and across the universe to Westworld. Hey, guys, Josh Harrow, it's here with another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, the very talented, the multi-talented, you know, what skill does Evan Rachel Wood not have? She can clearly sing, she can clearly act, and she is a charming human being that I always enjoy chatting with. This is a catch-up with the great Evan Rachel Wood. On the occasion of Westworld's season four debut, it has just debuted on HBO. I've caught the first four episodes, really dug them, and I know you'll enjoy this conversation with Evan about Westworld, but about her entire career as we do around here. Fun fact, Evan was, for the devoted happy, sad-confused listeners out there, you may or may not recall back in the particularly crazy days.

It's hard to say, oh, those were the crazy days because look around us, guys, we're still in it. Things are crazy. But, okay, the uniquely crazy days of the first days of the pandemic, Evan Rachel Wood was the first guest on the kind of retooled, happy-sac-confused when we started doing it virtually. And when I started asking folks about comfort movies, she was kind enough to come on about season three of Westworld, but really about her comfort movie, Clue. So that was, and I listened to that the other day, as I mentioned to Evan, and it's just bizarre to listen to what we sounded like back then. We were all just in a state of shock. But then again, guys, aren't we still in a state of shock? If it's not COVID, it's the Supreme Court of the United States just, just, just.

just setting us back 50 plus years. I don't, you know, you guys know where I stand on politics and, um, and the like. And I'm not going to go on and on. But I will say, I know it's been a really tough week for, for anybody and everybody out there. Um, and it will be a tough road. Surely this is not, there's no easy answers to where we're at right now. Um, But I guess we all just got to maintain hope and keep doing our part. You know, I made a donation. I'll put it in the link in the show notes for some places where you can donate to help, you know, keep opportunities available for women who, you know, need options because the options are getting more limited in this increasingly totalitarian state. gee what a fun intro i know guys but um kind of appropriate given the subject matter of westworld

uh and kind of appropriate given that evan is a noted feminist who is always up for speaking her mind and i really admire her for that we get into not the not the stuff i'm talking about towards the end of this conversation because it hadn't broken when we we had this chat but we do talk a little bit about But her activism in recent years, you know, if you don't know it, she was, you know, allegedly, you know, in a pretty horrible relationship with Marilyn Manson. And she has, you know, used her bully pulpit, her public profile to spread the word of, you know, trying to expand rights for domestic violence victims, increase the statute of limitations. on these kind of crimes, and there was a, I think it was a two-part doc out early this year from HBO called Phoenix Rising, and she continues to, you know, she's testified on Capitol Hill and done a whole lot of great work. So that's the connection on the political side of things. But first and foremost,

this conversation today is a bit of escapism, as happy second-fused always is. It's a nice, long, juicy chat about Evans' fantastic career. And she's been acting since she was a kid um you know i you most of us probably first took note of her in the great katherine hardwick movie 13 opposite nicky reed um but she has consistently worked and consistently worked with some of the greats out there um as i reference she is an extraordinary singer has a a musical career on the side um but that's also um you know broken out onto the big screen in recent years she was in frozen too but probably you know most notably across the universe that uh crazy Julie Tamor, Beatles-infused musical from a bunch of years back.

So we talk about it all in this conversation, including the new season of Westworld. And, yeah, she's always a delight. This was a conversation we did virtually, but in conjunction with 92 NY, a lot of fun working with them as always. Hopefully we've got some more, you know, we're always working on more virtual events, but actually, you know, we're really trying to prioritize more in-person events in New York City. So we will try to do that again very soon, and you know I will be letting you guys know first here and really first, I will say, on the Patreon page.

What a segue, right? Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused is where we put up all the video versions of the podcast of all the game night episodes, of all the episodes of a second look. And yes, it's where we let folks know the first news on upcoming guests, on upcoming events in New York City, and elsewhere, that's the place to be. So patreon.com slash happy, say, confused. Give it a try if you are so inclined. Trying to have some fun over there, and hopefully you guys are enjoying what we have to offer.

Let's see. Other things I mentioned besides Evan and the horrible state of the world, let's think. Well, a couple exciting interviews posted from my other jobs. MTV News, I did a couple really fun interviews recently, caught up with Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen for Obi-1 Canobi. that's up on MTV News's YouTube page. What a great treat that was. I mean, if you had told me, I'd be talking to those two guys about a Star Wars project five years ago. I would have said

you were crazy, but here we are. So that's great. Also got a chance to talk to Austin Butler. If you listened to the podcast last week, of course, you heard my conversation with Baz Luhrman, the director of Elvis. The real story of Elvis, as you know if you've seen the film or if you've heard the buzz, is Austin Butler's remarkable performance, a true, you know, catapult to another level of stardom, I think, for Austin. That was a great catch-up with him. That's also for MTV News. I highly recommend checking that out.

And I'm glad to see that Elvis is doing well, you know, something that's not a superhero movie, doing well. Top Guns certainly, you know, lit the fire in the box office, I guess, recently. But it's exciting to see so many movies, you know, people going out to the movies. You know, I was pretty pessimistic about the state of movie theaters a few months back, but this summer's been pretty exciting. We've got a very fun Comedy Central sketch coming very soon. I think the end of the week, I will keep you posted on that. We shot it the other day.

