Happy Sad Confused - Holly Hunter

Episode Date: February 14, 2018

Don't call it a comeback because if you really look at her resume, Holly Hunter has basically been killing it consistently ever since the cameras found her. She burst out of the gate like a bullet with "Raising Arizona" and "Broadcast News" in the same year and hasn't looked back since. On this episode of "Happy Sad Confused" the Oscar winning actress visits Josh to talk about her return to television with her new HBO series "Here And Now", the phenomenon of "The Big Sick", why she popped up in "Batman v. Superman", and what it was like to live with Frances McDormand way back when.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Sad Confused, Holly Hunter, on grooming with Francis McDormand, broadcast news, and the here and now of her new HBO series. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused, my little podcast where I talk to amazing actors and filmmakers. And this week, yes, an amazing actor.

That is definitely putting it mildly when we talk about Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter is the guest on today's show. She is, of course, I don't know, she's kind of an icon, an icon to me in terms of actors. Going back to the 80s when I came of age, I mean, films like Raising Arizona and Broadcast News, which, by the way, came out in the same year. Imagine having a year like that as an actor, not to mention, obviously, winning. the Academy Award for the piano, getting Oscar nominated again for 13, all the way up to the Big Sick last year, where she could very well have gotten an Oscar nomination for that one.

I would not have been disappointed to see that. Sadly, that didn't come to pass, but it doesn't make the work any less relevant and important. That film is available on Amazon Prime now. And she's also got a new project, a new series called Here and Now from Alan Ball, the amazing writer, creator, creator of such projects as Six Feet Under and True Blood, he is back in the HBO family with this contemporary series that, you know, as the title suggests, is about sort of the world we live in today. It's about a family. Holly Hunter is the matriarch.

Her husband is played by the great Tim Robbins. And it is a multicultural family, a very much a family of today, that is confronting a lot of issues of today. today. As you would imagine, Holly is amazing. And as you would imagine from the mind of Alan Ball, it is provocative and unusual. It has mystical elements, dramatic elements, comedic elements, well worth your time. It has already premiered on HBO, Sunday nights, I believe. So go check out here and now. As you can tell by now, I'm flying solo this week. Sammy could not join me for the intro. Don't worry. She'll be back next week. She gets enough FaceTime on this show. Stop worrying about

Sammy. It's always about Sammy this, Sammy that. What about me, guys? But yes, she'll be back next week, so don't worry about that. Holly Hunter, though, what a pleasure. What an honor. I think you guys know if you listen to the podcast, the ones that get me often most excited are the actors that I came of age with and kind of worshipped as a kid. And she was and is the shit. She's just amazing. And those two films I mentioned at the outset, I of course discussed with her because they were huge in my life and they're huge in many people's lives and they stand the test of time. Raising Arizona was kind of the breakthrough transitional film for the Coen Brothers. They had debuted with Bloods Simple, but then this wild and wacky comedy comes

with Nicholas Cage and Holly Hunter as the couple at the center and of course John Goodman and my gosh, if you've never seen Raising Arizona, go check it out. It is one of the great comedies of all time. And then you follow that up later in the year. with broadcast news? Whoa. I mean, broadcast news I've probably talked to death about on this podcast

because it's really kind of a perfect movie. It's a perfect blend of drama and comedy. Not to mention, it's set in this great, authentic world of, you know, 80s newsrooms, yet feels so current today and that triumvirate of Holly Hunter at the center

that's flanked on either side, by William Hurt and Albert Brooks. I've probably seen broadcast news a hundred times, and I'll hopefully see it another hundred in my life because I just keep coming back to it. It's a classic. We talk about all of it in this conversation, as well as, as I alluded to before,

her interesting past, which is that she kind of became early friends with Francis McDormand. Imagine those two powerhouse actors living together in the streets of New York before either of them were, known by anybody. And they definitely, I think if you listen to this conversation and you have a sense of Francis McDormann's personality, you can see that they are very much cut from the same cloth,

forgetting the fact that they're both two of the finest actors of their generations. They are also, I don't know, tough cookies. That's what makes, that minimalizes it. But like, there's something very idiosyncratic and tough about each of them. And I mean that in a flattering way, hopefully. I'd never spoken with Holly Hunter before, and I'm so, so thrilled that this HBO series gave me an opportunity to get to know her a little bit. She's a smart lady, and she is continuing to just excel in her chosen profession, and she's just one of the best out there. So, without any further ado, we're going to go to that conversation. You know what I'm going to say before that. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to the podcast.

go on iTunes, give us a little love, it makes a difference, it spreads the good word. You guys have been really great, I should say, since we've been reminding folks, I've noticed the reviews have been piling up and the ratings have been accumulating it. And I think we're, there's a little groundswell brewing. I see on Twitter, I see a lot of you guys going back to the early days and listening to the 200 plus episodes in the archives. I love that. I love new people discovering Happy Sick and Fused.

