Happy Sad Confused - Evangeline Lilly

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

Evangeline Lilly knows diehard fandoms, from LOST to Tolkien and now the MCU! She chats about it all including her latest, ANT-MAN & THE WASP: QUANTUMANIA, with Josh this week. To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to Josh's youtube channel here! Check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! VUORI -- Go to vuori.com/HSC and discover the versatility of Vuori Clothing. BETTERHELP -- This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/HSC and get on your way to being your best self. HONEY -- If you don’t already have Honey, you could be straight up missing out. Get PayPal Honey for FREE at JoinHoney.com/HSC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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On September 26th, experience what is being called the best movie of the year. This is the end of the line. Not for you. Leonardo DiCaprio, Sean Pan, Benicio Del Toro, Tiana Taylor, Chase Infinity. Let's go! Here I come. One battle after another. Only in theater, September 26th.

Experience it in IMAX. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Evangeline Lilly, from Wasp and the Hobbit to Ant Man and the Wasp. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz, and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. We have the very talented star of Ant Man and the Wasp, Quantum Mania. to be precise.

Evangeline Lilly is on the show today, a first-time guest on the podcast. I'm actually kind of shocked she is. I was sure she had been on the podcast. This is what happens after you've been doing the pod for nine years. It all just starts to bleed together. The MTV interviews, the Comedy Central interviews, the moderating events.

My mind is just starting to become a giant, amorphous blob of interview. knowledge or lack thereof. Suffice it to say of Angeline has not been on the podcast and I was thrilled to have her on. She's somebody that I've known in different capacities over the years and to finally sit down with her for an extended chat about her

life and career. Just a blast. Before we get to the main event though, other things to mention, well, it's been a busy time in Josh Harrow's happy, sad, confused world. We did basically back-to-back live events with 92 NY. You know I love these events, guys. And if you are in the New York area ever, please try and come out

because, man, these are fun. We did Mark Maron last week. It was actually at the Museum of Modern Art, even though it was a 92 NY event. Semantics, it doesn't matter. And then we did a sold-out 92-N-Y event with the cast of Star Trek Picard. And if you're already feeling FOMO, don't worry, that will be a podcast very soon. I think we have it on the books for next week, actually. So very soon, and man, that was a magical night. But we'll talk about that later. But suffice it to say, sold out, Patrick Stewart and Company. Wow, big moment.

Yeah, other things I mentioned? I don't know. It's a busy, weird time of a year. We're kind of in that kind of like slowish period if there is one as we careen towards the Oscars. It felt like I was like in awards mode for like two or three months. And now it's like, oh, wait, we still have another month or so to go before the Oscars. So there's kind of a little anticlimactic vibe I'm feeling like I caught up on all the Oscar movies a while ago and I guess everyone else is starting to now.

Like that's the weird like cadence of my job versus I guess the outside world. It's like I see stuff so early and that it's like, wait, women talking is just coming out now? I was talking about that four months ago. So I apologize if I sound obnoxious when I'm like, you guys got to see women talking in September when it's three months before. comes out. But all I can do is live my life and tell you what I'm seeing and loving. So suffice to say, you should see women talking. You should see tar. You should see Fablewomenes. You should see everything everywhere all at once. These are all great movies. I'm not going to say you have to see Top Gun Maverick because you've seen Top Gun Maverick. By the way, I went to a

movie theater, paid for the tickets like a normal human being, bought the, what did I buy? I almost did Red Vines. You know what? I went with the Rice Krispy Treat. It seemed like the least, the option that was going to be the least likely to kill me. And I went to see Avatar. I went to see Avatar. It was kind of a goodbye to one of my favorite theaters in New York City, one that I have a lot of affection for. The Union Square, I think it's a regal, I think it's a Riegel, multiplex is closing. I don't get it, guys. New York City, all our movie theaters are closing. The Ziegfeld closed a few years ago. The Lincoln Plaza cinemas closed a few years ago. They're like no theaters left. There's nowhere to go see movies. We still have Lincoln Square,

which is one that is important to me from growing up. But it bums me out. I know L.A.'s face the same thing with the arc light, but I guess it's just a sign of the times. Anyway, all of which is to say, I want to go one more time to Union Square to that theater. um and bid it adieu and i did it by seeing avatar the way of water which was again fantastic my third go around and i just i love that movie and i'm sure you guys feel the same way you have like movie theaters that you grew up with that you have affection for that you associate with specific memories and i have so many so anyway you know it's important to mark these moments and say goodbye if you can to the the places that mean a lot to you so that that's that's what i did i

I went and I paid homage to the Union Square movie theater gods. Other things to mention, not much. I guess I'll mention, as always, you can watch our episodes on YouTube. The channel continues to grow. I'm so thrilled with how quickly it's grown. YouTube.com slash Josh Horowitz. Please give it a like and subscribe. Check out our Patreon because it's such a nice, cool community.

I've gotten a chance to meet a bunch of the Patreon members. recently. And they're awesome. They're good people. It makes me so happy that like the fans of HappySat Confused are like-minded in the best possible way. It doesn't mean like we all, whatever, are the same people, but like they love pop culture and movies and TV and actors and filmmakers. And it's just like all good vibes when I meet them. So anyway, Patreon.com slash HappySaid Confused. We've got the merch. We've got the early access, the videos, the the free tickets to the events if you sign up to the executive producer level. We've got, I think, seven spots left in the executive producer tier.

