Happy Sad Confused - Gary Oldman

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

If you came of age in the 90s, the film work of Gary Oldman is probably embedded in your psyche. It certainly is for Josh and in this chat he guides Gary through all of it, JFK, BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA, TRUE ROMANCE, and more! Plus Gary talks about why his latest role in SLOW HORSES is one of his all time favorites. Happy Sad Confused has TWO LIVE events in NYC coming up! On June 8th, Josh will be chatting with Jeff Goldblum! Buy your tickets here! You can also watch the event online on June 9th via tickets here! On June 22nd, Josh will be chatting with Evan Rachel Wood! Buy your tickets here! You can also watch the event LIVE online on June 22nd via tickets here! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Say, Confused, Gary Oldman on a career of iconic roles and his new series, Slow Horses. Hey, guys, Josh Harrow, it's here. Another edition of Happy, Sad Confused coming right at you with a true living legend, someone that has been on the bucket list for a long while.

yes, it's Gary Oldman time on the podcast this week. What an honor, what a pleasure. This man has contributed as much to my cinematic upbringing and love as any human alive, certainly in the actor's sphere. As I said, iconic role after iconic role. His work, the ones that stand out to me are probably the ones that stand out to you guys, too, if you're of the same age. but from Sid and Nancy to Bram Stoker's Dracula,

true romance, the professional, the fifth element, I mean, on and on and on, and it just keeps going all the way in and up to including Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy, his Oscar-winning work in the darkest hour, and now his work in this great new series, Slow Horses, which follows a little bit in the train of Tinker Taylor, in that it is a spy show of sorts,

much different kind of a character, this time around, but a character that I know Gary really loves Jackson Lamb at the center of this series based on a series of books. The show is on Apple TV Plus. You should definitely check it out. As always, Gary is fantastic, and it has a great ensemble around him from Jack Loudon to Chris and Scott Thomas. And the good news is they've already shot more. The second batch of episodes comes out later this year. I think it's been greenlit for two more seasons. So you might as we'll get in on the Gary Oldman's slow horses train right now, guys. Okay, more on Gary in a second. But first, I do want to mention some upcoming events before I go any further. Upcoming events.

Okay. Two live happy, say, confused events in New York. If you're hearing this before the evening of June 8th, there is still time to come on out and see me and Jeff Goldblum. I mean, how lucky am I right now? Another legend. I mean, Jeff Goldblum, guys. So if you're in New York City, And you're hearing this in time coming out tonight, guys, or tomorrow, whenever you're hearing this, June 8th, Wednesday, June 8th, 7.30 p.m. It's in conjunction with the 92nd Streetwide, but it's actually the physical address is at the Spence School. If you buy the tickets, they'll give you all the info, needless to say. But it's going to be an hour-long live, happy-stac-confused podcast with kind of the most entertaining man on the planet. Let's be frank.

It's Jeff Goldblum. You never know what's going to come out. of his mouth, except that it's going to be fantastically entertaining. So, come and join us. There's also a online option. It won't be live. You'll be able to see it the day after online, but you can buy tickets to that as well. So links in the show notes, as always.

Another new event coming up. This has just been announced a couple days ago. You might not know about it yet. Evan Rachel Wood, June 22nd. Again, in conjunction with 92nd Street Y. Very excited about this. Evan is fantastic. she's so talented she can sing she can act she's just the best and she's starring in the new season

of west world and she's back i know that might be confusing wait she's back didn't she yeah she's back um so we'll get into west world but we'll get into everything from 13 across the universe all of it frozen two whatever you guys want to talk about um i will bring up let me know but um those tickets are on sale too again the infos in the show uh show notes June 22nd I believe again, it's at 7.30 p.m. I believe, again, there is a live option that you can watch digitally if you can't be there in person. But I'd love to see you guys there if you're in New York come and support Happy Say and Confused. Evan Rachel Wood, 90 Second Street Y, all good things. Okay, before we get to Gary, one more big topic I want to mention. I literally just walked in

the door back into my New York City apartment after a few days in Los Angeles for the MTV movie and TV awards. Oh, my annual pilgrimage to LA for the insanity that only MTV can do around an award show. I've been doing these for so many years. I realize how lucky I am to still be, you know, the 97-year-old man I'm doing that I am, that they're still employing me to do this. But it was a privilege and a really fun time, as always. So my responsibilities this year, as it often is, was I was the host for the Red Carpet,

