Happy Sad Confused - Jamie Campbell Bower

Episode Date: September 2, 2022

From SWEENEY TODD to the TWILIGHT and HARRY POTTER films, and now STRANGER THINGS, Jamie Campbell Bower is no stranger to pop culture phenomenons. But it's the tough journey to get here that makes where he is today all the more satisfying. Josh and Jamie catch up on all the great things he's up to (including music of course) and reflect on his path to sobriety. Come see Josh tape LIVE Happy Sad Confused conversations in New York City! September 29th with Mila Kunis! Tickets are available here! October 25th with Ralph Macchio! Tickets are available here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day.

And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, Get it and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Say, Confused, Jamie Campbell Bauer on his music, on Stranger Things, on Twilight, Harry Potter, and more. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Said, Confused. I don't know if you guys are regular subscribers of the podcast. You probably are if you're listening to this.

But I hope you're not bombarded by all these episodes. We've had a lot going on. This is our second episode of this week. I think we had two last week. We might keep up this pace for a while. It's been just a good time for folks to chat with, people that I've dined to chat with, and when it rains, it pours. So today's episode is indeed Jamie Campbell-Bow or someone, another young man who I've had a long history with. And it's,

like I've said before, it's so great to meet these folks at different stages of their career. Jamie is in such a great place right now. I'm so happy for him. He's having a hell of a year, a hell of a summer. He is, of course, spoiler alert for Stranger Things fans who have not caught up. Spoiler alert. He's the Big Bad. He is Vecna. He is Henry Creel. He has won a great performance in the new season of Stranger Things. And better yet, he's going to be on the last season, too, as the Big Bad. We're going to talk all about that. We talk all about his new music, which is not new to him. He's been making music his entire career, but something he's always been passionate about and something that continues to be creative fulfilling for him. And certainly the fans are there for it, too. He has intentions and aspirations. to tour with it. We get into that. And we also dive into all things, you know, all phases of his career. He was, of course, in the Twilight films. He revealed to me in this conversation that he was, in fact, yes, up for Edward at first in Twilight. We also talk about his role in the Harry Potter films, and this I did not know, and I don't know if this is public knowledge. He auditioned to

play Harry Potter as well. He has a great story about that. So it's a great chat. And we're not even getting into the the really interesting substantive stuff, which is that Jamie was was really open and honest and talking as he has been in the past about his, his sobriety. He's been sober. I think he's been sober. He says for seven plus years. And his words in this conversation, I know will be meaningful to many people talking about the issues he's faced and how he's navigated them and how he's come out the other side. Just a good guy. And, And like I said, it's just great to meet folks at different stages and to see him now in a good place, career and personally makes me happy. So this was a conversation we recorded live for the Patreon audience.

As you may or may not know, we've been doing a few of these live episodes. So we did one with Graham McTabash. We did this with Jamie. And basically what that means is what you'll hear is the normal podcast conversation. you'll just hear references to the live audience, which, of course, you can't participate in. I'm sorry if you listen to this podcast, unless you have the power to turn back time. And what a strange use of your power to turn back time to be in a live Patreon, happy, set, confused episode. But that's on you.

So you'll hear references to the live audience and to some of their questions there. If you want to get in on these live chats, you know the answer. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused, will continue to do more of them. them. We're also putting up this conversation, as we do now with all conversations on the YouTube page. Go over to YouTube.com slash Josh Horowitz. So much content there, guys. John Boyega last week, Neil Gaiman, Natalie Emanuel, and all the old archive stuff. Go to YouTube.com slash Josh Harowitz, subscribe, and you'll be the first one to see all the new stuff unless you're on the Patreon when you get the early access. All right. Enough.

Enough of that, silliness. I do want to mention live events because there's a lot coming up. We've already mentioned in late October, October 25th, I'll be talking to Ralph Machio about his new memoir and Cobra Kai and Karate Kid and everything at Symphony Space, October 25th in the evening. I'll be chatting with him. The link to that is in the show notes. On September, when we get this right, September 29th, I'll be talking to Milakunis,

I believe her new film is the luckiest girl in the world. We're going to screen that film. I'm going to do a live, happy, say I confused chat with her. I'm very excited for that. She's never done the podcast, but I've always enjoyed chatting with her. That's at 92nd Street. Why? Again, evening of September 29th.

