Happy Sad Confused - Henry Cavill

Episode Date: September 24, 2020

Josh and Henry Cavill are celebrating their 10 year anniversary with a super geeky conversation about Henry's love of fantasy (and his comfort movies, the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy), his thoughts on the fabled Snyder cut, and his new Netflix film, "Enola Holmes". Plus, Josh welcomes Ben Lyons for a quick chat about their favorite basketball films and the Hoopers Vote project! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Henry Cavill, on Inola Holmes, the Snyder Cut, and his comfort movie, Lord of the Rings. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Yes, Superman himself, Sherlock Holmes himself, the man the myth of the legend, Henry Cavill, who has never been on the podcast, is my guest today.

And we talk about it all, guys. The road he's been on ever since being cast as Superman nearly 10 years ago. I've been there the entire time. I did the first interview with Henry after he was cast as Superman, WonderCon, 2011. Look it up. He's come a long way. And he was a delight. He talked a lot about this new film of his on Netflix, he Noah Holmes.

It's him and Nilly Bobby Brown. Yes, the fabled Snyder cut. We get into it. and of course we talk about his comfort movie he's a geek like myself he wanted to talk lord of the rings not just where the rings the extended cut of ward of the rings guys yeah this is a geeky one speaking of geeks no this guy's not a geek this guy's too cool for me but somehow he's a friend of mine nonetheless you know him you love him i've talked about him before we've collaborated professionally and personally over the years it's mr ben lyons hey ben what's up josh thanks for

having me on the episode with Superman. I really feel like Clark Kent, so thank you. Yeah, exactly. You're the yin to the yang that is Superman. I always love to catch up with you. Usually it's not on a microphone, but today I wanted to talk to you because as this drops today, it's an important day. We're obviously in this crazy political cycle, this election cycle. You're someone that is very involved in both the entertainment and sports side of things, but also politically, I wanted to hear about what you're up to and spread the good word. Tell me about Hooper's vote. Yeah, Hooper's Vote and Hooper's Register to Vote Day, Josh, is something I'm really passionate about. And I love how you've been able to use your platform to talk films to interview the biggest actors and actresses

and directors on the planet. And also, you have a chance to, you know, have your voice heard about what you're passionate about what's going on outside of the movie theater and outside of movies. And for me, it's, you know, the world of basketball. I'm very passionate about with the partnership with Rock the Vote, we launched an initiative called Hooper's Vote as a way to unify and amplify all the collective energy you see across basketball culture, the NBA, WNBA, college, high school level, even my old man rec league. Everybody's a Hooper at heart and with being a hooper. It also comes with being a voter, a leader on and off the court. So having a lot of fun creating content around basketball culture, and I wanted to reach out to

Utah. I know you're very passionate about voting, and I thought it would be a great way on Hooper's Vote Day, for you and I to talk our favorite basketball movies of all time on the Happy Side Confused Podcasts. I like that you lead with, like, I know you're passionate about voting, insinuating that I've never actually touched a basketball, that I have no actual relation to the other half of this. I've touched a basketball once or twice. I've played a game of horse back in the days when my legs worked, and I've seen many a film about basketball, whether it's documentaries or narratives. And yeah, I want to compare lists with you. I mean, I don't know, the list of great basketball films is not honestly that long, in my opinion. I feel like

there might be some overlap. Can we compare our top three basketball movies of all time? Yeah, let's do it. And there haven't been as many in recent years as the documentation of basketball has gone global. There have been some niche documentaries that have popped up on the festival scene in recent years. I think of the other dream team about the Lithuanian team in 92 that won the bronze medal and used to warm up in the Olympics with Grateful Dead tie-dye shirts talked about using their voice for activism back then. But yeah, I think 92 sort of the inception of rock the vote was sort of the end of your basketball career. It's sort of coincide. It's like Benjamin Button meeting in the middle. I left when the last time the Knicks were like

a real team. As you know, my knowledge ended with Mark Jackson. and Patrick Ewing. I actually knew my stuff way back when, but it's been a while. But the movies remain, and I have some favorites. Okay, let's go, like, I don't know if you've ranked them, but I've ranked mine. I'll do three, and you go to three. How about that? And we'll see if there's a overlap.

Let's do it. Three, I'm going to go with Gina Prince Bithwood's Love and Basketball. This is a curveball? Is this on your list? This is a different kind of a basketball movie, but, like, she's got such an amazing touch as a filmmaker really captures relationships so well. I found it to be a moving, exceptional film, not necessarily a basketball first movie, but that's okay. Beautiful film. I love loving basketball. Definitely still holds up. And I actually have fond memories of when this

movie first came out and first came out on DVD. I was actually dating a Dalton girl at the time who was where you went, that's where you went to high school. And she was on the basketball team. We used to watch the movie and then like ice our ankles and like have our own love and basketball story. So I really hold that movie near and dear to my heart. Okay. What's your name? But I yeah, number three. And that film holds up Dennis Hayesberts in it as a father and it's about USC in Los Angeles. And it's really well done. Snodlatan and Omar Epps is terrific. I have on my list. A film I would just label as as a pure comedy, but also has some, some drama,

dramatic moments and sort of that dromedy tone to it. A white man can't jump. Rosie Perez and Woody Harrelson and Wesley Snipes, the Stokey brothers, Fooge with the Letter Q, a lot of memorable lines. And of course, anytime I go play two on two in Venice,

