Happy Sad Confused - Felicity Jones

Episode Date: January 1, 2019

We're ringing in a new year of "Happy Sad Confused" with a brilliant portrayal of a living icon. Felicity Jones joins Josh to talk about playing Ruth Bader Ginsburg in the new film, "On the Basis of Sex", her anxiety before "Rogue One" hit it big with audiences and critics, and why she's never going up in a hot air balloon again. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. on today's edition of happy, said, confused, Felicity Jones, from Star Wars to a Supreme Court Justice in her new film on the basis of sex. Hey guys, I'm Josh Harrow. It's welcome to another edition of Happy, Say, Confused. As I said, today's guest, the fantastically talented Felicity Jones. You know her, of course, from her Oscar-nominated role in the theory of everything. and her leading role in Star Wars Rogue One. I guess it was Rogue One a Star Wars story, if I'm getting the official title down. Whatever it was called, it was an amazing movie.

She was fantastic in it. She's always just a stellar performer, and she once again acquits herself very well playing none other than The Notorious RBG, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and her new film on the basis of sex. A very entertaining film from director Mimi Leader, that is, you know, it's a biopic of sorts. It's not Ruth Bader Ginsburg's entire life. It's more about her

early days, going to law school, coming into her own, and a very key court case that she was involved with alongside her husband, played by another happy, say I confused veteran, Mr. Army Hammer. They're both fantastic in the film. Recommend this one. It is

out in theaters. And it's a special project because you know, we're living in crazy times and to celebrate the likes of Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg is a worthy thing to do. I had a chance to talk to Felicity the day after her New York premiere of On the Basis of Sex. And I have to say it was one of the more special premieres I've been to in the audience was Gloria Steinem, Hillary Clinton, and Justice Ginsburg herself, who stayed for a Q&A after. the film made for a very heightened kind of atmosphere for that premiere. But I'm glad I was there. I saw the movie period, but I'm glad I was there that particular night. I just want to

give you some context because we do mention her mixing it up with the likes of those luminaries the night before. Felicity is just fantastic. She's, you know, always very open and sweet and and thoughtful and funny and all the good things. And I'm always happy to see her. And we've never had this kind of a long-form conversation. So a real thrill to have her on the podcast. This is, of course, our first happy second fuse of 2019. I hope you guys had a great New Year celebration.

I'm actually taping this right before the new year. So I'm hoping I had a good New Year celebration too. We can only hope for the best. But I want to take this opportunity to look back a little bit at 2018. in film. Shockingly, I still haven't finalized my top 10 list. I'm so damn behind on this, guys. It always, it always stresses me out. I had to vote in, like, one organization I'm a part of, so I kind of gave my, I think, top five I had to give then. But it's changing every day, and I'm still catching up on films in particular. I have not seen nearly enough of the great foreign films that were

released in 2018. So this list is going to change. But if you're looking for a Josh Harowitz, top ten-ish kind of list. I'm going to recite for you. I think these are actually 14 movies. This is my top 14, 14 movies that I really loved in 2018. I'm just going to give it to you an alphabetical order with as little commentary as possible. But if you share my taste, if you feel like you vibe with what I like, here are the movies that I loved in 2018. We're going to begin with everyone's favorite. A Star is Born. Beautiful Love Story. Very effective. Bradley Cooper kills it in front of and behind the camera. Behind the camera. Black Klan. One of Spike Lee's best films period, certainly one of his best in many years.

I've seen it a couple times. Fantastic. Can you ever forgive me? I've talked about this movie a bunch on the podcast. We had Richard E. Grant on. I absolutely adore this movie set in 90s, New York, directed by Mariel Heller. Wilson McCarthy gives a performance like she's never given before. Just a great slice of life about New York characters that I adored.

The favorite, Jorgos Lantamos's latest. Really dark comedy, fantastic performances. Olivia Coleman, Rachel Weiss is so good in this. Emma Stone. Nicholas Holt, our old buddy, fantastic in it, loved it. First Man, great filmmaking, great craft. Damien Chazelle knocks it out of the park again. First Reformed, a haunting, intense film featuring a stellar performance from Ethan Hawke,

directed by the one and only Paul Schrader. Game Night, not enough people who have given. Give in love to Game Night, maybe my favorite, like, out-and-out comedy of the year. Really great filmmaking, too. Usually in comedies you don't see, like, you know, they kind of, like, I feel like go the lazy route in comedies in terms of, from a filmmaking standpoint. Game Night is great. Jesse Plymonds for the win for his supporting performance.

