Happy Sad Confused - Garrett Hedlund

Episode Date: January 2, 2018

A new year of “Happy Sad Confused” begins with a newcomer to the podcast, Garrett Hedlund!  With his latest film, “Mudbound”, Garrett once again proves his taste runs more indie than blockbuster. Plus, he’s got a new Steven Soderbergh show, “Mosaic” to talk about! Garrett talks to Josh about his memorable film debut in “Troy” (and why he wore a pink thong to a meeting with Brad Pitt), the saga of bringing “On the Road” to the big screen, why he’s just fine with opting out of franchise film opportunities like “Captain America” and “Akira”, plus he sings!  Also revealed, what sounds like the coolest fantasy football league in existence, a league that counts Garrett, Chris Pratt, Miles Teller, Chris Evans, John Krasinski, Don Cheadle, Paul Rudd, Jeremy Renner, and James Marsden.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Sadden, Confused, Garrick Headland on Mudbound and mixing it up with Steven Soderberg, or Mosaic. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to the podcast.

Welcome, Sammy. Thank you. Well, that's a really nice greeting and reception of the greeting. Does Garrett Headlin have an accent? He does. He's from Minnesota. Oh. Oh, not that kind of it.

I was picturing him being British. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. When if you were like Gary? I don't speak with a British accent. Well, clearly never.

But I feel like it's a very, like the nate, it's not a real, it's a, it has a pomp and circumstance to it. I could see that. But he's, no, he is, he's Salt of the Earth, Minnesota boy. What do I know? He's an all-American chap. Lovely to talk to Garrett, who stars, as I said, in Mudbound, if you guys have not caught this, movie, a wonderful movie from D. Reese starring Carrie Mulligan, Mary J. Blige, Jason Mitchell, and yes, Garrett Hedlin, this great ensemble. It's a, you know, it's a, it's a tough movie.

It's a rough movie. It's not like necessarily a pleasant subject matter, but it's one of those movies that is just beautifully shot with great performances. And I believe it's, I believe it's on Netflix. Netflix, it sure is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can watch that, so you've no excuses. No excuses. No excuses. Go see my doubt now. Also, we talk a little bit about in this conversation, he's popped him in this unusual project called Mosaic. You probably haven't heard about this.

I have not heard of this. Yeah, because it hasn't gotten a lot of press yet. So Mosaic is a Steven Soderberg project, and by virtue of that, you know it's going to be unusual and different because Soderberg loves to kind of just push at different types of narratives. And this one is right now available as an app on your phone. What? What?

I don't get it. And it's a, it's not quite choose your own adventure kind of thing, but it is like you can basically follow different characters, different perspectives on a story, and you can kind of like steer the story a bit. It's going to eventually, I think pretty soon, pop up on HBO as a traditional TV series, so you can watch it that way. It's like the adventure most people chose or what they end up cutting together is the... I think it's, no, I think it's simply whatever Soda Brothop made sense is a 30-minute show.

but um well i like my idea i'll let let let's stephen know um so you can check out uh garret in that project as well and also stars sharon stone she's been popping up yeah what else she was disaster artists that's right um wait was she a disaster artist

yes she plays the agent oh yeah because i was going to say Melanie Griffith yeah yeah yeah got it got it okay I was excited to see both of them equally what an ensemble yeah anyway back to garrette's visit to the podcast long overdue. I've probably mentioned this on the podcast before. We mentioned in the course of this conversation. Garrett and I go way back because my brother, Adam Horowitz,

blah, blah, blah, is a writer and he co-wrote Tron Legacy. So Garrett and I got to know each other in the course of those shenanigans. And it's been lovely to stay in touch with him ever since and to see his career progress. He's made very cool, interesting choices. He's not your cookie cutter leading man. He definitely chooses project. in a way that that speaks to his love of the craft more than, you know, just naked box office ambition. So I respect that in Garrett. And he's always somebody I'll keep tabs on. Keep rooting for him. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So it is 2018. Boy made it. We did it, guys. Yay. We did it guys. So I was mentioning this to you right before we

tape this, Sammy. I was like to look forward. I don't look back. You know that me. Yeah, you're a real. Yeah, you're not. not someone to hold a grudge or think, yeah. I don't know why you went there. Do I hold grudges? I don't know. I just feel like you are someone to dwell in the past. But not this year.

Nope. This year we're looking forward. It's a new me. Yeah. Is there a movie that jumps out of you in 2018 that you know is coming down the pipe that you're excited for? Yes, there's a lot. I mean, Greatest Showman has come out. Yeah, the sequel to Greatest Shoman.

I'm excited about Infinity War. Yes. I'm excited about Black Panther. Yes, that's super. That's February. I can't wait. I'm very excited about Fantastic Beasts. The Crimes of Grindal?

Yes. Colan, the Crimes of Grindalbult, yeah. Fantastic Bees, the Crimes of Grimdwell? Big Jude Law fan. So Jude Law is a young Dumbledore. Are you a big Jude Law fan? Yes. Okay.

The holiday? Yeah, of course. That's the first place you go, huh? Yes. God almighty. He's so good in that. We're going to be holding auditions for new sidekicks on happy. No.

I was mad you to ask Jack Black about the holiday. at the Jamonji carpet. Sorry, I didn't get to that. If we had more time. What about Mary Poppins? Oh, my God. I keep forgetting. I know.