I think of that movie. I was really dreading when you were setting it up as a comedy. I'm like, he's going to say Eddie, starring Wolfie Goldberg, and I'm going to walk off this podcast, then it's going to be over. No, Franklin Jella,

walking into Madison Square, Gordon, and jumping out a horse walking into Madison, the square garden is, no, it did not make my list. I have a feeling that the top two. I don't know. I feel like this is inarguable with the top two basketball movies of all time are. I'm curious about this. I put it at number two, and it's just as easily could have been my number one,

is he got game, Spike Lee's he got game, which is so moving and dramatic in the best possible ways. I think of the classical score he used. I think of one of Denzel's best performances, and that's saying quite a lot. I think of Ray Allen actually somewhat holding his own, which is a tall, literally the actors that are around him, it's one of my favorite Spike Lee films and one of my favorite films, period. Yeah, this is where our list begin to intersect. And the beauty of that film is that really captures all of the characters that surround a star player's life. From his

friends and teammates, to his girlfriend, to his family, to the hangers-on, to the newfound friends with $100 handshakes, it really captures that world and that time, loosely based on Stefan Marbury, who's the subject of a great documentary, the kid from Coney Island, which is available now on a lot of the streaming platforms. But yeah, he got game still holds up. Denzel is terrific as Jesus Shuttlesworth's father. And, you know, what I also love about about He Got Game, Josh, is that Spike, of course, is so passionate about the game of basketball.

And the fact that he got to make something that 20 years later still has an impact on the culture of basketball is tremendous. I just wrote an article about John Wallace, who plays one of Jesus' teammates on it for a 25th anniversary of the 96 draft class for Slam magazine. And he says today's NBA players come up to him and imitate him from the movie, raising the roof. And so the fact that it's still part of the culture and Spike, as a film, filmmaker loves basketball so much. It makes me just even connect to that movie even deeper. I think of one of my all-time favorite scenes, the one-on-one towards the end of the film on the court, is just amazing. Is that your number one? Did I do you know your number one? That's on the list, but you know the story of behind that. Yes. Go for it. Yeah, go for it.

Yeah, I know it. No, just quickly that Denzel wasn't going to get, like, played and lose 11-0. So he, like, went for it in the first two points and kind of surprised Ray Allen. It's so great. What else is on your list? Number one, comes out of Sundance, which is a special place for us, as you know. Hoop Dreams. This is the long-form documentary, this is on your list, too, right? It's not on my list. I could have just as easily had that at number three.

No, I went with the obvious one, but go for it. But yeah, no, it's a documentary that at the time, you know, it was really groundbreaking and the idea of embedding yourself with a family, with two families, to find out if these two young kids from Chicago were going to make it to the NBA. And while ultimately they don't, the story has just a beautiful air of hope around it and shows you that life is the journey. And to now years later hear the stories of checking in with those two young men, I think is, I don't know, it was a really seminal moment in long form filmmaking, documentary filmmaking, reality television. And really to see two young boys kind of

grow up and become men through the game of basketball and pursue their dreams is still inspiring when I pop it on today. I need to revisit that one. I honestly don't think I've seen it since it came out, but I remember loving it. You're right. It did as much for the form of documentaries, like legitimizing them as great films in their own right as any film I can think of. The other, so I don't know how many are left on your list that haven't been covered. Well, those are three. I mean, we can get into the bad ones. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. I have one. Wait, wait. Ben. Ben. You don't have the top basketball movie of all time on your list?

What do you got? Blue Chips, Tony Failed TV? What do you got? Where's the love for Hoosiers? What are you talking about? I don't know. See, Hoosiers and I have some issues. Oh, my God.

Well, let me just, my soapbox for 20 seconds on Hoosiers. I don't feel like I have to sell it because I thought this was the no-brainer of all time. It's just one of the most eminently rewatchable films of all time. It's the, you know, the underdog story, the Gene Hackman performance, the music that hits me in the gut, every time. So many scenes Dennis Hopper are getting Oscar nominated. What's your beef with Hoosiers? Well, you know, if you're going to tell sort of the story of basketball and an authentic representation of the game, I kind of feel like certain characters are marginalized in that

film. No, I do. I do, I do hear you. And what you're alluding to, of course, is like this is like a Lily White story with like the African Americans like on the sidelines. And, and you're absolutely right. It also captures a time and a place where sadly that was the reality they were being marginalized in a horrible way um but look i guess i'm seeing it in the context of when i saw it and maybe if i revisited that those things would glare be glaring for me but on a purely like inspirational just like filmic level that movie always works for me um i guess there's no way you can't watch that movie and not want to run through a wall and and also it speaks to how you know the the the game at certain times throughout it

history has been segregated. However, what's so great about the game of basketball truly is that it's this real, like, united nations of characters now. And if you look at, you know, I'm watching these NBA playoffs, Josh, and you see guys from Serbia next to guys from New York, next to guys from, you know, parts of South America and all over the world. But you're right, you know, that part of the game, and that time period was very Lily White, and also, you know, an important time period just in American basketball, but it's American culture, too. Well, it's like you and me. Like, you know, one of us is from the Upper West Side, and one of us is even further

on the Upper West Side, more West. So, like, it's a total different world we come from. I know there are folks tuning in that are loving this conversation, but are also like, where's my Henry Cavill talking Superman? So we're going to go to the main event in a second. Give us one more plug for this great organization you're definitely a big part of. Hoopers vote, hoopers vote.org. You see the energy around voting in the basketball community from LeBron James,

who's coming soon in Space Jam 2. Space Jam didn't make our list. Chris Paul supporting when we all vote with a lot of the people that I know you love to interview in Michelle Obama's initiative. And you see Steph Curry and the WNBA Players Association, who's a partner on our initiative, Hoopers Vote. it's just really great to see the energy around the game and the connections to Hollywood too

between basketball and movies seem to be stronger than ever before. You see stuff in the trades every day about basketball projects on Quibi and documentaries and, you know, you and I are forever connected because this year we lost Kobe Bryant and found out that news together and he was someone who won an Academy Award.

