Happy Sad Confused - Hayley Atwell, Vol. II

Episode Date: July 13, 2023

Since the last time Hayley Atwell appeared on the podcast she finally donned the shield for Marvel and joined the MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE franchise so there's a lot to catch up on! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS  ZocDoc -- Go to Zocdoc.com/HAPPYSAD and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today! BetterHelp -- This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/HSC and get on your way to being your best self. RocketMoney -- Go to RocketMoney.com/HSC To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I get a lot of so much slack. I'm like, it's not, wasn't my choice when they're like, you know, she's like, I could do this all day. And they're followed by, she's immediately cut in half by Frisbee. And then the audience speaking, like she can't do it all day. Apparently you can't. So, yeah, egg on your face.

And I'm like, oh, it doesn't really serve Peggy very well. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Say, Confused, I'm Josh Horowitz. And my guest today, while I was barreling through the streets of Rome handcuffed to Tom Cruise, dancing into the sunset with Steve Rogers. She's at home on the stage. She's also at home talking to me.

She's a very wise lady. It's the one and only, Haley, Atwell. Wow, what an introduction, Josh. Thank you. It's good to see you again. It's so good to see you. I've been on the periphery a little bit on this mad tour of yours. Yeah, you're there at the beginning in Rome.

I was there at the crazy world premiere, Spanish Steps, as one does. The first time it's ever had a premiere, the Spanish Steps. I mean, if anyone's going to be able to get a premiere there, it's Tom. So it was a lifetime experience. Insanity. How are you holding up? I was just saying when you walk in the room. You seem remarkably composed and coherent for somebody that's been traveling the world for a few weeks.

I think there's different stages of delirium that kicks in at different times of the day. But I think also when we've come towards the end of it now and the response of the movie of people have seen it is so overwhelmingly positive that it gives me so much energy. You know, so the interviews I've done, the people I've met, they've loved it and it feels like this film was always designed for an audience on the big screen. So to have it delivered in their hands now is like, I feel like my job's done. I can just enjoy it. This kind of movie does make my job easy. It's Mission Impossible, Dead Reckoning, part one. It's a mouthful, but it's worth it.

And it's extraordinary. It is exactly what you want out of a ginormous summer blockbuster. It is so satisfying. And I have to say, I don't know, my experience watching the movie was one of just exhilaration and also relief. It's like, how does McHugh and Tom and you guys keep upping the ante? What was it like for you watching the finished product of this for the first thing? time. It was it was having been there on set every day and been working on it for four years and then sat there in the audience. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time even though I know what

happens. And I think it's a credit to also Eddie Hamilton, the editor who just knew how to always create that sense of pace and momentum and excitement. And I remember when I was asking Tom, you know, what's a running time of this? Like a long movie. And Tom's response was so good. He just said, it's as long as it is entertaining. Right. And it's true. So for me when I watched it, it goes by so quickly because you're, you'll just, they know how to keep you engaged. So I was, you know, it was, it was, it was bit of sweet. And my mom was sitting beside me when I saw it for the first time and seeing it kind of vicariously through her eyes. And she kind of looked at one point during the train set sequence. And she was like, I didn't, how did you do that?

And I was like, I don't know. I have no idea. Talk to McHugh. I don't know how they did it. Yeah. Speaking of parents, I was, we should just acknowledge, dad is like five feet away right off camera. Yeah, it's very sweet. And it must be fun to just sort of experience this kind of thing through friends and family because it does give you a bit of perspective on the madness. Yeah, and they know how hard I've worked and how far I've come in 17 years of working in this industry. They've supported me, been through everything with me and always retained that sense of

kind of loyalty and kindness and support. And so now also it feels like something I can give back to them of like a great night out of the cinema. You know, it's a, it's a family affair. So you were last on the podcast five years ago for Howard's End. A study in contrasts is Haley Atwell. This is the proof of range as an actor. Give me a sense, I mean, when this comes around this opportunity, were you, I don't know, like, how calculated are you about kind of crafting a career? Like, are you thinking, like, you know, I've done the Marvel thing, but it's good to have kind of a franchise. Like, do you think in those terms or is that like is that the death of art of creativity for an artist?

It's a good question. And it's such a hard one to reckon with because there's so much that's not in your control as an actor and you've got this creative life but it's married to a business which is full of, you know, rejection, full of like, you know, networking and meeting filmmakers and then sometimes you might have a connection with them but the timing doesn't work out. There's so many factors in it that you can't really, you can't make, you can't plan. You know, when I first came out of drama school, I just wanted to work.

And I wanted to develop enough of a skill set and a craft that I felt like I had something to offer. And the classical training kind of set me up for lots of different genres. And so I didn't have in mind, like, it's just, it's going to be this or it's going to be that. Because, I mean, as soon as I tried to make any sort of direction I would get laughed at by the jobs,

it would come my way or wouldn't come my way. And I think the work ethic, has remained the same for me so I could do Howard's End and then I could do an Ibsen play and then I could do a Mission Impossible franchise because really it's about just scene playing with different people and hoping that you can bring some grounded psychologically astute kind of take on a character regardless of the genre that it fits into and you would I would think also like now in hindsight getting this role when you did you've accumulated these kind of different skill sets that you can kind of all bring to bear on a role

like this, in a film like this, where it requires the physicality, it requires the nimbleness, it requires everything you've kind of accumulated as an actor. Totally. Totally. And that was part of the screen test with Tom and McHugh. They were like, we don't have a character. We find the actor we want to work with and we create the character with them. So they created this environment where I could just come up with lots of different readings and different choices. And they were saying sort of in the edit, they were like, you gave us so much range. We were, could dial you up or dial you down. And I was like, yeah, because I have no idea what I'm doing.

