Happy Sad Confused - Jack Lowden

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

SLOW HORSES is back which gives Josh a great excuse to catch up with Jack Lowden about everything from Gary Oldman, working with his partner Saoirse Ronan to his why he's a Paul Mescal fanboy. Subscribe here⁠ to the new Happy Sad Confused clips channel so you don't miss any of the best bits of Josh's conversations! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! ZocDoc -- Visit ZocDoc.com/HappySad Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It is unbelievable how bad Some directors are at directing actors It is shocking Because they're so good at other aspects of film Of filmmaking I understand that But you want to get the best out of an actor. Like, you know, you need somebody that speaks actor. Prepare your ears, humans.

Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy Say I Confused. Jack Loudern is here. Excuse me, that's first time Emmy nominee Jack Loudon. Respect must be paid. To be clear, Jack is far too self-effacing and humble to care about such things. Or maybe he's such a good actor that I think he doesn't care. We're going to sort it all out today.

I'm thrilled to welcome to Star of Slow Horses, Dunkirk, fighting with my family. The one and only Mr. Jack Loudon back on the show. Welcome, man. Wow, what an intro. That's all you need, right? You don't need to say a thing. Just let me do all the heavy lifting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wish we could have you just...

I'm your hype man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that'd be fantastic. Congratulations, man. We were just chit-chatting. You're taking some time away from some valuable rehearsal So in Edinburgh, Edinburgh, I'm an ugly American. I don't know how to pronounce your lovely city. Edinburgh. Yeah, yeah.

Which I've never had the pleasure of visiting. I need to get around to those parts one of these days. Will you give me the cheat sheet? Will you give me the guide? Yeah, I'm routinely asked for Edinburgh cheat sheet. I was asked for about two days ago. So I need to update it, to be honest. I need to update it.

I don't even know the restaurants that I recommend are still there. So are they, are there, I wasn't playing on asking you, but what are the, you don't have to go restaurants, but what do you say to somebody take spending three or four days in your beloved city? I mean, it, the great thing about it is that it's very, very small in comparison to other sort of major cities around the world. It's very small and you can do most of it on foot and, but it's still to me the most beautiful city on the planet. it's a bizarre city in the way that it has an enormous hill smack bang in the middle of it a city is sort of based around this sort of extinct volcano and then right next to the hill is a castle on a rock so like if you're into medieval stuff or fantasy stuff i mean you know it's it's a great place to sort of lose yourself in but you will be able to find yourself again

because it's small this is perfect speaking my language i'll be there i'll be there um i mentioned it four, congratulations are in order on a number of fronts, but professionally speaking, first Emmy nomination. And, you know, I mean, that's a big one, man. I mean, slow horses is the gift that keeps on giving. You must, I mean, I know you've loved this show from the start, but like, I don't know, from an outsider's perspective, it feels like there's more love than ever for this show. People are really, like, the ones that were slow to find that have caught on, right? Yeah, I mean, it's, like you said in the, in, in your intro is, it is a strange one

because you're sort of as an actor you're sort of not supposed to care about awards you know it's sort of the opposite of athletes you know they get annoyed I'm just you know

we're all watching the Olympics at the moment and you know they get really pissed off if they win silver instead of gold and as as actors it's sort of taboo to even acknowledge the fact that you've even been nominated or something like that

so it's and I feel like this is a little bit different to anything I've ever been nominated for or won in the past is because it's a huge part of my life, slow horses, of course. And it's quite a nice thing to know that what I've chosen to spend a large part of my life on is working, so to speak, it's hitting some buttons for some people. So, no, it does actually mean quite a lot, to be honest. It's, it's really, really rather cool. Did you, as a kid, did you win any Childhood Award? What was the first award you recall having in your childhood bedroom? I was deputy head boy at school.

So I was deputy. So I don't know if that's the same over in the States, but where I come from, deputy was sort of like for the cooler kid, which was a real coup when you're like 17 years old. Because to get that kind of nod, because I think that's voted for by the pupils and head boy sort of voted for by the teachers.

And it's generally the more smarter one, the one that will probably go on and, you know, do great things and run countries and things like that. And the deputies, the sort of one that you have along, you know, who you want to go for dinner with. And it was strange because I was a very shy kid. So it's still probably the thing I'm most proud of from being honest. I've been tracking your movements as best I can on social media. You've had a busy summer. How was the, how was Glastonbury? How were the summer music festivals?

