Happy Sad Confused - Heather Graham

Episode Date: February 27, 2018

You know Heather Graham for a slew of memorable roles -- whether it's Roller Girl in "Boogie Nights" or Felicity Shagwell in "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me" but her new role as a writer/director is clearly the one she's proudest of.  On this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", Graham visits Josh to talk about her passion project, "Half Magic", why it's more timely than ever, and of course reminisce about some of her most memorable films  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on Happy Sack Confused, Heather Graham on her directing debut and Time's Up. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to the show. Welcome, Sammy. Hi. I don't know if should I welcome you? I mean, you don't need a welcome. You're part of the show, so it's not like you're a guest.

I don't know. I like the welcome. I think it's like, because sometimes I'm not here. That's true. So you need to, essentially. Right at the beginning, whether they're going to fast forward the intro or not. They need to know. Don't you dare.

Don't you dare? Are you a little low energy, okay? I'm mad at you. I'm really mad at you right now, and everyone should know why. Why are you mad at me? Because everyone should know that on Wednesday, Josh was in Los Angeles with Ben Schwartz, friend of the family, friend of the show. And neither one of them decided to tell me that they were going to see Jeff Goldblum perform jazz. And so I'm just feeling a little dejected.

I'm upset. I'm feeling excluded. Sammy. Sammy. You weren't in, were you in Los Angeles? No. But you could have, you guys could have sent me a picture of the program? We want to respect Jeff Goldblum's wishes and keep it private.

That's fine. Okay, so by the way, I just want to say this as a service to people out there. The Jeff Goldblum jazz, which he does almost every week if he's in town. Oh, my God. At a venue called Rockwell, the best ticket in town. It's like you're digging the knife deeper as we speak. Well, obviously it's the best. What is Jeff Goldblum ever done that isn't the best? It's sheer joy for two hours of Goldblum. That's not even that expensive, guys. Get in on that. Look it up. I'm sorry, Sammy.

Thank you. Is that what you wanted? It's okay. We can move on. We're great now. Has Ben apologized to you? Oh, no. He didn't. Wow. This is, this is going to be bad. This is going to be really bad. Josh Harrow, it's wrecking relationships for four decades. Yeah. Um, yes, I had a quick jaunt to L.A. Uh, headed back out there soon for... Yeah, you're going to be there for a while. For Oscar shenanigans.

Um, yeah, it's gonna be fun. Are you looking for the Oscars this year? Yes. Who are you running for? Very much so. What's your one? What's your... My most unexpected...

Well, the one movie I really had no interest in seeing is my, by far favorite. Shape of Water. S-O-W. I... S-O-dubs. as I call it. I love everything about that movie. I don't know if I knew that you fell for it so hard. You don't even

know, you don't care about me at all. You don't invite me to Jeff Goldblum. You don't know I like shape of water. No, that was... Well, you do like fishmen. Exactly. It was finally, like, everything I had always sort of dreamed about. Your match.com profile. You're like seeking fishman, no man.

Being best friends with Richard Jenkins was really the main thing in my dream journal. But, yeah, so I'm really hoping that that movie sweeps. And Logan. I just want Logan to win that award. Screenplay. That's amazing I got in there. It won't win. I'm sorry to tell you. Oh, cool. I'm just, I just want to prepare you for disappointment. Shape of Water will very likely win. I would say director. Guillermo is the favorite. We love him here. Who doesn't love Guillermo? If you don't love Guillermo, I don't want to

know you. I don't like you. He's a perfect human being. And Shape of Water, I think, you know, I think it will win, but I don't know. I'm kind of, if I had to bet, right now, I might go with three billboards. Really? I just... It just won the BAFTA. It's... Whatever.

I like that movie a lot, but as a full, like, whole piece of art, it does not compare. Well, I don't know. I'm not endorsing one over the other. I'm just simply saying... I love Rockwell, though. Yes.

Love France. Great. Yes. So, I think it'll be a good Oscars in that. I think it's going to... I don't think one film's going to sweep. I think you're going to see acknowledgement for... I don't think one film's going to win seven awards. I think you're going to see...

see get out win an award and Lady Bird get an award and shape of water and so I think I think that there's love to go around so in that way I'm excited for it and I love Camel yeah he'll be good yeah um so yes I'll be I'll be covering the Oscars here a little bit different than I have before yeah I'll be a part of the E team so check me out in ease coverage in the I believe it's like the countdown show are you going to be doing the in charge of the fashion cam yeah You'll be doing, like, the fashion recap. Yeah, when I say I'm working the E carpet, it means I'm actually operating the fashion cam. I've now gone.

The manny cam. Yeah, perfect. There's actually a petty cam now this year. I'm doing the pet. Finally. No. I am, I'm with Kristen DeSantos. The expert.

We are going to be kind of weighing in on categories and stuff. Awesome. So if you want to check out my pearls of wisdom, watch the E. red carpet. I'll watch it. Wow, thanks. I'll watch it. Thanks for dating to watch it. I'll turn it on in the background

So, yeah, so there's that coming up And of course the main event on today's show is Heather Graham. Heather Graham, we all know Heather Graham. Everybody knows Heather Graham, whether it's Austin Powers or Boogie Knights. She's had a hangover, she's had an eclectic long career, I mean, going all the way back to, you know, license the drive and what was it, a drugstore cowboy? So, yeah, she's definitely lived different kinds of lives

in cinema and now is living a new life as a writer-director. Her new film is half-magic. It's kind of like a broad sex comedy in a way that is startlingly relevant in these times. It's a film about harassment in the workplace. It's a film about an actor or, sorry, a writer who, a female writer who wants to make a movie, much like Heather Graham was a, was a actress who wanted to make a movie and was kind of shut down by men and in Hollywood. That's kind of what her character experience is in this. It's getting very good reviews and it is available

I believe on iTunes and all VOD and all those kind of shenanigans. It's also in I think 10 cities around the U.S. So check out half magic. Heather was a delight to chat with. We cover it all from her upbringing. Yes, of course we dig into Boogie Knights. My favorite Bofinger.

