Happy Sad Confused - Geena Davis

Episode Date: August 6, 2019

Virtually from the moment Geena Davis landed on the big screen in "Tootsie", her run was unstoppable -- "Beetlejuice", "The Fly", "Thelma & Louise", "A League of their Own", an Oscar win for "The Accidental Tourist". And then as if out of a bad Hollywood script the roles dried up as soon as she turned 40.  On this visit to "Happy Sad Confused", Geena Davis talks about that amazing run as well as her inspiring work in recent years, launching her own institute studying gender inequality in media, acting in new projects like GLOW, and receiving an honorary Oscar very soon.  Her new film, "This Changes Everything" is in theaters and on VOD on August 9th.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The Fly, and her work on gender equality. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrow. It's welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Very excited to say, yes. Gina Davis, Oscar winner, true film icon. She's been in so many of my favorite films, first-time guest on Happy, Sad Confused Today. And as I said to her, you know, I could have three different conversations with her. I could have the conversation about, you know, certain specific films, the macro career. Like, she's really has been in a half dozen Stone Cold

classics. And then there's this other side of her, especially in the last 15 years, since she started the Gina Davis Institute on Gender and Media, which is this wonderful organization that is really studying, you know, what we all know to be true, which is that there's this massive inequality in front of and behind the camera when it comes to film and TV. And she's done such remarkable work there. She started her own film festival, the Bentonville Ventonville Film Festival. She has this new documentaries that she's the executive producer of called This Changes Everything. She's really helping make strides in an industry that needs somebody to fight the good fight. And that's certainly what she's been doing for a long while now.

So just on that aspect of her career, it was a thrill to have her here. But also, as you know, as you guys know, I'm a child of the 80s and 90s, and she was in so many of my favorite films of that time, whether it's, you know, her film debut in Tutsi, Beetlejuice, A League of Their Own, Thelman Louise, The Fly. I mean, the long kiss good night, as I told her is one of my favorites, an underrated

classic. There was a lot to talk to her about, and she was a delight. I'm so thrilled to get to know her today, and I think you guys will as well. We cover a lot in this chat. Other things I want to mention before we get into the main event today, a couple cool smaller films are opening this week,

at least in New York, and I think on VOD and they'll start to spread around that you should look out for. And I'm doing some some fun Q&As for each of these films. So I especially want to give them a little bit of love. First up, there's a film opening this Friday called The Peanut Butter Falcon that stars our buddy, Shia LaBuff, Dakota Johnson, and a young man named Zach Gotsigan. Zach is a young man with Down syndrome, who is the lead of this film. And it's like a touching sweet story, a Mark Twain-esque journey for these three characters that is unlike anything you'll see in cinemas this year.

And if it doesn't move you and touch you and make you feel a little bit more alive, then there might be something more wrong with you than the film. So I highly recommend that one. I'm doing a nice little Q&A for Shia and the gang here in New York tonight. So excited to see those guys and support that film. Also, a movie called Love Antosha, which is another really touching film, this one, much different. It's a documentary about Anton Yeltsin. Anton, as you probably know, passed away a few years ago in a tragic accident and really made his mark in a short time on this planet as a unique spirit and a very talented actor, probably most well known for his roles in the Star Trek films, but also in films like Crazy.

and Green Room. He was really an actor that always popped off the big screen and a real life force on and off of it. And this is a great doc that I saw back in Sundance. And I just want to mention it because it is a smaller work that might otherwise come and go. But it's well worth seeing. And I'm actually doing some Q&As with the filmmakers behind it this Saturday at the Quad Cinema. I think I'm doing the 7 o'clock show and I want to say the 445. 5 p.m. I think we're doing Q&As after each of those. So come on out to the quad, go see Love Antosha, and you can see me talk to the filmmakers afterwards. Come say hi. Two smaller films to mention. And also support this film that we're talking about today with Gina. This changes

everything is the new doc that is really an extension of all of her work. And it's a fascinating look at the gender disparity on and off-screen in media, but also very entertaining and interesting because it has a rogues gallery of like the greatest actors on the planet right now including Gina and Merrill Streep and the list goes on and on they're all involved in this so check that out it's in theaters on Friday it's also on VOD

