Happy Sad Confused - Guy Ritchie

Episode Date: August 17, 2015

English filmmaker Guy Ritchie has a style all his own. Guy joins Josh to talk about the impact of Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels had on his career, Snatch bringing him to the next level, working on Swept Away with Madonna, and his new film The Man from U.N.C.L.E. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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this month we're all cowering in fear at the return of the villains So join Luke Crate as they celebrate everybody's darker side with epic items from Marvel an exclusive DC figure, a unique wearable item that they've never put in a crate before. By the way, this crate is a huge one and much more. It's good to be bad, guys, right?

You have until the 19th at 9 p.m. Pacific to subscribe and receive that month's crate. But when the cutoff happens, guys, just know, that's it. It's over. You missed out. So go to hookcrate.com slash happy. Enter code, happy, to save $3 on your new subscription today. Hey, guys. Welcome to another edition of happy, sad, confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. If I sound like I have more gravitas this week, it's only because I have a cold and I'm trying to get sympathy from you. Hi. Joel, do I have your sympathy? No. Making his third appearance on the podcast, give it up for Joel. Hey. Oh, God. um welcome to the show guys for those that have been uh listening to happy second fused for the last year plus you're awesome for the year over a year did you do a big anniversary show our first no we didn't do an anniversary show i actually don't know when the official anniversary is definitely over a year kate mara was the first guest and um i don't know if we've come a long way as i say that because i'm still just sitting in an office with crude microphones in front of me and you're here so well i mean that's a perspective from kate mara to you joel we're very similar we're very we're tiny yeah we have lovely hair yeah uh that's about

it that's switched into a train by Kevin Spacey yeah mine actually happened in real life it's a funny story we don't have time for it long story well next time next time in the podcast um Joel was joining me in the podcast this week uh as we are about to introduce my conversation that was just transpired with mr guy richie which was awesome guy richie I kind of hoped he would be. I've interviewed him a couple times. He's one of those filmmakers that, well, he certainly, I don't know, he doesn't have a reputation, but he's got a style, certainly.

I think, I think for good or for bad, and I think it's for good. You know a Guy Ritchie film when you see one, that, that flare, that energy, that he's brought to Sherlock and lock stuck into smoking barrels, and his new film, Man from Uncle, is very identifiable. And, of course, it didn't hurt that he was married to Madonna for a few years. No, I don't see. I mean, that definitely helped his filmmaking. Is that what you're saying? Well, no, meaning his celebrity. Yeah, yes. I'll put him on the, from the mainstream. He was an indie darling and then he really transitioned. Exactly. And this conversation was cool because we talk a little bit. He's super, super frank and super open about his trajectory in terms of lock stock was obviously the film that made him a big time filmmaker to be reckoned with. And then, um, uh, snatch, which, you know, went to the next level. You get Brad Pitt in your movie. Suddenly you're, you know, being noticed by a lot of people. And then we even talk about swept away, which was kind of his

reckoning, speaking of Madonna, which probably still wounds him to this day a little bit. But actually not. You'll hear in the conversation, he's got a good attitude about the ups and downs he's had. And I think he's experiencing a good and up right now with Man from Uncle, which, you know, I don't know, I mean, as we tape this, this is before the movie is open. So I don't know how well it's going to do. I hope it does well, because it's legitimately, and the marketing's been good, but I think it's actually even a better film than the marketing would indicate. It's based on 60s TV series, which I feel like is almost weirdly the biggest crutch it has to overcome because do you know, did you ever heard of Man from Uncle? No, I don't have any recollection of Man from Uncle.

And also I feel like anything you've heard about in the recent pop culture history of things being based on a 60s TV series, haven't really done that well. No. It's strange. I mean, I don't know what the solution is. I mean, it's a good place to start with the film because basically the concede of The film is, you know, they're spies from different countries, right? Like Napoleon Solo, great name. That's Henry Cavill, American kind of secret agent. And then Army Hammers is like a Russian spy and they have to, you know, through the Cold War, come together and fight for a unified cause. But the title is kind of meaningless, I feel like, to audiences today.

But get past that and you'll see a really slick, stylish and fun spy thriller, much different than Mission Impossible. Like in the same month, we have two really good spy movies that are, much different from each other. And I have to say, really good performances from, and I don't know why I'm necessarily surprised, but Man of Steel, I think, was like, you know, we saw Henry in a certain context. He was like that stoic, you know, Superman. There's only so much dynamism that Superman has. But this character, he did a really good job with really suave and sophisticated and cool. And it's a good movie star role for him. So good for him and good for Army to find a bounce back after Wood Ranger as well. Right. And I love his Russian accent in the trailers. He's Russian accent

It's good. I mean, I don't, I'm not one to judge, but it's not, it's honestly not, like, super distracting. Is it better than De Niro in Rocky and Bullwinkle? It's very much inspired by that. Okay. Yeah. And, uh, and, and the women in and are great, uh, Alicia Vakander, previous podcast guest, uh, is awesome in this, has her great year continues. So, um, this, this was a blast. I mean, this is the exactly the kind of filmmaker. Um, I love to have on the show because he's very frank. And we've even geeked out about Mad Max for a little bit. So you know he's a good guy. If he, he, if he loved Mad Max. Did he like it? I take it? He loved it. Okay. He loved it.

Spoiler, sorry. Although he didn't know. I felt like our one dividing line was, um, he didn't know the movie time after time, which is a great little movie from like the early 80s, late 70s with Malcolm McDowell. It's a, Jack the Ripper. Yeah, exactly. Thank you.