Bofinger. Love Bofinger. She's so good in that. I forgot about Bofinger. holds up great movie great movie um and uh yeah we talk about it all she's very frank also in talking about you know she's had she had her own Weinstein experiences she's written about she's worked for james tovac she's definitely worked with some of the notorious uh gross people in hollywood and has lived to tell the tale so kudos to her to um surviving it and having a thriving

career and now trying out new things and really pushing this this film into existence which is very much a passion project so hope you guys enjoy this conversation with Heather Graham, of course. The delightful Heather Graham. Well, let's go with delightful. I would do that. Okay. Review.

Rate. Subscribe. And subscribe. Yeah. iTunes. Your love and acknowledgement is appreciated. And spread the good word. It fuels us.

Yeah. That's all I have. Yeah. Without it, we deteriorate into nothing. That and Diet Coke. I'm starting at your can of Diet Coke. Don't. How many cans of Diet Coke do you go through a day?

I cut down to one. So that leads me to where you had a problem. Don't, you do too. Don't come here and pretend like you haven't had a Diet Coke when we were on set at 7.30 in the morning. You go in to the Diet Coke. I do. I do. Sometimes on weekends, I'll have two.

Have you tried the new, if I'm treating myself? Have you tried the new, these flavored Diet Coke? I'm actually pretty angry about them. You're a psychopath. I know. I really. There's like a fucking mango or ginger, so I'm like, nobody wants mango diet Coke. Here's what I don't like.

I don't like that they're in those thin bottles. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, it's like an energy, you're having Red Bull or something. It's like we're like I'm having one of those like carbonated seltzer vodka drinks. Yeah. Fuck you, Coca-Cola. We're upset. As we drink on Coca-Cola beverage.

As I'm like shotguning my Diet Coke here. Happy Second Fuse, brought to you by R.C. Cola. Uh, enjoy, if you want to, yeah, no, seriously. We'll try all the flavors if you want to send them to us. Yeah, send a case over. Yeah, and I'll say good things about them even if I don't believe it. You're a soulless creature. I'm easily bought.

Uh, enjoy this conversation with, uh, the delightful, as mentioned, Heather Graham. Heather Graham, welcome to my office. Thanks for having me in your office. It's good to see you. Um, congratulations. on the movie. Movies half magic. We're going to talk a lot about that.

We're going to talk a lot about many things. When I saw you last, I hadn't actually gotten a chance to see the movie. So, you know, this is a big moment. Congratulations. I mean, I really enjoyed it. It's, I know this is like a real, I mean, even pet project makes it sound like minimal.

This is a passion project, to say the least. So just give me a sense, has this, like, press store felt different than the many you've been over your career? It feels totally different, because I feel like it's my baby. You know, I've been working on it for seven years, and it just has a message that I think is so beautiful, important to get out there.

And I just, it's like a labor of love. So talking about women's issues makes me so happy. Like, I love talking about it. Yeah. Do you notice, as you've been talking to people, like, is there a different way that men talk to you about this film than women? Have you noticed anything?

There are, you know, there's been a few men that got a bit offended or maybe they didn't get it. But I think recently a lot of people have been getting it. So it's such a relief to talk to people who get it. Definitely a lot of women get it and a lot of men get it too. What's the worry? What was the worry you had about like the wrong way to interpret something like this that's... Well, I guess what I wanted to do

was tell a story that had an important message but that in a light, funny and sexy way. Right. So you could, you know, I wanted it like the message to be underneath that and so I'm just grateful that some people are seeing that. Yeah. Yeah. Like so the the film you shot a little ways back you've had time to kind of like noodle around in the edit room I would imagine did anything change in the way in like the way like our world changed I know like six months ago or whatever yeah post like Weinstein and me too and times up did you get

back in the edit room and think oh I can I can fiddle with things a little bit more did it feel like the cut is the cut this is the film I wanted to tell sorry I wanted to tell we didn't go back in the editing room but I have to say watching the movie after all that stuff happened it seems like a totally different movie because you're looking at it and you're going, wow, because I wrote a movie about Hollywood and a woman in Hollywood dealing with harassment and sexism and how she's trying to make movies about women. She has a sexual harasser boss. And it just, it seems like the movie's better now after all this stuff happened. Yeah, it's crazy. It's, it's bizarre, actually. And it's also, like, fascinating because it's like, as you well know, it's kind of this like meta narrative.