A new young talent that has not been on the podcast before, but I have a lot of love and respect for her, and she killed it in the sketch. That's coming very soon. And what else? Well, just around the corner is San Diego Comic-Con. I'll be out there. I can say that, I think. I'll be out there for MTV News, out there for Comedy Central, doing what I hopefully do best, I guess,

which is talk to celebrities about their projects and try to have some fun. So hopefully I'll see some of you guys out there. I always have a blast in San Diego, and I'm so excited to be back covering one of my favorite events, the insanity that is San Diego, I think that's all the plugs for today. Let's just say, speaking of plugs, if you want to plug and spread the good word of the podcast, please do. I know I say it, but let's take a moment.

Let's take a breath and think about this. Pay it forward, guys. Don't be selfish. Spread the good word of happy, second fuse. Do me a solid. Maybe this is your first episode. Maybe it's your 100th episode. Go over to Apple iTunes. Give us five-star rating. Give us a kind of review. It only helps spread the good word. We're eight years and counting into happy say I'm confused and I am not giving up. I am just going forward until they pull this microphone away from me. That's my duty to you, dear listener. All right, let's get some of the main event. Here is my conversation and catch up with the extraordinarily talented Evan Rachel. My guest today is the absurdly talented 13 across the universe, the wrestler, and in recent years, HBO's mind-bending sci-fi saga, Westworld, which is about to come out for its fourth season. She sings, she acts. She can quote the movie Clue at a moment's notice. It's my old buddy, Evan Rachel Wood. Hey, Evan. It's so good to see you.

It's good to see you. So welcome, welcome back to the podcast. First of all, so you've been on the podcast, but you've been in, you were actually, I don't know if you remember this, you were the first guest on Happy, Say, Confused. when everything went to hell. You were kind enough to come on in those crazy times in March of 2020. And we did, we had like a 45 minute conversation about Clue because what else were we doing with our time then. Yes. Yes.

And it's funny. I was listening back to that chat. And it's like a, it's like a piece of history now. It's like to hear like us like trying to sort out what was happening. It's crazy now to think of. I thought about that as I was doing. all of the like Zoom interviews in 2020, yeah, during that time, like going on talk shows over

Zoom, all these unprecedented things. And I was like, this is, yeah, this is history. Like, not everybody's going to do this or has done this. This is very specific. Anything that happened in the past couple of years, I feel like we'll be referenced and studied for quite some time. I feel like people are going to look back at all the tape we did, yeah, in 2020 and be like, oh, their brains are melting that year. Like, they don't know how to process what's happening. I'm really excited to see now that everything is opening back up. I was talking about this last night to see the resurgence and what the culture is going to be like now that everybody's kind of back out in the wild, what the art's going to be, what the music's going to be because, yeah, our brains have been melted and bended in every different direction. And so I guess we're going to see the effects of that. No, it is. I mean, it's true. It's a silver lining, a small silver lining. It's been a horrible couple of years for all of us, but like great art. emerge from from wars, from crises, from tragedies, and this has certainly lived up to all of that. So you, the premiere was last night here in New York City. I saw you for a brief second. We were just

chit chatting and we were talking about how it was cool to be out and about, as you say. Talk to me, like what it's, is it still a little bit surreal to be out with your cast members, out with folks you know and recognize in that kind of setting? It is, especially because the last thing that I did before everything shut down was the Westworld premiere for season three. That was the last thing right before the shutdown. And then, yeah, so this is, I believe, my first premiere, yeah, like in person since then. Do you have an all-time favorite premiere memory of not even just Westworld and your, in your life, like, what's the one that jumps out as like, oh, that was a bizarre, fun, weird night? And if nothing jogs, it's okay, we'll move on. You are asking me

go through a rolodex of meth. It's okay. It's okay. And so, like, I, that would take me a second because a lot of those memories are a little hazy. That means they were good premieres, I go, I don't, I don't really smoke cigarettes anymore. But I will say that, like, a West World premiere for me is not complete until I have a cigarette with Ed Harris. It's so funny you say that.

I saw Ed. When I walked into the party, I saw Ed Harris smoking outside and like, all right, we're in business. I don't know what that means. It's just something. Don't smoke. I feel like, but I'm going to smoke with that Harris. Come on. A monster.

Yeah, I get it. Talk to me a little bit about it. Okay, so let's go back because your association with Westworld. Okay, so the fourth season is about to premiere. I've seen the first four episodes, by the way, and they're excellent, amazing as always. I love this season a lot, yeah. It's great. So we'll get into that, but let's go into the history first because you've been, I mean, it's been a long road with this show.

It takes a lot of work to put this. series together. As anybody seen the episodes, it's a very ambitious undertaking. You were first cast in, what, like 2014? 14, yeah. So where were you at then when Westworld came around? Were you looking for a series? Were you looking for anything like sci-fi? I mean, how did it happen? And where were you at? It was, it was honestly a godsend. I was in a weird place in my career, actually. And I was sort of, I've had a few moments in my trajectory where I've gone, do I want to keep going? Do I want to stop? What am I doing? I need to reevaluate. And I was at kind of one of those points right before Westworld came around. I was like, what am I doing? And how am I doing it?

Right. And I was like a new, like, single mom, kind of like, what am I going to do? And it really just came to me. Lisa Joy and Jonah Nolan, I don't know why they're so good at like, I'm tuning my own horn here a little bit, but their ability to cast a show is pretty outstanding, especially because at the time when they said, we really want you to do this role,

I was kind of like, why me? Right. I don't know. Like, I, you know, it was like a period piece. It was like this kind of, like the Syphos show, and I was just kind of like, I wonder why they thought of me. I don't know. Like, I welcomed it, but I was kind of like, huh.