this Friday so a lot of cool films you know it might be the dog days of summer but especially these smaller films are finding a little a little window a little place to to find their niche so go support them support independent cinema and yeah see Hobbs

and Shaw too because we got to support our guys Dwayne. I actually haven't seen it yet, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm behind, guys. A lot going on. Other stuff to mention, I don't know, some cool podcast guests coming up. I don't want to jinx them. Some new folks. One actor I've never spoken to before on the podcast that I'm particularly excited for, an actress, another living legend. That should be coming up soon. Anyway, that's the tease for today. I hope you guys enjoy this conversation with Gina. know one technical note this happens ever so rarely this happened like i can have on one hand really two or three times in the podcast history uh there was a mechanical failure of some kind with the

the main the way we record the podcast um so that failed at a certain point early on in the in the taping luckily i always have a backup going so we're melding those two together you might notice the quality kind of changes uh five 10 minutes into the conversation it's still totally listenable, if that's a word, still will totally work for you, just not up to the usual audio quality that I try to get here. So apologies for that. It happens. Technology. And there might be like a little gap in the conversation, but I think it'll be relatively seamless. Hopefully the conversation will flow. The important thing is, guys, it's Gina Davis. She's an Oscar winner. She's amazing. She's made some amazing movies. Let's listen to her together. Okay? Here's

Gina. I'm very honored to have Gina Davis. Gina, it's great to meet you. I've been a fan for so long, and this is a big deal. You're up to so many exciting things, so a lot to cover. This was a good excuse for me to watch The Long Kiss Good Night, just last night with my wife, introduced her to that. So thank you for that. Oh, great, great, great, great, what did you think? She liked it, she was into it, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, what percentage of the conversation should be devoted to the Long Kiss Good night? Exactly. Well, we've got some important stuff to cover, too. There's some new stuff, yeah. Yeah, yeah. If you'll indulge me, though, can we start at the beginning and then we'll kind of come all the way up? Sure. Okay. So it's interesting because, obviously, like, I could spend 45 minutes with you just talking about your work with the Institute the last 15 years.

And I could spend hours and hours talking to you about any number of your films. Are the seeds of both of those pursuits, like, in your childhood, you think? Do you see, like when you look back to the way you were brought up, like, does the acting bug and kind of this pursuit of this activism pursuits, are they both there? No, the acting definitely was. Because supposedly I told my parents when I was three that I wanted to be an actor in movies. And I don't know, I don't remember that, I don't know what I saw that made me think. this is a job that you can have or something but but that that never changed the only other career i slightly um thought about was wrapping packages at a presence at a department store

i was fascinated by that uh have you stuck with that are you a good rapper i thought i would be good oh i'm very good at it yes uh uh but i'm not a professional no leave that to the pros right but yeah so that was always there you know no I didn't I didn't predict that I would get so heavily into you know advocacy and

like that back then that wasn't part of my childhood or anything I felt passionately about stuff but I didn't picture myself being, you know, trying to lead any effort or anything like that. What did it mean to you? I mean, did the word feminism even enter into your lexicon as a kid?

Well, yes, in a bad way. My parents subscribed to Reader's Digest magazine, which I always read. And there was some article in the early 70s about how feminism is this horrible thing that's ruining the world. and I read it I had never heard that word before and all I thought was well this is a horrible thing to be

and I'll make sure I'm never that whatever it is because it was definitely about women being something that was really bad and so yeah I had no introduction to those concepts but you know my dad was very

I guess, well, he introduced me to so much, you know, he was very, very handy. He built things and fixed everything and very, very crafty that way. And he included me all the time in the stuff he was doing. We're going to go shingle the roof. Let's go come with us and help me fix the car and stuff. So I grew up feeling quite competent. right in certain things and uh and so i had a kind of self-assuredness about that i would be able to do things if i needed to do them you also i mean i presume you were pretty tall from the start oh i

was way tall from the very beginning yes so did that because that can go one or two ways and maybe both ways it can empower somebody as a kid or it can make them feel like the odd man or woman out oh yeah I was definitely the odd woman out. Yeah, I was very tall always and very self-conscious about it. My mother would not let me slump. I had to have really good posture. But yeah, I felt bad about it. In fact, my favorite children's book, a picture book,

was about a princess who was only one foot tall. And I read it over and over. pictures of her being so little and watching. A dream for you. My dream. If I could only be tiny. The dress is always greener, as we know. Yeah.