Glassonbury, that's the first music festival I've been to since I was 18. I'm 34 now. I had an experience at a music festival when I was about 18, and I really didn't enjoy it. And sort of being with massive crowds is not normally my jam. But I was convinced to go along to this one. And actually, there was a big provisal, was because like the play that I'm doing right now

it's just me and another actor so there is an enormous amount of lines to learn and I was shooting season five of slow horses at the same time we just finished that so the weekend was the only free time I had so I had to sort of go but I said like you're going to have to leave me behind quite a lot of the time right so I sort of sat learning lines muttering to myself

while hundreds of thousands of people were having fun but I did manage to get along to some stuff and it was great. Yeah, I have to admit, it will surprise nobody that's, that knows me at all that I'm not a, I'm not a music festival person. I feel like, I feel like it's a bit, the crowd thing is a big thing. I like an odds concert here and there, but I'm not like the dancer. It's like, there's a lot of awkward swaying for me.

Like, I don't know. Yeah. It takes a lot. I agree. I, I've always been very much like, why would I go and watch, why do I want to watch a band? And they're like miles away. And then the solution is to watch them on massive screens. And I'm like, why am I like, yeah, I'm like, I want to be on the stage.

I want to see them like running off and taking like gulps of water and stuff. Right. You know, I'm a big sort of rehearsal kind of backstage kind of fan. I would rather watch theater rehearsals and sell tickets for like in the wings. So sort of, and you feel less special. And I also felt a lot of the time with Glastonbury because it's such an honor for these artists to play Glastonbury is that we were making their night. And, like, they would thank us all the time.

And I was like, well, no, we've come to watch you. You know? I felt like people to like, when they say, put your hands in the air, I'm like, that's so you can see that. None of us can see that. Was there one artist that you were turned on to that you discovered or what just tickled you to see that in person? There was, so the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, we went to see keen.

there was just a sort of time where I just feel like everybody of my generation listened to Keen or they listen to co-player or they listen to Star Sailor sort of very piano-based bands with big ballads and that was an amazing experience

I cried, just stood in a field at like three in the afternoon I cried to Keen and then the great discovery of Glassonbury was an artist called Little Sims from I think she's from North London actually the most amazing

and stage presence I've ever seen just, just mad, just so incredible composure and she just just ate the stage up and, and both of those artists had in common was that they loved being there, you know, they truly loved the fact that they were. So yeah, those two. Yeah, it's funny. It's like I, you know, my day job for many years has been with MTV. I'm not like necessarily like up on music generally, but through osmosis, I have to be kind of because of my peers are all like 22 years old. So like I was just at, I was at Comic-Con in San Diego over the weekend. And going into Comic-Con, I'd never heard of Chapel Rhone, for instance.

And by the end of Comic-Con, I was like, obviously Chapel Ruh, everyone's talking, Chapel Roo. It was like, it was coming out of my pores. So I'm always late to the party, but, you know, doing my best as a 48-year-old man, keep enough. You're 48? I am. You don't look 48. I'm falling apart inside.

I appreciate you. You do not look 40. Hey, that's insane. Calm down. No, gone, sir. Thank you, buddy. Also, okay, so in doing my research, I watched a couple of really cool interviews that you did, and they tickled me because they were with some legends in their own right.

I want to talk about both of these people because they're both important in your life in different ways. I watched the Paul Meskell conversation with you, and Paul is obviously just killing it, and I'm not just saying that because he's a fan of this podcast. Thank you, Paul, for listening. But have you worked with Paul? What's the association with Paul? Is that through mutual friends? No, I've never worked with Paul.

We just, I became friends. He did a film with Sears, with my partner, in Australia. And I was over there. And so I got to know Paul through that. And we've just become really great mates. you know there's a whole little group of us that sort of

that really get along and I just adore him I actually Paul I actually sort of E met him when during lockdown when I watched normal people

and I was so utterly blown away there's a scene in that where he I think he's having therapy these characters having therapy and he broke down and like I've I've done my first year of break down over the years, you know, I'm sure like everybody has. But I was so utterly moved. I'm

never moved by those kind of things ever. And I was moved by that. And I just couldn't, he just took my breath away completely. And I was like, I've got to find this guy, a kid at that point. And I found him, you know, through the sort of social media route. And I just got a message to him. And I was just like, I just have to tell you how wonderful you are. And, and sort of from there, I was sort of developed an E, I don't know what you call it, relationship. And then, and now, yeah, I know we're really good, we're really good friends. And I, I just, I love, I just love watching him.