You know, the connections between culture, voting, basketball, it's all intertwined as we lead up towards the towards the election and Hoopersvote.org is a place to kind of capture a lot of that energy. Excellent. Well, always a good excuse to catch up with you, my friend. I'm glad that you're always, you know, furthering causes that need help and demand help. I mean, these are crazy times, as you well know, and yet anything that can get that can encourage folks to get a little bit more active in these pivotal times I am all for. Thanks, Ben. We're going to toss it over to Superman himself. From one Superman to another, here's Mike.

there, Josh. You owe me forever, Ben. Here is my conversation with Mr. Henry Cavill. It's good to see you, buddy. How you doing? It's good to see you too. I am very well. Very well, thanks.

It's been a long time. It's been a long time. I feel like I haven't seen you in ages. And we've known each other for so long. And now is only the first time in your house. What's going on with that? Well, I was going to say, welcome to my apartment in New York. Yeah.

This is as close as I wanted you into the apartment. I don't trust you quite yet. We've known each other a while, Henry, but I don't know if we're in the stage to welcome physically into each other's homes. What do you think? Frankly, I'm wounded. Don't be. It has been a while. You've been there for some of the formative moments of my life when I can't come into your apartment.

What? I take it back. I take it back. You are always welcome, my friend. But I was going to say, I mean, yeah. I was doing the math when I knew I was going to chat with you today. We're about to celebrate our 10-year anniversary, Henry. Oh, my goodness.

Insanity. We need to get some kind of cake going, some champagne or something. Yeah. I feel like I'm going to be the one that eats all the cake, and you're just going to stare at me. You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. I will stare at you if you eat all the cakes because I'll be pissed off because I will eat all the cake first. In fact, we can have two cakes.

What kind of cake do you get? What kind of cake don't I like? I'm a frosting guy. I'll do a red velvet, yeah. I can do that. What's your cake of choice? I like red velvet and anything salted caramel, really. So even like a salted caramel or cheesecake, like, I'm into that.

I'm glad that they prepped you to know that this was a 40-minute conversation about our favorite cakes. So this is just the beginning. Yeah, I mean, I've got cake stories. I know that. about you. But in relative seriousness, even in these crazy times, I'm excited that I have the opportunity to catch up with you. I've always enjoyed chatting with you over the years. And congratulations on the new films as a delight. And Noel Holmes is a super sweet and fun movie. But I am curious, like looking back, like, because we have had a bit of a history, 10 years ago,

if I talked to you on the, and that was right when you were cast as Superman, this was a momentous moment in your career, what do you think about the 10 years that have transpired career-wise? at that time, did you set goals for yourself? You knew Superman was going to be a hell of an opportunity, and I'm sure as an actor you wanted to make the most of that specific opportunity, but also what that would lead to. Let's analyze for a second, the last 10 years. What do you think?

I mean, I didn't set goals for myself, and I'm glad I didn't because, I mean, under normal circumstances, I would say it's always good to set goals, but I'm glad I didn't because they're, have been all sorts of curveballs and weird U-turns and lefts and right where I weren't expecting them, zigged when I should have zagged, and everyone else zagged when they should have zigged. And it just, it's been full of surprises. It's been full of, full of things changing, which I wasn't expecting, and I certainly wouldn't have expected 10 years ago

when we were first having those conversations. And I'm, I'm happy, obviously there are some things which I wish would have happened differently over the past 10 years but I'm really happy they have happened that way because lockdown taught me a lot let's put it that way lockdown taught me a lot about appreciation of everything that we have life is surprisingly short sometimes and it's all about taking everything for what it's worth which is if you can't take a positive out of it then then you shouldn't be doing it and I actually have enjoyed everything I've done, even if it hasn't necessarily gone my way or it hasn't been something that I've enjoyed enormously doing. Actually, there's been stuff which I've

taken out of it, which I can be thankful for because of who I am today. And it's led to things like this. It's led to things like The Witcher. It's led to things like having the opportunity to work with Millie Bobby Brown and Harry Bradbury. And so actually the past 10 years, despite having their ups and downs and ebbs and flows and not necessarily having gone the way which I wanted it to go in some scenarios, I'm very, very thankful for. I'm very happy for. Well, and I'm sure there's a recognition, and you probably knew it back then, but you know it more so now than ever, that there's only so much you can control as an actor in this business. You can control what you deliver and what you deliver each day on set and give it 110 percent,

and there are just a myriad of other factors involved. And yeah, if you don't take something out of out of every experience, good or bad, what are you in this for? And I know that's partially why I find it admirable, for instance, like the Witcher you went after. Like, you know, I don't think of like an actor like you who's like accomplished a lot as someone that's chasing roles, but you were still like, no, that's worth like putting myself on tape for doing whatever I have to do because I know that's something that I will be passionate about and I can, I can, that can bring me to another level.