And then, you know, it wasn't until about halfway through the season. I was like, how did you guys know that this was my role? Like, I haven't, it's one of like the crown jewels of my career. I think we've talked about this. Like, you know, when people ask me, like, what are some things that you're most proud of? Like, Westworld is definitely top three. And I think always will be. It was just like, especially that first season, just such a pure experience making it, you know, when like there's these projects you work on where everything just falls into place and comes together.

And this was just one of those things where you could feel it and you know you were working on something amazing. And so, yeah, it kind of reinvigorated my whole outlook on, you know, acting in my career and what I wanted to do. And it was inspiring. And it was like, okay, I'm ready for round two kind of everything. Yeah, yeah. I'm curious, so like, talk to me a little bit about that. Like, was that about self-doubt? Was it about not enjoying the kind of roles that were you were up for and feeling like the industry wasn't seeing what you were.

It was a little bit about not enjoying the roles because it's hard when you're in that kind of early 20s age range and you're like, like, I guess, you know, like a pretty girl. And people don't really know what to do with you because you're like, I want to play like character roles and I want to be doing like, and they're like, but you're pretty and so we're not sure. what we do with you yet you know and you're like all right i guess i'll wait for you know the more interesting stuff to to come not just like the sex symbol or the adjune or whatever um so yeah it was it was it was a little bit that but also i think like when you've when you've been acting your whole life i mean i've been acting since i was four you know i'm 35 now i've already been doing this like over 30 years i'm you know sometimes i get a little tired i'm like okay and so i was at that kind of crossroads. I'm like, did I choose this? Do I want this? This is really what I want to do,

you know? And so, yeah, it's good to check in with yourself and make sure, you know, that you're always kind of like making the choice to do it, you know. I love the math on that, because how great is it going to be when we're talking when you're like 85 and you can be able to say to be, Josh, I've been acting for 81 years. It's true. It's like, it's like, it's kind of crazy. Most people, like, after 30 years are like, I'm done, I'm retiring. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm have to, I'm just getting started. Oh, God. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool, I have to say. Okay, so talk to me, like, these scripts from the get-go, so ambitious, so heady. I mean, this is dense stuff. And I'm curious, like, did you get it from the start? Like, what were the big

questions you had for the creators, the showrunners about Dolores, about the show. Was it all on paper, or was it like, I don't understand, like, what this, where this is headed, what this means or what? A lot of it is on the page, absolutely, but so much of it is, is, you know, our metaphors and poetry and, you know, mythology and references of other stories, fairy tales, cautionary tales. And so it really helps having Jonah and Lisa sit there and so beautifully, you know, describe what we're doing and why we're doing it. And I think it was the first season about around the third or fourth episode, because I really didn't know very much going into the show. Like, I knew it was

HBO. I knew there were great people behind it. And so I felt good, essentially accepting a job from a script I had never read. It was like off of a concept because we were allowed to read the scripts until after we were cast in the show, essentially. And so it was kind of a leap for everybody. but I think we all knew sort of that, you know, it was going to be something extraordinary, but I had no idea that it was going to be as profound. And then it was going to be such a commentary on technology and society and freedom and choices and, you know,

these existential questions that I feel like really just sort of starting to ask ourselves. Like even, you know, the tagline of the show, have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? It's like it's kind of an eerie tagline, but it really is, like, a good question, you know? Like, have you? Have you ever questioned the age of reality? Not until this moment, yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So, and people ask me if the show has, like, changed my perspective on the world and on technology. I'm like, absolutely. I think it'd be impossible. You can't live in that space for years. Yeah, of course. Oh, no.

With people that really, you know, have their finger on the pulse of the future and what's coming and I think are genuinely trying to, you know, caution us about. certain things or make us ask questions that we may not be asking. I mean, there's laws being broken right now that aren't even written because technology is moving so quickly, you know, and so it's good to stay on top of it. These interviews about the show are always very uplifting. They're like, no, I guess I joke around a lot because they're like, tell us about the show. I'm like, well, you know, like the human race is pretty much done. Basically, it's the epilogue of the human race. We're basically going to.

It's good to laugh, though. Okay, you get at one thing that I think the show has been brilliant out, which is that it is so iterative and it builds upon itself. And that goes to the casting, it goes to the setting. I mean, I remember when we talked a couple years ago about season three, you were talking about it as like, this kind of feels like a new beginning in a way, a bit of a reboot. Let's talk about season three before we get the season four a bit, because that was quite the season for Dolores. How was it, were you presented with that entire storyline and end for Dolores at the outset of that season? Did you know it was the end for Dolores?

I did, yeah. They told me sort of, like at first it was kind of passed off as a joke. Like the first, before every season, we all usually have a caller, sit down with Joan and Lisa. And they sort of give us a blueprint of, you know, the need to know things about the season, sort of the vibe where we're going. But, you know, all the details really get filled in as we're going. And so they were describing it to me, and they're like, you know, and then maybe this is going to happen, you know, and then like, I don't know, and then she dies and then we bring her back. And I was like, you said that so flippantly.

It's like a so nonchalantly and just like, and then maybe we're going to die and they'll come back. Like, that seems like a pretty big plot twist. Can we, can we dive into that for a second? Can we just expand on that a little or you know, okay? And so, yeah, it wasn't until we were nearing the finale that I got to sort of ask more questions and get the low down. And yeah, and yeah, they were like, no, she really is dying. You will be back, but you will not be Dolores. You know, you're going to look and sound like you, but you're not going to be you.