I, thank you, Joel. I wish you were here when we were recording the podcast. I was. You just didn't, I was just staring blankly and silently at the back of Guy Ritchie's head. That's weird because the office is so small. I don't know how I would have missed you. I can be very nimble. and slight. That's disgusting. Let's look at

some questions via Twitter from Christina aka, so when you read a Twitter handle do you read the name that pops up or the at do you know what I mean? Do you like at so and so? So like for instance Christina who I'm about to read her question see it says Christina yes and then it says at miss hook 007 which by the way is a great handle which would you which do I go by you're saying at miss hook or just say

Miss Hook-O-7. This is what I'm saying, Joel. Well, I feel like the convention is... Or do I call her Christina? I think you've already addressed her every way possible. But I guess for the next one, what do I do? I think Christina at Ms. Hook-O-7. That's a mouthful.

It's a lot to put on me. Look, you want to give her promotion, and you want to address her by her human normal name. Okay. Not her internet name. Hi, human, Christina at Miss Hook, uh, 00-7. Uh, your question for me is, hi, do you think Zelina has a true love? Big hug from Paris, exclamation point.

Thank you. Big hug right back from New York City from me and Joel collectively. I'm more like a wave from a distance. Nothing personal. It's just, you know, I don't know you. Okay, a big hug from me, a distant, aloof wave from Joel. Thank you.

Do I think Zalina has a true love? Absolutely. I'll confess when I look this up a minute before we started the podcast, I didn't know what Zalina was. So Zalina, I guess, is a shipping thing going on with once upon a time, which, for those that don't know, my brother, a little promotion for my brother, Adam Harrowitz, Adam Harowitz, L.A. on Twitter, creator, co-creator of Once Upon a Time.

I get a lot of tweets of people about Once Upon a Time. I think, I don't know if they assume that I am my brother or that I just know everything about the show or... I assume that you just call your brother after the show and... Yeah, we just talk for a couple hours. No, I do like the show, but I can't claim to be a true expert. But sure, I think Zelina, I feel like everybody's got a true love and Zelina's no different. I hope so. I'm always rooting for true love.

I also, I thought maybe it was Alfred Molina and Zoe Saldana was the ship that they were doing. It's not. Unfortunately, it's not. That's only my personal fan fiction. You should start that up right now. Is it Albert Molina in the guise of Dr. Octopus? Yeah.

Dr. Octopus and Natiri fanfic. Yeah, and then he does say brilliant but lazy. Somewhere in there. What else to talk about? Oh, some cool stuff just to viewable on the website at MTV.com and MTV's YouTube page. It did some fun stuff this week.

with Kristen Stewart and Jesse Eisenberg did a second go-round with them for American Ultra which is a super fun kind of stoner action movie that was good How many years have you been talking

to Kristen Stewart? I mean virtually since I came here It's been I often say And I kind of want substantiation I think I've interviewed Kristen Stewart more than any other human being on the planet And I'm not saying that to brag

But I want If you need some distinction On the planet Earth That might be mine Congratulations What's yours Joel I've, I'm the, I guess I'm the, you know, nothing. I couldn't even, I.

Joel, master of improv. Here's the thing. Yeah. I just yes-handed that. That's the first thing. Second thing is, I just hate myself. So I have nothing to, bring us down. I do, you know what?

Don't do it. I guess that that's all the preamble for this week. Thank you, Joel, as always, for joining us. You really, you killed it again. Thank you. Join us next week. Oh, another cool guest. Should I say who?

I'm not going to say who it is. It's a really good actor. Oscar nominated actor. But I don't want to say it because sometimes these things fall through. Trust me. Really good actor coming up next week on Happy Sank Infused. But in the meanwhile, let's talk filmmaking. Good Guy Ritchie.

With a foolish class. I even got into the first one of the third. Good job. Enjoy. Thank you very much for having me His voice just went much cooler

We were just having We were having a very casual We were up there We were to go We were dishing on really On summer movies But now we're on message No congratulations again

I got a chance to see your film The other day I really enjoyed it man It's a good ride Where are you at right now In your head Because there's a lot going on In your life

Between rapping a film Getting Married And putting out a film Into the world I oscillate between Thinking too much about this and caring too much about this to not and I can tell you I much prefer the latter than the former

the anxiety I'm pretty cool if I say this about myself about making the movie and then I don't sleep for a week when it comes to the release of a movie and I'd like to sort of transcend that anxiety but I'm not sure if you ever can you just get your knickers in a twist and don't sleep at night

were you like that from the beginning was there something I was much worse in the beginning. Oh, really? I think there might be ignorance in the beginning of like, oh, I'm going to ace this. I know what I'm doing. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, there is, I mean, but if you, you know,

these movies take it, say, a couple of years to make. If you think you're down to a week's anxiety out of two years, you know, that's not bad. Yeah. And then, you know, when you first start, no, there's much more anxiety. So it diminishes. And then, as I say, you oscillate between getting your knickers in a twist and not.

Yeah. So it's not like you're always, but you can feel your body contract and then it relaxes. It contracts and relaxes all about the anxiety of the release. And your intelligence gets the better of you sometimes. You know, in a bigger picture, this all means nothing. And again, you oscillate between big picture and small picture. In some ways, maybe the timing is good and that obviously just got married and you literally

just wrap this another ginormous movie. Maybe you've had less time to obsess. Yeah. All of that's good, actually. Distractions are good. Although it's probably not the solution to the problem, it's certainly some version of a Band-Aid. Right, right. So have you been, we were talking before about, like, there's a spade of really good, actually, spy films this year. Did you view that, including one from a good friend of yours, Matthew Vaughn, which was excellent Kingsman, but couldn't be more different night and day in terms of vibe?