So, you know, tell your friends, review the podcast and spread the good word. also i just want to mention really quickly black panther black panther is out this week check it out you don't need me to say that it's a special movie uh it's a fun marvel movie but it also uh is it just stands for something really important uh the idea of representation uh of representing everybody that makes up our world in superhero hero films or any kind of film is so massively important And I think you guys, if you're pop culture, junkies like myself, you're already getting a sense that this film is meaning a lot to a great many people. And it's going to do bananas business. It's just a fantastic movie.

I did an interview with Chadwick Boseman, who's been on the podcast, go check it out a couple months back. And Michael B. Jordan, who hasn't done the podcast yet, he will one of these days. I know Mike very well. I've done a ton with him, and he's one of the good guys. Anyway, I did an interview with the two of them yesterday for MTV. we're going to post, I think that entire conversation, I think, is going to post up on, like, YouTube soon. So I'll tweet it out, but that's a really fun, like, 20-minute conversation with the two of those guys. So if you, no spoilers in that, if you want to just kind of luxurrate in all things Black Panther,

look out for that conversation coming at you soon. Anyway, back to the main event. Please enjoy this conversation with Holly Hunter and check out here and now on HBO Sunday nights. I'm very excited to say the least that one and only Holly Hunter is in my office. I never thought I would say that. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for being here. I was just saying, it's been a busy year for you in a good way.

We're kind of come, I mean, like almost exactly a year ago is when Big Sick debuted at Sundance. Yes. I had the privilege of being there and seeing it there with that crowd. That was a moment. And then, you know, that publicity is almost still continuing through. I mean, thankfully, it's gotten some love at an award. season. People are experiencing it again on Amazon.

But now here we are all over again with this great HBO series. So the freight train keeps going. No, it's been lovely. You know, it's always, it's a crapshoot to you know, anytime that, you know, I do a project, anybody does

a project, you have hopes for it. You know, maybe there's compromises with the script or the director or the character or, you know, whatever. or the editing or the distribution and with the big sick, like all the stars were aligned. And from that screening at Sundance, which was just such a blast

because there was such a connection that the audience felt for the movie. Had you seen it prior to that screening? I had. But it was completely, it was redefined. Seeing it with a crowd that, you know, there are things that I do and don't like about Sundance, But the best of Sundance is their audiences, because it's a crowd of very educated, extremely turned on, you know, cinema files or just great audience members who know how to participate. Yeah.

And so that was, that was really fun, as you know. Yeah. I mean, you know, having been through, you know, this crazy circus of show business for a number of years now and seeing projects that you love coming. go, sadly, sometimes. And they just, as you said, for whatever reason, it could be one of a thousand different reasons where it doesn't turn into something. Yeah. Does that, I mean, do you have to kind of protect yourself at this point when you're done with the project and when you're about to kind of unveil it and sort of like not get your hopes up at this point? Are you sort of like dulled to that? Or can you still get excited before you unleash something that you

legitimately have pride in? And you, at least yourself, feel like you accomplish the job and you're proud of Well, I think, you know, after decades of experience, now I feel clear-eyed about what I've done. And I can definitely have hopes for things that don't pan out. And often things don't pan out for me and for most actors. You can do projects that don't, for whatever reason, really manifest. So hoping and expecting are two wildly different states.

And I still absolutely hope, but I do not expect. I try in a really educated way to not expect. And then, you know, but then I feel, you know, I experience the disappointment, and then I move on. Right. Because that's, it's good to, it's good to go where, it's good to go where the reality is. Oh, wow, that, that's tough. You know, and then I'm moving on. Yeah, yeah, feel.

Let it all in and then move on to the next. Can we talk about New York for a second? You're a New Yorker. I'm born and raised in New York. It comes up a lot in this conversation in this podcast just because, I mean, I love New York. I love my city. And you came here pretty early on. I know.

City of dreams. It is for many. City of dreams. But it's also, I mean, it's so many things, obviously. We could talk for hours. I would think about what's great about New York. Have you lived here basically continuously since 80? I mean, obviously for jobs, you've had to come and go.

No, I spent, you know, I moved to L.A. for about seven years in the 90s and then, you know, came back. What's, because, you know, you grew up in Georgia. So to a degree, a farm girl decided that New York City was the place to be for you, and not a passing fancy. You obviously have made your life here, raised your family here. It's not a short answer, but I'm just curious, like, what is it that you need in this city that L.A. doesn't fulfill for you, generally speaking. Well, I think, you know, for me, you know, right off the bat, there's a certain, and this has nothing to do with celebrity. This has nothing to do with being an actress even. I'm just completely divorced from that, but I feel invisible in New York.

I feel anonymous, and always have. No matter what, I have true anonymity here, and everyone does. I mean, unless you're a superstar, you know, unless Woody Allen doesn't have true anonymity here. But when you go to Los Angeles, no matter who you are, you can be anyone, and people notice you because you're walking, you're not driving. The second that you are outside of your car, people are looking at you like, make possible perpetrator, or, I mean, it's, but you're, something's wrong. There's something wrong with this picture. That's how I feel in Los Angeles.

