Happy Sad Confused - Gary Oldman, Vol. III

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

One of the all time greats, Gary Oldman, returns for another masterclass discussion of acting, Hogwarts houses, and TIPTOES. Plus SLOW HORSES, DRACULA, and so much more! #happysadconfused #joshhorowitz #garyoldman #slowhorses Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Loyalty, hard work, patience. Does that describe you? Loyalty. Hard work, patience, fairness, dedication? Yeah. That would, yeah. Gary Oldman is a Hufflepuff, everybody. It's official.

I'm a huffin'fuff. What is it? Are you in a hufflepuff? I'm in the bloody movies. the bloody movies and I can't... I'm a huff-and-puff. You're a hufflepuff. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Hey guys, it's Josh, and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today we have one of the all-time greats. Mr. Gary Oldman is back on the podcast where he belongs, and it is an epic night in Los Angeles to share with all of you. Thanks, as always, for tuning in guys, for watching, for listening, watching for listening however you're enjoying this episode of Happy, Sad Confused. Before we get to the main event, which is a really, really cool one, Gary Oldman, we don't have any upcoming events yet to announce.

Stuff is always on the horizon. More to come, watch this space. And more importantly, check out our Patreon, because that's where we put up all our announcements first, and we have discount codes and merch and all that kind of fun stuff. Patreon.com slash Happy Sad Confused as your home for all things Happy, Saddenfews. We just put out a big shipment, a autographed posters for some of our wonderful patrons. So if you're interested in getting that kind of stuff and just more of what I do over here, check it out right now.

Okay, so we're just going to get right to it. The main event this week is Gary Oldman taped live in Los Angeles at the beautiful fine arts theater in Beverly Hills. You guys have heard me talking about wanting to go back to L.A. for a while we did an event. Over a year ago, Tom Hiddleston at the same theater, sold it out then, and we really wrestled with who to get, when to get them, had to all line up, a thousand different things need to line up in the right way. And somehow this one came together,

and I'm so, so happy, relieved, thrilled, all the emotions that this one turned out as well as it did. I don't want to over-hype this, but this is really one of the best episodes I think we've had of Happy Set Confused. And that's saying a lot because the last episode with Gary Oldman, I think was one of our all-time best. And this one certainly sits on the shelf with that one. He is, of course, a legend for a thousand different reasons,

whether you love him from true romance, the Batman films, Harry Potter films, the professional, his Oscar-winning turn in The Darkest Hour. The man means so much to film fans, to actors, and now to see him in this latest stage of his career doing so many cool things. So he has just come off the stage. we talk about this, his returns of theater after 37 years.

He had not been on a stage and returned back in the UK to do a play of Beckett's. He talks a lot about that in this one. But he's also, of course, going strong and slow horses, which is now entering its fifth season. It actually announced its fifth season's premiere date the day we taped this in Los Angeles. It is September 24th, so mark your calendars. He earned an Emmy nomination for the role of Jackson Lamb last year. Hopefully, he'll get one again this year. Maybe he'll win.

He's, I mean, he's the best. He truly is the best. And to hear him tell these stories in such a humble, fun way was just a delight. His family was there. His children were there. His wife was there. His manager and an agent, that meant, honestly, a great deal to me that it felt like the oldman gang all came out to start.

support and just wanted to hear him tell stories in this way. So, yeah, I said I didn't want to overhype it. Maybe I'm overhyping it, but you're not going to be disappointed. So many great stories in this. Yeah, from, we hit upon a lot of aspects of his career. Plus, it's a very, very funny conversation. There are a ton of laughs in this. Stay tuned for the Harry Potter portion of this is epic. That's all I'm going to say. I'm just going to say that now. The tiptoes portion of this, if you know, you know, tiptoes, folks. I don't think Gary Oldman's ever talked about tiptoes. Certainly not to this extent.

A happy, say, confused exclusive. Yeah, so thank you to everyone that came out in Los Angeles. We sold it out again 400 strong at the Fine Arts Theater. We will be back in Los Angeles doing more. We're already talking about other events. And hopefully, bring happy, say, confused to other cities around the country and perhaps the world. We'll see.

All right, here we go. Main event, I'm taking you now to the stage of the Fine Arts Theater in Beverly Hills with me and Gary Oldman. Enjoy. Hi, everybody. How's it going? Hi.

Welcome. Hello, Los Angeles. It's been too long. My name's Josh Horowitz. Welcome to a live taping of Happy Say I Confused, My Beloved podcast. Thank you so much for being here, guys. This is so many. I do a lot of these live events in New York, but very rarely do we get to do this in LA.

About a year ago, we sold out this theater for the great Tom Hiddleston, and now we are back, and you guys have sold it out once again. Give yourself some applause. I am with 400 Gary Oldman Obsessives, just like myself, so welcome. This is going to be such a fun night. You guys just saw an amazing, just one minute of a remarkable career. We all love and adore what Gary Oldman has contributed to screens big and small. I don't need to list his amazing accomplishments.