So, I mean, you talk about, you know, the war being that at three, you, you talked about wanting to pursue this to your parents. I mean, what do you, were you, as you recall yourself as a kid, were you like a theatrical kid? Were you a big personality? Like, what do you think you were chasing as a kid? Oh, that's it. You know, I wasn't really a big personality. I was pretty shy. I was quite shy, in fact, as a kid.

And I kind of only did stuff in private, or with my best friend. We were always putting on shows in her basement. And her mother, we'd force her mother to watch. But it wasn't like, I want to show off when people, you know, my mom would make me play the piano when relatives came over or something. And I so didn't want to do anything like that.

I was very shy about standing out in any way. But it was sort of like, well, I'm going to do this later. I'm going to grow up and do this. Yeah. And not, you know, I wasn't in the drama club and stuff like that. So, okay, so by the time and jumping, this is admittedly jumping ways ahead, but like you land in New York after school. Yes, yes.

So by then, okay, when you come to New York City, where are you at? Like, where's the self-confidence? What's the dream? does New York open you with open arms? Like give me a sense of sort of what, Gina Davis, landing in New York City, what's her life? What's she like? Well, the goofy thing was

I made it very clear at Boston University when I was majoring in acting that I wanted to be in movies and it was so much focus on theater it was really all about theater at that point. And nobody ever said, by the way,

if you want to be at movies, she should probably go to L.A. when you're graduate. Yeah, theaters in New York's theater, totally. So all my classmates were coming to New York, so I came to New York with them. But I had a scheme for how I would get into movies. Because I really had no interest whatsoever in trying to audition for plays or anything. So my idea was that I would try to become a model first, because at that time, it seemed like Lauren Hutton and Christy Brinkley were in movies.

And I thought, oh, well, If you're a model, they just offer you a movie, so that'll work out, because it's so easy to become a super model, I'll just bang that out and then... How quickly did work come, though? Because you did. That's where you started. I did. I became a model. It took maybe a year or so. I worked at Anne Taylor on 5th Avenue, and I worked in restaurants, but at the River Cafe. The famous story I've heard, correct and if I'm wrong, is that you went up for SNL at one point. Yes, yeah, I wanted to join the cast, and I sent a video, and I was already working.

You know, I was already, my career had started, but I really wanted to do it. And it was the year that Christopher Guest and Billy Crystal and Harry Shear were on the show. I think that was just one year, you were there, but. So they said, all right, we'll meet with them, and it was out in L.A., and so we went to lunch, and Christopher Guest is incredibly deadpan, as you may have heard. You're just, you know, like Buster Keaton, you know, it's nothing, there's nothing. And we sat there, and they were literally saying things like, so what's funny about you? Oh, gosh. what do you what do you find funny and it's just like we weren't having a conversation getting to know each other

it was just you know tell us why you think you're funny and stuff it was awful literally the worst possible question and then uh when harry sherr was really sweet and he felt very empathetic and he leaned over and said just shove a carrot up your nose it's too fat fall you could see that it was just such an awkward situation but anyway but that's so that didn't happen So, but what did happen, I mean, you can't, you know, you can't start a film career with a better kind of a film than Tutsi. Right. I mean, Sidney Pollock, legend, Dustin Hoffman, Bill Murray. I mean, it's insane.

