Happy Sad Confused - Frank Grillo

Episode Date: March 3, 2021

Frank Grillo is a busy man! With a slew of back to back projects it's a miracle Frank found the time to catch up with Josh on this episode but we're thankful he did! Grillo's story is a remarkable one, from soaps to tiny roles in films to a breakout performance in "Warrior". Now with Marvel movies under his belt, a production company with his buddy Joe Carnahan, and a leading role in an action movie all his own. "Boss Level", there's plenty to talk about. Watch Daisy Ridley on a new episode of STIR CRAZY here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts prepare your ears humans happy sad confused begins now today on happy sad confused frank grillo the working man's actor from warrior and captain america to his new film boss level hey guys i'm josh harrowitz welcome to another

edition of happy sad confused mr frank grillo first time guest on the podcast this week uh and i'm so thrilled say that it came to pass. He is a character and a character actor and a leading man. He can do it all. Frank Rillo is one of those guys. Like, you know, he pops off the screen, doesn't he? Every time I see him, I'm always, you know, the camera just loves him. He's charismatic. He's interesting. He's lived a life. You see that in his face, in his body. He's not 25 years old. He's not trying to be 25 years old. But, you know, the mileage and the years have accumulated. in such a way that at this point in his career, I am just endlessly fascinated by what he's doing. And I'm so thrilled that I got a chance to get to know Frank for the first time, I think our

first time chatting for this edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Frank, you probably know, most people know him, of course, in recent years from his small but pivotal roles in the Captain America films, crossbones. But also, you know, his collaborations with Joe Carnahan and Gavin O'Connor, these two filmmakers that have really seen a lot in him and really exposed what he can do. Gavin O'Connor in Warrior about 10 years ago really changed the course of Frank Grillo's career. Frank Rillo had been a soap actor, kind of as I said, a working man's actor. He'd been a jobbing actor doing a ton of TV work, small roles in films here and there. But Warrior, which is really such a fantastic film. If you haven't seen it, I highly

recommended this film, this drama set in the world of MMA with Joel Edgerton and Tom Hardy and Nick Nolte really featured Frank in a great way and show that he could play with the big boys. These are some of the best actors on the planet. And since then, as I said, his collaborations with Joe Carnahan and the Grey and now in boss level, they've formed a partnership. So there's a lot going on in Frank's life. That's great. And he is, he's also, by the way, just a great straight shooter, like a super honest, open, funny, self-deprecating, but confident mix of brute and artists. That's a fascinating combo. So, so yeah, really thrilled that I got a chance to know him and you'll be charmed by him as I certainly was. His new film, as I said,

is boss level. It's out on Hulu on March 5th. It's a balls-to-the-wall crazy action movie, a high-concept action movie, kind of Groundhog Day, meets Die Hard. He is the lead, which is a great opportunity for him, and basically keeps reliving the same day, being killed in endlessly absurd ways. Co-stars Mel Gibson, and yeah, it's got a lot of crazy action in it, some heart in it, some silly humor, some dark humor, some depraved humor. but that's kind of the in the mix of what Joe Carnahan always does. So if you like Carnahan's work, if you like Crank Gorilla's work, I highly recommend boss level March 5th on Hulu. Other things to mention, I do want to mention the latest episode of Stir Crazy,

which I'm so excited about guys. It's the voice of Happy Sagan Fused. It's the voice you heard on the intro and the voice you hear if you stick to the bitter end. Daisy Ridley on Stur Crazy, my Comedy Central show. I adore Daisy Ridley. How can you not? So talented, so fun. When I think back to the few short years, I've known Daisy and how far she's come and how her career has expanded and gone in interesting ways and how our relationship has grown.

And to the point where she's trusted me to do my silly Comedy Central talk show. She's so good on the show, guys. I'm so thrilled with this episode. Lots of fun. Star Wars stuff in there for. fans like me, yeah, you're going to dig it. And there's a big, big surprise for Daisy that she did not know was coming. It wouldn't be a surprise otherwise, right? Sometimes you see on talk shows, by the way, the quote-unquote surprise. And I'm very attuned to this as someone

that's worked on talk shows, has done my own stuff. I have a real censor for like, okay, that's supposed to be a surprise. Probably not a surprise. This, guys, I guarantee you, was a surprise. No publicist knew. Daisy certainly didn't know I knew my folks knew you'll know it when you see it but it's a big fun surprise guest star that

blew Daisy Ridley's head off in a good way so check out that episode on Comedy Central's YouTube page on their Facebook page on my social media feed Joshua Horowitz I also got a chance to talk to Daisy's co-star in her new film Chaos Walking