He's won every award under the sun and well deservedly so. You know, from Dracula, Stan's Field, Winston Churchill, and in recent years adding to the Canon in slow horses, everybody, Jackson Lamb. Come on. And we're also talking to him on a very special day. special day. It's just been announced. September 24th. Slowed Horses is coming back for a new season, guys. Good time. And if that weren't enough, Mr. Oldman has just returned to the stage after decades. He just wrapped up an amazing run in York, and so there's a lot to talk about, needles to say. Are you ready for this? All right, guys. Thank you again for coming out.

Please give it up for the one and only, the legend, Mr. Gary, Oldman, everybody. That's nice. Lovely crowd. Gary, thanks so much for doing this again. You're welcome. Nice to see you again. It's good to see you. We've had a couple conversations. The beauty of Gary Oldman, though, is

We could have 10 more of these, and we're just going to scratch the surface of your amazing career. You've given us a great gift, sir. Can we start with the play? You just came off stage in York. Yeah, yeah. When was the last time you did theatre work, Gary Oldman? 37 years ago. Yeah.

So what's, had you been noodling on this for a while? Had you been thinking about getting back on stage? Well, I've often flirted with the idea of returning to the stage. constantly I read plays I think about the theatre and that's sort of where I started and where I came from so I did eight nine ten years of theatre and I was I was very fortunate in the beginning and I would do a film and a play and a film and a play So I did Sid and Nancy, and then I did a play, which did maybe a couple of plays.

Then I did prick up your ears, and then I came back and did a play. And so it would work like that. So I was never very far away from the theatre. And then my career started to take off, and I just got kidnapped. But the films, and then 10 years. years go by and then 15 and then 20 years and then someone will say when did you last do a play and then you think and you go my god it's 25 years 30 years and then you get to a point where you think i'm never going to be able to do it you know it's it's been it's been too long

Anyway, I decided to do this play, went and had a ball. I loved it. We should mention this was just you on stage, this is Beckett, this is directed it, you went back to York where you started. Yeah, so this is... And you did it right, you did it in a very interesting special way. The usual suspects, you know, when you get a return to the stage and then you think, well, it's New York or it's a lot.

or it's the West End and I thought it would be a nice thing to really give back to the place where I started. So in 1979 I went to York Theatre Royal and made my professional public debut on that stage. And so I thought it would be a nice thing to go back and return to where it all began. And it's a lot of people that sort of talk about promoting provisional theatre. But they don't. Right. The actual way to do it is to bring it to... It's to take it there, yeah.

So it was lovely for... It was nice for the theatre and the community in York. So it was very special. And a lot of my family who are here tonight, they came over and saw it. Yeah. And I got the taste. I'll do more now.

Please. Yeah, I got the flavor. You got a New Yorker here, so I'd love to see you come by. Any time, open invitation, whatever you want. All right. Lovely. Have you ever experienced anything like stage? right back in the day or to this day on a set is there anything analogous to that for you

yeah i had stage fright on um uh uh tinker taylor soldier spy yeah once you started once you got on set it's no once i got on set i was okay it was the it was the build-up to it i've never really experienced it i mean you know in york after 37 years um i was actually chomping at the bit to do it and and and you i don't know whether it's nerves or adrenaline or whatever it's excitement right there's a difference between being paralyzed with fear and and which stage fright is really in a sense and there's a and that There's a difference between that and just being energized and excited to get out there. And which was it on take or tell or soldier spy that you experienced?

It was bone crushing. I wouldn't want to experience it again. It was, I think what had happened. happened with it is that most of the time, most of the roles I've played, I've gone to sort of kicking and screaming and, oh, I can't do that, I'll never be able to do that, or they should cast someone else, or, you know, I could think I'm another actor who could play that role, and why are they thinking of me, and all of these, sort of, the usual sort of insecurities and things that one sort of goes through.

and I guess in a way you make an obstacle you have to put an obstacle up because I've got to cause some drama you know I've got to make it even I've got to make it more challenge even more difficult for myself so a lot of the roles I've played have been roles that I've turned down and then have come back so my initial my process is turning something down I think that's how I I think that's That's how I work. And then your process is regretting it afterwards and saying, I didn't do a good enough job. Yeah, that's the other thing as well.

Yeah. So you can't win. So the only happy times in the middle, basically. But I think what happened with Tika Taylor, I really did feel that this time, I get found out. always waiting for the tap on the shoulder you know you're actually thanks for trying you're back home now yeah you're you're a fraud you know and Alec Guinness had had such a huge success with it and was too many and probably still is the definitive smiling and that got the ghost of Guinness really

it got into me it got inside my head and I thought I am really going to be found out and I'm gonna I'm gonna fail miserably at this and what have I done you know I've said yes to this thing and now I'm up against this this legendary performance that I will invariably and doubtedly be compared to you know so you're really sort of out on the wire with it and it got to me um to the point where i couldn't eat i couldn't sleep i was in cold sweat it was really quite it quite terrifying and then my producing partner over there dug actually came to the set with me on the first day and i was so uptight that i said to him for the first shot the very first scene

which was actually with Tom Hardead. Pretty good place to start. Yeah. And I said to Doug, don't come to the set. Let me go down on my own. No one needs to see this. No, please, Doug.