Absolutely. And it's not even about the other level. It's about doing the thing you want to do. And again, referencing lockdown, thinking about things I want to do in the future. And I love fantasy and sci-fi. Those are the books I read. And so it's the kind of stuff which I want to do. And it's made me be a lot more proactive and start chasing after stuff and saying,

well, hey, you know what? Don't wait for someone else to make the movie. Go after it yourself. See what you can do. And start putting a team together. Like, really work on that. And I'm excited because now, you know, it's a, it's a passion pursuit because some things are out of my control, absolutely out of my control. It's all about, it's all about patience with some things.

And it's all about proactive action with, with others. And so, and so, yeah, lockdowns taught me a lot. And I'm looking forward to doing things that I love doing every day, you know. So I definitely want to hit upon all of the things. fantasy where, as you know, we're talking about comfort movies and part on the podcast lately, but I do want to ask a couple of a couple things about this new movie of yours, because honestly, I really dug it. I know what Holmes, as I said, a sweet sort of different take on some familiar characters.

You're no stranger to iconic roles. Clearly, you don't shy away from these challenges. Sherlock presents some interesting challenges in and of itself, though. I mean, not only is he as one of the most recognizable characters in the history of literature, but we have some very good recent examples of takes on Sherlock. We don't have to go that far back to see some really cool, interesting takes. So what makes this worth doing? Is it the fact that it is a bit of a different take on the character

than what Benedict's done, what Downey's done? I don't know if it was the different take on the character that necessarily drew me to it. It was the story itself. It was the messaging in the story. It was the way that Sherlock is utilized in this story to affect the new generation via Anola Holmes. And I loved that. I loved it.

I'm not going to try and compare myself to these fantastic performances of Sherlock Holmes that have come before. And I think if you did, then it would drive you crazy because it has been done in so many different ways and marvelously so. And so for me, it was just looking. at it and feeling something when I read the script and going, yeah, this feels really good. And I love what it's trying to tell people. I love what it's saying. And then, obviously, Millie Bobby Brown and Harry Bradbeer, you think it's, it makes it an easy yes. It makes it, it makes it, you know, a no-brainer. This, this character is, you know, famously, maybe the most intelligent man on the face of the earth. You've played, you know, our most iconic, virtualistic, you know, superhero on the

planet. Do you ever just want to play like a dumb, stupid guy that has no good attributes? Because you're setting yourself up for failure, my friend. You meet somebody. And they're like, you can't possibly compare with all due respect. You're a great guy, but you can't be Sherlock. You can't be Superman. You're a mortal man, Henry. That's what I love about these characters. I love about my job. I get to be these incredible characters, which I's reading comic books and books. And that's what I love about it. I get to exist in the skin of these these icons temporarily and briefly and hopefully a little bit of them rubs off for me in the process. Right.

And that is the blessing of doing what I do. And that's what I dreamed of as a kid and I'm very, very lucky to be here doing it. Were you, I love Mr. Sam Claflin. I go way back with that gentleman as well. I could see you two getting along well. Did you guys cross paths in the audition circuit? Did you know each other before this project? I think we had met a couple of times very brief.

briefly. But we hadn't really crossed paths. We actually, we've auditioned for a bunch of the same stuff. And yeah, I think we met at a couple of BAFTA parties. But yeah, just respect for the man. Absolutely respect for Sam. And he's very funny. He had me laughing really, really hard. It was actually at some point, it was a little difficult to keep it straight and keep it serious and professional because once he had once he had me tickled like offset then as soon as we were on an action was happening I was like just just forget just forget the thing he just did because it's going to kill your performance we're not talking actual literal tickling he's not like literally taking me tickling me that would have been that would have been too far I mean ah you never

know you never know a little bit of affection but missing it now aren't we we are now we can use a little tickle. Sam Claflin, where are you? You've got the wonderful Millie Bobby Brown at the center of this. Must have been all of 15 or 16 years old when she shot this film. Take me back to Henry Cavill at 15 or 16. Would you have had the wherewithal to be the actor and virtual icon that Millie is right now? You know what? I would love to say yes, but no, I don't think so. I don't think so. Millie is extraordinary and unique. When I first met her, the initial thought was, I was like, oh, no, this human being isn't getting to experience childhood because they're so mature. They're so different from every other teenager I've met. And I just thought, oh, that's such a

shame. And then two seconds later, I was like, oh, no, no, she's still a teenager. She does this amazing flip-flop between the two, where she's an incredibly mature person who speaks like they're 35 years old, who talks about characters, talk about performances, talks about directors or storytelling or whatever it may be. And then she starts talking to you about Love Island and trying to get you to do TikTok dances. And it's just, she's such a marvelous person to be around. The energy coming off her is infectious. And I'm, she's, she's going to have a massive impact on this industry. I'm just happy to be a part of her story.

I was going to say, I mean, you're pretty good on social media. Millie, though, I mean, this is like what she was born to do, right? She's like the queen of social media. So did she, I assume you're not working on TikTok now. Has she taught you any moves in the social media space? No, I'm, I don't want to encroach upon, you know, Millie's space. I don't want to cramp her style. I don't want to make her look bad.

So I'm just, I'm leaving the TikTok to her. Yeah, you let her do the dances. You'll make your computers in the barn. You each got your skill set. Yeah, perfect. So you mentioned how you were at a different place when you were her age. From our past conversations and stuff I've heard you say, you were, I mean, I don't you describe it yourself.

