Happy Sad Confused - James Gunn, Vol. II

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

James Gunn takes a break from being one of the busiest men in showbiz (running the creative for the DCU!) to chat with Josh about CREATURE COMMANDOS, SUPERMAN, BATMAN, and so much more. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Uncommon Goods – Visit UncommonGoods.com/podcast/HappySad for 15% off BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 12/18 – Billy Eichner at 92Y in NY – Tickets here 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There you are, pushing your newborn baby in a stroller through the park. The first time out of the house in weeks. You have your Starbucks, venty, because, you know, sleep deprivation. You meet your best friend, she asks you how it's going, you immediately begin to laugh, then cry, then laugh cry, that's totally normal, right? She smiles, you hug, there's no one else you'd rather share this with. You know, three and a half hour sleep is more than enough. Starbucks, it's never just coffee.

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. You mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. I was at the Superman premiere. Yeah. And somebody came up to me and said, somebody said, are you Zach Snyder? And I said, I was like, no.

And she's like, you're not? And I'm like, no. You know, I don't, I'm not. Sorry. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused. begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy Seag Confused, James Gunn is back from Guardians

of the Galaxy to the Suicide Squad. This man knows his way around misfit teams and with Creature Commandos. He's hit the trifecta. This is a fantastic new series on Max and represents the beginning of a new era for DC Studios, which, by the way, he's leading alongside Peter Safran, not to mention. He's also the writer-director of Next Summer Superman. We'll get to that in a little bit, but here he is. man in showbiz eat your heart out james brown it's mr james gunn how you doing man hey good to see you glad to be

here uh i appreciate i am happy and sad and confused so it's perfect it never has my podcast title been more apropos to the times we're living in right um but let's focus on the positive uh your show is fantastic uh before i get to specific specifically about that how the hell are you balancing your life because you have a few jobs that you are balancing. You're in the middle of peacemaker. Have you found it easy, difficult, challenging to kind of figure out what life is the last two years? Yeah, I found it difficult. And my wife is right over here. And I know she's giggling at you even using the word balancing in regards to me because it's not a part of what's happening these days. I think we've, I think I wrote 650 pages one year. And

And then this year, we've produced 650 pages of material. So that's Creature Commandos, Superman, and Peacemaker Season 2. So it's been busy. Yeah. It is productive. I'm really excited about everything coming up. So that's all been worth it. I will never do it again.

I mean, you are, I mean, you've been, look, you've been living this life a while, but you are eating, you're eating, sleeping, and breathing, D.C. 24-7, I would imagine. which it's a privilege but it's it's a weight i can imagine um yeah it's it's typical so okay segueing into creature commandos can we start with this i am a dog lover i am i am i'm a big pet owner and this is something that has permeated throughout your work your love of of pets of creatures of animals where did you grow up with animals in your life can you talk a little bit about how that's informed your work always i've always had animals around me i've always loved I will say that animals are literally my favorite thing in the world,

and dogs are my favorite thing among animals. So, yeah, I love animals, and that includes, you know, human-like weasels as well. Right. So has specific animals in your life, pets, informed whether it's weasel or rocket or crypto throughout the work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, you know, obviously, you know, I've written crypto is influenced by my dog Ozu, who's the worst dog in the world. And now we get to see the worst super dog in the world.

My, you know, rocket, you know, was his mouth was molded after my dog Wesley. You know, his eyes were based on, you know, him and Groot, his eyes were, they were both, you know, influenced by Wesley's eyes, you know. Yeah, that's always been, I love animals. I wrote Scooby-Doo, you know. Right. So it's like I've just, I love, I love dogs. I was raised as, you know, I have six kids in my family, but I'm the oldest of six.

And I was raised alongside a little terrier mutt named Shawnee, who was like my first sister, my first sibling. And I think we sort of imprinted on each other. And I guess I just relate to dogs as much as I do to humans. There's also something that I feel like you, like Guillermo, Tim Burton could like teach like a master class, like a tryhead masterclass on kind of the love of the outsider slash monster slash creature. And that I think goes hand in hand a little bit with what we're talking about. Yeah, well, I think very much like Garamo, I think that I grew up loving universal horror films, which I'd watch on Saturdays at my home as a child. And I loved those, the tale of the monsters. And it wasn't necessarily, it wasn't

because I like horror movies necessarily. It wasn't because I like being scared. I like the tale of these monstrous creature, who I related to for some reason. I thought the creature from the Black Lagoon was the saddest movie ever made as a child. Like, it just seemed really sad. I loved King Kong. I still remember seeing, you know, the first King Kong on TV when I was very young. I loved it. I just, I was so excited every time King Kong was on the air and it would play like once a year on whatever. It was like a Christmas day to me. Yeah, I love those moms. monsters, those creatures. And now you get to play with a bunch of them and some iconic ones, some we've never heard

or most people have never heard of and some that are just ingrained in us. I mean, for instance, they get to play with The Bride and Frankenstein must be a guess. Yeah, and I think that's part of what, I mean, I love Mary Shelley's novel. I love the original Frankenstein. I love the fact that that was where really horror was created, right? Right. And to be able to play with those iconic characters in a way that, you know, isn't just based on the comic book versions of them.