And actually, and I got on the set, and I looked around and I thought, oh, I know where I am. What's all the fuss about? And it evaporated, it just sort of left me. So there was this enormous buildup to the point where I actually at one point considered not doing it and getting out of it. Now obviously I was deep in it and they were already shooting and I, and it was my day on

set was less than a week away. But it had crossed my mind that I need to just get on a plane and get out of here. You know, it's, you asked me about it. Yeah. That's what I wanted to hear. This is why I love talking to you because not only are you the best actor on the planet, but you have such anxiety about it all that it's so relatable. I need, I want a genius that is neurotic at the same time that's what you're my sweet spot Gary you know what you could he it's I mean it's all yeah you just you jump and sometimes it's you know this flow there's the line of mediocre you know you can't you know there's a good there's a couple of goodness there's a couple of good ones okay

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that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity. offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. I would presume by now you feel very at home. It is a warm bath to be on the set of slow horses. This is your happy place. this show we've talked about before you kind of helped manifest this with yeah

this happened this is kind of a miracle of the show by now in season five and beyond what does it feel like to be on the set of slow horses as jackson lamb oh it's like being um it's it's like being home like being at home yeah and in terms of the the the the people on the show not only i think is the riding very good of the the the world is of a pedigree that's very good and Lang is a delicious wonderful character but what has made it the more all the more special and a highlight I would say really a highlight of my career other people it the now we have the announcement of five coming out so now we have season five soon to arrive makeup hair crew down to

clap a loader if such a thing exists anymore camera operator scenic painters it I mean, across the board, the people are absolutely just magic. There's not a wrong in the bunch. And the actors are just beautiful people, very talented and lovely to work with. So in that respect, it has been, I feel incredibly lucky. I just turned 67.

I've just turned 67 and I feel incredibly blessed that almost everything in my life right now is the best it's been and with my family and my wife and the you know the kids that grown up and they're the good kids which is the biggest accomplishment I think And it's, and it's so to, to land this role in this series with these people, it's, it's just phenomenal. What are you, what does it mean to be number one on the call sheet for you? You've been, you've been the lead of a mega project, but to be number one on sort of horses, how does that, how does your, what do you want to kind of view into that set? You get a very good table at restaurants. Absolutely. Very.

I get it. Yeah. Can I treat you nice at the airport? But you've been on sets where the number one probably hasn't been a great human being that has set a vibe that wasn't fantastic and you've been number one yourself. I guess what's important for you in kind of how to, I don't know, spread a good vibe on a set of slow horses? Well, I think partly. I think partly I'm naturally curious.

So I take an interest in what people are doing in any one given department. I'm working with younger people who are fantastic, but you've got to, if you're the, I don't know if you call it leadership, but if you are number one, then know the lines know what you're doing having done your work get there early all of those all of those things I think are important and then that and then that

work ethic or attitude then will permeate down right through to you through just the cast and having respect for what the other people are doing it isn't just about you you know and sometimes actors not that I particularly work with any I haven't really worked with real divas as such I work with some interesting directors but there are a whole different species but I haven't worked with anyone that crazy as an actor but you've yeah it's it's showing an interest and a respect for what everyone else is doing but you just get some actors and you think it's all about me, it's all about me, or their method, you know, quote, unquote, and somehow that

they make it all about them. It's like all the energy, it's about you, yeah. And it's a collaborative art form and it has many, many moving parts and you are just one part of it yes at the end of the day you may you're the face let's say up there on the screen that there's a lot of people and a lot of work that go to achieving that end result but I've always like I've always liked the crew I've always sort of been I've never been one for disappearing in the trailer right so at boundaries. As you said, we're all on this together. Your job is pretty damn important, too.

If you're on set, your job is important to creating what we're creating. Yeah, and I know that some days, you know, they're dragging you out of the makeup chair because cameras ready and they're up against it, I get it. But sometimes they're under the the impression that your process in the mic-up chair will not take as long as it usually takes because the camera's ready. You go, no, magic how that works. Yeah, yeah. No, the process is the same, whether the camera's ready or not.

And then, so you then, you've got to, you've got to be the 300-pound gorilla or or the person that says, no, the makeup person needs the time, because it still takes the time it takes, regardless of whether you want to shave half an hour off it and your camera's ready. You know, you've got to be, it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I don't know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

You've got to be the leader, but you've got to be sensitive to the people. You know, it's, it can be, it's interesting. You talk about makeup. I mean, there's like kind of like a karmic balance has been achieved by you're portraying Jackson Lang after so many roles that required so much, so much prosthetics. And obviously there's still makeup, a lot of makeup and important stuff to do to transform you into Jackson. But it's not Churchill, it's not Dracula. it's not this kind of thing um do you still do you do what is that there it is i spent a lot of

money didn't that that's five seasons i do feel like we have to let the casting directors know that you look like you can clean yourself up you can be a believing man the romantic Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you. I just want to make sure you got work after slow horses. How did you do? Well, it's going to end, isn't it? Don't break our hearts.

No, and at some point. So it's, well, of course you... Well, I did. What happened was I did Mank. And thank you. I like that. I think that's a good fit. That's a good fit.