Green Book. Loved Green Book, the leading performances from Vigo Mortensen, Mahershal Ali, fantastic. Just a real heartwarming story. leaves the theater feeling great, and it's, I really enjoyed it. On the other side of the spectrum is hereditary, probably the most disturbing film of the year. A great horror film from a young filmmaker featuring an amazing performance from Tony Colette. Mission Impossible Fallout. Maybe the best franchise going nowadays is what Chris McClary and Tom Cruise is doing with the Mission Impossible series. They raise the bar yet again in this one, just pure.

great popcorn entertainment. Roma from Alfonso Quaron, impeccable filmmaking, emotional. It will hit you in the heart by the end of this film. It is sublime. I highly recommend it. And it's on Netflix. If you can't get out to a theater, just check it out in the comfort of your own home. Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse. What thrilling animation, what a new take on the Spider-Man story. that we haven't seen before, a true comic book lover's dream. Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse is fantastic. Weiss. I was just talking on the last podcast to Adam McKay. I adore Vice. It is very funny, disturbing,

and says a lot about the times that we're living in. And finally, you were never really here, a film that you may not have heard of. It got a little attention earlier in the year. It should have gotten more from Lynn Ramsey, starring Joaquin Phoenix, kind of a taxi driver for our times, one of the best of 2018 without a doubt. So another hell of a year in the books, 2018 in movies, according to Josh Horowitz. If you guys are interested in checking out my picks, let me know what you think.

Hit me up on Twitter, Joshua Horowitz, and tell me if you agree or disagree. In the meantime, remember, review, rate and subscribe to Happy Say I Confuse, spread the good word, and enjoy this conversation with the star of On the Bases of Sex. Remember to check it out in theaters now, Miss Felicity Jones. It's so nice to be here. It's good to see you, Felicity. I just can't tell you how nice it is to be in your office. We try to create, by we, I mean, me and my, as you can see, I have so many staff members here.

I know. Me, my multiple personalities. Huge team. Yeah, it's just a check. You know, it's something that's a lost art, I feel like, in the publicity game. It does, yeah, just kind of get back to basics. Back to basics. And it's nice being in such a, such a magical space.

Magical window with space. Yeah, it's actually lovely to be surrounded by movie posters, because that's what. It does get rather abstract when, obviously, you're talking about a film a lot. You have to remind yourself how much you do love films. And you don't just talk about them about one film, your own film. Your own film. You enjoy lots of films. And does the person talking to me,

do you really like movies? Or do you like just holding a microphone? What's the truth here? The passion of the movies is the thing that brings me here today. Okay, good. We're on the same page. Without a doubt. Yeah, I actually, it's one of my favorite things to do on a press tour

is to as much as possible if I have downtime, I just put on a movie, even if I only watch 15 minutes, just to engage with another narrative and it's the ultimate relaxing thing to do and it takes your mind off your own dreadful solipsism and self-hatred, which is why I've always loved cinema. What have you been watching lately? Have you caught up? Are you in the screener season?

Yeah, yeah, I'm in the midst of it. I am, I'm in the favor. It's just fantastic. Oh, yeah, beautiful. So he's just got such a fabulous taste and everything and I just I absolutely loved it loved it

so we saw each other very briefly at your soire last night congratulations on the movie on the basis of sex is of course the new one I feel like you had you know

if I wasn't going to come away loving your movie last night then something was wrong because I was sitting like three rows behind Hillary Clinton three rows ahead of Gloria Steinem RBG was to my right it was like you guys stack the deck

I get it it was a power women room that's for sure it's amazing um did you get to spend some quality time with with miss clinton i did i did um we all met each other um before we went into the screening and there was a really awesome moment where i was in a i was in a huddle i was in a group huddle with um justice ginsberg hillary clinton and gloria steinem and uh if there's one thing that i will take away from making this film it is that moment that will be indelibly but onto my heart and my retinas.

That's pretty special. Yeah, that doesn't go with every film. I mean, you've had a few of these now. I mean, you could probably count theory of everything of one of those kind of like special things where it's telling a very important, unique story. This one, I mean, RVG, Justice Ginsburg, whatever we call her, the icon that is,

it does, you know, it's the cliche. It feels like it's the right time for the story, but it really does feel like, you know, that room, and I feel like any room that's going to see this film that's like ready to celebrate what she's contributed. Absolutely.

I mean, did you come away, you must have come away with even a greater appreciation of her going through this experience. Yeah, without a doubt, without a doubt. I mean, it was definitely nerve-wracking initially playing such an icon and someone who is so deeply loved

and deeply respected and rightly so, even when I, you know, was with her last night and we had dinner together, I just, I can't help but be overwhelmed and moved by who she is and how she's managed to navigate her way to a position of power with absolute integrity

keeping her soul and herself intact and she's continually being in positions of injustice and she was in a world where no one really wanted her to be there they kept looking around being like what are you still doing here you know this isn't for you you should be in the kitchen go away and she she remained and stayed and fought

and managed to very carefully and in a very sophisticated way that kept a sense of unity and kept everyone on side she managed to change the system and there's not many people who've been able to do that in our history so yeah so looking at her last night

I just thought how we're so lucky to have someone like you in power with principles fully intact looking at the film and I'm sure looking at the script I mean, were you, some things must still resonate in terms of these kind of like microaggression kind of small things that still exist to this day. I mean, I feel like if any woman I talked to probably has been told to smile a little bit more. Yeah, I think.