And I love, I love watching Paul navigate his way through the, you know, and like, you know, I've, I've had a relative slow burn in many ways as a career. I've been very lucky in what I've been able to do but I've been very lucky that I've had sort of space to learn and grow and Paul was sort of straight into the deep end I love the way that he deals with it and he's unapologetic for how he wants

to keep as much of himself as possible and I'm immensely proud of him for that alone forget he's acting which is you know sort of, just a sort of strange kind of beauty that very few actors have, how he sort of holds himself is wonderful. But I was going to say, yeah, it's funny because I was thinking that in relation to your career. And you're right. You kind of had a different kind of trajectory. And it also, though, seems inevitable. And I'm sure you've thought about this. And I'm sure you've been up for those kind of like roles that feel like they could like really put you front and center in a giant way,

right? That probably didn't happen for whatever reason at the time. But how you navigate that. And those opportunities are going to still come. You know, like, you know that that's going to happen at some point. You're going to be front and center in something of a sizable, you know, realm. And is that, I don't know, is that something that you think about of like, can I retain what is important to me as an artist in a higher, you know, budget bracket in a way? It's a great question. I mean, my, all I've, you know, again, I'm not going to lie and say that, you know, I'd, you

know, every person wants to be sort of in the best things possible. They're working with the best people possible, you know. And every actor knows that, you know, the more you are elite, the more often that you're a lead, the more sort of say that you have to shape where something's going. And that's the true wonder of and true joy of being lead is how much you sort of get to shape it. And you feel part of it and you get your muscles grow every day because you're in every day. but my genuinely my favorite thing about um the way that my career's gone is that i and i mean this

like i've gotten better at what i do like i'm not saying i was awful or whatever but sure i i am i only do this job for me in terms of that's all i'm really thinking about is me because i i i'm my own harshest critic. And it's really nice that I sort of started only recently sort of looking at stuff that I've been doing. And I'm like, God, I am getting actually a bit better. But I've known that because it's felt easier or it's felt more daring or it's felt more dangerous. And so getting better is what I enjoy most. Yeah. It's fun also to talk to folks like, you know, that have gone through it with you. And I will admit, I picked the brain of somebody you go way back with. Don't be frightened, Jack, but Richard Rankin gave me some dirt, gave me some info. Yes, the one and only. And he talked,

I guess you guys were in a very formative play for both of you, way back when, correct? And he told me, what do you think he told me? What do you think when I asked him for the intel, what should I know about how Jack approaches what he does? What do you think he ratted you out on? I mean, we were Like, I was, I was 19. That was my first big job. What did he say? I mean, me and him once had an argument. Did he say that?

No, see, I'm making you incriminate yourself now. Yeah, I'm going to incriminate myself. No, we invented this stupid, I thought that's why he would have said. We invented this stupid game because it was 10 boys, 10, like, testosterone chocked up lads on tour. and we invented this stupid game called Café Ball. I think it was in Dumbo in Brooklyn with upturned bar stools and a basketball and it was basically basketball,

but you got it in the thing. And those games would get really, really heated. And Richard and I ended up in sort of like a clinch and I ended up sort of like trying to throw him over my shoulder or he ended up trying to throw me over his or whatever. And I think... Too much damn testosterone. Too much.

And like, oh, right, I thought that's what he would have said. Why, what did he take? Well, he went on the actorly route, which I appreciate in watching your conversations. You obviously just love this shit so much. And like he talked about how, and I use the word shit with affection, he talked about how you like to always throw out scenarios, whether it was like, tonight, let's play this as if we're both secretly in love with each other or I think when he was in a play, he was doing McBathwood, Sershah, I think he said, maybe you suggested to him,

that he play it as if it's super dark, like it's getting darker, is that right? Yes, I did. And Richard plays them so well. I find Richard, Richard is this sort of, Richard is, like, again, it's these guys that I grow up. I love watching. It's the same with Paul.

It's the same with all the guys that I sort of feel like you, for one of a better phrase, I've come up the ranks with. Yeah. And Tom Glencarnie's another actor that, I'm immensely proud of it I don't I just watching these actors grow and grow and grow

is one of my favourite things about what we do and we all get on and I do I feel like a sort of a bunch of brothers that you know all started you know we had no idea what we're doing and watching everybody get better and Richard was somebody that to be in all honesty

the fact that he's grown into this absolute funk he's like this like when you were all like 19 or whatever like you just never would have thought that running about playing soldiers literally playing soldiers he's like this funk and it makes me laugh but he's got this brilliant

comic ability and so yeah I give him I used to give him things like your left play tonight that your left foot is in love with your right foot but your right foot doesn't want to know and Richard would play it full blood and I Yeah, it's my favorite thing

And you need those things When you're on a one, I'm sure Yeah, I'm sure Yeah, he makes me laugh like a few others I've done a lot with Outlander over the years And he's hysterical Did you go up for Outlander way back when I could see you being in the mix there

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The other interview I watched, and I promised we're going to talk to horses, but it just tickled me because I grew up obsessed with James L. Brooks. And you have recently worked with James L. Brooks in his first film in, like, 14, 15 years. And, I mean, for me, broadcast news is, like, top five, top. 10 movies of all time.