Because it's not till like the end of next year. So that feels like that's a year from now. That's a while to go. Yeah, there's a... What about you? I'm trying to think. You know, a couple... Certainly they're the blockbusters.

There's... I'm always curious for an X-Men movie, especially with Jessica Chastain being added to the mix. I'm curious. I'm going to... going into this with curiosity because I have some issues, but I love Tom Hardy, and Tom Hardy being lured into a comic book movie is intriguing. Venom. Woody Harrelson just signed on board. Woody Harrelson's hopping into these blockbusters left and right.

Speaking of kind of franchisey things, Halloween, the Halloween sequel slash reboot, I think it's more of a sequel that David Gordon Green is directing, co-written by Danny McBride, Jamie Lee Curtis is returning. Very curious about that one. coming out. Summer. So that's a big question. Yeah, that's a big question mark. That's another curious. Yes. I could go either way. Look, it's had a troubled, you know, production history. I'm rooting for it. We all are. We all are. And, hey, Mission Impossible. I always love a good Mission Impossible movie. You do. And you were saying you're excited about Ocean's Eight. I'm excited about Ocean's Eight. I think it looks all right.

Yeah, of course. Rihanna's in it. It's going to be good. acting powerhouse that is Rihanna. I think it's going to be great. I'm excited. And early in the year. And I saw, there's, if you guys watched that trailer as closely as I did, you'll see a spoiler. It's not really hard to, it's hard to miss, actually. But okay.

Early in the year, in the early going, we're going to get Black Panther. We're also going to get annihilation, which I'm excited about, the Alex Garland. Exactly, Alex Garland's new film. So that's one to keep an eye out. Is Donald Gleason in it? No. Because I, now I'm his biggest fan, so. Wasn't he amazing?

He's amazing. We saw him on the Star Wars carpet, and I think Sammy was, saw what I've seen for years. I get it. I get it. It's the best. Yeah. The best. I'm only seeing movies he's in next year.

Well, luckily he works a lot, so hopefully you'll see at least two or three movies next year. Anywho. Anywho. Please, guys, remember to review, rate and subscribe to Happy Sank Confused. Make it your resolution, guys. Yeah, that's actually. God damn it, that's a good idea. Jesus!

If you do nothing else this year, guys, do yourself a favor and do us a favor. Good internet karma for you. Exactly, exactly. Review, rate, subscribe. We may even read your review on air. Make you super famous. In the meanwhile,

while you get yourself to the iTunes page, I'm going to give you this lovely conversation with Garrett Headland for free. Totally for free. This is free. Have you been paying? Yeah. I haven't seen the money.

Well, then I don't know. It's right to Garrett Headland. We're going to discuss this offline. Why, look, it's Garrett Headland. I'm buying my Barnum-and-Baley animal crackers. That's fantastic. I got in a fight, apparently, last night, with cracker jacks. What's that?

You got, with a cracker jacks, box? No, cracker. at the Greenwich, they give you like a basket of free candy, and I woke up with crackerjacks all over the place. You're doing it wrong, man. I wasn't. I was searching so hard for the prize. We need to hear

your beautiful voice. Would you mind coming closer to the mic? They need to hear those... I thought you wanted me to sing. I was going to... All right. You can sing too. I'll belt out of tune. We'll do it at the end. I'm going to wear you down. Nice. Nice. We know you've got the chops. I know it from Country Strong Man.

How you been? You just getting to town? Very good, yeah. Got in the last night. Nice. So a bunch I want to catch up with you about, man. There's a lot going on. Mudbound.

How does this go on? You didn't even press anything. It's just, it's recording this all the time? It's just my entire life. It's like a reality show. It's like the mic's sitting here instead of a big brother. It's just like the mic's sitting here instead of a camera. It's just a little mic.

That's right. Look, everything in my life is too valuable to waste. It all has to be recorded. Yeah. Let alone when you walk into the office, This is gold. Yeah. Do you feel the gold?

Yeah. I don't think you do. Yeah, I feel gold. You feel golden? I feel golden. Goldish. Silverish. Yeah.

I was watching, well, we're going to get to Mud Mountain, but I was watching another project of yours on a little device here, my iPhone last night, which is actually the way it's intended to be watched, bizarrely enough. So you were watching on that instead of the iPad? Oh, is that the way to do with the iPad? Yeah, well, that was a fun thing where, you know. So this is Mosaic, just to say it, this is a Steven Soderberg project.

Yeah. Yeah, so you tell me, what were we going to say? No, it's just when we do certain takes sometimes, he'd be like, so that was the iPhone version, give me an iPad version. Does that me go smaller? No, no, just give me something that I can appreciate. I see. On an iPad.

That performance was fine. for an iPhone. Right. But give me something that, God forbid, I have a bigger screen. What am I going to see that horrible performance? No, but it's cool. What did you think about that? I thought it was really cool.

I'm always intrigued by like what Stephen is doing, both with like, oh, we've got some visitors. Come on in. Always intrigued by what Steven Soderberg has going. In terms of the way he approaches his art, which is obviously like he's not afraid to kind of push at the seams of the media. And this is like kind of a bizarre thing. I mean, you tell me, it's almost like a, you can kind of choose your own adventure in a way.

