Happy Sad Confused - Jamie Dornan

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

We're unabashed "Belfast" fans at "Happy Sad Confused" so we're especially excited to welcome Jamie Dornan at long last to the podcast. Not only does he hail from Belfast but he delivers a stellar performance in Kenneth Branagh's very personal tale. Jamie joins Josh to reminisce about his humble beginnings, hanging out with the likes of Andrew Garfield and Eddie Redmayne, auditioning for Superman, and learning to live with bad reviews. Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Jamie Dornan embraces his roots with the new film, Belfast. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

My little podcast that could, eight years and counting. Wow, how have we made it this far, guys? Welcome, welcome, if you are a long-time listener to the podcast, welcome back. If you're a new listener, and chances are, there might be a few of you because last week's episode created quite a stir. Andrew Garfield made some news with his tell-all revealing conversation with me about Spider-Man, No Way Home. Let me tell you guys, it was just, as much as it was a blast to record that conversation with Andrew, it was just so. pleasureable to see it be enjoyed by so many of you out there. Nothing makes me happier.

It's nice to make news, short of break news, if there's something like newsy and cool in something, but it was almost less about the newsbreaking elements than people just enjoying a happy Andrew Garfield talking about Spider-Man and the two of us laughing about this odd circumstance that was Andrew Garfield dancing around being in Spider-Man for so long. long. And to see it come full circle with that conversation, as I said to a bunch of people, you know, every so often, everything lines up in the right way. And that conversation certainly did. So if you're catching up with the podcast, thanks to that conversation, welcome aboard. We've got nearly 400 episodes of Happy Say I Confused over the last eight years for you to catch up on.

So you've got a lot of homework, guys. I won't hold you to it, but I will say chances are if a favorite actor or actress or filmmaker. It's a good shot. They've been on the podcast. Sometimes they've been on more than once, like Andrew. That was his second, oh, third appearance on the podcast. Today's guest is a first-time guest on the podcast, but someone I've known for quite a while. It is the absurdly talented, the disgustingly handsome, the man, the myth, the legend that is, Mr. Jamie Dornan. So excited to see all the success that Jamie Dornan is experiencing now. He is, of course, starring in Belfast, which is a lovely movie. I don't know if I've heard a bad word about this movie.

I don't know how you could not love Belfast. This is the inspired by The True Story Tale told by Kenneth Brana, again, one of my favorite filmmakers. He's been on the pot a few times. This tells his early years, about his early years growing up in Belfast. It's shot in gorgeous black and white. It's got beautiful music from Van Morrison. It is nostalgic and sweet.

and features just wall-to-wall great performances. We had Katrina Belf on the podcast just a few weeks back talking about her performance in the film. Kieran Hines is fantastic. Judy Dench. The young man at the center of it who plays the young Kenneth Brana is fantastic. And Jamie gets to really just show off some new sides to himself

playing this really decent, hardworking father who's just doing his best to keep his family together in these turbulent times. It also features a beautiful musical sequence in it. Speaking of musical sequences, of course, let's give props to Jamie Dornan one more time for Barb and Star, go to Vista Del Mar. Of course, we talk about that in this conversation, too.

One of my obsessions in the last year, and if you haven't caught that film, a much different side of Jamie Dornan, what are you doing with your life? Go check that one out, too. Truly, the various colors of Jamie Dornan have been shown in the last year plus in film. And he's just, you know, Jamie's an easy guy to talk to, a fun guy to talk to, just, you know, he's definitely one of my favorites.