How were you as a teenager? You felt a little bit like on the outside looking in. You didn't feel like you had a place. Where were you at when you were a teenager? It's a good question. I mean, I've been thinking about that a lot recently. obviously. I think I was probably a very openly emotional kid. I wore my heart on my sleeve. That was for whatever reason where my personality landed amongst the

personality of the five boys in my family. And yeah, I was just, I think it's interesting because boarding school was tough for me because I was so openly emotional. I think there's something about that where you do make yourself a target and if it hadn't been for my mum being such a tough strong person then then perhaps it could have crushed me being that open but instead it didn't crush me it just prepared me and it helped me be more understanding of an industry that says no a lot and and more resilient to it it's just it's just one of those things. I don't mind if people say no now. I'm so used to it and rejection is okay. It's just one of those things that happens. And so I think as a kid, yeah, I was very openly emotional and

I'm glad it was because that helps with the acting. It does. Are the legends of quote-unquote fat cavil true? Were you really called that as a kid? I mean, yeah, yeah, I was absolutely. And I was I was a chubby kid. Yeah. So, I mean, it was a fitting nickname. Yeah, you can fault them for many things, but accuracy. They had accuracy on their side. Yeah, they hit the nail on the head right there.

I was like, my name is Cavill and I am fat. So can't argue with that. That's some pretty sound logic. Around what age are we talking here when that? I would say probably 13, 14, 15, 16, maybe towards 17. I started leaning out a little bit. But only in the face. as I started to kind of stretch out and grow.

But I was definitely still porky. I remember when I first got the count of Monte Cristo, the producers called my mom. And they said, so, could Henry lose about 14 pounds? And I mean, if they're saying that to, you know, a kid at the age of I was 17 at the time, then, and that's like a, that's a large, percentage of your body weight at 17 unless of course you're one of these you know sporting

icons who somehow weigh 240 pounds at 17 and you work you know you're about to play for Kansas City Chiefs or something right then it's but yeah I was I was definitely a an overweight kid and and that's you know that's fine that is what it is I think health is really really important I'm really glad that in today's world we have a better hand long it there's better access to to health tips and diets and stuff and one of the good things about some of the pressures of social media is that it does inspire you to be fitter and to get in great shape because even if it's all lies at least it's a goal to work towards and you know I I would have maybe it would have affected me maybe it wouldn't I mean I'm looking at my nephews who

about the same age now and and their interaction with social media and And thank God that my brother and my sister-in-law are such fantastic parents because those are two really well-rounded young individuals. And, you know, God, who knows? Who knows? You can't really put yourself in their shoes. Yeah, yeah. Talk to me a little bit about forming your tastes as a kid.

You said that fantasy was a big part of your life growing up. Who helped inform your movie or television tastes? Was it one of your brothers? Was it friends? Who was the biggest influence on the? on the films and TVs that you, a TV that you gravitated towards. I think it's got to be my dad.

Absolutely. My dad still reads all the same books that I read. He got me into PC gaming. It's, he got me into type of PC games I play. And yeah, you play against them still? I used to a bit.

I haven't done, actually, I don't really get to play with my brothers at all anymore. None of us have the time. You know, we're all too busy adulting. And maybe that's something we should make more time for because it would be nice to interact with each other a lot more.

But yeah, it was my dad. My dad informed a lot of my tastes in books, movies, and computer games. I saw your conversation recently in lockdown with the great Patrick Stewart. You seem to be beaming in that. I felt a little bit of like kind of geeking out on your part. Is that just because he's a legend or were you in particular, wait, did you grow up watching next generation? Were you a Star Trek guy at all?

Yeah, I grew up watching Next Generation and grew up watching that with my brothers and my dad. And so that is the only actor ever, only person in the industry ever, who, when I found out I'm going to be interacting with him, I've then immediately texts the group chat and go on, guys, guess what? I'm going to be talking to Sir Patrick Stewart.

It's nuts. And everyone's like, oh my God, that's cool. Make sure you ask him about this. And don't ask him about that, all his interviews and and it's just yeah he's he's not only a legend but sir patrick is is a very kind giving man and it was a real pleasure talking to me i i'm gutted that it was during this pandemic so i didn't actually get to see him in person uh but hopefully one day he and i can share a glass of wine or something and uh have a good old chat it's tricky talking to those folks as you

well know that are so associated with these roles or franchises that you love because and you know this better than anybody there these are complicated relationships with characters you're so well associated with like i've had patrick on the podcast a couple times and the first time i was a little scared to go too deep into star trek and that was one of like the gifts of like i had him on like right before lockdown and he was promoting Picard and i'm like oh my god i can actually ask him all the geeky star trek questions yeah this is my chance that's the both worlds part two i have a follow-up question So was it fantasy books and TV and film, or was it mostly literature at first? Like, what was the, what was, tell me you're like fantasy-like influences as a kid.