Tom Holland the one and only Tom Holland. I don't think that interview is up quite yet, but it will be soon. I did that for MTV. Again, if you follow me on the socials, on Twitter, on Instagram, you won't be able to miss it. But that was a fun chat as well. He's promoting his new film, Cherry, which he delivers a stellar performance guys. He's collaborating with the Russo Brothers, but this is not the Avengers. This is not Spider-Man. This is a tale of a young man suffering from PTSD who's dealing with substance issues, and it really just shows the range of Tom Holland's acting ability. I mean, anybody that saw

Tom Holland prior to Spider-Man and saw him in The Impossible, for instance, knows that this guy is more than a charming superhero. He can do a lot. And he's just getting started. He's 24. I sometimes forget that. He's just 24. That's thrilling to see what's to come for Tom, and Cherry is just the start of something big. So anyway, the conversation is fun and serious at times, but there's a lot there. So look out for my chat with Tom Holland. I was thrilled to catch up with him for that. Let's see, anything else I wanted to mention?

Oh, well, another film that's opening this week, I do want to recommend, is Raya and the Last Dragon. I'm not necessarily always the biggest animation fan. I mean, I like animation all right. I know what Pixar films, but I was really struck by this one. This is a beautiful Disney animated film, like just beautiful in terms of the artistry. And all their films are great, but like very, the visual is really impressed me. And it's a big adventure film. It has Kelly Marie Tran and Aquafina, and it will, certainly if you have kids, they're going to eat it up.

But, like, I as a 97-year-old man appreciated it and was, was. was constantly amused and entertained. So that is, that's not always the case for animation. So I do want to mention that Riot and The Last Dragon. I believe that's on Disney Plus. I don't know if you have to pay an extra thing for it or not. It might be one of these like Premiere Access things, but I'm sure if you have kids, you're going to end up buying it anyway,

but know that it's a fun piece of work. So anyway, let's get to the main event. Remember, as always, and I sometimes have to say this just to say it, But let me remind you guys, the reviews and the ratings actually really do matter and really do help expand the audience of HappySac infused. So actually, let's think about this for a second. Let's take a moment. If you haven't already, I would really appreciate it. This is coming from the heart.

Go over to Apple Podcasts and give us a five-star rating. I'll take a four-star rating, I guess. But give me the five stars. I've done 350 shows, guys. I'm here for you. I'm not making money off of this. And if you're so kind and want to leave a kind comment, please do so. As I said, it's really just so other folks can discover the podcast.

And that's what this is about, sharing my love of film and TV and comedy and arts and entertainment with as many folks as possible. All right, here he is Mr. Frank Grillo, the man that I will never be. But that could probably describe every actor I speak to on this podcast, but Frank Grillo especially. The guy's got muscles and places I didn't know muscles could go. Here is my chat with Frank Gorilla. I'm Josh. I don't think we've had the pleasure. Thanks for doing this, man. Josh, where are you? I'm in New York. I believe this is your first place.

It's snowing in the back? It is snowing. This is not just perfect. What is going on with the weather in New York? I know. We had like no snow last year, and this is like our second snowstorm in like 10 days. I'm supposed to come back, I think, next week, and do Bill, that show Billions. Yeah. And they want me to quarantine for like a week. Like, if it's going to be nasty, I'm going to be in a hotel room like.

Will. Staring at the black snow outside. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. You're in L.A., I assume. Look, let me show you. That's right. I hate you.

Can we switch for a day at least? I haven't left my apartment in like 10 months. Help me. Over, Josh. Come over. Get on the car. All right. There's no formality here.

but I don't know how Frank Grillo has evaded my grasp for this long. I'm a big fan of your work, man. Thanks for doing the show. Thank you, brother. So you are the busiest man in show business. You're James Brown reincarnated. Talk to me. This is a day off, I presume.

What's a day off from work look like for Frank Grillo? I train first thing in the morning for a few hours, and then I come home and I go in my pool and I wait for my kids to be done with school, and then I hang out with my kids and drink some red wine and do the whole thing all over again. That sounds in keeping with the theme of boss level.

But talk to me, so, yeah, so you mentioned the gym. You're a gym rat, safe to say. I feel like I can see the muscles coming out of your neck right now. I have a gym rat. I've been boxing my whole life, so I box every day, and I lift weights and do all kinds of fun stuff. stuff. When did that start?