And I'd pawn a few pounds for mink. And then this followed hard upon. And he's an alcoholic. He eats badly. He doesn't bathe much. You know, all of those names. You know, he's a smoker, he's a drinker, doesn't exercise. eats all the wrong food and I thought well why don't I just throw on a few more pounds

you know as hard as it is it's so hard everybody feel for Gary you know all those french fries and those hamburgers oh that's so hard and that chocolate cake and ice cream past us just anyway I see you in your happy place like I see I so I thought well I pack on a few more pounds and that'd be good you know maybe you should do Churchill now just keep going the yeah do the um yeah the whole thing with Stalin and Roosevelt you know do the yeah follow following up with that anyway I am but of course when you you get to a certain age it's um I'm I'm thinking of doing this chair yoga.

Have you seen this chair yoga? Go on. Well, you can exercise, but you get to sit down. I love the idea of that. You can come out with your own instructional business. It's going to be a career. No.

Gary Oldman's chair yoga, don't like. But you get to a certain age, and then you can't. You can't lose it, you can't lose it as easily as you used to be, you know, when you'll be younger. Yeah. I don't want to nod you gave me like you know, but you were saying, Charles, you know. Can you tell by now when a fan approaches what they're going to talk to you about? Do you have a read on like, all right, I think I know what kind of conversation we're about

to have? Yeah. Fifth element. I know it's going to be either the fifth element, the professional. Yeah? What's the other one that's really, what's the other one that's really?

You were Harry Potter. Harry Potter and Batman. Yeah. Has anyone ever screamed everyone at you in public? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that must be startling.

And they like asked to like audition. It's what strange is, is that it's become this sort of, um, I kind of line. And it was all done as a joke. And that was, that was the saying I played the scene. the scene and then I thought I had a relationship with Luke. Luke Besson was this kind of mad in a way when we were shooting on film and then he would say to me okay do the scene again but now do it as Robert De Niro or do it and he would shoot it for kicks and his archive so we had a fun kind of relationship and I went to

the sound guy I said to Luke I just want to do one more let me do one more and I went to the sound guy and I said I'm going to be really loud so be care you know and bring me everyone you know, everyone like that. And I just did it as a joke to make Luke laugh. There was no... Were you upset when you found out it was in the film? That you're like...

I was a little shocked when I saw it. In the film, yeah. Yeah. See, it was just me fooling around. With intensity, with feeling. One more with feeling, Gary. Yeah, but yeah, and yet it's become this line now.

Do you have... I apologize, I know we do greatest hits, and I'm trying to, like, I need to hit some of these points because I love these films. Brand Stoker's Dracula. The challenge of that film, did you feel the pressure on that? I mean, that was a big film.

That was a much anticipated film. It's Copel, who I know you revere. Did you feel the pressure at the time of carrying that weight of that film? Well, it's funny you've mentioned that the writer of Dracula was here tonight. Mr. Hart, where are you? James Hart? James Hart. Oh, my gosh.

Wow. That's amazing. We're going to talk hook later too. Come on up. This guy's a great screenwriter. Amazing. No, I didn't feel, I mean, everyone in his, the world and its mother had played Dracula, but I felt, well, let's put it this way, I didn't need to play Dracula. We'd seen some radar loss.

And I had never even been on my radar to do it or even consider it, think about it. But it was Coppola. And I thought that he would do something very interesting with it. And so I felt carried. I didn't feel that, oh, I'm up against Balagosia or Christopher Lee. And I felt safe. I felt carried by the master. go to her, you know.

And he was going to do something, I think he was going to do something interesting with it. And to Jim's credit, the script was beautiful. And it's different, we were looking at it. We were looking at this very old story, familiar story, from just a different angle, different perspective. Did you have a favorite,

I mean, part of the fun of that film for you as an actor, I would imagine, outside of the prosthetics, which must have been quite daunting. But, like, you get to play him as this kind of romantic warrior in that opening prolog as the, you know, the, almost like this rock star Dracula walking around London, this full-on beast of a monster. Do you have a favorite incarnation of Dracula you got to do? the older Dracula in the castle yeah I like yeah I like the sort of

I like his vibe but I got to say I was telling actually I was telling this story a few hours ago I remember exactly where I was when I read the script and I was in the trailer in a lunch break

or an extended lunch break on JFK and I was about to read the script and audition for Francis and the thing I remember most vividly was I've crossed oceans of time to find you and I thought God would you like to say that line wasn't like wouldn't you like that wouldn't you like to say that to someone you know so that was the thing the Zinger and I had an instinct or feeling for it but I could hear and also I could hear the voice but as

as yet could not physically do it but I heard that voice of Dracula and then went away and worked on it to try to physically achieve the sound that I'd heard in my head did what eventually come out if that was in your head where you arrived at yeah that um it was just a hard yeah that's I can't even do it now I mean I've worked on it I've worked on it for a very long time I've worked with an opera singer on the on the sound and I try to lower my voice but almost an octave yeah but it was just working for him that was the as you get older I for me it's the experience it's the journey and not the end result when

you're younger you're desperate for something to be good because you want people to see it and then it will lead to the next part or you say well I hope it's good because then I'll get I'll get to this next level like you get yeah I'm gonna get to the next level and I think as you get older it's about I'm happy look I'm happy that slow horses is a become a success and And as long as Apple, keep writing the checks and keep, you know, and people want to see the show, then we'll keep making it, you know. But what I've enjoyed, what I take away from it the most is being there in the moment on the set with those people.