And in New York, I feel part of humanity. I feel part of a bigger picture. Nobody's looking at me, but there's, but I'm part of it. I'm in the stream. And I, you know, that's a profound kind of connection that I feel with my own, my fellow people. I hear you completely because, like, you know, I feel like I, you know, it's good for the soul. It's good for your creativity just to like collide with life. And you are colliding constantly with so much in New York.

And, you know, I know some of it's the cliche thing. And I'm sure some people, Ellie's lovely in many ways. but, like, I don't even drive. So I am one of those crazy people, by the way, that's, like, walking on the streets in L.A. And I look like a crazy man. There are sightings of you. Yeah, no, literally.

Who's that? That guy's up to no good. That can't be good. So you came in, came here and out of Carnegie Mellon, correct me if I'm wrong, right? And by then, obviously, you had more than the bug. You were committing yourself to this life, potentially. That's why you went to Carnegie Mellon. Where were you at, like, your first weeks in New York?

How much of a struggle was it here? It was like on drugs. I mean, it was, you know, it was, you know, New York is so intense. And in 1980, it would have a different kind of intensity than it does now. It was a harsher intensity and a more kind of direct intensity. Because of there's, now the cell phone mutes the street culture quite a bit. Everybody's in their own. Yeah, it mutes the feeling of the of the town in a way that wasn't obviously not happening in the 80s.

When it was a harder city, it was a more scary city, but I felt like it was crack cocaine or something. I mean, I felt like I didn't sleep for two weeks. When I got here, I was so high from absorbing the direct hits of energy of the city, of the people that I just couldn't believe it. And then I think I crashed and, you know, I crashed and burned and slept, you know, and was happy that I lived in New York because I had had that experience as a visitor, but you don't have any place to let down as a visitor. So it was actually easier for me to live here because then I could go back to my house

and kind of recover from what the city gave me. Yeah. Which, you know, as you know, I mean, it's just a really, and I love, that's what I love. I love the intensity. What did your parents make of your early passion for acting and your decision to go both to Carnegie Mellon and then to New York? Were they supportive?

Were they, like, obviously acting, the arts was not in your family. It's safe to say, right? No, it's a mystery. I don't really, I really quite, you know, I've gone to years of therapy, darling. And I still cannot put two and two together and come up with four about why my parents were so, like, enthusiastic, serious, nurturing, financially, utterly supportive.

But they were. Not that they didn't know anything about it, but it was something that it seemed like I, you know, I had a knack for. I really liked it. And so they they footed the bill. But then when I got to New York, I was on my own, which was right and good. And doing theater mostly here, I would think. Is that, you know, doing, you know, in those days, you could live in Manhattan and be a waitress. You could, you might have a couple of roommates, but you could wait tables or you could do temp work. Right. you know um and i did you know various things you know those things and um i remember there was this nightclub this a jazz club on 70th and between basically amsterdam called the grand finale oh wow that's literally like a block away from where i grew up i grew up on west 70th street well did you remember the grand finale i don't i can't maybe yeah i don't know it was uh you know not far from cafe cafe Cafe Lux and

and so I was their bookkeeper. They were high. But anyway. Was there anything you had a great aptitude to in any of these odd jobs that you felt like was a fallback? Or was it clear that if acting was going to work out, we were going to have to seriously re-evaluate

some life decisions and figure stuff out? It's going to have to seriously some re-evaluation. Totally. Like no plan B. I mean, I take it. shorthand you know I was a good typist I mean I you know secretarial work right I wasn't bad at okay I don't know if that would have made for a good podcast but I didn't really enjoy waiting right

but it was all you know it was all cool because I could live in New York and do those things and continue to audition for stuff and not only did you you get that opportunity but you you you had what seems to be like short of the infamous like Dustin Hoffman Jean Hackman roommate situation the best acting roommate situation I could ever imagine which is you and Francis McDormand that amount of talent in that 500 square feet whatever you had is kind of insane to think of um did you guys hit it off from the start yeah yeah we did um our boyfriends hit it off that our boyfriends were best friend. And I was living in New York with my boyfriend, Gzegos, and he was best friends with

Vita Otis, and who was going to Yale. And Jegos said, hey, let's go visit, you know, Viz. And Viz's girlfriend with Fran. So we met, you know, hanging out with Viz and Zegos. And then we said, we were living. living up in the North Bronx at that time. And we said, come, after they graduated, come to move to the North Bronx. We've got this little enclave. It's so great. You know, with really affordable, huge spaces, lots of sunlight, you know, very Irish, Latino neighborhood.