It was, it was all of them. I mean, but my earliest experiences of fantasy was, was my dad reading to me. I had this very vivid memory of lying in bed at a house called LeCleuze in Jersey. and my dad was reading me a series of short stories and I yeah it was I think it was reading him reading to me and then and then me once I got into reading myself picking up books and finding finding stories that I loved and I just the stories contained within these amazing worlds are are so relevant to us and that's what I think is I really connect with it's yeah fun fantasy adventure crazy crazy stuff happens and dragons and shit like that, but also amazing moral codes and lessons on how to be

and you see these heroes of yours who stumble and fall and get up again and you learn that lesson through them and somehow you want them to respect you even though they don't exist and so you try and emulate them and it's, I think stuff like that is really important and it's definitely formative to who I am. everything you described describes the, uh, not one, but three films you technically shows as your comfort movie today. And not only three films, but expanded versions of three films. I didn't have a chance since I just got them yesterday to revisit them again, though, of course, these are movies that are close to my heart as well. But Henry,

tell us what your comfort film films are and why you chose them. Okay, comfort films, uh, Lord of the Rings, extended edition. Uh, I chose them because that's one of those, It's, okay, I think when, whenever I've been hanging out with people, whether it be previous girlfriends or whether it be friends and we're all saying, what we're going to do? Or, you know, what do you want to do for Christmas or it's, it's, you're all cozy inside and, you know, the rain is blowing sideways outside in London and the house is nice and warm. And you've just ordered, you know, Chinese takeaway and like, what should we do? Or a pizza or something, go, let's watch. You check your watch. Let's watch. Let's watch Lord of the Rings extended.

edition and and then you just get into it and it's such a even though you've watched the story a hundred times it's so well done it's it's you can watch the extended edition which is i mean what are they something silly like three and a half to four hours each yeah pretty much i've got them here somewhere but yeah these are a long movie got 30 more minutes in fellowship 44 extra minutes and two towers 51 extra minutes in return of i mean it is a massive massive movie experience. And I love him. I love it. It's just so well put together, every single aspect of it. And you don't feel like you're watching, you know, someone who's just walked out of a costume shop. They look like real characters. And I mean, Andy Circus playing Gollum, it, people still think

they do flawless impressions of Gollum. And they don't. But everyone's trying to do it. And I, I just absolutely, I love those movies and the way you can just cozy up and watch them with anyone. And even people who aren't into fantasy are like, yeah, okay, yeah, I'm into it. They are, they are, they are, they are, they are, you can really lose yourself in that world, whether you've read the Tolkien books or not. They, so many of the qualities you mentioned, I admire in them, not to mention the great ensemble of acting that's in it, the impeccable direction by Peter Jackson. These, these were game changers of films. Obviously, Star Wars, changed the landscape for fantasy sci-fi, but even Star Wars didn't win best picture.

And Return the King won best picture. And it kind of legitimized the fantasy genre, and we're still seeing it all these years later. I mean, there's probably not Game of Thrones. There's probably not Witcher, frankly, if there's not Word of the Rings. Talk to me about where you were at in your life when you first saw a fellowship. You must have been probably 17 or 18 by my math. So I assume by then you'd read the Tolkien books and Was that a big moment to see this vision realized on the big screen? Believe it or not, I have not read the Tolkien books. Wow, don't want you're, we're in it together, buddy.

We're two geeks and somehow it missed it. Yeah, me too. It's one of those things where I think I have memories of listening to the audiobooks, and those are the only audio books I've ever listened to when it comes to fiction, fantasy and sci-fi and stuff. in the car on the way to boarding school. I remember putting those on and the wonderful performances in there. And then when the movies came out, watching the movies,

and I didn't look at them and think, me, that's a performance, or I didn't like that, or that doesn't look real. I believed it. And that was the beautiful part of it. And, I mean, it's, as you say, just so well crafted. And especially for someone who loved fantasy, it was just a reinforcement for my belief in that world and what fantasy can do and what it can represent.

Did the timing ever work out in your career when they were auditioning for either War of the Rings initially or The Hobbit? Have you ever been up for one of these Peter Jackson Middle Earth adventures? No, I haven't. I have not. I'm trying to think that was Orlando Bloom's first movie, wasn't it? I think so, if not one of his first. Yeah, certainly.

Yeah. Because I think I went up for pirates. Oh, okay. But I never went up for Lord of the Rings that I remember, or not knowingly anyway. It could be one of those things where they say, yeah, read this thing. And I just didn't know what was happening.

But yeah, yeah, it's, I never went up for one knowingly anyway. And I'm kind of glad. I'm glad that I just got to have the experience. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think one of the things. that people also enjoy in retrospect about that trilogy is how fully fleshed out it is from beginning to end. Peter Jackson had a vision. Obviously, the blueprint was there in the books,

but he, they shot it all simultaneously. He did a lot of like additional shooting as it went, but he knew from the get-go this was going to be two or three films. He knew the beginning, middle, and end of this story. And frankly, there's been a lot of like debate about this in like, you know, film geek community in recent years, Star Wars, the recent trilogy of Star Wars. I'm sure you've seen those films. You know, a lot of fans are like, oh, why didn't they have the trilogy mapped out from the start? And I think they're advantages and disadvantages. They're different approaches. Do you engage with that? I mean, I feel like I know you follow all this stuff to a degree. Do you have a take on that? I mean, even applying it to your own work,

like, I think that's something that people really admire about what Zach did in your collaborations with him. And what people were so excited by, by Justice League, was he had a plan. He was opening up and expanding the universe with all these Easter eggs for future films to come. Fair to say? Is that something that you relate to your own experience at all? I mean, the idea of a grand plan and executing on that, is that something, is that as the question? Yeah, I guess so, yeah. It's, I'm a details guy, right? yeah and bear with me i'm a details guy i'm a law loyalist and so when it comes to adaptations and