And I think Dracula was, I can't remember, maybe I'd imagine, maybe I'd imagine. mixed reception I'm not sure I think it was I it may be 50 50 or 60 40 but what I take away from it is having the opportunity to a work Coppola who is arguably I mean it might well in my humble opinion one of the greatest if not the greatest living American director I just think when you look at them when you look at the work if you if you had honestly if you had if someone said to you what are your 10 best movies if you had to make a list of your 10 best movies on I think three of them on my list

would be Coppola two godfathers in a conversation now conversation yeah godfather part two apocalypse now yes we're doing that one yeah yeah Yeah. I want to talk a bit about, you've obviously collaborated a lot with Christopher Nolan. Talk to me a little bit about what inspired your Jim Gordon. Did you, did Chris... Jet lag.

What? Unexpected, but I'll take it. Well, we went back to the comic books. You know, real going back to it as he, as Chris wanted to, you know, and in, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and, you know, and it, and it, and, you know, and it. and infuse it with some, a spirit of the comic book, of the original story, at a bit of realism, a bit of something, you know. It had got to, I think Batman at that point

had got to a point that was. There was Arnold Schwarzenegger's, Mr. Fries. We had gone too far, we went too far. Yeah, it was really ridiculous. and and so but what happened was there's a sort of you're a police a policeman who is up against it and your best efforts can't corral the chaos right So there's a world weariness to Jim, Gordon, and I know things are at home, you know, if you follow the, if you follow the legend or the. And so for the first Batman, I was, I was living here in Los Angeles.

I was a single dad and I didn't really want to leave the kids for too long but the first Batman was shooting in England in London which was doubling as Gotham they did a pretty good job I said yeah did a pretty good job so we're shooting in England and I said to Chris would it be okay you know I'll fly in and I'll shoot and then fly back and if there's anything back then well Chris now see still shoots some film but back then it was on on film and I said you know if there's anything wrong with the dailies and there's scratch on the neck or you you know where I am I'll be in the car on my way to

the airport and I'll just turn around and come back but you know if everything's cool you know where I'll be I'll get in the car I'll go to the airport I fly home and then I'll see you Thursday or whatever yeah yeah and so I think I ended up doing 27 round trips mm-hmm on the on the first Batman got platinum status on the United Airways and I so I'd go home for two days see the kids fly back work three days go home be home for three days I'd fly to London and do one shot and then get on the plane the next morning and come back so real jet lag helped the world weariness basically and this this was I'm

being somewhat I'm being silly but you know there's a sort of well weariness to him and and so I embraced the that you know the feeling that you have when you when you go back and forth so you've been on a long flight you know I just thought I can actually use this to my advantage and so it worked out but the scripts are this is the thing when people ask you about doing research or working outside of the script if you if you're if you're working with good writing um psycho the psychological the psychology of it emotional it's in the script and it's a map of the world it's a map of your it's a map of your

world that you're going to inhabit, whether it's Dracula or slow horses, yeah. So when you're working with really, really good writing, it's all there for you. It's in the text. And so I don't always feel such a need to go beyond what is... what is there if if the writing when you start breaking a sweat and then you're work and then i've done a few of those you're working far too hard and you're thinking i'm trying to sort of you know and you're in a situation where you're or not you're trying to elevate the the text you're working to lift it

whereas good riding you're surfing it that's that that's that's that's that's the That's why I think I can describe it. Must be a nice feeling when it feels like. When it, yeah, and you know, you, you just, you instinctively, you know that you're working with someone who knows what they're doing as a writer. And then, and then of course the fun part of it is that for something like Darkest Hour, there's 100 books you can read, there's tons of footage and then that plays to your advantage because it's because it's there. And you're also playing someone who is incredibly iconic. I mean, he knew about marketing and all of that long, long before it was a thing, you know,

with the silhouette of the, the Homburg and the cigar. you just look at that image and you go, it's Churchill. You know, he knew about self-promotion, so that's, but that's just, that's a happy accident in a way. You know, you led a role like that and it just happens to come with all these supplements, you know, and you go, well, there's this book and there's this and this documentary and so that's that's part of it but you can't be good riding that's that's that's the thing and and you don't then I personally don't even pre-conceive you have a

feeling about it and and you go in not knowing if you'll be able to even do it you know it may it could be disastrous you could fail but you go in and then let instinct and it's it for me anyway I think it's all about ultimately it's about instinct it's it's intuition I think you can hone intuition and instinct but you can't teach it and give it to someone you can learn voice You can learn movement, you can learn out a soul fight, you can learn kung fu, you can learn many, many things.