What else can I say? I think by the time you listen to this, I think by the time you listen to this, I can say this, New York Comic-Con, October 9th. I think it's 4 p.m. I'll be moderating. the panel for Weird. Yes, Weird is the Weird Al biopic. I'm so excited for this.

I'm going to see it very soon. Daniel Radcliffe, Evan Rachel Wood, Weird Al, will make an appearance, I think, virtually, but that'll work for me. Can't wait for that. October 9th, if you're in New York at New York Comic-Con, come on by, 4 p.m. is the big panel for Weird. I'll be moderating that.

So, yeah, lots of opportunities to see me up close and personal in person. Come on out if you can, buy tickets to the events, And again, as I said, as always, on the Patreon, you get discount code. So check that out. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. I think that's all the business at hand. Let's get right to this once upon a time live event with the ever-charming, the very talented Mr. Jamie Campbell Fowler. Enjoy.

We've made it, Jamie. Are you still there? I'm here This is the biggest exhale of the entire conversation Going live That moment before you go live I just

Usually I rely on a camera crew People that know better than me But when I have to hit the Go Live button Jamie It's just I feel like I need to run to the bathroom I'm sweating It's horrible

There's no redos There's no redos We're here It's present We're in the moment This is 20 22 encapsulated, just two dudes talking into their computers, trying to make a connection. Screaming into the internet, into the void. Help us.

An official welcome to the audience watching live and a welcome to folks that are watching us in 75 years after we're dead and buried. Hopefully you enjoy this conversation. This was 22. This was Jamie Campbell Bauer and Josh Horowitz. This is what we did back then. Most importantly, thank you to the audience joining us live. We're going to take your questions from Mr. Jamie Campbell-Bauer. You might see a little button that says ask a question. That's where you do it, guys. Just write in your question there.

And if you want to be on camera, if I get my shit together and actually figure out a way to do it, just write in the question, yes, I'm cool with being on camera. Maybe I'll make a stab at it and hopefully our computers won't explode. But the man of the hour, let's get right into it. Jamie, it's so good to see you. Congratulations. You've had a good summer man, the music, stranger things. It's a good time to be Jamie Campbell Bauer. Just tell me how you're doing. What's the summer been like for you, man? It's been great. It started sort of chaotically with the release of the show. You know, for me, I hadn't been able to talk about it for what. two and a half years. So when I was finally able to divulge all this information, there was this sort of verbal diarrhea that just sort of spewed forwards. Very exciting. You know, an incredible project to talk about, an incredible show to be a part of. And then, you know, I've been working

for 15 years now. So I know when things kind of get crazy and what I need to do to remain human and myself and not kind of get, you know, too wrapped up in it and try and remain grounded. So there was a sort of two-week period where I was like, oh, like the mind was just everywhere. It was living in the clouds. And then I was like, wow, I need to reground, regroup, meditate, stay focused, stay centered, you know. So we're doing all of that. There's been a lot of great travel. I've met some amazing people.

It's been, it's been just, it's been beautiful. It's been a real blessing. It's been, you know, not without its ups and downs, but that's life. That's life. It's never. Well, you bring up something that I wanted to kind of talk about because I remember talking to you way back when in the Mortal Instruments era, and kind of like the first round of like

Jamie Campbell-Bowr has arrived moment a couple years after Sweeney Todd and it was an exciting time and you're at such a different place, I know, in your life and career and personally. And you just alluded to this, like there must be a weird kind of sense of deja vu. You're not 22.

You're a man that's kind of been through it. And like, just talk to me a little bit about, you know, this next, this new opportunity, or this like kind of second chance at, you know, quote-unquote mainstream success. Do you feel like you're going into this with a much different attitude given all that you've been through career-wise and personal lives? Absolutely. I mean, for me, you know, in my early 20s and my mid-20s,

and even my late 20s once, you know, once I'd gotten sober, I was still figuring myself out. there were still parts of me that I had yet to get to grips with and now you know at 33 I'm much more able to understand myself and my career and the importance of creating beautiful art and that it's very little to do with me at the end of the day you know I think when any young person encounters a level of interest in them it's always a very jarring and and strange experience and now I look at life like and I look at the world you know it's like we're all at school together we're here and actors or creative people are putting on show like my agent said this the other day he was like darling we're just putting on shows in the barn and we're hoping that people come to see the show and if it resonates with them then fantastic and if it doesn't

then we try again and we do better and we figure out why um so that that for me is like a huge part internally now and and i think i'm just a lot more i'm a lot happier i'm i'm just a lot happier now i'm really really really am and i'm able to deal with life on life's terms now and and know that You know, like I just said, you know, the trajectory of anyone's career or life is never this sort of like continual upward graph. It goes up and it goes down. And it's about how you deal with each of those things and how I maintain myself in those moments of the peaks and in those moments of the trough. You know, it's if I can try and remain at peace at all times when the external forces, doing whatever they're going to do, then I'm able to handle it and I'm able to manage it.

