Happy Sad Confused - Graham McTavish

Episode Date: August 12, 2022

He's not exactly a late bloomer as he's been working consistently all his adult life but certainly the last decade has been a good one for Graham McTavish. On this live chat, Josh and Graham discuss everything from OUTLANDER and THE HOBBIT to OUTLANDER and their mutual frenemy Sam Heughan. Plus we dig into the new GAME OF THRONES prequel series, HOUSE OF THE DRAGON! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 X-E-90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer

or go to explorevolvo.com. Ontario, the weight is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget Online Casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips. Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting, signing up is fast and simple. And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best slots and top-tier table games. Make the most of your downtime with unbeatable promotions and jackpots that can turn any mundane moment into a gold

Opportunity at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Take a spin on the slots, challenge yourself at the tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling Problem Call Connects Ontario 1866531-260-19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Graham McTavish from the Hobbit and Outlander to House of the Dragon. Hey, guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Yes, we've got Mr. Graham McTavish on the show today. A first-time guest, though, someone I've done a whole lot with, thrilled to finally, though, have him on the official podcast. more on the Great Grand McTavish in a second. First, let's talk about other things going on,

other stuff I've seen, other stuff I've been up to, bring you up to speed. We were dark last week. I apologize. Post-coma-con guys, I just got like, I don't know. It was a weird time. I was certainly exhausted and overwhelmed by everything that had happened. And then the booking gods didn't shine well on me.

We didn't have a guest for last week. But I'm through apologizing because I'm about to unfurl so many podcast guests, so many cool bookings that you're going to be saying, enough, Josh. Just give me a break. There'll be some weeks maybe with some multiple guests. I have just booked somebody I am so damn excited for. And I know you guys hate it when I tease and I'm not going to reveal anything. Because I don't want to jinx it.

It hasn't happened yet. But I booked somebody that's never done the podcast that I, I can't think of someone, frankly, bigger that I have sought in the acting realm. I'll leave it at that. It's going to be great more on that in two or three weeks. What else? Oh, I want to give a little plug to a great new doc that doesn't need my help, but because it's like dominating the charts right now on Netflix.

It's a train wreck, Woodstock 99. I think it was three parts. I watched it all in one night. a really, I guess I was going to say, an easy watch. Not that it's like all fun, because it gets pretty dark at times, but it is a chronicle, of course, of the Woodstock Festival in 1999 that, you know, if you think the Fire Festival invented festivals that went awry, think differently, because Woodstock 99 certainly had some issues, to say the least.

A friend of mine, a former colleague of mine, was an integral part of this documentary. I think he's the first person you've seen the documentary, David Blaustein, a great guy who's always been really kind to me for years, did a ton on ABC radio, a great entertainment journalist. And back in the day in 99, it was like, I think one of his first, if not first gigs was being at Woodstock, and he's all over the stock. So it's really exciting to see him in it. Check it out for him. He's always great, but also check it out because this is a fascinating chronicle of what went wrong in Woodstock 99. It's also fascinating for me because so much of it involves MTV, which, of course, I didn't join MTV until a few years later, but it's fascinating to see kind of like that last guard of MTV folks that preceded me in the middle of that mad story. So that's my recommendation of the week.

Other things to mention, I have no new live events to announce except to say we're close on a few. So stay tuned to my Twitter and Instagram, Joshua Horowitz. Go to Patreon page, patreon.com slash happy say I confused, because we are definitely going to have some live events to announce very soon in New York City. I'll be moderating something at New York Comic-Con, but even sooner than that, I have a feeling I'll be doing something at the 92-Y. I have another event at Symphony Space in October that will be announced very soon. So a lot cooking. Good time. I've been moderating a bunch.

I did an event with Ron Howard, the director of 13 Lives, which is a film. You should check out on Amazon Prime right now. It chronicles the crazy Thai cave disaster that, I mean, thankfully, had a mostly happy ending. But this is a dramatic retelling that stars Vigo Mortensen and Colin Farrell, Joel Edgerton. But anyway, I did a Q&A with Ron at a guild event in New York City, and it was just lovely to see him. He is as advertised, the nicest guy in the biz. So that was fun. I feel like I did another event recently.

I don't know. Been busy. But, yeah. Also, we have a Comedy Central bit coming very soon that we taped with Mark Wahlberg and Kevin Hart. So stay tuned for that. Okay. Let's talk about the big event today, which is Gran McTavish, who has, as I said, shockingly never done the podcast.

Though we've, of course, talked a bunch. We've done events with him and Sam Hewain. That's the first of many times you'll hear Sam's name invoked today. But I think I actually first met him through Preacher at Comic-Con, but then, of course, got to know him through his Outlander Association and his Sam Association. And now I get it. He's great. He's great.