So, presumably, you had an awareness of that, too. Like, you land that, you're like, oh, I just hit the jackpot. Oh, my God. I so knew that. In fact, it was my first audition, and they had called my model agency, to see if they had any models who could also act, and they said, yeah, we have one. So I did the audition, just, you know,

with the assistant casting director and put it on video, and I never thought about it again, because what are the odds? Right. You get to do scenes with Dustin Offutt. I mean, it's ridiculous. So, yeah, so it was an utter shock to be cast. Did you see the tension between Sydney and Dustin?

then that's a famously like fraught relationship from what I hear. I mean, not really. No, no. It didn't, it didn't show on the set. And I was there every day. Oh, wow. Okay. Because nobody told me you don't have to come every day.

But by virtue of that, you probably saw a lot. I saw a lot. I learned so much. Every day I would go and get me. Did anybody at some point say, like, by the way, you don't have to be here? No. They must have assumed I wanted to be there or something, but every day I'd get my chair and put it.

right next to Sydney and sit next to him all day. The best. And he was happy with it. It's the best. In the wake of Tootsie, do opportunities immediately start to happen for you? Yeah. Because of that, I met Dabney Coleman, and then he recommended me for the TV show Buffalo Bill and he was getting ready to do.

So I immediately moved out to L.A. and started working. Here's another one I read. Were you up for Sarah Connor, Terminator, around that? Okay, that's not true. That's not true. Okay, no. No, this, some crazy list on, like, ragged tomatoes or somewhere, or IMDB, where it lists all these movies I turned down. I'm like, oh, my God, I would have had to be insane to turn those movies down.

You got your badass characters a little bit later on. We can't cover everything, but, okay, so jumping around a little bit, I consider, honestly, the fly is like a top 20 movie for me of all time. It's kind of a perfect movie. Wow, thank you. And I think it owes to two main factors for me. It's Kronenberg's obviously expert direction in the world he creates. It's also just like the seriousness of which you and Jeff are treating this material. Because in other hands, like it can be like a little hokey.

But you are acting your hearts out like it is the tragedy of all time. Right. And that's why it's like so emotional by the end, even though like he's covered in the most, insane prosthetics you've ever seen. I know, I know. Yeah, well, we did. We took it incredibly seriously and figured, you know, this was a tragic sort of operatic love story.

And I took it very seriously. There was a lot of talk about Jeff was going to be the first horror star nominated for an Oscar at that time. Yeah, he really should have been. Yeah. Yeah. And I read also that you, so you obviously, you work with you, you marry Rennie later on. Were you in Rennie Harlan working on a sequel at one point to the fly?

Was there a treatment called Flies? No, no, Rennie was never involved in that. No, I came up with an idea for a sequel to the fly called Flies. Because I end the movie still pregnant. Yes. and I figured so what if I have twins and

uh oh a little later around puberty or so one of them starts to turn and what are we going to do and actually Fox at that time loved the idea and I think we even got a script I know I wrote a treatment for it but it never happened because it was a sequel

which was not so great which was not so good so good but they told me the producer the first one called and said, we're making a sequel. I was like, oh my God, that's so great. Wow, you know, I'm going to get to be in the sequel.

And they send me this script, and they say, definitely want you need you to be in it. Send me the script. And on page two, I bleed out and die. I was like, are you fucking are you? What might have been? They should have done flies, clearly.

Yes. Tim Burton, Beetlejuice. Tim had not done that much. Like, he had done pee-wee, basically. Future was. Of course. But, like, as I understand, and this happens a few times in your career

from what I gather, where you're kind of, like, the first one to sign on on a few major projects that kind of, I think it happened on Thelman Louise and some other things. Was it just pee-wee and meeting with Tim that you were like, yeah, I'm going to go on this crazy journey, like, this guy's got something?

Well, yes, but also the script, I loved it. I loved it. And Tim tells this story, But when I met with him, evidently, I said, I get this movie. I just, I totally get this. And he thought, I don't really get it completely myself. So I'm going to at least I'll have one person on this set who thinks they know what it's about. Amazing.