stuff it's it's important to me that things are faithful uh faithful to adaptations and and faith sorry faithful to the source material yeah and when you are just a carriage on someone else's train it can be a dangerous place to be in when you are the train itself when you are the peter jackson when you are Zach Snyder, when you are the Denisville nerve, it is, I'm sure, absolutely amazing because it's your vision and it's your version and you get to do whether it's an adaptation of the source material which you really want to see or whether it's like so, so beautifully faithful to the source material that you get to mention every single little detail and that has to be just this way and that has to be this way and no, we're not cutting that

character and know that character won't do that they'll do it exactly as I do in the book then that's fantastic too but the scary thing is when you're someone who's so into details and an almost psychopathic law loyalist like I am especially when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi then then it can be it can be a double-edged sword being just a carriage on the train and so it's it's one of those things it's um it's I suppose it does keep it interesting to say the very very very least. You know, Zach will always come up in your career in these discussions. And I feel like it happens in my discussions with Mamoa, too. I mean, you guys, you know, he really kick-started your career to another level. I feel like there will always be a loyalty and a simpatico for many

reasons for what Zach Snyder did for you. What did you learn from your experiences with Zach? What what do you admire about what Zach Snyder brings to filmmaking, his approach, his attention to detail? What do you take away? It's Zach's attention to detail. Zach's visual talent is extraordinary. And the way he tells stories, you see it through the visual. He's such an exceptional crafter of moments. and love him or hate him. Everyone talks about the movies that he makes. And so I've learned a lot from his version of storytelling

in the sense that he relies on those moments very, very much, and he's very much the visual medium. And he's so good at it. Sax visuals are second to none, man. And it's something which I'm going to take with me. Absolutely. And I do take with me. When I dream of doing my own fantasy saga like movies or TV shows, the visuals are a major aspect of it. And I'm sure a lot of that is down to experiencing what Zach Crofts. He sets the bar very high for any aspiring filmmaker, anyone that wants to create a world.

I mean, I always think back to those first like first like 10 minutes of Man of Steel. and it's just like, what the fuck am I in? This is amazing. I don't want you to get you into trouble with like Snyder cut discussion. Every word is parsed out like insanity. But as his eyes go wide, I can see it. You guys can't see it, but his eyes went wide. I know it.

But I'm just curious. It sounds like we're going to see like four hours of this. It's going to be a four-part series and that he's going to then put it all together. Like, in your recollection, did you shoot a four-hour movie with Zach? Was there that much movie in what you initially shot with him? I mean, I didn't, because we know what happened to my character. That's fair. That's fair.

It was the script you saw a 250-page script, though? Was it? I mean, it's so long ago now. I've made five movies since then, Josh. Come on. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's everything that he's shot is what he's using. And, of course, there's certain things you can add because, I mean, let's talk about the opening of the movie

with the invasion of Earth and the gods defending Earth, et cetera. Yeah, okay, that's all CGI, apart from a few characters. And so there's stuff there which you can build in post. You can spend, you know, $600 million on making CGI stuff. Sure. And so, yes, I would say there are, is definitely a four and a half hour movie there. It's, it's in the can plus the stuff which they're going to craft in post now. And so, I mean, I'm just really excited to see, see his vision

realized. I think as we were talking about earlier, it's he got to be the train. And I think it's only fair that train gets to reach its station, which it was aiming for. I think it's important that that vision is realized whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't matter. It's a, it's a it's a storyteller's, it's a filmmaker's right to have that vision realized. And I'm excited to see it. I'm excited to see what that vision was and how it looks. And especially, he's got the advantage of hindsight now. And it's going to be even better. I just want, I want to see a good movie or series of movies. And you're cool with growing the mustache back, obviously, so that they can just digitally move it again. Absolutely. I'm going to grow the mustache back just for that

event and then I'm just going to put like a little band-aid over it to hide it. That's pretty much what they did the first time around, so why not? Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, we all saw it. So are you back shooting Witcher now? Are you in the thick of it? Yes, I'm actually at Arborfield Studios right now. I don't know if it sounds like I'm in a cathedral to you, but it's, I mean, one of the, one of the studio buildings and they're shooting just over yonder. I just assumed you your home was a scary black box. Well, actually, ironically enough, it's only black on the back. The rest of it looks like a super budget fortress of solitude around me.

It's all white polystyrene walls. I wish we could turn to the camera around. Oh, wow. So second season for this, and as I alluded to early in our conversation, this was a property that meant a lot to you. Something you chased must be so gratifying that the audience responded and you get a second crack at it to continue this character. What are the lessons earned for you from the first slew of episodes that you're applying to this next batch?

What are the lessons I've learned? Or is it simply just an opportunity, like obviously the advantage of it, ongoing story is fleshing out the world, flushing out the character, more time to let it breathe? I mean, yes, I mean, again, I'm a carriage on this train. and it's about it's about finding my character's place within the overall vision of the showrunner the showrunner has a particular vision for the show and for the characters in the show and as you I mean I don't know if you read the books but the books certainly the first few is very much from a gerald perspective and so with the shift of the showrunner's vision where it's it's an ensemble cast more so than a singular lead

