Happy Sad Confused - Henry Cavill & Matthew Vaughn

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Henry Cavill and Matthew Vaughn have a long history together dating back to STARDUST. Now all these years and many successes later they've come together for the new action adventure extravaganza ARGYLLE. Both gentlemen are veterans too of course of Happy Sad Confused and chat with Josh about auditioning, stunts, and a litany of exciting upcoming projects including HIGHLANDER, WARHAMMER, & more. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! HelloFresh -- Go to HelloFresh.com/happysadfree and use code happysadfree for FREE breakfast for life! ZocDoc -- Go to ZocDoc.com/HappySad UPCOMING EVENTS February 6th -- Emily Blunt -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. It is the greatest privilege of my professional career to have this opportunity. And this is the stuff I've been dealing with since I was a kid. This is sort of, is the stuff I spent my free time daydreaming about as an adult as well. And I get to bring it into life. And there is no greater reason than I join the industry than doing something like this.

And I'm very happy to be here. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Sad Confused, we have a returning champion, I believe, for the third time on the podcast. And a newcomer to the podcast, he's a glutton for punishment, he was just on the show, he's back for more. They are re-teaming after many years apart on a wonderful, awesome, super fun new movie called Argyle, and more importantly, they're teaming up for Happy, Sad, Confused today. it's Matthew Vaughn and Henry Cavill Welcome, gentlemen

Hello, hello, thank you very much Hello It's good to see you both Congratulations on the movie I was just I'll gush on the record too I mean I gushed off mic Which is meaningless

because it's more important for them to actually see it on camera Right Matthew It'd be nice Yeah The movie's awesome It's super fun I've seen it twice

Didn't have to wanted to So I encourage everybody to check it out Matthew when we were chatting about this Just a few months back We talked a little bit about the challenges of something like this,

the excitement of something like this, which is, well, based on IP technically. I'm not sure how many lies I said to you. I've had the time of my life doing this press because I've just been lying. The greatest spy, the biggest, the bigger the lie and it's a whole new arena, the world of lies. Continue, please, I love it.

So it's been fun saying some truths, some mistruths, some upside down truths, but that's go see the movie and it will all work. So well, hopefully you've now seen it does make sense. After you interviewed about me, were you in there, did you feel satisfied by the, by maybe being a little bit misled or were you irritated or did it hopefully make you just go, all right. There was, there was no irritation. There was sheer, I let myself go with the ride and came out of it with some questions, but, you know, a satisfying experience that, you know, you don't want one of those things that just like, oh, you got to wait three more years for the next one for this to be satisfying.

You need it to work on its own. And this one does. That's, that was, okay. I'm interested in what the questions are. Well, we'll get there. We're going to be spoilers a little bit later on. Spoiler questions. But the challenges...

I'm not interested in the question. The challenges and excitement of delivering something like this that, you know, Argyll doesn't mean anything to anybody before the marketing campaign of this began. Now, you've gone through this to a degree before. I go through the pain and the torture of trying to do new IP. And, you know, and I'd say to studios in the past, presence, probably in the future, when Star Wars, when Raiders, when these, when these movies came out back to the future,

they were fresh original IP. They weren't based on anything in the sense that they were new, right? And then I think marketeers just got comfortable with just saying they wanted branded IP in the studio. The studios like branded IP, branded IP is all they've been looking for. And I'm learning it even on. this what's hard when you're trying to launch new IP is in the theory you need to spend more money because you need to educate people what the IP is and you can't just do the

same rules for branded IP because it's non-branded and that's why a lot of non-branded IP doesn't work because it wasn't given the more chance and because it's unbranded IP the studio don't want to spend more money on it they would rather spend much more money on Superman or Bond or Harry Potter and I'm like spend money on that guys you just got to put the date up yeah you can you know and but if you really want to create new stuff you've got to be brave and you have to commit um and yeah so yeah we're going through it now you know our giles it's not easy to get people to lean in or understand what it is um and i hope you know why we're doing this is is we you know it's like guys is if

the audience complains they don't have enough fresh movies um they got to support fresh movies as simple as that and give it a chance. And then they'll get rewarded with more. So it's a vicious cycle that or circle that we're trying to break right now. So before we get to Argyle, I do want to talk about your connections in the past because this goes way back to Stardust, of course, 2007. Yes. Henry, give me a sense where you were at in your life when that came around.

Because, you know, by looking at the career, you were a working actor, you had a prosperous career, You've done kind of Monte Cristo, maybe Tudors was around the corner. Yeah. Was it a big opportunity, a big moment to get into the audition room for Matthew Vaughn and Stardust at the time? Obviously, yes. I think it's interesting that you said, you know, I was a working actor, I had my career going. At that stage of a career, you don't feel like you have your career going at all. It takes, like, a solid 15 years and go like, I think.