Accidental tourists, of course, changes your life in an amazing way to you. You win the Oscar for that one working with Larry Kasden and this amazing cast. I would imagine like to ask the years goodbye like do you look back on that like does it get more surreal that like oh that happened to me like like oh yeah so surreal like it must be a separation from the event like you see the pictures like oh that was me at that it really is unbelievable some of this stuff that happened and and that too you know I was reading that book while we were making the fly and and I was immediately mad because I knew they're probably going to make a movie out of this and I'm going to be so mad at the person

who gets to play Muriel like not even think or maybe it'll be me you know it's just like oh this is the best part ever and I'm so bummed that it even exists and then it was me it was incredible amazing

it's so funny because like yeah looking at the sequence then I don't know if it was the next film but like pretty soon after you're in a film that I really adore that kind of bombed at the time is quick change. I know.

It's a very underrated movie. What the heck? It's, and as a New Yorker, as a born-bred New Yorker, like, it's like of that time, like, one of, like, the great New York comedies. It shows off New York, and it's, for those that don't know, it's you, and it's Bill Murray, it's Randy Quaid, and it's Bill directing, co-directing, which is fascinating. Right. I love that film.

I also thought it was really funny, and I was really surprised that, because everything in Bill Murray was in was like gold you know and uh and it was a legitimately funny movie it wasn't like you didn't have the goods no no exactly so yeah i was really bummed about that i was like all right here comes a big gun really knows well and then of course that the way hollywood is it comes in the unlikeliest of places where something like thelman louise which there's no template for right like on paper that's not the movie that should have become a phenomenon oh no no i know and that's the thing people i think assume that we knew we were making something that would strike a nerve or that was our intention.

It was the furthest thing from our minds. I mean, the writer, nobody thought it was going to cause a spark like it did. And then it's funny because it's that end of their own, like, pretty much back-to-back for you. And if you look at those two films, I think it's like those two and basically glow, which you've just done, which are like the probably the only female-led ensemble films or projects you've ever done. Right. And that's striking. Yeah.

I mean, this starts to dovetail into kind of the reason you're here, which is this documentary. Right. But it's fascinating, too, because Delma and Louie's phenomenon. Like a ginormous summer blockbuster. Right. And yet, dot, dot, dot, dot, it doesn't go anywhere. Right. So at the time, were you aware of, like, that disconnect?

Like, were you confused by that? Or is it only in retrospect as years go by? Like, oh, yeah. Like, that didn't really beget other. projects like that right well yeah that took a little while to notice because like you said everything in the press and everywhere it was like this is a whole new era yeah it's it's all changed now I think they call at the Academy Awards in 92 or something they called it the Year of the Woman and so you know I think

those movies might have had something to do with that and And I believed what everybody was saying, that this is now going to, you know, usher in a whole new era. And I was very excited about that, like, yay. So that means I'll get more great parts like these. And it's all going to be fixed. And then it was sort of, it was sort of through being interviewed that I finally picked up on what was actually happening. those after those

movies or even when we were on the set doing interviews for League of their own everybody would at some point ask so things are changing now for women aren't they

things are getting better and I'd be like yeah and then a couple of years later I was like well you know I'm not I'm not sure but it seems like it and I'm getting some really great parts so I think things are probably improving

until, you know, five years, ten years go by and I realize, oh, my God, nothing changed. And other movies have come out that were supposed to change everything and didn't, like First Wives Club was very heralded as the new era coming in because now women 50 were going to get all these jobs.

And even the ones in the movie didn't get all these jobs. Well, and it's funny too, you know, this has been pointed out, it's pointed out, I think, in the doc too, a key part of the problem seems to me is like women get one time at bat and if it doesn't work for a female director they go to director jail where for a guy

you can fail upwards endlessly seemingly and that seemingly applies to even you know a female ensemble film that doesn't work for whatever reason for a myriad of reasons sorry we'll see you in 10 years we'll try it again in 10 years as opposed to just going right back to it It's also striking to me, like, okay, looking at, like, the arc of your career, it's, like, almost out of a Hollywood script. Like, you, you work with Reni a couple times, you do these big action movies, you do long-kiskin night, around then you turn 40, and then it's like Hollywood script, it's like, she's 40, let's turn off the spigot.