It's like, you know, you're the protagonist, the character you play, you know, is a woman who's, like, trying to be creative and trying to, like, make films and is being kind of shot down by these kind of oppressive male figures. And as we'll get into, that's kind of what you've experienced over the years. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. So, um, how are you with, again, considering this is your baby? Are you, are you the kind of actor and filmmaker that, like, is okay with reviews? Either way, like, over the years have reviews been something you've, like, paid attention to? Are you able to shut them out? And what's it like in this case for you? Well, um, I guess as I usually, don't read them just because

you can really get it in your head and then it can make you go like, oh, I kind of go crazy. But, um, so on this I was not going to look at them, but then some friends have been telling me that a lot of them have been good, which is pretty awesome. And somebody, I haven't actually read them all, but somebody told me that the, whatever, the variety review says, that I rage against the

Hollywood machine. And I'm like, that's fucking awesome. It's true, because underneath it, I am angry. And it's told in this kind of funny way, but I am raging against the machine. I thought that was cool how, how the writer worded that. Amazing. Okay. So, okay, so let's come full circle. I promise we're going to come back around to half magic, but since we have some time, let's talk career stuff and just, and background. So correct me if I'm wrong. I grew up in Wisconsin, but relatively

early on, moved to California. We actually, my dad was in the FBI, and he was, he got a promotion, and he's from Philadelphia, and we moved to Wisconsin, and then we moved to Washington, D.C. suburbs living in Virginia for five years, and then I moved to California when I was nine. Gotcha. And that was your coming of age years, as it's safe to say. And yet we were talking before, you've kind of made your home mostly now in New York, as I understand this. Yeah, I mean, I still have my house in L.A., so I go back and forth. Got it. So what do you consider somebody asks like where you're from now? What do you say? I mean, because I grew up in California from, you know, I would live there during my teenage years. I do feel like I've spent more time living there, but I do love being in New York. Like, it's so fun to be back here. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you remember when you were a kid, when you guys moved to California? Was that something you were excited for? You know, I think when I first moved to California, I really didn't like it. Because we were living in Virginia, and there were a lot of trees in our backyard, and I was a little tomboy. And we moved to California, it seemed like, oh, people are more superficial, and it just, I felt really awkward in the school. And I think it was just a very puberty time where you already feel awkward, and then it was, like, doubly awkward moving during that time. But now I do, I do love it. I love it.

But it's great to get away sometimes, too. Yeah. I mean, because I heard you say that before about, like, kind of like your teen years, like feeling kind of awkward. Yeah. And I'm curious because, like, you know, is that Heather Graham awkward standards or Josh Harwood's awkward standards? You know what I think?

Like, I'm imagining if I looked at your pictures of high school, I'm like, yeah, okay, you might have felt awkward in my sphere. Well, I had neck gear. Did you ever wear neck gear? No, like you'd be trying to, like, press for the teeth, like around your neck? Yes. Okay. Okay, you win.

Okay. Right? I wore neck gear. I mean, I was pretty nerdy and not dressing well, you know, and just really, I was in advanced placement classes. So I would be in those classes with all the people. And I remember just looking at the cheerleaders and just being so jealous and like, I wish I could be cool and pretty like those cheerleaders. That's so busy. It must be, it would have been like kind of like a, forgive my terminology, a bit of a mind fuck when you start to like play. No, that was so weird. Because as a teenager, when I go audition for things, they're like, okay, well, you audition for the popular pretty. cheerleader. I'm like, but that's not me. I'm like the weird nerdy girl, you know, theater geek, you know? So it was funny that I then started playing these parts as if I was that type of person when I had never been that type of person. Did you, yeah, that's so fascinating. Like, um, and I would imagine from this, you know, from the start, and this happens

for any actor, you deal with the kind of like, you're judged by your appearance. Let's be frank, like especially like in your industry and like you fit into a certain box. And I can only imagine for you over the years from when you started out, you walk into a room and they assume certain things about you, what kind of a person you are. Yeah, I mean, as a kid, it was weird because I actually love that they saw me in a different way. Because I was like, please think I'm pretty. No one at my high school really thought I was pretty. I wasn't really getting asked out on a lot of dates. So when I was seen as that and cast as that, it was fun. But then in a certain point, you think, well, actually, that's not really me. Like, I'm so much more than that. And then,

know that's a different thing yeah yeah so you mentioned like when you say you were nerdy it sounds like you were really good in school and you were like I basically had a high IQ so I got put in these special like more difficult classes so all the people that were in my classes were all the people that were like taking harder classes and that were all nerdy pretty much and what so what were you into outside of classes at that point like were you into film and TV and stuff because I know your family kind of yeah my family was conservative so I wasn't allowed to watch R-rated movies, but I love movies. I remember watching The Godfather and Sophie's choice and, you know, when I was a kid, The Wizard of Oz and Tootsie. Classic. Oh my God,

yeah. So what, and were you able to kind of like sneak in an R-rated movie outside of your parents' purview? If I was at my friend's house, I might be able. But yeah, I remember watching Fast Times at Ridgemont High because I was babysitting, you know? I'm like, when I babysit, then I can watch this stuff because they would not let me go to see an R-rated movie. And it's for people that see this movie, I'm guessing that there's, I mean, there's a lot in here that I would guess is pulled from your life in different ways. And like the opening scene is literally something that I could imagine maybe kind from your child. No, it's 100%. Basically, um, I was watching the love boat with my father and he, you know, we watch TV together sometimes and you know, in the love

boat they'd kiss and they go into their like room on the boat together, you know, and then it would cut and be like, what those two people are doing is very wrong. They're having premarital sex and you can go to hell for that. You know, at the time it was just frightening. I'm like, this is so, Gary, what's he talking about? And then looking back, I'm like, that's pretty hilarious. Like, it's just so ridiculous. I mean, are you curious about, like, I don't know, you know, I don't want to, like, get invasive about your family stuff, but, like, what your family would make of this film,