It's based on Mary Shelley's, the original text. And yes, it's through our own strange lens of, you know, mutants and mercenaries. But it was, it really was inspired by Mary Shelley's original version. So when we caught up recently near Comic-Con, we have this wonderful panel with much of your cast out there. I think a lot of people were pleasantly surprised by how passionate, not to say you were going to come on stage and be like,

this is just something we, like, dashed off. but like that you wrote all of these, that you feel as close to this as you do anything you've done. Are you surprised by this the process because, you know, it's a different kind of a thing. Like you're, you know, I think I'm surprised by it. It was just the best creative. I mean, I said it on the panel that day, but I think it's probably the best creative experience I've had in terms of not directing something. Right. Because, you know, in the past, you know, I was, I've been a screenwriter and just a screenwriter and turned over.

projects to other people and then sometimes seen the first cut of something and wanted to kill myself. Other times I was a screenwriter and also a producer as I've been on television shows and things like that. And that is really difficult for me because I'm a meddling guy and I just want to take, just do it all myself. Right. And so this was something in which I turned those stories over to, you know, to Bobby Pills and, you know, Warner Brothers animation and Dean Lori. And they, they, you know, and we, and I made it clear, you know, follow the, the stat, the text completely. Don't veer off of any of this, not the dialogue, not the screen directions. This is the Bible. Like that's, you got to start there. And they did, but within that,

they added so much to it that seeing every cut was so joy. for me. It was like, I'd come over home after a hard day of shooting Superman and just really working, you know, from morning until night. And I'd get to watch a new cut of one of these episodes. And I go, wow, this is, this is cool, man. This is fun. This is what I think some other people feel like when they turn over their writing to somebody that this is what we've been trying to do all these years. They're happy. Does that open you up a little bit going forward to being, I don't know, I don't know if it's particular to animation or the team you assembled here, but I'll be honest, I felt the same thing with Greg Matola and

doing peacemaker season two and Greg Matola did the, you know, episodes two and three. And it was a very similar thing. I was like, wow, you know, Greg is, you know, there's some things I'd do better in Greg and some things Greg does better than me. But like, there's things in that episode that are like, wow, that's really cool. I would have never thought of that. And he understands the characters so well, it was a, it was a joy. What did you grow up on, on cartoons? Like what, what did you, what animation did you love? I mean, were you a super friends kid or what were you into?

That's it. Super, I mean, all those sort of Saturday, I mean, I was just a Saturday morning kids show guys. So like, I'd wake up at 6 o'clock every Saturday morning. We'd watch Davy and Goliath, if you remember that at all, about the stop motion. animation Bible stories. And we start with that because that was on really early. Right. And then we just watch everything, Dr. Shrinker and HR puff and stuff and the super friends and Scooby-Doo, of course. And I think that's really where that was my favorite time of the week was Saturday mornings. And then, you know, my favorite time of the year was when the new new fall lineup came or

I guess it would have been fall. Yeah. I know. I missed those times. I remember like the fat like TV guide with like the fall preview issue and just like going through. Oh my God, so exciting. Yeah, all these new shows. I'd highlight, you know. And then you would get bummed out when you wanted to watch this show and this show and they were on at the same time.

It's impossible. You're younger, but for me, there was no way at all. This was before VHS. This was in the, you know, this was in the 70s. So like, there was no way for me to watch, you know, happy dope days and the man from Atlanta's at the same time.

I'd have to make a choice. It would be man from Atlanta's every time, let me tell you. So correct me if I'm wrong. Have you ever written animation before? Is this the first time? No, no, no. That was part of the draw to this. You know, Peter Girardi, this was before I was ahead of D.C.,

so Peter Girardi from Warner Bros. Animation was like, hey, you want to do something in animation? I'm like, sure. He's like, what do you want to do? I thought about it a little bit. I said, I think I want to do this Creature Commandos thing. He was like, okay. And then I went off and I, and I started writing the

episodes. And they were basically written by the time I took on DC. So that's why the first thing on the DCU is well planned out reason. Who do you connect to most on this team? I mean, we know from Guardians, you always talked about Rocket being your way in. But is there one in particular that you really connect with here? It's not quite the same. I mean, the bride's a protagonist. So I think in a lot of ways, I really feel for the bride. I think she's the most balanced of all the characters. You know, phosphorus has, I have certain personality things and, you know, like phosphorus. I really do. He is, it is a terrible thing to say about one of the worst characters on the show. But, you know, he talks the most like me, probably of everybody.