Yeah. And that's, it's just amazing. Yeah. So, again, like, are you, were you too close to it at the time to kind of realize that, like, did you see the scripts drying up very quickly or? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did. It really, because, you know, you hear about that phenomenon, well, once you're past four, you know. And it wasn't roughly true. It was literally true. Yeah. As soon as there was a four in front of my age, everything changed. And, yeah, that was horrifying. I was sure that wasn't going to happen.

Did you feel, like, in retrospect, that there was anything you could have done to change tactic? Because then you start to kind of, like, shift gears. You start to do a lot more TV. Was it just market forces that, like, you can't, you're at the whim of, unfortunately, other forces? You know, you really, unless you can write things for yourself, or, you know, a lot of powerful women in Hollywood have their own production companies and are very successful creating things for themselves. But not having that, you're just at the mercy of what comes your way. Yeah. And all you have power over is choosing between. things you're offered. And it wasn't like I was offered nothing, but nothing was any good. I mean, after the kinds of parts I played, I wasn't about to lower my expectations

profoundly. I always say that I can only be this fussy because I can afford to wait. And if you ever see that I'm signed on to play like Sean Connery's, Comito's wife in something, about the right Hollywood age difference. Then everyone will know that I'm broke. That's the Michael Caine needs a beach house, Jaws, syndrome. Right.

Okay, so coming up to more of the reason you hear this doc and your pursuits with the Gina Davis Institute. So you launched this, correctly wrong, 2004. Yes. Very much tied also to starting a family and seeing kind of like pop culture to the eyes

of your daughter, correct? So what are you seeing then and what sparks? What's the first spark of creating this institute? What's the mission at the start? It was the very first thing I showed my daughter when she was a toddler. I thought, oh, she's almost two. Let's sit down and watch a preschool show. And within minutes, I was like, wait a minute,

how many female characters are on this show? And it was wildly imbalanced to perform. profoundly imbalanced, and then I started noticing it in lots of things. I mean, there were some preschool shows that are gender-balanced. Tel-Tubbies are. Okay. She can't tell. Yes, that makes sense.

But it was not at all the norm. And then there were movies, the first movie I showed a video, wildly, profoundly imbalanced. And I was like, this is crazy. What are we doing? I just assumed, which I think everybody, does that kids entertainment is harmless or sometimes researched and carefully thought of when it's preschool shows and I was stunned so none of my friends noticed what I was noticing my feminist friends with daughters were

like appalled to learn this and said oh my god you're right so then I started bringing it up. I had meetings all the time in the industry with directors or studio execs, whoever. And I would say, have you ever noticed how few female characters there are in movies made for kids? And every single person said, no, no, that's not true anymore. That's been fixed. And we helped fix it because we care about it. You know, they weren't saying, who cares? They were like, we care about this so much, and we know we've fixed it. And that's of the striking things in this doc, which is excellent, and your executive producer on it features

like every major female actress, the last 30 years probably, and it is the realization that it's not gotten better, it's gotten worse. Like, things were better. Yes, yes. Which is shocking. And I think

it's also a very smart tactic what you guys do in the film, and in that there's kind of two ways you can approach this stuff. It's like on an emotional level, like this kind of anecdotal stuff, which is hugely powerful to see little girls talking about seeing Wonder Woman and et cetera. And that really hits you. But just as much, if not more so, is the data. Yes.

Is the stats. And this movie and your work is just like, is just dripping with the data. Right. And that's just you can't argue with. Right. Maybe in 2019 you can when a valid facts don't matter. But I would argue they do. What are the stats that jump out at you?

that you pose the people that turn their heads around? Well, from the beginning of my, you know, the reason I launched my institute was to get data because I realized that people are not seeing this problem, which I think is profoundly important. Like, why would we train kids to have unconscious gender bias from minute one? You know, what on earth are we doing that for?

So it was that it was the data which was able to, that changed everything. So I wanted it specifically to be able to go directly to the creators and say, I know you didn't know this, but what do you think and can we do better? And it really works because they're horrified. They really didn't know. And so it was very unconscious. But for other aspects, aspects of the industry, like particularly behind the camera, the data doesn't work because everybody knows it already.