pre-show. And so basically, that's like a bunch of, like, what we call hits in the industry, like 30-second or 60-second interviews that run on the channel in a couple hours before the show. And then during the show, I ran backstage. Didn't run. By then, my feet were tired. I walked comfortably backstage and talked to pretty much most of the winners, some of the presenters, and had a great time. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to still digest like, what happened. It was a lot. But great to see a great mix of kind of people that I have talked to a lot over the years, whether it's, let's see, like a Jack Black, who have known forever to see him get comedic genius and then to get to chat with him and have a really fun time talking to him

after the fact. Who else that I even talked to? Oh, well, my recent friends, I mean, I've known Glenn Powell for a bit, but Jay Ellis as well, the two Top Gun Maverick stars, got a chance to catch up with them. They are riding high, as you can imagine, because Top Gun Maverick is the biggest thing on the planet, as it should be. And then, like, a ton of people that I hadn't met that dominated the show. Sydney Sweeney, the young star of Euphoria. Euphoria won four awards in the night, so that was cool to meet her, and she was obviously in a great mood. She's got a lot of cool stuff coming up, too. Got a chance to finally meet Sophia DiMartino. Loki fans out there. Come on, guys. You know her you love her. Sylvie herself.

Loki, I think, took home two awards. She was fantastic. Met her on the carpet. Met her backstage. Met two young gentlemen who are going to, I know, be going on to big things. They already are doing big things. And coincidentally, they both individually told me very kindly that they're big fans of the podcast, which is just awesome. Taylor John Smith is starring in Where the Crawdads Sing.

I've seen the movie. It's great. the book, but I'm sure the book fans are going to be very pleased by this adaptation. He's fantastic in it. Daisy Edgar Jones is in it. David Sir Theran's in it. What more do you want? Anyway, we chatted on the carpet, and he was very sweet. As was Tom Blythe. Tom Blythe, who is in Billy the Kid right now in Epics, but more even pertinent to my interests and maybe yours, he has just been cast in the new Hunger Games prequel, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, as Corey Elena Snow. Yes, opposite our favorite, Rachel Zegler. Again, it's going to be directed by

Francis Lawrence, who is just the gem. So that was fun for me because I've done so, I mean, I did Hunger Games from the beginning to the end and now to like begin it again with a new cast and meet them. It was a really nice full circle moment. We debuted the first teaser trailer for the movie. They haven't shot like a frame of it, I believe. So we're getting in early on that one. so yeah I'm trying to think of who else I ran into I didn't chat with I didn't do an on-camera interview but I caught it very briefly with Chris Evans who was very kind to come by and say hello

waved over to my buddy Lana Condor Aquafina Nora I got a chance to see briefly so yeah it's kind of fun you know it's a nice tradition Riley Keo always love Riley she's been a guest in the podcast so yeah it was a fun fun night J-Lo gave an amazing speech for her kind of Lifetime Achievement Award, the Generation Award. And yes, mission accomplished. I'm back home.

Very happy to be home and busy with a lot of things. But you've heard me yammer enough. Let's get to the main event. Okay. So again, in summary, Gary Oldman, greatest actor alive? I mean, top 10? I mean, he's amazing. Was so sweet in this conversation, was willing to go down.

memory lane, tell some great stories. Some I'd heard, but some I hadn't heard, even indulged some of my curiosity about his Star Wars Association. Have I piqued your interest? We'll get to that at the very end. And yeah, there's a lot here. Look, if you love acting, if you love film the last 30 plus years, you're going to want to hear this conversation. So enjoy it. Hope to see some of you guys here in New York City at the events for Jeff Goldblum and Evan Rachel Wood. And yeah, enjoy chat me and gary oldman it is my great honor to welcome uh mr gary oldman to my little oldman to my little old podcast i must be doing something right if uh one of my heroes is on the pod uh welcome sir thank you for the time today yeah you're welcome uh so congratulations we have a lot

to talk about we're we're going to help spread the good word of this great performance in this great new series slow horses but um since we do have the luxury of time if you'll indulge me first of all i'm I'm talking to you from New York City and as I look back at the filmography there's some there's some roots there in the film career. State of Grace, a film that I've sadly have not seen in many, many years. That was kind of

your inaugural quote unquote Hollywood entryway wasn't it? Yeah. Yes, it was and I was actually I was literally just talking

about it. because my first day on State of Grace I got into the wrong car and I was headed to the set of the freshman a good movie to end up in by the way so I almost worked with Marlon Brando because the driver started to talk about