Yep. And end of the D train, 200th Street, at the end of the D line. Great. So, and then we both break up with our boyfriends after a period of time. Sure. And then we had an extra apartment. So I should, you know, move in with, come to my house because my apartment was bigger than France. So. Amazing. Then we, yeah. And did, did, uh, she obviously ended up making a life with, uh, Joel Cohen. Uh, did. So you guys were all good friends, obviously. I mean, we'll get to raising Arizona. But even before that, um, was there, like, I'm curious, like, what was the, where was everybody at in their lives? Was everybody kind of like on the.

same level in terms of like struggling and trying to like figure out that like the quote to quote big break or were you all getting by and was like was Ethan there was Sam Ramey in the mix I'm just curious to like set the scene for me a little bit of that group well um so Fran and I were up in the North Bronx both of us busted up with our with our bows and then we we had this apartment together and I was doing I was doing a Broadway show and um Fran was doing theater around town too and Joel and Ethan came and saw me in this play. And they said, hey, you know, we're casting this movie Blood Simple.

You know, you'd be so cool. It'd be so great to work with you. And I said, you know, I'm leaving this show for another play. And I'm signed on to do that play. I'm not going to be available. But my roommate. Who happens to be one of the best actors ever to walk the earth? Maybe you guys meet my roommate.

And so they met friend. And then Fran did Blood Simple, and then Jol started hanging around with us in the Bronx, and then, you know, we had enough of the Bronx, and then we moved into the West Village on Morton and Hudson. And right above Henrietta, no, what is the name of that part? And it's still around, but it changed locations, not Henrietta Hudson. Anyway, we lived above this lesbian bar. And Joel, you know, and then eventually Fran left and Joel and she moved in together on the Upper West Side. And then, you know, but we were all like buddies and then we all rented a house together in Silver Lake.

And that was with Sam Ramey and Scott Spiegel. And they were writing Evil Dead 2 at the time on the front porch. It was L.A. living. You could live on the front porch and, like, right all day and, like, drink coffee and switch to, you know, wine and smoke cigarettes all day. So we all were smoking cigarettes, lots of packs in Silver Lake, and I was looking for work. And, I mean, we were all just kind of hanging out in L.A. was my first real experience of Los Angeles. Were you kicking yourself by the time Blood Simple came out when you saw? No.

No, Fran was brilliant. Yeah. friend was great so no it wasn't like that I mean it just didn't I don't know it wasn't that kind of a deal and so then you know

Joel and Ethan wrote raising Arizona when we were in Silver Lake they said read this we wrote this part for you what do you think and they had a little part for Fran so Fran and me were getting to play a few scenes together and the part was amazing and it was kind of my first you know leading feature film role so yeah I mean

but it was kind of more organic then like in retrospect it's like it you could target but yeah it was very you know we had boyfriends and girlfriends that were coming and going and um I don't know people were just making stuff yeah you know scripts were you know it was it was very unselfconscious and not really struggling nobody we weren't it wasn't struggling I don't know it just never felt like I never felt like I was desperate times desperate measures you know in my acting career never never tasted never felt that particular thing's a lucky thing because probably many and maybe that's youth or maybe that's just not I think it's a combination of youth and and and whatever's in my DNA,

but that was not a color that was in my palette, really. And so, yeah. Were you guys on the same page in terms of like the style of Raising Arizona? I mean, it's such a... I don't know what style was.

Well, it's such a different movie. It's funny, like if you look now back at like their work, Blood Simple and Raising Arizona are two of kind of the motifs that they've kind of returned to in different ways. And yes, that's of their body of work.

But at the time, Raising Arizona was like pretty remarkably different from the tone of Blood Simple. Totally. And it demanded clearly a heightened style of acting. It would seem to me by what you and Nick were doing and what John Goodman was doing. And I'm just curious.

But that was coming from the theater. So lots of things in the theater are heightened. You know, I mean, like you can often play tonally, slightly elevated, you know, slightly off the ground in place. That's not unusual. I mean, I spent four years at Carnegie

studying theater and acting. You know, I was in this kind of more absurdist like anything goes kind of thing. And so would Fran, you know, at Yale.

I mean, you're in that really intense you know undiluted soup that is an acting conservatory and then you go out and you start doing movies

and they've got a movie where the tone is a little lifted it's pretty easy I mean you're not even thinking about it as a matter of fact it was harder for me to tone it down and you know still can be I mean when you look back

at that year it's absurd to think that like you know Two of my favorite films on the planet came out from you that year. Jim Brooks then follows that up with broadcast news, which I always say, you know, when people ask me, like, what my favorite movie is or what's a perfect movie? That's pretty much at the top of my list. It's just, and I'm not alone in that, as you well know. It stands the test of time.

It works on just so many different levels. I agree. Yeah. I mean, it's a crazy movie. It's crazy and so watchable and just there's so much to enjoy out of it. um jim brooks is a character he's he's he's a genius but uh yeah but also like i mean i don't know i've only talked to him i think a couple times over the years but he seems like um very affable but a perfectionist or maybe self very neurotic in a very charming way i'm just curious um seemingly

different from any other filmmaker um and i know you've talked i've heard you say that it was that was a tough experience it was a trying trying experience no no not for me for Jim. Oh, really? But at the end of it, I was like, wow, buddy, that was so much fun. And he was like, was it? Pulling his hair out. Oh, shit.