You know, yeah, and I've always wanted to tell Weasel's story. But yeah, I think the bride is the one who's the most, you know, just dejected, but not a bad person or a monster in this case. So, but we're going to run this, I think, the day the first two episodes drop. And we've hinted at this, I think even on the Comic-Con panel, tell me if you don't want to say this, but like episode four in particular really through me, like, I mean, that's an amazing piece of writing. That's like one of the best things you've ever written, I would say, sir. I mean, like, I appreciate that.

I appreciate that. Yeah, it's been, that's, I've been holding onto that for that story for a long time. so it's cool to finally see it come to fruition. It was also something that we worked really hard on. Like, that was one that the animation came in. I said, okay, guys, that's really good. But it can be better by this in doing this. And we really broke it down and kept pushing and kept pushing and kept pushing.

Because I knew we had something special with that episode. That in seven, I think, are my two favorite episodes. Are you okay in saying what four revolves around or no? You don't want to keep it. It's a round weasel. Yeah. It's round weasel. Right, right, right.

It's giving depth to the dumbest character ever in the DCU. Right, which is a challenge, and yeah, so works. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution,

in one battle after another, Timothy Chalemay playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuess's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom.

Well, big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth-shaking. Heartbeat, sound effect, big. Mait is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks.

We're eating snacks. We're reading snacks. Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, And in which case, it calls us.

Again, we talked a little bit about some, some of these kind of back, these flashback structure stories are some are origin stories. Some are just moments in their, in their, in their, in their lives. I'm just curious, like, do you have a favorite origin story just generally speaking in the superhero pantheon? Yeah, I think, I think, I mean, like, frankly, Batman's story is great, you know. Yeah. And I like it when the robber never gets caught. I think that it makes more sense that the robber, you know, if the robber is always out there and that Batman's, you know, search for justice is an unquenchable search to write the wrongs of his childhood trauma that he'll never be able to do. Right.

So I really, I really love, yeah, I really love Batman's origin in terms of a simple story. There's also something really beautiful about Spider-Man story, frankly, simply because of the, with great, you know, great power comes great responsibility line, which, you know, it's one of it. But I think that in terms of the actual core of the origin story, it's Batman is the ultimate origin story. If only we'd ever seen it depicted on film, they have to show it one of these days. Some day someone will show it. I imagine a string of pearls. And maybe a close-up on them. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you promise me in your tenure in D.C.? We're not going to see it again, the origin story of Batman? Can you promise that? I don't want to promise it, but I would, I would, I have no plans on it. I'll say that much. I have no friends seeing, you know, I am myself sick of seeing both Superman and Batman's and Spider-Man's, those three. I'm sick of seeing those three origin stories.

I don't need to see them again for a long time. But, you know, somebody can come along and surprise me. and do it in a way that's cool. You know, you just never know. Yeah, the perspective of the pearls. Let's talk about the cast here. You've assembled an amazing group here. Some folks you've worked with before.

Sean, of course, Maria Bacalova, you did recently. And then there are folks like David Harbor and Frank Grillo. Frank's been in the orbit sounds like you guys have been talking for a while. Have you talked about Pacific? Yeah, Frank and I met at we did a big, all of the people in Marvel did some we did some sort of photograph in Atlanta a few years ago where it was everybody that was involved in Marvel and it was the most crazy collection of egos that you've ever seen but Frank and I paled up there and became became kind of buddies

and I had just seen his TV show Kingdom which if you've never seen everyone should go watch because it's amazing story about a family of UFC fighters and Frank is amazing in the show. He's just incredible. And so we wanted to work together since that time and have talked about it on and off. And as soon as I got this job, I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, I know what I'm going to do with you. And so, yeah, he shows up here. He shows up in Superman. He shows up in Peacemaker Season 2 in a big way.

So we know, obviously, an economist, we'll see in Peacemaker. or do we know without revealing, I assume you're not going to say it, but do you know any of these other characters and when they're going to pop up elsewhere in the DCU at this moment? I kind of be honest. I have a couple of ideas about some people, but basically right now it's Rick and Economos.