And I know you talk a lot about trying to inject comedy into your work. And nobody does that better in service of drama, dromedy, whatever we call it, than James L. Brooks. So I'm just curious, that must have been a big moment to be in that world, wasn't it? It was an enormous moment. For many reasons, one of them being the comic element to what we do is something that I have, I have always wanted to, I'm always constantly trying to put it in the work that I do. And then, so to be in what I think is, it's not an out-and-out comedy, Jim's film,

but it's certainly the most comedic film that I've been in, overtly comedic. And then to work with one of the great geniuses of screen comedy was quite daunting at first. And I couldn't quite believe that I was the guy that was chosen to be in that. you know um but he he he is a truly is a genius at what he does um i i i've never worked with a director writer or anybody that knows kind of sound like a dick but that knows love as well as jim knows love he knows all the different versions of love like the most ridiculous and the most meaningful the most subtle um he also i just felt like a kid i would just because he does like 15 16 17 takes jim

And he's got an idea. He's always seen it in a certain way. And we sort of do that for the first four or five takes. You're sort of trying to get what he means. Sometimes you're getting it. Sometimes you don't. And then he will like go, okay, let's forget that.

And he'll go try this. And then you get to about take 12. And he gives you those magic words where he sort of says, okay, now do one for you, which is the most beautiful thing a director can say to you, in my opinion. Because you, it's just sort of validation. You know you've given him what he wants. Now he's like, go do it.

And it was in those moments that I really sort of felt, again, on the theme of getting better, I really sort of pushed myself. And he, he, there was no, it's, he's one of the great directors as well, because it's best idea wins. It's not who has the idea, it's best idea. And a guy of that caliber to be, to be in the position where he turns to you and says, what do you think? You're like, fuck, okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm collaborating with a guy who doesn't need to collaborate.

He can just dictate what he wants, but he's, yeah. And he laughs. That laugh is, like, famous, yeah. Laugh, during takes. And you're like, we're during a take, Jim, and you're laughing. And I've never experienced that. I loved it because I come from stage, so I miss that interception. No, no, that was wonderful.

I can't wait. I can't wait. Okay, slow horses. I was telling you before we started, I've gotten a chance to see the new season. No surprise. It's awesome. It's a really great one. Season four is coming soon.

I'm not going to spill anything. But it's a big one for you, too. I mean, it's a really interesting, intense right from the get-go arc. I mean, you talk about kind of like tracking your progress as an actor. I mean, I guess there's no better, like, barometer. Like, you've been on the show for a few years. Like, do you internalize? Do you say, like, okay, season four, season five, I'm noticing a difference within myself

of how I approach the work. And I, and I progress. I'm at a different level now. Yeah, there's a, I mean, maybe it's just sort of like a, a first day at school kind of thing but when we first started I just looked at the lines and it was delivering

what I thought was on the page and basically tried to do what I was told and tried to deliver what from someone else's imagination. The biggest marker is the longer we've gone the more I'm just, I'm improving loads and the writer Will Smith is so fantastic with that he comes from that Ianucci

in the loop, the thick of it kind of background where a lot of that was in and so like that muscle has just grown and grown and grown because of the show and it's it's the way into to my work now is is is is improv and yeah it's it really is sort of collaborative and i guess like if you've played a character like richard did tell you if you've played a character that long it's yours now you know nobody nobody's taking that way from me it's yours so um yeah it's it's that this the season that you've watched is the season where i really feel it's sort of I think is hitting a peak in a kind of way. In story-wise, things coming together and whatever. So I haven't seen it all. I haven't seen it all. So I'm in order.

No, yeah, it's excellent. And again, not to give too much away. But we can say there's some juicy stuff with you, Jonathan Price. You and Hugo weaving, which I don't know. I mean, I'm doing the math. You must have seen Matrix when you were, what, like nine or ten. So playing opposite, that formidable man must be a moment. It's bizarre.