I had so much, it was so much fun for me. Oh, really? Yeah. When you think back to that, I mean, it's like one of the most quotable films of all time, and there are so many iconic scenes. Is there a scene that jumps out at you as that kind of embodies that experience that you return to? No, you know, I mean, doing a movie, you know, I'm so cognizant when I'm watching a movie of what was happening. On that day, you know, where I was, oh, I had a nap that day. I never nap.

You know, I mean, there are all these kind of like backlog channels that are operational when I'm seeing movies. I mean, you know, the experience of working with, with, Albert, who's genuinely unbelievably funny, you know, that was incredible to discover the humor of Albert during rehearsals. And Albert and I rehearsed together a ton, a lot. And we got to know each other and kind of love each other before the movie ever began. And I guess, you know, there's a thing that Jim had as a director, which was to, you you could become his muse and that's that you know at the at the age of approaching 60 now I know

that's highly unusual right it's highly unusual in a way for a director to give him or herself over to that kind of um the vessel through which he's telling a story the yes and also just attention combined with love you know and you know Jane Campion had that too just like

that I just felt that I was in the I was in a a spotlight of love and and kind of adored to be the adored one

to be one who was adored so that the work comes out of that that filter that just is a really rare quality because both Jim Brooks and Jane Campion have very healthy egos

right but so and it is a matter of not turning over their ego they don't turn their ego over to you it's not slavish or obsequious in any way it's just empowering of the actor and I mean and as time goes on I find that directors who give actors love, who just give them love,

it's a, it, that is, in and of itself, is a potent, um, exchange on a movie set to have a director go, you know, I, I just love you. I love, I love you. You know, that alone is, it can be so cool. It must also be fascinating to a couple of the people you've talked about, you've had the opportunity to kind of go back to years later, Jane Campion, you worked with again on top of the lake. Yeah. It took a while, but you in the Coen's routine

for a brother, where art thou. Sally, you and Jim haven't worked together since he hasn't made that many movies. Right. Jim is a different kind of filmmaker. I mean, you know, he, I mean, if you just think about, like, the years that he put into preparing for broadcast news.

I mean, he prepared for years. And it shows because we are still talking about that movie in a current kind of way because it is so, it's so present, you know, it's so felt now, like, with an immediacy. And it's very modern. It still feels modern. You probably inspired a generation of journalists. Totally. I'm sure people come up to you all the time.

Well, that's the best that I've ever been treated by, you know. know, reporters. I mean, you know, the whole, that was, out of my hand, feed, you know. One thing I want to mention that came out of a couple years after that is you worked with Steven Spielberg on a film that I really adore. Always is a very sweet, on a bashed, super romantic film that, I don't know, I just think of you in John Goodman's arms in that film, just enveloped that kind of, like, wonderful visual.

What do you think of when you think of always? What do you think of? Well, I, you know, Stephen is a revelation. He's a one-off also because he has continued, you know, Stephen's desire, his hunger to tell stories is, absolutely happening now. He has a desire to explore

his own psyche you know mirrored by these different projects that he does kind of unfolding himself. It feels very personal to me. What Stephen is still able

to offer up in his his intuitive skills are incredible. I mean, where he was putting the camera in the post was so fresh and exciting and vibrant to me. And very surprising. You know, he was very nervy with his camera.

Yeah, it almost had like that kind of like that Paul Greengrass like handheld kind of like you are there, Verite kind of vibe. Yeah, and it would be, it would be in like odd places. and then the characters would come home to it. I mean, it was very fresh and exciting. Yeah, it's funny. I don't know if I watched the Spielberg doc. Maybe you were a part of it.

I can't remember. I just watched it. I just watched it. It's amazing. It's like, I mean, can you see? It's a revelation. You see the posters on my wall. You get a sense of sort of my age and, like, where I grew up.

I'm like, he's obviously for many and most the filmmaker of our times. And yet still watching that documentary, said this before, I feel like, oh my God, I think I underrated him if that's possible. Like, he's the filmmaker of my life, yet if you look at that, he is just preternaturally skilled and can do, it seems, anything with a camera. Yes. Yes, but, but it, you know, it's, it's not just that he's like handy with the camera. It's like he has an emotional intuition that's extraordinary.

Yeah. It's just extraordinary. And when I found out that, you know, when I went, oh, yeah, of course, E.T. is shot through the prism of divorce. I'd never looked at it as a reaction, you know, kind of a childhood reaction to divorce. Broke my heart. It broke, it re-broke my heart to, and saving Private Ryan. And just to see, you know, saving the first. 20 minutes of see some footage

from that first 20 minutes of saving private run is like nobody nobody's ever going to do that no one is ever going to do that anybody else who would do that would make it look like pornography violent pornography or porn violence

I mean in Stephen's hands it was it was just not that it was it was an amazing you know, unforgettable, visceral experience in the theater. We've mentioned Shane Campkin a couple times, and I mean, just looking back at the success of the piano in every respect, it kind of feels to me like a miracle in a way.