Marlon Brando and for a minute there I got really excited and I said what I said you know what party's playing and one of those great, you know, Irish teamsters, you know, I don't know, Gary, he's playing something. It's like the guy in a Godfather, you know, it's like, I went, I said, what movie is this?

So I said, no one ever told me that they cast Marlon Brando. And he said, I said, well, I don't know what that is, but this isn't state of grace. And he went, no. So he drove me around the block, dropped me off, and I got into the real car. so I did almost I almost work

with Mylum Brando if only were that easy just show up on a set on the wrong set and they just put you in there yeah but yeah it was great I was I just recently moved to New York so I was living in New York

and shooting in New York and it was you know we've seen New York in the movies and there I was on the streets New York as a sort of gangster you know strutting my stuff

I couldn't believe my luck I just thought holy cow I'm in this I'm in like a gangster movie set in New York City and then Oliver Stone saw me in State of Grace in the Customers Hospital

so it's all connected there it is yeah it's sort of um all started to really kick off but yeah that's that's yeah good one i haven't seen that for a number of years it's funny i was going to do a refresher on it last night because it's same for me i haven't seen it in a long while it's one of it's like one of like i feel like 10 movies that is not on a streaming service of course there's like literally no way to get state of grace right now is it not no i didn't know that yeah so someone someone should uh dig that one out because it's a it's a great one You know, it's funny. When I talked to you and I've had the privilege of having some brief chats with you over the years and look, I grew up a cinephile loving your work. But I will never forget hearing you on a talk show relatively early on in my life and being shocked at the voice that came out versus what I had seen. And realizing I did not know what Gary Oldman spoke like, the real Gary Oldman. And I'm wondering, did you take a certain pride in that? Certainly the first section of your career in particular, it felt like that was the image of Gary Oldman. he was a chameleon and still is to this day that can do anything that can assume any voice

i mean i would use you know for me you look at a character and you think about i've always thought about how they move how they walk do their feet turn out do they turn in um how the shoes are worn out you You know, the heels and the... Literally starting from the bottom up. Yeah, how they kind of move in space. Yeah. What kind of, you know, if it requires an accent,

what sort of, you know, here's the thing that I also think that I think people forget. I'm from, originally from South London. So I'm doing State of Grace and I've got to sort of learn an Irish kind of West Side Irish brogue. It would be the same for Leonardo DiCaprio or Robert Downey Jr. Or, you know, you're born in California and now you're playing a New York gangster from a Westie. you're going to have to do the same work that, you know, and depending on the facility for it and the, how good your ear is, you know, all of that is involved, but you would still have to do the same work. So I never really, I'd never really given it much thought. It was, yeah, you change physically, you sound different. And then when I'm sitting as me, that's what I sound like. You know, I'm really consciously so.

It's the job. That's what the job is, literally. It's not. I think the closest to me in terms of how I speak, is probably Jackson. I give him a sort of tomber, a voice and a certain delivery. there's a little you know you're bloody

joke you know there's a way he speaks but he is you know unlike

the the the George Smilies who come up through Oxbridge Cambridge

at Oxford and they get into the service that way Jackson is more like a character more like Rick Tar

in the series. More working class has come up through a lesser known university or even back in the day a polytechnic, you know, and has come through it, has come in the other way because there's either, there's that, there is still that class thing. Isn't it? I do, I've come full circle. I've got all, I've come from Sid Vicious, all the way around.

This is Drew, and back to something closest to you. And of course, you're mentioning Jackson Lamb, who's the lead in Slow Horses, this new Apple TV Plus series. And I'm curious, like, I hadn't realized until I did some reading up on some past interviews, it seems like you're your own worst critic. You're pretty tough on your own films, generally speaking. I guess my question is, where does Slow Horses rank for you? Can you take some pride in the work of you and the company of actors in this one? Is there a difference?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, my wife has decided wonderfully to archive my life for the kids. And it's in boxes and it's wonderful. She's wonderful.