You know, I have no control over anything other than me. And that's great. And what people, I think, from the outside looking and don't often realize is there's the professional stuff and the ups and downs, as you said that, is often totally out of your control. Even if you make a great film or TV show, the marketing might not be there. It might just not hit in the right way. and it's like also meanwhile like a loved one could be dying you could be going through a breakup things could be great it's like these are these are totally different tracks and only with wisdom and age and having been through it a few times can you kind of rationalize that because like when yeah when you're 22 it's all connected and you're just you probably just like feel like

what's never going to end it's going to get better this is how it is I mean you of course and I do want to, if you'll indulge me, go back a little bit, like Sweeney Todd, I know we're going way back, but that was your first film. And it just boggles my mind when I think about that, because Tim Burton, Johnny Depp, Helen of Bonham Carter, Sondheim, a musical, Pinewood Studios. Like, everything about it was like, it kind of doesn't get better than that. Just, can you take me back to that? Like, what was the intimidating part of that? What was the exciting part of that? What jumps out when, when you think back to those times? All of it was intimidating and all of it was exciting.

I mean, I got that job. I found out that I booked a job the week of my 18th birthday. So I had a party at my house. My parents put on this beautiful, you know, sort of lunch. And we hired in these, like, you know, ratchet old, like farm tables. And all my friends came. And I was still living, I was at boarding school. So I was still living at school.

So it was being picked up in the morning at like 5 a.m. to go to Pinewoods and then back at like 9 p.m. And it was a very surreal experience. But an experience that at that time felt very natural in a strange way. You know, I, I'm sure you'll ask me, but like, I started life, you know, like on stage from quite a young age, doing musical theatre predominantly. So to kind of step into doing something that was still musical theatre felt very kind of normal for me in a strange way. However, obviously, it's timber and, you know, it's like you're at Pinewood. It's not normal at all. The most intimidating experience I think I had throughout that whole process, however, was I remember we were tracking the orchestra parts at Air Studios in North London. And there was like a 72 piece orchestra.

and Stephen Sondheim was there, Tim was there, Johnny was there, Helena was there, Laura Michelle Kelly was there, and I remember stepping into the booth to live track my vocal as Anthony Hope in front of all these legends and these icons in front of the huge orchestra in this recording studio that has so much history. And Laura Michelle Kelly noticed that I was released. nervous and she was like what I like to do is I like to pretend that I'm holding a chair above my head it helps me to breathe deeper so I went in there and tried that and it I just failed I couldn't do it I was and so I ended up having to

retract my vocal at a smaller studio in Chiswick in West London with I believe his name was Mike who was doing our who was doing our sound and just feeling a lot more like relaxed and and at peace um but that whole experience was was very i remember it was such fondness and it was a very beautiful and you know what a what a blessing like what a blessing to do that for your first job like that that is that really is like you say you know it's it's it's it's for some people it's the peak it's everything and and and i'm so grateful that i was able to be a part of that um but it was amazing and and i've been so fortunate that you know 99.9% of everyone i've ever worked with has been so gracious and i've

learned on the job not only how to do my job but also how to be in my job how to be in my job how And that comes from the older performers that I'm working with who have done this for time. You know, people like Ian McKellen, you are so gracious with every single person that they meet and so much fun and so brilliant at what they do. And I've been so fortunate because I've been able to witness that, pick up on it and go, God, that's just, you're so lovely and kind to everyone. And this is how it should be, you know. This is how we should work together. And Sweeney was no exception to that. You're working with Tim Burton, an incredible Artur, you know,

who spends so much time in his head and has a great support around him. And you're just watching this genius at work. It's like fucking fascinating. It's so funny. So a lot of people lately have been talking about this like supposed to like Twilight resurgence. For me, Twilight never went away. Twilight was the beginning of my career at MTV. I had a great deja vu moment recently when Ashley Green.