I mean, I watched like the first episode. In a way, I think, I think his, I think that drives him a little nuts to choose your own adventure. Even though that's how it was introduced, but I think the, you know, alternating narratives and stuff like that is a little more appropriate. But it does, look, I went through the whole thing on my cracked iPhone for the first time when I watched it just because I was, eager to see how they were approaching it and what they were doing with it and um the little pop-ups and stuff like that surprised the hell out of me yeah and the the the footage that they couldn't get into um you know either it was it was something that i wouldn't say didn't make the cut but it's something that probably would have worked easier on like a linear narrative so these

little additives are given to you that you can click on and and check out and their amazing little bonuses. Like, how does that sit with you as somebody that I know loves film and loves just like, you know, traditional movies? Like, you know, obviously the way people are consuming media has changed so much in the last five years and it's continuing to evolve. Are you, do you kind of give a shit about sort of how it's being consumed?

I was very excited about this process because we were only given our storylines when we were shooting it. So we didn't know who anybody was to us unless they were in our storyline. Ultimately, I think Steven shot, I mean, we shot

for about four and a half, five weeks October, November, 2015, February, March, 2016. And accumulatively, I think Stephen shot like 400, 50 pages within that time everybody's storylines and if it was your story you were shot in a different

manner and it's because if I was doing like a scene with Devin Retray or Jen you have everybody's point of view so either one's skeptical of you and they shoot it differently and then ones you know and so and then playing with perspective Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. And it was just, it was very interesting. We shot very fast, and Stephen shoots everything himself. And so... He's his own DP, right, essentially?

Yeah. Like literally pulling the camera. No, it's the coolest thing. Not only is he, like, the coolest person, like, I think he's got, like, the greatest, driest sense of humor out of anybody I've ever met. Yeah. And so not only is it hilarious to joke around with them and have a laugh, But if you ask him anything about cinema or pretty much anything in the world, he's got a perspective on it, which is quite genius and inspiring.

So he's a fantastic one to have not only as a director, but as a mentor or just somebody to spend holidays with. It's funny because, like, when I think about, and I look, take a look back on an opportunity like this at the film. you've done, you know, it strikes me the kind of filmmakers that you've gravitated towards or who have gravitated towards you. I mean, you're kind of like not, you're checking off a bunch of cool ones, and they're all different in their own way. Like Angley and Soderberg sounds like, from what I gather, approach things in much different ways, each genius in their own right. Yeah. But, um, Joe Wright. Joe Wright, exactly. Exactly. No, but seriously, I mean, like, I'm curious, like, are you, are you the kind of actor

that can kind of vibe with anybody? Like, do you like every different kind of a director or is there a certain kind of director you gravitate towards? No, no, I appreciate all the creative facets. But also, you know, if Minnesota NICE still holds strong, I mean, coming from there, I get along with everybody. And especially growing up on a farm, like any company you can have in your presence is pretty great because it's very lonely for 14 years.

Um, you know, I, I've, um, I've appreciated being able to work with these directors. And I think because of certain decisions that I have made, like, you know, I wouldn't have worked with Angley had I chosen to do certain other films. I think if there was like an overexposure of something in other senses, like opportunities that I've had, I wouldn't have worked with him. They would have been like, oh, it's the guy from so-and-so. and he would be like... Right. Yeah, no, not in this film. You're talking about like a franchise kind of things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you obviously dabbled with a bit, but like you haven't, you had other opportunities and other things have come and gone. Yeah, and so, and to be able to work with him, I thanked the decision from, you know, from early on not doing those. Yeah. Did that feel like a risk at the time of like saying no to things

that maybe Team Headland was like, dude, 50 shades, Go for it, man. It's always, you know, I never, from the first film that I did, you know, I was offered to do a lot of other under contract at Warner Brothers to, you know, the first contract that I signed for Troy, they were offering, you know, it was a multi-film deal that I'd signed. And everything that they offered was something a little more, you know. Derivative.

We've seen it a thousand times. A little more poppy in a way. And I always try to get out of a lot of these scenarios to do things that I was passionate about. I mean, I wouldn't have done Friday Night Lights had I, you know, stuck to that. And that's a film that I've always been very proud of. Do you feel like you've ever taken a film for the wrong reasons? I mean, I was about to joke and say, I'm like Georgia Rule, but I wanted to work with Gary Marshall.

And so it's always been, you know, about the directors. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you're sitting in that room, and obviously, like, that film has, you know, had sort of rumors around it in multiple ways. But when you're sitting in a room with Gary Marshall and you're looking at all these photos on the walls and he's like, yes, I started their career. And this and that.

sitting in the theater with him I mean it's very hard to not say yes and ultimately it was a wonderful experience to work with him and I've just tried to sort of learn and take what I can from all these

wonderful directors along the way and add that to the most seriously thank you for the segue to someone like Dee Reese who does a hell of a job with muddown which I saw for the second time the other day and it's it's an impressive piece of work I mean, it's both, like, in a number of levels.

I mean, she's certainly working on, like, a bigger scale than she has, probably making the most for whatever budget she had. It's an impressive-looking film. It's an emotional film. It's a tough film to sit through in some ways, but it's rewarding in its own right. I mean, just give me a sense of sort of, like, what, you know, talking about the criteria, like, what is it about her vision? Is it about the material? In this case, what was it that sold you? Oh, man.