I guess they're not going to be out yet. Yeah. It was wonderful working with Matthew, you because I just got to see what it was like working on one of those movies where you're working with the director who has a particular vision and I've worked with Kevin Reynolds before as well fantastic director but this was my other big movie and Matthew was very generous with all of us I have a lasting memory of us all spending time with him in his house and that was a really really good experience because you got to see the mind of the person who's creating the thing

and also spend time with the person and you realize that there is a life outside of just the work on set and coming from the sort of background I came from it's all about work, work, work and Matthew showed me that it can be both and I think I'd forgotten that lesson for many years but then being back on set

you're reminded and you think oh, this can be fun and it can be about connections and you're supposed to have a great time and Matthew's just good at cultivating that environment. I would also imagine just as, again, are many conversations about the kind of films and stuff we were raised on,

that was basically the first kind of genre project you'd done. So it must have been exciting just to be in that world. Yeah, it was. I mean, I was there so briefly, mind. Well, you made an impact, Humphrey. Yeah, yeah. I love seeing people's faces. They're like, oh, my God, that was you in that movie.

What is it with you? and giving him unusual haircuts in movies. It goes back to Humphrey. People are talking about this one. When you're blessed with this face, it gives you poetic license to have a little bit more fun with it. I mean, he was the first person

to give me a mustache. Yeah. It's possibly what you're a hard out of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's, I suppose, actually. One of the great things is that Matthew allows me

to be characters, which a lot of people don't. They want me to be a certain thing. And so I'm really enjoying acting more now, being a bit more loose and enjoying playing something left of Stoic. Right. Yeah, and there's some inherent... Left of Stoic, I'm like that. We went to the same school, which are your old Stoics.

Yeah. Okay. So do you remember what you saw in that first audition way back when? But with Henry, charm. And, you know, Humphrey was meant to be sort of, what's the word a dick I was waiting

I was very curious and I was trying to find but he had to have a charm to him especially at the end and I was always wanting the look that you have between De Niro and yourself

at the end was just it's priceless and I knew Henry could do that like Henry would I just knew he could do it I had no doubt no doubt I would imagine your audition days

if not entirely behind maybe entirely behind you are you do you relish that at this point like were you somebody that enjoyed that I talked to actors that have so many different kind of feelings about auditioning like it's an opportunity or just it gnaws them up inside or I mean yeah all auditions are opportunities that there's no doubt about that but they are also it is I don't know what the process is like now but certainly back in my day horrific process it's terrible I mean this room has more character than the

rooms you'd sit in typically be sort of a white office room terrific doing the audition I bet because you these people people come in and you know how desperately they want the part and it's horrible just thinking a only one person's gonna get it but also it's terrible some people come in and I used to you know sometimes watch X Factor with Simon Cowell going it it is what it's like and and there are some people that they just don't want they would want to act they want to be famous and and it's terrible they come in and I'm like why am you wasting my time and whoever

everyone's the time is it's unfavor fair and and I think um but auditioning I get and try I actually feel I really do try and help people through the audition and have casting directors going why are you being so nice these people why you just that's useless get them out the room um but um it's and it's and it's it's so odd because the environment normally you're reading like with the someone who's also reacting to the person that you're acting to and you've got someone who's with a cigarette well used to be like cigarette yeah and then sort of just reading off a page yeah slightly deadpaned and watching you

with judgey eyes and you're like if they're even watching you. Yeah, exactly. Or they've got a picture of the neck, you know,

they're looking at a picture of another actor right in front of you with a big dick next to it. It's tough. It's a really horrible, horrible, but I'm more interested

we talked about this coming over of in chemistry tests. Right. Because that's that, you know, you can cast the two greatest actors in the world, but they still might not have

chemistry together. Right. And that's the unknown. So I'm a big believer in chemistry tests even with movie stars and I say it protects you me and the audience so yeah it's important and touching on both of those things it's sometimes you just have a bad audition right it doesn't mean you're a bad actor but then that carcerict goes oh they're terrible or that director says you're

terrible um I did an audition for Patrick Stewart many many moons ago for the lion and winter and I walked in there and Patrick's there doing doing sort of the reading with you and I completely dropped the ball. I just screwed up the audition. Sometimes it happened. It's like doing a bad take or having a bad couple of takes on set. And afterwards I called my agent. I said, I screwed the pooch on that one. I got it wrong. And he said, well, do you want to go back in? And I was like, I don't want to bother like Patrick Stewart. I don't want to sort of say I want to go back in. He said, look, just go on back in. It's fine. So he called, called the casting director, got me back in a few hours later. And afterwards, after I had sort of relaxed and gone,

Well, I've ruined it already, so I might as well just go in there and do the thing. Yeah, nothing to lose. And Patrick Stewart said to me afterwards, he said, I'm really glad you came back. Thank you. And that was a big eye-opening moment for me where I realized it was okay to not get it right every time. Right. But also saying that, that's why the auditioning process is so harsh,

because it's not a great read on whether an actor is a good actor or not. It's just whether... It's such a specific circumstance. It's a different skill set in some ways. Someone could be greater auditions and terrible on set. And vice versa. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, the reason why I bring this up, and we talked about this before, I mean, you can and should take such pride in your casting over the years. I mean, dating all the way back, you know, wear cake on. I'm curious, like, does it feel like at this point you have this kind of like coterie of actors that you could call upon and think of when you, when a new project comes around? There are a couple here that we've seen in previous films. Popped up. Yeah.