And you can work in acting class and work on text. But instinct is... Well, because that's what's going to serve you on set. You can do all your homework, you can create the greatest performance in your living room, but until you have the variables of a lot of set and your co-stars it's not going to be true well yeah I mean you can I mean if you want you can go and learn about the history of Denmark and then you know on the

opening night you're gonna stand there and say to be or not to be and I don't I don't know if your your history of Denmark's gonna help you to be honest probably not there will not be a quiz at the end of the evening Oh, this is it, the day you finally ask for that big promotion. You're in front of your mirror with your Starbucks coffee. Be confident, assertive, remember eye contact, but also remember to blink. Smile, but not too much. That's weird. What if you aren't any good at your job?

What if they dim out you instead? Okay, don't be silly. You're smart. You're driven. You're going to be late if you keep talking to the mirror. This promotion is yours. Go get them. Starbucks. It's never just coffee.

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The last time we chatted about Harry Potter and I asked you about Sirius, you said your work was mediocre and the internet really reacted. So since then, I've talked to Dan Radcliffe, and he said on his last day of shooting with you, with you, you came up to him and said, was I a good serious? Like you asked him, did I do the job?

Sounds like me, yeah. Is that part and parcel? Is that unique to that role, or is that something that often happens at the end of that? Oh, I'll do that. I'll do that. I mean, I mean, I won an Oscar, and two years later, I said to my wife, was Lincoln's Churchill.

I mean, not that that's the mark of it, of, right? To give you a great pass, that should let you not worry. It should let you not worry. But I think that's, I mean, just what keeps, I think, but that's in part what keeps what keeps the work fresh, what keeps you going. If you were self-satisfied and sitting there on you, you know, thinking, and there are some people that think they're the shit, don't you know. They're generally shittier, in my opinion, those folks. Do you know the nicest people ever, the nicest people I work with are often the most talented and the most successful?

um so is the ones they're tricky they're tricky I always find a little bit yeah I always find yeah no I it's just part of my makeup I think but it's my wife's accepted it now it's it's you got a question and I sometimes you know what I like I say I've got to I have to create some obstacles I think to get to motivate me to to do it and then I'm rehearsing you know the play and then I'm going am I going to be any good is this going to be is this a folly is this just this stupid for this idea I've ever had to just go back on the stage.

Have you kept a diary? It sounds like it would be very depressing to read your entries about all of your work. Yeah, it would be so dark. Like this actor must suck. You're reading the work, and then you see the work. I just think, you know, a healthy dose of it is good. You don't want to be so

with insecurity and fear and all of that, then straightjackets you and cripples you. I'm not, I'm just saying it's a healthy dose of questioning. And, you know, that's that thing of what are you most proud of? Next year's work. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's how I sort of look at it. Here's a stupid Harry Potter question. Have you ever sorted yourself into a Harry Potter house? Do you know what house you'd be in? Have I ever won? Sorted yourself.

You know, like, there's Hufflepuff and Gryffindor, Slytherin. Do you know what house you'd be in? I have no idea. What do we think? What do we think? What do we think Gary Oldman would do? Here's some attributes. Do you can...

Loyalty, hard work, patience. Does that describe you? Loyalty? Hard work. work, patience, fairness, dedication? Yeah. That would, yeah. Gary Oldman is a Hufflepuff, everybody.

It's official. I'm a huffin'fuff. What is it? Are you in a huffelpuff? I'm in the bloody movies, and I can't. What is? I'm a huff and puff and puff. You're a hufflepuff.

A Hufflepuff. A Hufflepah. We can do this all night if you want. I had no idea. I had no idea. It was a Hufflepah. Have you ever huffled your puff? There are children here tonight, Gary.

That's funny. Okay. So that's, yeah, that would. That's a good learning we had all together tonight. Have you ever played Call of Duty? Or only inhabited the character in Call of Duty? Well, my memory of the real, only memory of college is just going into a booth and screaming your head off, which they called Battle Chatter. So you've got all the variables. You can go this way and there's a sniper. And there's a sniper.

the tank and that if you go left so you have to give them everything everything but I did but the first one of the first ones I did oh the very first one I did

I think Keitha Sutherland was one of the characters in it and he came out of the booth and he went man he said I haven't screamed so much as I was married Good one. No, I've never, I've tried to play it. No, I can't do the video. I mean, honestly and truly.

I, for the years, I had a VCR that was flashing 12. flashing 12 o'clock. I wouldn't know how, I would not know how to program or the thing and I can't do the thing. Make you, one of my sons is there, gully. And he, yep, you're pretty handy, aren't you at the games? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not. But you're a Hufflepuff, at least.

We know that. But yeah, I'm a Hufflep. I feel like... You gotta do that with a... You need a voice, don't you for her? Hoverpop. Wow. Wow.

What do I do with that? Okay. So... Tom Hanks says that he's made only three or four good films in his career. So we've kind of had danced around this conversation of kind of like self-flagellation a little bit about your work. When you look at the body of work, separating yourself hopefully from the actual films, I don't know. What's the canon?

What's like the Mount Rushmore? What are the films that you put on a pedestal that you've made? Put another way, I could put it to you this way. If this film comes on TV, tell me if you watch it or not. You skip it or you watch it. How about that? JFK comes on. Would you stop and watch?