When I first read it, the story was wonderful. It was painful, tragic, poetic, and beautiful. I mean, I felt like I could empathize in many different ways with everybody there. At least I understood everybody's character. Like, even when it comes down to Carrie Mulligan's character in it, like, I was just like, oh, man, I've seen people that have gotten, like, sucked into the tradition of, like, the male caller come in. asking for your hand like you know and that's obviously much longer ago but you know in the area that i grew up in there's not a lot of options when it comes to who you're going to you know

get on me for i guess that'll do i mean and you know you deal with that so i felt her character's pain throughout the the whole thing also i grew up on a farm in northern Minnesota is my older brother and my father and my sister was there and in the book there's Ed Davils they had a sister but she wasn't didn't really shine light on that but I

had my older brother and my father on the farm and so I really related to those characters and the situation ultimately I as well left the farm to pursue acting which the character

Jamie and this was, went to Ole Miss, studied theater, hoped to move to Los Angeles and be the next Errol Flynn. When you return to Minnesota, do you feel like you have PTSD like Jamie does coming back home? When I was in Minnesota, I didn't even know who Errol Flynn was. A little bit, you know, it was when I'd go back, I just made like a point to, you know, it was kind of tricky because I wouldn't really talk about where I was. the place I've been and the people I was working with because I don't want to seem like I was

bragging or this or that and you know my brother stayed on the farm and and you know after I'd left worked the farm and so obviously I had like a little bit of guilt of abandoning that situation he worked at the in the town factory and now he's doing very wonderful and is in in Vegas and you know we're both very proud of each other but at that time, I would just go back and just try and be... Go back into the mode that you were. Go back into the mode I was, yeah. The old self.

I mean, did it catch your family off guard? What did they make of your passion for this? It sounds like it manifested pretty early on, even though you weren't exposed to a lot of film, I know. For whatever reason, you got it in your head. I'm still playing catch up. Right. That's why it's funny when people are like, you know,

and obviously because Netflix is distributed. I mean, this film, I've had a lot of questions of, oh, is Netflix this? Are they, is it right for them to, I'm like, man, if I had Netflix growing up, I've... Yeah, you would have been exposed to a whole lot. I got to go to, like, the theater, like, three times before I was 14. Right. And so I wasn't, you know, and I think, you know, who knows, maybe if I would have been a little more exposed to it, maybe I wouldn't have been here.

And I just would have been like, I'm happy with going to work and, like, come. back and watching anything I want. Right. And so, yeah, it was a little different. So why do you think it got into your head then? That, like, if you're not even exposed to this, it's not necessarily what your family was. I think it was what you're not offered or something that you're craving. And especially with when I was first in Phoenix, when I was first, starting with acting coaches.

I mean, I'm not going to lie. A lot of them would come off, like, They would have, you know, people would pay for them to come out to Arizona to do a thing. And obviously, people would pay to go because they heard there was an acting coach like at this certain place. Right. But they would have like an episode, like they were a struggling actor themselves, but did like an episode in this TV show. And this was going to be the coach that told you what to do and how to do it. And so I think it was something that what you weren't offered,

made you, gave you more drive. Like, what you weren't being given made you want to get more. And so it was like, all right, I see this, I understand this, I know what it is, and now I want more. Like, I want bigger and better, like I want a better coach. I want a better teacher in a way. And so by how sort of shabby they all were, it made you want. But starting with the crappy coaches, you were like, I want, I can get the B coach or even an A coach one day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you start with the junior varsity coach and you work your way up. So were you, and famously, you know, Troy is obviously the big break and it happened, at least the lore, is it happened relatively fast after you went to L.A. Is that fair to say that like? Yeah, very. It's actually quite funny. See, I've been flying back and forward. to L.A. for about two years. And I was working in a restaurant as a busser.

I wasn't even old enough to be a server or anything at that point. So, you know, I was cleaning the tables and all that money was going towards tickets to L.A. And I would, but this is after, like, you know, I went to, like, a talent event or something. I gave the monologue from the half point of varsity blues. My mom wanted me to do the monologue from Bull Durham. about the small of a woman's back. And I'm like, I'm 16. I can't, I can't get up and talk about the kisses that last three minutes and the small of a woman's back and the curveball.

Didn't quite have that experience yet. And so I gave the, we got the next 40 minutes for the next 40 years of our lives. And so I got a classic Vanderbyke. So I got a manager from that who had me fly out to L.A. and I got an agent, and I started flying back and forth. And I would literally, I would get an audition. This is before, like, I wouldn't even get scripts. I would just get the five pages that I had to read for.