So get in on that, guys. Now's the time. I guess that's it. Let's get to the main event. Not so much of a preamble today, but that's okay because you're really here for the conversation. Evangeline Lilly. Okay, so in brief, Evangeline is fantastic. A really good interview because she kind of doesn't give an F.

In the best way, she will say what is on her mind, and it's gotten her this far, and it's really remarkable to look at the career that she has because she's, look, she's worked steadily since Lost. Lost was essentially her first acting role. Crazy to think. And she didn't even have, like, acting aspirations. Again, crazy story. Lost, the Hobbit, and now the Ant Man film. She has these three crazy. ginormous fandoms in a career that doesn't have a lot of other stuff to it, to be honest. Like she's done some other bits and bobs here, but like the ratio of the big stuff to other stuff is crazy. She was also in real steel, which frankly was a huge movie that people loved. So she's fantastic. We talk about it all in this conversation.

As she said at the end, like we went a little, you know, a little more thoughtful, a little more deep than we usually do. we usually have sillier conversations. So I'm glad, don't worry, there are laughs in here, too. But I'm glad I had a chance to catch up with her. The new movie, of course, is Ant Man and the Wasp. Quantum Media, quantum mania, it's the third in the Ant Man trilogy, again, directed by Peyton Reed. It is a big, wild movie guys.

It is, it's interesting because it's kind of the juxtaposition of that family story. That, you know, Scott Lang and his daughter, Cassie, and now hope in the family and hope's parents. So it has that family dynamic, but the setting is the quantum realm. I mean, we're, no spoilers, but you're not in normal earth for much time in this. You're in the quantum realm,

and that is a trippy, crazy place to be for 90% of a movie. But it's anchored by these great characters and performances, and then you throw in, guys, Jonathan Majors, I'm not he's the real deal this guy this guy's amazing and he may or may not be on the podcast soon there's a little tease for you oh and the only other thing I'll say is as a old-time Michelle Pfeiffer fan from back in the day she's got a lot to do in this and it really pleased me it made me very happy Michelle Pfeiffer kind of owns the first half of the movie so anyway no spoilers I didn't spoil anything don't worry go in enjoy it's a fun wild Marvel

movie, checks all the boxes, you'll dig it. And you'll dig this conversation. I got a chance to meet up with Evangeline in person in New York City. And it's fantastic. I hope you guys enjoy. Remember to review, give a rating on iTunes to Happy Say I Confused, spread the good word, follow me on social media, Joshua Horowitz, and enjoy this conversation with the star of Ant Men and the Wasp. Quantum Mania, Evangeline Willard. Evangeline, first-time guest on the podcast. I'm actually shocked. Again, we've done this so many different ways, but never

officially on the podcast. So welcome. Well, podcasts are the new thing now. They're the hot thing. I mean, the last time I was doing the rounds with a film, I don't think anybody was listening to podcasts. Yeah, it's the, look, radio is back, apparently. We just call it podcasts now.

Yeah, exactly. It's kind of exciting if you think about it because it means that people aren't requiring so much stimulation, but they're willing to actually just listen to voices who have something to say. We say that as we shoot this on camera, too. So it's basically a lie. We were saying when you walked in, it's always fun to see somebody at different stages in the journey, and this is another exciting moment with Quantummania coming out. I saw you very briefly a couple months ago. You gave me one of the fun, like, silly moments in the last

couple years where I was talking to Kobe Smolders at Comic-Con. And you interview bombed. I love interview bombing. You're good at it, clearly. Well, I think I'm actually terrible at it because instead of bombing, I just took over. I actually kicked her out of her own interview. We were fading. It was over. Oh, I didn't feel it. It was a hot toss. You guys were in fifth year and went all the way to be in line and I just cut right in. No, you should not feel that way. It was a glorious moment. But it reminds me that, look, you have a long lineage with ComicCon for instance. So let's start there. Because that was probably, I would guess, early on in the Lost years, like, that was probably a big moment where you were like, oh, I'm in a whole new stratosphere.

I'm in a weird, exciting new world. Like, do you remember early Conns, early Comic-Con? The first Comic-Con I ever went to was San Diego Comic-Con. And it was in 2005, before the first episode of Lost ever even aired. Oh, wow. Yeah. And we had a cult following already. we filled one of those massive 3,000 people auditoriums, and nobody had even seen the show.

And I was like, oh, oh, first of all, where am I? Which is the proper response, by the way. And second of all, what have I got myself into? That was actually when I perfected my signature, because for the first time in my life, I had to sign it about 600 times in a row when I stood between Dominic Monaghan and Matthew Fox I did a poster signing, and I was very competitive back then. I was a competitive young woman. And so I turned the whole thing into a competition of, like, who would be waiting for who?

Oh, I love it. The signature was slower than who's. And my signature got very simple and very sloppy in one comic con visit, and it stayed that way. It just went to E.L. As opposed to the whole... I mean, that's a long name to write out. Let's be real. Yeah, Evangeline had to go.

It's E. Lilly. Yeah. But it does strike me, look. I mean, you have been associated with these franchises of the franchises. franchises these fandoms that have such passion behind them and like that's a lot of love and energy to receive early on was it kind of like as exciting as it was is that I mean I can spawn like I don't know I feel like I'd feel a panic attack if I was like feeling that kind of energy coming at me with with no experience I did I did in fact I don't think back then

panic attacks were a buzzword yet right like nobody was undiagnosed panic attacks yeah and but I can say that on my first press tour for the show after the first season we did New York up front and then I went on to Europe and before I went on to Europe I had this meltdown in a hotel room in New York I called my parents sobbing in a bathtub I mean it's really something straight out of a great movie and I was just like I just want to go home yeah I just want to go home I don't want to do this anymore I hate it I don't want to do this it was really overwhelming and of course my parents being good rural Canadian parents were like you just

come home right now. Screw those guys. You come home and we'll make you some chicken noodle soup and we'll take care of you. And I was like, I don't think it works that way. I think I have a six-year contract. Amazing. So over the years, has that gotten easier? What's the adaptation process to that?