But that's all I was told. And so it wasn't until I was coming on in season four that I got to know who exactly I was. Well, that's tantalizing. So that's fascinating because it must be, I don't know, was that a mixed, were you excited by that? Were you thrilled by that? Or was it like, wait, I'm starting from scratch. Like, I've been building this character over many years. And yeah, it's cool, I'm coming back.

But wait, what about my buddy Dolores? It's always mixed feelings every season because I already feel like the character has changed every season already. You know, there was like, you know, I call her O.G. Dolores with the Southern accent who just saw the booty and everything and she was just secure and open.

And then season two, it's like all the walls are up and she's just like on a mission, like Terminator. Season three, and that's when she turned into, Wyatt. So I felt like I was playing another character, season two, and then season three, she's a more modern woman, and there's the duality with Hale,

and you get into her interior world a little bit more, but she's still very guarded. So I was kind of excited to come back much more human. I think when people come on the show, they're like, turn me into a host. And I was kind of

the opposite of like, I'm actually, I'm excited to be more vulnerable and be a little nerdier and you know also it was nice to have a break from all the like physically exhausting stuff I was like you guys go do it

I get at it though I'm not in the dirt they had mercy on me I'm sure because next season they'll be back at it so let's tease the audience a little bit because I you know I have a sense of it I certainly haven't seen the entire season but yes you reemerge as Christina

you've got a very cool roommate in our Arianna Dubos, again, let's talk about the expanding. I mean, one season, you had Tessa, Thompson, you had Aaron Paul, now Oscar winner, Ariana Dubos. These guys are doing it right. Harking back to how good they are at casting, like, they cast like Tessa and Ariana, like, you know, this is like before Ariana's Oscars, like, you know, like right before like Tessa just like blew up, you know, so like they, they can see people really well, like, in

it got that up-and-comer Anthony Hopkins right before he hit. I mean, they got him right. Put Anthony Hopkins on the mat, man. But, you know, some people don't, they only go for, like, what's already popular. And it's rare that you find people that not only are good at it, but trust themselves enough. And, like, no, like, no, no, this is, this is investing in this, yeah. So you, you, you're roommates with Ariana's character. You're, there's a big sense of, Christina is, seems to be haunted by something.

has some dreams, is there's a real sense of deja vu in her life. She's dating. This is not turning into a rom-com show. Don't worry, guys, but there are some dates in it. Yeah, I guess what can we say about Christina? How would you describe her?

Well, I think people will sort of notice right away that this is a completely new person, but she is in a bit of a routine or a loop. that may feel a little familiar. But I think she's just, she's kind of like the wallflower. She's a little like, unassuming, not totally confident in herself,

really sweet girl, very nerdy. Has Dolores qualities of, I really long for romance and poetry, and excitement and I long for something more than what this world has to offer me and I feel like there's something wrong with the world but everyone's making me feel like I'm the one that's wrong and so I think that's where her and Dolores have a lot in common

and that she just knows something's off and she can't quite put her finger on it you know and that's that's so that's where she starts is sort of just getting this feeling and then having to uncover the mystery of who she is and what the world she's found herself in could be. We can say, I think it's in the trailer that we can, Mr. Marsden is going to pop back in there, right? That's pretty cool.

Is he Teddy? Is he good? Is he bad? Because, you know, people can look like people and not be people. I mean, that's why the show always sort of keeps you on your toes because you're like, oh, Teddy's back. And you're like, is he? Right.

We don't know. Yeah. All right. So since we have the luxury of time, we've never really done the career conversation thing. We're not going to hit everything, but I do want to go back a little bit with you. Okay. Because I know you were born into this to a degree. Your parents loved and lived a life in acting and theater and loved film.

Do you like remember a time where like acting and film wasn't just like part of the discussion? No. No. I honestly can't. And it's very hard for me to even remember a time before I was on a set because I started working on films when I was four. so you don't have a lot of memories before that like just kind of little flashes of things but you know for the most part it's just always been a part of my life um and so it's it's just so second nature to me now i mean the second i get on a set it's just so ingrained into my DNA you just go like straight into the everybody who's called me a soldier on set because it's just know exactly what i'm doing um i i i don't know how to do a lot of things but i know know how to do that. Really?

I don't know. Like eating, breathing. When did you start to do TV and film auditions? Like when did you really make a concerted effort to like your parents kind of help you in that area? It was after that first TV movie and my brother, Ira, is also an actor and he was doing films as a child as well. And like sometimes I would like piggyback off of what he was doing and like get thrown into like one of his projects. projects in like a flashback or something. And then, you know, this is when I was living in North Carolina, too,

and there was a lot more filming happening in Wilmington. Yeah. So it were studios. How did you not end up on Dawson's Creek? Wasn't that like? No, I was a little young. My tips weren't frosted. And so I can.

It was the right type. But, yeah. And so, yeah, I would drive up from Raleigh with my mom to audition in Wilmington. A lot of sitting in hallways with that like old fax paper, that like tissue paper. Yes. Inks all smear. You're trying to read your lines. Like, oh, I was back in the day.

Now everybody's like self-taping on iPhones and stuff. It's just a completely different world from like getting a fax. Right. A thousand percent. Did you have strong opinions, like even as a kid about like high art versus low art? Like, would you have been just as happy to be like on like Mickey Mouse Club or a CW? No, you were. You were a highbrow.

