Happy Sad Confused - Hugh Jackman & Benj Pasek & Justin Paul

Episode Date: March 20, 2018

It's a movie musical trifecta on this edition of "Happy Sad Confused"! Hugh Jackman returns to the show and this time he's brought some very talented friends, the Oscar/Grammy/Tony winning team of Benj Pasek and Justin Paul. All three are basking in the glow of their hugely successful original movie musical, "The Greatest Showman".  Despite a soft initial opening and divided critics, the audiences have spoken and they love this film to the tune of nearly $400 million worldwide. In this conversation the trio talk to Josh about the film's unlikely trajectory, what they'd like to do with the material next, and why a superhero musical may not be such a bad idea! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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or go to explorevolvo.com. The new BMO ViPorter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks, more points, more flights, more of all the things you want in a travel rewards card, and then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO ViPorter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit BMO.com slash ViPorter to learn more. Today on Happy Sack and Fused, Hugh Jackman, and Pacek and Paul, on their musical phenomenon, the greatest showman. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz.

Welcome to the show. Welcome back to another edition of Happy Sack Confused. Sorry, we were off for a week. Life gets in the way. But the good news is an embarrassment of riches coming at you, starting with this episode. I know one person that's excited. I, like, I can't breathe. Sammy, Sammy's freaking out.

If you've listened to the podcast before, you know that Sammy is the world's biggest huge Ackman fan. Oh, my God. She's going to kill herself. This is me. So, yes, so I had a rare and fun opportunity just the other night.

Basically, the greatest showman, as you guys know, opened over the holidays. Opened actually not to huge business at first. The opening weekend was kind of underwhelming, but it's become this great success story in that the drop off was very minimal. It might have even gone up. And it now is like a legitimate of a phenomenon. You know, the music was all over the Winter Olympics.

The soundtrack hit number one. It's made nearly $400 million at the box office. It is proof. I'm so happy for him. I really am. He cared so much. It is proof that, yes, and it was a passion project. He was working on this for nearly a decade.

Yes, that's why for so long I know. And so I was invited to introduce a special screening, a sing-along screening, because there have been these cool sing-along things where fans go out and sing-along with a soundtrack to the movie. Did you sing-along? I didn't. I can't do it. I just can't. It's just not me, Sam.

You know that. Are you surprised? Not even during, like, did you dance a little bit? Obviously, I'm always dancing. Go ahead, try and stop me from dancing. Did you react to what was happening in any way? Or were you, like, annoyed that people were talking about? during the movie.

My head moved with rhythm. Only because he was there. Because he was watching me. He's like, does Josh like it? He's not dancing. It was fun, though, because the audience didn't know that Hugh was there. Oh, my God. They knew Pesick and Paul were there, and that was enough for them, but then to bring out

Hugh. That's dangerous. It was dangerous. It would turn into a fire hazard. People could die. I felt in danger. I would have just thrown up all over the person in front of me. Masses.

Jesus. Um, so right before that, I had a little chance to do a podcast chat, a little bit shorter than usual, about 30 minutes as opposed to the 45, but still got a bunch of good stuff in with, uh, three gents. I'd never met, uh, Benj and Justin. And those guys are awesome. I mean, they're cut from the same clop as you. Well, they're great. I mean, I love Dear Evan Hansen. I loved La La Land. These guys are, you know, the kings in their respective world right now. They are the go-to lyricists and songwriters right now. They've won an Emmy.

They've won a Grammy. They've won an Oscar. They were Oscar nominated again this year. So a real pleasure to talk to them. And Evan Hanson. I'd said, Dear Evan Hanson. Tony. Oh, Tony.

What did I say? Oh, wait, Emmy, they haven't won. Grammy, Oscar, Tony. No, Emmy yet. Do they have any gut? I think they did, but didn't they write for Smash? They didn't get the Emmy for that for Smash. Smash got robbed yet again. People love Smash. I loved Smash. You think I'm kidding. If you didn't love Smash, something's wrong in the universe. So this is a great chat. We cover a lot about, about Grace Showman, of course, but also talk about sort of their future musical endeavors and whether they're going to be collaborating again. Wolverine musical?