And yeah, basically right now for sure, those two. Got it. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, I referenced this in the intro. You've written some of these great misfit teams before. So you very much know, know kind of the rhythms and sort of the do's and don'ts, I would think, by now. How aware of that are you as you approach a different kind of a team dynamic here?

Well, yeah, I am aware of it, but also it's kind of like deconstructing my own sort of pattern, you know, I think that with with this one, you know, I think the main thing is just shaving away the sentimentality. And there's nothing wrong with sentimentality. I mean, it can make for really touching great stories. I mean, you know, Henry is sentimental. And it's great. But it's like in Guardians, we know that these misfits at their heart are all good characters.

We know that at the end of the day, they're going to be heroes. Even the deaths. So Yandu's death in volume 2 is poignant and teaches us all something. and is a great moment of sacrifice for the benefit of someone he loves in a way in which he is probably proud to die and he's acknowledged by his compatriots and the ravagers. It works together pretty well.

Right. That isn't the case with the creature commandos. There are deaths here that have nothing like that. They are just awful. And it's a different, just a different way of coming at it. And I don't think it's, it's just, you know, for whatever reason, it's a less hopeful show than I think the Guardians were movies. And it doesn't mean it doesn't have hope there. It's just not as over the top with it.

Did that reflect any of where you were in your own life and psyche at the time? Or was that just dictated by what these characters were and the kind of story there? I mean, honestly, I just think it's just honest. I mean, it's like, you know, you'll see Super Bowl. Superman is much different than this. Superman has a lot of hope in it. That's a part of me too. I think this is a different part of me.

That's I sometimes feel like the bride. I sometimes feel like Superman. I think they're different perspectives. And, you know, I think as storytellers and as artists, we all, you know, want to express different parts of ourselves and not get too caged into, you know, either something that's too Pollyanna or something that's too dark and dreary all the time.

Like, life is complicated and has all sorts of different emotions around it. So I want to express all of those things. Well, you bring up something that actually I was going to bring up later, which is like, yeah, so for about the last decade at least, you've almost exclusively been working on comic book properties, right? And I guess your answer, I guess this answer is my question, but like you're finding, safe to say, within that box, for lack of a better word, you're still able to kind of cover everything you want to cover in terms of the emotional spectrum, the genres, the variations in

genre. It's all there for you. Yeah, I mean, for now, sure. Yeah, I think that, but I don't think that there's any, like, that's one of the funny things about the DCU. It's like, we can tell any story we want to. We could tell the story about a, you know, radio psychologist if we wanted to. That person could still be in the DCU, you know? It's like, There is, you know, we can do anything with these characters. And, you know, part of the goal from the beginning was to be able to create, you know, to give the honor that the characters, the great characters deserve, the Wonder Woman's, Batman's and Superman's, but then also to prop up these lesser known characters like Heismaker and Booster Gold and, you know, the Huntress or whomever to be able to give them, you know, a little bit more. give them a platform as well. I'll just say I wasn't sure if we'd have time to mention booster gold.

I was obsessed with when booster gold came on the scene, that initial 25 comic book run is one of my favorites ever. So are we getting close? Because there's been, I'll just ask you point blank, there are a lot of rumors that Kumal could be your booster gold. Can you comment either way? I mean, we're not quite there yet in terms of booster gold. You know, we haven't made any,

you know, you know, we're not quite there yet. We're just not quite there. It's not in terms of, you know, the scripts aren't right where I want them to be, you know, from the beginning. You know, I've made it clear that the one thing that we're going to do at DC is no matter what, we're going to wait until the screenplays and the teleplays are ready before we shoot them. And I'm not going to shoot anything until I'm happy with it. I'm not a crazy person. I'm not sitting there micromanaging everything.

And I'm never happy with anything. I'm not one of those guys. But I have to feel it in my heart, you know, and that's happened. So it's happened with Supergirl. It's happened with lanterns. It's happened with another thing that was greenlit last week that I can't even talk about yet. And it's happened with, you know, some other things. So there's other things out there that we're, you know, we're moving.

But, you know, other things aren't quite there yet. booster gold is not quite there, Waller isn't quite there. Raven the Bold wasn't quite there. They're not quite where I want them to be yet. So when you took this job, let me give you a hypothetical. If Bob Eiger and Figey

had said to you a year before this job came up, hey, Kevin, Kevin says, I'm ready to exit. Would you want to take over Marvel? Would you have contemplated that? No. Why not? No. Would have I contemplated it? Of course.

Well, first of all, let me say something. I didn't take over D.C. I took over with Peter Saffron. No, I got you. Like, you know, it's like it was broached. D.C. was broached with me by someone before this. And it was broached with Peter before this. And I was like, no way. Like I said it, like, you know, it's one of the things that people think that I was lying about.