And she sort of organized it all and finds programs from plays I was in and little magazine articles that I did. And she'll see them on eBay and the thing, order them, file them. And it's all just for, you know, when I'm gone, it's the kids, if they ever want to go into the file and read up and find about, you know, their dad. so it's a very lovely thing she's done and occasionally I'll pick up one of these magazines and it'll be you know the face which was a magazine

in England years ago or the early time out and I'll see an interview I have said such bollocks over the years you know there's one or two jewels in there but

you just go oh my god and then you go i was 23 right you were literally a different human being yep i would you know i was 25 years old and how arrogant to say that and you just go to the arrogance of sort of youth and and so um at 64 um i feel very privilege and very lucky I feel lucky to be working, to be employed. As, and as you know, there are some careers that start to wane or fade out at a certain age. So I feel very, very lucky to have found Jackson Lamb and this material and really to be working with, in such a peasant.

degree of of a show with with these people the crew the two directors thus far have been amazing the crew is is you know returned for the for the yeah and the cast is not only as we can plainly see talented and habit these roles really well but there's not an not bad apple and a bunch. That's really, really lovely gang people. It's joy to come in and work with them and just to be on the set. That to me is success. I do wake up and come in and get in the car and go into work and work with these people

and just think, I have to pinch myself sometimes and I'm sitting there with Jonathan Price or Jack Loudon or having a laugh with the, the slow horses when we're all in a scene together. I just think, man, I've done okay. Well, not to mention, I mean, you look at just the work in the last five years, not the slow horses, but like it must be a source of great pride that when Fincher and Soderberg call you and say for the first time, let's work together. And, like, there are new experiences, new glorious collaborations.

Yeah, I mean, I've known David. I must have known David Fincher now for about 27 years. It was said that he wanted you for Alien 3. Do you remember that? Do you remember him talking to him? I don't know if he met me for Alien 3. To be honest with you, you know what? I think I asked for a lot of money.

back to the youth thing back to what you know the stuff out of your mouth yeah and it's just I can it's alien man come on if I'm not gonna make money on an alien movie

what am I gonna make money on exactly but I don't think he ever we never sort of pulled the trigger on that but I did meet him for that and then I was just you know socially I've known him for a long time

and I just thought because of that I've just kind of crossed him off the list you had your experience in a way yeah I thought well he knows me too well I don't know he's just he's never he's never going to call me and then when that came in

and I went really adventure wow and then to read it I think my God what gift of the part you know this is a story and then the way he was going to do it

with the black and white and the whole yeah the last the last really I think yeah I would always want to work

with Soderberg and and then working with doing you know Tinker Taylor and having that opportunity to play

to play smiling and then you know with Darkest Hour then with Mank the you know and also I was

I like if I look at if I look at one incredible experience forgetting the final the outcome it happens to be very good but if I think of one

all consuming encompassing experience, it would have to be JFK and I feel I worked with Oliver when he was firing and there was no doubt

about that. The product is pretty, the end result is pretty spectacular and the months of just living in Dallas and New Orleans and researching and being on that set was I've got such fun memories of it, you know, and he's a hard task master.

I know it. I know he is. Does not suffer fools that one and likes a little friction. It adds to the mix for him, right? Yeah. Yeah. But the detail. And, you know, to be in a movie, we had Deely Plaza. I think it was closed down for two weeks, and they had redirected the traffic. So we had Dili Plaza with all the cars parked, the period cars and everything else. And we had it sort of for two weeks for us as our stage. And I remember one day we were doing a scene and we were doing weather cover because of the weather. And the weather changed and the sun came out and the shadows were going to be the right shadows. And we packed up what we were doing, moved over to Dili Plaza, like 500 people.