It gets more and more bizarre that show for that fact that I just, you know, you look over there and there's one Academy Award winner. There's an Academy Nominee. And there's, oh my God, you know, you're just, it's ridiculous. Yeah. And but they're all, they're all lovely. Hugo Weeven was particularly to jump into something like this as well was fantastic. But he's such a nice man, such a nice man.

I know you inevitably end up talking a lot about Gary, as you should. I mean, we've talked about him before. I mean, he's a legend. And after we spoke last time, I did one of my favorite events I've ever done in my career. We did a live career retrospective with him. And my God, like the work alone, but like the humility, the wisdom, it's just like the gold standard. Did that, what shocked you the most as you started to get to know him in season one? Did anything surprise you about any preconceived notions that were that were changed when you started to work?

How often he can think he's shaped? Right, right. You know, but it also makes complete sense. It makes complete sense being an actor. I know what it feels like that I know what that feels like. And everybody else is sort of, you know, it's nowhere near the same sort of level of of this as Gary, obviously. But I kind of know what it feels like to sort of feel a bit. mad because everybody stood there going

no it was really good and you're like no no it wasn't it didn't feel good and it in it so I understand where it comes from with Carrie to say an extent but like Gary could just Gary could just lean against the door and it's fantastic

but that was the biggest shock right often he sort of goes nah it's not working or whatever and getting to watch him work it out is great and getting to see the performance through takes or whatever sort of build and you can see when he hits the crest of the wave and all this kind of stuff it's it's just it's fantastic and i routinely go when him and christin do huge scenes if i'm not in

that day i'll come in and i'll just sit so on set like a strange boy and just sort of watch them behind a sofa um because it's i mean i don't want to miss that i would assume that's kind of both reassuring and depressing when you hear a legend like gary olman say you know like a that was shit I can do better I'm not getting it because like if Gary Oldman can't like just relax and say I know what I'm doing there's no hope for any of them

somebody said I think it was I think it was during Dunkirk or something I think it was Dunkirk and Tom Hardy said that to me when I was like I'm finding it's so difficult I don't know if I'm any good da da da da da da da da and Tom said that's never going to leave you me and that's always stuck at my head like you're sort of doomed

to always think that you're rubbish or whatever yeah Did you, did you grow up again doing math? Like, were you a Harry Potter kid? Was Sirius Black a big thing? Or what was the Gary Oldman of your youth that connected with you? The Gary Oldman of my youth was Fifth Element. Yeah.

Which I'm sure you've had this conversation. I've had this conversation. He's not a fan of his work in that movie. Speaking of it. Well, that doesn't surprise me. That doesn't surprise me. That's, I think that was the first Gary Oldman film I'd watched. Definitely.

And then I came late to sort of the Harry Potter stuff. When I saw his performance in that, that is still one of my favorite Gary Oldman performances. It's so... A serious black. It's so beautiful. It's where everybody else is... They're all brilliant in it,

but everybody else is sort of being a bit big and mystical and whatever. Gary... Yeah. Gary's... Especially then, Gary had this thing across his eyes of sort of looking right through you.

And the way he looks right through Harry Potter that nobody looks like... Nobody looks at Harry Potter like that through the whatever 10 films it was. It's gorgeous performance. Do you know what he said about that performance when I asked him about it? You know what he called it? Shite. Mediocre.

He said a lot of my work and that is mediocre. It's so, it's so frustrating. But I do understand it. I understand. Yeah. When you were backtracking a bit. So I know you grew up, you did youth theater, but you were also into sport. You danced, like your brother, I think was a big dancer, right?

Was, were these all equal passions? as a kid kind of like were you kind of like could you have gone down different paths depending on where your talents bore fruit yeah well we were we were wonderfully supported by our mom and dad we were you know i count myself incredibly lucky and that they they whatever we me and my brother thought we could do we would do like we watched the mighty ducks franchise and thought we could be ice hockey players um and they i remember we sort of convinced them to take us for a trial at the ice rink in Edinburgh for the whatever the hockey team is in Edinburgh and you know within about 15 seconds I think the guy was like they should leave the ice now and but we had the passion and dance was the same dance was a direct consequence of us watching river dance Michael Flatley's river dance but then that one took off because my brother is now a professional principal ballet dancer so that one really worked out for him and I sort of went along with him sort of used to stand next to him in a dance class

and look at myself in the mirror and mutter to him, you know, I shouldn't be doing this, should I? Because I couldn't do what he could do. But it was too late, I'd been on stage and I sort of fell in love with being on stage and then acting just sort of happened from there, yeah. Do you still dance in any capacity, in any situation?