Because clearly you're not in the bathtub sobbing now. Well, not every day anyway. I'm outside this morning, obviously. It's gotten, it's completely different now. For sure. It's an interesting thing to be able to say, I've gotten used to it. So when being in the MCU,

what I get asked about a lot is the fandom and how crazy is it and what was the adjustment period like for you to get used to that. And for me, I feel like it's such a weird answer to say like, oh, it didn't phase me. You know, I've sort of, this has been 20 years

of this. This is who my fans are. I am, like, for lack of a better way of putting it, like a Comic Con Queen, you know? I spend a lot of time at Comic-Con. cons to, you know, go and see my fans and the people who love these franchises and are passionate about them and they have given me a beautiful career. And so I've relaxed about it. I feel way more at ease with fan attention. I've even, and this is a very recent development, just I would say in the last couple years, I've started to finally get comfortable with fame. That took me 20 years.

That took a long time. So what, parts that out for me a little bit. So what does that mean? Well, it just, for me, I always had this resistance because I kept wanting to somehow translate to people, I'm just like you. I'm a normal person. Like, please don't treat me any differently or think of me any differently. That's an inappropriate placement of your energy. Yes. And I finally just gave up and was like, you know what? If people have you on a pedestal and then you show up and you kick the pedestal down. Right. You're diminishing their own. Yeah, you're actually. not, who are you helping? What is that doing? And what is that saying about your self-worth? Yep. Like, that you don't actually believe that you're good enough or in some way, like, special to be able to be put on a pedestal. Like, let's examine that and say, do you not have like a hundred million hearts of love to give these people? Like, that's something I've always felt. So is that not pedestal worthy? Like, can't you find the things about yourself that you could, you could flaunt, that you could strut about that you could like do the hall the the starlit walk or like give them what they're

looking for they want you to be something that if you dig deep enough you realize you have self-faith like I believe in myself why can't I just own that and and accept it well and we're talking about which often comes up in my conversations with folks which is imposter syndrome which is real for all of us I feel like and anyone worth their salt I always say has it like if you don't have it then like I'm worried about oh puf because I've got it in spate so I don't have Okay. But what you're saying is like finding a healthy balance, I think, between still having that and, yes, realizing like you're still Evangeline from Alberta, et cetera, but like that

you can also play the part and have the self-worth and know what you, what you bring to a role and bring to your career that is of worth to people. Yes. And also to remember that, like, Nicole, Evangeline Lilly and Alberta always felt like there was something special. about her and that somehow it wasn't like that she was destined for something. But then the minute that happens, it's like, oh, what, me? No, I'm just, you know, that's ridiculous.

I'm just a normal person. Like, can there be a balance and can there be a dance between those two things? And can I have the humility and the grace to know that I am just like you and therefore not have to lord over you or put myself above you? But then also the self-love and the respect for your adoration of me to acknowledge it and make space for it and allow for it. There's also, I would guess, like, again, if we were talking in the Lost Years,

that was, like, a crazy phenomenon, and it was right out of the gate. It was basically the first acting gig, essentially. And then, like, you know, with the passage of a time, now it's like, oh, you're not a one-trick pony. We've done the Hobbit. We've done three Ant-Man films. Like, your ratio of, like, franchises,

beloved films and TV projects to just, like, your entire body work is insane. It's ridiculous, but I attribute that to J.J. Abrams and Brian Burke and Damon Lindelof because by putting me in that cult phenomenon at the very onset of my career, I feel like they set the stage for this because then the folks who loved lost within the industry are the type of folks who are making these geek fandom franchises and they were like, we loved freckles, right? And then freckles put me in the position to be Tauriel and then Freckles and Towers and Towers and Towers. I'll put me in the position to be, I think actually as the story goes, where the idea for me to play The Wasp came from, or Hope Van Dine, was that Edgar Wright and Brad Winderbaum were watching The Hobbit while they were prepping this movie and all of a sudden the penny dropped and one of them was like, oh my God, Evangeline Lily for this part, right? And so it feeds into itself. It makes sense. So, okay, so talk to me a little bit about, I know the famous story for those

and don't know is that basically there wasn't like a giant acting career prior to lost in fact you really weren't not interested in an acting career at all um so give me a sense of okay you get the part the learning curve on that set like when you think back to the first weeks on that like did you know where your mark was did you know like when i think back to the first weeks i feel sick to my stomach i still have that sick feeling i was i it was very very intense i didn't even know how to read a call sheet to know when I was supposed to arrive at work. I didn't know where I was supposed to go. I didn't know. And then there were little things like AD's always opening my car door for me. I got really annoyed. I was like, stop it. What are you doing? I'm not the queen. Like,

let me open my door. Stuff that was like really distracting from what I was really there to do. And then on top of it, I mean, I'd never had to do 10 takes of the same scene and keep it fresh. I'd I'd never had to try to take direction in six different ways. I mean, I'd never done any of this. So I was using my co-stars as my teachers. I would watch them. And you're never supposed to do this in a scene. You're supposed to be present.