Resonate with you with anybody. I think that's it. I think, yeah, you're tapping into it. It's that, because I've been thinking about this. And I think what it is is just that slight pressure to be pleasing. I think that's something that we're still, we're still wrestling with a little bit. it. But actually, do you know, more than ever, I feel like it is, it is our time to shine, you know, with the forces of history and where they are, it is, we're in a time now where we can

have a total equality where we can all rise together. And that's ultimately what the film is about. It is that one doesn't have to rise to the detriment of another. When we work together, as Marty and Ruth did, look what we can do and look what change we can affect and I now feel we're in this place where the world has changed and we are equals and that has to be embraced on every level

but it has been interesting screening the film and seeing it in the world and some people I think do find it difficult when they see the film and they sort of they find something a little bit almost they don't know how to take it that the story ends with a woman triumphing alongside her husband with their relationship fully intact and she lives at the end I can't process this this isn't how it's

supposed to go down exactly we haven't seen this in film history it's it is novel um so that has been absolutely fascinating but but that that is the that's why we're also passionate about this film of putting that story into the world well it's it's a heartening film I think it's going to, in a weird way, like, the same way people would be like, the world needs Mary Poppins right now. The world also needs a true story like this, a true hero like this, where, like, I think it was Justice Ginsburg said in the Q&A last night. She was quitting her late husband saying, I think, that like, history is like a pendulum, right?

The scales. The scales. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, as we all know, like, these have been pretty rough times the last couple of years. And if there is a silver lining, it is. Um, you know, I've talked about this on the podcast before, like the day after the election, like, I was always, you know, like kind of a liberal and politically active, but like I felt myself kind of like feeling like I had to raise my voice and I feel like many people are feeling that way. Um, and if there is some good to come of these really scary times, it's that, um, necessary action is taking place. Absolutely. That if you raise your voice, you can be heard. And change can happen. And that's what, uh, that's what, uh, that's what, uh, that's what Justice Ginsburg has, without a doubt, shown us. Absolutely. I think the film gives people such great hope that you, the status quo can be shifted.

Right. And you can fight against that and how important it is. Well, there are many speeches that are talks in the film about, like, well, it's been like this for forever. It's been like this for hundreds of years. Why even talk about it? Well, it doesn't change unless we talk about it. Exactly. And then when we change the law.

I mean, it's like it's only, it only happens if we address it. Exactly. The conversation. You need the conversation to start and then you shift things without, yeah, without a doubt. So what was, what was the first time, were you in the audience the first time that she was there that she saw the film? I saw it. The first time I saw it with Justice Ginsburg, it was. It's even interesting saying Justice Ginsburg, I know her so well as Ruth.

So I often move between the two. Fair enough. But we all watched it in Washington together, which was, it was just been a fascinating experience. And it was a very, very emotional experience for Mimi and I were in tears. Yeah, Mimi Leader, the director of course. Yeah, Mimi Leader, who has done a phenomenal job of making this story completely human and completely accessible. And understanding who Justice Ginsburg is as a human being. know, all the trials and tribulations and all the knockbacks that everyone has,

and to know that she's had those two is really helpful when you look at her now and see the position that she's got to. But it was just, yeah, it was very special to see the joy on her face and the love that she has for the film, because if there's one person that you care about liking it, it's her, you know, all the other reviews you're kind of less bothered about than her stamp of approval. And I can't. I mean, you touched on a little bit, but the relationship between her and Marty, her husband, her late husband, is so sweet. And he was clearly just the true partner in every conceivable way to her. And that must have been emotional for her to see that captured as you and Army did. Definitely. Well, the first time they screened the film, Daniel Sieperman, her nephew, who wrote the screenplay, he tells the story that Justice Ginsburg burst out of the room the film had finished.

she walked out of the screening room and everyone was sort of nervously waiting and then and then Daniel sort of turned to his his mother who's her sister and I said where has she gone and she said she's gone to the bathroom but it was and then she came back and she said you know how much she'd she'd love the film but what was interesting is is perhaps how moved she'd been to see the film and be reminded obviously of her husband her late husband and that it was interesting when I went to her apartment and we had we had coffee together and she was showing me various things um marty's pots and pans that's still in the kitchen they don't get used so much now because justice ginsberg is a terrible cook as she says herself but um and she showed me yeah pictures of of her and marty and just in

everyone the love and the respect and the and they're just being on the same team and and how you know how we just don't get to see that yeah yeah yeah we do get many examples of that. A bit of a different vibe, I'm sure, than the Rogue One press tour, I would imagine. I mean, you've got, you don't have a wookie with you, but you have six foot nine

Army Hammer, who's basically a walking talking wookie. Exactly. And Justice Ginsburg, I would say has the force in her. If there's one person you can think of and you'd say who has the force, it would be her, wouldn't it? Very true. Very true. But it's funny. Yeah, I had

I had Diego in recently. Is that something that has changed your perspective on sort of the way... I mean, clearly, look, your career was going amazingly well. A theory of everything had happened and I'd kicked it up to another notch and you were getting great opportunities. But in the year plus,

I don't even know how many years it's been now, but since Rogue One, do you feel like... Has it changed more of your professional life or personal life of just being, like, recognized by kids now? I think definitely professional life. I mean, the personal life is, I mean, that's almost without sounding too cheesy. But when you do have young, you know, boys and girls coming up to you, that is something very special in that because you go, you are the future.

