Happy Sad Confused - Gillian Jacobs

Episode Date: February 8, 2016

The lovely and talented Gillian Jacobs joins Josh this week to talk about her new Netflix show "Love," how "Community" brought stability to her life as an actor, one of her worst auditions, and her short documentary "The Queen Of Code". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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go to howl.fm. That's H-O-W-L.fm. And use the promo code Happy to get your one-month free trial right now. Hey guys. Welcome to another edition of Happy Second Fused. I'm Josh Horowitz. This is my podcast. I am here to welcome you to 45 minutes, 50-ish minutes of the lovely, the talented, Gillian Jacobs. Gillian is, of course, one of the stars of community, one of the stars of girls, one of the stars of girls, one of the stars of a new series. series on Netflix called Love. We talk a bunch about this new show that I'm a big fan of. I watched a bunch of episodes just yesterday. They were kind enough to send me an early sneak peek. It's coming on Netflix, I believe, February 19th. And I watched the first five episodes. And it's great. It's produced by Judapitow. It starts Paul Rust and Gillian as kind of two semi-screwed-up folks who may or may not be falling for each other. It's refreshing. It's funny. It's definitely worth your time. Highly recommended. We get into that and much more. I should say it's just me by my lonesome in the intro today. Sammy has abandoned me for another coast. Joel's not around. So it's just a little old me telling you about my podcast. What else to tell you about? I will tease because I did it anyway in the course of the conversation with Gillian. She rested it out of me. I'm very excited. Next week we're having. Michael Mann on the show. Michael Mann, the great filmmaker, is currently being celebrated here

in New York at Bam with a retrospective of all his films. So if you are a film geek like myself, if you appreciate great masters, authors, that certainly is Michael Mann. So unless some strange fate befalls me, if an act of God prevents me from talking to him, look forward to that on next week's edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. lots of cool stuff coming up. We've made it out of January, guys. Congratulations on getting through January. It is kind of a feat for folks that appreciate great films to get out of January because that is, frankly, where horrible films live. At least if you look at the release schedule, you can figure it out. By January releases, you can see what they're dumping. But the good

news is, look, we're in February. That means we've got actually decent movies coming out. We have a Cone Brothers movie coming out, which I'm going to see, hopefully very soon. We have a Zoolander sequel, which I'm seeing tonight. I cannot wait to see a new Zoolander movie. I have high hopes for that one. And Deadpool is coming out. I've seen Deadpool. I'm not sure if I'm glad to talk about it.

I'll speak about it in vague terms. Deadpool is, how can I speak out in vague terms? It's good. Okay, I broke the embargo. It's good. I think if you have liked the trailers and if you've been itching for like an R-rated different kind of superhero film, that's the one for you. I'm actually going to be, if you're listening to this on Monday or Tuesday, February 8th or 9th,

February 9th, I'm going to be doing a Q&A with Ryan Reynolds and T.J. Miller and Marina Baccarin and Ed Scheen, yeah, for the cast members from Deadpool at the Apple Store in New York City, Soho Apple Store 6.30 p.m. February 9th, come by and see me talking to Deadpool himself and crazy T.J. Miller. He was going to take over the conversation in the best possible way. So, yeah, lots coming up, guys. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Gillian. Yes, it's Gillian, not Jillian. We don't get into why, but just accept it. Okay. She's super charming, super smart. She has, we talk about her. filmmaking now. She's just directed a new film called The Queen of Code, a short doc,

that you should check out on 538.com. And she's someone that we talk about this a little bit. I mean, I haven't actually interviewed her that much or done that much with her over the years, but I feel like we've always gotten along from the start. And both kind of at early points in our career, we chatted. And I remember enjoying her company and hopefully vice versa. back in Sundance for Choke, which was an early film she did, directed by the great Clark Gregg. So we reminisced about that and a great many other things and talk about, geek out about filmmakers and struggles and triumphs and all that fun stuff in this fun little conversation with Gillian Jacobs. Check it out. Here it comes. I'm going to stop talking. Here we know.

Bye. I can't believe it. Gillian Jacobs is in my office, guys. I'm so excited. I'm excited to finally be here. I was saying to you and to your publicist, I feel like, you're one of these people that I feel like I've done more interviews and done more stuff with than I actually have. Uh-huh. Like, I feel like we've talked about doing stuff and just it hasn't happened.

And I felt like the first time we met was very memorable, at least for me. So I feel a connection to you. Good, good. Even though we don't see each other that off. We'll see if we can destroy that connection here today. No, it's good to see you. And I was saying before, I feel like yesterday I spent, like, a day. Your voice was in my head a lot yesterday.

I listened to a few podcasts. You've probably done more podcasts than I've done. Really? I don't know. I feel like you're a vet. What did you listen to? Janet Varnies. Oh, yeah.

Some old ones. Okay. Some older ones. You went back in the vault. Yeah, the vault. So you might be a changed woman now. And then I watch five episodes of your show, which is really great. Thank you so much.

The show is love. That's not how I'm expressing love for it. It's literally called love. And the show's a love. It's just made of love. You've got some amazing folks behind the camera, including, well, Paul Rust is on camera and behind the camera as one of the co-creators and Judd Apatow. Judd Apatow, not bad.

Not a bad gig, if you can get it. Yeah. Thank you for being here on the snowy day in New York. I know you're in New York. Do you feel like part of you is still a New Yorker? Sure. Sure. Why not?

It never leaves you. And I also feel like I've gotten a chance to spend more time here in the last few years. So I feel a refreshed connection to the city. Yeah. So, well, I guess let's start with the show, because that's fresh in my mind. Were you looking to do another series? How did this one happen? You know, it happened so quickly after community was canceled by NBC, the first time we were canceled.