I don't know who you're in touch with or not, but, like, when you kind of, like, went through this process of making the film, because it is, in some ways, biographical. Are you curious, like, what they would make of the stuff in here? I think they, you know, they try to be supportive, but they're just very conservative. It's just, like, a different generation of looking at things. things. And I'm just so glad I'm not in that generation. As the years go by, do you become, like, more or less forgiving of sort of the way you were brought up. Because, again, it's all context, I guess. It's like they were brought up in a different

world and what their parents raised them on. Did you grow up? Like, how did your parents approach sex and stuff? I'm like, you know, like upper west side liberals. Like, I'm like kind of stereotypical. So that sounds good. You had a good time in that way. Yeah, exactly. But not so much for you. You felt a little stifled. No, I mean, I feel like there's a lot of doom and gloom. It's like, hell. It would be like, you're going to go to hell, you're going to go to hell, which is what I put in my movie. It's always like, you might go to hell. It's big stakes to put on a kid early on. Yeah, it's always like Satan and hell. It's so dramatic. It's just so overdramatic. That's why I like to find the humor. And it's just like, you might go to hell. You know, it's just

like, oh, really? I don't think so, you know? That's amazing. And at what point did you start to, were you doing school plays and stuff by the time you were in high school? That's why I think, yeah, I, you know, when you're a kid and I auditioned for plays and I would get cast in plays and I would get the lead sometimes. And so I guess I thought, oh, this is a way I can get attention and distinguish myself. And when did that kind of turn serious? When did you start to go on auditions or model or act or whatever? Well, actually, I think when I moved to California, because the move was hard and I had to leave all my friends and then I became a little bit introverted and just felt like I didn't really have a lot of friends. And I think it started to become a dream like, okay, I'm going to, I want to be an actress and I'm going to be in these plays. And it just was a way for me to express myself when I felt very awkward and insecure and shy. Right. It gives you a little self-confidence. It gives you an outlet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

So, and were you, like, was there, like, a model kind of actor or career that you envisioned when you were starting out? Or were you just sort of like, this whole? I mean, Merrill Street, for sure. I remember watching Merrill Street movies and just, like, I loved her so much. I remember watching Sophie's Choice and just being like, wow, she's so cool. And Kramer versus Kramer. And Dustin Hoffman, I'm so sad that people are. said those stories about him because he's definitely someone that I always watched and really liked

his work. Well, this is a little bit of a tangent, but you bring it up. I mean, I'm curious because we're all wrestling with this right now. It's like, I feel the same way. It's like, and it's like, and I can name a dozen of these. Some people are like, yes, that guy needs to go down. He's horrible. But then other people like, what a bummer. I watched Tootsie like a hundred times. I know. And it's like, and it's going to change the way you watch it from here on out. Are you already experiencing that? It sounds like you are. When you start to think back of Tootsie, it's like, there's a little tinge now. There's like, I know there's a little titsy. I know there's a little tinge.

But, dot, dot, dot. Yeah, there's a tinge. There is a tinge. What was the first first big audition? Do you remember? That you were like, you felt there was a lot riding on,

you were super excited about. Well, I remember auditioning for license to drive, and I was excited about that, which I got, yeah. And then I remember drugstore cowboy. And then actually I did, I got a part in the original heathers, but I was living at home with my family,

and they told me I couldn't do it because there was a lot of whatever. They thought it was too R-rated. But yeah, I remember those auditions. And it's so exciting when you're just a kid and your life is a very sheltered suburban life and then suddenly you get thrown into this Hollywood world. It was really fun.

So License Drive was the first film, right? Yes. And was the first TV show, was that Growing Pains also? Yes. You were like, you did a lot of research. Well, just looking at, when I'm looking at the resume, I'm like, I can't think of two more like projects more closely associated with that era.

You know what I mean? The Corries and Growing Pays. Oh my God. I had a huge crush on Kirk Cameron. Like, he was so cute. Right. Your parents might have approved, given his upbringing. He's so religious, yeah. What might have been? Yeah, totally. So, and then license, do you, what do you remember about License Drive? Did you feel like comfortable in that kind of environment or did it feel like this feels natural or did it feel like what the hell have I gotten myself into? Well, I think I felt really awkward at school and I didn't

feel like a fit in. So when I went and worked on movies, I did feel like, oh, I get to be around these artistic people and that was fun and just like driving onto the 20th century fox lot. I just remember like as a kid this, it blew my mind that they were going to like give me a pass to drive onto this lot to be in a movie. It was so exciting. And I mean, I thought Corey Heyman and Corey Feldman were really cool. I was a fan. I'd watch their movies. And I mean, I think that they were just a lot more wild and, and, and I mean, I think they were doing drugs and stuff. And I was pretty innocent and had not really done. You know, I had a guardian. They were emancipated minors. They just seemed like really exotic

Like here's these famous actors And they do drugs and you know whatever Again probably for the best you kept to yourself I know I'm really sad about those stories too Yeah I just ran into Corey Feldman actually Is that right? Yeah Corey yeah I don't want to bring it down too much

I'm at Cory Ham I think I did one of the last interviews He came by and he was he was a Yeah he was a very sweet guy But it was like clearly like there had been damage Like he'd been through it What did he say like what did you get out of that conversation I got what I got out was like Here's a sweet guy that's this is like

Why you don't do drugs, frankly. Like, because, like, he clearly was not right. Yeah. Not a well guy. But, I mean, looking back at the transition, you already mentioned, you know, early on you do License the Drive and then you do Gus Van Sant film. Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

So did that feel like just like apples and oranges? Like going from a license to Dry the Corey's movie to a Gus Van Sant set. I mean, they were both pretty exciting, I have to say. Because if you think about, okay, I've been living in suburbia and the only culture happening there is the mall, right? And then I'm going on a movie set. Like, they both seem like. insanely exciting. I mean, Drugs for Cabo definitely was more of like an artistic, you know,