Yes. You know, you are the hope. If you care about these films, you know, that do have, you know, strong role models in them, then the world hopefully will continue to, hopefully be a be a bit of a better place right um but i i think yeah professionally um definitely it you know having been in a film that has that that wider reach and and that affection for it um globally it definitely gives you more more say in the stories that you're telling and and ultimately that's what i was so passionate about i mean as you are obviously in journalism that's so much of why we do what we do it's the stories that we put out into the world

that we care about. So being able to have more control in that is, yeah, it's an absolute blessing. Now, did you, okay, I spoke to you guys a lot during that press tour, and you're a fabulous actor, so I don't know how much you were able to mask it at the time. Like, did you have anxiety before the film came out? Because, as you know, the, okay, first, put this out there. The movie's amazing.

It turned out amazing. It also felt like kind of a miracle that it did, given, like, all the buzz around it at the time. It was like, oh, here we go. This is going to be the one that ruins the track record. Was that affecting you? Were you like, I'm going to be the face of the Star Wars film that fails? Well, you just never know.

That's what is fascinating. I mean, that's what I think keeps us all in the game. You don't know how something's going to turn out. You don't know, even, you know, you have the most wow respected director and these people, and it can still be a pile of poo, you know. You never, ever know, until it hits the screens and do the, ultimately, do the audience want to see this film?

do they care about this narrative? So, I mean, obviously, when it does click, it is pretty fantastic. Yeah. What are you, you excited for your buddy, Diego, to get to play in that sandbox again? Yeah, definitely, definitely. And we had a really, really special time on that film. You know, it's on a scale like no other. When you walk on to set and there's about 300 people, it is pretty tremendous.

So, yeah, it's fantastic to keep celebrating it. And there's such special stories. And I'm, you know, Kathy Kennedy has really pushed women in the, in the sci-fi universe. You know, obviously there is a, there is a legacy. I mean, coming from films like Alien, and to be able to continue, that was pretty awesome. Yeah. So let's go back for a little bit since we were, you know, in my little movie mecca and we're just geeking out here a little bit. Okay, so growing up, um,

What were you into? What was, what were on your walls? What was your passion? Well, it was definitely the pinnacle of the 90s blockbuster, which we are very similar ages. So we probably had similar cultural currency. So we would go out, my mom would drive us in her tiny, tiny car. My brother and I would be like squashed in the back and we'd drive to her favorite cinema, which was about an hour away from where we lived because she liked this particular cinema. because of the quality of the sound. Nice.

So, you know, yeah, that's the kind of detail that I am used to. There's not Dolby's surround here. It's going to be another half hour, but we're going to make the trip. Okay, Felicity, all right, Mom. That's growing up with a total cinephile. Yeah, it sets the bar high. And was she exposing you to every kind of a movie? Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I mean, we would, at this particular multiplex, you know, we were seeing, I mean, Adam's family was a particular favorite. By the way, Adam's family values, underrated sequel. Yes, exactly. So good. I admire that commitment. I admire.

And then obviously all the world that sprung of it and the M.C. Hammer track that then my brother and I would imitate the dancing to really badly. You know, the chicken dance. Yes. For those that wonder, I just saw Felicity do the chicken dance. Yes. Sitting down. Yes.

I read something, some random thing. You made a reference, not in the film world. We'll go back to films at a second. You mentioned something that I've not thought of for about 25, 30 years, Sylvainian families. Oh, my goodness. I only remember the commercials. Do you remember the commercials for some of that?

Yeah. It's funny how you block out so much of your childhood. I'm going to pull it up while we talk. Because it really was like, it was a moment when you mentioned in another interview. I was like, why do I know what that is? Oh my God, I know that jingle. I know that jingle. But you actually played with the toys.

I never did. Yeah. Were you into the, into that? Do you remember the, there was a school? No, is this associated with Sylvania? Yeah, so they had, there was a, yeah. So there was, um, there was the Sylvainian school. Is this the Sylvania Cinematic Universe? Yeah.

Oh my goodness. This is the future. Bring back the Sylvainians. Wait, here, here's the commercial. I'm looking for the next project. This could be it. That was it. Oh, the little outfits.

It's very creepy looking at this, to be honest. There you are, basically. You're the young lady playing. Yeah, that shot of her picking up the doll was particularly scary. Yeah, they're little mice, aren't they? Oh, that was it, the tiny crib. You'd put them in the tiny crib. To collect and live.

Hours are fun. Amazing. So you would play with your little Syvadian family and create your own little narratives. Yes, little scenarios. In the Slovenian windmill as well. That was a huge part of it. And I think there was a, was there a Sylvania car?

That might have been something else. I can't remember. I was more to like, Treadsformers and Go-Bots. Yeah, exactly. So, okay, so when did you start to get semi-serious about the acting? Because you've been acting basically your entire life, it seems. Yeah, I started when I was about 10 years old.

But it came very much from a hobby. My parents actually, they were worried that I was very shy and I was very sort of reserved. And they thought, how can we bring her out of herself? So they looked at various sort of drama clubs and things like that. And then I, you know, I sort of was like, I'm not sure about this. And I went to a great drama group called the Central Junior Television Workshop. And I had an audition for that.