So. Okay, we need to dig into this more. Because I've had this conversation with you and all the actors in the mission films. And it's like, it still boggles my mind. These movies are as amazing as they are because they shouldn't be. They shouldn't be. Yes. And I've heard you talk about this. We've talked about this before.

You being such a slave to writers to like the written word. There was no finished script that you ever, like you had in the beginning. I mean, it's okay to talk about it because the movie's great, and they know how to do it. It's like, there's something to apologize for. Yeah. But for you, this must have been like so counter to everything that you are brought up on. You're out of control, which I'm someone that's usually tries to take control of the things that are within my orbit and then let go of what's not in my control. I had none in this.

So what I did have was trust. And I trusted McHugh and Tom every step of the way. And I trusted Wade Eastwood and Sam Eastwood, who trained me throughout the... this. And because I knew that they were so hardworking, and they have this way of going, it's not like we want to shoot a script, we want to shoot a movie, and we might have an idea of what the movie is going to be in our heads, but on the day, the camera or the frame picks up something else, and then we just go with that. So they're always re-evaluating what they've done and what they're doing. And McHugh says, there are three kind of, you make, there are three

movies. Right. The first movie is a movie you think you want to make. Then that's all pre-production. Then there is the movie you're actually making, which is in production. And then in the edit, you discover the film you've actually made. And they can be very different. And so, you know, as an actor, if you feel like you're in the company of people that you can really give over that to, then it's quite exciting. And it gives you an opportunity to try lots of different things, knowing you can't get it wrong because there's not going to be in,

the bad stuff isn't going to end up on screen anyway, so you're kind of free. You're safe. So how much of a different grace exists in the digital cameras that exist, the archives of footage? Like when we're talking variations on grace, how different was she? And what did you give them? There were moments where she was, we had this beautiful, like, nod to the sting. And Tom and I would, every so often, we do this to each other. And we did it quite a lot.

We did it in the airport where she takes. that she, you know, stitches him up. And then we do it also when she gets out of the Fiat 500, when she's kind of ditched him. And then we also do it when she's called him a pervert publicly. And she kind of gets away in an elevator. And we do this. And then we love, we like, oh, how lovely, how charming.

What a great nod to those 70s heist movies. But how it ended up reading is that she seemed to be more calculating. And she seemed to actually relish in making life hard for Ethan. And it meant when they were watching, He goes, we don't like her because of that. And so they were always trying to work out. We wanted to be clever. We wanted to be, you know, nimble, like you said.

We want to have a physical relationship that felt like a dance with Ethan when they're handcuffed to each other. But we always want to, we want to be on her side or we want to at least go, we kind of understand or forgive her for the things that she does. Because she's actually more in a state of hypervigilance. And she doesn't know this guy. She doesn't know the world that she's in. and so she's in survival mode the whole time. So we understand why she does the things that she does. And there was also another one where I betrayed the team another time.

And it was a great scene. It was so well done. It was beautifully shot. And it was like a kind of a twist moment. And they looked at it afterwards and just went, she's just betraying people to one too many times for the audience to actually forgive her or to not make it look like the IMF.

They would know by now. Right, right, right. They're pretty good at what they do. Yeah, there's things like that. No, it's interesting because it occurred to me in watching it too in the hands of a lot of actors because this is a tough role because the actions that Grace does, you're kind of screwing things up a lot. She changes the pot. So, like, if you're not an innately also likable performer, I would say, you need somebody

that can just bring a natural likeability. if you can accept that as a compliment, and I mean it as such, even in the face of doing things that maybe the audience is questioning and saying, wait, you're screwing things up for our heroes. Absolutely.

And also, you know, there was like some sort of, I mean, there's certain comments of going, well, where's Ilsa? And like, oh, she's coming to, you know, to take over. And it was so not the case. And Rebecca Ferguson is so distinctive and powerful as Ilsa in this franchise.

And it was going, this is not about, you know, I think it also kind of, it's not about pitting, and me coming in as a newbie doesn't mean that I'm usurping anything or taking over anything. It means it's a new fresh perspective. So how could I stand out? You're the first like civilian in a mission movie essentially. Yes, exactly. And wanting to feel like, okay, the audience have got to, uh, she's got to kind of earn that from them. But there were also times I remember

doing takes where she was so, um, she was more charming and she was more vulnerable. And it was a bit like how it then ended up reading within the structure of the film. It was like she was trying to win the audience over. Right. And McHugh and Tom were like, we like her less when she's trying to be nice. First, we don't trust her. Right. But also it feels, the audience go, they pull back from her a little bit.

Yeah. But if she is unapologetic in her own drive and intention to just survive, and she's not trying to win everyone over. in fact, she's trying to get out of the Mission Impossible franchise, essentially is what the kind of the character read could be. That then we kind of like her more, because she's not manipulative.

I think it's interesting. You mentioned, and I saw this reaction, and it sounds like you're very much aware of it too. And I think there's an underlying, honestly, a bit of misogyny in there, too, when, like, another great actress is added to a franchise and be like, wait, we've got that one already. Right, yeah.