I met these people that were reading Charles Bukowski and John Fonte, you know, William Burroughs was wandering around the set. It was just like my mind was like blown by the fact that I was not really exposed to this stuff before. I remember like someone playing Tom Waits and me thinking like, all I've listened to is top 40 and now I know who Tom Waits is. That's so exciting. That's quite a tribe by fire. William Burroughs in one corner of Tom Waits and Gus Van Sant's. Totally. Did you, I'm curious, like early on, did you feel like you have to like a peer group like did you have like other actors that were either going up for the same roles or that you felt like you could lean on like did you feel like you had a community or were you

on your own well I guess when I was in high school I definitely felt like I was a little bit weird so when I went into Hollywood I got to hang out with like other actors and you know people working in the film business I felt like oh I now I found my people you know these people are like weird artistic people like me so that felt good the um swingers remains one of uh you know the standouts obviously in your career. How massive a surprise was that to you in terms of what it turned out to be? It was really cool. I mean, if you think about the budget being $250,000, that's crazy, right? And like, you know, nobody knew who Vince Vaughn was and John Favro. I mean, it was fun. We used to go practice swing dancing together. I think we went like for a month

every single night and practice swing dancing. And I just did it for fun. I didn't think like, oh, this will be a classic or this is going to be a big hit. So it was kind of exciting. That was shot, because I was just in LA a couple days ago, and I was in Los Feliz. Was that like the Derby? Yeah, and the Dresden. Yeah, the Derby and the Dresden, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, but it was cool because our budget was so low.

So they couldn't, like, shut down the place where we were shooting and then put extras in there like they normally do. So they would just leave it open for business, just all people would be there for the night, just drinking out for the night. And we would film there at the same time. It just people were hanging out there. This is for the folks listening. This is not how movies are done. It is not. I mean, yeah, yeah.

I mean, they had no money. And, like, I would be doing a scene with John, and, like, people would just keep sitting in his seat, like, where he was going to sit. We'd be like, no, no, no, we're shooting, you know? And they're like, oh, because it was like, the crew was so small. They didn't even see that we were shooting. Yeah, it's like a mini documentary behind the scenes crew or something. So, um, boogie nights, of course, which, you know, for context, I think people, like, needs to remember that Paul Thomas Anderson wasn't Paul Thomas Anderson then. He had had one film, which was a great film.

I mean, I'm a big fan of heart eight. But at that time, did that feel like, because I was a little. So for you, I think correct me if I'm wrong, like the first time, like a pretty explicit sexual role, did it feel like you were like taking a risk? Yeah, it did. But I guess I thought his writing was so good. And there were a lot of big actors in it. And it did. I mean, people, you're doing a movie about the porn world.

And prior to that, I don't think there was really any legitimate movies being made about that kind of subject matter. So it was just like, is this going to be really exploitive or is this going to be great because the script is so good. But for me at that time, I was just really grateful also to have a job because, you know, it's not that easy to. get acting work. Were people around you, friends or agents or whatever, supportive, did they think that was the right thing at the time? Or were people like, this could look bad on a resume if this doesn't turn out? I think at the time, like, I was not, you know, a known actress.

So it was like, this is a good shot for you. Right. It's worth the shot. Yeah. Did you, I'm curious, did you read, like, with other jerk diglers? Because I remember, like, Leonardo was up for it. Isn't that funny? I remember him talking about that.

Yeah. Was it always marked with you? No, I mean, by the time I was cast, he was already cast. Like, I think he was cast Julianne Moore. was cast, Bert Reynolds was cast. Gotcha. So that most of the people were cast before I got cast. Did you, just because I'm fascinated by the film and I've read so much about it and

it's infamously, you know, Bert, has talked about, like, how he was, you know, not necessarily in sync with Paul and was worried about it. Did you get that sense that Bert Reynolds was not, like, having it at the time? I think I remember one day he, like, yelled at Paul or something. And I think, yeah, I just remember that. And he yelled at Paul one day and he just, like, lost it on it. Wow. Yeah.

I'm curiously, have you noticed the difference over the years, like having done, you know, a few sex scenes being directed by a man or a woman for a sex scene? Is that something that you've noticed like a difference in and the way you're directed in a scene like that? I don't know that I've really ever done a sex scene with a female director. I think I've only done them with male directors. You're directing yourself. Yeah, when I work with myself, that was really. Well, let me ask you this way. Like, are there right or wrong ways that's...

in a very sensitive situation like that that you feel like you've witnessed or... Well, you know, I don't... Yeah, it's always kind of awkward to do a sex scene, but I don't think I've ever been, you know, treated abusively shooting a sex scene. I feel like it's more of... Sometimes it's just told from a male point of view.

So you're just like, oh, these stories aren't being told from a female point of view, which can be frustrating. But I don't feel like anyone's ever treated me in a bad way doing a sex scene. I think it's frightening to do them and it's scary to be naked because it's... You feel self-conscious, but as an actor,

you just try to lose yourself in the story and then you can just at a certain point if you forget about it you can just forget you know you can just be in the moment yeah yeah yeah um I have a super random question because I'm sure nobody's asked you about lost in space today oh my god yeah no

I was always fascinated by lost in space because I had a I think I've seen every movie well look at my walls here I was obsessed at the time I think I'm always had an obsession with strange CGI creatures and I was obsessed with Blarp remember Blarp Do you and Barp keep in touch, the CGI monkey?

No. What? I don't forget. Who is that? You don't even remember Barp? No. Whoa, this is amazing that I remember. Was this in Lost in space?

Yes. The TV show or the movie? The movie you were in. Really? Okay. That's how much. You've walked it out. All right now I'm remembering it.