And then the moment I actually got into the room, you know, I'd been a little bit hesitant at first. I just felt, oh, I felt like I'd come home. It was a really odd feeling at such a young age. kind of 10 years old, I thought, these are my people. You weirdos are all like me. That's what we're all trying to find, whatever it is. Yeah, I think I'm partly probably being a bit, in some ways, a bit of an outsider at school and not kind of finding your beat or your track

and feeling a little at odds. And then suddenly I came to this drama club. And, you know, we're all just such goofs, just goofing around. And I just loved it. So, like, how well were you doing as like a young, as like a teenage 12 year old to, 14 year old like in the acting game like were you like providing for the family like were you like i don't i have no sense of like well i see i see the early like credits and i'm like with all due respect it didn't enter my world but maybe if i was growing up in britain maybe i would have

yeah no it wasn't um it kind of it wasn't sort of that formalized for me it was very much just something that i did in my school holidays and and i always i always wanted a bit of a balance between it. I did a TV series, The Worst Witch, when I was about 12 or 13, and then I was going to go on to do the second series, and I remember, but I was desperate to go on our family holiday. You know, we all used to go away with all my cousins and my aunt and uncles, and I was so sad at the thought of missing the family holiday that I decided that I didn't want to go back and do a second season. I know. Sacrifice. I know. Sacrifice family, everything, your sanity for a third season of a TV show,

no one will ever remember. Yeah, exactly. So I thought, instead I'm going to go on the holiday and I'm not going to go back. And I was just thinking about that the other day and I was thinking, I wonder what that was about. And I think it was ultimately about, which doesn't sound very sort of jazzy and cool,

but it's about balance. You know, we come back to the scales. The scales that Justice Ginsburg talks about is that maybe a healthy, happy way is the equilibrium. Do you have that sense to this day where you're like, I've been working too much, like, and I need to, like, kind of, like, preserve that other life that I've been denying? Or do you feel like now you kind of have the natural rhythms and you know how to protect yourself

and protect your sanity? I think so. I mean, I think everyone, we all have that battle, don't we? It's like keeping, ideally you want, you want them to be in harmony. I mean, you kind of want them to feed into each other and harness one another, I think, ultimately. So, okay, so going back to the timeline, what's the first? For, like, do you remember the first time that you were working with, like, actors that you truly revere, like, another generation of actor that felt like this is like, I'm surrounded by, by important folks? Yeah, yeah, and having, and having that sense of it.

I think, I think initially, the first person that I was really taken with was actually, I did a thing called The Treasure Seekers, and the director, it was a female director called Juliet May. And I think that's the first time I sort of was going, oh, wow, this is really special because it was the first time I saw a woman in that position, which I, you know, hadn't come across before. So I feel that was definitely my kind of first, like, oh, goodness, this is interesting, a moment. And then obviously along the way, you can't help, you do become, you absorb so much, I think, from the people that you work with, particularly, and continue to do so, actually. And definitely working with Helen Mirren

was a moment of seeing someone who's just cool. That was on the Tempest, the J-Taymore production. And she was just cool on set. And she didn't demand lots of attention. And she was meticulous in front of their camera. And that she said a bit of a gold standard for me from then. Not that I was like going around being, you know.

Right, everybody knows the early days of Felicity when she was going around. Exactly. Go away, you know, none of that. Did you have a peer group of actors that you kind of feel like you kind of came of age with that are still in it? Yeah, I remember doing, I was going to make this film, which was an improvised film in England, which was a love story set in the Second World War. And we were doing auditions for their male role.

And at that time, it was the people who came in were Eddie Redmayne, was the first personal auditioning, and then it was Andrew Garfield, and then it was Tom Hardy. Wow. But, yeah, I know. Not bad. So talk about a kind of school of, yeah, coming up in a school of actors. I like to see their different approaches, because those are three. Yeah, I'm going to find those tapes.

Basically, I just want to see the Tom Hardy one. I'm going to be honest with you. Oh, yeah. Interesting. I have a beat on the other two. Tom's a unique character. Yeah. So have you worked with it?

Did he end up in that film with you or not? Well, I didn't. Tom and I actually worked together. We did a TV series called, um, that didn't make it to the second season called Cape Wrath. Okay. So that was, yeah, that was the

art. We didn't make that film together, but then we did this TV show together. Yeah, he's Ace. He's very cool. Oh, my God, he's unbelievable. Yeah, they all had such different approaches. I mean, yeah, it's interesting. So, I mean, the first time I think I probably, and many became aware of you was, like crazy,

was the Drake DeRemis, one of two projects, I guess, you've worked with Drake on. That made quite a splash at Sundance, as I recall. Was that, is that an indelible memory of being at Sundance with Drake and Anton for that? Yeah, definitely. I just remember laughing my head off all the time with those two. I think we did one interview where they pretended to be brothers. Did they warn you about it?

Like, what's my role in this improv sketch? No, I think they've got to that point where, you know, you've sort of been talking about the film for days on end and you slightly lose your head, and then they were just kind of going off on a bit of a tangent. But that was true to making of the film. It was an amazing experience. I know you've talked about that a lot. But was there a script for that or was it's...