That's qualified. Yeah. I hadn't even really thought about it yet. So it kind of came to me. It was the easiest job I've ever gotten, which is remarkable. Usually it's a struggle, and especially with TV, you have to test and you go in multiple times and pass a network and studio gauntlet. So this one kind of happened so fast.

And I think I had one second of like, do I want to do another TV show right now? And then I was like, it's everything I would want. So why pass up on this great thing? Yeah. And you got, I mean, we talked about the pedigree behind it, but also the fact that, I don't know, like, when it was presented to you, it was, but it was like a two-season pickup from the start. Well, it was before they took it to Netflix. So, yeah, they came to me before they took it out to the networks.

Got it. Yeah, which is nice because it's sort of, they wanted to present it as this is the show. It's Killian and is Paul. If you want it, you want it. If you don't, you don't. Operating from a position of power. Well, when you're Judd-Apital, you get to do that. Does it feel like, because it's interesting, I think you're now the third cast member from Hot Tub Time Machine, too, I've had on.

I thought you were going to say community. No. No. Frankly, actually, I don't like a pat on. Oh, Allison's been on. Oh, yeah. Who are the other hot tub timers? Hot tubbers.

Adam Scott. The greatest. I mean, literally the best. And Cordy was just in here a couple weeks ago. Also kind of the best. For Children's Hospital? Yes. Have you ever done Children's Hospital?

I never have. You need to get in on that. This is the gauntlet is being thrown down right now. if I not. I'm friends with David Wayne. I've worked with Cordy. I've worked with Ken Marino. I've worked with Huble. It's insulting at this point. They had an amazing episode, I think the second or third of the season, with John Hamm, that is one of their best. They're going strong. I love that show. Well, I don't like it yet. Don't make it weird. Don't make it. No, I'm kidding. What was my question? Oh, I guess my question was, because, I mean, you know, in your career thus far, I think you'd probably agree, your most successful stuff. at least in terms of stuff that has resonated with folks,

it's been television. We've had a couple of very successful shows. I think this one's going to be successful with both critics and audiences, hopefully. Has it been, on the film side, has it been frustrating? Do you feel like you've had a tougher road to go down? Or can you figure out why film is tougher to crack than TV for you? Or you can fault the premise of my question, too, go free. Let me think about that.

that you really never know how things are going to do. And so, I mean, community could have been canceled so many points along the way and somehow through luck and chance and circumstance at NBC clung on. But I guess with films, like, you don't know if it's going to get into the right festival, if it gets into the right festival, who the distributor is going to, you know, there's just so many variables with it that I have kind of had to release myself with expectations beyond like trying to do a good job. Yeah. And then the rest of it is out of my control. So is that like something that like evolves in terms of philosophy at having been in

things that you think are going to turn out better than they have or things that you think are good that just don't find an audience? Like yeah, do you become more kind of detached at a certain point or is it still kind of like oh my heart and soul into that what's going on? Yeah, I think you still have that moment of like I don't know why that didn't hit the way I thought I would. But I think by and large I try and have a fairly detached view from it and just focus on doing things that I believe in and I want to do. And so then that's the joy in it is doing it and then beyond that, who knows? And when you're in something like this, like again, with such talented writers and performers and you're going to an outlet like Netflix, I mean, this feels

like not easy, but like you feel, like I would think you feel safer in this kind of context, yes? Yeah, I think the deck is stacked in a more. favorable way on this show. You know, it's really, I've learned helpful to have somebody like a Judd Apatow if you can have that somebody. You know, it certainly, you know, getting a two-season pickup from Netflix right off the bat and all of the wonderful things that have gone along with that, you know, community never had that like mega super producer that, you know, could throw their weight around.

And so I think consequently, you know, we kind of got shuffled around at the network. So certainly it's fun. to come to the party with Judd. And I think that he kind of just, he attracts other quality people. So the level of the material is higher. So how would you describe love, the show, not the emotion.

You can go there too. Similarly, I think that it is a show that follows two people. Mickey and Gus, I play Mickey. Gus is played by Paul Rust. On the surface, we're complete opposites. but both kind of at low points in our life and you realize over the course of the show that these people are drawn to each other for some reason

and they really have to get their shit together if they're ever going to successfully find love and happiness. And Mickey, at least by episode five, still has a lot of shit to deal with. She's kind of screwed up. As we all are, to 30 degrees. Yes, I think her issues are more on the surface. Yes.

Then some people are better at hiding their things. Right. Yes. and she has some poor impulse control issues. So she can make a scene. Does it feel like a new kind of character or something that you haven't played before? Is this refreshing in some ways?

Yeah, I always get excited when I feel like the character is so far removed from who I am as a person in my day-to-day life that it feels like sort of a dare. Yeah. Can you pull this off? So certainly I felt that with this one. How much of the show?

Because it's co-created right by Paul and... Lesnarum. our friend. And Leslie, who's associated with Paul in some way. They are married. They are legally associated. That's the proper legal. That's how you refer to marriage. Legal association. I have been legally associated with my wife for now for eight years. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. She hates it when I call it that. Her my wife or anything. Really? No, no, I'm kidding. But I guess my question is, obviously, they're drawing, I would think they're drawing upon their experiences or whatever. Do you feel like you have an equal seat at the

table in that you can kind of like contribute your own experiences? Like is that, is that something that's they've been very welcoming of my ideas and opinions and, you know, had me come to the writer's room and sit and talk with them. And so I don't know that there's as much specifically from my life in the show, but I felt like it was a very collaborative process. So I'm sure at some point something will leak in there. That's me. But so far, nothing that's directly out of my life. Would your relationship history make for a good sitcom, drama, sci-fi? What genre are we talking about? I haven't dated an alien, so I don't think sci-fi would be-that I know of. That could explain some behavior. The tasks have not come back yet. Probably start off as a depressing

drama and maybe move into a lighter comedy. Yeah. Nice. Have you done season two yet? We start in March. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. So circling around randomly in my brain. Yeah.