But I would watch them and be mentally taking notes. Like, oh, Terry Quinn just did that really cool thing. I don't remember how to do that. Or, like, you know, Harold Peronow is just so present. And, like, there's just different things that I picked up from each of them. And that continues on to this day. I mean, I just got to do a film with Michelle Pfeiffer, like talk about an education.

You know, she's amazing. So when you do have occasions to stumble upon early work in Lost, like, are you seeing, because your performance is fantastic and maybe, well, I don't know, is it, is there something that's maybe just like raw and just sort of like you weren't overthinking it that was working?

Or do you, are you, it sounds like you're critical of it. You don't, you see kind of the motors moving or what? I feel like the raw magic is, what people received. Yes. It is not what I was seeing. I would, we would have lost parties where the cast would get together to watch the show and when it would be a Kate-centric episode, I would want to curl in a hole and die

because I knew I was bad. And I still to this day will stand by the fact that I can watch the first couple seasons and I cringe because I'm not very good. And I do feel like season three was a turning point where I went from panic, figure it out, just shoot from the hip, feel it, go with my gut. to, I hate this, I don't want to do this, get me out of here, to, oh, I guess if I'm here and I'm stuck and I'm going to stay, I should figure it out. And that was in season three. And I started to actually try to, you know, learn my craft. Can you give me a high point of like the

absurd, like the absurd cultural zeitgeisty moment of loss? Like the, the, what I don't know if it was a Rolling Stone Annie Leibowitz shoot or like something insane that felt like, okay, we've, we're now in bananas territory. Yeah, only, I can only know those things by looking back in hindsight, because at the time, I wasn't a cinephile, I wasn't a kid who read magazines, I knew nothing about Hollywood, I didn't watch entertainment tonight or anything to sort of cue me off to what was in the cultural zeit guys. So when I was offered a Rolling Stone cover, I had no idea how bloody cool that was. In hindsight, I'm like, holy shit, I was on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine. But that didn't mean much to me at the time. I mean, it was like, okay, sure, whatever

I got to do for my job. Or, you know, doing, I did a Cool Water endorsement campaign and Peter Lindbergh shot it. And I, everyone was freaking out. My makeup artist was like, is Peter Lindberg? Oh my God. I can't believe it. And I was like, who? I don't care. Just, I was, I was annoyed that I had to be in a bathing suit. I was annoyed that it was a sexualized suit and, like, shoot. And I just was mad at everyone for being there and being a part it. And then there were the fan things. Like one time Dominic Monaghan and I were out for dinner in Europe somewhere. And there was a lineup to our dinner table at the restaurant of people wanting to take pictures and get autographs. They lined up. And I was like, what is going on? I'm just trying

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We were talking before about, you know, like finding your own self-worth and kind of owning it. In the course of those, I guess, about six years or so, like, did you also, like, find a voice on set at a certain point? Because, again, early on, you probably don't even know you have a voice and don't you're entitled to it. Yeah. I'm still working on that. That has come with middle age. So something shifted in me when I turned forward. 40 and you know in the years surrounding it where there was first of all there was a cultural shift

because of the me two times that movement that had a profound impact on me and then also i was just in that stage of life where i'm shifting into a different space and it's really helped to empower me and on ant man in the was quantum mania i feel like that was the first time that i ever really made my voice heard in a creative and collaborative capacity as opposed to trying to make my voice heard and there is a very big difference. And up until that one, I don't feel that I had ever succeeded. And it was incredibly rewarding

and very, very satisfying to feel like, okay, I'm a grown woman and I'm finally being heard. Yeah, and my character's name is in the title. I deserve probably a little, to weigh in a little bit. You hope.

You hope. But so much of that is on them and so much that is on you. and one of the things I used to do is I would cut myself off at the knees before I even started. I would come in with an idea and instead of saying,

hey guys, I have this really great idea, let's talk about it. I would be like, this is probably a really dumb idea. You probably won't like it and you probably won't use it, but I just want to say it anyway. Like I would just always,

you know, I didn't have that self-assurance to come in and say, in my head, they might not like it, but I think it's a great idea. So I'm going to represent it as such and properly represent myself. So is there an example you can cite

in terms of something that you brought to the table? table for quantum mania specifically that they actually received and absorbed into yeah well i mean it's sort of interesting because what's being received and absorbed during production has nothing to do with what will actually happen in the editing room and what the movie will turn out to be they're very they're very separated events so um when but when i first got the script i had lots of notes and lots of thoughts it was a fantastic script it was the best um sort of standing script i'd ever read for ant man because often they're not quite

finished when you read them. This one was really good. I still had lots of notes. I still had, you know, some suggestions and things I wanted to point out and an offer. And when I got on that Zoom, instead of having a private conversation with somebody, I actually said, I'd like the producer, Stephen Roussard, I'd like the writer Jeff Loveness, I'd like Peyton Reed, and I'd like to have a conversation because I felt like that's my best shot at being heard.

Yes. Because if it's one-on-one, that's just that person's opinion versus yours. and they probably have their own ideas and their own visions already kind of set in stone. As soon as it's a group dynamic, it's much more collaborative by nature. And it really worked, and I felt like it was wonderful because one other, one of those men might say, God, that's a really smart idea. Thank you. And I could see it impact the other two and the way they were thinking about what I was saying.