No, no. It was, I'd just been making a film in England called Chalet Girl, which was a romantic comedy and was also much of the performance in that film is about timing. And you have to be on the beat, you know, to make the joke work and that sort of thing. And then I went into like crazy, which was so the opposite. You know, I literally touched down in Los Angeles and I was making this improvised film with Drake and I were the same age at the same time

at the time we were making it and it felt, you know, the three of us we felt like these pioneers. We were, you know, it felt really rock and roll when we were making it. Exactly. And there was, you know, there were no sort of, you didn't have to hit your mark or any of that stuff.

It was very kind of free form and a pretty formative experience. I'm going to be at Sundance again this year. there's a documentary that's about Anton's. Yes, yeah, yeah. I can't wait to see. Yeah. Unbelievable.

Yeah, he was a tremendous actor. I'm sure for you, yeah. Yeah, and person, beautiful person. So in the wake of that, I think, you know, we could jump ahead, of course, to something like theory of everything, but I'm curious, like, before that, if you felt like, you know, the quote-unquote, like big breaks, whatever, the big markers in a career, because, you know, I was going back and I was reminded that, like, you had one that actually almost happened that might have changed things a little more prematurely, which was the Warren Beatty project.

Yes, yeah. You were attached to that. Yeah, I worked with Warren on that film for about two years. I was going to say, because, so, like, I know, you know, obviously being a film geek, like, you can tell I am, and I actually had Warren for the podcast, which was an amazing treat. I can only imagine the hours you spent, the days you spent with Warren. He does not just sort of, like, cast somebody.

You're in his life. Yeah. And it was actually fascinating because at one point, Eddie had also been, was going to be in the film, at different times. And actually, Warren Beatty, it was a real education, spending that time with him. And so much of what we'd both learned from him, we took into the area of everything. He was very much a sort of, you know, his voice was in our heads going into that film. Because obviously you watch films like Reds, his incredible. selection of films and what he gets is always a spontaneity and a humanity

and fused with a technique and telling the story so it was almost like because I didn't go to drama school that was almost like a bit of an immersion in in the school of you know I mean all parts of filmmaking really just just spending time with him and hanging out with his kids and and being with his with obviously with a net as well so were those conversations about films and filmmaking or just life I mean I Is he the kind of guy that talk craft and talk like? Yeah. He also has every story known to Matt.

He's like the personification of like the last hundred years of film. He's met everyone you could possibly think of throughout film history. It was, you know, it was very much an education. I mean, obviously working with, um, with Eliy Kazan and, um, and he'd obviously learned so much from him. So, I mean, that's what was, that was amazing about it. Getting that inside track on, you know, all those, those film heroes and heres and heroes. ruins and getting, you know, getting to know, sort of see behind the curtain, I guess. So by the time you get, and that one for whatever reason, it went through a lot of

iterations, I know, didn't end up happening for you. But when something like theory of everything happens for you and Eddie, are you by that time, like, you know, you've been in the business, you've had films that have probably been said to be, this is going to be the one, this is going to be the one that changes everything. And it hasn't always happened that way. So, like, when something like that comes around and you've got a quality filmmaker, an amazing story, it seems like on paper it's going to be the right thing. Do you go in optimistic or kind of like, are you protecting yourself from disappointment? Yeah, I think, I think you have to, I mean, you have to believe in the story. You have to, I guess, yeah. What a heart,

what a shitty way to live your life to go to everything. And if you're always just looking at the future, you know, you can't, I mean, you can't really predict that. I think there was something in theory that was quite powerful is the when um when stephen by necessity has the screen in front of him um and communicates through the screen there was something about that that was tapping into where we all are now that actually stephen hawking was aeons ahead of us all because now we all communicate through screens and there was something in the modernity of that in that um that almost the fusion of the human and the machine, which he became at the end of his life, which enabled him obviously to continue to communicate that we're sort of predicting

where, kind of where we are now. It's fascinating. I haven't thought about it that way. And that took it into a universal sphere, so it wasn't just in the domestic space. Also must have been just a joy to go through that kind of crazy whirlwind with something like Eddie, who has a good head on his shoulders to say the least. Totally. I mean, we just push each other

and we've just been working together with Tom Harper and the three of us, you know, were like maniacs. We just couldn't, we couldn't leave a scene until every stone was unturned and we'd explored every iteration of possibility. He broke on the film, as you know. He got hurt, but you came out of it unscathed, I take it, so you're okay? I bruised a few ribs.

Okay. I didn't realize what kind of a film was. I was talking to him recently about it. It's called the aeronauts. And I was like, it sounds like, oh, it's like a lovely to go up in a hot air balloon. It's a nice little rom-com. No, this is like an intense tale of survival. Exactly.

Yeah, will they make it at the end of the movie? Yeah, it was definitely a trial by fire. Okay, something we'll be talking about a year from now or so probably. We'll be back here. Hopefully with all my limbs intact. Well, you got through it, so I don't know what you're planning the next year on the press tour. Exactly. Who knows what can happen?