Okay. So we're in New York. You went to Juilliard, which sounds like it was a thrilling, happy expression day one. A joy. A joy. A joy. Does you feel a kinship with other folks that have gone through that run that gauntlet? Because, yeah, I mean, we're being facetious, but that's a tough one.

I know. I'm looking over at your board. I went to school with Lee Pace and Oscar and Jessica Chastain. Anthony Mackey was there, right? Anthony Mackey was there. Yes, you have been through things, similar things. No matter when you were there, it's like you can look them in the eye and know that you both know with the scorist. So when you...

Kevin Klein wasn't there when I was there, first class in Juilliard. Well, you worked with him recently, right? We didn't have any scenes together. Oh, you're in a film with him. Yes. I love Kevin Klein. I know. Who doesn't love Kevin Klein?

I mean, he came in for the podcast, but I know. It was all I could do not to just quote David him all. Oh, yeah, or a fish called Wanda. Oh, please. That's literally a perfect movie. Yes. Julia, Julia. Okay, so I was going to say, so where were you at, like, okay, like in terms of

your confidence level, the day before you started at Juilliard in like a month after? Like, you know what I mean? Because you had been acting professionally. Yeah, in Pittsburgh. But still. Yes. Yes, sure.

And then you get to like literally the high water mark in America, like the best place you can go. Was it a rude awakening? Yeah. I mean, it's sort of that classic thing of freshman orientation. They're like, look to your left, look to your right. One of those people is not going to be sitting next to you. It's not that dire at Juilliard, but it certainly feels like you all come in with this cocky arrogance of like, I did it.

I got in there. Like, it's just begun. And then they slowly break you down as the years go on. And usually around your sophomore year is a real low point. And then hopefully your junior and senior year, you're kind of. climbing back out of it. Yeah. So certainly it's like you go from feeling like I've done it to like I'm the worst actor that's ever lived. Yeah, I read your recent piece for Lena's website, which was about I guess you were on probation. I was. Which again seems like what I've heard about you and read

about you like seems out of character given your background. That must have been like. It was a shock to me. Right. Yes. No, this isn't, that's not who I am. No, I'm the teacher's pet. You don't put the teacher's pet on probation. You love the teacher's pet. Do you, are you philosophical now and like, oh, that was good for me. I needed to go through that. Yeah, I think so. I think because I'd had such a great run of it as a kid in Pittsburgh, like did so many plays and kind of got to do Shakespeare and Chekhov and work at all like the best theaters in Pittsburgh, I'd kind of had a charmed time. So this business is so cruel that I think had I had an equally easy time at Juilliard, I think getting told no, have devastated me. Yeah. So I think the fact that I got roughed up a bit in college made me feel more prepared for the rejection, not surprised by it. And like, oh, you just endure. That's this

career. It's a profession of attrition. And so kind of you just got to hang on. So and you were growing up, only child, sounds like relatively early, you got obsessed with this to a degree. So you mentioned something like a fish called Wanda. Give me a sense of the things you were films, actors you were obsessed with as a kid. I was saying earlier today that I was a real Monty Python fan as a kid. I had an acting teacher who would play us Lemmings, the National Ampoon Lemmings albums and make us learn and perform Monty Python sketches. And what else? I loved Catherine Hepburn as a kid.

I loved like Carrie Grant, Catherine Hepburn comedies. I watched a lot of those, which didn't really make me popular. I'm saying the other kids at high school, we didn't want to watch. Yeah, or elementary school. I was obsessed with the Derek Jacoby miniseries I Claudius in elementary school. I've always meant to watch that. Oh, it's like a wonderful Roman soap opera to the point where in elementary school, we got eggs from the 4-H club that we hatched, and I named my chick posthumous Germanicus, which was a character from I. Claudius and everyone, I mean, once again, like looking back, no wonder no one wanted to talk to me.

But at the time, like, I just thought I was obsessed with I Claudius. Right. I liked, like, Poirot. I loved Agatha Christie mysteries. And I read all of Sherlock Holmes as a kid. And I loved Shakespeare. I saw that Kenneth Branagh, much ado about nothing movie when I was a kid. That made a huge impression on me.

It's funny. I said the story before. I remember vividly going to see Hamlet when it came out. Oh, yeah. With the intermission here in New York. And I skipped school to go see it. It was like a big deal. Every amazing actor shot in 70 millimeter.

I was like, this is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. So I really loved Shakespeare. And I would try to see every Shakespeare play that I could. And I got really into George Bernard Shaw. Kids love George Bernard Shaw. Children love George Bernard Shaw.

Brinks them together. I had a nickel for every sleepover that was just asbesting George Bernard Shaw. Major Barbara is frequently. only a topic of conversation. Yeah, there's a George Bernard Shaw Festival in Canada, and I dragged my family there for like five summers running to go see, yes, shavian plays. So I'm not sure if I went out of along with you as a child. Not many did. Yeah. I got along much better with adults, which is why I was so shocked when the teachers at Juilliard didn't really think much of me. So out of Juilliard, was it still a tough road? Because you were doing some plays in New York,

stuck around in New York a little bit. Yeah, and I did some independent film here, and then I would go to L.A. and do pilots that didn't get picked up, or if they did, I was recast. Like, you know, just those. That's got to be, uh, what, what, how does that happen when you get recast? Do they tell it how does it happen? You're not good. Or you get blamed. Well, I guess I'm more interested in the process. Do you get a phone call? I think I had a phone call. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the show did not go on to be a hit, so it was not like an ongoing open wound. Right. I would imagine. I imagine it would be much tougher if it was like, the job of a lifetime. But I think a lot of actors have that experience.