Not only is a great actor, but he's just like a really intelligent, good-natured, easy guy to talk to. And I had a blast catching up with him. This was actually a live virtual conversation we had, so we're experimenting with new things on the Patreon page, and I'm very excited about it. We did a live conversation, me and Sammy, my trusty producer friend, a couple days ago, would just use the fans on Patreon. And then we went right into this. We did a live version of this podcast where a whole bunch of the Patreon members came in, asked their questions, and just enjoyed it. in that live atmosphere. It's a really cool interface using something called crowdcast, super easy for me and for the fans. And yeah, so if you go to patreon.com slash happy, say I

confused. And if you're at the exclusive shows level or up, you get access, you'll get, you'll have access to certain live events. Certainly the live events with me and me and Sammy talking to you guys. And on occasion, I will try to book a guest live. We'll see. We're experimenting with different models, but just a new way to, you know, give some bang for your buck on the Patreon page. Again, patreon.com slash happy, say I'm confused. Doing a lot of fun stuff there. One more thing to plug, I've launched finally in recent weeks my own YouTube page. It's YouTube.com slash Josh Horowitz. I'll put it in the show notes. Give it a subscribe because we're putting all the old video versions of the podcast, all the old. All the old.

old video versions of Game Night. So after you get those exclusively for a while on the Patreon, they eventually go on YouTube. So there's a very large body of work that is accumulating on the YouTube page very quickly. And it's a really fun deep dive for me, frankly, to look at my old work, but also hopefully for you guys to see some video conversations. Maybe you've never seen in full if you're not on the Patreon. So really happy and excited about what we're doing on the YouTube page, again, YouTube.com slash Josh Horowitz. Check it out. And that's totally free. So, you know, it's a no-brainer. All right. Let's get to the main event. What you're going to hear, and it's going to sound maybe a little different only because this was done live, but the next thing

you're going to hear is me launching in with Graham live for this podcast conversation. And there might be some visual things that are lost in the translation on the podcast, but as always, very little. I think you're going to enjoy it. I know you're going to enjoy it. And I should say Graham was on primarily beyond just entertaining me in the audience to promote his new series, House of the Dragon, which is the Game of Thrones prequel series. I mean, it doesn't get any more high-profile than that. I don't think this one has any chance of not succeeding, given what I've seen of it. I've seen the first episode. It has an amazing ensemble. Matt Smith, who we love, of course, Patty Consentine,

Reese Iphens, the list goes on and on. And it's Game of Thrones guys. And it feels like Game of Thrones, but different. It's epic. It's, yeah, it's going to satisfy. It debuts, I believe it's August 21st on HBO. Check it out. And in the meanwhile, enjoy Mike Chatt with the great Crammitage.

Ladies and gentlemen, of the podcast world if you're listening to us if you're watching us if you're live with us we love you all the more it is i josh harrow it's more importantly it is my guest mr graham mactavish graham welcome to the podcast sir josh always a pleasure to podcast with you if that is indeed a thing it's a verb now yes yes it sounds like a sort of strange sport that's only north of finland or something but yeah it's the one sport i'm decent at actually. That's one more than me.

I do not believe you. I've seen the workouts. It's good to see you, my friend. Thank you for taking the time to do this. I'm so thrilled that we have this live audience watching along with us. If you're live, we love you all the more. If you're watching this in 12 years, we still love you after the apocalypse. We hope you're enjoying this as a nice, you know, distraction. The end of the world a moment when you're looking at this.

Let's look at that podcast again. Exactly. One more time. So let me tell the audience, first of all. We're going to have a great chat today. Graham and I, as we always do. We're going to talk about great many things, including his amazing new series, House of the Dragon,

which is going to have, I think, a sizable number of you very much interested. I've seen the first episode. People might watch it. I have a sneaky suspicion. We're also going to take some questions from you guys. So here's how this is going to work. Some of you are very smart already.

You've seen the ask, question button at the bottom of your screen, click on that ask a question button, write in your question. And if you are so bold, if you feel like it, and you want to be potentially on camera, if we select your question, just write that in the question. Say, cool to be on camera, yes, on camera, just so I know. I don't want to put anybody on the spot, certainly. No, no. We will not put you on this one. No, no. So we'll get to your questions in a bit, but first, let's catch up, Graham, you and I. I feel like you are, you're a pretty busy man. in showbiz,

which is a good problem to have for any working actor. You were just telling me, are we allowed to say what you're working on right now? Oh, yeah. Okay. So you're working on The Witcher right now.

Yeah. I am working on The Witcher, yes. Which has been great, great fun. Really enjoyable that show. Are you generally the kind that likes to be, have work back to back to back? Do you need some downtime?

Well, the thing is, Josh, the thing I've learned over my... immensely long career as Sam would love to remind you of how old I am but I've been doing this for nearly 40 years now and it honestly doesn't matter whether you're busy or not busy you always have this terrible fear this terrible fear I mean I think it was Paul Newman actually who said that he always imagined that somebody was going to come up to him and tap him on the shoulder and say I'm tired I'm sorry it's been a mistake you're terrible right you're awful and Every actor I know believes that, that there's always a little tiny bit of you that is going, you're a complete fraud.