But people asked me if I would want to do Kevin Feige's job at D.C. I was like, I don't want to do that job. Like, that's not me. I can't do Peter's part of this. I could never do this without Peter. He does all of the CEO stuff. I am purely in charge of helping to tell these stories myself and to usher in other writers and artists to help them tell their stories.

It's a creative occupation. It's a creative CEO. There's nobody else that it's like. This certainly is not Kevin's job. Kevin is he is in charge of the Marvel universe. and there's a big creative component to it, but there's a lot of other stuff too. Well, I'm no good at that other stuff.

I don't want to do that other stuff. That's Peter, fortunately, it takes that for me. You know? I got you. We tried each other. So it's like, no. If we were asked to do that for Marvel, would we have done it?

I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know. But I know I've always been more interested in telling the stories of the DC characters. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a comic book writer. I equally love DC and Marvel comic books, but for some reason, the DC characters were the ones that I dealt with the most.

I would make up my own heroes, and then I'd have them team up with Batman or whomever, meddlemen, you know? And that was kind of what interested me. And it's funny, because that's my job now. I'm with you. And there were a number of years where it wasn't cool to say you were a DC kid versus a Marvel kid. And I was a DC kid. James, I'll say, I love Marvel. I was both. I was always both. And I remember going to high school. And like in my,

in my grade school, nobody read comic books. So it was kind of a secret thing that I did that was almost shameful. And then I went to high school and I met other kids that read comic books. Like, this is awesome. And we shared comic books. There was one DC guy and another Marvel guy. And the Marvel guy thought he was better than the DC guy. And they would get in fights all the time. And I'm like, can't we just love one another? What's wrong with what's wrong with liking both? Are there any, okay, so you mentioned, which I think is the most important kind of mandate you had, which is like, get the damn scripts right before we make anything, which is like, it sounds like such a no-brainer, but it's like, God bless you for making sure you do that. Are there any other creative kind of mandates or things that you're saying to the filmmakers you're working with? Like, I don't want to see post-credit sequences.

I don't want this. I want that. Like, are there any kind of rules of thumb you're giving your creative team? I'm sure that they would tell me there are things like that I am very weird I am very weird about my superhero movies and that I have to understand practically what's going on like if something happens that is internally inconsistent it drives me fucking crazy

so it's like I think that that is a very big pain in the ass when you're making a movie say about Supergirl in outer space. So I think that's correct. James, the physics isn't going to work. I'm just going to tell you that right up top. Gregana could kill me because everything has, it all has to fit in, you know, together. And, you know, her powers have to be the same as his powers and blah, blah, blah. So that kind of stuff.

I'm a maniac about. And also things making sense just in terms of, you know, connecting to each other and not not overtly. But also, there's some things you've got to be kind of loose about,

you know. Yeah, you know, there's lots of product names and peacemaker. That's part, lots of, you know, he's mentioning celebrities all the time. You know,

Superman's a different sort of world. There aren't really, like it's not about real people. in a real world. It's about this mythical DC universe. So it's different. Those are two stories created by the same person in the same universe. And even those are different in terms of the vibrations they're giving off. And someone could say that's internally inconsistent. But I'm not against, I always loved in the comic books that artists had their own ways of representing, say, metropolis. So I'm going to come in with metropolis. If somebody else, you know, creates

Metropolis in the future, they might have a slightly different way of looking at Metropolis, and I'm cool with that. I don't want everything to look the same all the time. I think the audience is smart enough. They can say, oh, yeah, this is all connected, but also, come on. And, you know, I think that too often people get a little bit too strict about Canon and freaked out. I mean, you know, I dealt with it with Marvel. I mean, it was like, you know, they showed the, you know, the infinity gauntlet, early, like in a, in Thor or something, you saw it. Right. Like, oh, no, that was a simile.

They retrofitted it, you know. But because, you know, they retrofitted those other things to be Infinity Stones because that was never written until Guardians. Right. So it's like, you know, I'm used to that stuff. I think that it's okay. You've got to be a little bit loose with it. It's the internal logic within the film.

because in the end, you're making films. Like, you're not making, you're making an experience for an audience. And that individual experience should work on its own terms. Yes, yes. And I think that, and I do think that these are interconnected stories, but this is, people are always going to be, who's the big bad? Who's the big bad? Right. Right.

And for their big bads for, you know, connected films, yes. Yeah. But is this all about, hey, I'm telling this one story about this big bad? No. This is about a connected universe. We're world building. We're not story building. We're not writing one story that has a beginning, middle, and end.