Yeah, JFK, yeah, I'd stop and watch. Yeah. True romance. Woohoo! Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Tinker Tail or Soldier's spy? for the reasons discussed maybe not or no no good good picture okay yeah it's a

good picture I the fifth element we love it Gary we all love it well let's put it this way if I was watching it with my wife Giselle we'd probably it would probably stick around yeah and she has convinced me that it's it's It's a better film than I think it is. Agreed. Yeah. You know, all I take away from that, really, is I'm contaminated because I was the one who had that hair cut. And I was the one who was wearing rubber.

So others could experience it in a sort of different way. I get a little triggered. I got it, no, makes sense. That makes sense. When I see it, you know, and I go back to that place of Jean-Paul Gaultier and rubber, which Bruce didn't like either. You know that orange vest that he wears in it? He hate it.

He hate it. Tiptoes comes on. What do you do? I've never seen it. I wouldn't. It's a film. Is anyone familiar with tiptoes? Oh yeah.

The internet knows, yeah. Yeah. Tiptoes, it's an interesting, it's an interesting thing because I think I'm right in saying that it was, was it an act to strike or a writer strike? it was an act to strike and was I living in that rental underneath the Hollywood sign this is yeah and I had gone through I was up I'll be very honestly I was in I had gone through a divorce and of a and a and a

nasty thing with a contractor and I mean I was I was in Hollywood I ended up in California in LA a 42 years old single dad and I was broke and ironically I was living under the Hollywood side and living in this rental we had no furniture thank god for ikea do you remember go you had that little green chair and i managed somehow to put bunk beds together and um the living room was a tv and a couple of cushions and no dining table or anything like that and it was um a bit of a rough time And then on top of that, I hadn't worked for 23 months or more. And that's when we got rid of CIA.

And I said, I'm leaving. And they said, why are you leaving? And I said, well, because I haven't had a job for a two years. That's maybe why I'm leaving. Call me crazy, but. And so it was a bit of a rough, a rough time and I needed to pay some bills and I needed some money and it was an actor's strike on top of it, which was like a double whammy on it on top of it all, you know, not poor me, poor me, for everyone.

It was a terrible time. And then this film came along. crazy idea from this director that I would play a little person and I would play Matthew McConaughey's brother well there were simple things first of all I got locked in to doing a voice like that because I had to sound like I had to sound like Matthew so we had we brothers so somehow I had to sound like So that was that was that and then I'm on my knees with the I got a hump and and desperate measures desperate times just I had a feeling a bad contractor

was related somehow to tiptoes in some way yeah and I needed to work and it was a crazy, a crazy idea. But would I do it now? No. Well, now in 67, partly I wouldn't do it now is because if I get down on my knees, it's very hard to get back up. I have to get back up. No, but back then, also there was no real backlash.

There was Peter, Peter Dinklish, we got on famously, and in a way, if you look at it in a positive way, and it's hard, but if I look at it positively, it was, I really, I really, I helped green light the film, so it's my film. I helped green light the film, and that meant work for all those other little people who were in the movie. So it was a good thing in that regard, because they were all going through the same thing

I was going through, you know, with no work, But it was, it was, it's a misfire, to be sure. It's a misfire. Not what I talk about. I'm so glad you brought it up. I was going to say, I'm so sorry I brought it up, and I'm so happy I brought it on. We had such a good run, Gary. Well, come on, because it's the last time now.

I'm going to rebound with this. Let me read you. Rebound with something, please. You're a Hufflepuff. Remember that. We had good times with that. I'm a Hufflepuff. You know what you mean to other actors.

Here are just a few things that folks have said. Prepare yourself. Gary Oldman is hands down the greatest actor that's ever lived. Full stop. That's Tom Hardy. Jessica Chastain says Gary Oldman is who we all want to do. Oldman is who we all want to be when we grow up as actors. Daniel Radcliffe, he's one of the most brilliant,

generous actors I've ever worked with. I was terrified to work with him, and he turned out to be the kindest person on that set. Colin Farrell told me this, actually. Gary Oldman meant everything to me as a young actor. I don't think I'd have pursued the career the way I did without watching him in Sid and Nancy and State of Grace.

What do you I mean you've heard these things before I'm sure these actors have said this to you what do what do you tell them what do you I'm sure they're looking to you for some wisdom what do you say when they ask you for the secret code to a life well lived as an actor what when I worked on When I worked on the Tinker-Taylor Selfishers Spy, one of my heroes was John Hurt. And I'd been, yeah, and I watched John for many years. And I met John on the set, and I remember it very, very vividly. He was outside in a car park, outside the train.

the trailer having a chat with someone and I remember the car coming around pulling into the car park and I could see him from the window from from my from the car window and I thought oh you know like I got sort of like fan boy like you know and I was so thrilled to work with him and so And he told, he was a great raconteur, told amazing, amazing stories. And so it was a real, real gift to have worked with him. And I've worked with some, with some very, very talented people, including Tom Hardy, who you mentioned, who is, have you seen Mobland. Oh, really fabulous in it. Fucking hell, it's fantastic in it.