We joke and talk a little bit about. It's not a joke. Well, we do talk about, I ask the question. and you'll stay tuned for the answer about whether, you know, we're seeing all permutations of superhero movies now. Logan was certainly a different kind of a superhero movie. Why not? Someone is going to take a stab at a musical superhero movie. Might as well be Wolverine. Might as well be Wolverine and Hugh Jackman.

So, yeah, we talk a little Wolverine stuff too in there for the comic book fans out there. What about Lay Miz? Did you hit Lay Miss? I mentioned Lay Miss. Great. I was curious, because Laymiss was the first movie musical. He did, of course.

Of course. And I was curious if there were other ones early on, and he did confirm that there were a couple other very famous movie musicals. He almost did. Stay tuned and find out. Should we keep it moving? I think Chicago was one, right? Yes. Yes.

There's also, okay, one more tease. There's an amazing story involving Grace Showman and Nicole Kidman in this podcast. States of the bitter end. This is the best. It's good stuff. It's going to be the best. Always a pleasure to catch up with Hugh, and great to meet these two very talented gentleman, Benj and Justin. Great Showman is out in theaters, still some theaters, but it's also available on digital streaming services now, you know, iTunes, et cetera.

There's a sing-along version, and also on April 10th on Blu-ray and all those kind of like, you know, conventional formats. You can buy it, and there is this cool kind of a sing-along feature where you can do it in the company of your own home with your friends and family and enjoy it. a whole new way. This is one of those movies that like a Moulin Rouge, I feel like it's just going to have a shelf life. People are going to keep coming back to it. I'm so happy for him. Okay. He deserves him. He needs it. Review.

Rate, subscribe. Please spread the good word of happy, sad, confused. As I said, we were off last week. The good news is, I think you're going to get a two for the next couple weeks. I got it stacked up with some amazing guests. So, enjoy this one and we'll see you on the other side.

And remember, support Greatest Showman. If you haven't seen it already, come on, guys. And review rate and subscribe. Yes. Here's Hugh. Here's Benj. Here's Justin. Oh, one other thing.

What? The audio was a little funky. Oh. But the good news is Hugh, I feel like, is like a little loud. But you want Hugh loud. In a good way. Yeah, don't be rude. No, I don't mean he was being loud.

I recorded it at too high a level. So it might sound a little funky. Yeah, but it's a gift. It's a gift. You're welcome in advance. Thank you. Good to meet you guys. Congratulations and everything.

Hugh. It's good to see you. You too, man. I can't believe you haven't met these guys. No. I know. They're dominating the planet. What the hell is going on?

I'm so glad they didn't answer my call, so it's really nice. It's the only way to see them now is to still think of this movie. I thought I had missed my chance to talk about this wonderful film, but I'm so glad that, like, this one is, I feel like we're going to be talking about for a while. I mean, clearly, we're a few months in. and I mean just give me a sense of sort of like when you guys saw the tide turn it opened fine it opened well but like then it's just kept going and yeah you were very kind about saying open well how did you feel opening weekends did you were you like were you happy I had been prepped that because we were going to open on Christmas day and then they pulled it forward and their feeling was

when we test I'll give you more numbers you probably want But the test was like a 95, which means audiences really like it. So they said, oh, actually, let's bring it forward and let's just get people out to see it. Even though five days before Christmas is not really the time, our audience is probably going to the movies. So I was prepped with a, don't worry about the numbers, it's good. Some people are seeing it. And really after Christmas is when we should watch it. But I'll admit, I was, even with that caveat, I think it was lower than people were expecting.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, everything that we, that I think the telling thing was the, lack of any communication and the silence. No emails at all. Yeah. I'll say that we weren't talking. This little trio wasn't talking. We weren't talking. But like it conveniently, I was

sort of a little thankful. I was like, look, whatever happens with it and whatever is, however it's going to go, it couldn't be more perfectly placed on the holidays where literally every agency and film studio and everyone is closed down. So it's like, you know what? We're going to go off and everybody worked really, really, really hard in this film.