Wait, there was a CGI monkey. Okay, yes. Okay, yes. I do remember this. I do remember right now. And his name was Barp. Yeah. And it's the defining characteristic of Barp, which clearly I only remember is that

Barp would communicate by saying his own name. I'll give you a little barb. Maybe this will jogger. Okay, okay. Blar! Does that bring you back? No, I do remember. I feel like we were doing a scene and we were hanging from a spaceship and then the monkey

was in that scene. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, monkeys was all over the place. He was like your co-star. Yes. He was a CGI co-star. I think we had to have a match. Was he a CGI and Matt LeBlanc?

No, he was real. So, oh yeah, another one I have to mention is a bowfinger. Oh, I know. I love Bowfinger. It's so good. So, and that character is a fascinating character, too. Yeah. Because it's like,

We're talking about sort of like, you know, dealing with preconceived notions. You know, she's seemingly the archetype of like just off the bus actor, but it turns out to be almost the most conniving one in the group. I don't know. Just going to be like, what are the first things you think of? Is it about the character? Is it about working with Steve and Eddie or Frank Oz? There's so much to that. I just think it was really special.

I feel proud of it. And, yeah, I mean, first of all, Steve Martin, just to even get to work with him. It's so cool. I remember being a kid and watching Saturday Night Live and remember him. I'm doing like King Tutskid or wild and crazy guy. Like he's really cool. And I don't know. I just think it was a well-written funny movie.

Was there, I remember talk at the time, and I wanted to get into scurrilous gossip, but that that character was based on Anne Heish. I remember the talk of the time, too. Yeah. Is there any discussion of that? I mean, I don't know. I mean, it wasn't like he walked around saying, you're Anne Hish, you know what I mean? But I guess because she had just come out with Ellen, being with Ellen at that moment.

And my character at the end shows up with like a powerful female. well, lesbian, but, yeah. Read into it what you will. I'll ask Steve when he comes on the podcast. Got asked Steve that, yeah. So, you know, we've talked about the different kinds of roles you've done. And it feels like, though, like, unfortunately, it seems every actor, every actress, I should say, ends up playing, you know, the sex workers, honestly, right? Like the prostitute, the stripper, the porn star, and you've done all of those.

You know, I look at the next thing, you know, on the resume, it's like, oh, there's from hell and there's the hangover. And these are good, interesting roles, interesting films. But I'm curious, like, how aware were you of that and of trying to, like, avoid that kind of stuff? We're just saying, you know, this is the best material I'm getting, and I'm just going to go with it. Yeah, well, I mean, it's like as an actress, you want to be in a good film. So that's your first priority. And then, of course, you're going, yeah, I want to play the intelligent, whatever. But, I mean, there's not that many roles like that for women.

Unfortunately, that's why I wrote and directed my own movie, because it's, you know, men write most of the movies and direct most of the movies, and they love. love this prostitute stripper character. They just write it all the time. And it's like their fun way to, you know, I guess they have this maybe fetish about women that are doing these things and they love to write those characters. It's a little disturbing when we dig into it a little bit. Yeah. But then the funny thing is these men are writing these characters and making it into this very

sexualized person. And then they're like, they look at you as if you are that person and not the mind of the man that wrote it. You know, it's like, I'm acting out his weird fantasy. Yeah, don't blame me. Yeah. I just work here. It's fun, to be honest, as an actor, sometimes.

it can be fun playing roles that are sort of out there and wild and something that you would never really do in your life. So it is kind of fun playing those roles. But obviously when I wrote and directed my own movie, I did not write it about a stripper. Right. Right. Because it strikes me like, again, when I look at sort of your body of work, like you, you clearly like to work. Like you are a worker. Yeah, I like to thrive on it. And also, you know, it's nice to have money to pay your bills. No, of course, of course. But I love working as well. I do. I feel so grateful to do a job that I love. And it's kind of the philosophy over the years been like, you know, the nature of the beast. Some of the jobs will be more rewarding than others.

But like, again, for a variety of reasons, sometimes to pay the bills, but also because I... That's true. And also, I think sometimes you don't really know. Like, in the case of Swingers, right? You're not making this movie. You're just like, I'm going to go to work. It sounds fun. There's something good about this.

And then you kind of, it's kind of luck or, you know, a fluke. Sometimes you don't know, oh, is this going to be good or not. Like, you don't always look at a script and go, oh, I know for sure this is going to be great. You're like, it might be good. So sometimes you just roll the... dice it's like a gambling game yeah and i would think and then you you experience the you know snake eyes on something like swingers you're like oh wait i could that could happen again i'm gonna keep trying yeah yeah how soon into like uh shooting a film do you kind of like know what you're in

like no like okay this is sometimes you honestly don't know until it's done like you might be working on something and think it's great and it's not or you might not think something's great and it is but i think usually if there's like a you can tell if there's a really good feeling but you never 100% know yeah okay so so getting to Half Magic and your directing debut and screenwriting debut you'd want to do something like this whether I know there were other projects

you were trying to develop as well did you feel so I guess maybe one of the advantage of it taking so long to kind of get to the point where you were actually had the money and you were on a set is like you were probably ready when you had gone over this in your head

a thousand times did it feel that way by the time you were on set you're like this isn't as scary as maybe it was so prepared really really prepared I mean I was still scared because I'd never done it before, so I was totally nervous, but I was extremely prepared. Yeah. So what do you, did you draw more on the, on the successful directors you've worked with or the ones that you hated when you got on set? Like, these are the things I want to do, or these are the things I want to avoid? Um, I did watch certain movies and, and study them and say,

okay, I want to maybe do something similar. Like, I want to shoot, shoot the shots in a way like this one movie. Or I want to make the actors feel really supported, like how Paul Thomas Anderson's super supportive director, you know? But then at the end of the day, you're just, you kind of just, it just kind of comes to you in the moment. I think I was just so happy to be doing it that I just radiated that I loved being there and doing it. And I just, like, was so happy that the actors that showed up were so amazing and just,

I was so happy that they agreed to work with me. So I think I was just doing something I loved. So that just comes through. Are most of the actors in the film people that you knew going in, like, or is Christelia a friend? I mean, I knew Chris a little bit. We weren't close friends, but I was a huge fan. I had hung out with him a few times, and I definitely wanted him to be in the movie.