Ashley Green's been doing a podcast, like looking back at Twilight, and I came on and I talked a little bit about my experience just on the periphery of it. And you had a kind of a cool vantage point on it. Like you were in it, but you didn't, like, you weren't like the siege like everybody else. You kind of like dip in and out of it. Is it true, first of all, like that you, were you up for Edward? Did you do the audition for Edward for Catherine Hardwick? Is that a true story?

That is a true story. And I have an email from, I think it's from Wick Godfrey at Summit that I think I looked at this like a year ago or two years ago because I remember Catherine had a house down in Santa Monica and I remember I was like driving, I thought I was driving past the house. I was like, holy shit. I remember all of this going on now. So I like pulled up the, I was like twilight, got to find this email and they were really interested in me reading for Edward. And they were like, you know, the sort of like the dedication that Jamie brings to his roles, you know, we're really interested in seeing him and all of this and all of that. And it just, it didn't work out at the time because it was around the same time that I think Sweeney was being released is when they were interested in seeing me. And I think life was just so crazy and hectic.

It was one of those things that just never came to fruition. And yet, you know, cut to movie two and they're like, hey, want to come and play a bad guy? It's like, yeah, I'd love to. But also, I, like, was not great in that audition either. I remember. Were you with Kristen? Did you play opposite her? No, no.

So I never screen tested or never auditioned for Edward. Like, it was more of just like a conversation where they were like, we really want Jamie to come along. We'd love him to be a part of this. We see him as a potential Edward. And it just, like, it didn't work out. But then when I went back to read for Caius, I remember like I was still so young I was like 19 and I forgot the lines and I said I was

really sorry in the audition and I remember my agent at the time called me and they and afterwards they were like the audition was fine just never say sorry in an audition ever again project absolute confidence you nailed it never don't apologize yeah yeah which I which is not a note I've ever taken with me by the way so you know I still say sorry if I get things wrong because accountability right so um yeah like it was that was a that was a crazy time too yeah wild was was potter always were you up for other potter roles or was it always grindalwald uh back then i i was up for harry i i i yeah so they came to my school uh to look for uh potential potters or potential kind of

members and pulled me out of a bunch of people. And so I went to go to the audition. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the first potter, Chris? Didn't Chris do the first potter? Chris did the first two. That's right. Yeah, of course.

So going again, you know, so I went to go back to Twilight, you know, seeing Chris again. So I went to go and meet Chris when I was, 14, I guess. Oh, you're talking about Chris, Chris White's. No, Chris White's didn't do Potter. Chris Columbus did Potter. Columbus, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, of course, Chris Columbus, that's right. Sorry, confusion there. So I went to go and meet Chris Columbus in London for the first Harry Potter, and they'd asked us to prepare a joke. And I had just heard this joke about a fairy, like, the reason why the fairy sits on top of the Christmas. Christmas tree and it's a really like dirty joke because it's a Christmas tree up somebody's bottom and I told this joke in the in the audition and there was again this sort of just like air of just like silence after I said it and I was like well fuck

that up um so yeah that that was something that like I was asked to be a part of and And then, you know, I had friends in that sphere, in the Potter universe, and I work with Simon Beresford, who represents me in London, who I've worked with since Sweeney, who got me Sweeney, also represents Ray Fines. So when they were sort of looking for somebody to come in and potentially play a young Grindle Ward, you know, they were asking the people that they knew. And Simon said, well, Jamie's now, you know, properly working. is not telling too many rude jokes anymore.

Yeah, that was a phase when he was 11 years old. He was telling really nasty, dirty jokes, but he's grown out of it. Yeah, being a little turd. And so they were like, yeah, of course, like, let's get him in. And so I was very fortunate in that sense where it was like, let's do this. Let's, you know, let's play this role. Amazing. Before we jump forward to both the music and Stranger.

things. I do want to mention because you've been so honest and I know it's helped a lot of people and obviously only talk about as much as you're comfortable, but you know, you've talked about sobriety and you tweeted about it. And I know that must mean so much to so many young people because, you know, as you well know, mental health is not talked about, especially for young men, like talked openly about like these kind of struggles. And I'm just curious, like looking back, like, do you tie any of what you've been through in with the work, with the industry, with the pressures that you felt, was this all just going to happen anyway?