We're creating a universe in which people can go and join into this universe and experience it. And it is much more like Star Wars than Marvel in that respect. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you as a spot trackside. So being a fan for life, turn it. into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race.

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and the relentless media storm that followed. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. All right, I'm going to ask you a bunch of things. A lot of these things you're going to bat away. You're a professional. I'm just going to ask you a few things. You tell me when I've overstepped,

but here I go. First, just on the Superman front, which obviously you're heavily in the edit right now. Yeah. What was left on explored that you've been excited to explore in your Superman because we've seen

some great Superman films and TV over the years. What are you excited by that you've been able to really dive into that we've never seen before in your Superman? What are we excited by

that exists in my Superman movie? That's it, that you've been exploring in your Superman movie, you feel like that was never done justice elsewhere in Superman. I don't think we've ever seen the big science fiction Silver Age Superman aspects

that we have in our movie. And we've never seen, you know, You know, we've never seen this, you know, you'll, you'll see when it comes out. We've never seen this specific part of Superman's life. Okay. I spoke, Nick Holt just did the podcast the other day. So we talked a bunch about, of course, Superman and the casting experience. You know, he's never, I don't think we've ever seen the Lex like that, you know, that Nick is.

Nick is, he's imposing. You know, you go, oh. fuck poor Superman that's the thing that I we never see don't and not in film sometimes in the comics you go oh Superman's fuck because Lex is so smart and so good at what he's doing right but in the movies you're going Lex is about to get fucked you know um I mean not to mention there's the physical component too you've got this you've got a physical Lex here you got a six so poor guy yeah yeah yeah well we've got a big old Superman and a pretty well pretty tall Lex too so but yeah they they don't yeah it's just you you

see now where Lex is he's not the person you want to have against you did you have because Nick told me that kind of when he went into audition he had a sneaky suspicion he was better for Lex did you did you have that same inkling when yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um I'm very excited about lanterns for a number of reasons. I mean, again, we've never really seen, I mean, look, with all due respect, like, I don't think anyone's going to argue. We've never seen a great green lantern live action story.

Nobody's getting shocked by that statement, Josh. I'm just trying to be nice. I don't want Ryan Reynolds to come after me. But when you say grounded... One of the first people I talked to after I got the job was Ryan Reynolds. I'm like, you coming back. He's like, get the fuck out of here.

That's the thing that people are going to get pickup. Was that a joke? I was joking. I was joking. I wasn't really telling him to come back. When you say grounded, how grounded, like, are we going to see superhero, like, costumes? Are we going to, or, like, are we stripping it down even further? Well, I don't want to give away all that stuff. But it's, I think grounded just like, you know, if green lanterns were real, what the

fuck would they be and how would they be, you know? I was thinking about it the other morning because I kept being like, you know, know, because the story, the thing that keeps getting out is it's a terrestrial story, you know? Right. And I'm like, yeah, because it's on Earth. The story takes place on Earth. Everybody's like, we don't want to see their outer space. They fly with rings.

We don't want to see a, you know. And I'm like, yeah, they're on Earth for the story, like most Green Lantern stories. It's terrestrial bound. It's not an outer space, you know. We don't have a thousand green lanterns, you know, all that stuff. And it's like, you know, it's a grounded story that's being told through a, another lens in a way that's really commensurate. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

with that with that, and I love the scripts. Speaking of big congrats, I mean, you can't, you can't, you can't be happier than the reception for the penguin. I mean, like, it's, it's, it's been remarkable. People are just over the moon. I mean, it's been, so far, DC Studios has done okay, because we had the, you know, the, the, you know, Chris, you know, Superman movie come out, which just swept at the critics choice awards, you know, penguin, and those are the, you know, and those are first two things we were involved with at all and first two DC Studios releases. So, yeah, it's just pretty exciting. I mean, there's a lot. I mean, I think maybe the biggest question

I've seen out there is like, because, you know, you've been very adamant Matt Reeves, Batman universe is Matt Reeves, Batman. And he's such a singular filmmaker, let him do his thing. Have you contemplated? Have you had the conversation? Have you reconsidered integrating Pattinson's Batman into your DCU? I've contemplated it. Yeah. I've contemplated everything, John. We can't talk about everything.

Like, it just means like, and see, like, you can't, these questions you can't answer because people are to, you know. Right. Yeah, you'll be an idiot not to have that. They take everything to mean. It's an idiot not to think. What's this going to, you know, how does this go? How does this go, you know?