For decades, everybody has known how few female directors there are, you know, and it's, it's like 4% now. Right. You can't even, you can't even take it in. Yeah. 4% when half of film schools are female now. So that's an embarrassment. That's a global embarrassment. Have you ever been on a film set where it's been approaching 50-50 in terms of crew? No.

Oh, God, no. Never. Not even, I don't think even 10%. Except Glow, which is very heavily populated by women, obviously on screen, but behind them. behind the scenes as well. Definitely that crew is over 50, I'm sure. Does being in this work for the last 15 years make you,

I would imagine it makes you go back and reflect differently on a lot of things, on the representation or lack thereof that you saw growing up for yourself, on the way characters were described in scripts that you saw. I mean, you lucked out much more than a lot of actors. True. But even so, I'm sure you, the descriptions for the female characters were a lot less substantial, to say the least. Exactly. So, does anything strike you?

Like, looking back, like, re-evaluating, like, were you exposed, like, what you were exposed to as a kid in terms of representation or lack thereof? Oh, well, you know, we didn't go to movies much in my family. We only could see, until I left at home, only could see Disney movies. So when a new Disney movie came out, the family would go. But that's how we saw. You know, we watched a lot of TV, but there weren't characters that I, like, well, I want to be like that, or that I wanted to pretend to be play or dress up like or anything like that. But definitely I noticed when I was actually working and looking at scripts and looking at parts,

I really noticed how few there were that I wanted to play that they got to do anything. It was so often the girlfriend of the person having the experience. And I wanted to be the baseball player instead. And so I turned down so much. Because I didn't even think I could be good at a part that wasn't colorful in some way. Oh, I know what I was going to tell you, that there were a few times where I thought, well, I'll meet with the director and see if I can convince him, him, to make the part, you know, I have a way that this could be more substantial. And nobody ever wanted to go for that. It happened even less than a year ago.

Wow. But nobody's ever wanted to go for that. And some people just looked at me blankly. It's inconceivable to even like... How fuck are you talking about? Change it? What? Okay, let's look at the positive of the negative in recent years.

Like, what's been the easiest part to shift? Like, what's the most progress that you've seen made in the last five years, say? And what's the hardest part to shift? Well, definitely on-screen in kids. entertainment is the easiest somehow I managed to latch under the thing that's the absolute lowest hanging fruit because people didn't know about it at all and the data is very very convincing to them and they want to do right by kids so it has all that going for it and you know we we've seen the impact that we've had and it's

going, you know, I wanted it to happen like overnight, but it is happening. So that's, I think, I'm sure that's the first thing that's going to go. Yeah. On screen in general in all movies, I think, is still the easiest. Because, because you don't have to, there's no arc you have to go through. You don't have to sneak up on it. The very next movie, you make him be gender rounds. So, you know, it's not a systemic thing. It's just like... Right. Yeah.

Right. I mean, it seems systemic because it's all that happens. But so that could be fixed. The hardest is going to be, I think the hardest is going to be directors. And obviously cinematographers and composers and are all in the low single digits. producers and writers are a little better and they slowly creep up

and TV is doing a better job yeah they definitely are more seemingly in all aspects of representation TV's been much more progress on screen and behind yeah I guess the hope is I mean you mentioned like the stat of like what you said in film schools it's 50% basically there is a trickle down that if we're that we're seeing it in

right I mean you know you've heard this story before so I'm sure I can understand why you're like, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. Exactly. That's who I am now. I'm the, I'll believe it when I can measure it. Right. Has this pursuit, this part of your life, affected your acting work?

Like, in terms of people offering you jobs, does it have an adverse or positive effect on the way you're perceived? Do you think in the business as an actor? Well, that's, you know, that's interesting, because I don't want it to, people to think, well, now she's doing that. Yeah. And I profoundly have not given up my day job.

And, you know, that's still my bread and butter. That's what I care about. That's what I love. So I would definitely love to be doing more of that. But I don't think it's, the reaction we get is so positive everywhere we go. And studios have all, you know, ask us over and over, please come back, please do more research, please help us. So I think I actually have a pretty positive image around town.