So I'm very, very happy for him and all the success that he's experiencing, fingers crossed. He may even get an Oscar nomination out of this. I would not be shocked at all. And, yeah, check out Belfast. And I hope you guys enjoy the chat today with Jamie. I know you will. There's a ton going on for me, professionally and stuff. I mean, there's just like so much happening.

a Q&A last night here in New York City with Bradley Cooper. That was fantastic. Bradley, of course, is in not only licorice pizza, one of my favorite movies of last year, but in Nightmare Alley, front and center in that film, of course, directed by Guillermo Datoro, who was on the podcast a few weeks back as well. The film is currently in some theaters in a black and white form. I've seen it in both color in black and white. It's gorgeous in both. The black and white is actually like a real treat. This film is, of course, a tried and true film noir, and it's only fitting that you can see it in its true essence and, like, you know, just like ultra gorgeous black and white cinematography. So whether you want it in the traditional color, or if you want to see it kind of like

true to its noir roots, check out Nightmare Alley. You know, I don't know if they, I don't know if the conversation with Bradley is going to be available. I know they did record it. The Fox people did record it. So I will definitely let you guys know if that becomes available somewhere. You know, on a personal note, it was really cool to catch up with Bradley. I haven't talked to him in years, and it sounds crazy to talk like, oh, you know, once's the last time I caught up Bradley Cooper. But the truth is, the beginning part of my career, about 15 years ago when I was starting at MTV and doing, you know, in-person interviews, that kind of coincided with

Bradley Cooper's explosion coming kind of right off of wedding crashers and then into the hangover movies through his performance in Silver Linings Playbook. It just like all like, you know, really snowballed for him. And there was a time where I was talking to him all the time. And it was really touching and sweet that like, you know, when he saw me, he like he was, he was kind of nostalgic for it. He was like, you know, we used to talk all the time. Like, I haven't seen you in so long. Like, and that's really, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I found that just really, you know, this guy has a lot going on, to say the least, and has experienced, like, the, the utmost success you can have in the industry

and the fact that he connected with me in that real way and was, you know, up for reminiscing. It meant a lot to me. Not to mention, I mean, the guy is just fantastic and Nightmare Alley and also just knows his stuff. Like, we were really chit-chatting a lot beforehand about his upcoming second directing effort. He's going to be directing a film called Maestro, that he is deep, in pre-production on. And he was giving me some tantalizing tidbits about the casting to come in that that I cannot share right now. But I'm so, again, so happy for Bradley and where his career is gone

and the fact that he is now like, I mean, the fact that he is charting his own path in this unique way and collaborating with the likes of Guillermo Totoro. Anyway, I hope, hopefully that conversation will be able to be shared with you guys at some point. It was in a live theater environment. But as I said, I know they recorded it. So hopefully it will emerge for all of you guys to enjoy. What else can I mention? I don't know. Lots of cool stuff coming. Some MTV conversations happening. Nothing I can really pinpoint right now. Yeah, I guess I won't tease anything that hasn't been recorded yet, but there's a lot to come in the next few days. So by the time we talk next week, I'll have more to say. In the meantime, let's just get right to the main event.

Jamie Dornan, the charming star, one of the stars of Belfast. And this is a guy born and raised in Belfast. So true to his roots, exciting to see the prodigal son come home to film this ode to his own past and to Kenneth Browna's past. I hope you guys enjoy this chat. Here's me and Jamie Dornan. Finally, at Long Last, Jamie Dornan, Jamie, I don't know what, I guess it's, this is the pricey paper being in a classy, movie is you finally have to do the podcast. Welcome to Happy Sack Confused Buddy. Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. He is well hydrated. He just showed off his four chocolate biscuits that I've

never wished my hand could reach through a screen more than right now. I'm going to start with the first chocolate biscuit right now. Are you one of these people that just genetically can eat anything they want and they will never put on the weight? Good good call on shoving a biscuit in your enough as a podcast start. And we're off. I'm someone who would struggle to put on weight. And I know to many people

that's not an affliction. But I find it to be having somebody always play a lot of sport, particularly as a kid. And often play, my main sport was rugby, where you needed to be bigger and I always felt like the skinny kid who couldn't do it even though I played well but I always felt that was holding me back so it's always bothered me that

I can't put on weight and I'm still a bit like that now I guess not most people 99.9% people find it very lucky to have fast metabolism stuff and I've always not liked it well look I'll take any kind of self-loathing I can get I mean if it just if it's the other direction from me that's okay as long as there is loathing and a feeling of inadequacy, then I'm good. Yeah, good. Well, then you're covered with this. So congratulations on Belfast for the gajillionth time. I assume this doesn't get old. But look, you've been in every kind of project, every kind of reviews in your career, every kind of like good, bad, medium accolades. But this is the one that I feel like, you know, we're always chasing. Actors are always chasing. This is the one.