So how does casting work at this point? When something like Argyle comes up, do you automatically, can you instinctively just think, oh, Henry would actually be perfect for that? Well, when I work on the characters, Henry just had a moment, and I'll say it again because he looks so surprised, and I quite like that. It's like I imagine to old movie stars, so I'm free to cast, and I find people I think will channel what I'm hoping for, but then give it a unique spin. So for me, Argyle was a mixture of Connery and Roger Moore, right?

So when he fought, I wanted it to be Connery. Easy, but the thing is, now that I've heard it once, I wasn't, I'm not like, oh. Luckily, he didn't say that to you before doing the part, I assume. He did not, thank goodness. No, I tend not to tell the act, because I was an actor, it's not great to be told, hey, I want you to be at like. You'd be like other actors, yeah, these two great actors.

Yeah, so you're fine, but these two great actors, I'd like you to be more like them. So that was Argal in my head, meaning to the top. of Connery but the the one-eye eyebrow raise which he did without me asking him to do did it perfectly with the girls kissing I do it by accident sometimes well I can't even raise one eyebrows so well done and and then with Aiden Wilde you know I was really sort of wanting that work called the Gene Wilder Nicholson that sort of sort of you know the clues in the name the wild but the charm of Gene Wilder as well And that's where Rockwell came about.

And, but all my movies, any, you can ask me any character in any movie, and I'll tell you who it was based on, well, you know, who was inspired by. And then, you know, and then we find the modern day version who then turns it into their role. Had you, had you guys ever, were you keeping in touch over the years? Had you discussed anything else? I mean, I could imagine, you could finish the Kingsman world, presumably. Yeah, we talked about Kingsmen, still talk about Kingsmen. I don't know whether Argyle screwed Kingsman up for you, but, you know, never said ever. Who knows?

Who knows? It's your universe. Yeah, yeah. But I'm also at the, you hit an age where you tend to want to work with people that you can get on with. And there's mutual trust and respect. And therefore, you can do your best work and you can make mistakes. You're not going to get punished for making a mistake and you can fix it together. So you're free. So, yeah, so I also have a.

secret chemistry test or whether I think I'm going to get home with the person. The most important chemistry tests is you with the after. Yeah, they don't probably know that part. So actually, it's funny you're saying because I remember when you came down and really, it was really nice when he came to that first time he came to the house.

And back then, I was trying to encourage, like, again, it was about trust and so that the actors would feel safe with me. And remember, I wasn't that experience with actors. So the whole thing of directing actors was slightly intimidated. Well, very intimidating. because if you don't know how to do something,

it's quite hard to ask something, someone to do. You know, I would find it very hard to teach you how to speak Swahili. It's just not going to work out very well. I mean, I'll get a book and I'll figure it out. Right. But I don't know how to speak Swahili, and I don't know whether you do.

I'm just, but if you do, it'll make my life a lot easier. Yeah. So, and I, and I, and that's, you know, so when you came and I knew Henry was a decent person from that point. And, and I just try to make sure that, that they feel safe and I feel safe and especially about that I really didn't know anything about how

acting is it's still something I have no comprehension how they do it right it's it's like the thing I really don't understand and you've noticed I don't really direct them because I can't get my head around sex scenes it's it's just something I don't understand I also don't understand it my I'm not

a fan but I feel quite awkward about it yeah you go right okay what I need to do what I do Okay, guys, I need you two to get in bed, take your clothes off, and I go, wow, is this really acting? I suppose it is, but it's bloody odd. You know, I think there are circumstances where a sex scene actually is beneficial to a movie and rather than just the audience. Yeah, I hope so. Well, that's the thing.

I think sometimes they're overused these days. And it's when you have a sense that you're going, is this really necessary? Or is it people just with less clothing on? Right. And that's where you start to get more uncomfortable when you're thinking, there's not a performance here. Right.

There's not a piece which is going to carry through into the rest of the movie. Your public has put a point out by the way. So it's that sex scenes. Yeah. Hold on a second. Fair attention.