And the perspective is shifted to be almost more of a Surilla Yenifer perspective. And so it's about finding my character's place within that vision and making sure that I do everything I can to be as faithful to the source material as possible that I can be within the structure set out for me. And so obviously I want to be a loyal soldier and I want to make sure the train keeps

running i'm not going to derail the whole thing it's it's about making sure i play my part in it but also um maintaining my my love and belief for the fantasy and the books and indeed the games because a big gamer and that the stuff which cd project red did absolutely stunning and they set the bar super high for when it comes to everything witcher and so yeah it's it's about being It's about finding that place in there where I can do both. I can help the showrunner realize their vision and also bring everything I can from the books and from that psychopathic, like, law, loyalist nature of mine

into my own personal character. It seems we're in a cool spot where technology is caught up and an appetite has caught up to these fantasy, video game, genre properties where there are, opportunities to spend the money required and to attach the right talent, the right actors like yourself and the right creative visionaries to projects that are worthwhile. 20 years ago, you know, when we were growing up, it was few and far between. It was like until like, you know, Brian Singer did X-Men and stuff like that. It was like then finally there was the shift. This is a conversation we've had

a lot over the years with me and other actors and yourself like video games have had a tough time getting the proper adaptations. Is there another game that as a gamer that you are like, why have they not exploited that? Why have they not turned that into a great film or TV property? Does anything come to mind? Elder Scrolls. Elder Scrolls, Skyrim, Morrillwind.

It's that there's so much, they've built such a universe there. But that's a tricky one. That's a really tricky one because I think some of the mistakes of movies, which are adaptations from video games, are that they try and do the video game as a movie and that doesn't work

because you, I mean, especially when it comes to something like Elder Scrolls, for example. Well, you just talked about yourself as the loyalist as the guy that needs it all to be accurate. Absolutely, but it can be universe accurate. But if you can't do the Elder Scrolls as a movie and give the user the same experience, because the thing about Elder Scrolls is the sandbox environment.

You can do whatever you want. You start off as this character, which is a blank sheet, and you can go in whichever way you want. And you can even change direction halfway through and go back and do something else. And instead of being the, you know, the emperor's guard or something, you end up being the most preeminent assassin in the land. You kill the emperor. And it's, you can't give the viewer that same experience. But what you can do is you can be a loyalist to the universe and the world and the rules

which exist within that world. But you have to pick a story. And that's where the trick, or the tricky bit, is for adaptations. If I were to ever adapt Elder Scrolls, it's going to be really difficult to please everyone. You do something like Skyrim, how do you play the character? Like, which story do you take? Which story do you tell?

And that's where the difficulties lie, because the gamer gets to choose. And when you take that choice away, There's immediate resentment. Yeah, it requires a certitude of vision, someone that you trust behind the camera or writing it. And someone with the confidence, again, you know, Zach Snyders of the world, good or bad, someone that knows what they want and will stick to that. Absolutely.

If someone said, okay, you know what, James Cameron is going to make a Skyrim movie, everyone's on board. They're like, it's fine, it's cool. James Cameron knows better than I know. It's cool. Yeah. It's like, I wouldn't have done that, but it's James Cameron. great. And it's, that's the thing. You've got to trust, you've got to trust the filmmaker. You've got to trust the person at the helm. And that, I think, makes it easier

for even the most resentful of gamer to be like, well, I wouldn't have done it that way, but you know what, it's pretty good. As we wrap up, I'm just curious. We obviously don't know the future, the future of Superman, that those are rumors every day. I'm not going to pick your brain on that. But just as somebody that's been a part of that universe and is also a fan of that universe, Are you excited about the new films that are coming? I mean, we obviously have Wonder Woman coming with an Aquaman sequel that's going to come. The Flash movie sounds so cool in that it's opening up this multiverse. I mean, Michael Keaton, Batman, coming back?

Come on. Henry, does that make your brain explode as much as mine? Yeah, that's going to be, that's got to be crazy. It's, yes, I am. I'm really excited. I want to see, I want to see which direction they're going in. I want to see where they're taking it. I want to see, I want to see Gals Wonder Woman again.

I want to see, I want to see Jason. Aquaman again. I want to see where these stories develop to. It's exciting. It's exciting to see what they want to do. And I love these superhero characters. Obviously I do. And especially the DC universe. So I mean, yeah, yeah. And I want to see how audiences react. I want to see how people, what they like, what they don't like, because that to me is fascinating. As someone who wants to be a producer as well and maybe even one day direct, it's to see how audience. to react to stuff, especially stuff that I've been a part of and may continue to be a part of. It's like to know that, to see how the reaction happens real time and be an experienced outsider as well,

or experiencing the thing from the outside as a viewer. Absolutely amazing. Absolutely amazing. And I can't wait. I just hope that everything opens up cinema-wise and we're all clear of the pandemic. so things aren't necessarily rated unfairly on you know certain circumstances like we look at tenant I haven't seen tenant yet same but tenant it's sort of it it hasn't done as well as everyone thought as you're doing the box office but that's because we're at the tail end of a pandemic and everyone's going well I'm not going to the cinema and it's it was an experiment it was and that experiment didn't work for that time again I'm not speaking for the movie I'm just speaking for the cinema I don't think anyone was ready yet it's and I

possible times, yeah. All these next things have come out. They're going to be, everyone's going to be ready, and people will be going back to the cinema. Thanks, as always, for geeking out with me, my friend. Here's to another 10 years of talking about superheroes and Sherlock Holmes and genre and fantasy and just movies in general, and maybe you'll be, maybe in the next 10 years we'll be talking about your producing a directing career.

I wouldn't be surprised. Hey, let's hope. Let's hope. All right. Thanks, man. As always. Thank you very much, my friend. And I hope to see you again soon.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters.

We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone.

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