And then suddenly, like, it started to flow. Instead of it being just like three people listening to me, it became a fluid conversation that felt really exciting. and mutual. Does that also go hand in hand with the other creative endeavors in recent years? And we've talked before, and I know the Squicker-Wonkers books is something that's close to your heart. And I heard you in another conversation saying you were writing a TV project. I don't if that is Squicker-Wonkers or something else. But I would think that all goes hand-in-hand. Like you're not a hired gun anymore. You are thinking of all the parts. Yeah, I really am.

And I think that's one of the things I had to really acknowledge was, hey, listen, look at what's happening, you're getting very frustrated creatively. So instead of bringing that frustration to a role and to a poor director who's going to be subjected to your creative ideas that are like not necessarily appropriate for his film, why don't you just make your own stuff? Like that's, you got to put that somewhere, because if you don't put that somewhere, you're going to keep bringing that frustration to acting. And as we all know, or at least you know, I don't know if your listeners know, but I've been a somewhat reluctant actress for my entire career. I've retired thrice in the 20 years of been in this industry. She's with Daniel Day Lewis of super heroines. Somebody else said that about,

oh, they were saying, oh, so you're the Tom Brady of Hollywood. You just keep retiring and coming back and retiring and coming back. Makes it more dramatic, though, every time she's back. Well, I just, it's like, I got to stop telling people that I think I've retired, because it's going to seem like it's just a, it's just a bit. A bit, exactly. So I've stopped saying it. But because, you know, that's always been there. And I think that's always partly been there because my first passion was writing and acting was something that just happened. And if in order to survive the trials of acting, it is a very difficult profession on many different levels. You have to love it. It has to be your passion or it will eat you alive. And so I think what I'm just doing is

making sure that I'm finding outlets to express all the other things that I actually love to do more. Well, not to mention, and I'm sure the early experiences, and when I say that I mean even prior to lost must have made you a bit jaded. Like I was looking up just sort of seeing early stuff and I like I found like a G4 kind of thing where you're essentially like modeling like a. Oh, oh yes. Oh God, talk about degrading. Yeah, you must have felt like a live link's right commercial.

No, I mean, watching them back even, I kind of get like that cringy like gross feeling in my tummy because I'm like, ew, I was cute and I was young and they got me like a little pop top and low rise jeans and like I'm hawking gaming gear. Yeah, I was very jaded going into it because I wasn't even going into it with the hopes of becoming a famous actress. I was going into it with the hopes of paying my way through university

and then I felt like I had to kind of degrade myself to do that. So I had a very bad taste in my mouth about the whole acting business, period. But that's because I was in the lowest end of it. I mean, doing extra work in commercials isn't exactly glamorous. Totally. Okay, so back into the chronology a little bit,

We were talking Lost, and we'll come back to the Ant Man films. But after Lost, one of the first retirements happens, I think. That's right. Nailed it, yes. Right after Real Steel. I did Lost. And then I did Real Steel right on the tail end of the end of Sixth Season of Lost. And when we did reshoots for Real Steel, I was pregnant with my first baby.

And I was like, I'm done. Can we mention Real Steel though for a second? Because there's so much love for that film still. And it's a great film, Sean Levy, the nicest man on the planet. The nicest man on the planet. Like insane director and now of Stranger Thames. things, making a Star Wars movie, apparently, I don't know, Evangeline, you might want to hit up your old friend.

Oh, yeah, right? When Brian Burke and J.J. Abrams first did Star Wars, I reached out to Brian. I was like, I want to be Leah. He was like, well, Leah's going to be Leah. I was like, oh, okay, okay, I get it. Carrie Fisher, all right. Worth another shot, though, with Sean. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, even though I'm in retirement again, if there

was a project that would pull me out, it would be a Sean Levy project. He's just a wonderful director and life's too short to work with anyone that isn't wonderful and I'm way too old to waste my time on people who are assholes and so I would be there for Sean I mean I really have a very special place in my heart for him. He was a wonderful person to work with.

Apparently they're finally at least doing something with the Real Steel thing. I think they're doing a Disney Plus show but I assume that has nothing to do with your characters or anything. It's a new thing. I don't think it does. I know that there was this sort of oopsie moment with Real Steel when they realized that they marketed the movie completely wrong and if they had

marketed it appropriately, it probably would have had a sequel because it would have had a huge following. Because eventually, once the right audience found it on the streaming platforms, which is families, not testosterone-driven young boys, then it became like a cult classic. There is a huge following for it now. So yeah, I haven't heard about the TV show, but I know, I don't know what it is, but I'm not involved. Okay, so before Ant Man, were you, as I recall, you were either fan casted or real casted in other superhero kind of stuff. Like there was even talk that you, like true or false, did you meet with like a Joss Whedon about a Wonder Woman project?

Yeah, that happened. How did that go? Was that a real thing? Did it feel like a real thing at the time? It felt like a real thing, but, and I have no idea. You'd have to ask Joss, but I think my impression coming away from it was I had no desire and he could tell. Were you trying to fake it?

where you did you or not even you were kind of I was too young to be that polite why were you not into it just in the idea of playing Wonder Woman wasn't at that point didn't make sense it didn't appeal and I there was nothing about the meeting that like jazzed me or made me think like oh I got to do this I just I didn't nothing clicked and nothing felt good and I think that I at that time and still I think to this day I am way too authentic for my own good right I mean it's not good it's it's I if it's If I am not impressed, you'll know, and maybe you shouldn't know sometimes. And I think there was maybe even a little bit of, like, a fence taken.