No, I saw Celine Paul as well. I was like, am I, do I need to? But you didn't go to drama school, right? So, which I think is one of your secret weapons, right? So you have a different technique. But I cannot imagine when you go to drama school. drama school, they go, right, today we're going to teach you how to do sex scenes. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, there's a joke in there somewhere. There is. But not to be said. Not to be said. No, but I do find it weird. It's like if my daughters became actresses and they went to drama school to learn how to do a sex scene, I'll be furious. Yeah, and again, I think sex scenes can be great in a movie. They can really help with the storytelling.

But most of the time, the human imagination is going to trump it. Right. And so I think it can be a little bit of a cop-out if a TV show or a movie is just filled with sort of gyrating bodies and you're going, okay, but I mean, what is this doing for us apart from the idea of like, oh, naked person, great. I agree, but we just English prudes. Perhaps, but I mean, it's, yeah.

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arguably, I don't know, arguably your most romantic film, I would say. You've called this your first date movie in a way. Yes, yes. This is definitely a date movie. And that was part of the, I think, in our earlier conversation that we couldn't really talk about. But I think it's safe to say, without revealing too much as we used to head into slight spoiler territory. There's like a very sweet, bittersweet relationship that really drives this story. Has Matthew Vaughan mellowed? What's going on here? What happened to you?

You're getting soft on me? I wouldn't say have mellowed, but in the end, you know, in life, if you do the same thing again and again, I'm going to be bored, but I think the audience be even more bored. and and I just I felt a romance in the stone and I saw that was really it was literally

in my first successful date and I went with this girl to remain her name don't look at me and control yourself but we went to and I took her to the film purely because the name romancing the stone

I thought I was going to hate it and I liked it more than her but what it did do it gave us something to talk about afterwards in the left awkward manner and it became a proper discussion called what she liked I wasn't as keen on what I loved she wasn't as keen on yep but we both loved the movie so I wanted to try and recreate that a movie where you know either side of the coin should we say whether

you're a man woman woman woman man man and every other iteration iteration of the world that we now live in sure you can find an area of the film to latch on to and then debate whether you like it or not but ultimately come out with a smile on your face Do you remember your first date movie? I think so. I remember, I think it was a double date. And actually, I wasn't on the date. I mean, I don't know who my date was,

but I remember who the other people were. Yeah. Two friends of mine from school, it was Titanic. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a date movie. Yeah. Yeah.

That's the ultimate date movie, arguably. Yeah. Until this one, obviously. Oh, yeah. I mean, for that last generation. I guess Argyle is probably, the new Titanic is what we're saying. Well, I'll take that.

Half that box office, I've heard of it. Yeah, yeah, I'll be like, yeah, count me in. Yeah, twice. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I remember seeing, and I was actually a little, I was probably, what was like, 18 or something when I saw Titanic.

So are you out of the demo? And yet I was still, I think I still saw it like seven times. Yeah. In theaters. There was something. Seven? No, truly. Oh, wow.

Yeah, I was obsessed with it. I thought it really worked. I mean, it still does. I think, sort of it was the same for my group of friends. it was it was that's the movie went and watched a lot of times I think you said it because the girls are going to go watch it and you're like yeah okay what what movie do you think you've seen the most in a theater in your life um it's got to be Titanic because at the age of 17 I had to sort of start going to theaters less right at myself

um but yeah probably Titanic okay what about you for you Matthew I I know it was Raiders of the Lost Ark because I saw Star Wars and sort of fell in love with movies at that point but the time I realized I fell in love with them it wasn't in the cinema anymore right and it was really annoying me because back then you couldn't there's no videos so you couldn't you like oh my god i can't see this movie again so then when i saw raiders i'm not making that mistake again and i'm gonna keep going back and back and so raiders was just like it was a movie that was very very special to me i feel like i'm just thinking as we're and a close second was back to the future i saw that a lot of times

i mean these are the ultimate rewatchable movies that just and i could watch right now and still yeah me too love um i was going to say I feel like you need a bittersweet, tragic romance in your future, a Titanic-level weepy that really just, like, kills us as an audience, Henry. Just plotting your future for you. I mean, I have some ideas. Okay. Sylander going to make me weep at the end?

Look, I'm not going to tell you anything. But it won't be obvious when it happens. Okay. Yeah. Sneak up on me. Trust me. Let's talk about dance choreography versus fight choreography. Mm-hmm.

Is it intimidating when you see in the script that opening? sequence. I mean, you know your way around fights. You can do that. You can do any manner of fight from Witcher to whatever. Yeah. But that kind of intricate sequence. Is it all the same? Is it all choreography in a way? It's all choreography. Yeah. Until it's not. And I think with fights, the great thing about fights is that someone's always going to say, we're doing a fight scene, therefore we have to choreograph it. And you can be specific and change things anyway on the day. But with dance, people go, well, just dance, right? Even if it is choreographed and that's where I that starts to make me nervous I'm like wait a second

you want me to do what yeah but when you're working with people like Matthew who you know you can trust it's a huge trusting relationship at actor director an actor producer and it's you know you can trust him and so even if he's like just do this and you go oh and I feel like completely doing this you do it and then you can say afterwards like Matthew I'd feel like it look like an idiot and he say no trust me and he'll show you and then if you still feel I think you've even said those words, if you still feel that you don't like what you were doing, then I won't put in the movie.