You're a complete fraud. They're eventually going to see through it. And I think it comes with the territory of pretending constantly to be someone else when you're working, that that's going to just come unstuck in some way. Well, not to mention all the years that every actor suffers a rejection. Even the best actors are denied for years. So, like, that's ingrained into you, too, no matter how long. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. And I mean, and that's, you know, in all seriousness, that's one of the reasons I think that that Sam and I wanted to do something like Men in Kiltz, for instance, and write the books. Because you actually, and in his case, you know, the whiskey and all the rest of it, that it takes, you have more control over your life. And certainly, when we were doing men, and killed. One of the things that we loved about it was that we were literally calling the shots. We were, especially in the first season, we were the guys on the ground going, right, let's

shoot this. And then we would just start talking to whoever we were with. But it felt very liberating. Whereas in your regular life as an actor, almost no control, yeah, you're waiting for them to go, it's okay. We'll let you do it for today. For six minutes you can work. Yeah. That strongly, actually, about the, because I didn't realize when you guys first did men and kilts, like just how running gun it was at first, like creating, you basically were creating like a presentation tape to sell to eventually became stars, and you just did it essentially on your own. Yes, we did. I mean, it went from, I mean, I think a lot of people may know this, but it went from him, me having an idea of years and years ago, 30 years ago, about doing DVDs, about clans, and then him ringing me saying, hey, you know, that. thing that you were talking about doing a documentary would you want to do that yes uh let's do it as a podcast no let's do it with gopros on our faces no and then he got um it's incredible i i would

actually love to have tried that just to see what it looked like just a go pro on his forehead right you can't cover the moneymaker though graham for either of you you can't block any part of your face what do you think but he um and then and then sam said look let's just just crew it up and get some of the guys we have from Outlander. And we literally became this weird little dysfunctional group on the road. Charging from one place to another, we had this wonderful producer on it, Michelle Meffin, who helped us enormously with just the logistics of it.

And yeah, we were, run and gun is exactly right. We were, you know, got into the van. He was still hungover. I had no idea. I was very hungover. he was he was technically still drunk i think maybe i'm not sure i mean he's always at a base level there's always like a slight whiskey content in the blood that can't be erased yeah if you absolutely hadn't thought that yeah there's always just a kind of underkind of booze that just follows him around and uh but then we drove straight to a whiskey tasting and they're perfect it's gonna catch

off with them one of these days i hope at least oh it will yes it but it strikes me on a serious note, like, you're on the acting side, because I mean, like, we've talked a bunch in recent years, and I've looked at sort of like your body of work, and you have been working virtually your entire life. But, like, it's fair to say, correct me if I'm wrong, that the last 10 years have been by far the most prosperous, at least in film and TV. You've been doing theater forever, et cetera. But, like, what do you make of that? Has it, does that give you a different perspective when you're a jobbing actor for decades? And then all of a sudden preacher, Hobbit, outlander

the Game of Thrones spinoff like this is the this is the stuff people are aspiring to all their lives and it all kind of has happened to you now yeah no I'm I'm certainly aware of it and I'm

very appreciative of it and all that stuff I mean I think what having a career you know when I did the Hobbit I was I was just about to turn 50 so I got

I got The Hobbit when I was 49. And, you know, I'd obviously be working for the best part of 30 years up until that point. And, you know, and I'd worked. You know, I'd actually always made a living as an actor. But it's a precarious world. But I, so having that context for anything that I'm doing now, you're a, I mean, like, particularly when I did The Hobbit, because that was such a great opportunity.

When I was on set, you know, a lot of people who will remain nameless complained about the costume, the uncomfortable, the prosthetic, the days, the hours, the fighting, the tiredness and all the rest of it. And I never complained because I knew how lucky I was to be standing there doing that, because I knew, you know, I'd had 30 years

of dreaming of doing something like that and for it to be a reality. It was the same when I did Rambo with Stallone. You know, when I'm standing there on set looking at a man who I grew up with as Rambo, you know, I had this complete out-of-body experience on that job where he was talking to me in a take. And I was delivering my lines,

but at the same time, I was aware that there was like a ticker tape saying, you're talking to Rambo. And it was, it was like that Schwarzen in the film, the last action hero where the kid steps into the movie and it was that kind of feeling. And so I'm very appreciative of what I'm doing. And it makes you more kind of energetic for stuff.

So I'm, and Sam, I know actually in a weird way, I'm maybe speaking out of turn, you know, He would maybe say something different, but I know for him that Outlander was obviously a fantastic opportunity. He'd be the first person to admit it. And, you know, it's not like he had some gigantic film and television career prior to that. So he was, he also is aware of the business. And I think both he and I, going back to many kiltz, want to make hay while the sun shines, really. you know it's it's uh we want to keep doing interesting stuff or i certainly do and i know he does

uh and um you know keep keep ahead of them until they catch up with you and go no no back in the box for you it's not going to happen thankfully but the well i've said it before i'll say it again all the best of them have imposter syndrome every every actor worth of salt thinks they're going to have the rug pulled out on them and i don't trust the ones frankly that think they haven't made no no that's the one to worry about no well you have to I think the one thing that you have to have, well, maybe more than one thing, where many things, but one of them is a sort of edge

and a hunger and a sort of that kind of engine inside you that is propelling you forwards. The moment where you just sort of go, well, it's all done, I'm finished, it's all great. I think that's when the wheels will eventually come off. but either that or drug rehabilitation there's years away

years years let's talk can you can you give us a little taste of so men and kiltz season two you shot you shot different locale not in Scotland but a familiar land for you at least new for Sam that's that's right

so I don't think we have a release date yet but I'm hoping relatively soon we'll get some news well they they always keep these things very close to their chest I mean I have no idea when the witch was going to come out. We didn't know when House of the Dragon was going to come out until... And that's only because I know the showrunner.