This is just like genetic and, you know, predispositions and the stuff that you were going to go through. I mean, looking back, you must have had time to sort this out and think this through about sort of the genesis of what you've gone through. Look, I, for me, I growing up was a very anxious child, probably one of the reasons why I told a lot of dirty jokes,

probably the reason why I sought attention in some way as well. It was this feeling of not being able to fully comprehend, come to terms with the deep emotions that I had within me. I always found that quite scary growing up. I also suffered with what we call a spiritual malady. I had this big hole in my body and in my sort of being that. I just didn't know how to kind of fill. And when I discovered alcohol, it was like all of this fear goes away. It just, it just disappears.

And you marry that with an inability to, you know, know, know the fact that I don't have an off switch. It's a catalyst for, like, for total disaster. Also, you know, for me, there was this feeling of like wanting almost to kind of, I think because I wasn't able to, to, like I was saying, to fully grasp who I was. There was also this feeling of wanting to self-destruct in some way. And so my addiction was a very isolating and lonely place for me. It wasn't. It's a. you know, it's not like it really is made out to be in, you know, the movies with rock stars where it's like you're touring the world, taking a load of drugs. The reality is, is that often, you know, you're spending a large amount of time on your own and wanting to be on your own with your chosen substance. Right.

And that, that, you know, also creates a really deep level of depression. And so the whole cycle is incredibly cyclical. Just one thing feeds into another. And I would never, ever say that it was any fault of any career that I had chosen. I could have been a chartered accountant and done the same thing. You know, I think it was just who I am. And it's funny, I don't think my mom would mind me talking about this. Like, my mom always saw it in me.

She was like, you need to stay away. from certain things and i was like ah don't be silly like i'm a kid like i'll do what i want to do but she was right you know and and i needed to experience that for myself but one of the things that came up for me as i was as i was preparing for for stranger things like i've always been very open and vocal about my mental and my friends with mental health and and with addiction but one of the things that came up for me particularly whilst I was prepping for the show was if I can stand up anywhere and talk about my experience and it just inspires one person who's feeling the same way then I then that's it I'm good like I feel like I've done I feel like I've done

as much as I as much as I can do sort of publicly privately I will always help people but publicly I'll be like that this is me this is the experience that I went through. I made a decision with the help of many others and something that guides me. And it's put me in a position now that I never dreamt was possible ever. Like, you know, talk to me when I was 25, 24.

I didn't think I'd make it to 27. You know, I really, really didn't. And so that journey to be able to share that with people across the board, Grace said something beautiful. Bracey plays Chrissy in the show. You know, she's talking about her. This was over the weekend at this convention that we were at, and she was saying that, you know, addiction and struggle

does not pertain to one particular thing. It's not, I'm an, you know, I'm an alcoholic, and therefore that's it. You know, and only alcoholics can understand this and listen to this. It's like, you know, these are all your addictions can go anywhere and can go everywhere, and I know that my addictions have gone everywhere. You know, we can cross-edict into food, into exercise, often into work,

which is great because now I'm able to, like, really become obsessed with jobs, which I love. Well, it's a manifestation of other issues. It's not in and of itself the thing. It's connected to every other whole and wanting and problem that we're trying to ignore and push away. And it's not, you know, as you say, it's, it's all. connected. And honestly, you know this, but like every word you've just spoken, and I see it in the chat just now in the watch. Like, it means so much to people. And you should know that. Like, like sharing yourself so openly on that. Like, it does make a real difference. So I'm glad you're doing, you've been through this journey and come out the other side. And I know it's a day by day thing, but, but I'm glad today you're doing well now. Congratulations on that. Thank you. Thank you so much. So, so let's talk a little, let's talk about the music, because the music's great. You have, and I know this is, and I know this is, always been a passion. You talk about this from childhood, but you have the new single that you release, the video. I think the video is more haunting than anything Beckna does. Watching you and I am, that's the chilling stuff. This preacher guy, I don't want to fuck with him. That guy,

that guy scares me. What does music do for you that acting doesn't? Or is it filling the same well? Talk to me a little bit about what you get out of it. It does in some way fill the same well. It's interesting. Art for me is always about connecting to the deepest possible truth. And acting, as you know, from my side of things, is largely to do with the way it's written. If on the page there is this undeniable universal truth, the job is like it's a dream it's it's everything you're like oh you're talking to me i like you know we get the same feeling from watching something as we do from performing it right um you know and to go back to stranger things you know the way matt and ross right is just the whole show yes

okay whilst we're in this you know world of you know 11 having superpowers and brenner and you you know, Russia and all of this kind of crazy exterior. It's peppered with these beautiful moments of reality, and that comes from the writers. Same thing with music. It's like I'm always trying to tap into something that is really deep within me. Now, with acting, obviously,

you are saying someone else's words. Right. You're the conduit for someone else in a way. And this is direct communication. This is from your heart and soul, I would think. You would hope. That's the goal. That's the whole, yeah. So, you know, it does fill the creative need within me.