Actually, it's strange, because I dance in this play that I'm doing and we did a dance. I had to come up with this dance, with this wonderful dance teacher, movement coach that we've got on it. and I was absolutely knackled at the end of it. I was soaking wet.

So I'm still boogie every now and again. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love to dance. You got a couple of drinks in you and we'll see what your moves are next time. The evolution from theatre to film and TV, I know, was something that wasn't necessarily you felt come naturally at first, right? Like when you started to get in front of a camera, you felt a little lost? Does that's fair to say?

God, man, yeah. I hated it. Absolutely despised it. I just couldn't. I felt like I was moving through mud. And it's only sort of in recent years that it's, some things change. Something's kind of started to shake off a bit. But yeah, really didn't like it.

What was that about? Was it just like not knowing who to play to, the mechanics of it, the marks? I mean, that's all part of the stage work, too, to a degree. but I guess No, you know it took it took me years to work out what it was and what it is

because of being on stage a lot and from a young age and but I was a shy kid there was somehow it was okay on stage because there was a sort of permission

because it was very much us, I'm on stage audience everybody's watching right it's a sort of permission the lights go down lights come up on me I've got permission

we've all agreed that this is a performance there's something about when I made the transition into screen was that because there's no audience and you could literally be you know anywhere shooting it like in a layby off of a main road or whatever and it's lots

of people in like high vis tops people doing jobs I feel like out on a film set the acting was getting in the way of like a construction site like I'm in the way I'm a nuisance to the real world. Yeah. Can we take a break?

I need to do a bit of handle it. Like, that's what it feels like. So sorry, can you put that pipe down? That's what it feels like. So the lack of the sense of performance, I think, made me very, very embarrassed. I got embarrassed. And so I felt like it was like walking up to somebody working in an office and going, do you mind if I, do you mind if I cry?

You know what I mean? And it took me years to work that out. Honestly, it's taking me years and years and years. And so I'm glad I've worked it out. Yeah, you got there. You got there. Oh, this is it. The day you finally ask for that big promotion. You're in front of your mirror with your Starbucks coffee.

Be confident. Assertive. Remember eye contact. But also remember to blink. Smile, but not too much. That's weird. What if you aren't any good at your job? job? What if they demo out you instead? Okay, don't be silly. You're smart, you're driven,

you're going to be late if you keep talking to the mirror. This promotion is yours. Go get them. Starbucks, it's never just coffee. Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best? You are. I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish.

Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the days. news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start

Here and ABC News because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. You're obviously also in recent years, I mean, you've been working with some astounding filmmakers. And filmmakers that don't necessarily read to me as like, usually, you're usually emotional or validating. I'm not saying that as a pejorative, but I don't think of like Steve McQueen or Christopher Nolan as folks that are going to be like,

nailed it. You're killing it, man. Like, do you need that as a performer? And is that like, you're in the hands of the best, but you're probably not getting like that kind of validation in the moment. So can you kind of in your own head, like clock like I'm doing what I need to do?

Well, it's interesting with those two. You know, with Nolan, with Chris, he's, it's sort of, it's more like a sort of, of like, I guess what it's like, you know, for like Alex Ferguson, like a, like a sports coach, like a real, you know, somebody at the absolute top of the game and it's sort of with Nolan, it's more a sort of nod across a crowded room and which is the film in itself that, you know, you search for it and he just gives you a nod and you just learn to go, oh well, that's the difference between, oh right, he thinks it's good. Yeah, he's, I also

think just Chris, someone like Chris Long, Nolan's got so much. going on in his head. He's got so much more to think about. So you learn to read those things. Steve McQueen, on the other hand, Steve will scream. That was fucking brilliant. Oh, I didn't realize that. I, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm surprised to hear that. Okay.

Oh, I've seen him run in after actors. I've done a certain take, and he's picked the actor up. Like, like, we all celebrate this actor. He has a wonderful way. Oh, I love to hear that. Amazing. It's fantastic. Yeah, obviously, that's the one you prefer. needy actors we need something come on of course you do and but what's wonderful has been on some of these

massive sets is that I'm on it with a lot of massive actors and particularly like the Jim Brooks one I was on it with Jamie Lee Curtis and Jamie and Jamie would say this you know Jamie wants to feel the love too even though she's an Oscar winning you know legend the woman it doesn't leave an actor and I've I have yet to work with an actor that's like couldn't care less if anyone thinks it's the oxygen and it's fun it's fun so so no need to uh your partner just worked with steve i can't wait for blitz this is going to be a big one for the fall i know do you uh did you i guess you don't need to give tips sersha knows how to work with the best but yeah yeah she knows what she's saying um no i um i definitely don't need to

give her any tips. No, and I mean, even when we first, the job that we met on Mary Cooner's Scots, you know, and she was about 23 on that job. And even at 23 years old, it's just sort of, you know, rocking every moment and completely and utterly unfazed by anything. And it's, you know, they're a rare,

they are a rare breed, you know, and these younger actors that, that I work with now, I love it. I love it. I love it when I work with a young actor and there's a difference between being like a dickhead and then just being somebody that's just completely at ease and sort of thrives in it.