Well, you can have a few. You can, there's space. There's totally, And I think with all the women in this, we have Pom Clementeyev, incredible powerhouse, Vanessa Kirby, this kind of goddess. And Rebecca, obviously, we're also distinctive. And I also felt that none of us are objectified. We're not walking around in slinky dresses with flirtation being our number one currency.

You know, when Grace flirts, she flirts twice once with Ethan and then you see a flooding with a guy on a plane, it's all tactical. And it's part of her ammunition, but it's not the thing. that ultimately gives her the currency that she uses. It's just something in her toolkit. And it means that you can find characters that have nuance rather than being one thing. She's not the femme fatale, the ice.

You know, she's the ice queen. She's not the ingenue. It means that there is space because the writing is so clever and the structure is so good that you can have a character that's consistently inconsistent and shows lots of different versions

which you go, oh, you mean she's human. Oh, yeah, that's what we're. we call humans, right? Because we're a little complex. Yeah, we're a little contradictory. We have many, many good qualities and bad qualities. So the history of this, from what I read, is it true that you actually met with McHugh and Tom for a Reacher movie as well? Or is that not? Yeah, I think it was the first time I read for both of them, yeah. Okay. And so, I mean, that, I mean, you kind of alluded to this before, like the circuitous nature of a career, you know, you can trust in that some of those things are going to bear fruit down the line. And this certainly is an example

of that. Yeah. Yeah. What do you remember of that initial meeting? Was it a blow when that didn't come to pass or were you inured to that

as an actor just like, okay, you know. I got my meeting with Tom Cruise and McCune and it was great. Well, and it might sound sort of kind of polliana of me to say it, but I think that the experience of working, doing that read-through with them, I kind of came away going,

I feel like I've been in a master class and I feel like I've been an audition because they are so, they're so sort of explicit about their process and what they're looking for and what they want to try and what the camera's doing and she lets to change the lighting here.

If we light her from this direction then she actually looks like she's withholding more information or she looks more mysterious or she looks totally open and therefore we feel for her more. So they're always, the conversation is that rather never making you as an act of self-conscious. And they're gentlemen.

They come in, Tom is always prepared, he's doing lines off camera that he's learned but he is giving you as much as if it was his close-up. And you go, oh, he's so present that you want to up your game too, not in any way, a competitive way, but in a sense of, it's fun when you kind of find someone

that kind of wakes you up a little bit. And I felt like in retrospect it was, by that point, I'd been so used to rejection. Well, you're an actor, so unfortunately, I mean, unless you're Tom Cruise. Yeah, exactly, unless you just make the film yourself, that I had a kind of a healthy detachment from it, that you go in, prepared.

And the job is to go in and do the audition. What comes after that is shouldn't really be on your radar. And I would always be able to leave an audition and that I would go off and I would do something completely unrelated so that hopefully I wasn't just thinking too much about, did I get it, will I get it? Because that can kind of also rob you of your time. Sure.

So by then I felt like I felt pretty grounded in the experience. So you have, according to McHugh, roughly 40% of the next film has been shot. do you have more of a handle on what the next film is than you had on the first one? No. Embrace the chaos. It's okay, right?

Like, you know, you're in good hands. Yeah, totally. And I think also what they're doing is they're wanting to see the audience reaction to it. It's all for the audience. It's like test screening process in real life.

In real time. Like, are you not entertained? That's what they often say to each other. In a bigger cliff? What do you want? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so you, and I was, I had dinner with Tom last night, and he was just like,

eight is phenomenal. He's like, it's going to be, oh, my God. And you believe it, and I believe it. And he's, you have both what they were already shot. It's so emotional. And it's, it's, this one really sets up what will happen next. That's, that's what I'm gauging. I can't tell you plot lines, which is great.

I mean, it means that I can't, there's no, there's no spoils. I don't know. But can Grace possibly go on the journey? I mean, she, from the beginning of this film to the end, without spoiling anything, this is kind of, the biggest arc in this film is for Grace. Yeah. That would be probably tough to replicate on the next one, but again. Yeah, well, it's a very, for her, it's an origin story, this first one.

And she, the shift she makes of her own value system in this by, you know, towards the end is huge, which is so great. But then the next thing is going, well, how do. do I make sure that she doesn't plateau there now and just stay there? What becomes her next skill set or how does she develop? And that will be up to me, but that will also be up to us discussing it going. Now that she's in, we don't want to be like, oh, now she's in. And she does this.

It's got to feel that it has, again, this kind of forward momentum for her. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 XE90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo fall experience event. Conditions supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. Hey, Michael.

Hey, Tom. Well, big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental. Earthshaking. Heartbeat sound effect. Big. Mates is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks? We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks.