and it took seven years plus to make I mean to develop and then to finally make and you know that should be celebrated and that should be applauded no matter what so it's like you know what everyone's going to have a nice holiday season with their families we'll see what happens with the film and then probably regroup after New Year's

and everyone was pretty silent over the holidays and then we came back after New Year's and it was like what's going on by the time everyone really was communicating again it sort of had turned a tiny little corner. And so it was like, hey, wait, I think. Like, I think everyone was, like, accepted. It's like, okay, this is just not going to do what we hoped it might do.

And maybe even lower than we thought it could maybe do, but not. And then it just started to turn a little bit, a little. And then people said, well, we might get to this. We might get to that. And every week everyone was revising their numbers of where they thought it might ultimately land. And I think people are still revising the numbers. Well, it's funny because, like, I don't know. I'm sure you guys probably went through every permutation.

going into the release of this, like, is this the right film for the times we're living in? Because it's, you know... You could cut both ways with that question. Yes, yes. Is it the antidote to these cynical dark times we're in, or is it going to be like, is the audience just not ready to have an earnest, open-hearted

time at the movies? That's exactly the question. Well, no, I mean, I definitely think we learned that that's exactly what people wanted. You know, we've talked a lot about you turn on the news right now and you're just inundated with negativity. You're inundated with people literally screaming at each other, and that's what we

call entertainment right now. And, you know, we just are living in really divisive dark times, regardless of what side of the aisle you are on, I don't think anybody would claim that we're in a really happy moment in American history, you know. And I think that this provided a way to run away to the circus and believe in the ideals of what you want the world to be. And I think audience has really gravitated toward that. And I don't know that we, intentionally tried to make a movie that, you know, was going to be escapist for the times

we were living in. I mean, we were developing this before things got as divisive as they've become. But I think that it's definitely turned into, I think, a celebration of hope and joy and optimism and wonder and using music as something that is a universal language that people

on both sides of any aisle can connect over and that can pierce you emotionally rather than intellectually. That's the power that music really has, is that it cuts to your core, without having to process or analyze, it's just an emotional expression. And I think that people really wanted to have a kind of cathartic or celebratory moment that just was about joy. Can we, I'm curious, can we talk about just sort of, like, where in each of your lives, like, musical theater was growing up and, like, what it provided in you and when you kind of

found that as an outlet, as a passion, and whether it was something that was embraced by your friend group or your families, um, Because, you know, it struck me I saw over the weekend. It wasn't a musical, but I went to, I saw Angels in America, which was, like, just an extraordinary experience. And I'm sure you guys would probably agree with me that, like, those kind of transcendent moments in a theater, whether it's a musical or a play or a musical in a film theater,

there's something that's just that connects with people on just a more visceral, emotional level. And I'm sure you all had those kind of experiences growing up. It was young for me. I'm sure it was for you guys as well. I mean, I remember performing. Camelot when I was probably six but my father

took me to the theatre a lot he was a big proponent of the theatre and museums and all that stuff as well as the rugby he was very much you know you should be exposed to everything and I remember going to actually the high school I was going to eventually go to he took me to see Mano La Mancha and Hugo

weaving do you guys know you know he knows do you know Hugo weaving he's an Australian actor who was in all the Matrix movies all the cast you would know him if you saw an incredible theatre actor but he was at high school he was here like 16 at high school doing the lead rock and i can still remember like a film he was that good and so i bought the album next day and i remember listening to man of lamentia over and over again and i remember the album of godspell my dad took me to see cats so i think when you love the music

there's a saying about musicals that people love a musical because of the music they love it for the music and it works because of the book and clearly people love the music of this and that's white people absolutely love it and go back again and again. And for me, I think it's the music that got me in when it works. Um, theater as well, Angels in America was a huge turning point for me, which I saw standing room only at the National Theater in London. I was just like Daniel Craig in that years ago. I read that in some production he was in like 25 years ago. He probably was. Well, that's when I saw it. That's crazy. Yeah. I was still. Amazing. Yeah. That's funny because Daniel always said he was 10 years younger than me. So that doesn't work out. The truth.