I think I found out in like May, something like that April. And the same with the Witcher and with many kills the same. So I don't know. I would be guessing that it would come out before the next season of outlander. That would make sense, yes. One drafting off the other, who's, yeah, exactly. So is there more aggravation on one side or the other this time?

What can we look forward to in just in terms of just... Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean... We don't like to see you happy. We want to see you drive each other insane. On the brink of madness, yeah. Yes, yes.

At the edge of the abyss. just that one little one step away staring into the abyss and the abyss happens to be called samuwen yeah those beautiful eyes yeah yeah he um he just insisted on making me more scared that he lives for it i think he lives honestly graham and i and i feel like he lives to torment you and i i mean you are closer with him than i but like i feel like i'm in that nice little like there's something fucked up in him there's something wrong with him he He likes to make his friends feel pain. I'm not giving anything away particularly,

but we do talk at one point during men and killed. So I say, you know, with the whole competitiveness. Yeah. You know, I said to him, I mean, have you always been like this? And sort of this ridiculous, really obsessive, competitive side to him. Right. He said, have you always been like that? And he said, no, no, no, no at all.

I said, so you're not like this with other people. He said, no, no, it's really only you. It's just you. And I quote, I just want, I don't only want to beat you. I want to smash you. Is that the word of a kind person? It's an unwell man. It's an unwell man.

It was an epiphany for me. I realized that I was in a camper van with a lunatic. He was driving. And yeah, my life was literally in his hands. Wow. I'm petrified because when last I saw him, I surprised him in London. I don't know if you saw this, but I so at the Outlander premiere,

we engineered this whole thing where I, we told him I couldn't make it, and then I surprised him in a hotel room with a camera crew, and we had it all on tape and made him, you know, we saw it all. It was beautiful. It was a beautiful thing. I'll share the video with you. What has been superb. And he has promised vengeance and everything you say, John, I'm so, I'm really petrified.

I know somewhere right now he's scheming. Oh, he won't let that go. No. No, no, no. It was the same with, well, essentially, one of the great motivators for making the second season of many kills was that he still hated me for losing golf and rugby. I mean, well, you know the list. It's huge.

Word of it again. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, he lost. Right. Spectacular. Constantly. And then he was forced to be naked into the North Atlantic. And I think that that has just haunted him, really. And I've always imagined that while he was on set, filming Outlander, he'd just be in the corner, like writing lists of things that he wants to do to torment me. And he worked through quite a few of them in this second season, for sure.

Something for us to look forward to at least. You're still here. You're still alive. You're okay. Let's talk a little bit about the new series, which there's obviously a ton of curiosity about House of the Dragon. This is a prequel series. Game of Thrones, a little show that had a bit of a following. I got a chance to see the first episode.

I don't think I can say much, but I think people will not be disappointed. It certainly feels Game of Thronesy, but also introduces this amazing, amazing ensemble of actors. I mean, Patty Constantine, Reese Iphens, Olivia Cook's not even in the first episode. There's a great, great ensemble here. I know. Talk to me a little bit about, look, I mean, when you sign on to something like this, Like, is the job different when you're in a, quote, quote, fantasy world?

It's like the job to, like, ground it in a way, because I think that's what Game of Thrones did very well. And I think the show does too, which is like, yeah, they're dragons, but it has a palpable, I don't know. It's really about family and betrayal and all of that. Yeah, it's a very good, yeah, it's a very good point. And I think it's a danger that that genre could fall into, that it all just becomes terribly kind of. of we are in the fantasy world and everybody talks like this. It's they're people who are experiencing their lives. They're admittedly fictional lives, but they just happen to be surrounded by extraordinary things.

I mean, you know, if you set it during the Second World War, you would be surrounded by extraordinary things as well, just the different kind of stuff. But yeah, you do have to, you do have to ground it. I mean, to some extent, when you're walking into the throne room on House of the Dragon, and there's the Iron Throne at the end, of a stage that, it was the entire sound stage, was that set. So it was enormous.

And I had to enter with Millie, who plays Renier at Young Renair. And we both just thought, my God, you barely need to act. I mean, you're in, this incredible costume, which is somewhat heavy, not too heavy. We've got a giant sword, you're surrounded by enormous statues,

there's the iron throne at the end, it's all lit with flames, and you're like, yeah, it's fantastic, you just, and if you can access that part of yourself, which I think actors love to do, which is really their childish side, it's just a playground really, and you get, well, you have a script,

you get to just play around and be having fun with each other in that extraordinary setting. And it's true of all of those fantasy worlds. Same with The Witcher. Sure. I think one thing I would say about fantasy, possibly more than anything else, and I would include Outlander in this, actually, because there is a big, big kind of fantasy element in Outlander, is that you have a lot of laughs, a lot of. of laughs on set. It actually seems to encourage even more childish behavior.