And I've worked with Christian Bail. It made a lot of really talented people over the years, different actors that I've worked with. But John always talks about being a link in a chain. Right. And I think it's, I like watching good acting, you know, I like sitting there sometimes watching and acting, damn, I couldn't do that.

What they're doing is really amazing. And it's a younger generation of people that come along, and in a way, it's like what John says. You're just the link in the chain. You know, I'm standing on the shoulders of people that went before me that I admire and heroes of mine. It is flattering and what beautiful to hear that and to, you know, inspire in a way.

Yeah. The next generation of people that are coming through, the secret to it is there is none. I think luck is, plays a huge part being, I appeared. I came onto the scene at a certain time, a certain era, was fortunate to do Sid and Nancy and prick up your ears back to back, literally, and that was, it wasn't, it wasn't engineered, but in a way, it It was like a show reel. I could be a punk rocker and I can play a homosexual playwright.

And so that was just, that's luck. And that was meeting the moment. Let's be fair. But you take the, but then you have the opportunity, and it's grasping the opportunity. When the opportunity comes along, then you have to give it your full commitment. But, you know, those people you mentioned are successful, but I often say to acting students or people that want to sort of get into it.

It's, if you've got a plan B, you know, you've got to really want to really want to. to it's got to be in your DNA it's got to be in your cells that because I've been lucky the most but I've had those I've had those periods where I've auditioned and get something you get rejected and you've got to have a tough scheme you've got to be able to just pick yourself up dust yourself off have have some faith that you've that what you've that you can contribute that you have something and you keep just going forward and often and it is what I call it's going back on stage after 37 years move towards the fear yeah go to the you've got to go to those that otherwise you're it'll

suffocate you you got to go out on the wire what is so we have more soil horses September 24th, I'm going to remind the folks, is the new season, you're excited about season five? Anything we should tease specifically about this season? Or we'll just leave them hanging, Gary? Let me think, season five. I mean, you shoot like six seasons, you probably shot 18 seasons already, so I don't know, yeah. I'm trying to think now, season five, um, oh, I can give you this. Howe has a girlfriend but someone is trying to kill him are they related there he is so you went towards the fear of returning to the

stage what is I mean what are you looking for for next I mean you have more work to do on slow horses but yeah is there a kind of experience, a kind of filmmaker, a kind of role you're working for right now? Well, I had a nice experience, I did, I did, I've had, I've had very good experience, but with most directors. Um, I particularly enjoyed working with Soda Burke. He did have a lot of fun with Stephen. Yeah, yeah, and I would, um, I did, well, one of my wishes came through because I got to work with Sorentino. And yeah, and it's just, and he didn't disappoint.

I found it was a beautiful man and wonderful, wonderful director. I've said this before. I'd like to work with Paul Thomas Anderson. Yeah. But most of the career has been what, I mean, I know that my agent and manager over there, they go behind the scenes and work, you know, they're like a hand working eventful who's done. I mean, I know there's some shenanigans that go on that they don't invite, they always say to me that don't talk

about the surgery in front of the patient, I'm the patient. So I know that's a Scott Duggery going on back then behind the curtain, but for the most part, it's not engineered or it. That's the illusion that everyone thinks, if I didn't control anything. Yeah, a script comes in and comes across the desk and you're intrigued and you read it and some of a lot are terrible and then you get something and you go the writing and who's doing it and you know um for instance true romance i i met um i met tony scott god bless him tony um i met him and i hadn't read the script and he literally said to me um he was very wearing a baseball cap and those pink shorts that he used to wear big cigar and he said to me I'm no good at that's telling you the plot or the story and he said look

he's a pimp he's a pimp who thinks he's black and I said I'll do it And Mason Verger in Hannibal, I read that character, that creepy character, and I got a whisper that Ridley was thinking about, I read that character, that creepy, creepy character, and I got a whisper that Ridley was thinking about using a puffer. or an animatronic puppet to play Moses and Virger. I thought that's, that's, that's, that's not one of Ridley's, one of his rare, misfire ideas. Yeah, he's done some great stuff, but not, yeah, not a puppet to play the thing. And so I called him up and we had a chat on the fun

and at the end of it he said, great, great, all right, well my people to speak to your people, people. And I remember actually calling Doug and said, I've just got off the phone with Ridley Scott. I think he's offered me the part and he had. It comes in all ways and all shapes and sizes and sometimes it's a script that you want to chase and the team then will chase or fight for your corner. Other times it's an offer that just comes in or a weird conversation with a Tony Scott or it seems to be the Scott brothers that like to just sort of get out on the spot. Yeah. But yeah it's it's it's it's like air you can't just sort of

happens a certain way and I'm not and I've had my I've been more than my fair share of good fortune so I'm gonna go back to my hotel room and work on my Hufflepuff one-man show script and get it send it your way I remember the voice you got the voice I'm a Hufferlpuff that's an Academy Award winner for you right there spread the good word folks September 24th is the date for the next season of slow horses and sounds like there might be much more after that. Gary, thank you so much for the time. As always, you're the best. Thank you all for coming out, L.A. You're the best. Have a great night. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and

subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh.