Happy Sad Confused - Gary Oldman, Vol. II

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

Gary Oldman lives up to his legend status in this wide-ranging career chat taped at the 92nd Street Y. From TRUE ROMANCE and BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA to HARRY POTTER and BATMAN, all the way up to SLOW HORSES, this is a must watch and listen for all who love Gary. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Visit BetterHelp.com/HSC today to get 10% off your first month HelloFresh -- Go to HelloFresh.com/hscfree and use code hscfree for FREE breakfast for life DraftKings -- Download the DraftKings Casino app NOW and sign up with promo code HappySad UPCOMING EVENTS January 8th -- Dan Levy -- tickets here! January 10th -- Josh Hutcherson -- tickets here! January 11th -- Annette Bening -- tickets here! January 17th -- Clive Owen -- tickets here! February 6th -- Emily Blunt -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and watched myself in something and said, my God, I'm amazing. Right? That would be a very sad day because you want, to make the next thing right drive to

you know yes and you can't you can't it's so subjective it's such a personal thing that you're that you're looking at that not other people are not seeing

prepare your ears humans happy sad confused begins now I'm Josh Horowitz and today on happy sad confused we have the legend that is Mr. Gary Oldman in the house, guys.

Are you ready for this? Thank you all so much for coming out here in New York City. Thanks folks for watching around the world. You're listening or watching on the podcast, and you're a slow horses fan. You're in for a treat. If you are new to slow horses, you're going to learn what all the buzz is about. This show is fantastic. It has now just entered its third season on Apple TV Plus.

There's more on the way. It is fantastic. Mr. Oldman, of course, kills it in this role, as does the amazing ensemble. I want to gush for a second before I bring out Mr. Gary Oldman because I don't want to make it awkward to his face when he comes out here. He's one of the greatest actors ever. He is, for over three decades, he has been an actor's actor. Every actor I talked to on the podcast for years, who is your guy?

Gary Oldman, always. Let me rattle off a few of the roles that he has done over his career. Only one man can be Sid Vicious, Dracula, Sirius Black, George Smiley, Lee Harvey Oswald, Winston Churchill, and now Jackson Lamb. Please give a warm, happy, say, a confused welcome to Gary Oldman, everybody. I could hear you, but you're still here, thankfully. Yeah. Gary, thank you so much for your time tonight.

Thank you, yeah. Congratulations on this role. The last time you were at the 92nd Street, Why, we should say, was for darkest hours. So we like to think we're something of a good luck charm for Mr. Gary Oldman. That would work. Yeah. Yeah. Do you believe in luck as an actor?

Do you believe? Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, there's a great deal of luck involved. And I have had really more than my fair share of it. There's commitment and ambition and talent and all of that. But there's an enormous amount of luck involved to it too. Whatever, whatever that is, fight, fortune, I don't know, but yeah.

And how has that manifested? I mean, can you pinpoint a time or two where luck sent you down one path as opposed to another? Was it a choice of a role, saying no or yes to a role, going to a school? Yeah, all of them, all of that. Yeah. I, you know, I had spent the first few years in my career, in the theater, and then I was offered Sid Vicious in the thing, which I didn't want to do. I wasn't really into the punk movement. I, you know, in my youth, you know, I arrogantly thought, you know, the hell wants to, who wants to

film about Sid Vicious and Nancy, you know, it's, so I kind of dismissed it and then it sort of came back and anyway, I ended up doing Sid and it's just by pure luck that the next role that followed was Joe Alton, the playwright, you know, so people are sort of like, you know you've got this and you've got this and that was not engineered most of it has been it seems to be my process that I turn something down initially and then if it's to be it will wash back up you've got to drive the price up too let's be real come on man um for villains yeah there's a certain rate for a Gary Oldman villain versus yeah there's yeah yeah which I don't we're which I sort of consciously turn that ship around.

We'll get to that. There was that period where you, you and your compatriot Alan Rickman basically owned villains in the 90s. No, I was typecast. It was like, you know, we need a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah.

To be fair, you did it very, very well. Little over the top. No, I disagree. Okay, let's talk about this character, this role. Was this one that you initially turned down like some of these other ones was this no no no what's the difference I have been a fan of long form I mean long form as in going back to Brideshead revisited I Claudius upstairs and downstairs you know when I was

when I was a kid you know so I've always I've always enjoyed being able to follow characters, you know, rather than in a movie where you've got a window at two hours and whatever it is, you know. And then this sort of incredible sort of seismic shift that has happened with television. At one time there was a sort of snobbery, you know, one was a film actor, and then you looked down on the people who did television, you know, was sort of, you know, that doesn't exist anymore. And I personally think that some of the best acting, some of the best writing, the best cinematography,

the best set design is on your TV in these shows. And I've, so I would watch them and occasionally watch with envy and thinking, you know, I'd really love to do something other than have that one shot to develop a character or play a character over a long, over an extended period of time. And it fell from the sky. The character and the series.

The series, the genre, which I'm connected to through Tinker. Which was one of them. You're also your favorite characters I understand. Yeah. Right. And so it came in and it was everything I was looking for because I'm often asked, what is, who's Jackson Lamb and, you know, why do you enjoy playing it? And I think I had said to my manager, Doug, who's here somewhere, I said, I'd love to do something.

I'd love to be in a show, a series that's well written, where I use, really kind of my own accent, no accents. I don't want any prosthetic makeup. I want to stay in... You've done your time. Yeah. I don't want costume changes. I just want to be in the same clothes. Yeah. It's a narrow, you know... In a sort of a spy genre, a thriller, am I five, am I six? Wait, this was all what you, this is a miracle, Gary. This was all your prerequisites. Right?

And this is what we were kind of, this was my Christmas list. I said, so find me that one. And you've got a week. Anyway, this came in and he called me and he said, you are not going to believe what has just sort of

it appears. and I read the scripts I did not know the books but they were based on these books and I read the script and read the first book and I said this writing is just it's just fabulous and that you know he turns a genre that we're all very familiar with yeah but he sort of it's a narcic he sort of turns it plays with our expectations a bit right yeah and he and he gives you characters that are relatable, that are spies, but we recognize them as human beings. You know, you have the first series of Louisa. We see her at the laundrette doing a washing. I mean, Miss Money, Penny would never do that.

So I just thought it was just wonderful stuff, but you were talking about luck. out, yeah, how about that? No, truly. You just start playing the lotto, yeah. You know, at 60, whatever I was when it started, you know. You know, careers often can often whine. Right. You know, they peak and then, so I feel really lucky and privileged to be in,

to be, to be in work or so. you know, to be doing the series and to be earning a living at 65 with a bunch of people who are the nicest bunch of people that you could ever hope to meet. The crew, the cast, everybody has come back

every time makeup, hair, designers, costume, cameraman, the operator, the sound, you know, they... That speaks volumes, yeah. And they keep coming back to the show. So, yeah, you open with luck. Yeah, I feel very blessed and very lucky to be doing it.

What stage direction do you dread seeing most on the page? Is there one, you're like, oh my God, this again? Well, I've had my share of being covered in, you know, blood. Right. Yeah. You know what that's gonna entail. You know how sticky that's gonna be. Yeah, especially when you know that the scene is going to be shot over a week.

Right, yeah, yeah. Actually, the most, the most difficult thing I ever had to do, oddly enough, was in one of the, I can't remember which one, but in one of the Harry Potter's, I had to lie by that lake, there was like a frozen lake, and I'm sort of dead and the soul is leaving my body, and then, you know, it appears. They didn't make you do that, did they, like, make your soul leave your body? They don't teach you that at Rada.

Although I've had my soul suck. I mean, you've been an actor for decades. Of course it's happened. Oh, my God, yeah. There have been moments. There have been some movies, I tell you. Some directors that want your soul. I'm sorry, I interrupted your wonderful story.

No, I don't even know it. Is that wonderful? But it was just me laying down. But Harry Potter, they would shoot. It took forever. Yeah. It was slow. And we'd be on the scene for a week.

You know what I mean? We normally could do, we could shoot this in two days. Anyway, I was on that, what they did was they built this lake in the side of the studio, and they they cooled it down and they froze this lake and I had to just lie there for a week day in day out doing nothing oh doing nothing but then you'd have to get you know I've got like could someone I'm getting a I think my kidneys are really getting they're getting a bit cold and then they put the little hot water bottle under you and you'd lie there

they're like that, and then day three you go, my neck is killing me in the position, and they'd put a little pillow underneath it. Yeah, I just think I had to do was lying next to a frozen lake. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Only four more Harry Potter movies to make.

Yeah, with a few still to go. Yeah. They killed me off too early. I'm still upset about that. And we were all taking bets, you know. It's Hagrid. And I was there going, no, no, no, no, it's going to be, maybe it's wrong, you know, and then you kind of open the script and you go, it's me.

I'm out of here. Did you, did you have a, I mentioned Alan Rickman, I'm curious, like, did you have a relationship with him? Like, were you friends prior to that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I loved him. Yeah, apparently, I saw you on the, like, the reunion special. You discovered for the first time that he was the only one that knew how the books ended.

He got the inside dope from JK. He did. He had a very, yeah, he had a sort of big, yeah, he had a special relationship going in with a, yeah. I mean, you have so many roles, which we're going to get the tip of the iceberg tonight, but like is that, that's one that will reverberate for generations. That one must come up every day, every other day. Does it just more than other roles you think come into your life? Yeah, it's the most frequently, if they ask me to sign a picture.

Yeah. then that's the one that comes up the most, you know. I think my work is mediocre in it, but Gary. No, I do. I don't have words. Why? Why do you say this? I don't know.

Maybe if I had read the books like Alan. No. If I had got the head of the curvet, I would have played. If I had known what's coming, I honestly think I would have played it differently. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's just my own.

My wife says, you know, don't be ridiculous, but she often does. But this is not unique to your career. Like, time and again, I've touched out before. You talk about this for so many roles. It's crazy to me. No, a ton of it. I'd put it all on a fire and burn it and do it all again. Gary.

How would you do Dracula different? now. Dracula, I have seen probably 25 times in my life. I'm obsessed with it, yet I know you don't, you don't love your, you don't love that film. I'm not crazy about it. No, I tell you what it is. I tell you what it is. There's probably actors here. Yeah, tonight, any actors in the height? Any actors in the heights? But it's like anything, I think that if you, if I sat and watched myself in something, and said, my God, I'm amazing. Right?

That would be a very sad guy. Sure. Because you want to make the next thing better. Drive to, you know. Yes. And you can't, you can't, it's so subjective. It's such a personal thing that you're, that you're looking at, that not other people are not seeing.

But that's, it's, you know, it, I don't, it's not, it's not to. disrespect someone who says to me, oh, I really love you in that movie. And I'm thinking, you know, I'm terrible in that movie. What are they talking about? It's not, it's not that. Sure. It's their watch, they're seeing something else. Right. They're almost saying, seeing a more objective piece of art than you are. Yeah. You're taking it. Absolutely. And then you also have that thing of you, you think you're maybe communicating something in a scene and then you see it. then you go, oh, was I wasn't quite doing that, or I thought I was doing something different to that, you know, so it's nitpicking your own work, which is, I, I, it's healthy as long as it

doesn't, it can't debilitate you, you know what to mean, I mean, I'm not, I don't, I'm not self-flagellating yourself every night, you're not, yeah, yeah, no, and old work is old work right that's except in nights like this when I make you relive it's yeah like you know it but it is but it is sort of it would be like I don't know sitting here with a with a painter or saying you know what about your your early work in the 60s and you know and they go oh yeah that was my blue phrase I'm done with that now you know I'm on to the next thing so I'm kind of my head is, I love the show. I like all the people. I like playing the character.

The riding, I think, is very good. And I am very, very happy to be doing it for as long as Apple. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and in case you missed them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure.

Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Are you looking for a movie review show where the critic is at the top of his or her game, meticulously breaking down and explaining exactly why a film does or does not work? Well, good luck with the search, because we're having fun here on Adam does movies. Each and every week, I hit the big blockbusters, I cover the streamers, and I even toss in some movie news for fun. Check out the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, and hopefully we can do movies together. Hot.

Write the checks, you know, and keep us on the air. I mean, it has a great critical response. following, but it is ultimately up to Apple, whether they're going to do all the eight books or whether they're going to cut us off. So we want to keep you acting. So this audience is going to spread the word. We want, we want Gary Oldman. And I do pop up.

I mean, you know, I just, I've recently just, I did a week's work on, do you know, Palo Sorrentino? Beautiful. The Italian filmmaker, yeah. So I did a little cameo for him. over the summer. And I popped up for a day in Oppenheimer. So I'm not, we're not getting rid of you anytime soon. You're sticking around. Good. Good. Good. I'm still around. And I said this to you once before, like, I remember vividly seeing you on like a late night talk show at some point after I'd seen you in like 10 different roles and being like, oh my God, that's his real voice. Like I had heard like 10 different Gary Oldman's until I saw the guy sitting here.

Are those voices, are those characters all still in you? Like is Churchill's voice there? Is Drexel still there? Like, if you were doing the one man Gary Oldman review. No, if I was doing the one man Gary Oldman review, I was doing the one man Gary Oldman review, I would then have to revise. Yeah. I mean, the the

sketch of it is there. Right. But it's a, you know, I mean, I could, you know, probably you know, you know what I mean, but I'm not doing it every day and focusing on it, right, in that sense. So I could do an approximation of it.