Right, like, you should be excited. Yeah, exactly. Shouldn't you be excited? And you're like, I'm good? I'm not really. Yeah. You know, and I was okay with that. I was okay with Burning Bridges.

I was okay with not having everyone in Hollywood just, you know, want to work with me and think everything, you know, I was okay. I was like, I'm good. I'm doing lost. I'm great. Um, yeah, and then there were a couple other, like, I don't know if I, it's weird talking about stuff that has come your way that you've passed up on, because then, I don't know, like, does it put the person who offered you in a weird position or make it sound? I don't know. It just sounds braggy. It's fine. Own it. We said own it. Remember, own your worth, Evangeline.

Um, okay, well, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this. I guess it doesn't matter. What are the consequences? When we were working on real steel, Hugh Jackman was like, hey, um, So the X-Men guys are like asking me if I would approach you because they know that you won't talk to anybody and won't do anything and you're not reading scripts and no one can reach you. So they knew I was working with you and just were interested to know if it would ever interest you to maybe do an X-Men thing. And I was like, no, no, it doesn't interest me. I'm not interested. Playing hard to get. It's working.

And then, well, then I felt like, I was like, this feels like, I feel like such a dick because I'm talking to an X-Men. Right, the X-Men. The X, like, he's, and I'm telling him now that it doesn't appeal. Like, what? I felt so rude. I don't see it. I don't know what you get out of it. Yeah.

Why would you do that? What were you thinking? You know, I mean, come on. It's a weird, it's a, yeah. It's a weird thing. But look, you got to just stay true to yourself. That's exactly it. Yeah.

I just always had to do what felt right for me. Well, and also, you don't want to be in, it's like, walked into five movies with a character and a franchise you're not passionate about. Totally. What's going to happen? And honestly, I was. into superhero movies. And that's the main reason why in both of these instances, I just kind of felt like, I don't know what I get out of this. Because I don't like watching those movies. They

don't appeal to me. And I often was very critical of them. Like, I was known to mock them and treat them as like lower forms of entertainment until Marvel came around. And when they approached, I had the same reaction. You know, I'm, I'm equal. I'm fair in my negativity. In my disdain for superhero movies. I was like, no, not interested. No, thank you to my manager, not to them. You know, just talking to him about it. And he was like, have you seen any Marvel movies? And I was like, no, of course not.

Why would I watch that? And he's like, you should see them. And what I did, I was like, oh, they're doing something very different and very cool. So then when you get the role of hope and then Edgar leaves the project, you're like, oh, see, I told you guys. What are we doing here? Why? You convinced me to do this. Oh, yes.

I was ready to walk. I was like, oh, this big corporate giants. bullying the creatives, forget it, creatives band together, I'm going. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't keen on that. And I was really excited to work with Edgar. And I thought Edgar and Paul would have been just such a great dynamic duo. And Edgar had a very different vision for hope than we ended up ultimately, you know, going with. He had a really like sort of dark, like mole, what's that called, double, double, double agent type thing.

And he wanted to do it in classic Edgar style, which was like wigs and, you know, different looks. And I was like, this is going to be really fun. So yeah, I did have that moment of like, see, this is why you say no to the big franchises. Well, then luckily they get someone like Peyton, who is, again, kind of that Sean Levy school, just like smart and nice and cool. Yes. And inventive. Was it, what reassured you when he came on board? Was it the next iteration of the script? Was it a conversation with him? It was the next iteration of the script. For me, everything lives and breathed with the writing and the script. which is hard in a Marvel film because it's changing the whole way through. But if what is happening in the story is ultimately being serviced by whatever decision is being made, I think that Edgar Wright's Ant Man would have been phenomenal and I would have killed to be a part of it. But if Marvel have a vision for their MCU and it has to fit into the MCU, there's that whole thing of like how do you do that, how do you manage that, And how do you keep everything sort of monochromatic in a way while still having variation?

And they're good at that. I think they're good at having an overarching feeling so that you know you're in the same universe. You understand the concept while also having each franchise have its own personality. So, you know, I think I was convinced, you know, by the end, I was like, okay, I get it. I see what you're doing. So you make the first two Ant Man and the Wasp films. And I think maybe after that, is that one, the end game moment happens, right? Yeah.

Which I've heard you talk about and make sense to me. It's like you kind of walk into that scene, those scenes, kind of like, where am I? What movie am I in? Because that's, totally. So when you saw that movie, were you like, oh, that's the movie I was in? Like, did you even have any sense of it? I had no sense of it. And I saw that movie.

And I was like, oh, that's the scene I was in, let alone the movie I was in. Because I had no idea what the scene was. And I was like, and you can really tell. I have no idea what I'm doing or where I am. It was so like, I feel like I just stood out like a sore thumb in the knot. not being seamless with the rest of the cast in the moment with the other women, like even like the swaggering moment. I feel like you guys all make sense together as that team.

I loved that moment. And shooting that moment, there was such a camaraderie in and amongst ourselves. I did feel really at home in that moment. Actually, that moment felt really good and really fun. It was more the coming out of the portal. Was it a portal?

It was a portal. I didn't even know what I came out of. I was so lost. And I come out and I look around and I was like, yeah, that's how I felt. Like, where am I? What's going on? What is this movie? Were they just like catching you on a hidden camera being like, okay, come out of her trailer, we'll get her? She'll be confused. Just make sure she's in costume. So we mentioned that great moment with all these amazing female cast members that had such great intentions. And then a lot

of people interpreted as kind of a pandering moment. And did that bum you out when it was kind of like, it felt like that's clearly not what you were trying to do. And if anything, it was trying to be the opposite of that? I think that it can happen in service of like the big picture. I think that there is really good intentions a lot of the time, well, all the time. I think there's really good intentions with the decisions that are being made for, you know, representation. But there's like a formula for these stories and it's really hard to break the formula.