They had to get, you know, to put into clothes. And, you know, because the shadows were right, the sun was at the right point where it's going to be just like the subruder. I'm just, you know, to work on something like that, with that much care and attention to detail, is why you want to do the damn thing in the first place. I will say that I think I was about 14 when I first saw JFK, and it's probably the movie that changed how I viewed movies in the most profound way. I remember walking out of that theater, the mix of the film stock, the Bob Richards in cinematography, John William's score, the audacity of like, who has like the leading man deliver

a 20-minute monologue to camera in the third. It was just, it was just, it was Oliver, as you say, at the height of his powers, using it all for good. And it stands like, even separating the truth or fiction of any of it, it's like, as fiction, it would be the greatest thriller and Alan Pakula movie ever made. Yeah. And as, and as more of the. these files are being declassified, we're seeing, actually, we weren't, we, we weren't so crazy. Wonders of time, wait long enough, and the crazy people turn out to be prescient. Another film that I know was a little bit more of a mixed experience for you, but again, really

profoundly affected me was your collaboration with Coppola, who I know you hold in very high esteem on Bram Stoker's Dracula and I know you said some very kind things about him in the years since but I'm just curious at that time was there a key source of like the of the conflict between you two like were you seeing different movies or what was the issue at it at its core for why you guys weren't getting along production remember I don't even know if I can remember I think what happened was he needed a hit And he needed to bring a movie in on time. And we got on famously at the beginning.

And I looked to him as, I looked to him as... I wanted to work with the man that had made of the conversation and Apocalypse Now on the Godfather. And maybe we didn't have the material to, for that, for that to hold up. But I would challenge, you know, again, that sort of youth I was quite opinionated and

I wanted I wanted I just I wanted that guy and and we used to butt heads with things and I was going through my own personal

saying which wasn't helping he was going through his thing and and we you know I can't you know I have

the deepest respect for him and arguably think he's one of the greatest American directors not just an American director. But director period, I think his work is just mind-blown. And when I've spoken to students, as I've occasionally done over the years, people sort of come to me and they say, you know, how do I get into the business or what should I do? You know, I would always say to them, there's a long list of cultural movies, but I would always say, what, Godfather,

for production design, for cinematography, for storytelling, for direction, for acting, for costume, for, it's a masterclass in every aspect. And so we, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a shame. And then, of course, when I later, when I directed and did nilip by mouth and I wanted the clip from Apocalypse now, he, you know, which would have cost me an arm and a leg to use. You know, he just said, let Gary have whatever he wants. Oh, there you go. Water under the bridge. And then even at the end of the production, when they were in the cutting room. he sent me all the cassettes of the dailies

and a note saying look through these and if there's any takes that you really like. Oh, wow. I mean, we, yeah, there was friction and we were, he was at a place and I was at a place. Right. And it just, I think we just occasionally rubbed each other up the wrong way. I know I know I'm not the only one to say this to you

from your perspective I get it it's a totally different experience it worked for me it still works for me it works for many and look I like a big swing of a film and yes it's a bit big and operatic and even silly in some ways but somehow a consummate actor like you can make I have crossed oceans of time to find you work out of the mouth out of your mouth it works many other actors that would not work yeah And I remember talking about JFK, I remember sitting in the trailer and the script arrived and I was just in the lunch hour of something doing JFK and I flipped through the script.

And I remember I saw, I've crossed oceans of time to find you and I thought, God, who wouldn't want to say that? You know, that's worth doing the movies. Just say that. Sell it. And I heard the voice immediately. I couldn't do the voice. But I could hear the sound. And then I went out and we went to Napa and auditioned.

And that was it. That always sounds like the best time of a Coppola movie is those like two weeks in Napa just kind of working it out. Yeah. Yeah. That improvisation, he was in the book of an evening and we all have big, big, big meal, and much of that wine. Right. In that same time frame, I know a character you do have more, not necessarily the character, but a film that you appreciate is true romance, your collaboration with Tony Scott.

And Drexel is certainly a character that is not easily forgotten. Is it true that essentially you were sold on Tony Scott saying to you, So you're playing a white guy who thinks he's black and you're a killer pimp? And you were basically like, I'm in. Yeah, I met it. And he said, I hadn't read the script. And he said, look, you know, I could tell you the story and do all of that. He said, but, you know, it's kind of like a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's part road movie.

It's part this. It's kind of an adult fairy tale. It's these things and this character. He's, yeah, he's white guy thinks he's black, you know, who wants to be black and he's a pim. And I said, I can work with that. I can do that. Yeah, it sounds great, okay. I'm in. And then got the script and started working on the character

and occasionally, you know, I wrote and said to him, can I have dreadlocks? I got, and he went, yeah, yeah, why not? And then I went and had a wig made. I went to my dentist that had some teeth. I just basically turned up on the day and he was there with his cigar, you know, and he looked at me.