We'll be mocking up stunts. Don't make me go up in a hot air balloon to interview you. My wife's been begging me. She wants to go up in a hot air balloon for years. And like, we actually went, we were going one time. But as you know, the winds have to be just right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a perilous experience.

I have to say. You're right. I can tell. Your eyes are saying like, I know a lot. I can tell you, Josh. Yeah, exactly. So would you recommend now having gone through this experience should I acquiesced my wife and go up in a hot air balloon or is it too dangerous?

Absolutely not. I would never set foot in one ever again. That's amazing. You're too reliant on those, these wins, that's for sure. You have really given me a great gift today, thank you. Exactly. Stay tethered to the ground, that's what I'd say. Perfect, perfect.

So you alluded to something that you and both Eddie share, which is meticulousness, like a real kind of like, as you said, not leaving any stone unturned. Has that always been the case? Is that just sort of like, that's your method? That's what gives you joy in a weird way? I mean, I don't even know. The self-hatred.

Yeah. Exactly. That's why you're welcome here. Just a total massacist. Yeah, exactly. I mean, how else are you going to do it? I know, right? I don't trust the people that are satisfied with themselves. Exactly. I mean, how did anyone get anywhere by really loving themselves? I mean, come on. It's a good message to the kids out there. Yeah, exactly. Just accept the hate for yourself and move on.

Totally, totally. We're all fucked up. It's okay. Embrace it. I mean, I think, I mean, you would probably empathize it. It's a sort of perfectionism, isn't it? ultimately and how to harness that in the health this way possible, which is a trial in itself. Is there fear involved at this point? I mean, is there, this is one of those cliche questions, but I often ask it, but I'm curious, like, do you have fear going into a job? Is that part and parcel? I'm starting to think that I really like fear, and I didn't know this about myself. And then increasingly, I'm thinking, wow, somehow that seems to be increasingly important to me. No, I get it.

Yeah, I think it's, I remember when I was younger, I used to really enjoy throwing myself off a very, very high diving board. Oh, we're not talking metaphors here. You're like, I didn't know where that was going. You're like, no, literally I threw myself. Yeah. Well, the sort of literal is then, you know, staggering into the metaphor. Yeah. And so definitely I'm starting to realize I get a bit of a thrill.

I get, I get it. I mean, relating it to like my job, like I've done a lot of like live stuff over the years. And I'm always like, having done this a long time, you would think at this point, it's like, yeah, a piece of cake. never I'm always the jitters right before and at the same time as you were saying it's like it's kind of an adrenaline rush it's a high it's like it's you want to be kind of right on that edge of fear and excitement yeah well yeah exactly i was going to say what is it i guess it's the unknown isn't it yeah knowing that it could go to hell and then makes it more satisfying when it doesn't absolutely absolutely you're kind of like you're just throwing yourself in

out there yeah i guess maybe so much of your life you kind of fool you yourself into thinking that you can control everything and ultimately we know we can't and so to make that situation a reality is somehow madly inspiring sure I'm curious so in the wake of especially the last few years in the wake of like theory in the wake of rogue one has it been more challenge and you have more choice than ever like now you actually have choice as an actor where like early in a career as you well know it's just sort of like you'll hire me great like where's the next gig has that been liberating or also daunting in a way and kind of like you can nest the course

of your own career to a degree. Yeah, I think to a degree, you know, I'm sort of nodding and yeah, yeah. You're like, no, really, Josh. It may seem like that, but nope, still. Exactly. I'm like, yeah, I know exactly what I'm doing. And I'm thinking, I have no idea what's happening in two months.

Do you don't have, do you don't feel like you have choices among roles now? I think so. I mean, I think always you've got to exercise a little bit of choice, you know, even when, you know, you're, I mean, for the most part, you know you're trying to pay the rent um as much as you can i feel like you kind of i mean i find ultimately you try and do stuff that you have you have a shred of belief in and that and that's and that hopefully kind of aligns with with your view of your world view um but i yeah definitely i think um i think you get to have a bit more of a wider perspective and a bit more context right

um so that you get to you know you're not just looking the role as a part of that but also So you're looking at what is this film saying in the world. And definitely having more of a saying that is really exciting. Which obviously speaks to the film we're talking about today. I mean, at the same time, you're talking about, we were talking about someone like Warren Beatty. It's like, there are certain actors that have, like, lived their life on, like, what they've said no to

and, like, making themselves a little bit scarce is not the worst thing in the world, I guess. I mean, look, there are different ways the skin of cat. There's Samuel L. Jackson, who will do six movies a year, and three of them are great, and three of them are going to go direct to DVD. and that's okay. Yeah, I think it's how you like to live your life as well, ultimately, isn't it?

But it does. It seems like, as you say, it seems like there's no rhyme or reason. No. No one has the perfect formula. That's why you're here today to come up with the perfect formula, and you've failed me. I know, I know. I tried really hard. No, again, you've done really good things.

You've brought me back to Sylvanian families, and you've ensured that I'm not going to die in a hot air balloon accident. Okay, good, good. I'm ensuring that your life continues. I lived a podcast another day. What is the, what's the next gig? You know what you're shooting next? Well, Aaron Watts is coming out next year.