For you, gentlemen, I mean, you've had these opportunities in recent years to really connect with audiences in a profound way. I mean, you know, to see what audiences respond to and dear Evan Hanson and to see the passion for Lala Land and this, it must bring you back to those kind of experiences you had as fans of theater growing up. And that must be just surreal to say the least. Yeah, absolutely. I think that we were talking with this earlier, like, for us, you know, we grew up with Little Mermaid and Aladdin. Beauty and the Beast. And sort of that was our initial, that was our initiation into not just movie musicals, but movies in general. And so that's always sort of been in our blood and in our DNA. And, you know, I know I was the kid that became obsessed with the cat's soundtrack.

And I played, and I made my parents just play it over and over and over in the car. The same song, over and over and over. And, you know, I feel like there probably was something in me as a songwriter that sort of like felt like I never really make it until like I got to be that song that some kid just plays over it and that's the thing. We have had families reach out to us and be like, we love the soundtrack,

don't get us wrong, but our kids play it in our house, in our car, on the way to school, on the way home from school, over and over and over, and the same song, over and over and over. I play Do Raven and Hanson every day for that six months.

I'm 49 years of age. That's quite grown up yet. Our kids, young and all. Exactly. No, but, so I think, like, that is a really cool feeling, and it definitely does make me think about what the power that theater had when I was a kid growing up, and how that just sort of felt like,

look, I think with any of us just looking for a place to belong and a thing that we can feel like is our own thing, especially as a kid growing up for me. I like I liked sports, but I never quite fit in with sports, and I never quite fit in with this group or that group, but I loved music and I loved musicals and so like it really does there's something about musical theater

that really feels like a home it really feels like people when they find it they just desperately cling to it me included us all of us included because it feels like such an expression of your soul it feels like someone gets you and so

that is a really cool feeling to know that we can now create things that go out into the world where people can connect with them not just here in New York but all over the country and all over the world. Do you guys, I don't know if you love or hate this question, but it's done so well transferring this to Broadway.

Is that something that's entered the conversation? Is that something that you guys feel as a no-brainer? Is that something that you have an interest in? Come on. He doesn't want to own the answer. I think we've been so excited to see the audience reaction to the movie, and this is really a film that was really propelled. by audience reaction and having that kind of passionate, ardent support and seeing, you know,

we talk about it a lot, like kids on YouTube in their bedrooms feeling like this is me is their song and that it really represents, you know, who they are. And it's a declaration of what, you know, that they're able to be proud of who they are. Knowing that it's connecting to fans in that kind of way is thrilling. And I think that we want to find an expression to be able to create or recreate this world in a live experience in some kind of way. We're not really sure what that is yet. It's something that we're all sort of talking about. But we're really open to continuing to explore it and figure out what that would be.

This was, this project over seven or eight years had some rocky moments. Yeah. Because there was no, there had to been 23 years since an original movie musical had been made. Lala Land was probably happening, but we didn't know about it. I didn't know about it anyway. We eventually knew about it. But we didn't even know about Lala Land until a year and a half after starting Greatest Showman.

Right, yeah. But what was I saying? Oh, that I remember about one point, Will We Make a Will We'll. This is Fox. Will Fox maker, won't they? Stacey Snyder, Ramey and said, you know, and Stacy's quite famous in her tenure at Universal for doing

wicked um and so they had that book to make it a move and she said i think this should be a musical and she championed that and she said maybe this could be musical because whenever we did a workshop in the room this thing worked like gangbusters you could feel it in the room in fact when kiala settled sang the song it's on you can see it on video but see it's amazing yeah but what you don't see at the end and what you can't see is 60 money people and studio heads crying and then, Jim Giannopoulos, who was then running Fox, at the end of the song, we know at the end of the show, leaps up out of his chair and just runs across and hugs him crying,

you know, hugs Keala, crying. It works, and that's just in a room with music stands and a six-piece orchestra. It works. What's the musical you want to see Hugh do next? Is there a... Let's cast him. Oh, wow.