That being said, you know, it comes when it comes. It's not an easy journey, it's not an easy road. There are weeks where I will write things down or I will write songs and it's just absolute piffle. It's just awful and I have to keep plugging away at it to make sure that I'm really like cutting through to the heart of what I want to be talking about and who I am. But it's music is just always service this need and this desire, that acting is service too, which is to feel free.

It's this freedom that I get. When I am on stage, whether it be acting or doing music, and I'm doing something that means a lot to me or something that's resonating with me, I feel the most free I have ever felt in my life. And that feeling is a feeling that I will chase until the end of time. I don't know how free you feel when you get your eight hours of makeup to play full-on Vecna. I wouldn't think it is freeing. It's like they can't see me.

I can do anything. I am hidden and I have, it must feel like extraordinary to step on set. I mean, the story's already been told. Like when you stepped out in that full regalia, you reduced poor Millie Bobby Brown to tears. I mean, it was that, that's a credit to you and a credit to the makeup artists of what they're able to create in this environment. But I want to talk a little bit about. your interpretation because, man, it works on so many levels. I know you've talked about like finding the voice and that took a little trial and error.

What was the, what was the worst version of the voice? What was the one that like that, what was the, what was the one that you regret even toying with? Can you give me any sense of what it sounded like? Give me the shit, Vecna. I want shit Vecna. This shit Vecna, I think, I think the worst was probably at the readthrough, if I'm being honest, because I had never really done it in front of anyone before, so I was so nervous about it.

And shit, Bechner, shit Bechner, he sounds very constipated, you know, he's like this, you know, it's time, Chrissy, you know, he's like, he's holding it all in, it's just sort of like, oh, man, I can't believe I just did that. It was not good. It was not great. Yeah, that was, that was shit, Schickner, both, you know, metaphorically. and literally if we're talking about constipations. Yeah. Looking forward. I mean, the excitement of this is not only what you've accomplished in season four,

but you know, you're the big bad, like for the end game. Like, this is it. This is the guy. He's coming back in a big way. I know you probably know nothing. The actors never know anything until it's time to get on set. Is that true still? You're in the dark?

Yes. Oh, wait. Oh, you do know. Have you seen scripts? Have you seen anything? No. I haven't seen anything. I've seen nothing.

Wow, I jumped the gun. You know stuff. Jamie knows stuff. Who, who, okay, you've played opposite a lot of talented actors. Who are you excited to potentially play with that you haven't yet in the Stranger Things cast? I would love, I've mentioned this before. I would really love to, to see a journey between Beckner and Will. I do think that there is unfinished business there between the two of them.

I am a huge fan of the show, and I know that, you know, from sort of skulking around the internet, there are people who are suggesting that we may have seen Bechner in season one, you know, and I would love to kind of explore that relationship with Will. Purely, I think also because, like, visually when I watch the show, you know, like, when Will is, like, in bed and, you know, and Winona's having to, like, up the temperature like that's a lot like that's a lot that's it's very scary and and i love scary so i'd like to see more of scary sold all right i want to run through a bunch of questions we've gotten a ton of questions um we'll get through as many of these as possible in our remaining time

with jamie um here's one that i was not aware of until this person wrote this down and then i looked it up so sage hannah wants to know hey can you please ask janey bower to say stop it behave yourself I need this. So you must be aware of this. I did. Then I went to YouTube and sure enough, there are tens of thousands of views on compilations of you saying, stop it, behave yourself. Is this like a go-to, is this like your go-to phrase that I don't, that I was unaware of? I think it was. Being British, I'm very unable to sort of handle any form of praise and stop it, behave yourself with sort of a shutdown. It was like, no, don't do that. Let's move on. like that's making me feel funny um so i am aware of it yeah okay okay um jess wants to know if you were