Right. And you go, oh, okay, well, then I can be free. And that's a good feeling. And I would imagine, yeah, because when I was watching it again, I think I can guess at least one of those kind of moments. Like that perspective shot on you when you have Dua up there, it's that close up on you from above. Yeah.

That must feel mortifying in the moment to have to shoot that. Because in isolation, that feels probably pretty silly and crazy. I mean, a lot of things in film in isolation. a crazy and silly and you get used to it I mean obviously it's about respecting the person who you're doing those kind of shots with and and it's about making them comfortable unless you're in the awkward position but it's yeah yeah it thankfully was a was a great dance partner both figuratively speaking and literally and so those kind of things you're okay with when you've got a professional crew you know

everything is done in a particular way and there's some mastery at work. So you feel like you're part of a thing. When things start to feel a bit amateur, that's when you start to go, and you start asking questions. If you're asking questions, that's the wrong state of mind. I do feel like, Matthew, you are inching closer and closer to a full on musical.

I'm working on now. There you go. Yeah, yeah. So it was, and actually, I was using some of these moments to see, could I do it? Right. And did I enjoy doing it, which I did. And And, yeah, I mean, I, I've always loved music.

Well, I loved musicals when I was a kid. And then, you know, but I was, you know, I was in the 70s. So the new musicals were things, whether it was like Joseph or Jesus Christ, superstar and cats and, you know, where these musicals, they were sort of like, they were, you know, like Annie, you were just going, wow, they had great stories, but really belt her songs. And, and I think they, they, and I was dragged to them by my mother as well, like to ballet all these stuff so I sort of just learned all this by osmosis but I never and then and then weirdly

I've always said I wanted to do a musical but I couldn't find anything I didn't want to do a remake of a musical because I thought especially because I was offered to do whether Oliver or some and I'm like how do you improve on that and and then I when so Jamie Damien she's a hell sent me the script of the musical and he has some experience yeah he knows well again I was like why you're not well Damien why you're one of my missing here why are you not directing this i think this is really really good um and then he i mean if you imagine the movie is is kick-ass meets wizard of oz all right that's the best way of describing it and and it's really really different and it's fresh and it's and it excites me because i'm out of my comfort zone and so i'm looking forward to to i'm looking forward to trying to make a

musical which is you know what never say never and go for it and um i'll probably make some huge mistakes. But the great thing about movies when you make a huge mistake, you can fix them before you show it to anyone. So, but yeah, we're, we're, we've started very, very early prep and it's exciting. How are your vocal lessons going? You're obviously the lead very well. Yeah. Yeah. Very well. Do you have that ambition to, I mean, I don't know if we've discussed you singing before. I don't have that ambition. No. I've been known to to sing in the kitchen every now again but I've been told you have an amazing voice

I heard it yesterday I was like don't get my yeah who are your spies how do you know spies the spies yeah you don't reveal your spies yeah I think if I ever ended up with some free time in my hands or a role which required it

I would love to work with a singing coach and really to see if I could take it somewhere yeah because I mean always enjoyed it we went to the same school and so I always enjoyed singing in chapel and stuff like that. Did you? Yeah, I loved it.

I loved it. I was just so angry. I had to get out of bed. I mean, that too. I was assuming. That too. I mean, yeah, it's, I do enjoy singing.

And I would love one day to see if I could take it somewhere. I do like a good hymn, good rousing him, Jerusalem. I'm about to say a vow to be my country. Jerusalem's a great song. So, him. Him. So what are you singing at home? Are you singing him?

All sort. All sorts. It's a surprising variety. Give me a good. No. Good. No, I will not. I thought he's going to ask you to sing then.

Oh, here we go. It's a lot. We'll get there. I don't want to ruin your chances to be in Matthew's musical hearing spot. Thank you. Not to cast him even if he couldn't sing, so it'd be fine. I mean, yeah, it'd be worrying. Let's talk a little bit about the challenges and excitement of your

role in particular. We were alluding to this earlier. I think we're starting to get into a little bit of spoiler territory. Forewarning folks. The character you play, it's always about rounding characters, right, and making them feel as authentic and real as possible. That's not necessarily the task with your character, or is it?