And then I'm just, I'm reading and looking at various things and finding that thing that, you know, that makes you go, I'm going to be really scared. Exactly. I have to do this. If I don't do this, then I will not have lived my life. Have you ever done theatre here in New York? I haven't.

Is that intriguing at all? Yeah, definitely. I mean, theater. is you always come, you know, you sound a bit grandiose. You always come back to the theatre. How's I've been saying? Yes, exactly. The theatre.

I mean, it is an art form that has, you know, endured thousands of years. But you do, it does kind of prepare you for anything, you know, even in terms of press. And often, you know, you're talking about the same thing. And theatre gives you the key to unlock that, because obviously that's what you do in theatre. So I, yeah, I'm looking to. to come back to that in the right play and in the right circumstances, yeah, without a doubt. You've been in New York for a second,

have you had a chance to see anything? You're on the publicity tour. You're doing like the Q&A's like crazy. No, I can't wait to actually be an audience member and just, yeah, just to go. And whenever I kind of finish eating, I just try and go and absorb as much as possible. So I'm desperate to see Hamilton,

which everyone says that despite the hype, it is still as good, yeah. So, yeah, hoping to see that. We're having, my husband, a couple of days in New York just to chill and go and see things. There's apparently, the new Jazz Butterworth play I hear is amazing,

the ferryman. Excellent, yeah. And I'm seeing Network tomorrow. Oh, that was the thing. Yeah, that's had fabulous reviews, hasn't it? Yeah, this very interesting director, Yvonne Van Holbe, right? Who's like, I saw him do what, it was the Crucible a couple years ago,

of interesting take on that too. Yeah, really exciting. Yeah, and that story is really pertinent for now, isn't it? Yes, I've always loved that. I mean, that's a classic. That's a perfect film. And yes, again, every, yes, in this time, it's going to be, I think, all the more special. You mentioned the favorite. Do you get inspired by certain actors? Are there certain actors on your list that you always need to sort of see what they're up to? Yeah, well, I mean, I always come back to Merrill Street. I watched it's complicated on the plane again. I think for about the 50 millionth time. Like, how does that film never tie it?

I feel like Nancy Myers films are like the perfect like airport. I don't mean that as a dig. Like it's a, they're just all great on an airplane. Well, there's comfort food. There's something. Yeah, there's something in, um, I love that fusion between humor and drama. There's some of my fate, well, you know, cinema, history of cinema. Some of my favorite films are, a filmmaker who do that.

And obviously, Meryl Streep always gets that combination. She makes it so easy. I know. Well, it was so, yeah, I totally agree again. kind of roughly the same age. So, like, I was think of, like, the James L. Brooks movies, broadcasts news, like that. They just, I mean, again, I sound like an old man. They don't make them like that anymore, but they really, that doesn't even, like,

exist, it feels like. I mean, if it does exist, it's sometimes in, like, a Sundance kind of a thing, like, uh. Yeah, it's getting that combination of entertainment and, um, an ideology. And I, I mean, that's part, I mean, that's probably why I did love on the basis of sex, is that, is that, is that me, she does involve you she does get you you know you're kind of it's like a sports movie yeah in some ways and you're you know there's four minutes that um ruth baby ginsberg gets to change

the world yes this is this amazing rebuttal towards the end um is that's is that a day you like mark on the calendar like that's a great moment as you say it is kind of it's like the it's the punch out moment yeah you get that great moment i just love i just love the way she directed it you know there's a moment where you think she's not going to be able to get up and do it and you know Is she going to make the touchdown? And then Marty goes to stand up and she, and then Mimi has this great close up of Ruth Badergens, but just stop, you know, stopping him and being like,

no, I can do it. I can get through the finish line. But somehow that's what I love movies that have a fusion. Because you were there to be entertained and laugh and celebrate as, as well as hopefully they're being a bit of a takeaway from it. It's also fascinating. I mean, I'd love to have Mimi in here at some point because like her journey is fascinating.

too. I mean, she's somebody that, you know, if you look it up, like, she clearly should have been directing some more features in the last 15, 20 years. And yeah, she's definitely, she's definitely, yeah, I mean, like Justice Ginsburg, they've had to navigate a complex industry that wasn't, that wasn't on their side. But she just has such phenomenal experience and a deep understanding of timing and storytelling. And it's interesting. So many films you can watch, you can sort of admire the endeavor, but does it keep you engaged from start to finish is another thing? This one does, definitely. Well, I mean, it's a good reminder. A, as you said, it's extraordinarily entertaining. I mean, it really is. And it's also just a reminder of good in the universe and progress

that we have achieved in the progress that we still have to strive for in these dark, ominous time. The change is possible, folks. No, it really leaves you on a high, which is an important thing now. And if it can inspire anybody, I mean, you've done a great thing. oh thank you congratulations uh again you're welcome here anytime thanks for stopping by the silly office thank you i absolutely love talking to you every time so thank you very sweet uh and i'll see you anywhere but a hot air balloon on the next yeah no way we'll talk about it to death no way exactly but i will not get in a balloon exactly or anyone uh we fantastic lovely thanks so much and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to

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