Is that because of just like the costumes and the absurdity of some situations like, oh yeah, we're all starting at a dragon? This is insane. Come on. Well, I mean, you know, like on House of the Dragon, I remember there was a scene where we encountered one of the dragons and it flies over our head. I mean, it's not giving it anything way. We're there. Wait, there are dragons in House of the Dragon, Graham? You're about to be fired. I know. There's more than one. And there's literally, it was a laser dot, flying over our heads. And the director, who I'd actually worked with many, many years before called Greg Yartanis,

we did a TV series called Empire together. And he said, okay, you know, the dragon's coming. So you need to, you're scared. You need to react. Right. So it's really big. Okay. It's huge.

yes and it's it's flying right over here okay so on action there was a varying degree as to how people reacted some people really went for it right but there's always especially if you're in a group you don't want to you don't want to be the one that completely embarrasses themselves you all have to be at the same level yeah yeah you're weeping uh you know the side of the dragon so i i remember my first take it was more of a head bob. It was more of a kind of like, oh, there's a dragon. Oh, there it is. It's going over there. Some people were like, oh, God. Throwing themselves to the ground. And I thought, too much. That's going too much. So there were all different levels of reaction. And Greg, and I thought I'd done a fantastic job. And Greg came up and said, don't know, Graham, you really need

to react. I went, I was reacting, Greg. He said, no, no, this is terrifying. This is the dragon, and you're seeing it flying over your head. And I go, yeah, well, you know, yeah, but I just don't feel I would be that scared. It's not his first dragon. You've seen others. Exactly. I'm Lord Commander of the King's Guard. I've seen many dragons. Yeah.

But he insisted that I was, I reacted more severely to the sight of the dragon. But that's the kind of thing that you have a huge laugh doing that stuff. Reis fans, particularly, was. It was very, he won't mind me saying this. It was very difficult getting through a seat with this. He was constantly trying to make you laugh, deliberately mangling the lines, calling people by absurd names, even more absurd that they're actual names in the show. Right.

Anything to make you laugh. And we did. Let's practice reacting to a dragon. I want to see if I can do it. Okay. So what level? give me one to ten what level of reaction should we have as we watch this dragon pass over us right now you yeah yeah both of us we're both of us we're both going to see the same dragon passing our screens

okay so i think think okay we're not complete cowards okay uh that's a stretch for me but i'll try it no no no no this is you know this is in the context of the moment obviously in real life you're yeah yeah but but you know we're not complete cowards but we're also not stupid Okay. Again, a stretch, but okay, I'll try it. Yeah, I know. I'm identifying the very two things that you are actually. What I'm known for. Cowardness and stupidity. Yes. A frightened buffoon. You're sounding more and more like your friend all every day.

This is reminding me. Yeah. I'm going for a steady five. Okay. So I'll cue us in. Okay, which direction I'm looking? And it's going to be coming from my right. So, yes, we're both looking in the same direction. Okay. I'll take the glasses off just in case it gets too violent.

So the dragon is coming. Three, two, one. Oh, Josh. What did I do? I just caught it out of the corner of my eye. That was, that was, what was that? Hopefully folks are just listening to this, and it was wasted on them. I don't dare to listen.

They need to know. He is terrible. This is why I still have not gotten my Outlander cameo. I've been campaigning for years. At this point, I'm going to settle for men and kiltz. Reality is where it's at. No, seriously, I would love to see that. I think what you need to be, if you were doing Outlander,

I think you need to be the sort of the village drunken idiot. that the camera I mean you can be seated for it so you don't need to do any walking. Oh, thanks. Yeah, good. So just like give you like a big mug of ale or something like that, a big slouchy hat, a bit of a plaid.

And then people are walking past you and then they look down, the camera catches you on your left and you just say, I don't know, morning, Jimmy. see if you can morning Jimmy okay you look like you're having a stroke

I had the right mug for it and everything you had the right mug although I guess to be fair in an outlander scene you wouldn't have a mug that says outlander on it that would be a little odd that might take people out of the though if we had that

yes that we had branded like Sam was drinking from a bottle of Sassanak whiskey during a scene. I wouldn't put it past him. It's going to happen at some point. Well, he did it in every scene in men and kilts.

Right. I couldn't believe it. Every single time we stopped, he'd go, sure, any chance we could get this? And I said, mate. Shameless. It's not an extended commercial

for your whiskey brand. Anyway, isn't it? That's all it is for him now. It's one big whiskey ad. I'm going to get some questions from our audience. Let's see. Okay.

Sondra wants to know Will you be playing any part in the Outlander prequel? Any chance of a young version of your character? It's the parents, as you know. I mean, you know, it's obviously I look so young. No makeup required, yep. No makeup required. I don't know.

Would it be a teenage dougal? I mean, it would be a stretch for me to play myself as a teenager, but I'm always willing to try. Okay. Fair enough. The old college try. Linda wants to know what is the project that you've been working on in Montana

I've been curious about that too you spent so much of your summer in Montana right yeah yeah it was a great movie it's called somewhere in Montana and it is a modern day it's a ranch western kind of film I play the rancher

a guy called John Alexander and he without going into the whole thing what I loved about it is that It's a film about tolerance and listening to others, really. That there are two groups of people represented in the film that are very different to each other in terms of how they view the world, et cetera, et cetera.