Again, we talked about how big sick, again, we started there, right? Like, wow, it just sort of like everything went right, and that very rarely happens. The same way, I think you can make the argument about the piano. Again, like looking at the times we're living in now, would the piano be what it was today in this strange multiplex superhero-laden climate. Is there room for a piano at the box office? I don't know. I'd say yes.

Well, that's good. I'm glad you feel that. I would think so. But at the time, was it... I mean, look at Moonlight. That's true. Look at Call Me by Your Name. I mean, these beautiful movies that surface and get accolades and get acknowledgement.

No, that's fair. Yeah. At the time, did it feel like, again, you talked a little bit about that collaboration, with Jane, but the way it cut through and the way it sort of became a cultural moment, was that surprising at the time? Oh, totally shocking. Yeah, there was no way that I could possibly have, I remember saying, I don't think anybody's going to see this movie, but the few people who do are going to love it.

Right. You know, they will fall in love with the movie, you know, they will be intoxicated by it. But I totally thought that no one would see the movie. then it's you and anna pack went on a stage winning Oscars it's a crazy it's a crazy story and it struck me like that's not a one-up you've worked with a lot of young performers over over the years i don't know if that's if it's disproportionate Evan rachel wood yeah that's how you think of 13 obviously is that something that do you feed off of that a little bit when it's someone that that is maybe relying a little bit more on instinct a little less trained i mean i even think it's

in a different way, like the big sick, I wouldn't equate, you know, Kumail with, like, a child performer, but he comes from a different background, right? He doesn't have the body of acting work. He is a child. He's a child at heart. But, you know what I mean? I mean, like, I would hope and think at its best, you know, I think I talked to Wilm DeFoe about this on the Florida project, like he worked with performers of different kind of experience.

When it works at its best, there's a tangible energy, hopefully, that is on the screen. And have you found that to be the case? It was not something like 13. Was that the case, for instance, working with Evan and Nikki? Well, I mean, working with Anna was, you know, I, you know, that was Kismet. That was the, that was chemistry. That was an undeniable hookup that Anna and I had for each other. It was just undeniable.

And lucky as hell. And I loved Anna. And I think, yeah, I could say she loved me. I mean, I certainly felt loved by her. She was nine at this incredibly magical tender age. But nevertheless, she was a nine-year-old who hooked up with me. And we trusted each other. And I really got to know her and got to know her, particularly her father.

And it was just very shimmering. It was a shimmering experience to have that relationship with her that was recorded because it was real. It was just a real love. And, you know, that's something that I do not take for granted, and it certainly does not always happen. And you can totally do a movie and not have chemistry with people. and maybe you can even look like you might if the script is particularly wonderful but that was something that was just a gift

to me in my life that was a gift to have Anna and she's proven herself an ungodly talented actress who is an original she has an original energy about her and mystery

about her to this day and that is something that I feel so thrilled for her that she was able to keep that intact from child to woman as an actress. You compared Alan Ball notes with her? She's a veteran of the Allen Ball experience

and you're obviously not in deep. You probably filmed, I would think, the whole first season, but... Well, sometimes, you know, like Alan said to me one day, he said, you're so weird, I saw you across the set and I thought you were Anna. And that's, you know, not that Anna and I look, unbelievably alike but there is something

of the essence that even though we're really different but there is a familial thing. It's funny looking at your your filmography

you were doing TV before it was cool to do TV. You know you were doing like when you were experiencing a tremendous amount of success in film you chose to do some television movies, which were very well received. They were great movies in their own right. But at the time, that was more of the anomaly.

Was that something that felt like a risk or something odd that your representatives thought was a strange choice, or was it just sort of like you were going where the material was? I don't know. I think because I came from theater, that did not really have, it wasn't a risk. I wasn't thinking of it as a risk. Maybe if I'd moved to Los Angeles and it had been, you know, schooled more in what you do, what you don't do, but I was in New York, and that does make that through, through that filter, things are valued differently. For me, those were great

parts. It was great to go from broadcast news to Roe versus Wade felt natural to me. I mean, it was NBC, who cares? I mean, it's, this is a great part. I believe in this project. I'm pro choice yeah sure um you know so in the same with after the piano i did um you know the positive literature adventures of the alleged texas cheerleader murdering mom and it was with the great michael richie right so i was like wow he's a legend yeah i love bad news bears downhill racer um the canada i mean you know michael's smile the michael's movies go on and on in terms of you know brilliance So I was like, wow, this is the next great step. Do you chase filmmakers as much as you chase scripts?