And that, like, really checks all the boxes. Does it feel like, in some ways, this is kind of like, oh, yeah, this is what I've been kind of, like, racing after for 15, 20 years? Yeah, sort of, you know, it's kind of like, you sort of don't know what it's going to be. Yeah, look, it's easy to say that in the life because of the response. But, like, yeah, let's look at it, like, from the beginnings of, like, the origins of it, like, being sent the script, been told it's Kenneth Branagh, writing, directing it. It's Dame Judy Dentsies playing your mother.

Kieran Hines playing your dad. Katrina Balthus pain your way. I only knew about one of it. I only knew about Judy Dench at the beginning when it came to me. That alone is enough to be like, oh, Jesus, you know, this might be something. You know, hopefully it is. This script's incredible. If we get this right, it could really be something.

But even then, you never know. You know, I've had situations where I felt brilliant about something on set. And then, you know, it hasn't had love, but maybe not the love we were expecting, whatever it is. So with hindsight, maybe it's easy to say because it has been so much love for this. But I've always, you know, your job is so much easier if you've got good words to say, I'm a good director. I mean, it's as simple as that, you know.

And I feel that that's what's happened here. You know, this happened a few times before for me. But, you know, I think I always kind of live by that Peter O'Too, quote of great words, make great actors, you know. And I think if you've got to a certain level, you obviously got someone to offer and then so that when and then when those good opportunities come your way you know you take them and hope that people respond well and as you well know it's so much is out of the control even if you make the great film that you're so proud of for any number of

a thousand reasons the wrong distributor the wrong time whatever no one ever sees it so like again this one just thankfully resonated resonated the festivals founded audience continues to find that audience So it's just blessing upon blessing, I would think. Yeah, it's just a combination of all those things and timing being everything. And timing being everything from, you know, even as simple as like me being Ken, the lockdown happening in him giving him the space to write a story that's based on his life that's been in his head for 50 years. And me being the right age and at the right stage in my career or whatever that I made sense. You know, all those things.

You know, it's about all of that. you know, I'd be, if I was in between ages for the characters in this and I saw that this was made, I'd be like, oh, how annoying. They're making a movie about home town, and I'm not right for it, you know. So it's a combination of all that luck and timing, but it's, it's a good feeling. Is the rumor true that Ken just basically Google Belfast actor and your name just happened to pop up? It is true, yeah. My whole, you know, aim in life is to never get outside that sort of top three famous Belfast actors list because are the rankings that move around do you like check the current rankings day by day yeah it's usually you know between Liam Neeson and me hopping back

and forth depending what releases we have you know um but if I drop out of that top three I'm screwed because that is how they cast movies you know is it is it poor form or we are a weird thing to ask a director like why you cast me what did you see in me what did you ask for me is that is that for me Yeah, sort of question I ask every single director. Particularly for someone like Ken, because when I was said, like he wants you to, he's making a film called Belfast. He'd love you to do it. We're going to send you a script tonight. Read it as fast as you can.

I read it that night, spoke to Ken next day, said yes immediately. And I, for that sort of thing, because it's kind of brown and we're talking about, you know, an absolute legend in the industry and stuff, there is a part of it. you thinking like is this some sort of mistake does he think I'm somebody else and then because it was really like he wants you to you're the guy like he's not talking to anyone else okay and then I so read the script thinking how small is this part gonna be I mean this is going to be you know and by the way would have been fine with that and then realized how big it was I'm like Jesus right okay

this is serious and then to my other amazement Ken had seen everything I'd ever done. I mean, small stuff that you probably haven't even said, like everything. And still wanted me after seeing the whole stuff. So I was amazed by the whole thing, but thank God he did. I talked to your buddy Katrina Balfe on the podcast pretty recently. I asked her a version of this that I'll ask you.