So I kept, like, writing him like, Chris, I want you to be in my movie and trying to just, like, get him to... He's disturbingly good in this, almost to the point you were like, hmm. I know. I know. He's really good. I remember, like, talking the financier about hiring him, because I'm like, this guy is so talented. I'm like, he's going to be a star. And, you know, the financier at first was like, I don't know, you know.

And then finally, he let me hire him, which was great. Nice. I have to say, most of the guys in the film, not such great guys. kind of like an all almost like uniquely horrible in different ways yeah yeah yeah um like is chris for instance playing a caricature of people you've experienced or are those have people you've experienced that well i think the tone of the film is a comedy so it's slightly exaggerated in that sense but i think it's real like i know guys that act like that yes it's a hundred percent real that people treat other people that way and say these there's so many men that i've worked with

that have no filter and they just think it's so charming for them to just say whatever comes out of their mouth, no matter how raunchy and disgusting. And usually these are guys that are very successful. They are very rich. So everyone just kisses their ass, basically. And then the flip side, if a woman does it, they're considered crude and what's wrong with her? Like, yeah, I mean, there's not as many women in power. So it's like, these guys are getting away with it until hopefully now. Exactly. Were you, were you hearing, like, what was the kind of feedback you were getting when you were trying to get a film made that would maybe upset

those of us that think better of people. What's the... Well, I guess they said, oh, this business model, you know, no one's going to give you the money. Nobody cares about women's stories. Women's movies don't make money. If you want to get a movie made right about a man,

I put all these frustrating lines into my movie, too. But people say, like, you're not a big enough star. Get a male star. Get a famous male star, and then we'll give you the money. That's crazy. It's also crazy because it's like you can literally, you know, if Hollywood's just about the math, you can point to a chart. That's the thing. They would put it through the charts and go, oh, this doesn't work in our chart and the models that we've, that are usually made so we don't want to make it because it's not financeable or whatever.

It doesn't run through their, the numbers don't. It seems like even though that's bullshit even, right? It is bullshit. If you look at things like bridesmaids, girls trip, like the ones when you actually get a female ensemble together. I know, so why don't they make more? That's what I'm saying. That's like my girlfriend came to see one of the screening. and she said to her boyfriend when they were leaving,

she's like, you don't know how important it is for us to see ourselves as protagonists in this kind of movie. Like, you get five buddy comedies a week that you can watch, but we get one every two years. Like, do you know how important it is to see our stories told and for us to see ourselves as the protagonist? It doesn't happen that much. I mean, that's also the conversation

in a much different way, like Black Panther right now. It's all about representating. I want to see that. It's a very good movie, but it's almost like it's beyond the movie. It's what you're talking about. It's like there's a profundity of watching, I'm just seeing on screen. Like, you've literally never seen that, like an all black cast in that kind of setting.

So, maybe, you know, some of the world's falling apart, but some of it's looking up. Yeah. Being on set was amazing. I mean, the other night when we had our premiere, a lot of my friends were there and the actors and just being, it just felt so wonderful to just feel like, oh my God, I actually really made this movie. And people were laughing and they got what I was trying to say. And some of the people who have written about the movie that enjoyed it or understood where I, you know, where I was coming from, that's really satisfying because you're like, okay, I had this idea and some people are getting it. Like, it makes me feel really, it made me feel really good. What's the biggest, what's the biggest learning as you hopefully get to do another one of these?

What are you going to take into the next project? Well, I think that sometimes it's easy to overwrite things because you end up cutting a lot of stuff out in the editing room. So hopefully I would do my editing before I shot it. Gotcha. Yeah. And just, you know, making things flow. It just, it's so fun to learn about writing. Now when I watch things, I have a writer's mind. I'm like, oh, I understand where the story's going, because I could see how they've, you know, laid the groundwork in the first act to see what conflict's going to happen. And writing is amazing. It's also probably there's a balance of trying to strike, especially with the kind of performers you get in this, that many of which are very good at improv. And you want, and you want to let them. Which I did. Yeah, I definitely let them sort of make stuff up. Not all the time. Sometimes I'd say, okay, stop doing it. Just go back to the story. script but a lot of times I just would let them run with it and then you're editing it and it can be hard because you might not have covered the same improv on both sides you know but it is it's exciting it's exciting to work with improvisational comedians yeah we can't get like Molly Shannon on set and just be like just do the one and then we're done with you so many funny outtakes from that scene it was very hard like to cut a lot of it out because you can't have that scene lasting for like 10 minutes but yeah she was so funny what's the is there a proudest scene you have in the film like a uh is it whether it's a performance or a moment or because it doesn't it

As, like, as broad and as comedic as it gets, there are some dramatic and poignant moments, especially as you move further into the narrative. Yeah. I mean, in the scene where Thomas Lennon comes over to Angela's house after she's, like, drunk-diled him, I don't know, it's fun watching those two work together. They're both really so quick, you know?