And I love watching it. Tom Glencarnie was one of them. Right. On Dunkirk, just watching this kid, he just took to it like a duck to water. And he still does. And I adore him. I haven't seen the Outrun yet,

but I know you produce that, Search is obviously starring in that. What's it been like to collaborate? I mean, obviously, Mary Queen of Scots is where you guys met. This is a different kind of collaboration. You know, some couples, we're never going to work together. We just want to keep it separate. Did you find it a natural, fulfilling experience to work in this kind of capacity with her?

Yeah, I mean, you know, she is first and foremost in terms of the arts. You know, she's first and foremost, one of the elite actors, I think, that's working. even even how young she still is. And we, we've, it's inevitable, I think, if actors are with actors, writers or with writers or whatever, that you, that you, you're drawn towards making something together. We didn't go out looking for something to make together. We, we always sort of fantasized about it or whatever.

And then I read this book and I was like, Jesus Christ, I mean, this part, like, you should play this part and she read the book. and we sort of chased it and then it ended up that we produced it and she was in it and it was one of the great joys of my life doing that project it's it's been it's it's such a hard thing to get an independent film made and it's an absolute miracle and I feel very fortunate that I've had the experience of it but it's one of my favorite things I've ever done with my life and I think her and I definitely want to do more and we're going to do more and we you know we're excited about how how we do that in different ways you know do we produce

do we direct whatever right you've talked about wanting to direct um oh yeah that's gonna happen that's inevitable yeah yeah and um you know i i you know i would love to direct her um i i know she's she she wants to direct as well um so it's it's just it's quite exciting to see what we do but Like, we're in no rush at all. We're in no rush. We just, we want to meet. We want to love it still. You know, we want to love it because it's a tough, tough thing to get a film made.

It's a tough thing. Right, right, right. Well, yeah, we were talking about Paul's career trajectory, again, like, to look at the way she, the choices she's made, because I know she's had franchise opportunities and stuff and, like, just chase the good filmmakers and the good work as you have. Like, this is, this is the way to do it, not, not chase box office. If I wanted to direct and I got Paul to do it, it would be a shit ton easier to make the film. Yeah, get Paul and Sersha and this is a go project. Let's make this happen. Yeah, no, but it's it's, it's so exciting.

And I love, you know, I love seeing other actors that are getting involved in that side of stuff. You know, it's and the more actors that are involved, particularly in directing, more actors like Greta Gerwig, more actors that should move into becoming directors because the best directors of actors still for me that I've ever worked with and I've worked with quite a few people now have been actors. They are the best directors of actors.

It is unbelievable how bad some directors are at directing actors. It is shocking because they're so good at other aspects of filmmaking. I understand that. But you want to get the best out of an actor like you know, you need an act.

You need somebody that speaks actor. Yeah. And I suppose the worst case scenario is like, it's one thing if they acknowledge they don't know what they're doing with actors and I could leave you to do it. But it's like to fake it and try to like give a half-ass direction. Oh, it's that side of it. That's right.

Horrible. Yeah, some directors, some directors like Nolan's very, very like that. Nolan's very like, you know, it's so respectful in it. Like, you know what you're doing. So you do it. You know, and I'll poke and punt. It's just certain bits. But yeah, he's very like that.