You know, and once again, it's like, I think because I had a hard time at Julia, it's like, these are things that happen. You just got to keep going. Like, you can't give up because your ego got hurt. Was there a point that you felt like there was it going to be a plan B? Or was it always just sort of like, I'm going to be able to figure this out? I feel like I started. Off, off, off, Broadway.

Yeah. I started to get nervous. And, you know, certainly my friends. who weren't actors, it felt like their lives were moving along more than mine was. Like, they had much nicer apartments than me. They had, I mean, I had like a flip phone when community started. Like, I couldn't afford it. You know what I mean?

They were like, why do you still have this flip phone? I was like, I can't afford anything else. So I think I was kind of worried if I was ever going to make a living doing it. And you sort of are like, but the dangerous pull of this profession is we're all one audition away from everything changing. Yeah. So that keeps you going. And thankfully, I got community and, you know, it brought a lot of stability to my life. And I stopped feeling so nervous all the time if I was ever going to, because that's the

other thing. When you don't have a lot of momentum going as an actor, every time a job ends, you're convinced it's the last time you'll ever work. Right. So I, before community, I had started to work more consistently. It wasn't, like, I didn't have that, like, pressing anxiety, but I wasn't really making a good living doing it. So to be able to actually buy furniture and things like that.

I can afford a sofa. Totally. Kind of. Oh, when I started community, I had an empty apartment with one chair and a bed. Wow. My friend said, you were a minimalist. The feng shui was very. I've been compared to Neil McCauley of heat in the past.

That's amazing. I'm seeing heat. Michael Mann's doing a festival here. I heard. And, okay, I'm going to say it. I don't want to change. Michael Mann's coming on the podcast next week. Oh?

My God. I'm really excited. Oh, my God. I know. I'm obsessed. It's going to be intense. What's your favorite Michael Mann movie? I think, I was thinking about this because I've started to prep a little bit.

I think Heat and Les Mohicans are two perfect films. Yeah. Perfect films, basically. But I would also say collateral is great. I would say Manhunters. Oh, Manhunters. I just watched the movie. Yeah, Manhunter is amazing.

Oh, my God. What else do I love? They're all amazing. I know. Black hat, parts of black hat were shot not far from where I live in L.A. Oh, really? Yes. You could tell Michael Mann was nearby because the streets were wetted down and there was pink neon lighting.

He's showing a, like, a new cut. I heard. I'm going to give it a try. I'm going to hope for the best. Is it like additional footage or just recut? Apparently he's recut. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know how much new footage is in there. Get an email right now. Find out. M. Man at AOL. Why doesn't you have an AOL address? It's so weird. Anyway, enough of my like, man, that's next week.

So what was the first, do you remember your first, like, big audition? Like, what was, like, the first thing, even prior to community that you had? I remember right out of college, I, like, we went to L.A. to do our showcase from Juilliard, and I got an audition for this movie. I remember it was a period piece starring Shia LaBuff as a golfer. I think Bill Paxton directed it. It was like the greatest game ever played, right? And at that point, I thought if you got a callback, you got the movie.

So I remember I got a call back and I was like, ha, it's in the bag. I got it. And then very quickly, oh, I had another, you want to hear another terrible experience? Please. I live for them. Okay. So I was in New York. It was pilot season.

It was like this whole thing, like New York actors, do you go to L.A.? Do you stay here? Things happen very quickly and you kind of feel like even being a couple hours behind. rolls are just slipping through your fingers. But I'd gone on tape in New York and they said they wanted to fly me to L.A. to test for this show. So I was so excited. It was my first time testing, first time being flown to L.A. for something and you get put

up in a hotel and it feels very exciting. And so first you audition for the studio and then if they like you, then you go to the network. So I auditioned for the studio. It's like a group of girls all up for the same part. And afterwards, the director came out. I was like, okay, so do you have any, like, notes for me for next time? And he's like, yeah, so maybe think about this and this and this. And so I called my agents.

I was like, I'm going to network. I'm going to network. And I'm waiting and waiting and waiting to get the appointment for the network. And finally, I get a call from my agents saying, you're not going to network. The director, he wasn't really that experience with TV. He didn't understand that it's not all up to him. And they really liked you, but you're just not right for this part. And they're so sorry.

The casting director called me to apologize. She's like, I'm so sorry. and I, like, started crying on the phone, trying to, like, mask it because you don't want to seem too pathetic. But, like, you know, you just have those experiences where when you're right out of school, you don't know which end is up. Yeah. You know, and so everything that happens, it's like, it's happening. And then it was like, no, it's not. I have to go through the meat grinder a bit more.