And I don't know, but saying that, I don't want to take away from, like, all the other actors being amazing, you know? But it was fun because I wasn't in that scene. So I think, too, I wasn't in that scene just watching them. Yeah. That was kind of, I felt like I was like an audience just watching them. So what's the, what's the dream like going forward in terms of like what you want the career to look like?

Is it going back and forth and obviously still being in the act? Well, what if I could be a Woody Allen, but not a child molester, you know? Wow. Not like a slightly chauvinistic child molester. Right. No, that's a good, yeah. Incestuous person. But how do you really feel, Heather?

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, well, that would be good. Yeah, I mean, it would be cool to see more female stories being told. So I like to tell stories with female protagonists. Yeah. Or a TV show, you know, do more movies or maybe create a TV show, something like that. Do you sense more of an openness?

Like, there's obviously more dialogue at least. We're at least talking about this stuff now where maybe a year ago it was more a little lip service. Do you feel like already there's a tangible more openness in the meetings you have or the people you're talking to for these kind of things? I think people are finally like, okay, we're not going to just whisper these things in back rooms to our friends. Like, we're just going to talk about it out in the open and we're going to stand up for ourselves more than we ever have. And just that there's a dialogue that this stuff needs to change. So that's exciting. As a woman, it's so exciting.

Like when these news stories came out, I mean, obviously the stories are disturbing, but there's just feeling of like a breath of fresh air. Like, oh, we're going to stop lying about what's really happening. Yeah. Did you, because you, I mean, you obviously talked a little bit. I think you wrote a comment about Weinstein, your experiences with Weinstein. You've worked with James Tobach, who also is... Creepy. Creepy.

Yes, you. I was going to say something, but thank you. That helps. Was that your experience that he was a bit of a lech? Yes. I mean, it's funny because I was talking to someone else about it. And, you know, actually working with him creatively was fun, you know? But, yeah, he's creepy.

He's totally creepy. Again, going back, like, that's the thing, they're not mutually exclusive. Right. can be a genius and he can also be a lot of other things. Unfortunately, you can compartmentalize these things. I mean, like, what's the,

when you think of the, I'm curious, like, without naming names, because I don't, I'm not trying to like get gossip, but like, is there like a worst director experience you've had in terms of like what, like a director that did things the wrong way?

It doesn't even have to be that harassment or whatever you feel comes to mind. What's the, well, I told another story that I already, that I already talked about, but I had dated Adam Horace. Horowitz a long time ago and his dad like hit on me gross he was like directing a play in Los Angeles and I audition for his play and I was 19 he was probably 50 and then he got in the

elevator with me after and he just like shoved his tongue down my throat and I was just like what is going on and were you dating Adam at the time I think we had broken up at that time but I mean I knew him because of dating his son yeah and it was just creepy did you tell him afterwards you tell him no because we had broken up and I hadn't talked to him for a little while also, no. That's unfortunate. Yeah. My brother's name is Adam.

So growing up, we got a lot of calls for Adam Harrow. Oh, really? That's funny. Very disappointed. There was no Beastie boy staying in my place. Oh, my God. That's funny. So going forward, you're spraying the good word of this.

Are you actively, like, are you writing something right now that you're trying to develop? Yeah, I just wrote a script called Chosen Family, and I'm writing this new idea, which I think might be a TV show about how cancer is big business. And I just optioned a book by Leanne Morton. reality. I'm curious about the cancer being busy, like the pharmaceutical companies you're talking about. Yeah. Just kind of the way that it's run. Are we really, I mean, if there, cancer's a billion dollar business. So they're making a lot of money off of people being sick. So are they super incentivized for us not to be sick? Interesting. And so that's, that's a film, film script? I think I'm writing it as a TV series. At the moment I'm writing it as a TV series. It could also be a

film. Yeah. So are you, is like in your quote unquote downtime when you're not like on a set? Is this what occupies your time like just bouncing ideas around it is really fun because you don't have to wait for someone to hire you can just start writing something and so I have chosen family and the cancer thing yeah and then I just option a book so it's like I have creative things I can do I don't need to wait for someone else to give me a job which is so empowering like writing and directing your own movie even though so it was very hard to get the money it's like there's stuff you can do at home you can write it's fun sounds like you're inspired coming off of this inspiring I want to do it again I felt like directing is like a drug and I want to have that drug again it's like the best drug but

It's a good drug, a good, healthy, creative. It just felt so good. I just felt like I'm my best self in this moment because I felt so happy and loving. Yeah. Well, you should, you know, it's safe to take a peek at some of the reviews because I've taken a peek and they are good. Yeah, yeah. Knock on wood. That is awesome.

It's so exciting that some people are getting it. It just is like, I feel like I can just take a deep breath and relax, like after all that work. Were you kind of tense going into these weeks? Yeah. First I thought maybe I won't read it because I just thought I just want to get through the publicity and the press stuff that I was doing. But it's fun. My friend was sending me some of them like,

Heather Graham rages against the Hollywood machine. And I'm just like, yeah. I need that blowing up and put on a wall. I know. I'm like, I'm raging against the machine. I'm like a rock band. Rage against the machine. That's awesome.

That's awesome. Well, congratulations. The film is half magic. How can people see it? It's in 10 cities and it's also VOD. Excellent. Seek it out. It's a fun piece of work.

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for supporting the film and for having me on before and now. Of course. welcome here, and I can't wait to see what you do next. Thank you. Thanks for stopping. Hopefully you'll interview me then too. Anytime.

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