made to choose between acting and music and could do only one for the rest of your life which would you choose it's a hard one i know death death death death can't do it um avocado says hi jamie with the massive success of your newest single i am and you currently residing in the u.s would you ever consider touring across the country yes i would love to um It's been something that I've spoken about with the great group of people that I work with. For me, I really want to, when I go out on tour, do shows in strange places or do shows in places that you wouldn't normally expect to see a touring artist to go to. So, you know, for instance, like, I took a bunch of crazy pictures out in this little town called Mayfield, Georgia, whilst we were working, and that was for the music. music. And I'd love to go to small towns like Mayfield, Georgia and play in some like old abandoned church building and just bring a rig with me. I also remember like watching documentaries of Bob Dylan and he would drive himself in the in this Winnebago, you know, across the country when he was touring. That for me is something that I would love to do. It's, you know, for me, it's about making.

the entire experience of living an artistic experience. So if I can drive myself, you know, across the country to go and play a show, I will. And that's what I want to do. So yes, that, that is the plan. We're slowly but shortly kind of getting there. I want to have enough material to be able to put on a really great show for people. But yeah, it's out there. It's in, it's in the universe. Here's a question. Who would you most like to play in a biopic? And specifically, mentioning musicians. They mentioned David Bowie, Kurt Cobain. Have you ever dreamed of playing a musician, a real-life musician in a biopic? Yeah, I would always be interested in playing a musician in a biopic. I mean, the Bowie movie that Johnny Flynn did was something that was floating

around my universe for a minute. And I think the thing that, the thing that scares me about that is you know it's it's seemingly very difficult logistically to obtain both the rights to the story and the music combined yeah so i think if if the project was right i would definitely do a bowie thing it would be scary but it would be something that i would be very very interested in doing but there's like a script that has been floating around since i was like 19 um it's not a biopic about a real rock star but it is a biopic about a musician and I remember reading it and there's still part of that character that's like exists within me and I sort of tried to kind of get it sort of bring it back to life again but you know everyone's kind of moved on it's been it's

like 16 years everyone's like you're like still here still here yes yeah yeah yeah nobody's but sometimes I agree sometimes those like those kind of pseudo masked like biopics are the best like that that even like Todd Haynes like I'm not there that was kind of about Dylan but kind of an interesting interpretation velvet gold mine like these ones that are kind of like they're not the literal biopic but like using that persona multiple personas that life as a means to express something bigger about the musician or kind of the coolest ones in a way I mean I'm not there like that film for me is just like such a huge part of my you know cinematic arc as it were you know Blanchett's perform I mean everyone's performance in it you know even down to Ben

Wishaw just sat in that you know courtroom smoking cigarettes I mean aesthetically I'm just like oh fuck come on um but like you know Blanche's performance in that film performance in anything is fucking ridiculous but like she just crushed it like mind-blowing did you have you mentioned like Wishaw and I I wonder like did you have like a group like a peer group like you know you're you're a little younger than like the patinsons and the maca boys and the hittleston so i'm curious like did you have like a kind of a group that you feel you came of age with back home or no yeah well kind of i mean you know red main um storage patinson we were all kind of when we were in our sort of they were a little bit older than me like

you say but we would all do the same kind of photo shoes together so you know there's like up-and-coming actor shoot. So we always find ourselves on set. And then, you know, it's like you'd see Rob just, like, jet off into the stratosphere. And, you know, I felt like we were kind of, like, old versions of, like, Peter O'Toole sat in bars, smoking, cigarettes, drinking, being, like, fucking jaded,

you know, being, like, bastard. So there were kind of a few of us, and it's always really nice, you know, like, when I went back to go and do that really brief thing that I did in Fantastic Beast, you know, Eddie came into the trailer and, like, came and gave me this big hug and was like, it's so good to see you, man. Like, I haven't seen you forever. So they were kind of, yeah, I was kind of part of that group, but also kind of removed

from it too. I never, I guess I've always suffered from this like imposter syndrome where I'm like, I'm not fucking meant to be here. What the hell's going on? I always say this. All the best ones have imposter syndrome. if you think you belong then i don't i don't want to talk to you i don't have the confidence you the good ones doubt themselves every single day no matter how successful they are um you are

correct me i'm wrong you're going to be working with kevin costner not just kevin costner but on a kevin costner directed western i'm very excited for this kevin is a great director he knows westerns um this is the next gig yes sir what's the prep have you ever done anything like this i don't I feel like I've seen this on the resume before. No, it's funny. I've never, I've never been in a Western, but interestingly enough with the way that my music has been going since January of this year, it all felt, it's all felt very serendipitous, you know,

it's like run on, had this like, you know, obviously Johnny Cash covered it. And, you know, the look of the video that we made had this like kind of Western feel to it so much so that we even used a grading when we were editing, you know, this Western grade on it. And through to I Am as well, which was a song that I made, I think, before, like I even got the gig with Kevin. So it has felt like everything's been sort of leading up to this moment.