Like, was like, I think it was something like Crash, Cronenberg is someone that I have great reverence for. Was that someone that you were like? I chased Cronerberg. Did you? I did chase David for work. And I did it, you know, very diplomatically and very tastefully. But I pursued him.

And he relented. He relented. He seems like, you know, for as deliciously, and I mean this is the nicest possible, deliciously fucked up as his materials can often seem, a very kind of almost zen presence. Fun, fun, fun guy. Yeah.

It was just fun, fun, loving, you know, very mischievous and fun person to hang out with. Probably good to offset subject matter like crash with someone that's able to giggle a little bit. He can totally giggle. Coens can too, from what I gather. Yes, they can.

But I love and adore Kronenberg. He's a great uteur, and his movies are, you know, they are his. Yeah. They belong to no one else. Absolutely. And his humor just is, you know,

I love how his humor infiltrates his films. I find myself yucking it up through all of his movies except for, you know, dead ringers. I did not. That was not funny. That's a tough one. It was a brilliant. Yes.

And, you know, Jeremy Irons, he should have two Academy Awards for that. But, yeah, I think he's one of the more amusing filmmakers to me. Yeah. Because it's set up against something so grotesque and so macabre and frightening. and nightmarish that he can I don't know what that infusion how he does that right it reminds me I've been talking a lot of the podcast about obviously a lot of the great films that have come out in the recent months and that makes me think of something like I don't even seen phantom thread yet but like that was I felt like a surprising like oh this is actually a black comedy and I kind of love

it like I'm I think I laughed during phantom thread as much as I did it anything short of the big sick maybe last year and I kind of love that about Paul Thomas Anderson's work he's a master as well Are there, and we've talked about a lot of notable filmmakers, do you feel like there are, there must be a few that I've gotten away that still are on that list of ones that, were the ones that you pursued that didn't, that it didn't work out for whatever reasons that? Were you want me to talk to you about regrets?

I mean, I'm not really, I'm not confessional like that. Okay. I'm trying to offer you a free therapy session. I'm not that kind of girl. We'll keep it positive. We'll keep it positive. So here and now, a positive experience. Extremely.

So, yeah, we talked a little bit about Alan Ball. I saw the first episode this morning. Tim Robbins, an amazing ensemble in this. And as the title kind of reveals, it very much feels about the here and now that we're living in. Yeah. I mean, without revealing too much, like the Tim's character is going through, say to say a midlife crisis,

has a speech that almost feels like a speech many people could give in 2018. It feels like a, I don't know, speaking to something in the moment. you know, a zeitgeist moment. But I think that, you know, Alan has the moxie. You know, he's got the daring to, you know, this television series is perched on the precipice of crisis, you know, full-blown crisis. This family is going through each, in a way, their individual crisis of everything, of belief in themselves, in themselves, of, of, of, of where they are in the world, who they think they are, versus who they really are.

I mean, you know, Alan has approached to this project extremely ambitiously, and he has the ability to unfold, you know, to peel. I mean, he's a great sagaist, and he carries these. extremely complicated people in a way more complicated than you could have in a film because you only have an hour and a half or two hours and he goes now i'm going for the big kohona yeah so juggling and shuggling many characters and it feels like yeah i mean honestly seeing that just the first episode i feel like i'm like i'm not even sure and i mean this again in a positive way i'm not sure what this show is yet like i'm not sure where any of these characters

are going uh it could go he did he took takes the time that he, the great Alan Ball takes the time that the great Alan Ball takes and he gets to have that kind of canvas and to shoot it filled with like unbelievable complexity and people who are grandly flawed and not necessarily, you know, oh, oh, I like her. They're not the easiest people, but they are fascinating people. Why are they the way that they are? Are we going to find out? And what are they going to do next?

And, you know, I just think that I so love delving into, being, you know, getting the opportunity to take that kind of dive. Because with Allen, it's going to be a deep dive. And, you know, and he does it with so many. the number of engagements that he makes with his characters is really, it's mighty. Yeah. I'm curious, like, you know, we started by talking about this great kind of full circle year you've had from Big Sick to here and now. And I've heard you talk about before coming out of your previous series

might have been, if there was a difficult time, kind of like a moment where you had to kind of take stock of sort of like your place in the industry, that might have been the time in terms of like, okay. You mean after that series? Yeah, totally. Yeah. I was like, wow. So where are we at today with this great success of the Big Sick,

which had this, like, amazing run that continues? You have this great HBO show that's just starting. I mean, do you, I don't know, are you ambitious as an actor where you're like, there are things I still need and want to do? Or are you noticing, like, I have a different new niche that I fit into. The scripts are getting better? Or is it all just cyclical and, like, this year will be good? Next year might not be so good, but don't worry, two years ahead might be a good year.