You know, as people know by now, sure, this is obviously a very personal story for Ken and based on his own life growing up, his parents. When you're approaching the father character, is it a blend of his dad, what's in the script, your own father, and where they all meet? Give me a sense of sort of that kind of magical blend. Yeah, I think it is, ends up being, you know, a sort of an Irish stew of different influences. but it really does essentially boiled. I've got to get off cooking analogies,

but it goes boiled down to... You've got three more minutes waiting for you. The very root of a stew is a script. You know, that is what... That is all we have to go on to begin with and then everything's built around that and your own influences and certainly my dad was an influence

on the character I played and his dad before him and everything I knew about. I come from a long line of men from Belfast, so I have a lot to mind there. And then it's, you know, the access to Ken, to be able to ask him what his father would have, how he would have responded in this situation. But then the great thing about it,

and I'm sure, you know, Katrina said the same, was that Ken was never trying to sort of iron fist us in to kind of like business you my parents were you must act like this it was very much giving us a freedom to do what we wanted to with it and that is a massive thing josh like that is so huge as an actor like it's all you're all you're looking for really i believe is to feel uh that you're trusted and with that trust you gain a confidence and a freedom that makes doing your job so much easier like It's night and day between I've been involved and stuff where I have felt the opposite of that. I felt that there's lots of people whispering behind thinking they made a bad decision and I shouldn't be there.

It is paralyzing that experience, truly paralyzing. Well, I was going to say, I would imagine it's because that version of it that you didn't have is like you're chasing something unattainable, something of vision in someone else's brain that can't be communicated. And at least in this kind of collaborative relationship, it's you're a part of the process as opposed to like guessing at what someone wants isn't seeing exactly i think you said it well like fighting against something or fighting against an opinion of a director fighting against a script fighting against uh what the character's doing or you know how how what your take on it can sometimes be very different to the filmmakers take even though that's not what seemed to be

before you started shooting. Right. And stuff, but it was just very cohesive, this whole thing. We all felt like we were in tune with each other at all times. The actors, all of them,

and Ken, it was just always very like, there was zero friction onset at any given time. And that your whole experience, and usually the outcome is going to be better, if that's the case. You mentioned your dad. And, you know,

you've been frank about this and talking about, you know, He said, man, you lost your dad last year. I know. I mean, I know what that's like. I lost my dad the year before. And it's, you know, a sea change, needles to say. I'm curious in talking, in talking about him in this process, has it been cathartic? Has it been helpful? Or it could go the other way, I suppose. But clearly, it's it's helping you in some way. Yeah, I think it has been. I probably stopped crying during Q&A so much, Loya. When we first took it to tell you, and we got such an unbelievable initial response to the film and it was just Ken and I then Katrina had just had her baby and Keeron and Judy haven't travelled over yet and Jude wasn't right it was so it's just the two of us and we had a lot of between Ken and I we both cried at every single Q&A we did but often for me it was almost always you know related to dad and

the pain of him not being able to see this film but also the comfort of knowing that he I was making it, I was making it with the people I was making it with and all the hope that he would have had and that he did have for that. Yeah, I definitely think it's been cathartic and in a way helpful to be bringing this film of all films out and to be talking about it so much in the passing months after we've lost them. But, you know, as well as anyone, the grieving process is unpredictable and I've been through, I lost my mom when I was young and I've been through it before, but I'm a different, I'm a different age and stage and a father myself obviously now and it changes everything also because of the circumstances of COVID and I

haven't seen my dad since Christmas 2019 because of restrictions and and we haven't been able to, you know, we haven't had a funeral from my dad yet, you know, we're coming on. we're 10 months exactly now so it's it's difficult to sort of contextualise how I'm dealing with it or what it is

but I think it's probably only been a good thing that I'm able to talk about a movie that would be so close to my dad because of where he was from and who he was but also have that movie have the response to that movie you know if I was sitting doing some movie that, you know, in the passing months and year after his death,

that I was having to front up and do press all the time for something that was getting destroyed and had no significant meaning to him, it would be a very different story. Sure. Well, let's talk about some of your lovely co-stars because you were gifted with an amazing ensemble here. You've mentioned them all already.