And while neither of those groups particularly ends up thinking, oh, you're right, I'm wrong. Because they get to know each other, they respect each other. And I think one of the reasons I was so keen to do it, is that it contains within it a really, really important, timely lesson, or not a lesson, just a comment really on the world, which is it's okay to not agree with everybody and for people not to agree with you as long as you treat each other respectfully. And that's something that I worry about in the world that we're living in at the moment. And this film really, really addresses it

in a very clever way. Yeah. Not in a kind of schmaltzy way. It's there. You know, you're like, nobody's shying away from anything. It's really good. So I had a wonderful experience, and I loved Montana. I just fell in love with the place.

That's all it was gorgeous. Well, I mean, you're spot on. I mean, obviously we've seen, we talked about sci-fi and fantasy. Genre always is just a prism by which we can look at the world. And Western is nothing, if not one of our great genre. is so makes total sense. One of the great American genres, yeah.

All right, I'm going to invite Karen on screen. Karen, you have a question. I hope you're prepared. Let's see if this works. Here we go. Oh, boy. Let's see if this is my first attempt. Wish me luck.

I wish Karen look. Rather you than me. Yeah, I know. We never get to see Karen if I was doing this. Karen, are you there? If you don't pop up, I'll just ask your question for you, Karen. Don't worry. Oh, geez.

Oh, that's happening. Oh. Hi, Karen. Welcome. Hi, thank you for having me. Of course. What's your question for Graham? My question was, if you're going to be writing a memoir like Sam Hewin did. Am I going to be? Yes.

Well, it's definitely crossed my mind. I think, you know, what I'm interested in, if I was to do that, is not so much a kind of chronology of experience, but really just an examination, I suppose, of what it is to do the kind of thing that I've done as an actor. It's a very strange world and a very, you know, I think there are perceptions about the acting business that are not correct.

Um, you know, I think that there's a, there's a sort of, there's a glamour attached to it and all the rest of it. And there are glamorous things attached to it. That's true. But there's also all sorts of other stuff. I'm actually reading at the moment, David Nivens. Oh, that's a famous one I feel like. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, decades and I finally got around to reading it. And, and that's a great, great memoir. Because he's so, he's honest. He's just honest. And I think that's the key. to be honest with yourself and in doing so providing something to other people to read that is truthful and I think that's true of of any creative endeavor to be honest acting you know you do it I think the best way of describing it is if I was to do it I would be doing it for myself and in doing that hopefully other people might be interesting was that like if I was talking to you when you first started acting and presumably that was in theater I would guess back in the in the early days like what was the ambition what was the dream back then I mean was it I mean was there an actor on the pedestal was there a career to aspire to I mean what were you

thinking was it a life in the theater what were you thinking well yeah you know yeah yeah it's interesting because I think really if I'm honest when I started I mean the first job I I did actually was, I was an extra on a TV show called The Master of Ballantray, which is a very famous Scottish novel by Robert Louis Stevenson. And Michael York and Timothy Dalton were the leads. And I had like a day, two days on it or something. I was so excited. I absolutely loved it.

I loved the costumes. I mean, and actually, ironically, it's set in the same period as Outland. So, weirdly enough. Yeah, it's kind of odd. I hadn't actually thought about that until that moment. But that was in 1983 or something. And I was so excited. My father actually took a photo of me.

He froze the video. And there was me and Michael York on screen together for like a nano second and he took a picture. And I still have a picture. But I was, I loved, I loved film and TV. And I was a huge Clint Eastwood fan. Huge. You know, he was my idol, really.

And I used to stand in front of the mirror. And try and try and make myself look like him. I would furrow my brow, I would do that. And, you know, when I was 12, and it was pathetic. But so really, if I'm honest, in answer to your question very long and why I'm saying it, my ambition always lay more in film and television than in theatre. Don't get me wrong, I love theatre, and I've loved doing theatre, and I've been really lucky in the work that I've been able to do, especially in Scotland. I got to be in all sorts of shows that I wouldn't have been able to be in.

And I just loved working. I loved the process. I loved the collaboration. That's what I really enjoyed. It was never particularly motivated by all those sort of slightly more venal things like, you know, fame and money. you know, glory, awards or anything like that. I just, I mean, everybody fantasizes about going to get an Oscar, but, you know, to be honest with you, I don't anymore. I don't think about that stuff. I just want to do interesting work, and that's what's always motivated me. And it just so happens that for the last 16 years,

which is the last time I was on stage, it's all been on film and television, but it's been you know it's great you know you get to i've been a roman i've been a highlander i've been a dwarf i'd be you know and those are the things to go back to that whole childhood thing yeah that's what you all dream of when you're children being a cowboy you know uh and so all of those moments um were very meaningful to me uh as as as sort of fulfillment of dreams i suppose and that's I think as long as you stay a dreamer as an actor, I think you won't go far wrong. Do you have a, I've been asking folks on the podcast the last couple of years about comfort movies.

Just off the top of your head, is there a movie that you would deem a comfort movie for you? It could be an Eastwood movie or anything that you've returned to that you find centers you, calms, you brings you back to childhood, whatever comfort means to you, something that jumps out? Yeah, well, there's a few for different. reasons, I suppose. The Princess Bride is a, I love the Princess Bride. If I met Carrie Elwhose or Mandy Tinkin or, and actually I did meet, oh my God, I'm going to forget her name now. Well, Robin, right, Penn? Yes, Robin. Yes. I met her when, and it was a very strange moment, actually. I was doing the finest hours and her then partner, Ben Foster, was in the finest hours.