Went, that's the wig, that's the this, that's the eyes, you have the teeth, okay, great. Yeah, all right, you sit there, you sit there, you do that, do that. you were in you burn from the first bar wow there's no getting in to it once it's it's truly what i think obviously of course a tarantino script like i think what he excels at is these characters even the ones that are in one or two scenes that just make you ask what's their deal what's the rest of their day like what's the like drexel asks invites that like i want to know the rest of his

life the rest of my life. Yeah, I mean, Drexel, I mean, there are so many good performances in it. Chris Penn, Tommy Seismore, those cops, Gandalfine, James Gandalfield, Patricia Arquette, Christian, and then, of course, Brad Pitt. Amazing. The greatest stoner performance ever, yeah. Oh, my God. You know, so, and it, I don't, and it, you know what, Tarantino script with that cast,

and it made, you know, two nickels. Right. That's right. I could never bully. I was shot. And with Tony Scott's direction, I know, it doesn't make any sense. I don't know. It came out, I can't in L.A.

And I don't know. It played for about a week, and that was it. And then it became a cult. yeah DVD you know it became um a sort of thing and if you had said to me there's some people in my life there's some people if if you said to me you know so and so they've got bad news so you know took their own life there are some people I've known along the way where I go oh that's terrible right yeah kind of see it not with Tony

he was life itself it was like an electric child the man he uh I think yeah I spoke to him on his last film it was unstoppable and even that film was teaming with it was a pure Tony Scott film just like they all the rest were

there was no diminishment at all but yeah it was well you know Tony Tony Tony he's in there he's got the ideas he's dead you know it it was uh it it was truly shocking to hear that of all the people i never saw that come you know yeah and who knows what was going on sure sure sure um i know there's another a bit of a disconnect between a role and how it was perceived by an audience but again count me as a leon professional fan and standsfield is a i mean like you know what you're doing in that because like i know the famous story of the the everyone's scream was basically to fuck around with people at the time but like beyond even that moment like when when when luke

says i'm going to put the camera on top of you when you're biting into a pill and i don't know what's in the script but like it looks like you're having an orgasm as you're basically taking your drug you know you're in a certain kind of you're in a loony tunes cartoon less than a uh you know in yeah again it's like a big it's like a cartoon for grown-ups yeah yeah and because of the focal length of the camera that was above me the the the the focus was so shallow that they had a like a rod, a camera stand rod down my back and when I brought my head back and the back of my neck my head touched the rod I was in focus and he said you've got to lean back and that's when I go back really thing and I can feel

the little rod touching the back of my neck I knew that I was sharp in the in the frame yeah so much for leaving room for spontaneity like getting the yeah I mean it's all it's all smokes and smoke in nerves

it's crazy all comes out of his head and then and then I did you know I did provide us and stuff all that stuff on the mantel piece and there was a word the word bingo

and I just did it one day for him you know bingo yeah that's that's that's yeah could do that you know even the yelling at the old woman

with that dangling cigarette gets me every time it's just it works no it's it's crazy you know what it's actually I'm occasionally the way I'll push to do an impression

and I used to do a De Niro friend and Chris Walker and different people do you know he would shoot the scene he would roll film on it and he'd go we do one more and you do as De Niro just for his

blooper reel or whatever that you yeah amazing has that ever surfaced does that exist somewhere in the Basan Vault? I never saw it, but he would say just come in and play Stansfield as De Niro Yeah, it was

only in New York You know, we had, when we blew that building up In the script, it says there's an explosion and he writes radical total

that was the description of the explosion and it was very powerful that explosion at the end that comes out of that building I mean it shook the block I mean it was anyway

we had there was like I don't know what they I don't know what you call it I know there's a name for it it's not the mezzanine but it's like the road divider You know, you've been like an island running down the middle of the road. So you had uptown traffic and downtown traffic. Right, a partition in the middle, sure.