Was that like just when you were a kid? You got into the gym or what? You know, since I was, since I can remember being a kid, I've always been involved in fitness and what I ate was very important. Since I'm a boy, since I'm 10 years old. So how much, I'm curious because like you have this kind of yin and yang in your career where like you're obviously known for your physicality. It's a big part of your persona and what you can bring to a role, but you don't want to be just

that. other sides to you and you've shown other sides to yourself. So I guess I'm curious like how much you tie your own physicality, your own fitness, to your worth as an actor. You know, that's a great, that's a phenomenal question. And here's the deal. It's, you know, it's impossible to not, to deny my truth. And my truth, I hate saying that because I sound so dumb.

But my truth is that I'm a physical. guy, right? It's part of, a big part of my personality. So even in roles, like I did this thing, billions, where I played an artist, it's impossible not to have my physicality be a part of who this artist is. Right. Otherwise, I'd have to manufacture something. And that, and then you're just, it's, I suck. So it's who I am. If you hire me, it's part of what I am. I'm going to be the, even if I play the guy who's a little afraid, it's like, I can only be a little afraid. Because in my real life, if you need any tips on how to be afraid, by the way, of how to live a different kind of a life, I'm here for you. I don't know that I could

manufacture it. I could, this could be a facsimile of it. Right. But, you know, I'm afraid. Other things make me afraid. In other words, something about my children makes me. afraid if I think about that that makes me afraid you know maybe it keeps me up at night but anything out in the world it does nothing there's nobody that makes me afraid so so as an actor I've got to I've got to honor that and and not make believe that I'm not that right yeah let me see yeah absolutely you start with the commonalities with a character as opposed to the differences start with the stuff you share why start with all the stuff you don't share exactly and I

I've been offered so many things where I go, you know, I just, and there's actors I love who I, I said, maybe Patrick Wilson would be good at that, you know? I mean, he's so good and I believe him in that. Like, I don't believe me in. Right, right. You know what I mean? I talk myself out of plenty of role. Well, you're talking yourself into plenty, too, because you've got like so many, so many films coming up, so many films in the can. How many films have you shot this last year? Because I've talked to so many actors that have like basically taken the year off out of necessity or out of, you know, just because like take a pause. You haven't taken a pause. I just, I mean, I was doing billions when COVID hit. And then

I shot a movie during COVID in March out in Oklahoma called Ida Red with Josh Hartnett and myself, Melissa Leo. And then I shot a big one with Carnahan for our company called Copshop with me and Jerry Butler, which we finished about a month ago. And then I've, you know, I've got six or eight movies coming out that have been bottlenecked because of what's going on with COVID and stuff. So, yeah, I'm kind of sick of myself. Where does the work ethic come from? Is that in the family?

Is that in your, something you developed? Like, where did that start? You know, I think a lot of it comes. My father never had a career. He had a series of jobs. a laborer and uneducated immigrant family. And my father did a lot of things not right, but the one thing he did every day was he got up

and he put his shoes on and he went to work every day. Every single day, my father was not lazy. And I think that's where it started. That's where it started as far as, you know, looking at a parent, like the guy always got up and went to work. You know, whether he was making $25 a day or $50 a day, he went to work. And it wasn't fun what he was doing.

And I think that started my, this, I have an obsession about working and being always on time. And if someone's paying you to give them 100%. So I'm a blue, I am as blue collar as you can be. Yeah. And I take pride in it. And I take pride in work and being prepared. I would think an aspect of it too. It sounds like you've always had it. But, you know, I will get to kind of like the interesting arc of your career. But like the fact that the major successes have come like post 40, like have come all of not major. All of my success is post 40. So that that's fascinating because I guess I mean whether you're conscious of it,

or not, there must be an aspect to it where it's like, I'm going to fucking take advantage of this. This is like, it took me long enough. And now is not the time to sit around by the pool. I'm going to make the best of it. And, you know, I live in Hollywood now. I've grown up in New York, but I live in a place where people get to a certain age and they start to give up. And I have a very, I have a mentor in my life, who's also one of my dearest friends, who's a very successful man, Kevin Yvain, who is one of the partners of CAA, the big giants company, who said to me, there are no rules in life. I would get down, you know, hey, I'm just doing this.