Right. But they all, they all, my latest, has anyone seen the Vikings? The series, TV series, the Vikings. Yeah, my new obsession at the moment is flokey. I like flocking. I'm just a simple boat builder. I like floaky at the moment.

That's tickling you. Yeah, it's, if I've got, if I watch a show that's with Irish, Irish-based show, then for a couple of days, I'm why. I'm Irish. Right. Yeah. So that's a mix of being an amazing natural mimic.

And also a impish kind of sense of humor that has not left you since being a child probably. Absolutely. If it's Scottish, I'm Scots. When I go and, you know, pause it, go and go make a cup of tea, you know, and then I'm doing a squirt's actually. You know what I mean? And then I can be attached. Italian or Russian or I amuse myself. I love it.

It just happens. Yeah. I heard you, you are an actor that actually likes a lot of direction from a direct. Like you want to be directed. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to be left to your own devices. You're like, you're there to collaborate and hear from them.

What do you want, like, what do you, what do you? Well, it depends on who they are. Right, they've got the good. great if not yeah I mean it yeah because they have an overview of the the piece right and they have insight into it that you're not they're coming at it from a different sort of position in a way they're looking they're looking at 30,000 feet the whole thing and you're very into the the character but A good directing is knowing when not to say something.

You know, you have directors who want to sort of justify their, or feel insecure that they want to justify their positions, so they have to, and that's not good. You know, so it depends. I mean, I'll give you an example of a really fantastic piece of direction. piece of direction. I did seven years,

but kind of really about seven years with Chris Nolan and the three Batman's. And Chris is not a big note given. He does leave you alone. He expects you to do your work.

Come in. And you do your work. I'm going to do my work. And, you know, so he does. he does tend to leave you alone. He is not real one. He's not one for small talk. You know, you get there and you're there to work.

And he's very charming. But I did a scene once in the back man, and he came up to me, and it was probably one of two notes he ever gave me in seven years. And he came up to me, and he said, let's do that one more time. there's more at stake and I went

yep got it all right let's do one more yeah I know what you mean yeah that's a fantastic piece of direction yeah you know I don't need to know the ins and outs of the whole universe I just need that

nudge and then you go oh he just wants me to just turn it up I just need to adjust the volume on it, not vocally, but the energy or the dynamic of it he wants, you know. And I always, I use that as an example because that is just a fantastic, a really fantastic piece of direction. Well, because you know your tools, they know the feeling they're trying to get out of the scene. Yeah.

And that is, but yeah, I like, I like, I like, I like. like being directed. Yeah. Well, it's funny. Like, I mean, your recent collaboration with Chris Nolan is, I think, a day on Oppenheimer. I often have talked to actors and filmmakers, like, the hardest thing to do is to jump into a film, like, one or two days, and just seamlessly blend in. Yeah, with Chris, I didn't know exactly where they were in the shooting of it. Right. Killingham Murphy is one of the

most, this is the sweetest guy on earth. He is such a lovely man. And I knew I'd cross paths with him from the Batman. And Chris said, you want to come in for a day and do this? And I said, sure. I went, great, you know. And I had the scene with

just Killiam. It was terrific but I did not know where it was in shooting or anything like that. I maybe if I had known just the sheer scale of it and I may have been a little more intimidated I don't but you know but it was just a man talking to another man in a room right you know so it was a very sort of intimate interior. And then you see where it falls in the thing. But that again was, Chris just said, he trusted me to put it together. So speaking of Nolan, actually, I had a few kind of like setting the record straight questions for you, some rumored roles that might have come

or gone in your career. One is that Chris Nolan initially wanted you to play Liam Neeson's role in Batman Begins, Raza Ghoul. Do you remember that? Did he initially ask you to play that role instead of Jim Gordon? I got a feeling it was scarecrow. Oh, okay. Another baddie. You're good with baddies. Yeah, no, yeah.

And that was about the time when I sort of was thinking, I've really had enough of this. Right. And I think it was died. My manager said, I suggest it's Chris. what about Jim Gould and to his credit

Chris hmm oh that's interesting and we met and that's how it sort of yeah came about

but I think it might be scare crime I'm not sure a couple others that supposedly you turn down Edward Scissorhands and Morpheus in the Matrix do you recall either of those coming up

the Lawrence Fishburn role I don't remember Morpheus I have a story that Edward's just in hands I wasn't offered the role but at the time my agent was like

it's this interesting filmmaker and what have you so I'm one for not I don't want to waste someone's time I don't want to go in and meet them if and then if they like me

and then they... No false hope. You don't want to... Yeah, and then they offer me apart. I think it's rude to then go I've spent two hours with you and no, I don't want to do your film. You know what I mean? Sure. And I hate wasting people's... Time is the most valuable thing. It is the most valuable thing that someone can give you is their time.

and I hate wasting it. So I didn't go in and meet Tim Burton because I didn't get the script. I read it and thought there's a castle on a hill this guy's got scissors.

There's an Avon lady. You know, I don't get it. It's, you know. Anyway, I then cut to a year or whatever later. I think go and see the movie and the camera tracks over all those multicolored houses and it ends on this castle in the background and I went yeah I get it so one piece of bad luck in an

otherwise walkie career one one yeah and there've been a few that have got away but there's quite a few actually but I can't really it I can't talk about them because it's not really fair on the people that ended up doing it. It's fair. You know. I got it. Yeah. You've said Quentin Tarantino's words very famously, but you've never been directed by...

Never. No, he never asked me to be in a film. This is crazy to me. So there was like a cast list that circulated last year from Pulp Fiction way back when that you were on. Did you ever know about it at the time? No. He had you in mind.

Well, he's only making one more film. I know. It's time. Quentin, come on. Yeah. one last film, he says, and I ain't in it. But Drexel remains one of your favorite roles, doesn't it? Oh, my heavens. It was...

What a swing. I mean, that's like, if that goes down, you're going down in flames. Yeah. I never even read the script. Tony Scott met me, and God bless his soul. And he was there in his pink shorts, his big cigar and his baseball cap. And he said, look, I'm no good at telling the story and the plot and the thing of the film. He said, look, the character, he's white, but because of the culture and everything else, he's white, but thinks he's black. And he's a pimp. And I said, I'll do it. Sounded interesting.

Like, I could practice that voice in the mirror and amused myself for a few weeks. That could be fun. Yeah, and then I was doing a film. at the time Romeo's bleeding and I was in New York on location and I heard this voice outside the trailer and I thought that's that's a good Drexel voice and it was this young black kid on the street with some friends and I approached him and said would you would you come into the trailer And read a bit of text for me and record your voice.

And so they all came in. And he looked at the text and he said, oh, I would never say that. That don't fly. No, I would say this. And so I changed some of the words, you know, to this kid. And, um, and, uh, presented that the timing and rest of his history. Yeah.

And it wasn't, you know, it's that, it was that way back. You remember that whole, it was like, Mark, what they called it, they called him Marky Mark. And, you know. Big Bunky Bunch fan a long time, yeah. And that, you know, those people that, well, they still do, but very much embrace the culture. Yeah. You know, so it was that kind of guy, but I had a ball on it. I was on it for three days.

Yeah. I'm curious, like, did the, you know, the lifestyle of an actor is kind of a crazy one, right? It's an itinerant lifestyle. It's an unpredictable lifestyle. Yeah. And you've been very candid in talking about, like, your troubles as a young man and the stuff you went through. Did that contribute at all to that?

Like, did the craziness of being an actor, the itinerant? the unpredictable nature not mesh with the stuff that was in you that you were dealing with, or do you see those as totally independent? No, it's all part of the... Yeah. It's who you are. You know, I'm not playing a violin or a piano. Right.

It's me. You know, a version of me. And it's, you know, it's having... a certain facility really you know if I'm crying in a role

or weeping or you know that's that's Gary crying but through the prism of Dracula or you know it's not a thing over here

it's it's in you it's part of of you. And that takes a toll. That can, that can, yeah, I think it's many years, I was asked this question many, many, many years ago. And it was, it's, you going to work and you shake up all of these emotions, you know, or memories or whatever, how, whatever you use to do it. You you know, everybody's got their own different type of technique, but, you know, you find your thing

and you're shaking out like a snowshaker. And you're shaking it all out all day. And then at the end of the day, it's still inside the glass. It's not therapy, you know, and then you're supposed to sort of go home, I don't know, and have a beer and put your feet up. you know and I found it if you want to be good at something you have to really

dedicate yourself to it to the exclusion of everything else and I have found that there have been relationships and all sorts of things that have gone by the way you know we're very selfish you have to be really selfish to be if you imagine being a concert pianist the amount and then and then and someone has to live with that right you know or yeah they clearly found a balance at some oh I've now 50s however old I was when I met Giselle is here my wife is, I've found it late, but I'm lucky, I think, because I've found it. And some don't, you know.