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Someone who wants to see your business succeed while giving you peace of mind. That's why the bankers at Merchant's Bank are here, ready with exceptional service every step of the way. Let's dream together. Visit Merchantsbank.com to get started. Merchant's Bank is a proud member FDIC. It's striking to me because, you know, we talked in the past, of course, about the famous screen test for Captain America, which was, again, like when it's kind of old school, full-on,

you know, hair, makeup, the whole nine yards. Are those, are these basically the only two you've done in that way? Because most actors never have screen tests of the help that you've had. There's been a couple of also big studio films that have been the case. But never to this kind of level. I mean, the Captain America, it was at a studio, hair and makeup, lighting, there was a set, there was props. Everything had been created to kind of look like she was in this office. And that gives me so much more as an actor rather than just sitting on a chair reading lines. You know, the environment is doing so much for your own imagination. But with this screen test, there was the added physical test with Wade, Eastwood.

and he's this incredible stunt coordinator who's also a professional race car driver he sprinted for South Africa he is full on energy alpha male it's amazing to be around him because you're like I'm gonna sit up straight and he's incredible as a teacher and he would come and he goes

I've got two hours to observe your natural abilities your physical fitness your level of coordination and I will then work out what to say to Tom and McHugh is where we think we could get you to within five months of training because then that will often... There's no point in asking me to do high kicks or ninja moves or something that's required

decades of training. So we'd go through that and then based on what his observations, he was like, okay, Tom and McHugh are going to be coming around the corner in about 20 minutes. And I want the first thing that they see of your movement to be the most complicated

stunt routine I can teach you. So now I'm going to give you, now I've seen how you move, I'm going to create a stunt. stunt fight for you with another stunt guy, and I'm going to, once you practice it a few times, I'm going to give you the nod when I can see that they're behind you and they're walking in, and I'll give you that cue to then do the most, like, complicated part of that routine. So I was like, okay. No pressure. Right off the top, you're sure? Okay. Yeah. And I was going,

this is intense, but this is what mission will be like. So if I can lean into that intensity and be sort of the eye of the storm and calm down my own nervous system, then I know that I've got a chance to actually enjoy the experience of that. So, you know, I did it on cue. It was like, did it, did it. And then I punched the guy in the face, knocked him out, and then I turned around. I was like, oh, hi, guys.

I didn't see you there. How are you doing? It was hanging out with Wade Eastwood here, just practicing a few moves. And they were, and then they would scuttle off with Wade, and Wade would then talk them through about how the screen tests had gone for them. And it took me, you know, a long time to find out

that they had tested with some other people who were, first and foremost extraordinary athletes more than actors. And, you know, there's no comparison with what they were able to do compared to me. But my feeling was like it's so great that they've been able to, they've cast someone who's first and foremost an actor that can put performance into style. But also that they clearly were looking for someone who wasn't slick and cool looking. But someone who was just, you were going to feel. feel for her when she's doing these stunts.

We go, she's, she's competent. She's, she's got natural ability and skill, but I don't know if she's going to make this. That's what makes it exciting. There you go. I'll have you know, by the way, for the podcast generally, we don't talk this much usually about the current project, but because I'm obsessed with it and there's so much to talk about, that speaks well of the movie.

And one thing we, you know, we've talked a little bit about Tom, but like, there's so much endless fascination with him. And look, I've had great experiences with him, the opportunities like hosting that carpet and I hosted the top gun carpet and like to feel that energy and that presence that he has that makes you feel like, it's like they always talk about presidents that way, right? It makes you feel like you are the most important person in the room when you're with him. I'm curious, like, is he like a familiar almost vibe to you? And this is my armchair psychiatrist, like knowing your background as I do and your dad is right here so we can always bring him in. But like, I know your mom.

like was or is like a motivational speaker. I feel like Tom could have been that. Like he's the most positive human being that could set his mind to anything and inspire anyone to do anything. Yeah. And my experience, lived experience being on the receiving end of that

for four years is it's not a, it's not a sort of a, what they, the buzzword that I hear at the moment about toxic positivity or like blind, like you can do anything and you're like,

well, probably not being an astronaut. Like he's not, within, Within reason, yeah. And you don't feel like he's also doing it too flat to you. It's not, doesn't feel manipulative. It feels like a genuine sense of his own humanity. I think he's a natural extrovert.

He really likes people. And he gets energy from connecting with them. I'm not. I'm more of an extroverted introvert. I love it. And then I run out of steam and I have to be alone for a long time. I really. So, you know, but he's, he lives sort of outside of his own.

He's not one for self-reflection or self-analysis. He kind of lives outside of his own kind of head. Right. And that's why I think he's so engaged in the world and is able to safely do such complicated stunts because you have to be so spatially aware of what's happening because your life is on the line. And his love of movies has always ultimately driven him.

So it seems like, you know, the noise or the people's fascination with him, he allows that. Sure. You know, he understands it. He respects it. and he's very grateful to, when fans particularly want to engage with him, he's there for it. And I remember when we were filming the Rome Carche sequence on the Imperiali, and there was loads of fans either side. And in between takes, he would go up and he would, you know, at a distance because of COVID.

He would be waving and, you know, taking pictures with them. And you go, oh, he really loves this. Oh, yeah. He loves it. At this point, I've resorted to desperation and sadness in trying to get the coconut cake. I have solicited everybody. I had, I talked to Emily Blunt on the podcast yesterday. I think I spent half of our time talking about the cake.

I'm not going to do it to you too, but just put a good word in. I really will. You should be on that list. I've never asked him directly. Emily says I should just say it to him, say I need it and want it and he'll make it happen, but I'm not that guy. So I'm now just like trying to manifest around. Indirectly.