Yes. And we were in, we were all in a house. in Chatham, in Massachusetts. And I was in the bedroom upstairs. Everyone was downstairs, I just wanted to be alone. And I was reading Carrie Alvers's memoir. The Princess Bride memoir. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was reading that. Great book. Reading away, you know, reading about Robin and blah, blah, blah, shut the book, thought, oh, I'll go out and say hi. And there was Robin Wright sitting in the living room. And I was like, and I was so, I couldn't tell her. I couldn't. You're like hiding the book. You're like, never mind.

I couldn't, but I just thought, might be strange. So the Princess Bride, definitely. I've watched that many times. Mouse Hunt. Have you seen Mouse Hunt? Wait, Mouse Hunt, the Gore-Ribinsky movie? With Nathan Lane. Yeah.

And Lee, what's his name? I know exactly who you mean. Christopher Walken. I love that film so much. Random but amazing. I love it. I've watched it with kids. I've watched it.

I've probably watched that at least six times. It's such a lovely movie. And for any of you who haven't watched it, do watch it. And I won't spoil anything about it. It's just a delight. So that, and then completely the other way. Yeah. Zoothe.

Oh, Michael Kane? Is that? That's Michael Kane's first film. Yes. Wrote, sorry, produced and starring Stanley. Um, Baker, Stan Baker, uh, written and directed by Cy Enfield, uh, all shot in South Africa with the Zulu nation involved, the grandson of King Chetawayo, who was the person at Rourke's Drift. I mean, I'm huge into history and all over there.

Yeah, yeah, that's all. That's all. It's an incredible episode in history. And, uh, I love that film. I watched that probably a dozen times. And it doesn't matter. The music, the performances, the Technicolor, big screen, oh, it's fantastic. I love it. Those are great. Michael Kane has a good memoir or two, as I recall as well.

Indeed, indeed. Oh, right. Kay has a question here. What will be your next mega franchise? They're greedy. They want more. We got Hobbit. We got Outlander.

We've got Witcher, House of Dragon, Castlevania. What's the ultimate for you? Yeah, let's think. So, Graham. Yeah, exactly. We haven't done. I mean, in the voiceover world, you've covered some, like, Star Wars and Marvel, but, like, live action-wise, you haven't.

That's true. That's true. Yes, that's true. My eldest daughter is obsessed with the idea, the idea of me being in a Marvel project, obsessed. She, I mean, barely a week goes by where she's saying, you know, have you got into a Marvel project yet? I'm like, no, no, I'm not, no. I'm busy, you know, one day, you never know.

So, yeah, that would be, that would be amazing. Amazing. I obviously I grew up like everybody else with that world. You know, in the whole Spider-Man franchise, I mean, I was a huge Spider-Man fan when I was a kid, those kind of comics. Star Wars as well, yes, I was a huge, huge Star Wars fan. You know, those TV series spin-offs, I think, have been really, really amazing. So I'd, you know, that kind of world. Or indeed, this is what I think as well, a world or a story that. that hasn't been written yet, you know? There's out there somewhere, at this moment, there is somebody writing something that is just gonna blow everybody away. And it might not happen for five years or whatever, but it's gonna be amazing.

And that's the great thing about this industry. You know, there's so many people. I have a really good friend, actually, who I met him, he was a barista in Santa Monica. And he used to serve me coffee and we got talking a lot and we became friends, And he is now writing for a Marvel movie. He was an aspiring writer, and he is now writing it.

And I love that. I love that, you know, there he is working hard and everything like that. And then that dream, that world came true for him. And so there are people, as we speak, that are either about to write something or in the middle of writing something that's going to be truly incredible. Amazing. Do you still have to audition? at this point, Graham?

Is the body of work speak for itself? Are you, like, are you like game? Or is it kind of like, look at my 1203 IMDB credits? No, I honestly, I mean, if they want me to do us, I mean, nowadays it seems to be just self-tapes. That's what we do. I don't, you know, I haven't met another human for these sort of things for a very long time.

Sometimes there are offers, which is all obviously very, very nice. and sometimes not, but I love, I've always loved, and it's a sort of arrogance, I suppose, but it's also what motivated me when I first went to America was that I always wanted the opportunity, just the chance to show people what I could do. Yeah. That's all I wanted. Just put me in the room, let me try. If you don't like it, that's fine, but just let me try.

And so I've always carried that with me that if I'm given the chance, then, well, then it becomes out of my hands. But I've always wanted to have the chance. So I'm not fussy about, you know, somebody says, well, we really want to see, we want to meet Graham or we want him to self-tape. I'm not going to go, oh, no, no, no, I don't do that. I absolutely.