So I'm at a place in my life now, in that sense. And I'm with someone who understands who is creative. She's creative in her own right, but has been around creative people for a long time. it gets me. You know, it's when I start working on a role, I'm told she tells me this. I've not

really sort of sat down and analyzed it, but I become remote. I'm there, but I'm not really there. I sleep a lot. I procrastinate. I do

all these things. It's just me on a normal Tuesday, Gary. I don't know what you're saying. And that might be for a lot of people. You go, that's, that's every day for me. But I do, now, you have to then be with someone who, if you are focusing on your work or you're closing off or shutting down because you have to focus,

they have to understand it's not personal. this is just the process and I still want you and it's going to be back. Yeah, and then the process works its way out and, and, you know, so it's, it's, yeah, and all of that, all, that whole life, my, the journey is my journey, you know, and it all feeds into the work. The journey took you finally to a long overdue Oscar a few years back for Darkest Hour and another exceptional performance and I rewatched your Oscar speech which is one of my favorites and it's a really sweet moment. Is it?

Yeah. You should check it out. At the end of the speech, I'll refresh your memory, I'm sure you remember this. You thanked your then 98 year old mom. Yeah. You said, put the kettle on, I'm bringing Oscar. And it is bittersweet. is bittersweet. I mean, she passed pretty soon thereafter.

She waited. Do you think that's true? She was nearly, nearly 99, almost 99 when she, she went brilliantly. We were all having fun with my kids at the dinner table, and she had a massive stroke, and never really, and that was it, kind of, you know what I mean? she was in really not there but she was laughing one minute and sort of gone the next but she would always say to me oh you're gonna win an Oscar one day you know darling I know you're gonna an Oscar and I would I've never really played the game you know I thought you've got kind of play the game a bit of you to get you know you don't just get one you know you have to sing for your supper and I thought

well that's very unlikely it's unlikely and and so I just say yeah you never know one day mum you know yeah yeah you never know and I think she held on

I really do and I won the Oscar she died did she see it you brought it home yeah and then she let go Crazy. Her mission accomplished. Yeah.

Yeah. That's amazing. A few questions from the audience. How much time do you spend in makeup wardrobe to get the Jackson Lamb look? This seems like... Oh, it's really good because it's half an hour. They put... broken

veins on my nose and give me some blotches a bit of yellowing under the eyes you know because the liver's giving it out and lots of grease and muck in the hair

and the clothes you know that's the same outfit I you know it's I change you know I have a Mac and I have coat, you know, that's it. I do have to say, yeah.

If it's summer, I have the Mac and if it's winter, I have the coat, yeah. Yeah, I think the first, all you need to know is in the first episode of the new season, I think you're mistaken for a homeless man in your introduction, literally. Yeah, I'd look like a, someone in the park. Yeah. From Michael, how much of it all does George Smiley inform Jackson Lamb? well they're both the smartest man in the room they're both incredibly um i think i've had it i described smiling a bit like him with an owl you know he was just very still and he could just move the head

and take in everything he could see everything you know right um jackson's very much a different motor more damaged way more damage than smile than smile than smiley but yet they're similar and they've got I think a great moral compass you know for all his flatulence and and which is all part of the act right in a way he gives you the impression that he doesn't care but probably cares more than most he's in and he's out he's burnt by it but can't quite let you go of it you know and all of that is is his distraction so he's very you know he's very very smart and very clever and you can underestimate him I think that's that's that's

his trick right we it's not obviously it's people it's I mean we have season four in the can yeah and in fact we owe I think we owe a couple of days on it that we have to pick up because of the strike and but Yeah, season four is going to be a dynamite. Yeah. And I am very, very much underestimated by someone in that. They take my appearance and all of that and they go, I know who you are and they have no idea who I am.

So that plays a little in the next round when it comes along. But that's all I can say. You know how to tease an audience. Goodbye summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast. the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases.

We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Ares looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes the running man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.

Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. Well, big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth shaking. Heartbeat, sound effect, big. Mitch is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap.

We're coming back. We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist, we were born to be. be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks.

Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. We call us. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the daily podcast from ABC News.

And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. Arder wants to know your favorite actor, alive or dead. Do you have a go-to favorite actor? I was talking about him early, in fact. Gene Hackman. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Gene Hackman. I mean, there are many, many, many wonderful actors and actresses and for all, and we like them for all different reasons. You know, they can't. You couldn't just have a dance. of Jean Hackman in in in I wouldn't mind but you know in everything yes you know of course you need but I think George C Scott is up there I have developed a kind of new

appreciation of Lawrence Savivier oh interesting on screen because often it said he was one of the great dynamite on stage right but yeah yeah I've got a new I don't know

I've just got a new appreciation of him but I would I would put Hackman up there I think that

the conversation yeah is a masterpiece is from it's from it's It's perfect, it's perfect, and his performance in it is, you know, extraordinarily. And then the younger generation, I've got to say that I think Kate Winsnet's the best we got.

Sorry, I missed it. Kate Winslow. Of course. Yes, yes. I think she's magnificent, yeah. Yeah. could do anything and I always believe and well that's the key I was going to say about hackman never a false note no like it's just you're it's it's it's he's not reading a

script it's and I could rattle off there were many Albert Finney sure you know you start to go through the list and then you um of course genera and um I mean it does it get any better than Al Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon, you know, Merrill in Sothe's Choice, I mean, come on. You know, you can then go down the list, you know, Apocalypse Now. Duval and. Yeah, but I think for me, Hackman was, he's my number, he's my, he's my number one. We're going to end with the happy second fuse, the time is blown by, Gary. The happy second fuse profoundly random questionnaire.

Do you collect anything? Is there anything... I collect cameras. Are you a photographer? Well, I like to think I am. Yeah, in my spare time, you know, this affords me some of that, because I do a show and then I have a break.

But I, yeah, I take me. Yeah, I take pictures. I do wet plate, 90th century work plate photography and kind of regular. Ever display it publicly? I have done in the past. I used to carry a white-lux camera around with me, and I had an exhibition of Tinker Taylor,

soldier spy. And I also exhibited some book of Eli. pictures that I've taken, but it's a hobby, you know, and I, and I just like the, I like the process, if it's film, it's a dark room, chemicals, you know, um, yeah, everything from, with, uh, Jeff Bridges on the contender, doesn't he do the wide locks on every film? Yeah, he, he, he's got a couple of books come out and, um, and I'd always been, um, I've, always liked a camera and always liked photography. So my wife and I collect, collect photography.

And my sort of side of it is, it's 19th century cameras, mostly. It's not modern cameras, you're not gonna mean, but that's a nice, it's, it, Keeps me off the street. Keeps you out of trouble. You never asked me about directing, did you? You're directing, Neil by mouth, of course. Tell me about...

Well, no, I just wondered, because my DP's in here tonight. Is that right? Ron Fortunato. If you guys have never seen Gary's only one directing effort, why is that, Gary? Did I open up Pandora? You mentioned it, to be fair. Yeah, but you ran with it. I thought we were in sync, we were not.

No, I, not for want of trying. Yeah, that's tough to get a project going. Have you? You know, and so they've been, over the years, there's quite a few scripts. And there's one in particular that I'd like to do, but it's 11 years now since I first wrote it. and I had a piece that was not like Neil By-Mouth,

but I think with the same honesty and the same intensity. But you come up against these, you have to go, obviously, I used a lot of my own money when I made Neil By-Mouth, and I won't ever. I was going to say that's the cardinal rule. Yeah, it's the Cardinal rule. Don't ever do it, but the thing was, is that I didn't collect Ferraris and things,

and I had a little bit of money saved, you know, and I bought myself a moving picture, basically. I mean, you know what I mean. Yeah. And it was never intended to ever go beyond. I said, look, you know, if no one likes this, it stands and falls with me. If it's no good, it's no good,

if people like it, they like it, if they don't, and I'm happy to have it and get it out every five years to show a couple of friends. You know what I mean? And so I went in with that frame of mind. It's very liberating. Right. You don't have...

You're only pleasing yourself. You're not trying to... I don't have... Yeah. I don't have Harvey Weinstein at the end of it. It wants to recut it. Yeah. And rewrite a scene and then reshoot and all the rest of it.

Here it is. Yeah. This is it. And... He used to do that a lot, by the way. Oh, I know. Harvey Sizzarhands. That was his nickname.

Absolute pig. What a pig of the man. So, yeah, you know, I try to get other things made, but it's, it's. It's a very, it's a very tough going. You've got to go to the people with money and, and then they make casting suggestions, right? That are absolutely ludicrous.

Even if they're, you know, there was once, I was up for a role once, and the other two people up for the role was Leonardo DiCaprio and Arison Ford. We were the three in the running. What? Ridiculous. Who got it?

I don't think it was ever made. And you know what? If that's the sort of casting that they were going, then it's a good job it was never made. You know what I mean? Because they were idiots. But that's the sort of thing you're always dealing with. You know, there's a lot of people,

there could be a lot of people at the time. table and it really can be too many cooks in the kitchen what we have with the show here I think all the producers get on with one another there's no bickering and we are we go through extensive conversations and meetings so that going in we're all on the same page same director for each season that's a huge part yeah that was that was a big thing at first they were very resistant against it it's too tiring and I think I think Doug said you know when they did um is it Raymond Burr Perry Mason yeah they did 32 of them a season or something you know he said what are you talking about you know you can do six and and a director

can shoot or six you know what I mean it's so we have that that vision and consistency in the direction, one real vision of it. And everybody's on the same page and we go in and we all kind of know what we're making and that is unusual where you've got so many, you can have a situation where you've got so many differing of opinions, that someone thinks it's this, someone thinks it's that.

Then it becomes nothing, it's a mash of, yeah a hundred ideas yeah we know what show we're making so we're over time so I'm gonna ask you one last thing you told me the best note one of the best notes you got what's the worst note a director has ever given you the worst note yeah directors have given or it could be hypothetical doesn't need to be a literal what would the worst note be to get for you what's unhelpful Well, I've had notes in the theatre like, hmm, it isn't jelling.

You know, you've got any ideas how to fix that? You know what I mean? I've had directors scream at me, and there have been some really, not in the... Yeah, once in the films, once in the movie career. I can make a guess or two, but we're not going to do it go there. What's your first guess?

Oliver Stone. Yeah. Who would be your second? That was my only one, actually. Okay. That jumps out. Is there another? Wait, I need to go back to the filmography.

Hold, give me a second. No, leave it. We'll leave it there, Oliver Stone. Yeah, he could be a bit noisy. Except... But that's what surprised me before you, because you were saying, like, that's one of your favorite roles, too, as it should be, I would think. Yeah. And I would think Oliver is all up in your business.

Like, he's just, like, not... He's a lot. And... I tell you what, though, here's this thing that would surprise you. It was one of the great experiences. There wasn't a great deal on the page. and he gave me plane tickets

per diem and said go to New Orleans go to Dallas and find out who Oswald was and I met people who said they knew

maybe they didn't but you know I met people in New Orleans that were they knew Oswald they knew Jack Ruby you know and it was becoming

it was sort of being sent out into the world like an investigator and he gave me a great deal of freedom in that respect. And then they did the most remarkable thing. We shot at the police station and Jack Ruby, you know, he shoots me in the movie, absolutely where Oswood was shot and I'm actually handcuffed to the real detective. come on

that was handcuffed to him yeah yeah and what they did they had refurbished the police

station and I can't believe this that they allowed the production to do it so you go down into where the

ambulance was you know where they go into the back entrance of it down they took a jackhammer they

cangered the entire wall away to reveal the original doorway of the police station where Oswald came out so they took this whole building away

to reveal the building behind it and did it all up late as it was and I'm then walking out and Jack Ruby comes out and shoots me and there's that very very famous picture of Oswald kind of going

with his mouth open as he gets hit with the bullet and for some reason I don't know I couldn't get this Oliver decided that I just was not doing this moment correct

you know I'm like you you're going and it's like car no it's well he's getting shot So I was, oh, and they, you know, and I'm trying to sort of do this, to do this moment.

And he got really in my face with that. Gary, you're trying to sabotage my movie? That's the sort of direction. You're sabotaging my movie. You're doing it deliberately, do it better. Just make it do it better. And that was the one day, that was the one day where I, And I was getting upset because I wanted to give him.

Sure. I wanted to, you want to give a director what they want. Yeah. You really do. They're to service their vision. You have to service their vision and you come in and you've got ideas, but ultimately you are like a waiter or a, you know what I mean. You come in and you want to serve their vision exactly.

And I was getting more and more upset. And it was like, what am I doing wrong? I'm going, ooh! I don't know how many different ways. And we have three variations on, ugh, to me, yeah. But the cop, who I was attached to, Jim, his name was, can't think of his second name, Jim. And he was handcuffed to Oswald, and the bullet went, I think,

through his liver and his spleen, and the reason why Jim didn't get killed, because he was on the other side of him, is that it came out and was inside, just the bullet was hanging from a little piece of skin on the other side of his body. And he said

if it had gone, if it had hit a different organ or missed an organ, it would have come through and hit me too. But yeah, good gig. Good gig, Jeff, case. Yeah, I'd

say. I did my best to suppress my inner fanboy. I don't think I did a good job tonight, Gary. You did very well. Thank you, sir. You always do very well. You're a legend, sir. I mean, you have influenced a generation, generations of actors and fans of film, and you continue to do so. Slow Horses on Apple TV Plus. It's now in season three, season four, already in the can, and it sounds like you're in for as long as they're in, right? As long as they're in. As long as they're As long as Apple's in, I'm in. Excellent. That is the best news of the night.

Congratulations on the show. Everybody spread the good word, and please give one more round of applause for Gary. Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show. on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't

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