Well, that was the challenge, is that you're playing both. You have a foot in both worlds. Argyll, as far as he's aware, it's heart attack serious, but as far as the movie, movies aware it's less so right and so you have to play it with the movie's tone in mind and also the idea of our guile taking himself seriously in mind right which is a fine line to tread amongst everything else that's happening as well um let me just dive into like a super kind of spoilery question

towards the end against spoiler warnings yeah who is the character that i'm seeing henry play at the very end of this i don't know if henry's playing a character but there is a character called Mullet Man. Can we talk about your interpretation of Mollett, man? That must have been a day on set. Talk about trust and a director. I mean, it's that same thing. When Matthew half the through the shoot was like,

by the way, you can have a mullet. It was like, get rid of the bloody flat top. I'm in. One of those things we go, oh, trusted you so far. Might as well keep on trusting you. And the rest, we just kind of threw together. As far as sort of how he sounds and everything,

I was like, throw this out there. because why not make it as polar opposite as possible? Right. And it was fun that day. It was fun. And that's the thing. And it is fun. And you see, again, to the point of playing with a character and be able to play on set,

with Matthew, I felt like I could do that again. Right. And it took a bit of time to warm up back into the concept of it. Because I haven't had that opportunity. And working with Matthew, that is the personification of being able to play again. and you can see it, you can see it in the character. So this post-credit, or mid-credit sequence that we see. Mid-credit, yeah, mid-credit.

I didn't know what mid-credit was until recently. I was like the mid-credit, and now I know what you mean, mid-credit. Now, if I'm putting two together, this is a flashback that is actually almost from the next movie in a way. This is book one. Well, it's from book one. So the movie is, as I did say to you, was book four. So I was sending the truth that this is about book four and book five.

So book one, that is a scene from book one. one okay and played by the lovely Dewey Partridge right and I know what your next question is all I'd say is Argyl wears very beautifully tailored Nero collar suits so he obviously has to go to the best tailor in the wall to get them made sure there's only one tailor in Matthew Vaughan universe worth going to in in not my universe in any universe always go to it with the Kingsman thank but um where to go next all this Okay, so, and that is intended to be the next film that you would shoot.

Yeah, listen, I don't want to count chickens, blah, blah, blah. But, yeah, it would be, it would be great because I imagine this gentleman would be in it as well. I mean, I cannot ever see an Argyll movie without Henry. I won't see another Argyll movie without me. Yes, exactly. I don't blame you. So there's a whole concept, how it all comes together in book one, a film. And then there's Mullet Man for number two, which I am desperate just because I think in that version of Henry, Henry will have more fun playing this role than anything he's done before.

I do think it will be like, it won't be trust me or I'll be like. I'll be like, trust me. Watch this. Yeah. He'll be saying to me, trust me. I don't know if I do. What's going on? Roll cameras, quick. He's doing something again.

Can we bottle tequila. I only got one of these in me. Yeah. basically. But so Mollet Man is a different character than the young version. I don't know. That time will tell.

I do know, but I'm not going to say. There is a method to the madness. No, I believe you. I know there is. Because the thing I'm having trouble, and again, all I would imagine will be explained. Yeah. If we get there is Ellie, obviously,

get spoiler warning, is not Argyle exactly. She's Rachel Kyle. But then we also do now see a character that looks awfully like Henry Cavill, coincidentally or not so coincidentally looks like the argyle of her imagination and that's it looks like mark looks like mullet man not to me okay fair enough i need more time need to see it a third time yeah have no more clues to who mullet man is in the film okay no we talked a little bit about this before i mean let's let's give some props to some of the rest of the ensemble here

because i love bryce and this sam rockwell fantastic it's interesting you have to kind of like you have to get in sync in a different way with Sam than you've probably had in any other co-star in your career you're not playing scenes with him but you're playing scenes with him yes and that was fun yeah it was a new starless shooting a new an innovative technique really to to sell a fight scene and it was a lot of fun working with Sam on that because we could we would spend the the rehearsal days as watching each other trying to learn how the other moves right so So we can...

Like bridge the gap between you? Yeah, so we can apply that to our own movement while keeping our characters individual as well. Right. Because we are essentially juxtapositions of one another. And that's important to express while also doing very similar things. So the challenge from you as a filmmaker...

Filming it twice. Yeah, twice the time, basically. Same setup. Half the time for me. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a big fan. Yeah. Can we do this on every movie guys?