I paid him to ask that question. Well, we're, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, with, we're, our goal with anything that the, if any new stats or anything sort of comes out about the album, we just send it to Hugh and we say, see, now maybe you'll do another musical with us, maybe now you'll do another musical with us. Um, um, we, no, we'd love to, to, to, we've talked about the, in the possibility of, of working on something, uh, together next, something original. And, and so that's definitely in our dream, uh, it's on our, um, what am I thinking, like our dream board, or vision board. Yes, it's on our vision board. Um, but, um, um,

I'm trying to think what's another, what's another musical that he showed? I'd like to do something original. I mean, one of the great things about why I love dear Evan Hanson, it relates to people now. It relates to people. It's fun as well, and it's funny, but everyone can relate to it. Adults, me, kids, I think the same thing's happening with this. There's something so exciting. It's difficult.

It took us seven and a half years. Hopefully the next one won't take is that long, but whether it's live or whether it's another film, one of the, for me, one of the great things about kind of tick, this is a success, is that money people go, okay, that team. Let's trust that team. Because I really, I mean, that's why the joke of me stalking them. I literally pulled them over to my house about seven months ago. I was like, guys, we've got to do something. Like, I honestly think in an era, really, where a lot of the great talent is not going to musicals to create original musicals. It's going into the music industry generally,

these guys are going to be remembered as good as any of the great writing teams of all time. I truly believe that. And I'm not just pattering up. You're like, what is he on? What is he want? No, but I really do want to do more stuff because I think these guys are incredible,

and we had a great time working on it. When you were kind of broke through in a big way in film, there was a bit of a music. Renaissance that was just starting. Then it was, it was Mulan Rouge, it was Chicago. Were you going up for those films at the time? Yeah, I auditioned for Mulan Rouge. I remind Baz about that quite a bit. Every day of Australia, you're like, by the way. Chicago, kind of always felt like the one that got away for me because I was offered it at one point. Oh, really? But I really was too young for the part. I was 31. And I remember going through the script going, I've seen it all, kid.

And I'm like, I've been a little bit of, you know, I'm going to say that to Catherine Zeta and as well, we're going to go, we're exactly, we were in primary school together and I was going to go, we've seen just as much as you, dude. So, but I sat there watching the movie with literally my palms were sweating, like, put makeup on. Why didn't you just put makeup on? Well, the right two came around at the right time for you, clearly, between Lamez and this one. Yeah, it's all worked out. I've got, I feel like, the three best people on the planet to ask the stupid question, but it's a semi-serious one, which is the superhero genre has gone every conceivable direction now, and it's adapting. And I know I feel like we've joked about this one.

It's the Wolverine musical happening, yada, yada. But I can see, I can foresee a world where there is a super, whether it's Wolverine or something else, where there is a superhero film as a musical. They're trying everything. Logan is a testament to what you guys were able to push in new directions. Is this the worst idea? That tried Spider-Man. That's true.

That's true. But in terms of a film, do you think that's feasible? Is it just not fit, is it fitting a round peg into a square hole or what? I mean, I think you don't know until you try. And I think both worlds are about not accepting, they're not about reality-based. They're really... In that sense, it should work. In a hypothetical world, they should work.

They're both heightened worlds. So it's like if someone can fly, then... that they should presumably be able to sing. I just wonder, I think that striking tone would be really important. Like something just off the top of my head, I think that Deadpool is a really interesting example of how do you create a different kind of genre within a genre that you know.