So, yeah, I definitely had big auditions like that that I felt like I used to, like, get so nervous that my vision would go out of focus. Like, you just don't know what your stress responses are, really. until you're in those situations and my mouth would get really dry and my eyes makes for a really good audition for a blind, dry-mouthed young actress. Panicked, um, flop sweat is what they're looking for. And I remember one

time I was like, I'm just kind of like make a joke and like lighten up the room. And I remember afterwards the casting director called my agent and was like, yeah, she shouldn't do that. And like that didn't go over well. So do you remember the joke? No. It was for like some vampire TV show like pre-True blood before it like had really gotten, you know, it's, and I just, I don't know what I was doing. Do you still, do you still have

any of that residual stuff if and when you have to go audition for stuff now? Sure. And, you know, a lot of things in this business are nerve-wracking. Doing talk shows are scary. Like, there's, you know, but I try and, like, talk myself through the panic a bit more. Yeah. And I don't feel so quite as desperate as I felt previously, you know, and that people can smell that. I'll be okay without Yes. And people can smell that from a mile away and it's not good. So the less desperate I feel, the more I'm able to like. Yeah. I'll be okay either way. Yeah. Well, this sparks a lot of questioning. Let's do some first. First film festival you went to? With you. Well, I had a feeling. It was for choke, right? No, actually, I'm sorry. I'm lying. I went to

South by Southwest for this movie called Blackbird with Michael Shannon, your big fave. I love him. But really, the first movie I did that made it to theaters was Choke, which is where I met you at Sundance. Yeah. That was one of my first Sundance's. That was amazing. So what do you remember of that going through that experience? It was dreamy because it was like the movie sold at our after party after the, you know, it was like a big sale at Sundance that year.

And for me, it just felt like, oh, this is so, I see you, Sam Rockwell on your board over there. Sammy Rockwell. Is that a better human being? Rockwell? No. No. Yeah. So that was just a dream. And Clark Gregg, who directed the film, was so supportive of me and made sure that they brought me to Sundance and all of those, like, lovely things that were so considered of them. Because I had a small part, but it was my first time doing press, really, and all these things. So you don't quite know what you're doing. Like, I remember I didn't have a stylist and I was, like, going, I didn't have any money, like,

going to stores trying to, like, find a top, like, that would be Sundance appropriate. You know, You just don't know, and you sort of realize as you're in this business longer, there's like a whole machine behind it. But when you're first starting out, you just feel very much on the other side of it. Probably, like, my first time getting, like, hair and makeup done by, you know, all those things, which are so exciting at the time. And now you're a jaded other. Cynical.

Can't believe they booked me on this podcast. So what excites you at this point, though? I mean, honestly, there must be still things that, this is a first. This is a... Are you kidding me? Like, community was so, like, basically a web series of a TV show that everything on love excited me. Like, I was giddy to shoot on location.

I was giddy for driving scenes. And they were like, why are you so excited? I was like, we were trapped indoors for years at a time. We didn't shoot in natural daylight for years at a time. So, yeah, I get excited. I mean, I've done so many tiny budget indie movies where you don't have a dressing room. You know, you don't have craft service. you're changing in like a public bathroom at Port Authority and like so any niceties I'm still

really thrilled by you had to change in the Port Authority oh yeah that movie Blackbird with Michael Shannon I distinctly remember changing in the public bathroom at Port Authority and being a New Yorker and being someone that you know what that means oh my god because I used to I went to school upstate New York and I would take a bus from the Port Authority and it was like the saddest it was like I would take like a midnight bus to get back home after a weekend here it was the scariest place on the planet. So being in that bathroom, like, it's, I'm happy you're still with us. Yeah, yeah, I've changed in some pretty gross places. Yeah, I've had my hair and makeup done, like, just in a parking lot, just like in full view of the street. You know, I mean,

you just, you can't be precious about anything. So, yeah, anytime it's a little bit cushier than that, I get excited. Okay, let's do a couple other first. First, either or both of these, first award show or first talk show. Any of those spark any memories? The first award show where we won anything was the Critics Choice Television Award. We won for Best Comedy one year for Community, and that was huge. We were the most excited people there. Like, it wasn't quite as big of a deal as it is now. Like, you know, it wasn't tele...

I don't know that it was televised. The TV and movie parts were still separate. A lot of people had left because it was one of the last awards. And we got up and were, like, jumping up and down in front of, like, a half-empty ballroom with, like, people who were, like, like, mainly had lost or, you know, glazed over people who just wanted to, like, get out of their high heels or go home. And we're, like, jumping up and down, like, you don't know what this means for us. We never win anything. So that was very exciting. I feel like community, I

mean, now in, I mean, I don't know if we could say it's officially over. It's never officially over with something in the community, right? But it's uncillable. But looking back, at least, of what you've done so far on it, I feel like it's the equivalent of like when I was growing up of like, and this is maybe a bad analogy. It's like, it's almost like you were like on like a Star Trek show. You were, you know what I mean? You were kind of like, you weren't like mainstream mainstream, but those that watched it obsessed over it and were like, it was their life. And that's, that's a rare thing. It is. And you know what I realized as the show went on, that it meant something to people emotionally in a way that I couldn't have anticipated. And that

that is a real privilege because when you meet people who have such a deep connection to your show, that's rare. And so I really tried to appreciate that as it was happening, because You just don't know if that'll ever happen again. So, yeah, it's a really special connection. I mean, and more than a lot of shows, we were like, you're the reason we're still on the air. Yeah, like almost literally, you actually. Yes. So that intensity of connection from us to them as well.

Yeah, they organize their own convention for the show, Communicon. I mean, how many people can say that? This is what I'm saying is a Star Trek kind of stuff. Yeah, they've had three of them. So what does it say about a person when they, when your character is their favorite, you think? What does that indicate about? They're misunderstood.

They're the butt of all the jokes in their friend group. I love it when people come up to me and they're like, I'm Britta. Yeah, I wear it with a badge of pride. I feel like I'm often Britta in real life too. Well-intentioned, but make a lot of mistakes. I hope that I don't take myself quite as seriously as Britta does. and I think I have slightly more computer knowledge than Britta. I can do more than make it seep, old West color.