Yeah. Yeah, it was, that was, it was, um, when we came up with the idea and I was like saying, and we'll have the use blinking as a transition. And, and it was, it was, we, we actually, what I loved about it was, you know, Henry's really, really good at fighting and fight cord. Noticed. You know, the whole choreography, he was fantastic. But, and Henry is, is not Henry, sorry, Sam is very good at dancing. Yes. So he has that muscle memory technique. And then seeing the two come together and doing it like they learned it identically but then as henry said you had to do the identical movement with a totally different interpretation right you know

one was was excellent and professional and the other was a bit more scrappy um and rough yet they both have the same result at the end and that's what was really fun to watch really fun to watch and then we said then then then we and i was watching it and it was literally on the day i went hey maybe it'd be pretty cool if they actually we did this with them speaking so old Rockwell had months to learn these long all these lines I said Henry I've got an idea and he's like what I went

I'm going to put you now in on this shot and you're going to say Sam's speech and he's like well try but it's rather long and he did brilliantly he just went to it and I went oh and again some of them then we wrote more scenes for you guys in more scenes in the mirror

it suddenly became It just unlocked a whole part of the film that wasn't designed but it turned out to look like it was and some of my favorite stuff I think when some of your discussions with Ellie is actually they're very sweet and powerful

and quite emotional when I didn't considering they weren't in the movie Well that's a big thing The character went from a gimmick to a fully flesh character and it became a part of Ellie's psyche which was

the comforting part of one's mind which you retreat to when you need to and and yeah without Matthew saying on that day here's a monologue to learn that wouldn't happen and without you saying you'd do it some actors would have said sorry no I can't give me a day maybe I'll learn it and I'm not sure about it

and I'm very grateful because he he went for it and and that's the great thing about creativity because sometimes the craziest ideas or or the least thought through ideas become absolutely brilliant. Driving to the set, what if we try this? If you close yourself off to creativity in the moment, what's the point?

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So we now know, again, as alluded to in that mid-credit sequence, this isn't the same universe as Kingsman. Was there ever a thought to have other Kingsman characters pop into this? No. I think right now, again, you've got to, if you look at my, to Marva's sort of becoming this world of espionage. And I imagine, like, you have, let's say, Kingsman on the left, then you've got our, Gall very much on the right and then there is a middle ground that one day I want to play with and who knows what that's going to be but it's there I see a world where I mean where everything does come together one day and not maybe some of the other characters we have as well from other

movies that there's something there is a but it has to not feel like it as you just said it can't feel like a gimmick it has to have a reason and there's a few reasons that are quite compelling but not yet. Humphrey and Mullet Man will meet one day. This is what I'm getting from this, finally. Well, was Humphrey in a weird way? It was sort of the beginning of the Mullet Man. Yeah, yeah.

Humphrey walked so Mollet Man could run. But you imagine J.B. and Alfie. I think that'll be a movie that people would love to see the dog and the cat. Yeah. I know you can't say anything about this, Henry, but I haven't talked to Chad Stahalski a bunch. I'm so excited for you and Chad to get together on Highlander. This has all the ingredients of something very, very special. Were you a Highlander fan?

What's your passion for this material? What are you excited about exploring with the Highlander world? I'm going to have to answer that very carefully. I was a Highlander fan. They were great fun movies. Obviously, I've watched them when I was a lot younger and since re-watched, but also the TV show. I really enjoyed the law behind it.

That sort of sense of a tragic warrior with more of a story to tell than just a cool guy with a sword doing cool things. And this goes even deeper into that. I mean, Chad told me this on the record that he is going to, he wants to explore the TV show side, like the stuff that was explored there, which I think a lot of fans who are very excited about. I can't speak to that at the moment. but yeah what they've done so far and what we're doing with the development of the script

is extraordinary I think people are going to be really really pleased I'm excited yeah I'm excited yeah and I think it's the same as working with Matthew big swings are important

you play it safe you're gonna just go I guess it was fine but you take a big swing and then people love it or they hate it and sometimes hating it is just as good Yeah, I'd rather get some kind of reaction than who wants a double?

I always say you want the home runs or just the swings and misses. Couldn't agree more. Grand Slam is what you want. Right. Yes. Now, wait, have you been shooting something recently? I'm very confused by this. I read something that said that you've actually been shooting a project in recent weeks.

I've been producing a very, very special movie. I'm very excited about it. I just saw half an hour cut together. this will have the same sort of impact as kick-ass did and I can't talk too much you have you asked Sam Rockwell he just gave because he gives everything he gives everything away in an interview I'm like Sam we're under contract you're not allowed to speak about that no and he's like what and then but um it is a movie what I can say it is it is a movie that is written directed and starring my stunt team it is a

film like no other movie that's ever been made And it's also got Chris Hemsworth and Sam Rockwell in it, plus some other very, very interesting cameos. And it's a reinventing an action movie because it's a film where it's pretty extraordinary watching these stunt guys as they're acting and doing stunts at the same time and you're not having to hide anything.

But sadly, my lead actor slash stuntman broke his back in three places doing one of our stunts. It is incredible footage for the movie because it's in it. And we've now been filming. Keep rolling. Yeah. Keep rolling.

Get out of the shot. As I said, no. No, no, it is like no other movies. So then we filmed him in hospital. So last week we were filming him, his recoupment and, you know, recuperating and he's strong. But it's part of the movie about the danger of being a stuntman. And we're breaking some world records. It's got, I think, 56 action sequences in it that are incredible.