I like it. I like your style. I will put in a word for you. No, you don't have to. I just need to say it out loud. So five years ago, we spoke on the podcast and I don't know if you knew or had a sense at that time that Peggy would be back in any incarnation at that time. But you've popped up in some interesting, fun places. I guess, talk, let's talk first about, I know

you talked to death about it, but indulge me if you would. The end of end game, when did you find out that that was going to be how that film actually ended? That's a really good question. I can't, I genuinely can't remember, because it was also two days of filming. Or maybe it was like a day and a half. And it was so secretive that I just kind of went and did it, left, didn't tell anyone and went back to, I think I was maybe doing a play or something at the time. But when they told me, I knew,

it's like it's such a, what an amazing moment to end everything for that sweetness for them to get that dance and the song that they chose. And when they told me there'll be this like long shot of the house and the door would already be opened. And they'll be a, they said at first, So they didn't want, I think it's really smart of them to do. They didn't want him knocking on her door and her answering it and her reaction.

Because that seems to be an obvious, but very literal. But there's something for me, when I watch it now, more evocative by the fact that you just see the door open, the song's already playing. It's like that they have that initial moment at the door just for themselves. Right. And so how that then lives in the audience's imagination is they get to fill in the emotion of that for themselves rather than seeing Peggy have that emotion. and then you go in and they've already found each other and it feels like it's a voyeuristic kind of discovery of them both together which I thought was so

sensitively done yeah it must have been very satisfying for you to see how that film and that moment was received because that film is there's so much in it and it's the end of a saga and there's so much bombast and big set pieces and yet it ends on this quiet emotional moment that is yours and... Wholesome, bittersweet. Yeah, I think they've, you know,

they did such a fantastic job with that because it's so impactful, it's just a moment. But it's, you know, after all of that, it's almost like the epilogue that roots us back down to, you know, reality and just two human beings without superhero capes. Just having a dance.

Just having a dance. But you did get to Don the Shield since we've last spoken. I've spoken to all, a bunch of folks that had participated in the scene in multiverse of madness was he Olson I took the Daniel Craig

who almost was there so what is your recollection because like was everybody there when you shot your stuff no John Cuisinski wasn't there Lashana Lynch was there Patrick Stewart wasn't there

so it was weird it was it was you know and I'm sure this is actually happening other people are going to be in the shot too right yeah it was but that sort of the nature, I think, of something of a scale of that big, that, you know, just

CGI is going to sort everything out. And it's very much the direct, it's felt, that felt very much the director in the editor's medium as opposed to the actor's medium. Because, you know, at one point there was this Patrick Stewart when he comes in. There was a guy that came in. And it was like he was on some sort of little contraption that had a cardboard yellow kind of cut out around it. And when he arrived, I remember in action, it's all very earnest. and very intense and then there's a slight delay

of his entrance and we just had the and then how he sort of has to turn in and then sit and there were a couple of times of the shot our shoulders were going because it's such

to be that earnest and then be undermined by this me it's the equipment of a fart cushion completely it's exactly that and then having to be like

who is the great man himself and you know so it was it was it felt but it also reminded me of drama school you know I've been like the color blue and a weeping willow tree you just you not many things embarrass me anymore right which is great so did you even know which characters were going to end up in that finished scene like I didn't I think that they were you know we did lots of different things lots of different takes and then they kind of way that they edit it was like oh suddenly just out of just very quick and I think they're kind of you know watching her I get a lot of so much slack. I'm like, it's not, wasn't my choice when they're like, you know, she's

like, I could do this all day. And they're followed by, she's immediately cut in half half by Frisbee. And, and then the audience being like, she can't do it all day. Apparently not. Apparently you can't. So, yeah, egg on your face. And I'm like, oh, it doesn't really serve Peggy very well. Did you, uh, did you practice that line in the mirrors? That's the equivalent of like Bond James Bond for you. You have, that's the moment. That's the line you want to nail. I didn't give it a second thought because, I didn't want to give myself too much pressure because if I'd practiced it

it's a bit like if you repeat a word over and over again it loses all meaning so it would be like I would have probably come in that day and been like I could do this all doing I would have been it would have been like the weight of it

would be like it would have been too much so I had and I also thought it's more of a throwaway line because in Peggy's mind she's not going I'm going to say the big Cat to America line she's as Peggy

Remember from the movie yeah to the camera Exactly. In Peggy's reality, she's just like loving being there in the moment. She's like, I'm built for this. So I had to kind of make sure that I was doing it in a way that just felt like a throwaway line. Is it out of your system now? Do you feel like you got your money's worth from... I felt like I had much more to do in the What If Animation series, which was, I mean, any actor will tell you to be able to go into a booth and effectively your pajamas. And doing animation, it's great fun because you're just, you're focused on the voice as the instrument and as your moment. main sort of performative tool and I love that in that they've been able to give her just more

to do as as Captain Carter, Captain Britain. So it felt like a frustrating moment in Strange because you're like, here we go, is it? No, we don't. That was quick. Okay. Yeah, she had less to do than what she did before before she had the shield. But what was really great was the, you know, coming in and doing even those stunt things, you know, when she does that kind of very quick run, but then sliding on my knees and like going over backwards. And I had come straight off the first time I was wrapped for Mission 7 because I was wrapped nine times.

Yeah. And so I went straight from the set of mission to the airport to L.A. wearing a, then put the outfit on, did one costume fitting and then straight in. And they were like, okay, this is the fight. And because I had been so like maintaining, that level of physicality, I was able to just, like, I want to do it all. Let me, let me have a go at this, and sliding on my knees was just great fun.

Seems cruel then. You're ready. You've got all the skills. We've, let's not like nip this in the bud too early. I know, I know. And they're like, no, no. With the RBC Avion visa, you can book any airline, any flight, any time. So start ticking off your travel list. Grand Canyon? Grand. Great barrier reef? Great. Galapagos? Galapagos? switch and get up to 55,000 avion points that never expire. Your idea of never missing out happens here.

Conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash avion. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the league, VEP, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspool, a podcast where you talk about good movies, critical hits.

Fan favorites, must see, and in case you missed them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Are you going to see Rogers the musical? You know this actually now exists.

What? They are performing it at a Disneyland now. Oh, wait. Like the version they did in Hawkeye. They built it out a bit. And you can watch like a. 45-minute version of Rogers

the musical that make you happy or sad or confused or I mean look give the people what they want right

there's my thoughts on that okay okay okay okay okay okay

it's official we are very much in the final sprint to election day and face it between debates polling releases, even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Nilke. I'm the host of Start Here, the daily podcast from ABC News, and every morning my team

and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel or Overwhelming. Speaking of theater, you were a creature of the theater. It's been a minute, I think. Was it right for the pandemic that you basically were on the stage? It was right before I got mission.

So 2019, I did Rosma's Home, a play that Ibson is the second most performed playwright in the world. This is a play hasn't usually been performed by, which is bizarre because it's so brilliant. But also it's probably because no one can pronounce it. So I remember there was a couple times on stage where I have to go, I have to say like, oh, yes, the ghost of Rosma's home. And sometimes they're like, the ghost is, you know, sorry? Rumblebum. I was like, maybe that's why it's not performed much, guys, because I don't pronounce it. But I had done that.

And also the adaptation, this guy, Duncan McMillan, who did lungs and people places and things, this brilliant playwright, he had basically taken the original text and wiped off all the dust, taken. away all the bum rolls and taken away that sort of thing that exists in those kind of melodramas where it just feels like everything's made of brown carpet you know and like like kind of melancholic kind of laborious you know everyone's dying of some sort of ancient disease right and so he just kind of refreshed all of that and it was it was amazing so then to be able to i think it was like a month later i was doing screen test for mission it's just going what is my life what am i doing have you been seeing any theater other in London or here? I did. I saw Motive in the queue the other day.

That's a national. Yeah. It's getting a West End. It's just finished, but it's getting a West End run, I think, in December. It's Mark Gatiss and Johnny Flynn. And they play John Gilgud and Richard Burton. And the play is about the very famous production that Gilgud directed Burton in of Hamlet that went on to be an absolute box office sensation. But the making of it was just fraught with two men who had. equal amount of insecurities about different things and how the tension between them

as two heavyweights of the acting of the theater and the Hollywood world. And it's so well done. And directed by Sam Mendez. Oh, okay. Sounds pretty good. Yeah. Have you ever done stage work here in New York? I haven't.

That's a bit surprising, no? I agree. I mean, you've, come on, guys. I think there's been an opportunity or two. You're just a busy lady. There were not, I don't think, I think it would be more of coming here and spending time here so that I was more, you know, was able to take meetings and meet more playwrights because there's, there's, it also means that, I mean, there was talk about Rosam's home coming over to New York and I think that would be something I would love to revisit it because it was so, it was such a great production. But it's, it's very rare that those British productions get brought over because it's a whole kind of business. Is there, do you find you? yourself generally more inspired by roles you see on stage or on screen or is it just like a good performance is a good performance that can that you can sink your teeth into? Good performance is

good performance. I think that when I was doing mission, McHugh has this incredible list. You might know about it, which is all the films that he loves and knows. And he was one of the first things he did when I got the job is like just to let you know for reference, these are all the films that inspire me. And if you want to know about, you know, look at, you know, look at what's up doc, look at, you know, heist movies, look at the train, look at Shane, Battles are Galaxica, like all his favorite films.

Now you're speaking my language, okay. Yeah, like all this stuff, Galaxy Quest is it, like, all this, like, so it's a real, real variety of things. And I, and ordinary people is in there, which is one of Tom's favorite films. And there's something about those older movies that feel so beautifully, naturally written. Like, I love the 70s Heist movies,

and I also love, the more domestic family dramas of like ordinary people. Kramer versus Kramer. Kramer versus Kramer, exactly. And then also the justice films like, you know, Dog Day Afternoon and all the president's men and, you know. All the sinule of that stuff. Yeah.

Surepico, all that great stuff. Exactly. And they feel to me, I get, I'm probably like most people watching would maybe relate to this, that there is such a, there's such an overwhelm of content now of new things coming out and films going to. to streamers or the cinematic experiences tend to, until now, thanks to Mr. Cruz. We're bringing it back. Saving Hollywood. But there is that, it's really hard for me to know

what to watch now. And so often I'll go back to those, that kind of a golden, a different kind of golden age. But with theater, I think when I was a kid, I just, I don't think I was aware of it at the time, but I think I would just be seeing much more better written characters for women. And I wouldn't necessarily think it was a gender thing for me. It was before I was sort of aware of any of that. But I would just, you know, watching people like Fiona Shaw, Juliette Stevenson or Judy Dench, and on that stage, with such command of their physicality and their voices, and there were complex women too. And a lot of them at the time weren't trying to be likable. There was something inherently likable in how relatable

they were. That to me, I think, was the thing that always kind of maybe sit forward and go, God, how do you do that? How, where, where, I want to, I want to learn how to do that. I think there is that tendency now because, like, every movie needs to deliver. There's not a tendency. I feel like there's a sense that no film can fail now, right? Yeah. And so you have to paint in very broad strokes because you don't want to risk nuance with

an audience and we're talking about the complexity of even, like, a character like grace or all the characters in mission. Like, there are shades of gray and contradictions, which is great and rare in a blockbuster. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, I think, why we don't see kind of those great dramas that are all about complexity and shades of gray because, oh, no, the audience needs, like, very obvious archetypes now. Yes, or, like, our concentration seems to, we are faster now than we ever were. Right. So it's this sense of, don't take too much time, like, go on to the next thing to kind of keep your concentration so you don't flick over to another channel or start scrolling through your phone.

But I think when you have a film that really trusts what it is and can be brave and how long it's, you know, how long it's. it's going to take to, like I felt that with, was it the power of the dog. Yeah. It was, it held my attention, but it was an unhurried film. Yes. And that's because the writing was so good, the performances. There's nothing, I love more than feeling like I'm in the deliberate, confident hands of a filmmaker that, like, take their time and knows where to put the

camera and just, I can just sit back and, like, not do any work. I'm going to let them take me on a ride. Yes. And that can be Jane Campion or it could be McHugh, it could be, as long as they know what they're doing. Yes, regardless of what the genre is. If it's fulfilling the requirements of that kind of structure of storytelling, then it can be a franchise or it can be a fantasy

or it can be a family drama and it engages you. Random question for you. Are you caught up on Succession? I am. Are you happy that your buddy, Matthew, despicable Matthew McFadion on the show, rose to the top? It's what he deserves.

He is truly, one of the greatest scene partners you could ever have. I'm lucky to work with him three times. And the, you know, that delicious feeling when you're at school and you're not allowed to laugh? Right.

And it's the most, like, it's the best feeling ever when your friend cracks a joking class and everyone is silent and you just lose it. It's one of my favorite feelings to have, like laughing, giggling uncontrollably, when it's inappropriate. And I would have that a lot with Matthew. He has this, like, he's just so,

he's a virtuoso. He can kind of, like, the music. musicality of what he does. Sounds kind of bizarre, like, a bit wistful to say that, but he's just so deeply talented and fun.

He's funny. We, you know, on Howard's end, we prank each other a lot. I remember you talking about your love of pranks. I would imagine on a mission said, that's probably not the best thing to do.

You don't want to, like, pull a prank when a guy is, like, jumping off a cliff on a motorcycle. No. No parachute. And not in COVID either. They're like,

oh, no, this is not the time. All the place. Although for Halloween, I did, I took one of the masks from the makeup trailer. And I decked out Simon Pegg's trailer in cobwebs and hanging skeletons and hid in the corner with the mask on and jumped out of him. That I got my fix. Right. Yeah. He can take it.

So we talked a little bit about all the franchise work. Are you going on franchises now? If Fast and Furious, if Harry Potter, if they come calling, is there interest? Anything that you have not, an itch that has not been skis? in the genre world of film? Well, I've done, I've been doing the voiceover for the animation of the new Laura Croft for Netflix, which is really fun.

Also, partly because all I have to do is go in in my pajamas and grunt a lot. And on screen, she's like jumping off a cliff or getting away from a zombie. And I'm like, I'm having a whale at a time. It's just like sipping on my green tea. It's the best of all possible world. Yeah, but I've really enjoyed that.

I think, yeah, it's less about, again, it's going, what is the, It entertains me and delights me to no end when they hire an actor who comes in and can have a go at progressing the genre a little bit by offering nuance or being offering a fresh perspective of going, you know, you can have a heroin that's not badass. You can have a heroin that is at times,

but then also full of self-doubt and not, yeah, just being going, you know, we could do lots of different things, and to your delight. It's not just to make a point, but this can exist for you to the benefit of the audience. Yeah, this is the danger, right?

It's like, because we have this conversation for many years, it's like, and rightfully so, you know, actress is talking about wanting to play strong characters, and that's great, but a lot of us are weak too at times. It's okay to show that complexity too. Yeah.

It's all, again, it's showing all the colors. Yes, and I remember there was an interview Emily Blunt did when she was promoting the English, which I just loved. Oh, yeah, beautiful. And she said something like, you know, She gets that questioned a lot of like, you know, what tracks are to strong characters? And she was like, it's nuance we want.

Not one thing because you're just then putting in one word to, you know, in place of what went before, like Fent, the sexy one or the damsel one. It's like, well, it's just, you're saying one thing. Yes. Yeah. And no one is that. Dub smash, Haley Atwell was dead, but long live TikTok, Haley out well. She's coming. Just getting my bearings.

Feel in the buzz. It's in the air. feeling it. You can feel I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I feel like a bit of like on a racetrack and the gates are about to open. Right. Because I'm just tipping my water going, is that how you do it? Is that good? Is that what you want? And then I think, I'm kind of, I'm like, I'm getting a bit of a taste for it. Who knows what I'm going to end up doing on that. Are you, are you studying the platform? Are you, you know, seeing what the algorithms tell you to do? Are you trying to figure out the right dances? What's, what's the prep like to unleash the inner

maniac heli out well on the world oh well it's like a i see i mean i'm so in awe of the people who do it well those accounts where it's an amazing edit and a dance and a twist and it's so funny it's the ones that are really funny and edited in a way particularly that involve for me that involve animals um which i'm like i can't compete with an and a bounding alsatian falling over a bucket i can't don't sell yourself short we don't know uh let's end with this Happy say I confused profoundly random question. There are some random questions as if these haven't been so random for you. Do you collect anything?