But I'm committed to both telling stories in the DCU and telling elseworld's story. I want the freedom to tell elseworld stories. We want to be able to, you know, tell a story in which, you know, you know, Superman's very different or, you know, tell a, you know, Red Sun story or whatever, you know. It's like we want to be able to, you know, play with these characters in different ways and they're different. One of the things I love about DC over Marvel comic books is that those things are much more plentiful. There's many more elseworld stories. There's many more presentations of Wonder Woman and Batman and Superman,

especially that you see them showing up in different ways in different elseworld stories. I think that's part of the fun of D.C. You know, you get Watchman. Like, Watchman, that's, watchman is a result of D.C. telling a story that's outside of the continuity of, of, of, of D.C. comics.

Would you go back and do anything more with Watchmen? I don't know. You know, I really like, you know, I really respect Alan Moore, I will say. You know, I really respect him. And so, yeah, but that's it. I did love the TV show. TV show is pretty great. Yeah.

What is the, can you talk a little bit just broadly speaking, cadence-wise? Like, do you have like a number in your head of like how many projects feels right per year TV and film? in the next few years that you want to hit i do but it's it's going to be there's something that is you know right but it also depends on what where we're releasing stuff and it also depends on what the genre is you know um it depends on is it within the dc u is it an else world's tale and it and mostly it depends on what's the good material that i have is it worth spending and toiling and you know doing everything else

you know it's got to be really good and if it's if it's not good then i'm not doing it do you know what the next project you'll want to direct is have you already thought about no i don't i really don't you know and i'm you know playing with a few ideas i'm going to play you know once we're i'm done shooting a peacemaker in a week in change and when i'm done with that then i'll start to play around especially at the beginning of the year with what i'm i'm writing next you know um yeah Okay, I'll stop pestering you with the DC questions. It's one of four things, frankly. Oh, wow.

Okay, okay. I'm going to stop pestering you with the DC questions. I know it's hard to talk about this stuff too prematurely. How about just as a fan of like what you're seeing? Because you talked about this before. We can love our Marvel and our DC. And I love that about you and Kevin, your mutual admiration society. Did you, were you excited when you heard or shocked when you heard about Downey coming back as Dr. Doom and their next phase and what they're leading to?

What was your perspective on it? I thought it was a smart move. I was excited about it. And I also love Roberts. So I think that's cool. I think it's, I think it's a, I think it's a great, it's a great idea. And I think that, you know, there's nobody better than him. If and when they do more with Guardians, do they have to kind of like keep you plugged in?

Like, are you potentially a producer on a Guardians film when you're still in D. going forward? I don't know the exact legal answer to that. I think the answer is actually yes. But I'm not sure what the answer is. But listen, I'm excited for them to go do whatever they want to with Guardians. I would love them to take those characters and see more stories with them. Chris has my blessing.

Everybody, they all have my blessing. Like, you know, Chris keeps saying, is this okay? Is this okay? I'm like, dude, whatever, like, I am totally okay with whatever you do. You know, you go do it. I mean, he's one of my very close friends, and I would love to see him be Star Lord again. Was there anything you ever didn't get to explore in the Guardian's realm? I know you talked, the Ravager's show was something we talked about for a bit.

Was there one that got away that you would have liked to have explored? Oh, there's so many. I mean, yeah, the Ravager, the Ravager's show I thought was going to, it could be a fun thing. legendary star lord really frankly i had we had a whole idea for that um and then uh you know rocketing rockin and grute to be honest rocket and grude is what guardians three was so um you know i wanted to do rockin and grute first and then i was talking to doing guardians three instead of rocking and grut and uh and so uh that's that's kind of you know because i knew i needed to tell rocket's story right right right um you you've

You've said before that other Guardians actors are going to pop up inevitably on the DC side of things. Have you cast people we don't know about yet in the DCU? Yes. Have we cast guardians people in the DCU we don't know about yet? Like actual signed contracts cast? No, I don't even. I don't need real talks. Real talks, yeah, yes.

there's been rumor of Bain and Deathstroke. Could Bautista be your Bain eventually, or is that off the table? I don't know if Dave wants to be Bain anymore. He used to want to be Bain, but I think he's... Now he's slimed down. He's too thin to be Bain. I think that is. I think that's true.

I think Dave would much rather be another character than Bain right now. I think that's probably the case. So I, of course, love Dave and want to work with Dave again. I'm not sure he wants to be Bain. Bain anymore. Death stroke and Bain, though, might be something that's in the ether, that's somewhere out there. Oh, we lost the connection.

Weird. Okay, let's end with this, James. Yeah, what happened? I admit lost that last. It's so convenient, strange. Okay. I'm going to let you go on this. The happy, say, I can use profoundly random questions for you, Mr. James Gunn.