I don't mind at all. I'm curious because, look, we've talked about, like, these major kind of franchises with these built-in kind of audiences, and you've been in some of the biggest, literally, that exist. And yet, like, I've met you through Outlander, which is, has a very sizable audience, but it's not the Hobbit audience. It's not the Lord of the Rings in terms of size. But it is, I would argue, in terms of passion and in terms of just a, a, and I say this is a nicest way,

obsession. And I've, I've experienced that on the periphery. Do you feel that, too? Like, do you feel a difference in the kind of fandom that Outlander has brought you as opposed to just the volume that something like Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit brought you. Sure. Yes. I would say yes. I don't think I've ever encountered a fan base that is as dedicated as the Outlander fan base. And it's great. You know, it's a wonderful thing. I mean, you know, mostly if people speak to me out in the street or whatever, they talk about Outlander. sometimes they will really surprise you and talk to you about something completely I remember you in sounds like Red Dwarf and I'll go, oh yeah, I mean that was

24 years ago and so it varies but Outlander fans are they are incredibly loyal and supportive and that's you know I know Sam myself anybody actually Duncan Katrina anybody involved in it

is really really appreciable and don't take it lightly either because you know you have to be you have to be creative yourself you know you have to have one half of your brain when you're doing for instance something like outlander when we were filming it we had to make it our own you know i had to make doogle the dougal i wanted him to be with collaboration with other people but at the same time you are aware that there is literally a group of millions of people who have a very strong idea who dole or Jamie or Claire is and you have to be mindful of that so it's a it's a it's a tricky line to walk but um i think that on the whole the the way that it's been handled by the writers and the producers

and the cast and everything and the fans together that we've all we've all moved forward together with the show, which is really remarkable, actually. It's been fun, especially, like, look, at first it was basically Sam and Katrina that I got to know, and then, like, as the years have gone on, they finally let me meet their friends. I feel like they were just, like, trying to keep me from everybody, and now I appreciate what a great ensemble this is, and how you all are just, like, such a great, fun group and have just, like, senses of humor and the right attitude, and it's just, it's a joy to... Well, that was the thing when we did it.

when we first did it, you know, partly because it was essentially Katrina's first job. Right. It was, it wasn't Sam's first job, but it was his first major, real big role. And we were all thrown in together. And that created immediately a very tight group. And so all those Highlanders, Katrina, Lottor, you know, Gary, all of these guys together. we really bonded and were working with each other. So there was no kind of hierarchy at all,

which always makes for a much better product. Are you already local? We don't know when the next season of Men and Kiltz is, but are you, do you have the third location in mind? Do you think back to Scotland? Do you think another locale? Have you decided or still deciding or what? I think, you know, to do a third series,

I mean, I think the logical place would be North America. I would really be keen, I know, and Sam, I know it's the same. I think we're both very keen on the idea of exploring the Canadian-American links there. You know, it's just about navigating through the country. I mean, when I was in Montana, I met a Native American gentleman called Donald McDonald. and he is descended from the McDonald's of Glencoe. There was a huge settlement in that area of Montana, the direct descendants of McKeon of Glencoe, the famous massacre.

They came over and settled in that part of Montana. And there are so many wonderful stories to tell of the interaction and the relationships between Native American tribes and Klansmen, Highlanders coming over in the 18th and 19th centuries. I think that's a, there's so much to talk about with that. So that would be where I would not want to. Sold. Hey, it's more convenient for me to crash.

It's perfect. Look, I think the bonus of this conversation today, look, the, the reason to do it was to catch up with you, and I always love chatting with you. You're always so generous with your time and good-natured and good-humored, and I love it. But the bonus, honestly, is just infuriating. and how jealous he's going to be when he sees that we've been chatting for an hour today. That's great, isn't it? That's what gets me up in the morning.

It's a win-win. It's a total win-win. I mean, I woke up this morning, and I thought, today's the day that I managed to just rub it in his face again. And I know it's petty. I know. I know. You've got to play on the level he's playing on.

He's that. We have to be that. He brought us to this point. And so we're down there in the mud with him. look at this Sam this is a love affair right here and you can't touch it yeah we're really happy without you Sam I'm actually just waiting

and that's one of the reasons I've turned my phone off because I know that you can't just shut up nobody cares you're so bold you're old he's probably watching us right now congratulations sir thanks for taking the time out enjoy the rest of your run on The Witcher I can't wait to see that.

And I know the audience is going to be thrilled with this one. House of the Dragon, it really lives up to the pedigree. I don't want to tempt fate, but I truly believe that people will love this show. Has another one. I was going to say, I didn't even mention my beloved Matt Smith, I'm obsessed with. He's amazing in the show. Are you also obsessed with Matt Smith? You're obsessed with quite a lot of people.

I have a problem if you haven't figured it out. I mean, just off camera, are there kind of little, like a shrine? I probably have other incriminating things near me, but I'm not going to show you. I'm just curious. No, Matt is also a very, very nice guy, very funny. And we had enormous laughs. His sword is called Dark Sister. In the show or just? Yes, in the show. It's mentioned many times. It's called Dark Sister. And every single time, and I'm not ashamed to admit this, that every single time, he would appear with the sword, I would go, I would stand there and wait for him to pass and go, well, watch out, here comes to start, sister. Yes. And every time he would laugh, it's pathetic. We're all just children. We're really just still children.

This is the atmosphere that we created on set. It was a childish, very, very sad atmosphere. Thank you all for watching today. We'll see you on the next one. And my biggest thanks of all, of course, the one and only, Mr. Graham McTavish. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much, Josh. Always a pleasure.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pleasure to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times.

And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits.

Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast.

And don't forget to hit the follow button. Thank you.