It's funny. But it's, it's a. original and that's and it's giving these these guys a I mean it they deserve stuntmen are the you know they are the real superheroes literally and they I don't think whether it's the Oscars for some reason stuntmen are not given the due respect that they deserve and this movie I just cannot tell you how I'm just so excited and I'm so proud of these guys that's the best way of describing it and they have knocked it out of the park I couldn't be more excited from everything you just said um yeah I was going to say it's the stunt Oscar

or something I want to bring up with you. They've got to do it. They have to do it. Unsung heroes. They're so good at their job that no one recognizes them. And some of these movies, they're half the film. These second unit directors, you know, they're making, you know, some of these movies, it's crazy.

And they get no recognition. Yeah. Publicly. Yeah. I mean, there's whispers of it, but no actual thing. It feels that there's actual momentum building. I hope so. This movie, we have a very, very.

funny sort of you know how you know I have those uniceph like and we we do a save the stuntman video it's very very funny the most earnest thing and I'm hoping the Academy see it and go they've got a point yeah one other thing I know it's early days but Warhammer I mean there's nothing more close to your heart than this I know this is true there are a few other things well yes yeah how professionally speaking yes yeah yeah I have a heart outside of work he does he does but it must be so excited to be able to actually like dive into this world and be the one of the ones

that is just steering the ship and figuring out what the world you want to create is on film and TV. What's this experience been like so far? It is the greatest privilege of my professional career to have this opportunity. I can't say too much again. It's early days still.

But to have this opportunity to bring it to the screen and be at the tiller so it can be faithful. is key to me and this is the stuff I've been dealing with since I was a kid this is sort of is the stuff I spent my free time daydreaming about as an adult as well

and I get to bring it into life and there is there is no greater reason than I join the industry than doing something like this and I'm very happy to be here have you tried to get Matthew into Warhammer or gaming at all? No, not gaming.

I love gaming. It wouldn't be gaming at all. But we've spoken. Yeah. Listen, I'd like, I've said I'd work with Henry in lots of different ways. Okay. Yeah, watch the space. Fair enough.

The happy second fuse profoundly random questionnaire. Either you guys can take any of these. I know the answer to this, but dogs are, that's okay. Dogs are cats. Dogs. Yeah. Despite the Argyle cat? There is no cat better than a dog.

Full stop. By the way, so it's cow and Baggins now too, right? Yes, Baggins is the new addition to the pack. And Baggins, I take it as named after, I know you're where the rings love. Yes, yeah, yeah, he's because where we live is particularly Shire-esque or Shire-like. We felt it suitable that our little creature would be called Baggins. We got a Bilbo? Get another dog, Bilbo, Baggins.

I think we'd find something else. I mean, because he's small and cows getting older now. We'll get another big one and then another small one. You don't want to have a full clutch of tiny dogs necessarily. So there's got to be a big one next. Got to get a big dog. Yeah. I'll have you know one of my dreams now that I'm a dog owner the last few years is

What do you have? I have a pit mix. Wow. You see is the best, the love of my life. I want to do a show with folks like you, Henry, and their dogs. Just chatting dogs. So you're on the hook for the pilot, I'm afraid. Hey, you know, I'm into it.

Yeah. And I'll watch that. Yeah. I love dogs. I mean, I literally, you can't get enough of a dog. Do you guys collect anything, respectively? What I am I? Art.

And wine. But I drink the wine. I'm sorry. I don't think you collect wine if you drink the damn stuff. It's gone. I do collect art. Art's a big passion away. I'm getting to wine as well.

But unfortunately, I do also like the taste of it. Yeah. Last actor you were mistaken for. Does that ever happen? Brat Pitt. Yeah, all the time. Yeah. It's been a while.

um since yeah i don't really remember it's been a lot of for a while yeah you're henry cavil other feet books are mistaken for you maybe maybe i don't know i don't know maybe uh worst noted director has ever given you oh i i dare not share that i'm gonna dare not share that i'm gonna i'm gonna give can i make your flat top just a little bit more flat yeah you can this isn't nearly flat enough yeah can you memorize more flat get rid of the flat top how about a mullet yeah so yeah can you memorize this model i'll get an hour for an old friend Yes. Yeah, he's not the only director who's made me do that.

It's becoming a regular occurrence, actually. Writing as we go. But that wasn't this, to be clear. Our time is up, sadly. But congratulations, gentlemen, on this one. I mean, like I said, I always love the big swings. This is a big swing. It is just hugely entertaining.

I can't enthusiastically endorse this one enough. Hopefully, it's the first of many stories in the Argyle universe. Hopefully so. Fingers crossed. And touch wood. And that's up to. No pressure, guys. It's up to you guys now.

Matthew Vaughan, Henry Cavill. Thanks for being on the pod one more time. Well, thank you for having you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh.

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