I was such a little snob. I was such a little snob as a kid. But again, like not an A, oh, we're better than you. But just, you know, again, yeah, my parents were actors. And my parents have great taste. And they're good actors. And they're like Jonah and Lisa, you know, in that, like, they spot good quality. And like, and they'll see potential in somebody way before, you know,

they're discovered or blow up. because they're not just, like, going after what's cool. Like, they're genuinely, you know, seeing good art. And so, yeah, there was a real, not just appreciation for good art, but, like, integrity and why you're doing what you're doing. It was never based around celebrity or fame or, you know, just wanting people to like you. It was like, no, I really want to make something that's going to move people and change people. And, you know, art was sort of a form of activism in a way.

in our house and so I always treated it with like dignity and respect and you know it wasn't just like throwing on a costume and making faces it was like really trying to connect people and do you remember the first gig that felt like you were getting at what your parents talked about where it was like I'm not just this not just work this is like this is kind of important you know with a capital Y maybe this is kind of special I think the first time you move somebody to tears with a with a performance and not just a performance. You're like, oh, I acted that scene really well. It's like, for me, if I do a scene really well,

it's because I've managed to let my walls down and show a part of myself and be seen, you know, and show a part that you're like, I don't know if anybody's gonna relate to this, but this is real for me. And then when somebody else connects to that and they're moved by it in the same way, I think that's when you realize,

I was just having this conversation with somebody last night. They were like, what is that feeling when you know you connect with somebody through your art or you make you know that connection you relate in that way i was like it's called healing like that's what that feeling is it's when you're seen you know in a deeper way through art or somebody connects with you through your art and i swear to god that feeling that you get is like something in you being healed because something was shown and then it was you know it's like we all just want to be seen yeah so when did you start to feel the one I did a film, not a film, well, one of the first films that I watched that really made me want to be a serious actor was The Miracle Worker with Patty Duke and Anne Van Croft.

And that was the first time I saw like a child act that well, you know, like. Yeah. And it just kind of blew me away. And so my dad, you know, runs a theater. My mom's an actress. So I just got up the courage to sort of be like, can we do the miracle worker at the theater? And can I play Helen Keller? And he was like, when you're eight, when you're eight, we'll do it when you're eight.

And so for like two years, I was like pretending to be blind, like walking around my house, like just trying to get this thing down. My mom played Annie Sullivan. And we ended up and he kept his word. I turned eight and we did miracle work at the theater. And I remember the first night,

I really, like, it clicked for me. And I was doing the water pump scene. And there was a moment where she understands for the first time. And like, something just happened this night. And I felt like the energy in the room shift. And I could hear people weeping in the audience. And I'm like, a kid. And I'm like, suddenly you're like, oh, my, oh, wow.

Like, I'm just this little thing that just like moved like a whole theater of people. and that's when I felt the kind of profound impact when it's like, oh, I'm not like trying to act really well. I'm just letting go. Yeah. And you feel that wave and that energy. It's, I think that was the moment. Well, it also must be one of those things where, like, you're gifted with that moment

of feeling. And then the rest of your career, you're kind of chasing that again. You know what that feels like. It's true. That is true. And you know what it doesn't feel like that. Blessing the curse. Yeah.

Right. That wasn't it. That wasn't it. That wasn't like Helen Keller. back when I was eight. Yeah, but it makes those moments even more just sweeter when you get in that flow state.

And that's what Westworld. That's what I was saying about Westworld, that first season you're like, oh, yeah, everything's falling into place. Let's do a little bit of this is your life and show you a couple clips. There are a couple films that are particular we in the audience, of course, love.

I mean, it's seemingly a pivotal moment is your collaboration with Catherine Hardwick and Nicky Reed on 13. And Catherine is such a unique spirit as a filmmaker, a unique life force in the world. Maybe let's show the clip first. and then we can talk on the other side about what this film,

what this experience meant to you. Let's take a look at 13. You wanted so bad. Look what I got from the tattoo show. Let's do it right now. So I get. This is probably going to hurt worse in her tongue. I don't give the shit, just do it.

Oh, fuck! What the fuck did you do? Everything okay, Amy? Yeah, we just pulled the coke money. So, yes, you were doing that while you were watching the clip, covering your face. Clearly, there is still some sense memory there. memory there. Talk to us through that scene, yeah.

It's also, like, I get, I get why it was so hard for people to watch now that I'm a mom and an adult. And so I go back and look at my little 14-year-old self, and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, don't do that, put that down. Like, and

that scene, actually, that little dull needle did slip a bit. And so I am slightly getting pierced in that shot. It kind of went like halfway in. So yeah, you're not so much acting. I don't have a scar on my belly button for a hot second. I still give Nikki, like, grief about it in a joking way.

So that experience from all indications of talking to Catherine and people that worked with Catherine Hardwick over the years, like her sets are unique. Like she has such a fluid, almost improvisational style. Like craves authenticity, craves that he craves that feeling in the moment. Was that different than anything you'd ever experienced? Did it feel like a special experience? Just the making of the movie. Yeah.

You know, it's funny because it was so different, I remember the first couple of days thinking like, oh my God, what did, wait, what did I do? And, you know, it was like her first film and you're like, are we, is this going to, is this going to work? But again, I think because everybody threw themselves in head first, and especially like with Holly Hunter sort of, you know, as the elder and the anchor on this thing.