And then now, you know, I'm really immersing myself in the world of sort of more modern westerns and picking out characters that for me, you know, for me, helping me build this person that I like in the character that I'd like to see on the screen when I'm watching it. So, you know, it's like I'm watching,

maybe it's like Bone Tomahawk and, like, the proposition. You know, I went back to, yeah, I went back to Django on Change just because Leo's performance in that is so great and so visceral, you know, I've got the 310 to humor that I've got to watch as well.

And, like, assassination. You know, I've got a sort of endless list that I'm immersing myself in, I'm also putting posters up around my house of Western films. I've got this, you know, great poster by Kurt Russell that I'm about to put up. So I'm really, yeah, exactly, yeah. So I'm really getting into it. This is a more pleasant mood board than the Stranger Things mood board.

This is not quite as dark as a Vecanum mood board. Not necessarily. I'll tell you this much. The man ain't that nice. Oh, no. With the baddies that you're so good at, how have you not played an evil imperial officer in Star Wars yet? Donald Gleason stole your gig, basically, I think, and I love Donald.

I love Donald, too, but I'm going to be honest with you, Josh. I'm gunning for James Bond. Not to play Bond, but to be a villain in Bond. And I remember before Rami did the film, I was like, I'm going to be the first person, you know, like under 30 to do it. And then Rami comes along and just like kills it. And I'm like, damn it, I wanted to do that. So I would love that.

I've always said that. There's still time. There's still time. What's your villain? Do you want to scar, an affectation? What's your, what's your? I do you know what? I actually have no idea.

That's a very good question. I think it's just the dream of being the villain. Hey, you have the constipated Vecna voice. You have that ready. So just recycle that. I love, I don't know what I could do with it. I think it's always, it's also because like I always felt like, there's a point I think in every like British actors career where we go,

never going to be Bond. It's never going to happen. Look at me. And then you go, well, what can I do? Oh, I could be the villain. That could be fun. Yeah. So I got to the understanding that I'd never play Bond. It'd be the campus James Bond ever. Let's be honest.

The Marchionie would have like a little umbrella in it. I'd watch it. These folks would watch it. We'd all watch it. Look, you could play, I was going to say Q, but Ben's got that in lockdown. Wishaw's got that. So we'll find a role for you in the Bond franchise.

I'm so happy for all the success, man. And it's, look, it's been a journey, and the journey will continue. And I mean, I don't need to say it for this audience, but obviously the music continues, check out. So are we going to see more singles? I know it's not necessarily an album forthcoming, but more music on its way? Yeah, more music on its way in varying different formats and varying different degrees. I think, you know, for me also doing the music is offering me an experience to direct my own videos more so now.

And that's something that I think eventually I would love to. attack in the feature world and get into. So, yeah, more music, more continuation of the story, just more art in general, just continuing to make art and put it out there for as long as humanly possible. Amazing. Continued success, man. It's been great to track what you've been up to. Congratulations again.

We'll talk, I'm sure, more about the music and Stranger Things and your next baddie with Mr. Kevin Costner. it's been a real pleasure to catch up man i hope you're hope you stay well and um anytime you need me i'm here in my little zoom box for you josh you're so sweet it's been a long long time for those people who who have either just made it or or um or don't know josh you know has interviewed me a lot over my career and it's been so nice to kind of see you again and i remember seeing you on the carpet at MTV, you know, and just gone and just feeling like, wow, man, this is crazy.

So thank you. I'm really, really grateful. Well done you. You know, I'll see you around. I'm here. I'm here for you. I love, yeah. And for the record, our last interview on the carpet was with the three of you, Eduardo, Joe, and you.

And I think I asked you to make your answer so short that we could fit into a 30-second. fight for TV. So I apologize for that. I'm glad today we had an opportunity to have a real chit chat. Hope to see you in real life, buddy, again soon. And again, thanks everybody for watching today. Thanks to Jamie Campbell-Bowler.

We'll see you on the next one, guys. Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

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