Anybody that knows me knows I positively adore Katrina Ball. She's the best. Surprise to hear. and when I was researching today that you got your paths never crossed you didn't get that outlander audition man you weren't in the top three there no i was uh they typed in top three scottish famous actors i think for that one and sam sam's probably up there uh you know besides sean connery somewhere um who was too old at the time at the beginning of that it would have been a choice it would have been interesting an 80 year old shot um i don't kill me i've yet to see outlander too i've

never seen it so I feel I feel bad I don't Katrina had never seen the fall until we were what until we were shooting so we weren't we're not big fans of each other's but you know if the only thing I obviously will see some of Katrina's work but in a lovely way all I know of Katrina buff as an actor is in Velfast where she gives one of the most stunning performances I've seen so it's it for my money she's like the best actor in world. But yeah, you know, she was just, what can I say about Katrina? I mean, she's a powerhouse, you know, she is, but she brings such a lightness in her, in her human interaction in the way she is naturally, but then has this absolute stealingess and grit. Yes. She can just switch

to, you know, and you can become fearful of her very quickly. And that is. a massive gain doing this for a living, you know, for her to have that in her armour is incredible. And I've said this before, but if I could do every job with Katrina Balf, my career be, I'd be really happy. And, you know, I feel like the work would always be good and would always have a good time, you know. But it's incredible. We've had a, we do have a very similar background, you know, and we both are people from the same part of the world, a tiny part of the world who went off and we're modeling in mostly in New York and for you know pretty much at the same time there's maybe she was two years ahead of me probably um I'm we did meet

at TIF we met at TIF about three years ago we both had different films there and we met we were introduced very quickly and I remember thinking God she's tall and I couldn't work with her based on her heart not that I'm short but she's very tall no it's annoying I was so wrong, you know. But it's big of you to look past that. Yeah, you know, it was obviously when I heard it was going to be her. I was a bit of, a bit tall. I'll let her go.

She's good at acting. But yeah, it's crazy. I remember hearing that there was a model from Monaghan who was like had lots of similar friends to me in New York and stuff. And I sort of just didn't believe it. and for whatever reason, we never cross path. And which of the three 50 Shades films is Judy Densh's favorite? Did she tell you how she ranks them?

Like, you liked the Freed because she just said she was happy it was over? I mean, by all accounts, I've only talked to Judy Densh, I think once in my illustrious career, and it was very briefly, but by all accounts, she's the best. She's like just disarms you and is just like, comes to play.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Those two things are perfectly put, you know. And it's really lovely as an actor. I was not a young actor anymore, but I'm younger than Judy to have someone like that, someone's so iconic to see the way she approaches it, which is to, you know, I've done all the work, but leave it behind and be totally relaxed on set.

We're all shitting ourselves to a point, obviously, anyway but like but trying to keep yourself I as relaxed as possible as much easier to act if you're if you're relaxed and to see someone like Judy being like that and be in the middle of a story when someone shouts turnover and to then fall in line beautifully between action and cut and then as soon as you hear cut go back to telling her story you know like it's like that is that is 90 the 99% of I work with her like that, but sometimes you'll see someone who has quite a more of a methodical

approach maybe to the point where you're going, should I be banging my head against a wall like that, making those noises? I'm sorry, will that help me? And then you see someone not doing that who's of that caliber and you think, no, it's okay, what works for me seems to work, it's working for her, and we're all good. Now, not to say that every person's life and child is worthy of a film, but I'm, curious if you look back at your own childhood, what genre of film is the Jamie Dornan adolescent story? Is it comedy? Is it horror? Is it an erotic thriller? What are we looking at?