I'm not doing that. He says, listen to me, there are no rules in life. Nobody's deciding when you can or can't be successful. It's not written anywhere. And so this is just an illusion. So keep Just keep working hard Keep getting better at what you do

And keep going That's that's that's you know And I know it sounds simple In theory But many people stop You know many people believe I'm too old Or whatever it is And I just

I won't do it You know I still I'm in the gym today boxing And I'm sparring with a 22 year old kid You know I'm 55 years old Right And guess what I'm beating him and he's getting tired and I'm like so it's all an illusion man I really believe it whether it's physical mental emotional spiritual whatever we want to be we can be you really can

I know it sounds a little hokey and you know who's this actor saying this but this is how I live my life and it works no I mean and there and there we're you know as much talk as there is about acting and your business being youth obsessed there are so many examples like my argument be my favorite actor of all time that comes up on this podcast often it's like jean hackman jean hackman didn't like start till he was like 38 that was like his like first film that's why by the way that's my guy try to find jean hackman untruthful in one moment of any scene and i bet you you won't be able to do it and by the way when he was done in his 70s or wherever he was he said i'm done right again did it on his term goes off to Arizona, does what he wants.

Listen, you know, my career is an interesting career. I have to do movies for money sometimes. I have a family to pay for. I'm not a wealthy guy, so it's not always the best things. But I've been involved in some great things. It's been an up and down thing. I don't make excuses for it. It is what it is.

I look at a guy like Gene Hackman and I go, to me, that is the career. If I could have a career, that's the career I want. No, I hear you. There's never a false note in a Hackman role. That's why I, too, am obsessed. Talk to me a little bit about, you know,

we'll get to kind of the successes, notably in the last like 15 years and such, but like I'm curious, like, your 20s. Like, who were you in your 20s? Like, you weren't... No, I was a jerk. I was an idiot. I was...

I was... Look, again, my parents were teenagers when they had me. I come from an immigrant family from southern Italy. You know, it was about survival. Yeah. And beyond that, it was about family. So the only joy that you got in life, nobody ever told me to read a book.

Nobody ever told my brothers or six. It was about, you know, on Saturdays and Sundays, we had meals and we created this environment that they had in Italy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So in my 20s, everything I thought I knew about life was wrong. It was wrong. Everything I thought about being a man was wrong.

And it took me a decade because I didn't have anybody teaching me. My parents, and I don't blame them, they were very young. It's stuff I had to figure out by either emulating other people or just by happenstance or by failing. and trying again. Do you know what I mean? So if I run into you in your 20s, what would I've said about Frank Rillo, just meeting him at a work?

Oh, he was an asshole. How so, though? What do you mean? Just, you know what? He was, and it was all fake. It was all kind of, it was all a bunch of nonsense. It was all, let me be, you know, macho

or I don't care. Right, right. With girlfriends. It was like, you know, you know you should be lucky to be like it just not it was it was not a guy if I go back and see my 20 year old self it's not a guy that I like or I'm proud of right it's not I go back to 35 year old Frank Rillo at 36 year old then I go oh this guy I'm starting to like that's the guy at 35 and 36 who enabled me to get here right so how old how old are you when you get on the

soap. When does that happen? Oh, I'm in my late 20s on the soap. Okay. So still a little bit of asshole-ishness, but you're starting to come out of your shell a little bit, hopefully. And by the way, I thought I was way above the soap. I was doing like stupid little plays and New York theater. And I thought, I mean, never like Broadway, but I was like, you know, you think you're the cool guy. You're not really the cool guy. Right. And so doing all these stupid avant-garde plays and they were used, they were dumb. And then I got on the soap. And immediately thought I was better than that, immediately, and immediately was trying to get off the soap from, you know, you sign a three-year contract. And now I look back in retrospect,

it was such a good time. It was such a great learning experience. But you're acting, and you're acting a lot. I was acting a lot. And you know what I had to do also? I had to read a lot. Like a lot of actors forget to read. So because I was doing a script today on the soap, I had to constantly read and constantly understand cause and effect and constantly break down scripts and so I didn't appreciate any of that because why I was better than that right for what reason I have no idea so now I look back at it so fondly sure and so appreciatively and and uh any actor that gets an opportunity to act is a is a lucky actor were you post the soap and prior to kind of like the Frank Grillo Renaissance, whatever, we want to call it,

the associations with people like Carnahan and Gavin O'Connor. So that period in between, you know, you look at the resume, you're accumulating like a lot of credits. Like you're working in TV, you're getting some pilots, some series. Yeah. I'll tell you this, whether you knew me or not, I was never not working. I always worked, always. I was on Lifetime series. I was always working, making a good living. Like I was under the radar or beyond the radar.