Oh, good question. Do I? Well, dad remembers when I collected trolls. The dolls, not natural. Okay. Yes. Mythical creatures. Yes, or the trolling of social media.

I definitely don't collect them. I block them. Is the collection still intact? The collection is still intact? The hairs are brushed. I didn't cut them. I didn't dismember them. They're all there. They're all just like happy to be there.

In fact, Dad, you don't know this, but when I was in Svalbard, the original troll, the designer, they had a beautiful selection. And I've bought one for you, Dad. There is one that I brought back from the Arctic, all the way from the Arctic. So I guess we are keeping that collection alive. Now, is the original collection, like is the childhood Haley bedroom filled still, like is it preserved with the trolls, like as it was when you were 14 years old? Like, is there a shrine?

That would be really creepy. It's not unprecedented. Some people have that. For me, there are tucked away in the basement, like a dirty secret. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Oh. Oh, it kind of, it switches. You know, sometimes I'm kind of clumsy with my fingers, and it kind of sets.

Right. But anyway, it's my fiancé with my two dogs, who was sort of like climbing all over his face. And then the other one is Venice, because it was, you know, it's so amazing to film there. and it was like it's such a poetic haunting place that yeah it's got a special place in the film by the way yeah last actor you were mistaken for god have you ever signed an autograph of a photo of someone else just like okay fine i'll sign it it's yes uh felicity jones sure yeah when i was doing uh a view from the bridge at the duke of york's theater guy really you know effusively came up to me. He was like, can I have you autograph? I was like, sure. And I looked down and I was

like, that's not me. And he's like, can you sign it anyway? I'm like, no, I'm not to facing Felicity's face. What's the worst note a director has ever given you? Oh, that's a good question. What? I'm going to out someone now. No, respectfully speaking, I remember doing a play with a very established older director and I had we were working out staging and we couldn't kind of work out what the best way of staging this bit was

so I just said oh maybe should I go downstage when this person goes across and he was like no no no no no I was like sorry sorry sorry and then the other actor much older said well why don't Haley come downstage and I'll go across

hadn't heard me and the director went oh yeah that's brilliant and then I said and I just was like it but a long time of a lot of this so I was like can I just say I've just said that and he he said I'm sorry

what can I say you're an actress underneath under the age of 30 why would I listen to anything you'd have to say he sort of poked fun

at how he said the quiet part out loud he said he said the quiet pot out loud to be like you know I know I'm self-aware enough

to know I'm being a dick I absolve myself of being an asshole no you just no you don't but you know and so that could have taught me

it was a really good turning point in my career though because I thought if I give a director or anyone too much authority of my performance and then if that director is not empowering me or not encouraging me or using kind of positive notes that are active then I'm it will have to I

it was my responsibility to self direct and so that was a you know I with respect to him now I you know I'm like well actually that made me in a way that made me go okay I'm going to have to make myself more visible then. Sadly, if that's the culture and the climate, then I'm not, it's either I buckle from that and I go away going, I'm not enough, or I go, oh, is that what we're dealing with? Okay, I need to

step up then. So it was, you know, it was actually kind of, I used it to my, you know, turned it to my favor. If you were to host a podcast, what would the subject matter be? What are you an expert in? That's the closest we've come to the return of the Tiffany voice, which you unveiled, five years ago. That was your American, which I miss. My God, yes. I love the, it's the, what is that? The fry, vocal fry. I love her. Because it's also, it's such a high status voice. It's like, I am so wealthy that I don't have to make any effort because, like, even speaking, making any effort is exhausting. It's like, it's such a power play. I love it. Um, podcast wise.

I can do this all day. Yeah. Podcast. Podcast. Oh, oh, that's a really good one. That's a, oh, God, I can't come up with anything. That's okay. I would say that it would be to do with, I'd love to sort of interview people, creative minds across the fields of, like, you know,

of culture and stuff. But maybe the through way in is something to do with their dog, because I love dogs. Okay, we'll talk about dogs off camera because that's a whole other conversation. Finally, in honor Pappy, second, fused, actor that always makes you happy. Matthew McFadden. A movie that makes you sad.

E.T. Last 10 minutes of E.T. Brilliant. Like almost no words. Yeah. Okay. And finally, food that makes you confused. Oh.

Mango and cream. Is it so prevalent that we need to worry about it as a thing? I didn't know mango and cream was a thing. Well, it's, if mango is put into a smoothie, that has. yogurt in it. Yep. Or like there, we had this ice lolly in the UK called the Salero, which was ice cream in the middle and mango around the outside.

Okay. I just couldn't, I can't go, I can't go on board with it. You're okay with the elements, mango and cream, but that's together. I love mango. It doesn't need to be fafed around to make it something it's not. It's not a creamy thing. It's a citrus, fruity, tropical number. Leave it alone.

Hell yeah, well, taking a stand, God damn it. You're amazing in this movie. you're amazing that you are way more coherent than I am after traveling the world for the last few weeks. Hopefully you'll take a little bit of a break soon. Again, for the audience out there, it's as if it needs to be said, Mission Impossible, Dead Reckoning. Part one. Need all your breath for that one. I'll see you hopefully for part two at some other far-flung location next year.

And thanks as always. It's good to see you. It's always a pleasure to see you. Thank you so much. Thank you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors, to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party, and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men

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