Um, I think it's probably some kind of, um, family comedy. Um, it's probably my dad was a huge Steve Martin fan, and the only time we went to cinema trips as a family was to see exclusively to see Steve Martin movies. So in my head, it's like a sort of family drama, Steve Martin type vibe, you know, like a, like a parenthood type thing where I actually remember watching parenthood a lot as a kid and going to see it in cinema. And one of the kids, I think I'm right saying he was asthmatic. and I was asthmatic and I still am asthmatic

and I remember sort of really identify with him and there's another kid who was really he used to like put a bucket over his head and basse it against the wall and stuff I think I had a bit of that sort of hyper as I was very hyper as a kid but well behaved I think but like I had a lot of energy still I have a lot of energy

and I'm not good with being still so I think it was probably yeah I'm going to say like a Steve Martin family comedy type type vibe Well, it's good to know that you had good taste running in your blood from the start. And that gives us a good segue into, I do want to talk a little bit about formative films for us. And this wasn't necessarily one you saw as an adolescent, but it is a comedy. And I want to ask you for a comfort movie.

I don't know what's in the air, by the way, Jamie, but we are on an Adam McKay kick. I just spoke. Who was the actor that just chose the most recent one? not oh my god i'm totally blanking not vice not oh it's the big short someone chose the big short it'll come to me but anyway you chose a different adam k film more traditional uh uh comedic variety of anime mackay tell us what you chose and why i chose anchorman uh because i think if you really like tallied it up it's probably the film i've seen most in my life um which is saying something because it was probably you know i was in my twenties when when it was

when it was made um it was just at a particular time in london when i haven't just moved to london but you know i'd been in london a while and that had come out and i had big impact on me and i still think it's kind of perfect but there was a particular time i'm honestly i put it on every day i mean i really did and it's like it became like a language and you could communicate through quotes from microman right but remember there's a real particularly real like uh sweet sweet spot of that where you'd meet people in different wherever you were in the world and something would happen and someone would say hey lady in the red hat or something or like milk was a bad choice or you know just some unbelievable line from that movie and then you're in it's like it was like a conversation starter and there's so much collective love for that film and you know and then everyone had an opinion on the sort of the sort of lost movie that they made up out of

outtakes and stuff that I had hands on once and then of should there be an Ironman 2 and all of that and once there was that did we think that they should have made that all of that you know stuff around that movie so for me I I would still if it's a bit of a go-to for me if I just don't know what I want to watch and not in the mood to tackle anything new and not in the mood to tackle anything heavy i will take it on you're also getting those guys in their absolute pump not that they're

not still doing brilliant work in fact we just finished the shrink next door which has obviously yeah and paul rudd in it here both an anchor man but there's it feels like anchor mount just came at time when they were just oh oh just every beat they did was hilarious you know um well it is it is it's i think it's interesting because when you look back i think it was the big it was a big shift for Rudd certainly that started like a run of comedy for him but for for feral and i you'll find no bigger fan of will feral he just makes me laugh he's just like the funniest human on the planet and he his specialty i would argue is the confident idiot and there's no greater just bombastic idiot than ron burgundy it is just apex will feral totally totally it was

apex will feral and also christina up okay oh my god like for me her performance is just like, well, I would say that the casting in general in that film is so perfect, but she has so many moments with Will Ferrell as we've said before in this absolute pump where

my takeaway is what she's doing often. She's reacting to some of that ridiculousness that he's doing is just priceless and I will, I love her for that and you know, I just think the collective of those actors

of the news team you know like we didn't know that much about Steve Carell then no sure and brick oh my God brick's an all time like you know genius the way he formed that character

you know totally I mean how many quotes of brick do we have you know is there one scene it's hard to pick because there are dozens in there is there one scene that sticks out for you it's very hard to look past

the you know 60% of time works every time scene with the with the Cologne and poor other than that. I think that's a bit, you know, probably my favorite moment. I love the fight, the initial fight when Vince Bond and the, you know, take your mother out for a nice seafood dinner.