So I think that you would have to be very, very specific about how you approached it, but I think it's definitely possible. And teenage gangs in New York, I don't think everyone would have thought, oh, West Side Story is a slam duck. Right, right, right. I mean, you can really see so many examples of things that work

even yours I know dear Evan Hansen there was a bit like we've got a teenage suicide in the middle of this I don't know this is a great subject you know By the way you mentioned West Side Story what do we think about Spielberg I mean if anyone's going to do it taking on I mean I'm kind of fascinated to see what he'll do with that Me too Me too

I've had conversations with him a few times over the years And he said I remember him saying to me once I really want to do a musical So you know and he's fearless man That's a big one to take on Yeah I remember growing up been seeing the opening sequence of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, which is basically a musical

number. It's like it's an amazing sequence. He's got a, clearly, he has it in him. Yeah, absolutely. I'm really excited to see it. I want to mention to you, you must have felt so much pride at the Oscars, not only getting recognition for showmen, but obviously a screenplay nom for... Yeah, it was awesome. Unbelievable. I mean... I can't tell you

how happy I was for that screenplay nom, mainly for Jim Mangold and you know, Scott Frank and Michael Green as while, but Jim, he's so underappreciated, I think. It hasn't been nominated nearly as many times. I think his ratio of actors in his movies getting nominated and winning from Angelina Jolie to Reese Witherspoon, you know, you name it, there's so many actors he's worked with. I definitely think he got my best performances, Logan, and it's people say, well, don't you know. He pushed. He pushes.

he gets he really does elevate everybody's game yeah and one thing I was so excited about for Logan was that he would get a chance to write something because I think for apart from the beginning of his career he's been adapting scripts are already written and he really adapts them and changes them a lot but doesn't get the credit so for him to get the credit and also to get that nomination I was so happy for him are you you just spent some time with Daphne who won an award at the Empire Awards the other day are you even like an unofficial, like, advisor talking to Jim or Daphne about the X-23 thing. No, I was actually asking Daphne about it.

She's in classic Daphne. She goes, I don't know. She's a woman in a few words, as we know from Logan. Completely. By the way, I don't know if you can, I don't know if it was broadcast in any way last month, but if you can find her speech. Really? About five people referenced her speech afterwards.

Like, we get up and go, I'm sorry I'm not Daphne Keene. But she's 13 years old and she literally just. drop the mic that's the greatest speech you've ever heard she's so exactly as you saw in the movie like beyond everything you can expect very sort of uh just present and everything's available to her and no nonsense and there was also even in this great speech she's like you know and like you know in the acting and stuff like this in the great 13 year old moments so just like oh yeah you're 12 or 13 whatever you forgot for a second but she's flawless she's really flawless i'm a little worried about you, Hugh. Usually when we're talking, you've got

like four movies coming up. You have one in the can, which I'm very excited about the Jason Wrightman project, which feels like this is Gary Hart's story, which feels like pretty good, interesting timing, to say the least. Totally. I'm very excited for that. But there's nothing on the docket officially right now. Are you taking a little bit of a break?

Has Deb talked to you about this? This is an intervention. She said, oh, you're going out today, and you're going to work. I said, yeah, I'm going to do with interviews. She goes, oh, for the job you did last year, right? But there's already new jobs coming. he makes really great peter bread though i will say yeah i had a dinner i mean no i'm not like i can make hala peter dinner rolls how do you have read on each other

hugh when do i get the peter i don't think you're all july do you want the hala do you and the peter you want the dinner rolls you hos hala bread's coming i love hearing hugh jackman say the word holla it's very satisfying for me yeah um i'm living the pastoral life personally no i'm reading i'm not sure exactly what's next but you know you're the first to know i hope so I am literally stalking these guys to write something. No, I mean, it is true that there is some time that we're going to be spending, you know, of talking about what we can create. That is another experience that there's a way to sort of extend this greatest showman story and characters and music to take it to a live thing for people to enjoy and to interact with. And it's true that it's kind of become a little more urgent because of the success.

I mean, it was unexpected. No one saw it coming like this. It would be this big. And so there is like, okay, let's do it. Let's get it going. It takes a while to get it ready. It's cool. I think a lot of it I feel like it's been has, we were always talking about this,

but so much of it now with the sing-alongs, and like that, like, it's clear that people want to engage with it and want to be a part of it. And, of course, it's the writers, we love that because it then becomes about them and becomes about their experience and what they take away from. it, so we're trying to figure out how can we create another experience where people get to sort of not just go and sit and be silent and watch something, but feel like they're a part of something for a few hours. Yeah, and also be together.