She's like as real as it gets and as talented. talented as it gets. And so once you kind of surrendered to the experience, it was, it was amazing because it did feel she just, she gave us so much freedom. And like, she really respected the actors and the actors experience. And we slept in the house. We, we, you know, me and Holly and Nikki would sleep there sometimes. Like, we really wanted to feel like our home. We helped set the kitchen up. like we put you know when set dressing came in we like put the stuff in the cabinets so that we knew like it felt like our home and so it was like a second scan where we knew where everything was and then yeah it was just like a messy crazy gorilla filmmaking experience where like half the time we were shooting in places we didn't have permission to shoot at one point um steady cam was in a shopping cart they like found a shopping cart on the side of the row and just threw the cameraman and there's like that kind of filmmaking and you're just crossing your fingers going this is either going to be great or it's a disaster and I do remember the first time we saw the film

just sort of being a bit shell-shocked like I can't believe I mean I can but also I can't believe that like our shopping cart setty cam set right I could see a scenario where yeah you walk away from that film being like okay that's going to be a disaster

that's not a usable movie and no like really it could have gone either way not that I didn't have faith in in Catherine, but it's just like, you just never know. And with the subject matter, you know, I actually turned down that film twice because I just didn't trust that somebody was going to do it right. Right. Until I met Catherine, and we sat down, I had a whole conversation about it,

and she showed me her lookbook, and I was like, oh, she actually really gets it. I have to do this movie. And it's really incredible to me how much it stood the test of time and how much people still bring it up. Yeah. And how it's still shocking. Yeah. So ECP, not that it's meant just to be shocking,

but the fact that like it was just so raw and so real that it's stood the test of time, I think. I mean, like, it's hard doing something like that when you're 14 and now that I'm an adult, like looking back, I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, there were probably some moments that I was not like totally comfortable. but you are when you're doing a film like that's sort of the sacrificial lamb in a weird way because you're you're showing people this cautionary tale of what not to do

but there's actual teenagers in it doing the things you're not supposed to do and so it's it's a little like a little double-edged sword but again it's like one of the things I'm I'm most proud of still I think it's funny like what was one of your best performances it would be like it's still when I was 14 and well the good news is you've got current work that we're proud of too sometimes yeah yeah no absolutely yeah and like cajillionaire like there's a lot of things that I'm very very proud of but I yeah I just love that that is still like I think I'll forever be like one of my top three and I was like you know as a kid did did uh did Catherine try to entice you to twilight did you come in and

talk twilight when she was doing it funny I remember her mentioning something while we were filming 13 she was like I got to talk to about this vampire thing that I'm doing and I think I didn't really take it seriously. I was like, sure, you're going to do a vampire movie after this. And then, you know, yeah, yeah, sure enough, it's like the biggest thing in the world. They're fine. Everyone's fine. It's okay.

Yeah, but I was really arbitrary because that was also before there was sort of more of an incentive to hire female directors, you know. Oh, and it opened up a whole new audience. It was like, suddenly the studios were like, oh, young women can open a movie. Exactly. Who knew? Exactly. And it changed the game for, like, young actors, too, because I definitely remember

being that age and looking for projects. And I mean, there weren't a lot of options when you're a teenager. It's like, you want to be on the Disney Channel or you want to be on Nickelodeon? What are you doing? Either way, you know, you get a smile and do a dance. And I was like, it's just not what I'm into. And so I feel like 13 sort of opened the door back up for like, oh, right. You know, teenagers are also like human beings with a very deep interior life that we should explore more and sort of pay our respects to, so. It's so cool. It occurs to me as I go to this next clip. You've worked with some iconoclastic female filmmakers in your career in particular.

And of course, Julie Tameor is that, a true visionary. And across the universe is a hell of a big swing. It doesn't get bigger than like, okay, we're going to do a Beatles musical. Beatles musical and just the audacious visual technique casting you. But casting Jim, Jim Sturge, so I think it was his first film. crazy um let's take a little this is a brief snippet of you singing just again one of those iconic songs um this is i think if i fell let's take a look if i fell in love with you would you promise to be true and help me understand

I've been in love before and I found that love was more than just holding hands if I give my heart to you I must be sure from the very

restored that you would love me more than her. So you've got a pretty good voice. Let's just say, let's put it out there. That's the other side of Evan Rachel Wood that we should mention is that you're just this extraordinary singer clearly. And like talk to me a little bit about, I don't know, the privilege and the pressure of, the most iconic songs

in the history of songs on that set. I remember hearing through the grapevine that Julie Tamor was working on at the time an untitled Beatles musical it was in the works. And the second I heard that,

it was just there was no other option. I had to do it. I don't think I've ever wanted anything more. I was like, I was such a huge Beatles fan and I just knew this was my. And so I've never been more nervous for an audition. I remember leaving the audition in my back was covered in sweat, just from the nerves of wanting it so bad and having to keep my cool. And I sang, it won't be long.

And if I fell in the audition and talked to Julie for a few minutes and then left the audition going, okay, then either went really great or really bad. I had no idea. And I was halfway down the street and somebody ran out of the building and chased me. And we're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Can you come back? We want to like read you with some people. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We ran back. Started reading with people. And then, yeah, and then I think I had to wait maybe like a month or two to hear an answer. And then I was filming running with scissors with Ryan Murphy. and my agents came to set and I was like, that's weird my agents are coming to set and they told me that

that I was going to be Lucy and I literally cried I started crying and it was one of the most incredible experiences of my life I turned 18 filming and so I was out of my own for the first time in New York City

singing Beatles songs with some of the most kind intelligent people still all very close close friends of mine. And yeah, just the privilege of getting to watch Julie work and to know her mind. And how much she really loves people and art and what she does. And like, she can get kind of like a bad rap sometimes, but I really think it's because

she's an uncompromising woman. Yes. I know a lot of directors, like male directors that are way more. And they're, but, you know, they're like hailed as a genius because they're so difficult. And Julie's not difficult, but she knows what she wants. Yeah. She's not going to compromise. She's like, no, no, no.