But yeah, poor Britta. Poor Britta. Best of intentions. Wait, here's a segue. Since you mentioned computers, I watched your little, your short doc. Thank you very much. No, it's great. It's called a queen of code. The queen of code.

And it's interesting. It has the ESPN banner. I'm like, oh, ESPN 30 for 30, but this doesn't feel ESPN-y, but it's great. I guess the indicator is ESPN is like, about the gold standard and docs. They were amazing. Yes. So how did this is your first directing effort?

How did this one come about? Well, Dan Silver, who really, I think, is responsible for why we love 30 for 30 films. I met him first because he visited the community set because Danny Pouty made a 30 for 30 short. Right. About Marquette basketball. And then I was on a panel at the Tribeco Film Festival with him a couple, I don't know, maybe like a year later. And so I really wanted, I was like, if you're. handing out directing jobs to actors who've never directed before, I want to get in line.

So I had a couple of like, you know, 30 for 30 sports ideas that weren't quite right for them. And that series was so established that it was like their slate was essentially full. But I think ESPN bought the website 538. In the meantime, and so sort of out of the blue, he called me and said, we're doing this series. It's like 30 for 30, but it's like computing statistics, tech, docs. and do you want to make one about this woman, Grace Hopper? I was like, who is Grace Hopper? And so from there on out, I tried to educate myself to the point where I actually understood what she had done.

Sure. Because at first, it was just, like, gibberish to me. And so then once I realized, really, what she had done, I got really excited about the idea. And so, yeah, I made this documentary despite the fact that I know a little bit more than Britta, but basically I don't know anything about computers. And it's out there for free, guys. You can watch it all right now, and it's great. And, yeah, I frankly was not aware of her work either. But it's great to see actual footage of her speaking and the older photos and stuff.

And it's a fascinating little story. She also made a really great appearance on David Letterman. We couldn't get the rights to it. But if you Google Grace Hopper, David Letterman, it's a great. She's hilarious. Yeah, she's terrific. What was I going to say? Oh, I know what I was going to say.

You were also at the White House recently with like an old acquaintance of mine, Meredith Walker. Yes. Meredith, so you were with Smart Girls, which is this great organization that Meredith and A.B. Polar run. And Meredith, I don't know if she worked at a show. I worked for John McEnra's talk show. Oh, yeah. Like a dozen years ago. And she was the Booker there. And she's awesome. And I know she moved back to, I think, Austin now. Yeah, she's in Austin. Yeah. So tell me about getting involved with them and what you were doing at the White House. Yeah. So I'm such a fan of smart girls at the party. And they asked me to come. along with them because the White House reached out to their website and said, will you come and help bring some more awareness to this event that we're doing? So the White House, I think President Obama and Valerie Jarrett started this program called White House Champions for Change. And this year it was all people involved in computer science. And so it was students. There was like three

girls from around the country, two high school students, one college student. And then educators, researchers, and advocates for computer science education. And it was, one of the most inspiring days I've had in a long time. It really shows you the true power of well-intentioned people who are trying to change the world. And you just left full of idealism and enthusiasm. And I went on code.org and was like playing like third grade level computer games, trying to teach myself the rudimentaries of coding. And I'm trying, I want to challenge myself this year to learn how to code.

And so it was an amazing day. So growing up, it sounds like from what I've heard about you, you were close to your mom. Yes. I mean, did you have, by and large, female role models that were kind of like charting your path, you think? I mean, what was that? Yeah, I would say so. I had a couple of acting teachers who were hugely influential for me, one of whom taught at Carnegie Mellon, Ingrid Sonicson. What Up?

Big fan of the podcast. Big fan. Well, she taught Zach Quinto. I'm looking at your list. Okay, good. Yes. So she was my acting teacher and also taught acting at Carnegie Mellon. So I would go and sit in on their classes when I was in high school. So I met Zach Quinto and Matt Bomer and all these people as a like 13 year old. And I was this weird kid sitting in the back corner of the class. And so she was a huge influence on me. shout out to Joan Rosenfels of the Upper West Side, who I met when I was 17, and we were cast in a play together, and she's remained an hugely important person in my life. She's an actress and acting teacher.

And so, yeah, I think I tend, I just find moms, substitute moms wherever I go. Pat Baxter, what up? Now you're just making names up. No, I'm not. Pat Baxter, was my mom in L.A. took her on. I'm like, whether you want another kid or not, I'm your new daughter. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm curious because, like, you've talked about sort of like those first film roles that you did. It was kind of like you're like run of like runaway stripper, drug addict, you know, you had that. There was a bunch of that. And a lot of actresses had that. That's not unique to your experience, sadly. And some of them were worthy parts and cool parts and things like Cho couldn't, some maybe less so. But I'm curious just like rationalizing, like, you know, being someone that I would think you characterize yourself as a feminist and someone that's looking for, you know, to be. be, if not a role model, be someone that's responsible and someone that, you know, is, again, charting a good path for others to emulate.

I mean, back then, were you self-aware about these things and being like, oh, God, like, I have to do this just because I have to do it? Or, like, this sucks, like, this is all that's offered to me and young women like me. Give me a sense of where your head was at then. And in retrospect, now we're back. I think that those professions are disproportionately overrepresented for young actresses. So it kind of feels like a rather large percentage of the parts out there, or at least the parts that I was in contention for. I tried to do things that I believed in. You know, I did this movie called Gardens of the Night, which was really bleak and sad, but I felt like also an important and moving film.

and I'm proud of Choke. I mean, was I jumping up and down about playing another stripper again? No, but I really liked the book. I liked the script. I liked the actors and the director, so it felt like something that I could feel good about. But, you know, I thought I was going to be playing, like, Juliet

in Cleveland at the Cleveland Playhouse. You know, like I thought when I graduated from college that I would be playing like the classic ingenue. and I think at first it was really flattering to me that people could imagine me in parts that felt so different from who I was that I couldn't understand why they were wanting me for these roles.