But as an actor, acting, I was getting my experience and I was constantly working. Right. So I never waited tables. I never had to, you know, I never had to be a roofer. I was always an actor. And so in that aspect, I was very fortunate. A lot of it, I think, was, I looked a certain way

when I was a younger man, like I was kind of, you know, now I'm a mutt. But back then I was cute. And so I think that kind of helped me a little bit, you know? Yeah. Who's the first director that saw something in you, saw something more in you maybe than others were, you think, who recognized something more was going on? That's such a great singular question. Who is the first?

I don't know who the first director was. I can tell you who the first producer was. Sure. Was Stephen Bachco? Oh, no kidding. I mean, a legend in the business for those that don't know. Yeah. It was the first time I had come to California.

I had signed with a big agency, UTA, and my very first meeting was for a new show that Stephen Bocchko was doing to replace NYPD Blue. And he had seen all my tapes and he said, I want to meet this guy, and I met him late. It was like five in the afternoon at his, on the lot, the Fox lot, and I went in and I sat with Stephen Bocchka for an hour. And, you know, it's Stephen Bocchko, NYPD Blue.

I remember at the end it was sit, Oboo, sit, was the, was his dog, right? Do you remember that? Of course, yeah. I was more impressed with, I'm going to go meet that guy, right? And we talked for an hour. I didn't audition. We talked, and this was the power of Stephen Botte. NYPD Blue was on the air and he said to me I want you to do this show and I was like I was fresh off the airplane I said okay and he goes but here's what I want you to do I'm going to send your agents the deal the information that I don't want you to I don't want you to negotiate I don't want you to I said he said I want you you don't have to audition you don't have to screen test you

You're the guy, but I want you for me to trust me and just say yes. And I did that. And it started a whole thing with me and Steve. I then did three or four pilots with Stephen Botchko. Wow. And that was the first time somebody really believed in me the essence of who I was. And it made me an act.

It made me legitimate because no one in my family was. an actor, but I remember thinking, I can do this. Like Stephen Botchko picked me. Yeah. So what did what did the friends and family back home think of, frankly, budding artist, considering that there was nothing. It was like, you're doing what? Yeah. But my mother, rest her soul, the minute I got on the soap opera, because my grandmother used to watch that soap opera, that was it. I was, I might as well have been Clark Gable, right? And so when I quit, I quit the soap opera. I want nothing to do it. I quit as soon as I could. They couldn't understand, these are immigrant people. And I was making, say I was making $2,000 a day, right? And so, I mean, there was a lot of money. And they would say,

wait a minute, wait a minute, you're quitting your job on the TV show to get to be on another TV show. on the TV. When you think about it, isn't that kind of interesting, though? I mean, they have a point. It's just another TV show. Right. In any event, that's when they started to kind of watch me and, you know. Amazing.

So about, it's only, I guess, doing the math, it's only 10, 11 years ago when the big shift happens and you have a hell of a year, if I, if my date's right, and you have Warrior and the Grey out both in 2011. End of, end of Watch. End of Watch Gray from David Eyre, of course. So you're working with some really, and very kind of similar in some ways, filmmakers, at least aesthetically or creatively.

Yeah. Which one came first? Well, let's start with Carnahan, because that obviously follows all the way through into Boston. Carnahan, here's where it started. Here's where it all started. I did a movie called Pride and Glory. Right, with Gavin.

With Gavin. With Colin Farrell and Ed Norton, Jennifer Eel. And that was Gavin from, that movie, I started to get heat. I mean, I got phone calls from guys like Ari Emanuel from William Morris and, you know, come to my agency. Okay, so then it starts, right? And then from that movie, I go do Warrior again with Gavin O'Connor. Right. And that, when I tell you, I got phone calls from everybody. Actors, producers, agents, Nat started.

the whole thing growing. Well, as you well know, and I'll give you, like, in my perspective, I love Warrior. Warriors, like, I mean, one of the best films in the last 15 years. It's just so rewatchable and fantastic. And it's not only you popping off the screen, but you holding your own and more than holding your own against Nalti, Joel, Hardy, like, these are the guys. Right. I don't know if they are your guys or what, but, like, talk to me about, like, you know,

again, you're 40 by now or something. Did you... I am. I'm 40. I'm 42, three years old. Had you by then resigned yourself to a different kind of career, or were you like, there's still a shot for me to go to another level? No, I didn't resign myself because I've had people in my life who had said, don't stop doing what you're doing. It may seem like little wins, but they're not.

People are starting to recognize you. There are no rules. There's not an age where you have to be famous or, well known or respected keep going right so i was just like and i always felt younger than i ever was and i've always kind of looked a bit younger because i train and keep myself i was just you know nobody knew joel edgerton nobody knew tom hard so i figured i'm and by the way in warrior my role that you see on the screen was not on the page no kidding I did that.

You know why? I said, this is an opportunity for me to show my friend, Gavin O'Connor, really what an MMA coach is, because I knew far more about what they were writing about than they did. This is where it came my experience in my real life. It really took advantage. I took advantage of it. I was like, I knew more than every one of them. And Gavin kept everything I said in the movie.

I snuck a peek at a conversation you were doing just before this and I was so pleased that you mentioned one of my favorite actors. We've already bonded over Hackman but it sounds like Nolte was the guy that meant a lot to you. He's been on the podcast by the way

and it was like an hour of just sheer bliss for me hearing that growl and those stories, that guy talking about the relationship with Nick and what it meant to you. Yeah, and you know, look, I'm sure the way I described the relationship to me

for Nick, It's an entirely other conversation, right? But he gave me so much of himself because he was kind of alone during filming that movie. Do you know what I mean? Like, those guys didn't care. Like, I was like, this is Nick Nolte. And I'm going to hang out with him.

And he liked me, and I liked him. And, you know, little by little, he started to shit. You know, you get a guy like that who's on the tail end of his. You know what I mean? Yeah, he's seen a lot. And he's on the other side of an insane career. Of course, yeah.

He's on the other side of whatever it is. And to find a guy like me who is so, I'm a dude, right? So dudes like me because I'm a dude. So it's easy for me to communicate with guys like that. And when he saw how interested I was in what he was, he opened himself up to me. Yeah. And from that, I learned I got an MBA. and a PhD all, you know, it was amazing what he taught me.

Amazing. Yeah. So the gray, which is the first collaboration, I believe, with Joe Carnahan, who has obviously now become a huge part of your professional life. Carnahan, Carnahan's a character too. I go way back with Joe. I did a book of interviews with young filmmakers

and he was just coming off NARC. So that's how far back I go with Joe. So I know the crazy you're dealing with and the best possible way. On the daily. So talk to me about what you guys clicked, why this relationship works or doesn't work at times. Yeah, you know, I think what Joe saw in me from the gray was, again,

I took a character that was probably secondary, and I elevated the guy through sheer grit and hard work to become the second lead to Liam Neeson, right? That was not written that way. Right. And I think what Joe saw in that and appreciated is what he sees in himself is the guy who's got to work harder than everybody else. Yeah. From that film, we became so, I mean, he's my brother. He's my, he's, you know, I'll lay down and die for him. Like, he's my guy, right? And I respect him as an artist and as a director and writer more than anybody.

And I know what this guy's capable of far more than anybody else. And he's got so much great stuff. front of it. And that movie, the gray, it bonded us in a way that, you know, years later, he got a script called Wheelman, and he said, I think we have something here. And if you can do this, I will find us a director in this young writer that I think will be a long-term relationship, but I'll ghost him and we'll make the movie together. And that launched our career together. That launched our company. So now you have a company.

Now you're producing and that takes us up to boss level, which is a wild ride, a high concept, balls to the wall action movie with some heart, with some nastiness. It's possible to have both. That's Joe Carnahan. That's Joe Carnahan. Yeah.

You know, for it all, Through it all, through the machismo, the masculinity, through the jokes, through the dirty jokes with Joe Carnahan is heart. Yeah. First and foremost, it's hard. That guy's got more heart than anybody. I know. I mean, he really does. So you're leading, you're obviously the center of the frame of this.

This is the Frank Gorilla show. This is, for those that don't know, it is kind of in that groundhog day concept mashed up with an action concept. a little edge of tomorrow, a little, I don't know, what was in the pitch meeting? What did you guys? What did you guys say? Dinehard meets Groundhog Day. Perfect. Easy, right? I said easy and then I know it took you like 10 years to make this. So it's never easy. So, um, talk to, but you know, it's interesting. It's like, it's such a physical role, which obviously we've talked about, and only a few people like you could pull this off. It's also probably maybe the most dialogue you've ever had. Like you're narrating this thing. It's like memento, basically. Oh, it goes on forever.

it goes off forever and it is physical and it is you know we had 41 days originally and about an hour and a half before we started shooting the film with 300 employees they told us we had 27 days or to cancel the movie so again Joe Carnahan is the captain of the ship he said a frantic night did you guys did you I seriously consider we're not we're not firing we're not telling these people to go home yeah they've been with us for a month and a half they're depending on us to get paid what do we do and so we sat down for we we sat down through the night and we boarded we took a 41 day shoot and we boarded it for 27 days which meant I didn't have five takes I had two

takes or one take and I didn't have three times to jump out of the building. I had one time to jump out. So all of that stuff became truncated. But you know what? I got to tell you something. Sometimes it works out for the best. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Sometimes it works out for the best. I guess I watched you die in this one probably 50, 60 times at least. I'm not sure. It wasn't keeping count. But do you have a favorite way you've been killed on screen in past, in past films leading up to boss level? Or in this one? I die in so many movies. I mean, up until now, the best way I died was getting to give the speech to Captain America and then blowing up. I mean, come on. I mean, it doesn't get any better than that,

you know, laughing in his face and then dying. But I think getting my head chopped off 4,000 times is my favorite way. Also, when the little guy blows me up, it's also, it's also growing up or... Growing up? Yeah, yeah. Man, easy. Bronson, Stallone, Mel Gibson, Arnold Schwarzenegger,

Stephen Seagal, even John Claude Van Dam. Right. McQueen, more so because I just loved McQueen. Like, he was cool. The coolest guy on the play. But, you know, those were the guys. And I've since become really good friends with, like Stallone.

And I've become friends with him. Donald Schwarzenegger. Yeah. It's been a real interesting journey in my life. I, sometimes I pinch myself. You know, you could become a big movie star. I'm not bad. I'm not a movie star, but look, I'm in the mix, right?

I'm doing my thing. But to go and to meet the people that when you were young were so important in your young life, and then to get their respect, and then to ask for them to ask you opinion. Yep. Did you, it's really kind of...

No, I hear you. I hear it. In my own small way, I totally relate. Like, I always say to people, it's like, it's the, it's like when Kurt Russell comes on the podcast and sits in my office for an hour, that I'm like, what the... By the way, Kurt Russell, another one. I, I, basically, I imagined my entire character in the purge. The whole thing was based on Escape from New York.

It was Kurt Russell's silhouette. Amazing. The way he talked, it was all, me and James DeMonico watched escape from New York 35 times. So I'm curious, and you've worked with some, and you mentioned a couple of these icons. You mentioned Mel. You've worked with Bruce Willis. What's the deal with Bruce, what's the deal with Bruce Willis now? Where is Bruce in his career?

I'm, I, let's, I'll speak frankly here. I don't know what's going on with him. Does he care about acting anymore? Does he, does the juice? No, he does. He does. He does. He does.

You know, Bruce is a valuable asset in the world of independent filmmaking. Yeah. And without speaking out of line, I think Bruce has experienced some health issues and is trying his best to kind of maintain being Bruce Willis, you know? And I think some people take advantage of Bruce. Got it. I've done a bunch of movies with him. I have a movie coming out with him.

I don't know what it looks like. But I have to tell you this about Bruce. He's an incredible guy. I think he's given so much to cinema. Oh, yeah. Right? He's given so much to us as audience members. You know, I just hope it's, I hope, like any great fighter,

I just hope that Bruce gets out of it. Okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, no. And I hear you and I appreciate you speaking. Elkin, because we don't always know what's going on in someone's life and the reasons they do things.

And I love how Frank you are. I always love it when an actor is Frank about the choices they make in a career. It's like, you know, I got bills to pay. There are different reasons to do different kinds of roles. Brother, I got to tell you, 30% of the movies that I've done, I'm not, I'm not proud of particularly. I'm not going to beat myself up. I needed to pay my bills.

I have three kids. You know what I mean? I've got to make sure they're okay. And so, yeah, I wish I could be Christian Bale and pick the specific movies and be great. And if I could do that, I would be great. But I also am not Christian Bale and my kids need to eat.

And I need to make sure my family is safe. So people don't think about that from actors. It's like some of the things I do because I get to do them because I'm lucky and people ask me to do them and some of the things I have to do because I have a mortgage and my kids have to have a coat to go to school with. I'm not kidding. I'm not. I hear you. I absolutely. And I respect that. Captain America, this is, again, just raises the profile in enormous ways.

Game changer. So how did that, did you know the Rousseau's? Like, how did that come about? You know how? The Rousseau saw the gray. I got a call from Joe Russo after I did The Grey, and he said, I think you're the most underrated actor in Hollywood. I went, well, that's awesome. We can be friends now. You are. And then I'm on set.

I'm on set doing a movie called Homefront with Jason Statham, which, by the way, has become one of the number one movies on Netflix. I saw that. That's crazy. Terrible. And they wanted me to come and screen test for a movie called Caputeman. in America the Winter Soldier and the producers were generous enough to let me leave Atlanta and I flew back to LA me and like seven dudes and I screen tested I was last

and I screen tested for this role of crossbones Brock Rumlow and I had to sign six thousand things saying I would never say anything and of course I did And then as I'm leaving, Joe Russo came and caught up to me and he said, I'll see you soon. That's what you want to hear. I think I got that job. What do fans in the normal times, I guess, when they see you on the street, what do they want to talk to you about crossbones? What's the question? You know, is he coming back?

The thing is, if I say one thing, it's taken so out of context. And, you know, I don't know. who do i don't know who knows if anybody comes back i don't you know it's a it's a comic book people come back we never know if marvel call i just did the uh what if we just i did another episode of what if marvel call if kevin fidey calls and says this is what we're doing and we want i'm in how about this you don't even have to pay me i'm in you you you think you don't know No, the way this movie has changed, I'm in a couple of these movies. The way they've changed my career globally is ridiculous.

Because of those movies, I did a movie called Wolf Warrior 2 in China, which made a billion and a half dollars and made me famous in China because of Captain America. The domino effect, yeah. I don't, listen, I would love to go back. I would love to do more. I would do a Crossburn TV show. I'll do Crossbones commercials.

Never, but it's probably not going to happen. Look, we're in the multiverse now. Let's never say never. What do you, are there directors, are there actors that you gravitate towards, that you as a fan put on the list and say, I would vibe with them. Like, I would get along with excellence.

Yeah. Well, as now as a producer, Joe Carnahan and I have made six movies under our war party banner and a TV show. And so now I think more producerially or equally producerally as they do as an actor. Now I'm looking for younger people.

I'm trying to find the dudes who were out there who were men before they were actors. Because what I'm noticing is there's a lot of actors who aren't men yet and they should be. And I'm not interested in them. They're not bad actors. I just don't believe them.

Right. They haven't lived a life. You know, I see my, I see guys like Johnny Bernthal and guys I've become friendly with. And I'm like, you know, and every once in a while, we'll text back and forth and I'll say, what are you doing, what, you know, and Johnny and I are looking to do something together.

And, you know, so I'm always trying to find kindred spirits. My buddy Colehouser, who's doing Yellowstone, we're always trying to find something that's like, I'm trying to find, because I want to make movies with dudes, about dudes, dudes who are authentic. Yeah. And, uh, you know, that's kind of my thing. A big Bernthal fan. Yeah, I was wondering how you guys have not crossed paths yet. Like there are several, you so many people have tried to put us together. Really? Yeah. We just have to find the right.

I think I might have something right now that that might be the thing. Are you ever going to direct or is that just Joe's side of the job? You know, directing is not easy. It is all encompassing how people like Sean Penn have directed and acted in the same thing. It's amazing to me. I love producing. I'm actually pretty good at it. I really am. And Joe keeps pushing me to direct. I was set to direct a couple of episodes of Kingdom, but then it got canceled. I think I will direct eventually, but it will be something very contained. Got it. And from that, I'll see if I'm, I have an aptitude for it if I'm good at it. Good stuff, man.

So what's the next gig? What are you off to next shooting-wise? I'm off to, you know, I got this movie Body Brokers that dropped today with the director John Swap, who I've subsequently done another movie with Josh Hartnett called Ida Red, and I'm about to go off to Oklahoma and do another film with him. And then I have, I think I have three or four movies just kind of back to back. No rest for the weary. It's been really fun to catch up, man.

You're the real deal on screen and off, and I appreciate that. I wish you the best of luck with a boss level. Guys should check it out. It's on Hulu. It's a wild ride. I can't believe you did it in 27 days. I'm glad your body's intact. Stay safe out there, man.

Good talking to you. Thank you, brother. A real pleasure, and I look forward to talking again. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley,

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