Yeah. I mean, there's such a push to have things, be streaming now, and you're watching in your own home, and you have a couple friends over, but any excuse to get out of the house, to experience the world, and get to do it with other real life human beings and get to enjoy something in real time. We're in 2018, dude. I don't do think that there is this huge sense that. you know people want to turn off their phones and be a part of a community and and if we

can facilitate a musical experience that allows people to you know leave their living rooms and meet other humans that share passion with them you know not just through a computer screen yeah you do know we're promoting the home entertainment no but I think I'm like you don't look at me like that I'm kidding but I do think that's true a couple of last quick things it must have been so surreal the the Olympics for instance like do they like you know beforehand that by the away. We knew about the commercial, but I did not know about the figure skating on the

Saturday night. No, I didn't know about that either. That was a complete surprise to me. Yeah. To see all of the dancers. That was incredible. Yeah. Yeah.

We were literally, I was watching it. My wife and I were watching the, watching that night. And I hadn't gotten to watch a lot of the Olympics, because we'd been moving all and stuff. We're like, we're going to watch tonight. I don't even think I realized it was the final night of that, any of that stuff. And then we're literally turning off the team and walking out of the room. And she's like, do you see?

hear with? I'm like, I can't hear, I have like terrible hearing. She's like, can you hear that? I'm like, no, I can't hear that. She's like, turn the TV up and we turn it up and there it is they're dancing to it. Did you know about that? We didn't know. No, I got a video about that but I get emails like, oh such and such is doing the pre-oscar thing

and the music bed is this is me and I'm learning all these new terms the music bed. Finally, what's the lesson if there is one to take away from this? You know, you were involved in the development of this for nearly a decade. This was something, as you said, that was not by the Hollywood playbook

this was definitely not the thing to do for you for the studio. Does that galvanize you? Does that inspire you to take bigger risks? Yeah. I mean go for the utopia, which is what we call it. Go for the if you could have any film and

if you could have any kind of musical, what would it be? And for me that was an original musical. If you could, yes, it's harder and it's riskier. But if you can create it, the feeling now is all the sweeter. And by the way, and even if it doesn't work, you can live with that failure you know

I can to go for it and also it's remarkable to me how the story of the movie is playing out in the success of this movie like it's if you even think about

this subplot of the critic kind of saying ah no and you say well the people are happy if you think about this character turning lemons into lemonade of seemingly creating something that he believes in

and taking a while to on it's it's so playing out and so that the themes in the movie of life is what you choose to make it they sound like bumper stickers but they're literally barnum quotes or the noblest artists that are making others happy just going for your dreams yeah what makes you different makes you special all these things that are in the movie i think are played out in the success of it as well well can i go about i'm going to tell little something you can i i didn't tell you these guys it's going to sound like I'm name dropping, but Nicole Kim came around about, Deb and

Nicole have been friends for years. They shared a couch when she first came to LA. So she came and she said, I've got to show you this video. I've got to tell you about my experience of the Oscars. I said, I was going out to the bathroom because it's, we, Cala sang it like 10.30, so it's literally

three hours into the show. She was out there and she got locked out when the music started. And she, her girls love it over and over and over again. she's out there in the lobby and she videos her and cell she goes i love this song and the as she says i love this song too but you can't go back in and sally hawkins is out there too and she says i love this song

and she starts videoing it's literally like a rock cons people are jumping up and down like they're in a rave it is in the foyer outside of all these people who are like oh we can't get back in but we're going to party out here yelling and screaming it is the greatest I'll go to show you the video. It's coolest. Unbelievable. I feel like there are like 10,000 stories like that. Not all of them involved Nicole Kidman, but most do. It's such a pleasure to finally meet you guys. Honestly, I'm such a fan of your work.

It took Hugh and his hollow baking skills to bring us all together. Congratulations on the film, and hopefully we'll talk soon. Thanks, Josh. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, write, and subscribe. subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

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