So I think in creating the film, it can fall prey to these moments. losing some of their meaning and becoming a little bit superficial. Right. And I think what would help is the more and more we have space and room for that to be justified, like for these women to come together in organic ways and have any kind of relationship or any kind of engagement, like for me, one of the most heroic feminist moments in Marvel film was that moment when I'm going to, you know, this is, we're testing my my Marvel knowledge.

There's no portal involved. There was a ditch. There's a ditch involved. And it was Black Widow. And it was, I think she was, oh, I think it was Scarlet Witch was being really, like, she was at her last legs. She was fighting in the battle. I think it was either Endgame or the one right before that, which was Infinity War.

And, um, thank you. Thank you. Actually, if you could give me the cheat sheet now so I can study. And, and she's about. be killed. And the bad guy says something about like, oh, your friends aren't here to like defend you, like you're alone. And then I think Black Widow steps up and is like, but she's not alone. And in that moment in the theater, I literally leapt out of my seat and screamed at the top of my life. I was like, yeah. And I had this fierce moment of that feeling of knowing what

it feels like to be a woman at the hands of powerful men and feeling very alone and unrepresented and like undefended. And then it was like in that moment Scarlett was there at my back in all of those moments of my life being like, fuck you. I was like, tell him, Scarlett. You tell them. I was so into it. It really, that one, that one hit for me. Yeah. That one felt really powerful. For most of us learning a second language in high school or college was not exactly a high point in our academic careers. I know it wasn't for me. I tried Italian, I tried French, and none of it stuck. But now, thanks to Babel, the language learning app that sold more than 10 million subscriptions, there's an addictively fun and easy way to learn a new language. Whether you'll be traveling

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Right now, when you purchase a three-month Babel subscription, you'll get an additional three months for free, guys. That's six months for the price of three. Just go to babel.com and use promo code h-S-C. That's B-A-B-B-E-L-L-com, code H-S. see let's talk a little quantum mania this is a banana's movie i mean that is a high compliment is it's a big crazy world that we're introduced to um and yet it's still this great family at its core and it's an emotional story and then you throw in jonathan majors who's just like oh my god the greatest new actor on the scene fantastic um when you read this

script like what does the script read like does it read like I don't know like can you make heads or tails of it given like all the descriptions and the bizarre do you know it's strange is the script reads much more straightforward than the film itself when I saw the film I was like this is like this is bananas it's kooky and zany and all over the place and like wow what it's going doesn't feel like that way the script felt very clean and very clear and very like straightforward and I was like ooh I can follow this not all more are easy to follow there. Like you said, there's so much action and there's mythology and there's so many things going on. So yeah, the script was not like that. But it's not because they've changed

it a lot from the script. It's just something happens in the translation on screen. Well, you're also probably, I mean, you can almost like skip the descriptive stuff and just go straight to the dialogue, which tells the story. Right. And there's like probably these giant chunks of like description of these crazy banana worlds. Which I'm going to admit, I totally skip. Yeah. Why do you need to know that? Like all the time. You guys do your thing. I'll do my thing. Exactly. Okay, so talk to me about We talked about Michelle Pfeiffer Last time I saw you for MN and the Wasp

Part of one of the reasons I love this film Is there so much Michelle in this She's so good She's always so good And she's just so good to look at And I hate to say that That's so degrading, but it's true She's so beautiful

She's a model, she's a model And she's so good in it And I felt the same I was so happy to see it Do you feel like Because I remember when I spoke to you For the last film There was almost still like an intimidating

factor a little bit of like, yes, I can talk to her, but like they're still like putting her on a pedestal a little bit. Has that diminished a little bit or is it still? It has. Like in a healthy, like in a good way, not in a way that in any way she is less cool or less incredible to me, but just in the way that we got really close on this film and we were really supportive of one another. We spent a lot of time collaborating on the relationship between Janet and Hope and talking to the writers about what we wanted to see for it. And, you know, these are really difficult films to make and so she became a real comfort and a real ally and there was like not so much of mother-daughter thing but of genuine friendship that developed amazing so talk to me a little bit about

the ambition right now for this character um because look we've seen the wasp in relation to scott and the family like is could you imagine playing hope without them like like who is janet or whose hope, rather, without the family around her? Does that intrigue you? Totally intrigues me. So this thing has happened online where a fan asked a question at a press conference about whether or not there would be a standalone wasp film coming. And I was like, I'm all for it, Kevin, what do you think?

Because he was sitting right behind me. And now all of a sudden, there's headlines all over the news like, Evangeline Lilly calling for a standalone wasp movie. And I'm like, hang on. I was a fan that was calling for it. I just said I'd be gay. I don't want to... Exactly.

Come on. But that's the kind of thing that does make that intriguing to me is just because there's never enough space in a Marvel movie to explore the character in the ways that I would want to. I mean, I'm a person who didn't like superhero movies for this very reason.