So I think it was a good acting challenge initially, but certainly by the time I got to community, I was actively saying, like, please, I want to do a comedy, I can't do another movie like this. And so I was very happily doing comedy from there on out him for a while. And, you know, I feel like, you know, the Mickey character on love, she's got

a lot of issues, but she also feels like a person that I know, you know, so I think we all struggle with things. But yeah, you know, you don't get a lot of, I think that's the thing is that, like, as a young actress, young actor, you don't get a lot of choice. You are, you know, fighting to get cast in everything, whether it's like, you know, the most prestigious movie out there or something now that I would look back and go like, that's a tiny budget indie that's never going to go anywhere. It's still a fight to cast in everything. So I think there's some part of you that just also wants to work. You know, so, you know, I wish that I had, you know, been cast in, like, a winter's bone and, like, been set on, like, a Jennifer Lawrence trajectory, but that's not how it worked out for me.

You know, it's everything's been much more, like, incremental for me. What about philosophy in terms of, like, something like love? of, it's integral to the story, but, like, you know, there's some, there's some both frank and very comedic sex scenes, like, right from the start. Yes. And, you know, I mean, do you have, like, a different philosophy on those at this point in your career than you had early on? There's stuff you've learned about approaching those that makes it more bearable.

I have a great lawyer. A lot of clauses. A lot of clauses. A lot of clauses. Very specific language. But seriously, you have to do that, right? Oh, yeah. Before every scene, it'd be hilarious. would be on set. He's like, all right, tomorrow we got one coming up, so we got to talk through

this. Your upper gluteal cleft, otherwise known as your butt cheat. I mean, like, my poor lawyer. 30% of side boob tomorrow. Yeah, I mean, we negotiated the nudity contract for choke when I was at my grandmother's memorial service. No joke. So we have spent some hours on the phone together. Big ups to Jamie Feldman. I'm just shouting everybody out today. Yeah, I think, you know, You learn to only do what you're comfortable with, do things that you feel like are servicing the story. And I think just, like, as a life lesson for everyone learning to say, no, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

So you've got the second season you're shooting relatively soon. March, yeah, we start again. Upcoming film stuff? Yeah, I did a movie with Mike Barbiglia that's going to South by. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go for that.

And I made a movie with Dimitri Martin that hopefully will go to some festivals this year. And what else do I have? That's enough, right? That's enough. That's good enough. You're good. Yeah, I'm good. Guys, I'm good.

Don't worry about me. You're directing short films. I want to make more. That's another thing I really want to make more short documentaries. Did you do the interviews in that? Yeah. Was that enjoyable? It really was.

I liked every aspect of it. I really liked it. It felt like creative problem solving a lot of the time because it's like you have a limited budget for a documentary. And, you know, every photograph, every second of film footage has a price tag on it. So really learning to kill your darlings by having to cut things that I loved and I thought were essential,

but we just couldn't afford the footage or, you know, basically hounding universities and libraries and museums until they gave us the rights to images. Like there was the companies that this woman, Grace Hopper, worked for have been bought and bought and bought and bought. And so finally, I think Unisys Corporation owns them now. And so I was trying to get in contact with them. And every number they had on their website didn't work.

I remember sitting in my dressing room in community, just calling number after number after number and getting like busy signals or like gas stations. And so finally I was like, I'm just going to tweet them. And so I tweeted Unis and was like, hey, I'm trying to get in touch with you. and someone responded immediately. I got in touch with the right person. But yeah, I felt like relentless. I felt like shameless.

Like things I would never do as an actor, like self-promotion wise or like be far more aggressive. Like I made my aunt call Harvard on my behalf to get the rights to images. Like I was just be like, hey, I need this, you know. But it felt like. It was for the right cause. It was for the right cause. Yeah. And it's some help that like the role of director gave me.

enough removed that I was somehow emboldened to do things that I would never do as an actor. Do you want to direct narrative as well? Was that a, I would like to. I don't want to direct something that I'm acting in, though, initially, because that just, I don't know how people do it. It just seems so intimidating to me. Yeah. So I would, if I was to do that, I would like to direct something that I'm not in. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I really had fun writing that article for Lenny. and so I'd like to do more of that. I'm just sort of like in a place where if something scares me, I'm drawn towards it. That's why, how you got in this office.

This podcast could be very bright. You terrify me. I'd probably shouldn't have worn this monster outfit. It seems a little on the nose, but. You should put that mask on. The Frank mask? Yes. Do you want to end with a random question?

Sure. I'm a sketchy Indiana Jones fedora. Yeah. Love a sketchy Indiana Jones fedora. I know. I know what you're into. Oh, yeah. We've had a lot of those on community, I feel.

My favorite sport is My favorite sport I like to watch is tennis. What does that say? I agree. I've been to the U.S. Open and not in years, and I really want to go again. I love watching tennis. I also weirdly like pro wrestling.

I read this about you. That seemed incongruous. I know, but you know what? I'm a woman. What does Walt Whitman say? About Hulk Hogan? Did he have a quote about Hulk Hogan? I contain multiple.

Do you keep up with it now? No, I'm out of touch. It was so funny. I was just talking to someone who was really a fan. They're like, you haven't been in so long that everyone that you saw before is now like in the WWE. So you got to go back again and like get up to date. Have you been to WrestleMania? Never have.