Yep. And while we were shooting opposite, there was a bank that was robbed. And there was a whole crowd of people all watching the filming and all the swap team and all the stuff. And then the bank robbery happened. And they all turned to watch the bank robbery. And then that happened and then we'll pull it and then they will turn back to start. Now the real show. Now we want to back this, yeah.

That's all my God. Only the second most interesting thing happening on the block, the bank robbery. I'm proud of my crazy city. You alluded to this. I mean, this is around the period where you kind of sort some stuff out in your personal life. I'm curious, were you worried at all? Like, you hear this talk of some people that have, you know, issues, personal issues, like that, that gives them the edge. That makes them who they are. Was there any concern on you, like, when you got clean that you would be a different actor? That, like, no, I needed that to be what I was. You think you need it. You convince yourself. It's an excuse. It's a, yeah.

Yeah. It's, I could see why people think that. You know, people that think I can't be funny unless I'm high or I can't be this or can't be that. But I think it's all just, it's, it's really, it's delusional. Yeah. It's because you can, you can give yourself an excuse. I mean, you go, oh my God, it's raining. Let's have a drink. Oh, the sun's out.

Oh, that's a drink. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah, we went to that funeral. and, yeah, oh, you know, we're during, you know, oh, we're going on holidays, it doesn't matter. Yeah. If everything is an excuse to, to, yeah,

and I just got to the point where it was coming. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I could function. That's, you know, that's, that's just, that's the scary. Right. That's almost the most dangerous part, but you can get away with it. You can, you can, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Up to a point. Yes. Yeah. Up to a point. And it really just got. I just got to that stage where I just thought, I'm done.

I'm done with this. I can't do this. You know, I feel that there were times that were wasted, obviously. And I'm grateful that my kids didn't ever see me. Drunk, you know, and I wasn't a drug, you know, you know, I know I'd read stories about I was on heroin at one point or I was cocaine or, you know, you read this, I've just read an article that says, you know, my wife who's Jewish, Germanic, is born in Canada and I'm a Canadian actor. She's 64 years old. I've just read this. the magazine and we went I didn't know you were Canadian honey I mean you know so you read like you read these stories sometimes you go how the hell heroin where did that come from maybe someone sort of Sidnancy I don't conflated it all yeah he also spent time as a police commissioner

apparently no that's that's a movie too yeah yeah so you you know I wasn't uh pills and all of that wasn't my wasn't my thing you know vodka was my thing right which is enough. And I got to a point where I really had to just save my life. We're all happy that you came out the other side of it. Yeah, yeah. What was like 30, I say, seven and so. Yeah, I wish I'd done it 10 years earlier, but there we are.

Yeah. Your story is your story, isn't it? Indeed. the time is flying by I want to hit on a couple things we barely into the 90s sir your filmography is too great but I do want to mention um I've had so many conversations on this podcast and in my career with actors that you know without blowing smoke up your ass who truly revere you like I know Dan Radcliffe pretty well and he never takes you never he never he never ceases to talk about what a game changer it was to to meet you and how influential you've been in

his life but it's it's Tom Hardy it's Shia who I know it's it's they and I'm sure they profess this to you yourself. I'm curious, like, what do you, is there a go-to of, like, what you say to actors when they come to you? I mean, is it about learning from your successes, learning from your mistakes? What do you generally say to these folks that come to you on set and say, give me the secret, Gary, what do I do?

Well, you can't have lazy brain. You've got to be. you know you can acquire technique and it is important it is important yes it's great when someone is just raw talent but there's a discipline and the control to it's well we've got to be able to be in control of it and like like anything so um it my if a young actor said what do i say learn the lines to get there early that that right that's number one number one number one this line know the lines be there on time yeah yeah yeah and you know to really you know do the work you got to want to do it

you've got to want to do it more than your life's breath because you've got so much rejection and you've got a tough skin and you've got to be really you it's what my my part of producing partners we call it testing positive for the theatre disease.

Yeah. You know, once you've got it, you're tested positive for it. You're in, yep. And it's in you. And so you've got to really, I think, work hard. And you can learn technique, but a drama school or an acting coachism, I think you can find you intuition

but you have to have it and that is and that's something you can't I don't think you can give people you know I think it's it's intuition um

we were talking about this earlier. Take Kristen Scott Thomas, for instance, who plays tavernor in slow horses. There's a scene in the episode where she has where she has

one of the slow horses in the basement and she wants to get information from them and she's saying, you know, and there's one line that she has where she says to him, of course, you know, people get i've come back to m5 after working at slow house slow house and he sort of looks moving on and she goes none now i could think of there's lots of ways you could play none none

right you know how many people have come back none delivers the line. There's a slight pause. She sits back a bit and she goes, man, like does this face and delivers the, that is... It's all there in one word.