Was that something that you guys talked about? Were you aware of this? Is that something that, again, you overthink, oh, God, we're in the middle of all these other movies that are in the same genre, or you're not? you're like, oh, fuck it, I got, I've got my own thing. I'm confident. Oh, we're allowed to fuck it on air, right? I see. I'm setting the vibe for you, so you know. Because I feel like you'll be more comfortable knowing that you can.

Right. Now I know where we are. Yeah, it's funny. When you choose these projects, you don't really take into consideration. I mean, as we were discussing before, the spy genre seems to be like it's a crowded market at the moment. And I suspect that all of us, the voice. The Vaughn film, Mission Impossible, us. Got Bond coming and Christmas or a number.

Whatever that is. Good luck with that, guys. And I think we all occupy a very different space. I mean, we're different in the sense that we're in the 60s. And we've got a couple of spies. There you go, trying that. Just by sure number you're winning. So, no, it feels like we occupy a different space.

So that hasn't really got in the way. Vaughn was shooting next door to us actually when we were making this. So we nip over there for lunch and a bit of chit-chat. And I mean, we watched poor old Vaughnie go through the because we went through prep together. They were in next door offices too.

Right. And we watched the finances come and go in that movie. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. And to be fair to Vaughn, he styled it out nicely, didn't they? He just, you know, he rode that very nicely. I mean, like two weeks before they had no money.

Really? Yeah. So we watched all that anxiety and then, you know, it turned out to be a massive success for him, which is very good. So what function do you guys serve in each other's life creatively at this point? Do you give notes on each other's work? No. No, no thing at all. Really? No, because the thing about you're either producer or you're either director. Once you have two directors, you've really got nothing to talk about. You know, producing directors have quite a lot to talk about. Directors, directors, like, hello, mate. Yeah, look nice. Nice. Like where you put the camera there. Congrats. Yeah. And it's not a hand and a glove. It's two hands or two gloves. It's interesting. In reading about you, and I've talked to obviously many filmmakers over the years, I feel like you come at it at filmmaking from a very healthy perspective in that in terms of the actual production of a film, I feel like a lot of people and actors included, they almost feel like they have to be tortured. It has to be painful. It has to be something like a process, a gaunt what they have to go through. And you come at it from something where it's like, you, fair to say, you don't come at it. from that perspective. I do not come at it from that perspective and I'll tell you what, it tickles me

watching other people that forced themselves into that cauldron. Why would you? As if that helps the process in the end? Well, I mean, you can just hit your head against a wall if it, if you want to or you don't have to. And we chose the latter and it does. We have worked with people actually. We've worked with actors that just didn't feel as though they could give a performance until they'd hit themselves very hard with a hammer five minutes before. But some people are just built that way. What do you, so if you've cast an actor already that's in that mindset, how do you? They don't let you know that. They don't let you know.

Until they get on set and you see their brooding in the corner and they're. Oh, yeah. And now it's happened to us where we were a week in. and the actor was putting on a fabulous facade and then a week in we started to smell a rat and we quickly started making phone calls to see if we could replace this individual because we could see that we were

and it was a long haul and it was a big role and it was just going to be a pain in the ass and there was there was the crossing the rubicon moment and just before we crossed it we we sniffed around and all these other actors that we'd that were up for the role we suddenly were making emergency calls to find out if they were still available so hypothetically are you around yeah you had it has to be all hypothetical um so all those phone calls were made and then you just

they're all busy and then see stuck through it and then you have no choice and then you open up their trailer in the morning, and there they are with a bleeding hammer in their hands, and they're unconscious on the trailer floor. Wait, is this metaphorical, or is this literal? Not really. And then they drag themselves onto set, what's left of them, and then they, and then what they can't, after they've done a proper job with themselves on the hammer, then they turn the hammer on everyone else.

And you just have to put out of that for months, and it's a sickness. it's a proper dysfunctional illness that some people are afflicted by and you would have thought and yet tom hardy is man max now congratulations i thought i thought it was just i toss one out there see what happens i didn't say it was male by though no just fishing just fishing always um so there are it's a funny thing i think when you decide um to go into this business there's there's a motive somewhere there's a seed there's a genesis and depending on what that genesis was whether it came with levity or it came with weight is dictates about which route you're going to take in this game and from the beginning

I always thought filmmaking should be fun and a privilege in a way it's sort of like I still see it something like a sort of school project where someone said to you the most fun that you ever had school was sort of doing projects right and someone said look go make here's a video camera and uh here's 25 bucks and you and then you four you're going to be director you're

going to produce so and you're going to be the actors now go make something yeah you know and you go right got 24 hours you're going to cobble it all together and see what we can get and it still feels like that to me filmmaking um it's just you get a bit more than 25 bucks and you get a couple more actors and it feels like the sort of the grown up version of of a school project. And I think if you can hold on to that, then it's the entire process is pleasurable. I mean, I cannot tell you how pleasurable I find it.

The only time that I don't find pleasurable is the anxiety like around this time now. This is the moment right now. Yeah, but I tell you what, you know what? Like I say, if that's the price, it's worth it. It's worth it. Yeah. I mean, I mean, compared to the poor guy that's that happened. hammering themselves, right?

And then they hammer their way through the entire process. And there's something self-destructive about that. They're trying to bring on their own demise before the demise is brought on themselves. Right. I'm going to be in control of the situation to a degree, which is a little fucked up in the head. But whatever gets you through the day. There you go with that naughty word again. Sorry.

Look, I've been at MTV for years where I haven't been able to curse. So once I got a podcast, I'm like, I'm going to fucking curse as much as I can. Okay. I'll get there in a second one, build off some courage. I think you can handle it. But it's also interesting you've been able to navigate that, and that still comes through that kind of that joy that's on set to these films that are not independent films.

These are studio films. These are high budget films. And it seems like you seamlessly made that transition. We're able to retain that spirit that was in Lockstock through Sherlock films, through this one. And that's a tough road for a lot of filmmakers. Well, it's been a journey. It's been a journey.

And it hasn't all been pretty my journey. You know, I came out of the slips quite, rapidly and I'd argue really too rapidly because people knew who you were and I was a relatively inexperienced filmmaker and what I'd rather have done is come up slightly slower yeah um and exercised more um more of a creative expression yeah in all sorts of genres which ironically I'm sort of doing now and so I I would have felt more experienced and And then what happened was, I came out quite fast, and then I thought, well, I want to try the stuff. You're getting opportunity.

It's hard to say no. Hey, I'll give you some more tools here. And there's all sorts of other things that happened, too. There's strange psychological things that happened to you because all of a sudden, you're making money that you never thought you'd ever make. And in a weekend, like when Lockstock came out, I made more money in that first weekend than I ever thought I'd make in my entire life. And the weekend before, I mean, I was on 200 bucks a week previously. to that and then that plays with your nut and it plays with your nut because you think because we're all conditioned to believe that money is going to take care of all of our issues

don't dissuad us of the sky please and then you find you've still got that itch and that you cannot scratch it by the way it does take care of a lot of issues but it doesn't take care of the fundamental issue so and then you have all sorts of issues with that I mean it's a whole fucking grow in oh there we go yes welcome it's a whole comfortable growing process right so you're growing at the same time you're you're exercising your creative well your job essentially and through that process you have ups and you have downs and you make things are accessible and things that are not accessible um and then in the end you you find what you believe to be um you you find where you think the margins of acceptability in terms of an audience

right um lie um and of course you want to you want to somehow straddle that line sure you know you want to keep challenging yourself and making things that are interesting but simultaneously hold on to an audience and uh you know it's a business after all and you know you want to make sure that if someone lends you 10 bucks you give them 12 bucks back or whatever it is i mean you know you mentioned sort of like you know you kind of accelerated that career accelerated maybe more quickly than you could have ever anticipated and maybe in retrospect even wanted when you look back I mean it doesn't seem like looking at the filmography you know you can you can assign things based on critical reception or commercial reception that that were maybe a misfire or two do you consider any of

them like do you look back at them with any any of them with like regret or do you feel pride in all of them um it's a good question and I'm not sure how to give you an answer because I'm not sure how honest I can be so well I how how honest I I think I am and how honest I really am I'm two different honest. I got it. Right. So I would say, and this is as honest as I can be, I don't regret any of it. But I'm also in a position where I don't have to regret any of it, you know?

So if I rattle through how my films went, so Lockstock did very well and then Snatch did very well. And then I did swept away, which was arguably, you know, I got properly. You got, you got through the paces. Oh, yeah, I got properly. the thing was I was married to one of the most famous women in the world at the time which made it also incredibly public

because then it became such a story in itself and then she was in the film and then I like the movie and then neither of us took a fee on the movie and we thought well you know we're not going to get... What can we lose? Yeah we're not going to get judged on this

everyone knows we're not getting paid and then of course it didn't try and spy like that and then you got to reflect back on the naivity of that Yeah. It was your time to be whipped in the press. It was like everybody gets their time and apparently that was your moments. Well, then there was revolver.

Well, that was a lower key. But I tell you what, it wasn't in the UK. Really? Oh, no, no. I got properly. Oh, yeah. By the time I'd finish with those two, my confidence was truly shaken. Because they were films I still liked, right?

And they both embodied things that I thought were interesting and creative. And all of that was thrown to the wind. and you were just judged on the critics and whether you're successful or not. So there were those two, and that hurt in the sense that you had to try and get your confidence back and you had to try and get a job back.

I'm telling you, it wasn't easy. So, and then... It's that rock and roller then it was rock and roller. And then it was hard to get that money, you know? And again, I'm not sure if I took a fee or anything on that. And then from there, people went, oh, they got their sort of confidence back. and then since then, I've, you know, been easy since then.

But I, and to a degree, well, none of it's easy, but it's to a degree, it's understanding, you know, as I say, this unseen line of where people will follow you. Now, some of that's vitriolic and angry and egotistical, and some of it's realistic and acceptable. However, you have to live within both of those worlds, right? So somehow you have to reconcile. all of our egos.

So we have to accept that people will be vitriolic if they're allowed to be, if you give them an opportunity to be. And you can't be naive about that. And as I say, I'm borrowing money to make a film and I'm interested in making a profit on borrowing money at the same time making creative product that's worth making. Hey guys, would you classify yourself as a geek gamer or pop culture nerd? I assume if you're listening to the show, you're probably all three. Well, don't worry, Luke Crate is the subscription box for you, if that's what describes you.

Luke Crate is a subscription box service with over $40 worth of geek, gamer, and pop culture gear, collectibles, apparel, comics, and more delivered to your mailbox every month. So make sure to head to lutecrate.com slash happy and enter the code, Happy, to save $3 on any new subscription. Each month is a different theme. All are inspired by classic movie and video game releases, as well as pulling from pop culture franchises. Previous crates have included items from franchises like Star Wars, Marvel, The Walking Dead, Legend of Zelda, and much, much more.

This month, we're all cowering in fear at the return of the villains. Whether they're terrifying or tragic, something about bad guys and gals is just plain fun. Probably the snazzy outfits, Army of Henschman, and totally relatable, treat yourself to some sweet loot attitude, right? Thanks for joining us as we celebrate

our darker side with epic items from Marvel, an exclusive DC figure, a unique wearable item they've never put into crate before. By the way, this is a huge crate this month. Just remember, it's good to be bad. Basically, loot crate is like a good friend who knows what you love and surprises you with an awesome present every month.

And did I mention that they shipped over 13 different countries, too? You guys have until the 19th at 9 p.m. Pacific to subscribe and receive that month's crate. Just know that when the cutoff happens, that's it. It's over. You missed out. So go to lukecrate.com slash happy and enter the code happy to save $3 on your new subscription today. Maybe there is comfort also to be gleaned from, you know, talking to many filmmakers and actors over the year that this is, I mean, it doesn't maybe help the wound in the moment, but that a lot of films, people come back around too. I don't know if maybe the, you know, what was assigned to swept away was so, so big and so harsh. Maybe it's going to take another five years for people to really, truly

watch it without any kind of baggage. But I feel like it happens at a certain point where there is a new appreciation. There is a new way to interpret something without the baggage at the time. Right. And that may be the case. You could, you can probably tell now, and I can say this as much honesty as I can believe that I can muster is I don't care. You know, I don't care now because I don't have to care. Yeah, yeah. So, and the other thing is I gave up reading the reviews. The reviews years ago.

And that's not out of kind of spite or it's just purely practical. It's a practical decision. It must screw with your head. You know, you go up, you go down. You go up, you go down. And there's a worm and there's a hook in the worm. and that the worm tastes good and then you realize there's a hook in it.

You know, so if you look at all worms as quops. Wait a second. I was a genius a second ago. What happened? I thought we all agreed on that. So if you look at all of it like hooks, then you don't get drawn into it. And you just, you know,

I enjoy the films I make. I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that. But partly because I forget that I made them. So, you know, I went to that screening that you went to a couple of nights ago. And that's the first time I've seen it with an audience. You know, up until now, I've only seen it with five people.

Wow. So, and I forgot that I had anything to do with it. And there's all sorts of things in there which I hadn't, I thought I'd not seen before. I obviously have seen it before. Do they not let you in the edit room? Have you been separated from the process? You just forget, you know, every now and then. Well, you're also hearing different reactions that don't happen in an edit room when it's two guys or four guys.

That's totally true, but I'm telling it's more than that. You know, I caught Snatch on TV the other day and I couldn't remember anything, anything about it at all. And by the time it finished, I thought, yeah, I thought, oh, that's a great movie, you made that. So it's a relief that. I like that aspect of filmmaking, you know, I like the aspect that I don't become, I'm not self-flagellating. It's not awkward for me to watch these things, you know, I just forget. I just become a popcorn eater, put my feet up and, you know, get stuck in. Let's talk a little bit about spy movies.

I know a subject you've been talking a lot about lately. But, like, give me a sense of your where you come at spy movies. Like, who was your bond growing up? what was your bond was probably my bond um in the sense that well there was uh there was the ipchrist file there was uh parma harry palmer i think it was his name and uh help me out with his name michael cane so michael cane so i adored michael cane in those there was a particular genre um there wasn't just the ipris file there was another one um uh well there was another harry palmer movie there was another there were three harry palmer movies i seem to remember anyway he was a kind of great

character and you'll be able to tell that actually we're influenced more by Palmer than we are by Bond to a degree in the sense that Palmer comes from a sort of a mischievous background rather than just being a civil servant. Yes. You know it's hard. Napoleon Solo has some ulterior

motives in it for himself a little bit. Well he's developed and also he's developed skills which are sort of capitalistic skills that he developed as a you know as a squirrel trying to get a nut as opposed to he's a guy that went to college and he went and joined his majesty's government and then the secret service.

For me, that's all a bit of a, I'm not sure how interested in that man I am because he sounds like a civil servant. Bond has made it manifest wonderfully. But it's not such a sexy beginning as a guy that came up the hard way was a squirrel that developed all the requisite skills that you need to acquire a nut. And then he has to work for a government. because they have something over. It's either a five-year jail sentence or whatever it is. But they can see his skill set is what they require. And I like that guy.

I'm more interested in that guy. We're always more interested in guys with character, which usually involves some kind of nefarious activity. Then we are interested in good guys. Good guys are bland. And the first bonds, you know, they had Sean Connery. And Sean Connery just felt like a naughty born. Yes.

So they transcended lots of the inherent issues of just being a boring civil servant because he was cocky and had swagger and was politically incorrect. And somehow all of that, but just oodles a charm. And I was influenced by that. So across between Harry Palmer, a bit of early Bond. It really, what you're interested in is coming up with an alibi for how to illustrate an interesting character. And the spy genre just seems to be just another way of doing that. I'm not really interested in spies. I'm interested in character.

And the genre allows me to warm my hands off character. And in this one, I mean, you have, I was talking to you, you know, off mic before, like, you've cast this one exceptionally well. And you've put actors in it that I've enjoyed in other things, but frankly, I've enjoyed them more in this than anything else I've seen. Henry, I think, is going to arguably this is going to do more for his career in a weird way. than Man of Steel and that it's showing how charming he can be. You know, Superman is a lot of things. He's not necessarily the most fun character to be around and charming man to be around. I'm curious because like every cool actor in Hollywood was or in the world was like mentioned

for these roles at a certain point. Cruz was attached to it, I know, briefly. And that's interesting to me just because of who he is and how big a star he is. And I wonder if that would have changed the dynamic of that relationship. I mean, did the film change much when it went from some. someone like Tom Cruise and Napoleon Solo to someone like Henry. Because right now it feels like a two-hander or even a four-hander, if you want to include the two great leading ladies you have.

Yeah, I think I can, I'm very flexible because, you know, we write all of this material. I'm very flexible about being able to move. But then my original idea for Napoleon Solo was that he was going to be. Brad Pitt was who I wanted, actually. I asked Pitt to do everything. So does everyone else. But you actually have the number, so that helps. And I wanted him to play the older role

and I wanted the Russian to play the younger role. So there was going to be an age disparity as well there. And then Pitt told me to piss off. So and Tom didn't. So then I had Tom. And then that dynamic was I wanted Tom to be older. Got it. You know, the same thing.

And I can make that work. And then, needless to say, Mission Impossible, interfered with the process considering that's coming out two weeks ago and we're coming out two weeks later so he was occupying too much of the same space so that fell apart and then I got two guys that were

both of them were actually reading for the Russian and Henry was reading for the Russian but Henry with blonde hair looks silly so that he was out of the equation but once the Tom thing didn't work then obviously just made sense to sort of put him into that slot But that took me all of 30 seconds to be able to shift from having an older guy to having two guys at the same age. So I got a lot of flexibility in what it is, how I can make something work.

What I'm interested in is tone, right? So I can make it work in terms of tone if he's an older guy, if he's a black guy, if he's a Chinese guy. None of that interferes with the process or where they come from. as long as you couldn't stick to the tone. And that was my only concern, really, because I like the tone of the original series and I like the way it didn't take itself too seriously. But it still had stakes.

And that's really what I wanted to capture. So, you know, you give me all sorts of actors and I could have made it work. I would have made some incarnation of that work. Previously on the podcast, I had Jude on a few months ago, and we were talking about Sherlock, of course, that he was talking about these amazing

it sounds like amazing sessions that you guys have where you kind of get in a room maybe a few times over the last few years in terms of like figuring out what Sherlock, the next Sherlock would be. He was saying that he had an insane idea at one point to involve time travel in a Sherlock sequel. Where did you come down on Jude's idea about time travel?

Actually, Ivan who's sitting next to us has been through a lot of this with me. Jude actually have very good ideas all the way through the process. And, you know, my experiences most actors do. most actors are creative and they have ideas and by no means

am I the custodian of creative ideas I'm the guy that just goes oh that's a good one that's not a good one I just sort of I cobble them together so it sort of turns in some kind of film but the more people that chip in actually the sort of happier I am

and Jude always had good ideas surprisingly good and came up some good lines too the time travel one may not have been his top five that wasn't the zenith of his ideas look as someone that was the film the H.G. Wells one time after time. That worked.

That had time travel in it. That involved a little Arthur and Cohn Doyle and Jack the Ripper action. It's been done. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Really? You don't remember that one? Time after time? I don't help me out here, mate. Okay, the DVD. It's okay. Okay.

It's a movie. Okay. Malcolm McDowell. Yeah, okay. Trust me on this one. Okay. You have just wrapped I think you have rapped, right? We have. Yeah.

Which sounds like, I mean, I'm curious about this on many respects. You know, given the kinds of, you know, work you've done to see what your take on something like this will be is fascinating. I mean, you were talking about sort of like, yeah, ironically, it's kind of inversely happened in your career where you're now almost like pushing yourself in more unique strange areas later in your career as opposed to earlier. This feels like kind of a departure in many ways. I mean, would you say it is or does it feel like? Yes, I would, but I suspect. and there's nothing more that irritates me

when people say this so forgive me you know what I'm like you know like well actually I don't really know what you're like because why would you think

that I think about what you're like right? You've spent a lot of hours thinking about my style Josh right so but my suspicion is if you've seen a few of my films

you'll have a take on what it is that you think I'm probably going to do with nights the round table and I imagine you'll be sort of within 10 or 15% right accurate in your

perception and I think that's probably what's happened I mean I've got a lot more money than I've ever had and that's been unbelievably fun it's funny as I've been comparing you know just watch the first four reels of King Arthur and you see the scale the muscularity of it dwarfs anything that you know I feel sort of rather

we feel like we're playing in a very small sandpit with anything else and then you come into this world and you really are playing on the beach. Well, even when this was, I don't know if it was officially announced,

but there was talk like this is part of potentially a six film saga and like, I mean, that's ambitious. And I know obviously your task is to make one that works on it. That's it. That's it.

I mean, does magic figure into this? Do you have Merlin? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, actually, there was a chap. I'll take as much credit as I can wherever I can. But there was a chap called Joby Harrett.

Jobie Harold, who's an English guy, a screenwriter. And he came up with one simple pitch. I've been working on this for quite some time, the King Arthur story. And I'll say I'll take the credit on the fact that the story is essentially mine, but there were two elements which were fundamental, which changed the whole equation and make the idea of this being a franchise work. And that was, you've got some of the most iconic characters,

in narrative histories. You've got King Arthur, you've got Lancelot, you've got Gwynnevere, you've got Merlin, you've got... Who else you got? You got that stone.

The stones right there. You got the stone. You've got a sword. You got Excalibur. So, by the way, there's a lot of guff going on here, right? Now, our problem was we were all trying to put

all of this information into one film. Well, all does you do is you just you use one of those elements in one film. So you take King Arthur. Yeah. And we've ended up using the sword as well.

But that's two elements, two heavy elements that everyone's heard of. So the sword, the stone, King Arthur. If you start playing with Guinevere, if you start playing with Lancelot, if you start playing with Merlin, it starts getting very congested. And that becomes a problem. Because really all of those characters weren't a film on their own. So that was one sort of master. that this chap came up with and the other one was um this size of the fantasy um and that made

it competitive and it made sense so you had a sort of perfect alibi as to be fantastic so you can have 300 foot elephants in a film where a sword is being extracted from a stone and you can deal with one or two um very well known brands or characters without as I say becoming too congested So that was the sort of maststroke. That was a 30 second pitch. Finn out the narrative, just deal with one iconic character and put in 300 foot elephants. And by the way, where do I sign up?

Come on. And we all put our hands out. And that was a 30 second pitch. Amazing. A bunch of random things I want to ask you about stuff in your career because I am a fan and I followed your career closely over the years. I remember, and I loved what Jared did with Moriarty, I will say, in Sherlock. But I do remember there was rumor.

at one time there was, early on there was Brad was, was rumored. There you go again. I know, always. Do you just always name's going to keep coming out? No, he knows this. I mean, it was very sweet to turn up to my wedding the other day just because I think, because I've just worn him down. Just to perpetuate him.

And he knows he's going to get the call on the next one. It's going to carry on. What about Daniel Day Lewis? Did you ever try to get him? Did you ever get to meet with him? I did. I didn't meet. I met him when he was a cobbler.

He was in that mode. Oh my God. He was, yeah, this was previous. I was on the piss somewhere in, where is it? That's years ago now. It was, where was it? It was in Italy, but I'm just trying to think of one of those Italian cities where he was. Well, Florence, I think he was a cobbler in Florence.

So he was from the gangs of New York, that was that whole thing. And it was, and I think we went on the piss back then for a night, which I've done with quite a few actors in the past. It's an initiation, yeah, got to go through it. By the way, it is a sort of initiation, if that's the language you speak. I mean, I cast all my actors on how much I get on with them. It goes back to the bloody hammer. it does it does yeah and so you know a night in the pub usually sorts out the boys from the toys

um so yeah that is a sort of organic process i very rarely talk about the work itself and just talk about are we going to get on um because there's the presumption by this point that you know how to act that you know what you're doing and almost as important at this point is are we going to get on yeah that's four months that's it you you know do they get your tone do you get their tone and are you going to get along and that's really the the line share of my concern there you're right we're all long enough in the tooth to be able to go well i know you can do it so the question is now can we do it and enjoy ourselves yeah so daniel didn't that was that was that was and then no and then it did there was dialogue that was open but

you know i've had this conversation with lots of actors um and it's a painful long tedious process because there's lots of people in the middle and it's much easy now if i get ever if i ever get my hands on an actor i get their number directly so you just have the conversation directly because it wouldn't have worked with Jude and we've just done another film we did King Arthur with Jude and it wouldn't work with Jude if the middlemen were allowed to have their way in the end I just called up for Jude make it happen and it happened and had I not had his phone number it just wouldn't have happened right I'm getting distracted sorry where was like no it's all good so Daniel and that and that and that

process and there was a process and there's towing and furrowing and throwing and in the end you just fucking bull to this and then you end up going with something that well actually knows what he's doing. Jared's or Jared's solid and he's wonderful and but you end up going with someone that you know that you can get on the phone that you can meet in a room and you know you can get on the piss with. You know, I'm kind of surprised given, you know, and you're one of these

filmmakers that I feel like in this day and age it's rare to have like an association with a studio that's ongoing. It's like you think of Clint Eastwood back in the day but you've worked a lot with Warner Brothers and I'm kind of surprised that I'm sure you've taught to them about comic book movies. I'm sure that you've had those meetings at least to talk about it since they're so active in that space? Is that something that you've come?

I mean, because I remember there were, we've even talked back in the day, I feel like that Sergeant Rock was talked about. It was Lobo even in the mix at one point. Yeah, it was. I'm quite glad I didn't. Well, I got to say the Sergeant Rock's pretty good. And I rewrote the script on that.

And I've got to say, I like it. Yeah. And it was pretty good. I don't almost happen to that. It sort of fell by the way sign. Someone's got their hands on it. Yeah, but a lot of these issues are administrative and who has the rights and how much would they want and yada, yada, yada.

I think that's the problem, Sergeant Rock. And fitting into their grand plan, too, like, you know, maybe prioritizing the superheroes over the other stuff. Maybe. All as I know is if someone had made it simple for me to make Sergeant Rock, I would have made a very good version of Sergeant Rock. So we'll put a pin in that. Lobo, I'm glad we didn't go near that.

Why is that? Well, it's just because I don't think I could have done a good job. And at the right time, I was having the chap who's head of the studio then, Jeff Robinoff. Jeff and I had a conversation and he went, you don't really want to do this, dear. And I went, no, and he went, okay, well, let this one go. So, and I'm glad that happened because I wouldn't have known how to pull that one off.

But I was, you know, in the stage where I'm prepared to try a new thing. Sure. But I've got to tell you, I think I would have cocked that one up. Yeah. And then since then, I've been distracted with being busy. Yeah. With other projects, Warner have been great to me. They've been, there are, I have no horror stories about Warner's.

You know, they are there to facilitate the filmmaker, in my experience. And there's been nothing other than a helping hand at any time. I've got to tell you, they're adults, and they run a pretty grown-up show there. Do you, are you a big consumer of film nowadays? I mean, do you watch a lot of film? So what are some films in the last night? You've been pretty busy lately. You fucker.

This is the dreaded question, right? And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to throw it back onto you and you're going to tell me all of these films. And then I'm going to tell you what I think of them. Speaking of Warner, Mad Max is a work of genius. Yeah, oh good. Well, I'm glad to hear you say that. Ivan, again, who's sitting next to me here.

Ivan and I, Ivan is a real film buff. And he's my encyclopedia of films. So when I always defer to him when I'm not sure about something. So Ivan and I watched it, he kindly bought us a couple of 3D tickets and we went to the IMAX. and it was the best action movie I'd ever seen. It's amazing. It was amazing.

Without any ambiguity, it was by far the best action. No, I've seen it five times in theater. I mean, I'm obsessed with it. Oh, good for you. Okay, because I went back for the second bite

the next week. It's quite fine. I'm pleased to find someone that's a fellow enthusiast because the way it's constructed is it's a work of genius. And I got to have George in this office too for the podcast,

which was an amazing treat. And like to see just sort of like, you know, he's talked about it as people. pure cinema. It's like minimal dialogue yet tells a compelling emotional story at times and just from the action perspective. How do you reinvent action now and in his 70s? It's just remarkable to see. Yeah. And I would argue that the two major parts is the commitment to a style, which is then which has become manifest perfectly. This is what I want. This is what

will look like. And that vision felt like a director's vision. So, 10 out of 10 for that and the execution of the of the action was 10 out of 10 for that so you've got two 10 out of 10s you're off to start yeah it's a big deal but it's funny how it didn't really get traction with a with a popular audience yeah I think it's it's in that kind of gray zone of whether they like it's so silly to talk into these numbers but it was like made like almost 400 million is that enough to like warrant a sequel and that kind of thing it's in that that weird thing when we get into the silly business side of things yeah so anyway there you go so that so that so that was a film that was uh yeah is worth talking about who were we i mean going back when you were a kid like were you like a cinephile were you like someone that like like when do you when did were you most aware of like filmmakers or aware that filmmakers are doing their thing if you look at the movies that i download they're embarrassing um and i i i would hope that no one has a look at the movies that i don't sure one or two what do you got them all on my phone there i'm not going to show you um because i tell you why because i like watching as many things as i can watch and

I get tickled by things that not, I mean, I'm relatively predictable in the films that I like. Okay. I mean, I'm a big Pixar fan. So, you know, a combination of Pixar and kids, you know, incredible, I think it's one of the best films ever made. So I can bang on about them for a while. Yeah. just the sheer geniusness. I'm rather embarrassed to say I was a big fan of Frozen too.

Partly because I've watched it a thousand times because all my kids watch a thousand times. I've got a two and a half year old girl who, you know, that's all she wants to watch. It's Frozen. I'm sure. So I know all the songs. Yeah.

If you want to close out the podcast with your rendition, let it go, I won't stop you. It's not a pretty sound. By the way, I have sung it a lot. So, um, so no, it's funny. It's a broad. It's broad.

And then, of course, I like relatively esoteric cinema. I like foreign cinema. So I'll like lots of stuff that you'd predict I'd like. And then simultaneously, I mean, the films I really like when I was growing up were like I was, I lean towards the more popular action stuff like Where Eagles Dare, that kind of stuff that the guns are never owned, that were kind of accessible and glamorous and broad. enter sergeant rock i can see the linkage yeah yeah um so you know i like i like that kind of cinema but then you know like i love the profit do you like the profit oh i haven't seen it i know everyone loved it yeah i haven't seen it yeah i mean sensational yeah i've seen that five times okay i've been busy watching mad max every day oh right i'm sorry so um you know i love tarentino

stuff um i love a strong director um i still think that filmbeck is a director's medium and The more director-driven it is, the more I enjoy it. The more I could smell and feel a director behind a camera, the more I can relax. Black Gardens of the Galaxy out of all those big sort of things. You feel a unique creative vision behind it, which is hard. Yeah, I just felt a voice. A confident voice.

You know, certain people are born to do certain jobs. And I can, I feel palpable. I feel a palpable sensation when I know a filmmaker was born to be a filmmaker. you know, and they're a conspicuous, you know, characters within that, Tarantino is one of those characters. We just know that that's what they were born to do. Hans Zimmer was born to be a composer and it's so conspicuous. Well, it's conspicuous to me. And there's all sorts of other filmmakers that I feel that about.

And I get quite excited when I feel that. Yeah. Well, I would honestly extend that back to you. I think anybody that's seen your films and it's not, it doesn't get in the way of the filmmaking of the fun and the story, but they can see, your stamp on it and you and you really brought a great sense of fun a sense of style, a sense of coolness to this film and I congratulate you on it

Manphamuncle is a good piece of work man and thanks for stopping by today man appreciate it. Thank you very much. We did it. Any last expletives you want to throw out there? No but I'll tell you what I do appreciate that last 30 seconds was the other 40 minutes? Was the other 40 minutes as enjoyable

or just you were in it for the last 30? No, it was a conversation. like a conversation um and like i said i thought i was going to have to come into a studio where everyone had their baseball caps turned backwards and i was going to have to get down yeah we're going to do that next you weren't told uh it's good to see you man thank you again thank you very much womp up the jams wop it up like a dejoin what this feels really weird without the song can you at least beatbox you can't afford it can you beatbox no you can't i can't start the tape over

bitch can you beat box yeah sure i didn't say do like the mating call of a mountain gorilla jane goodall no that's nailed it all right hey i'm marissa wampler and my show is called wamp it up we're coming at you from the marina del ray public high school library where I'm a student and every episode, me and my teacher and quasi-legal guardian. It's legal and central in parts of South America. Whatever. We interview the most fascinating teacher, students, and janitors at my school until I overwhelm them with my movie star charm and my incandescent sexuality. Can we play a clip?

Yeah, here it is. You're not guilty in the eyes of the law. All right, all right. Like O.J. Simpson. I don't want to be like O.J. Simpson. That doesn't make me feel good. Why not? Terrific ball player.

Terrific ball player. And a good actor, too. No, listen. Not bad. You're the only people, guys, you're the only people who are going to argue in his defense. I'm not arguing anything. We're just saying that a court of law. Court of law found him innocent of murder.

So get to Earwolf.com for your favorite. Earwolf. What I say. Earwolf. Like Alf, your favorite show. God, I love that show. Earwolf.com. Or your favorite podcast app right now.

Pomp up those jams. Pop. Pop? Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop.

Wolf Pop is part of mid-roll media, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Matt Gourley, and Paul Shear. they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem witch trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, killers of the flower moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country from the Miami drug wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers, and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries

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