No, I've gone to this thing called Pro Wrestling Guerrilla, which is in Reseda, California, in a Legionnaires Hall. And it's like four rows of folding chairs around a mat. And it's like, it's like the indie cousin. Right. It's like the wrestler. without the pathos, you know? I was going to say, you're living fox catcher. Yeah, no one is, like, throwing chairs at each other

or, like, cutting themselves. Some did cut themselves one, and I was really disgusted by that. Too far. Too far, sir. It's a step too far. Blood was dripping on the floor. There was, like, droplets of his blood in front of me.

I'm sorry, Gailin, when you get into pro wrestling, then the brakes. That goes with the towel. Too much. I don't enjoy blading. That's the term for it. Is that true? It's called blading.

I love that. I've learned so much about you. Yeah, should I answer another question? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. I do feel that's going to haunt my dreams your love of wrestling, though. You're going to rewatch the wrestler. I love the wrestler. Oh, my closest friend's family call me, they call me beans.

Okay. Because they say I spill the beans. Oh, really? Which I dispute. I dispute. Dispute. I rebuke this nickname. I feel like there might be.

be an element of truth to it. Perhaps once. Perhaps once, but you know what, everybody's guilty of it. And those who accuse me are themselves guilty. Not to name names, but. Wow. You're that person who just passes the blame onto someone else. Yeah. The buck doesn't stop here. I'm not the president. The buck doesn't stop here. And that's what it says on her shirt right now. It's a weird thing to have. Does that feel like an inappropriate place? You tell me, you end the podcast, Gileon. I'll answer another question. Okay.

This is fun. I like talking to you. It's been so many years in the making. Why I end this now? This is not, this is an October calendar. You need to get that out of the hat. That is a discarded. This is from the almost violent year calendar.

I had a, oh, really? I love that movie, too. Yeah. Oscar Isaac. Chastain. Favorite Godfather movie. Oh, this is telling. Three, just kidding.

Don't even. I will say it's underrated, though. It's a good movie. Sure. Yeah. There's some great. moments. Two or one. Two. Yeah, I don't know. I can go either way. It depends on my mood. All right. How about the one where they put it in chronic logical order so you don't have to

pick? They've been showing that on HBO. Yeah, I saw it on cable. Yeah. And a lot of, I've been watching a lot of, what was I watching, Cape Fear on Cape Fear. Yeah. I was going to ask you this. You were on Fallon the other day. With Martin Scorses. Didn't get him meet him. No. I was wondering what the protocol is. You know what? I feel like he was ushered in, went on, and was like ushered out, and I want to be like, I'm an excuse, I skip. You know, once again, too shy. I'm a very, I'm a nervous

shy person, so I didn't. Well, he knows that you spill the beans, and he doesn't want to share his. I know all his secrets with me. Because that's what happens when you meet him, is immediately he tells you a terrible secret, and then it's on you to never tell anyone. He's the best, though. I know.

Michael Mann, Lawrence Corset. King of Comedy. Great movie. Great movie. Great movie. Sandra Bernhardt in that film? Amazing. Amazing. Jerry Lewis. Fantastic.

Okay, top. Top. Okay, who were your other top filmmakers? We talked a little Michael. Love Michael, man. Yeah. Love Manhunter. Love Heat.

Yeah. Who would you kill to get into a film of? Who's the director? Who's, come on? You have that list. I'm sure you do. Paul Thomas Anderson? I mean, of course.

Yeah. Magnolia is a next level. I guess the list is too long Your brain is actually imploding and melting Yeah, the list is too long on that one How about people who are dead? Okay How about a, you know who I really love

Is an Ingmar Bergman Nice Who doesn't want to be depressed In Scandinavia Um And let's go with an Agnes Varda Not dead Oh my God, you're

Educate me Check it out Oh, do you like depressing movies? Sure. Okay, she made this film in the 80s called Vagabond, which is about this girl, this girl wandering around the French countryside. Okay.

And I don't think it's giving anything away to say that she freezes to death in a field. Oh. But I remember when I was, you know, in my real run of very depressing films, at one point a director told me I should watch Vagabond, and I was like, oh my God, that film's incredible. I feel like it's begging for a reboot, a Michael Bay reboot. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, she fights, she fights aliens and, you know, sadly, sacrifices herself for humanity. There's an American flag blowing in the breeze at the end. Sure. That can happen. Right? That can always happen. We've ever gone up for a Michael Man, Michael Bay film? I don't think I've ever auditioned for a Michael Bay film.

Well, there's work to be done. Get on it, agents. What's your excuse? yeah is this how you communicate to your agents by a podcast by a podcast they won't take my calls well they got you or you got yourself two seasons of love look at that segue to promote your wonderful well done i'm going to continue binging uh premieres february 19th february 19th go check it out guys and um it's great to see you it's been too long next time i think we should do something stupid and fun and sketchwise great it's a deal deal okay good to see you

You too. You too. I need a glassie or whispering. Hey, Earwolf listeners. This is Hillary Frank from the longest, shortest time, where we ask the hard-hitting questions. What will happen if I don't have a shabre? What does the tooth fairy do with her tooth? I'm either real Batman.

Who's Jesus' grandparent? John Willis, age three. Bringing out the big guns? I'm actually, like, rattled. The Longest Shortest Time. It's the parenting show for everyone. Listen at Longest Shortestime.com, Earwolf.com, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is

This is Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. This has been a Wolfpop production, executive produced by Paul Shear, Adam Sacks, Chris Bannon, and Matt Goreley. For more information and content, visit wolfpop.com. The infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades, or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas,

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