That isn't a script direction. Yep. That's... You know, you're rolling the camera on that. You go... So there's... You know, there's, I think there's a, this, I'm talking about a natural gift for it that I don't think you can, that you can't teach. But, but you, but like I say, you've got to really just do the work.

Just, just you've got to have a commitment to it. And I would, I would expect that from a bricklayer to an electrician. you know there's a level of a standard that you have to that you sort of have to meet and plus the fact you have to remember that when you go to a movie when you go to a movie house and the lights go down and the lights come up on the screen you are then in the arena with all the great if you're a young filmmaker and you've made your first movie and those lights go dark

and the light on the screen comes up you are then in the arena was Kirasawa Pasolini Trufo, Oliver Stone France Chaplin Spielberg on the malls, yeah there you are you made it in a way

so you better bring it all And you will be judged. Yeah. And so if you're lazy, don't be lazy. And know your lines and getting there on time. I'm going to end with this, if you'll indulge the geeky side of my brain, because as many of the kind of, quote, unquote, franchise and stuff, you've been a part of the Batman films, et cetera, Potter.

Over the years, I remember this, that you've been, there was talk that you might be in Star Wars in two different junctures. I remember there was talk way back when in episode two, okay, you're shaking your head, and then there was talk a few years ago on J.J. Abrams, Star Wars. Was there any truth to that, Gary? Do you have any recollection of, because I just want to selfishly see my favorite actor in my favorite franchise, basically? Well, I did a voice for Star Wars.

I did the, I can't remember. remember it was someone general grievous well that was the thing i don't but they your voice isn't actually in the film no no no what happened was it was something to do with union and non-union stuff that's what i heard they were using non-sag performers and you i was not going to be the poster boy for it right you know had you recorded your stuff for it had you already done it he directed the whole thing well you got the experience i guess you got george lucas directing you yeah yeah he was terrific no regrets about that

and then other stuff is rumors okay fair enough I read someone asked me the other day they said oh I hear you're going to be something or other and I went I've never even heard of that you know and you do like in these

you'll read that you know I'm going to be in a marvel movie or right you know, your name might even just come up at a meeting, you know. I mean, I've heard people say, I know that when they first, when my name came up for, when they would, when Eric Felner said, Gary Oldman, Winston Churchill.

You'll never get it. You'll never get it. Oh, no, that was it was, it was smiling. Oh, smile. Oh, okay. And then it turned out to be basically your favorite role. Yeah, I think it was Tom Ass. And that was it, Eric says, you'll never get it.

I'm never getting. So people throw your name in the hat. Nice to be wanted, I guess, or not to be forgotten. Yeah, it's better to be talked about than not talked about, I suppose. Yeah, but a lot of that stuff is all rumor. No, I know. We'll see what you said today that'll end up in a Wikipedia entry that you'll have to deny in the years to come. I apologize.

Yeah, and it will be mangled and miscoted. Exactly. Exactly. I can't tell you what a privilege has been, sir. As you can tell, you know, your work is meant a lot to me throughout my, my, my cinephile weighs the last 40 plus years. So keep up the great work with slow horses. I can't wait to see the second batch of episodes,

which have already been filmed as I understand it. It's coming a little bit later. It's actually season one is 12 episodes. So it's first book, and we've got the second book, which is Dead Lions, which will drop, I guess, maybe September.

I don't know. I would think. But I'm not sure. No date for it. Well, it'll give us an excuse to cover the aughts. We barely got through the 90s, so maybe we'll catch up then. Okay. Thank you, Gary, for the time again.

Appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, lovely talk. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. My summer movies, Hello Fall.

I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lantamos' Bagonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine,

Spike Lee and Denzel Timmy. up again plus Daniel DeLuess's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about too. Tron Aries looks exceptional plus Mortal Kombat too. And Edgar writes the running man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.