that. But yeah, it is the ones that are like, if you were a mango, I'm not a mango. Yeah, it is amazing how bad they are. You'll be happy to know. I check the odds this morning. You're 12 to 1 to be James Bond as of this morning. I know you keep up with this every day. Very much. Yes. Yes. It's, it's something I'm told quite often. People like a good self. I apologize. But do you think I should put any, should I put any money on? on it as would i was that is that a good bet or is that a shit bet i mean you can't i mean it's up to you yeah yes it's up to you you do you want to it's your money here's my question if if that amazing opportunity and look i know it's a long job for any actor this is a one in a million

kind of thing but we talked about comedy do you do you do not that we need a comedic uh james bond but there have been um whiter bonds and and darker bonds is it time for a roger morrish lighter bond is that what the jack loud intake might be I can't speak for the Jack Loudoun take, but I can speak for, it is an interesting moment, I think, what on earth you do do with it and sort of, you know, with, with things of that nature, it's, it, the sort of realism matches with sort of entertainment, and I think what they did with it, where the last one finished and the last, the last, the last, the last, the last, um incarnation of it of of of with daniel was just so brilliant i i just i loved it um i don't really know where they go um and i'm i'm just as eager as everybody else to see where they go but yeah i'd love to see so i'd love to see more humor in it um i don't think humor has been particularly missing from it but i would yeah no it felt like especially as daniel moved through the films

like he was willing and able and and open to kind of injecting some of that humor which was which was fun to see and now he's now he has a full-fledged comedic career going with the Knives Out movies I mean come on he's amazing yeah of course yes so he does yeah

we're going to end with our happy second views profoundly random questions Jack are you ready these are some rapid fires for you dogs or cats which one are you dogs correct this is a dog household well done I thought I was supposed to do it as quick as possible

sorry that was a really cool no no no no you can elaborate what kind of do you have? Do you have multiple, just one? No, I have one dog, but I group, my dogs play a big part in one side of my family from my mother's side. That's, dogs are a big thing. Do you collect anything? Do I collect anything? Maps.

Oh, very nice. Okay. What's the, what's the wallpaper on your phone? Wallpaper on my phone? Let's say, for the record. proof. The more people on my phone is it's a picture of Scotland. Very on brand.

We get it. Yeah, that's quite sad. It's a nice country. It's a photo that I took. Okay, okay. Who's the last actor you were mistaken for? Last actor I was mistaken for? Ben Affleck

Wow Okay, sure That's a compliment I mean he's a little older But he's looking great Yeah Yeah, I don't mind that We kind of alluded to this before

But my question is What's the worst note of director Has ever given you Besides be more like a mango Or whatever Worst note The worst note of director has ever given me Maybe not necessarily a note

It was a director before starting the shoot on a film before we shot the first scene said, so I was reading the book last night, how to make a movie, and that was the first sentence. That's the worst thing that directors ever said to me on a film set. Just palpitations, you just said. Yeah, kind of like, okay, okay. That's what we're dealing with.

Cool. Maybe keep that as an inside voice next time, Mr. Director. Yes, yes. In the spirit of happy, say, I'm confused, an actor that always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you light up, you're ready to have fun, and enjoy yourself. Simon Russell Beale. Great one. Amazing on the stage in particular, right?

One of the great actors. Yeah. Movie that makes you sad? Oh my God. movie that makes me sad if you cry at a Pixar movie you know I'll say James L. Brooks terms of endearment

gets me every time just to say it but that's that's mine that's that's not a bad show I watch there's a film called Finding Neverland about Ray and Barry the writer

the giant up sure yeah I've always found that so sad just had one yeah yeah that Spore alert, it goes to sad places. Yeah. It does. And a food that makes you confused.

Fennel. What are people doing? What are we doing? Yeah, what are we doing with it? Like, stop it. Like, it's enough now. Fennel, like what? Yeah.

You and my wife, you can have a long conversation. conversation. You both hate funnel. Thank you for taking the time out from a, I know, a busy schedule. You're in the middle of getting ready for a big play. Are you planning to bring that anywhere outside of Scotland? I'm going to see you here in New York? Hopefully, if it's any good. Yeah, we won't bring it if it's not good. A promise or a threat. Yeah. Yeah, I promise. If it's not any good, we won't bring it. That would be rude. That would be rude. Well, I've never seen you on stage. So I'd like to remedy that if it's at all possible. That's my request of you. Congratulations, man. The new season is coming very soon as slow horses. It's fantastic as they all

are last season. Amazing. Congratulations on all the nominations, the first Emmy, the BAFTA, etc. All the good things. And thank you again, man. As always, for making the time. I appreciate you. Pleasure, man. Thank you so much, Josh. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him? Or you want me to tell him? No, no, no. I got this. People out there. People.

Lean in. Get close. Get close. Listen. Here's the deal. big news. We got monumental news. We got snack tactical news. Yeah, after a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black and I

are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh and I are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack. To eat a snack. And to rate a snack. Nemptively. Emotionally? Spiritually. Mates is back.

Mike and Tom eat snacks. Is back. A podcast for anyone with a mouth. With a mouth. Available. wherever you get your podcasts.