Like, we strive for excellence. And she throws you way out of your comfort zone. Yeah. Like when she came to us and said, you know, I was watching musicals recently and I can just tell when people are lip syncing. So we're going to do it live. And we were already like a month into recording. thinking like take our shoes off after this we can relax the recordings are done we're lip sync this

she was like no no no I think we're gonna do it live so as if it wasn't stressful enough you know now now we gotta do it perfectly on the day yeah that scene that we just watched was live on the set and it wasn't even supposed to linger in that shot for that long but Julie loved the take and the performance so much that she couldn't she didn't cut out of it so that's why it's such a long

right opening shot um but it was yeah it was it was one of the best times of my life like i don't even i don't even know where to begin with that experience should i be surprised that you obviously you weren't frozen too in recent years which is a musical performance but i mean you who have so much talent and so much love for music you haven't done like a full-on live action musical since then have you been up for a bunch of these is it just not been the right time or the right fit or what's happened so yeah one one i turned down

because it didn't feel right. And another one, I won't say which one because I don't want to be disrespectful to the actress that did do it. But I was really pregnant when I auditioned for one very high profile musical

that they wanted me to do and it was like the timing. It just didn't work out. And so, you know, I got sent a big bouquet of flowers that was like, Next time. Next time we'll do it.

So, but I think it's just because, you know, something, something's waiting. Something's waiting. It will happen. If not on film, then definitely on Broadway. That's a dream of the way. You have to stay here in New York and do Broadway. I got to. Please.

I'm dying to. Let's sneak in one more clip if we can. This is around the same period. And like you talk about uncompromising filmmakers. And you think of someone like Darren Aronofsky. Certainly. He's someone like that. And, but I have great admiration for his work as I do, Julie's.

This is the wrestler, which is maybe his most stripped down piece of work, though. And it's such extraordinary performances between you and Mickey. And, yeah, let's take a look at you and Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler. Hey, Stephanie. Where are you going? What do you want? I just have to talk to you. I can't really talk right now.

I really need to talk to you. I have school. You're going to school? Yeah. Well, that's great. Listen, I had a heart attack. And I just thought I needed to tell you. We're such an asshole.

What do you want from me? What do you want? I just been alone and you're my daughter. You're my daughter and I love you and I just needed to see you. That's bullshit. You want me to take care of you. Yes. Well, I'm not gonna do that.

Because what the fuck were you when I needed you to take care of me? You know, on all my birthdays, which you never even made one, you probably don't even know what it is. So you know what, no, I don't care if you had a heart attack. Fuck you! I love that movie so much. I love Darren's work of Mickey's work and Mickey's work in that. And yeah, it takes something to tell Mickey Rourke to go fuck off in a scene.

Our first meeting. Right. So he didn't want to meet you, right? Offset. Is that the idea? So in the zone, that whole film. I really, we really rarely interacted on set. You know, I only really got to know him like after filming.

and we became friends, but, yeah, so that was our first meeting. When I walk out the door and we do that scene, that was like, the first words that we spoke to each other was that. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, we really, like, kept our distance on set because he just, he really wanted to be in the zone. But we did such, such beautiful work.

And, you know, again, like, he was just, he's just got such an ability to open up and be vulnerable, you know, and also be like the biggest badass ever. And it's a rare, you know, combination, you know, of vulnerability and strength. Well, you talk early on about sort of just like when you open yourself up and that's when like the true connection happens. And yeah, this like tough guy, this like consummate tough guy got the best accolades of his career when he just like finally kind of like really let it open. Yeah. Yeah. those flaws and show, yeah.

100%. And it was filmed a lot like the filming reminded me of 13 and that, you know, like, the cinematographer has the camera on their shoulder. And it's just, it's very documentary style and it's very loose and it's like very much about the acting. And Darren was like similar to Catherine in a way in that like he really cares about the actor's experience

and their input. And like he wrote a back story. story for the character and you know when I had to like get ready for a big emotional scene like he would come like sit with me for a moment like it's unheard of a director like leaving set to go sit with an actor to like

get them into the scene like they don't do that but he did and it and it it shows like it shows that the actors feel comfortable enough and and like taken seriously and respected enough to give you everything they got

because we're not going to give it up you know if someone doesn't appreciate. No, nor should you. That's just a small sampling of the amazing work. I do want to mention, not beyond Westworld, I'm very excited. You worked with one of my favorite human beings, Daniel Radcliffe, on a, I know it was a short shoot, but Dan says it's like his favorite movie he's ever done. Weird Al.

I agree. We both said, I was like, I was like, oh, no, I messed up. He's like, why was it? Because I'm only going to want to do comedies now. this was so fun. We had so much fun. So to contextualize, this is a kind of a biopic, not like a straight

ahead thing as you wouldn't expect it to be from Weird Al. I think he co-wrote the script even. And it's Daniel Radcliffe as Weird Al. And it's our buddy Evan Rachel Wood as Madonna. As Madonna. Did you have Madonna and your repertoire prior to this? No, I watched videos for like a month

beforehand to try to get, because Madonna's 80, early 80s voice is a little different than Madonna in the later years. Like she, you know, I mean, she's Madonna. She goes through many different like evolutions and changes. So there's a very specific Madonna. Is it still in there? Huh?

I don't want to give it away. I want to give it away because it's too, it's good. It's good. But I don't want to give it away. But I remember like the first day when we started everybody came up to me afterwards and Weird Al came up to me and he was like, oh my God. Your line readings.