But I make a point, whenever we give a presentation, I say, now let me ask you guys a question. When is my next, when is my next Warner Brothers movie? I mean, come on. Yeah. It's about time. Let's go. And they laugh, and I say, seriously.

No, seriously. Let's get it right down to it. No, seriously. You know, when I say change some characters to female, I mean, for me. Let's start with me. At some point, this has to directly benefit me as much effort into it. Yeah. Look, everything else is rebooted.

All I'm saying is long kiss, good night. Right. I've had, in all seriousness, I've interviewed Sam Jackson many times over the years, and it's like the part he always talks about wanting to come back to. I know. I know. Me too. Me too.

Oh, my God. Have you ever read a treatment and anything from Shane or anybody, like an idea for a continuation? No. No. No, no, I would love to. And we hoped that we would make a sequel. I mean, we made him live at the end. Yeah, he can't, yeah, originally he wasn't, right?

Yeah. You are up to a lot of cool things. So you're in Glow, the new season. Congratulations, and that's a great company to be a part of. Oh, yeah. You're also, and I don't know much about this, but I love Jessica Chastain. Oh, yeah. Can you say anything about that?

It's Eve, I think. Eve is called, and I can't say a lot about it, but it's a sort of action movie and a thriller. And I play her mother. Okay. Although I'm profoundly too young to be Jessica Jessie's mother, which she readily acknowledges. She was apologizing all over the place, I assume. Well, I made her.

He pressured the apology. I forced her to say. Let's do the math, Jess. Just see you know. Exactly. But it's cool, and it has, you know, John Malkovich and my boyfriend, Colin Farrell. Oh my God So I was doing

I forget why I was doing this But I was meeting with the Golden Globes folks Yeah And talking about different things And they asked about that movie And I said that I said my boyfriend Colin Farrow And then one of the guys

Came up afterwards and said You know Colin Farrow is a really good friend of mine And I just texted him That you said he's your boyfriend And he texted back well, I'm very fond of Jana Davis. Oh my God, I'm dying now.

I'm dying. He is the most charming man on the planet. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, he was just on the podcast recently, and I, yeah, he's the best. And we need to get you into one of these Marvel or DC films. Oh, my God, yes. I know you've talked about this.

I'm awful, I mean, I'm sure many people would just lose their minds to see you in that context. Awesome. No, truly. People should write in. Have you ever met with it? any of those, with the Marvel DC folks for any of these projects, has it come close to happening? Not about a

specific project, no. Yeah. But in generally, well, we meet with everybody. Yeah. We meet with everybody. But I think they know that I would be really, really up for it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We'll make it happen. If we can

help secret that into the universe. I'm a badass. I need to be in a badass part. Yeah. Guys, look at the body of work. She's done it before. She can do it again. Yeah, I mean, as you can tell, I have such reverence for your work, and you've been a big part of the films that I love in the 80s and 90s up through now, and the fact that you're doing so this great work.

We should also mention you're getting the Gene Herschelt Award from the Academy, which is a huge honor. Oh, I'm excited about that. That'll go nicely on the mantle next to the Oscar. Exactly. Pretty cool. Thanks so much for coming in today, and good luck on the new doc. This changes everything.

Everybody should check it out. It's in theaters. It's Friday, but it's all. on VOD. So, yeah, check it out. Great. Thanks, Gina. Thank you very much.

Thanks. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. You may not realize it, but every minute of every day, you're enjoying your First Amendment freedoms. You can wear what you want, give out your opinion for free, even if it's unpopular.

Listen to your playlist. You can put a sign out on your front lawn that says, Vote for Bigfoot, someone you can believe in. Pray to the God of your choice, or don't. You have the right to hang with a posse that thinks like you do. what you think about its policies. They're the freedoms that let you be you, and they're all brought to you

by the First Amendment. Learn more at Freedomforum.org. Goodbye, summer movies, hello, fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast,

and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two.

Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar Wright's The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.