And I didn't have a printer, so I'd go to Kinko's and print them out. And, you know, really work on these five pages. Fly into Burbank, taxi to the audition, be told that was shit, taxi back. Very efficient. go back to school. Nice. That's got to be good for the ego. And so when I moved to L.A., I'd come out essentially with nobody because at that time,

my reps were, you know, pushing me on, like, soap operas and stuff like that. And it's just a whole, you know, it's quite a long story, and I don't think we have that long time. Well, do you remember the moment that you got Troy, and did it feel like a moment? So I was, I got to L.A. and it was between, so I was given, the first script I was given was Troy. And I went in, I read with the casting director's assistant. You know, they've been trying to read this for a long time and find this role. I was called back to read with the casting director. Then I was called back to meet with Wolfgang. And then I was called back to meet with Brad and Wolfgang.

gang and it was a very funny situation because it was I moved out to LA December 28th 2002 and by on Valentine's Day I was reading with Brad for Troy and by March I was already in London and Malta shooting and like sitting there at Sheperton Studios

watching Peter O'Toole like you know do this crazy scene and his preparation process is very much like that and um did did i mean i'm curious like watching someone like o'toole and being around you know one of the biggest movie stars on the planet brad did it you know did it benefit you from not being kind of like the film geek from the age of five did it feel like you were able to kind of like set that aside um i had like i don't know what it was i had like little

i love the fucking color money i love the color money poster yeah um Little tricks that I did. I think the first time I've ever said it was in this like Vanity Fair thing. And I, you know, I didn't know I was actually going to reveal it. And I didn't know they were actually going to show it. But it was just weird things. Like everybody that was already signed on to it was an A-list actor. And I felt like I needed something to feel a little bigger or something to make me smile a little more.

and I'd had my ex-girlfriend's thong from high school and I wore that and it made me smile so much and like have this like energy that not because it was like a credit card swipe going up the but it was you know where I'm going but if God forbid like my shirt happened to come up on the right side and I saw this pink strap come in over here I knew that we could go on to a bigger conversation and Did Peter Ritchell ever notice? So it was the secret of, no, it wasn't what I was filming. No, it was just for the initial meetings with Brad and stuff. And I remember at that point, we were at Wolfgang Peterson's place and his production company down in Santa Monica. And we went out and we had a smoke and I'm like, man, I think I'm getting this. Like, this is amazing. And Brad looked down and he saw a.

paparazzi in like the backseat of a car that was like 50, 60 yards away and he walked inside he grabbed a bottle of water and he just walked as cool as could be over that car, opened up the door through the bottle of water all over the guy

in his camera and then just walked back and back then he had the long hair and he was just walking back and it was like the coolest man. It was like the scenes when somebody was walking away from an explosion and like his hair is like flown behind and he just did like How's he, walking in slow-mo.

That's amazing. Yeah, I saw it in slow-mo. But it was just, it was like the, you know, it was, I'd always had like this kind of ongoing dream where I was like running across ice. And before I got to the other side, I fell through. And I didn't know what hole, how to find the hole I fell through. So it was always kind of something saying you're getting this far, but then everything crashes. And this is the first time in my life. that that I actually got it and I was doing it.

And I was like, this is going to be not only life altering, but this is the beginning of kind of a new crazy thing. Yeah. Speaking of new crazy things, I mean, we obviously started to get to know each other a bit on Tron, which was another big moment in your career. And I would imagine a big opportunity, a big decision.

I mean, was there any trepidation at that point, given the kind of stuff you've talked about of like tying yourself to a potential franchise? at that time and being identified with a certain kind of a film or did it feel like there was just too much good stuff, Jeff Bridges, etc. It was

tricky because I went and met on it but I was already attached to On the Road and so for that time I'd signed onto On the Road in 2007. I think we did Tron in 2009. Came out 2010, so we're

probably shot at least the year before. Yeah. And so for two years, I'd been basically like driving around the country and hanging with like beat riders up in Frisco, hanging with family members of, you know, Neil Cassidy's son, John Cassidy, and, and other beat writers like Michael McClure over in Berkeley and stuff like that. And then so when Tron came, it was around like a point where I'd spent so much time not working that I couldn't really, you know, pay the rents and it wasn't even that. I was, look, like everybody else.

I was so blown away by what they put out at Comic-Con that year. And I thought it was going to be something so groundbreaking and just visually stunning that man, this could be insane, but I was the least technologically

like apt person, you know, and so, and it was also tricky because most of the things I'd worked on before, you had the ability to improvise. And this was not a world. The nature of it, you just couldn't. You can't, like, improvise or wing things. You're stuck to the dialogue, the, you know, the exposition, the, the verbiage of all of the technical aspects of the film, continuing on from, you know, the first one.

Why would you want to improvise an Adam Horowitz script? I don't understand. No, I can never put words in your book. brother's mouth. I mean, especially, I mean, you know, if I, if I were to have been in lost as well, I'm like, how would I be able to, how would I be able to improvise about the spooky thing in the wood? This is true. This is true. Is your favorite, I mean, is research still one of your favorite parts of the job, just kind of figuring it out like? Yeah, because it, the trial and error of everything sort of, it weeds all that out. And,

And when, you know, if you're just winging it, you're susceptible to trying any idea that somebody suggests. And when you've done the research, you finally have the ability to say no. Right. Because you've already kind of on down those roads and kind of figured out, which one's not going to work for you. You've exercised those paths and been like, is this going to be beneficial or is this going to be something that's going to help the character or the story in any way? And so, I mean, for things like Country Strong, I mean, I never knew how to play before then. And it's also the benefit of the job we do

because now I get to strum every day and have fun, you know, campfire jazz. Sure. But for that, it was six months before shooting. It was right after we finished Tron, actually. You went right on. We wanted it to be a country Western star. The summer, and had the summer, and we did Comic-Con then, and then right after that,

I was, you know, with a guy Neil Cassell, who was, and Ryan Adams, the Cardinals, he was lead guitarist for the Cardinals, and he came by every day, and we would, you know, it was a new song every day, like Hank Williams or something like that, and charting the progress and, you know, sending all that back to the music supervisor, a Randall poster who's, you know, genius and does every Wes Anderson or Scorsese film. And, you know, try sending him a version of your, like, early-on version of singing a damn, like, Hank Williams song is like, all right, let's keep that. That's a start.

Let's try it again. It's a good little start. Is that him playing? No, it's Neil. All right. Well, give me one with him playing. Oh, that was him playing. that's a start

did that go right into inside Lewin Davis did those kind of feed into each other though honestly you're not singing in inside that's also funny like if because I was attached to Akira and had Akira gone

I never would have been able to do inside Lewin Davis goodness for these aborted franchises that's crazy but and also had you know there was something else else going. I think

when the next Tron was supposed to start we were greenlit and ready to go and then I think the studio had like troubles with like, you know, how Tomorrowland did and stuff like that and

I think they asked them to give them like a hundred reasons why they should do this film. And we can't put 30 or 95. But if you know, if that didn't fall through, I never would have been able to work with Soderberg on this and you know and ultimately probably yeah definitely I wouldn't have been able to do mudbound was was your heart in I mean you know I you know I facetiously mentioned 50 shades but there was also you know Captain America and guardians I know

and I'm sure there are a dozen others that don't even know about that never hit the trades was your heart in those or was that kind of just like you know if they asked me to test for these things you don't say no to that yet and at least have to explore no it was Chris Because when it was something like for, you know, I firmly believe that to, look, I didn't grow up reading comic books. And obviously with stuff like Tron and Comic-Con, you get to see the fandom and you get to see how passionate people are about these things. And if your heart's not in it for the right reasons or the reasons that they love it and they support it, then there's always going to be like a conflict. and I just kind of knew that if, like, somebody else out there is a huge fan of this. Like, somebody else will do it justice.

They'll talk about it in the right ways. They'll explain why they're a fan and how long they've been a fan. And I truly believe that if you aren't a fan and you're, like, a little bit unaware of the world, it's just never going to amount. It's not going to translate it. And the fans are going to hate you because, you know, if, but in terms of that, I remember, like, when I met with the director on Captain America was the day, it was the day after my grandfather passed away as I was singing him a song about a grandfather. And he was in a coma, and I sang him the song that we did in Country Strong. It was called Chances Are.

And it's like, well, it's my grandpa. Oz, old Gibson, a girl's known portents, shot with sitting on the bar. Yeah, I used to give damn, I used to try real hard, I'll give in tonight. Chances are, and he passed away, and nurses like Garrett, Garrett, now something's happened to your grandpa, we're going to have to call you back. And I had to go meet with him, the director, right after that, of the first, but I was already prepping for Country Strong, and for on the road I'd been signed on to for a good while, and there was nothing more that I wanted to do in my life and career than on the road.

And so if I would have signed on to that, I wouldn't have been able to do any, you know, the things. And sort of, and it's not like it's a horrible thing. Look, I've just been able to learn so much from all these other ones, explore other territories, and like, you know, I love going to one. watch Captain America. I love watching all the Marvel stuff. Like, fucking, I mean... You can. You can. It's all good.

I love Evans, like, he's the shit. Yeah. And I'm really actually mad him because we're all in a football, a fantasy league. Not going well right now? I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm, you know, three and seven. But he won last year. and I don't think anybody paid him because they said he's fucking Captain America I was gonna say come on you're already Captain America but it's such a funny group though it's you know it's him and

Chris Pratt and Miles Teller and Anthony Mackey and that's an entertaining group you know John Krasinski and Don Cheadle Paul Rudd Oh nice Renner What's the amount of trash talk that goes on in this league

Oh man my WhatsApp is I never had what's at before this and I'm gonna guess Mackie's the worst Mackie's Mackey's pretty good

at trash out but Don Cheadle is actually funny as shit I've never met him personally but I do enjoy that oh no

James Morrison's on it he definitely he chats oh nice he's he's you know he likes to complain about his

his team his very very bad team and he likes to propose a lot of trades. That's amazing. The unlikeliest person I found that's a big fantasy football fan is Daniel Radcliffe. Would you think that Harry Potter is a Brit has suddenly turned into?

He's like a huge fantasy football guy. Yeah. If you have an opening in your league, if Marsen just explodes and storms off. He might explode. He might. So is there anything you talk about on the road, which was clearly a passion project for you and many others?

or anything else like that's been like brewing like that that you've been just trying to whill across the finish line or you've waited for years on? Oh, geez. I don't know. Not really. I mean, that one, you know, that was kind of a lesson. It's very funny to see the difference between

a process that we'd had on something like mudbound. And it's not because of work or passion or lack of passion or an immense amount of passion. It's just, it's funny to see that when, you know, on the road was five years in my life. Right. Signed on in 2007. We filmed in 2010. It came out in 2012.

We went to Cann. Can got their voice in. Sure. It was like, you know, the film is too long. We went to Toronto, Walter cut it down a little bit. But through this whole time, I mean, I was writing. to Walter, any crazy story I had, anything that would be like

Neil Cassidy S, like Dean Moore R.D.S., you know, if I went out the night before, I'd wake up immediately the next morning and I have a coffee and a smoke and sort of before I forget anything, like let me recount this, you know, situation for you

and this happened and this happened. And we knocked all the goddamn paintings off all the goddamn walls throughout my whole goddamn pad. And it was and, you know, and so, It was, but it was also a learning process because I'd always, you know, I was always a big fan of Kerouac and I always consider myself much more the listener and now is to become the talker and the intelligent talker and the extrovert. And I was never really the extrovert in a way like that, not like spitting out facts and knowledge, you know. And so I really had to, over those years, I read everything I could read, watch everything I could watch and just tried to.

kind of become that one that was sort of you know and also you know the one that was spitting out wisdom but I was also driving all across the country like for two years and like it combined all these stories and so then it became like oh we're flying over Arkansas you know you want to know what happened in Arkansas uh two years ago and and so that was a blast but the research can be endless you could have been doing that for 15 years I mean five years I was being like Sir Walter Scott and stuff like this and, you know, things you never imagine you'd read. But, you know, if we're spending five years on that, we shot, we shot for six months when we did shoot. And it was from Montreal to Argentina, Chile, up to New Orleans, over to Arizona, down to Mexico City, Puebla, Tewa Con, up to Calgary.

and then I had to take off and go to Tokyo for how many days to do press for Tron because that was coincided. So I didn't really have a weekend because all the other weekends were doing press and then over in New York to do press and then back up to Montreal and we shot for another month and then finished in San Francisco for the last like four days. And then Walter edited it up and saw that he needed a little breathing room. So he said, would you be willing on doing a cross-country drive with me in the,

Hudson. So we started in Harlem, I mean, well, you know, the Bowery Hotel. We started in Harlem, you know, on rooftops, and then we did a drive all the way up through the Adirondacks, down through Utica, down through all the wonderful

states, crashed in Nashville, over through Memphis, and stuff like that, and we got to have kicks along the way. But it was just a great amount of time to do it. it and then seeing something so powerful being like, oh, the film is too long. Right.

And, you know, they kind of ultimately, you know, sort of fluffed it in a little way. And then for some like Mudbound, which started as a wonderful book that Hillary Jordan wrote, but also a wonderful script, Virgil Williams, wrote, and Dee added some wonderful things. And we shot for five weeks. and it gets to have this impact that it has obviously because of what's going on today and the kind of, you know, there's racial divide and stuff like that. That's very powerful and painful to watch within this. And it has the effect that that has.

Yeah, I mean, it just shows, I mean, obviously so much of it is out of your hands and it's like the film can be what the film is, but it has to hit at the third. right time and the right audience it has to be shown in the right way it's like there are a thousand things that you can't anticipate yeah and mudbound it seems has had this like charmed existence from the time it i guess it debuted at sundance um all the way to where we're at now and and on the road it's just like infamously had this like endless development period even but predating you yeah i mean geez i mean walter had cut up amazing sort of um he did documentary called Finding on the Road,

which I don't think he's really kind of released in any way unless he did on the DVD. But, I mean, it had the tapes of everybody that used to come in for Francis Ford Coppola's cattle calls. Like, you know, it was like Russell Crowe reading for, you know, Bill Burroughs. Like, it was McConaughey reading for Dean. It was fascinating.

You know, Jennifer Love Hewitt and Mary Lou, like all these, like, and this was kind of endless, and also within Coppola, that was kind of, it was a very funny thing because after I'd first read with Walter, and then I think I had to fly to New York and do a reading with some people here. When I got back, they said, hey, Francis Ford called. Poblo wants to meet you about his next project. And I was like, well, all right, well, I mean, I know he's, you know, producing, he stepped aside, and now American Zootrope is producing on the road. I wonder if he's seen anything. And I got in there, and the meeting lasted 10 minutes. It was him asking me who I thought was a better choice for Sal out of two of the guys I'd read with.

and it's like, well, you've got to understand. I've been a fan of both of them for a good while. He's like, yeah, and you just said, sure, he's like, yeah, sure. And so I was like, and, you know, this one really inspired me with his performance in this, and the other one's from my home state, and so we would have like a natural brother thing there. He's like, yeah, and I was like, why are you making me do this? I don't know. And literally the meeting lasted 10 minutes.

And I walked out and I was like, I just fucked this up. Like, I should have read him in writing. I should have sang him a song. And then he called Walter and he was like, you got your guy. Oh, fascinating. But, yeah, none of those guys were chosen. That's bizarre. What do you think he was doing?

What was that about? You just wanted to see. He saw the tapes. I mean, I could say who I was reading with. but it's very funny because, you know, both of them are very active still today. What's, so I didn't even realize Mosaic was shot as far back as it was. He's been kind of like, as you said, there's a lot of content.

Well, they were trying to figure out, you know, there's an algorithm to it. Yeah. They had to try and figure out for the viewing experience, how to sort of, no matter which route you go to almost have the same amount of time of an experience and I thought when it was coming out for the app

I thought you weren't going to be able to go back once he chose a choice Right I was wondering about that too You can still sort of dance in between these and so I thought that every choice was going to be a two-hour experience and you wouldn't be able to back up on that right

this one is you know they had to figure out how to dance in between but also have the storylines make sense, but also the perspectives to be individual and, you know, some perspectives are being very suspicious. Some are trying to be innocent. Some are trying to, you know, hide their guilt. Right. And so, so it's very interesting. It's interesting. You've kind of been in a few of these that are kind of like pushing the form,

whether, you know, last year we were talking about Billy, Bill and Lynn, where, again, you know, it was fascinating to see it. I'm probably one of the very few audiences. They got to see it in that crazy high frame rate. Yeah. And it was bizarre in kind of a very fascinating way. And I'm sure Ang has feelings about it now in terms of like it, I think, I'm curious to see, like, what that turns into if that's going to turn into something in five or ten years or not.

I mean, for that. That, you know, I thought the reason why it was taking a good little while to come out was because I thought that all the theaters were going to readjust and be capable of playing 120 frame rate. By the time it came out, there were still only five in the world that could play it, and one was the editing room. Tang's editing room. But, you know, he set out within it, you know, the book was incredible.

I mean, Ben Fountain, what he did in this book was just wonderful. but he you know everybody knew it was kind of an expensive but not as expensive as it could be experiment to see if this was something that audiences could gravitate towards um I remember when we went in to do ADR and was like I was like how's the film you know I had like four lines or something in ADR It's like it's a quiet film You know It's a quiet film So hopefully people like quiet films

And so we always knew It was a very tricky situation To have a film in 120 frame rate That wasn't an action film That was a very dialogue-driven And sort of You know Military political

Film That wasn't really involving so much the military it was you know a group of guys that were at a half time right you know to walk at a half time walk um yeah it wasn't necessarily even an easy sell at normal frame rate like it's it's a it's not like a home run like oh yeah that's going to make a hundred million dollars and then you add the layer of like experimenting with the very form of it yeah and I think the common response was people that saw it in the 120 because it's kind of it's so clear and so visceral

that when you're sitting there watching these guys having a conversation it got to be a little too real for people and it distract them and they couldn't really understand if they liked it or not. They knew it was new. But that's what, yeah,

so I went basically essentially from Billy Lynn where they're like, this is going to be groundbreaking to Soderberg. Yeah. And where they're like, this is experimental, we'll see if it works. They're experimental guy now. When they need an actor to try some new, hey, put some dots on my face. What do you need?

Oh, bring it on. As we wrap up, is there, are you the kind of guy that has, like, a filmmaker or two that, like, is on the list that, like, you're just intrigued about what it would be like to be a part of their process? Yeah, I'd like to jump in on, you know, Tarantino flick before it's the, the 10th. Right. She's only got two or three left.

Okay. Come on, man. But no, I think it's, you know, I've had a wonderful benefit of being able to work with a lot of wonderful directors and learn from them and how they operate in their craft. And that bleeds into everything that I do from now on. And, you know, I guess we didn't even mention the Collins, but. No, yeah, just in passing. In terms of, like, you know, if you work for them.

it's that's that's an experience unlike any others um and the counter to on the road a much basically a non-verbal performance in that you know when i was given that script it said based off of neil cassidy and i just finished on the road and i was like man i can't so i went i met with them for a singing role and um i think like the soldier at the beginning that kind of you know eats a cereal and takes off. Right. They're like, that's good and all. But you mind reading this?

And it was for the role of Johnny Five. And I was like, all right. All right. They did the thing. And they're like, you got a really good grasp on this. I don't know why. Like, yeah, I've been kind of doing it for a bit. But, um, but no, I've just, I've had a benefit of working with a lot of my heroes and

and learning from them and it just inspires me more in every film that I do I take that with and you know I think when you have some of these lessons from the cones or Walter Sellers or Angley and stuff like that

you start seeking less approval and you go in you do the research, you do the work and at the end of the day you're not always like is that good enough Right. Because they never gave you any reassurance. They're so good either they're yelling at you or they don't say a thing.

The reassurances, you're not fired. When they don't say a thing, it's a very good thing. That's the validation. And so you seek a little less validation. It's probably healthy. Not to constantly... It's not in all aspects. Yeah, exactly.

You know, love, family, friendship, you know, not seeking validation all the time. I mean, and, you know, letting insecurities sort of bleed out into the surface of who you represent yourself or who you, you know, or is, it's wonderful. Am I doing all right? You did great. Garrett, was the podcast good? I need validation from you. No, you were great. How's not?

Can we get a little validation? How did I do, though? No, no. You're great. It's my show. I love what you're wearing, even though it's not a video. We're going to take some photos, don't worry. We need to immortalize this.

No, you know, I'm a fan, and I always love catching up with you. And I always appreciate what you've done with your career in that, like, you know, we talked a lot about this. Like there's like kind of the, quote, unquote, easy road, the playbook to do, and you've done anything but that. And yet it's rewarded you tenfold, I feel like, and the proofs and the pudding of the kind of filmmakers that you're continuing to work with. And, you know, I like the unusual choices. I like the cool choices. I like the filmmakers that you're working with, and you're welcome here anytime. oh thanks man i think we did it i'll stop by every time well not literally every time i mean i have

other people i have to talk to other people too i was joking about that i was just saying that because you're recording i wanted to sound okay you know let's go back to our normal relationship um thanks for stopping by my pleasure Josh and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

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