What's the attitude about sort of where you're at now? Well, I mean, there's a natural ebb and flow to anyone's career. That just happens maybe unless you're Tom Cruise. I mean, and even Tom has had some ebbs and flows. But nevertheless, he manages to remain on the crest of like a super startem. I mean, I don't know if you saw it Made in America, but I thought it was really the Doug Lyman. I thought it was really fun. Yeah. Cruz was great. I mean, he's still putting it out there. But with the rest of us more lowly, you know, mortals, you know, there are definite ebbs and flows. And I can kind of take my own temperature at this point in my life and go, yeah, I love to act. I mean, I love the expression. I love

the exchange with my fellow actors and and with a director if you know but the directors i mean it it's all a little bit of a crapshoot but you know it's i i come with an extended you know palm an open palm right um and love doing that it's interesting because i was You know, I'm thinking about it like, I would think right now the directors that are kind of coming of age that are kind of like my age. I'm 41. So I was, you know, I was 11 when I saw Raising Arizona and Broadcast News. And as, you know, I can tell those stuck with me in a profound way. Are you finding that kind of like you're getting kind of a, I feel like you've always been in favor and always been acknowledged. But like the people that are making films now, there's kind of like a different generation now that like remember. and loves you from that work and wants to utilize you in a different way? Well, I mean, Showalter. You know, Mike Showalter from Big Sick, you know, is a much younger guy than me. And once again, that was a very special collaboration that I had with him.

It was based on a real trust, effortless trust that I had in Mike. I just trusted him. And so did we all. You know, that was just what, the language was effortless between all of us and that we all had with Mike. It was like, Mike is our leader. If, you know, if, if Mike says he got it, he got it, he got it. Well, it's also like, you know, you go back to that Raising Arizona conversations. Like, you were all making the same movie.

You all, you know, you and Nick Cage were making the same movie. If you weren't, that would have looked like a strange. would have been tough. The tough thing. And in the same way, I feel like the big sick. We were all making the same movie. If you're talking about tone,

if you're talking about whatever the word is. Tone is really crucial. And where are you at in terms of like, you know, you look at a thing like Batman versus Superman? Is that something? It's like, you know what? It's a nice offer.

It's a studio film. It's a good. Totally. And that's fine. There's nothing like, why should we thumb our nose at? You'd be talking to another actor. I don't feel that way.

I just don't. I mean, I've worked in my life for lots of different reasons. And Batman versus Superman was an adventure all on its own. You know, I mean, it was like nothing I'd ever done before. I don't know if you know Zach Snyder, but he's a totally adorable guy who was kind of a lovely Peter Pan kind of energy. leading the massive troops, you know, in Detroit, which was also a total adventure to be in Detroit at this time in its life.

Sure. So there were lots of upsides. And not only that, but it was like, okay, people are, they'll, if I do this movie, they're going to see me in this movie. This movie is going to be seen. And it was. And I do movies where they don't, they don't see the light of day. Right.

because things happen. Things happen along the way. It's like in the old west, you know, when it's like, oh, you know, Uncle Jeb is going to, he's going to come see us, you know. And it was like, you know, by the grace of God, maybe I'll get there by supper tomorrow night because he's going to be riding horses through the mountain pass, blah, blah, blot, blitz, winter. Maybe he runs out of food, maybe, whatever. That's the journey of... That's kind of the journey of making them, especially an independent movie.

It's like the climate is not, it's harsh. It's to say the least, that was just that Sundance and it's like that that environment has changed and I was thinking as I was watching it, for good or for bad, like 80% of these films are not going to be seen in a theater. They're going to be seen on that. I mean, and maybe more people will see them. They're festival movies. But on the other hand, they're going to go on Netflix and Amazon and maybe more people

will see them that way. And so, you know, is it good or bad that's beyond that? Or maybe they'll go on Netflix and Amazon and just fall into the book. black pit of the black hole. I was trying to keep it positive. I'm so sorry. I went into the independent hole, the ditch. Well, you've been through it, so I get it.

And the last thing on kind of like the blockbuster side of things I do want to mention is Incredibles too, which I'm extremely excited about. Yeah, me too. How often does a child just recognize you from your voice? A ton. A ton. Yes. If I want to really be anonymous, I don't talk. Well, you have the events for being able to do accents, but I assume that gets old at Starbucks.

You don't want to always have to put on a dimmer voice. Yes. Oh, Penny. Jennifer. Yes, don't trust that woman that's drinking the latte with Jennifer on it. That could be Holly Hunter guys. Honestly, it's been a real, real treat. As you can tell, I'm a big admirer of your work. Thank you. I'm so thrilled. that you're more than going strong. The big sick is, if people have not checked it out,

Kumil was here, so we've given it a lot of love. We'll continue to. But now, here and now on HBO, just starting up right now. 10 episodes? How many are we starting? 10? Nice. Okay, so 10, as I said, it's an amazing ensemble,

but it's also from the great mind of Alan Ball. So trust in that. Holly, it's been a pleasure, truly. Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello, Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to breakdown late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar

in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional plus Mortal Mortal Kombat 2 and Edgar writes The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost

podcast on Apple Podcasts Spotify and YouTube.