Like, I like character-driven pieces. I like the squid and the whale. You know? So I want more of that. And, you know, that's never going to happen and the fans would not be happy if it did. If I made a Marvel movie, it would be the lowest grossing Marvel film of all time.

but I I do see it as an opportunity to have that time to get a little bit more into who is hope outside of you know being like a trainer for Scott or being a support for Scott or being you know a daughter like who is she just who is hope yeah for I'm most curious about this like with like the stuff coming down the pike like Kang dynasty and secret wars like how does it work do they check in with you occasionally and be like here's what's coming like Hell no. No, you don't, it's literally like, here's, here's one we need you. It's like, yeah, it's like, I'll get a call from my lawyer being like, hey, guess what?

Good news. They want to make another Ant Man of the Wasp movie. Are you available on these dates? You know, and that's it. And it won't be like, just so you know you're launching phase five and launching the dynasty of Kang. No, just there's another movie. Would you like to do it here at the dates?

So, okay, if we were off camera right now, just having a drink, being casual, could you even tell me what happens like in Kang Dynasty? Do you know anything? Zero, nothing. not even an inkling. I know as much as anyone who watched Quantum Mania already knows. That's as much as I know. And I'm not saying that so that I don't spoil it.

I genuinely don't know. And is that a frustration at this point or is that just part of the deal? Oh, no, I don't mind. I don't mind at all. I don't have the time. I'm a working mom. Like, I don't have the time to keep up with the whole thing. It's huge.

It's too much. No, I relate. Look, I love the stuff. And I'm like, it's like a full-time job for me to like keep up with God bless Marvel, but all the content, it's like, slow down, guys, I need a second. Yeah, yeah, I think I kept up with half of phase four, which I think was pretty good for me. I did pretty well. I saw probably about half of them, but it was way too much for me to see them all.

My son, my 11-year-old son, on the other hand, has seen everything at least once. Yes, yes, yes, he picked out an Easter egg in this film that I didn't even know existed. he was like, oh, and he like saw this thing and he connected it to another one of the Marvel films and I'm being very cryptic right now just in case he's right because I think he is right because he really knows Marvel.

So, okay, so we've been talking mostly about the acting and a little bit on the other creative pursuits like squicker walkers and writing and all of that. Look, I mean, I follow you on social media and I know you a bit over the years and I know like, I don't know if it comes from childhood or what, but you're also very like socially and politically engaged and that's something that clearly is like,

passionate part of your life, does it feel like, because it's not necessarily what a big conglomerate is looking for in an actor, right? No. Is someone to be like, hey, here's what I think. Yeah, exactly. Do you ever get the call from like, Faggy being like, I love you, but can. No. No, that's good. They're very respectful. In fact, I've had direct conversations with them that I have instigated. And, you know, they've always said, like, that's not our business. That's not for us to tell you how to live your life or what opinions to have. And, you know, I actually even got a really supportive phone call from Peyton Reed at one point.

And, you know, just saying, like, just so you know, there's some rumors spreading about, like, you know, Marvel ditching you or canceling you. And that didn't come from Marvel and that didn't come from us. So just ignore that. Well, that's huge. Yeah. To know that they've got your back. It's really nice.

And I think it's really healthy. I think there needs to be a divide between your professional life and your personal life. Right. What is, okay, so besides being a mom and doing this Marvel business, what is occupied, when you have some time, creative time, what is occupying the time right now? Are you writing another project? Are you trying to get to move off the ground? I am. So there's, I've got a couple of things going. One is this film called Legend of Destruction, which we just announced in deadline a couple days ago. We're looking for distribution in the U.S. It's an animated feature that is like none ever made before. It's 1,500 still life oil paintings that don't move, but the camera moves through the paintings. And so it's almost like reading a book that just comes to life in your mind. And for about the first five minutes, I think there's a bit of squirming in your seat, like, but it's not moving.

I don't understand. And then all of a sudden something happens and you just switch over. And the film comes to life in your mind through what's happening on screen, but it's actually not in motion. And it's about the destruction of the Second Temple of Jerusalem. And Oscar Isaac is the lead voice, and Elliot Gould and Billy Zainer in it with me, and I play Queen Bernice, and I'm just so excited about it, and I really hope we get U.S. distribution. Because it's a cautionary tale about a society divided amongst themselves, which I think is really prevalent in America right now. And then, oh, go ahead.

No, I could go on forever. I've got so many projects on the back burner. Give me one more. Is it Squicker Wonkers? Is it the TV show? No, it's actually, I've written a feature. and I have a very exciting producing partner who I'm like I won't tell you who but there's this hot young new like exciting producer or director kid who wants to make it with me and

I'm very excited do we need to manifest at this point another franchise or are you good like because you oh my god like are you yes we do you're a queen already no we do greedy now you want more the next franchise is got to be of my creation there you go that's the next that's clearly the next step I'm done playing with other people's sandboxes. That's right. That's right. I'm done being someone else's puppet. Let's bring my puppets to life on the big screen.

And there's going to be 20 series or 20 books, so we could do that. I love it. It's always great catching up with you. Congratulations. Not that folks need me to endorse it, but Ant Man and the Wasp Quantum Mania. It's another big fun swing from Marvel. It's a wild ride. You're excellent in it as always.

And it sounds like we'll be talking more about all these thousands of other projects. I hope so. And this was so neat. It was very different for us. we're just being idiots together and laughing her asses off. We'll compensate next time. No, this was nice. We'll go really stupid next time. It was really good. We contain multitudes of Angeline.

Yes. We can be serious. We can have variants. Right? She's on brand. Look at that. Thanks for the time as always. Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever

you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Thank you, Josh. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast,

and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Mari Supreme, Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bugonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel Day Lewis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar Wright's The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.