Like it sounds so, it sounds like Madonna. I'm like, good, good. That's the point. The wardrobe must have been insane. I'm sure the wardrobe was unbelievable. The wardrobe was amazing. We had so much fun. It was so, and I agree with you.

Like, Daniel Radcliffe is also one of my favorite humans. Like, I was always such a fan. But, you know, sometimes it's not until you're, like, really working opposite somebody. We're like, oh, you're the real deal. Like, you are legit. You're a great actor, and you're going to be around for a while. And no one has an excuse to be an asshole, by the way, after Daniel Recliffe's the nicest person to everybody and he has every right to like not be if you wanted to be right he he he said hello to

my child on on set and i was like i don't even i can't even imagine how many times you've had to do this you know like because i was like i'm a bad mom if i don't if i if i don't facilitate this meeting and so can you can you do me can do me a solid can you do me here like how many times does he had to do that. And he was just so lovely and so sweet. I think he still genuinely, you know, likes brightening up people's days, even though I'm sure it has to be exhausting. We're not going to, we don't have time to give the, this subject matter, the kind of time it's worked. But I do want to mention Phoenix Rising was a doc that came earlier this year, which is a profound piece of work. And talk again about opening yourself up. I know that must have been quite

the journey for you. Can you just talk as much as you're comfortable with, just Like where activism is in your life right now, balancing that and balancing that passion and kind of making some good from the trauma you've gone through in your life. Yeah. I think, you know, kind of back to how I was raised to view acting, I think sort of transformed and translated into activism later in my life because it's about truth-telling and vulnerability. And those are things you need to.

when you're acting, but you also need them in advocacy work, you know, you need to be able to have the hard, uncomfortable conversations and to be seen in all your imperfect glory, you know, and like if we're really going to examine the problem, we all have to start getting comfortable with putting everything out on the table, even the stuff that, you know, we may not always be proud of because we're all human and everybody has those things, some worse than others, but it's about having the hard conversations. And so, yeah, that experience of, because I am a very private person. I mean, even though, like, I'm an actor and I'm in the public eye, I really actually try to keep my real life private.

But I knew that this was just, this was the time to be seen and that I was going to do this and do it once and do it for the right reasons. And my family jumped on board to support me and to tell their truths. and I know it was uncomfortable for everybody to be exposed in that way. But it also brought us closer, I think, because it gave us all sort of space and permission to feel all the messy feelings, really processed what had happened, you know, because I think there are victims of, you know, domestic violence. But it really affects the entire family. And anybody who loves the person going through it, it's traumatic.

It's, it's, you know, on not just one level, but many levels. And so, yeah, anyway, it was, it was very cathartic and I feel a huge weight off of my back and proud of what we did, even though, you know, really, that's just the tip of the iceberg. There's still so much more and so much more that we couldn't put in the documentary and much more of the story, but this is, this will get people started. Yeah, yeah. And all I really wanted to do was educate people about the cycles and the red flags and use it not just as, you know, a way to expose somebody dangerous, but to educate people, you know, about the bigger picture so that you can get ahead of this, you know, so we can try to prevent it. Well, for those that want to learn more, please do look up Phoenix Rising and Evans' amazing work.

I mean, you know, I'm sure I know for a fact you've helped many people by telling your difficult story. And I can only imagine how tough it was and how tough it is day to day. But you're doing a lot of good in the universe. So thank you for that. So circling back, Westworld season four. That's a hard segue, but here we are. Season four. Makes sense.

We got to do it, right? What's out ahead past promoting Westworld? Do you know the next gig? Are you, because I know you wrote a script a little while back? Are you still trying to get something to direct? I had to put all that on hold to do the Phoenix Act and like my whole life sort of got put on hold and the Phoenix Act took years of constant work and lobbying again like what you see in the documentary is like this much of what we actually you know had to do and so I think now I definitely want to continue activism and I'm sure you know what we're work in the domestic violence field is always going to be a part of my life, even if it's, you know, I'm just like volunteering at my local shelter. Like I just, you know, it's just

something I need to do now. But I definitely, because I was in it for so many years, I'm taking a little, a little bit of a healing break to just sort of regroup and, you know, regulate my nervous system again, you know, so that I can go in for around too. So right now, advocacy is a, a bit on hold so that I can catch up to, you know, some other aspects of my life, but it will always be there. So yeah, I have weird owl movie coming out in November. And then I'm still working on music. I've been working on some solo stuff. Nice. Maybe one of the high-em sisters is involved. I don't know. You're buddies with them, aren't you? That goes way back, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, high school. So, yeah, we all might be finally making some music together. Very cool.

There's going to be some cool stuff coming out soon. More reasons to catch up. Yes. Evan and Zane will start playing live again now that everything's sort of opening back up and everybody's going back out on tour. So, yeah. Love it. All right.

Well, let's do something fun and silly with Dan when Weird Al comes out. It's good to see you, as always. Congratulations. Season 4 of Westworld, as if you guys didn't know already on HBO, check it out. It's, you know, I love big swings, whether it's across the universe or Westworld, heady sci-fi. this one goes for the fences and it usually delivers it does deliver um it's a good one uh evan thanks so much for the time thanks for joining us on 92 n y and happy say confused yeah good to see you man

and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts i'm a big podcast person i'm daisy ridley and i definitely wasn't pleasure to do this by josh Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases.

We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Yorgo slantimo. Moses, Bagonia, Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar Wright's The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.