No DC spoilers. You're okay again. I know the answer to the first word. You can, yeah, exhale. dogs or cats we know this dogs but I've got a cat who I love and who loves me more than anybody so I love cats too

I love them but dogs are my favorite animal yeah I'm only so my beloved Lucy I have a pit mix who usually is here she's out on a walk right now one day you'll have to meet her she's the love of my life what do you collect James uh

Jen do I collect anything I don't think I Oh, bad habit. The gar, she says. Okay. It could be worse. It's fine. You're fine.

Everyone needs advice. It's okay. What's the wallpaper on your phone? I don't drink. Don't do drugs. Right. We'll take it. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

You know, I'll tell you this. It's my, it's my dog that passed away. And I've had him up there forever and I can't bear to take them down. I get it. that's Wesley up there. I can't take him down. And then I think the inside is my cat. Yeah, the inside is my cat.

That's been that forever. And I'll never be able to take that down. She's 13, but she's doing okay. Are you ever mistaken for anyone, whether it's another filmmaker or actor? I mean, you're. Well, I was at the Superman premiere, the Super Slash Man premiere.

Yeah. And somebody came up to me and said, somebody said Are you Zach Snyder? I said, I was like, no. And she's like, she's like, you're not? And I'm like, no. You know, I don't, I'm not.

Sorry. I don't know what to say. And then next day, and I feel so sorry because the girl that did this will probably hear this. She wrote me. She just, she's like, I'm so sorry. I had a brain fart or whatever.

I just didn't. I lost. I got too nervous and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I called you Zach Snyder. I'm like it's compliment. He's a good looking guy. I was good.

That guy's jacked. You should take that any day of the week. That means in the gym four hours a day, I think. Yeah. In the spirit of happy, second fuse, who's an actor that always makes you happy. You see them on screen.

Steve Bouchemi. Oh. Yeah. Have you ever worked with Steve? Am I missing something? No. No, no, no, no. What's up?

Ever offer him something? You've offered him something. You've tried. No, never have offered him anything. Yeah. No, I haven't. I just love him. I just love watching him.

Steve Bouchemmy, as Plastic Man, coming soon. People who I've worked with, it's Kevin Bacon. Like, he's just the greatest guy in the world. And also, I love seeing him drop up in anything. And I know he's getting my six degrees better. So it's like I'm always happy with the hustle. A movie that makes you sad. I mean,

Sophie's choice is sad. I mean, it's acceptable. It would be wrong if it didn't. Yeah. Okay, we'll take it. And finally, a food that makes you. That was just what came to my mind. I mean, I'm like, you're asking for a sad movie.

It's so, well, the kids just use. It's hard. Yeah, that's not a good situation. Let's be real. And finally, a food that makes you confused. A food that makes me confused. You don't get it. What's up with that?

Why do people eat that? Any type of melon. Okay. We will not buy crafty on a set. Okay, fair enough. Not a fan of melon. No type of melon do I like? Nope.

What? Oh, root beer's the grossest thing. Oh, oh, root beer's the grossest food that's ever existed. Like, I don't like melon, but like if I was about to get married and somebody's mother served me melon, I would sit and eat the whole plate of melon. If somebody served me at root beer, I would, I would vomit. I find, I find root beer to be the grossest food that could ever exist. A little, ice cream, a little vanilla scoop.

If petroleum didn't kill me, I would rather drink petroleum. I'm not for like I mean I'm not even being facetious in any way I really know I I sense the yeah this is the most most heartfelt answer of the entire conversation because if you look up if you look up because I'm Irish right so it's like if you look up Irish people drinking root beer on online you find a lot of videos of Irish people trying root beer for the first time in being horrified that is an internet rabbit hole I've never gone down but I'm about to after our conversation. Thank you for that.

Yeah, go, go watch. You'll watch and then you'll see they react. And that's what I react like when I drink root beer. One time I had a dessert just a few years ago. Somebody poured, it was like a root beer soaked thing. And it was so like I took a bite of it and I was so, so angry. We learned almost nothing about the future of D.C. But we've learned that Irish people hate root beer.

I gave you something. You gave me more than enough. I appreciate you. You know, I hate to. people on the spot. No new roof here in the DCU. Spoiler. That's my exclusive. Okay, we got it. The better world. Most importantly, if you remember the beginning of our conversation, Creature Commandos, guys, I legitimately love this one. This is pure James Gunn at its best. December 5th, I think that's the day this is dropping. The first two episodes are out. The entire series is fantastic. Check it out on Max

and lots more exciting stuff to come from Mr. James Gunn and DCU. Thanks, buddy, as always. I appreciate you. It's a good thing. I appreciate you too, man. You're always fun. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors, to dark corners, for the disaster of the Donner Party

and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad will go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music

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