You can tell those guys are just riffing and I've seen stuff where, behind the scene stuff where Adam McKay is literally shouting out lines to them and they're just, you know, and it's amazing to see that and just aid them not to crack up when they hear those lines and still deliver them the way they do. I experienced that a bit when we did Barman Starr.

Sure. Google Vista Del Marr, which Will Ferrell produced, Adam McKay produced. And Josh Greenbaum, our director, Nat, who's an absolute legend. We did a bit of that. We did a lot of improv in that. movies you could probably tell and um we did scenes like that where josh was just showing our stuff

and that half the battle was just like taking it in for a second and then like refocusing like don't don't don't don't don't make guys with christin and annie just don't fucking you know cast their eye right now they just try to try to take it on and then breathe and then get that line out if you can there was a lot of that so i'm so lucky i feel that i've got to experience a sense of what that is you know and it's amazing feeling I got a chance finally to catch up with Kristen after a long while and profess my love for that film. You know how obsessed I am with it. So that must, I mean, now knowing how much you revere that kind of comedy and that an anchorman in particular,

must feel all the more satisfying that you're in one of those movies now. You get that sense already that this has become an instant cult classic. Yeah. I'm just, you know, try not to like text Kristen and Lonnie every day to tell them to write a sequel. That's your mind's when I need to text them to tell them to write. But yeah, we did a Q&A virtually, of course, at some point when Barb and Star came out and Will, and Will, I literally haven't met the guy, but Will, Farrell, compared it.

And I really had a moment of going like, this is nuts. Like this is nuts too. Also it's my first comedy to be surrounded by such esteemed company and such titans and geniuses of comedy. And I remember thinking that a tactic of mine with that interview should be not to speak. Don't screw it up for you in the future. just do not speak bad blame a dodgy Wi-Fi connection or something or just got guys i'm i can't hear you but i'm i'll just you guys are but i you know because i just thought oh my god like it's one thing you know i i had time with christin and annie um to build a relationship with them

where they let me in and they let me in really quickly thankfully and they found me funny and i find them obviously hilarious but suddenly will barrel was in this thing and i was like oh shit right he's not i'm not going to try to make him laugh you know but um yeah what a treat and and to experience that at that level of those people and i really too truly hope we get to make more of those movies are so fun i really hope so as well just for the record my my brain freeze i want to account for it was john sina of all people that shows the big short as his comfort movie oh really kind fascinating, right? Yeah. So I'm curious. Okay, so going back career-wise, we're not going to detail every facet of the illustrious modeling career, but I'm curious, once you segue out of modeling

into acting, and I think Marie Antoinette was the debut, correct? Yeah. So a hell of a debut, obviously, was Sophia Coppola. I'm just curious, like, do you remember in those early years, like, were there good aspects of modeling, of technique, of knowing your own body, etc., that you could apply to acting or was there more baggage you had to kind of like unlearn I think it's not like I well listen I'll say this it's not like I never acted I did loads of drama at school I used to do youth theater back in Belfast you know so it had been something that I had within me anyway and experience of I do think there's something really um um useful about being in front of any sort of camera um particularly i feel you know for film television acting a lot of it is a bit of a dance

with the camera sometimes and a movement it's not and it's not a it's not a oh if i move here to like this is my good side i'm going to look better but like it's it's a it's a it's almost the other way it's almost like a a a comfortableness that you get from being from the camera where it's not weird particularly close-up stuff are usually often when you're doing photos shoots and the cameras right in your face and it's actually just being comfortable with that and not like you know seizing up and you know and that that is weird technique like stuff like that is important because sometimes acting is a funny game and you can turn up on set and I've seen this where you know directors have loved like an audition tape or whatever it is and then for someone

who's like a day player and they're coming in doing a day and then on set there's something happens to them and they freak out and they're suddenly just really nervous and um or seemingly unprepared even though you know it's usually like a nerve thing so actually that understanding of a camera being okay with something that is capturing you uh i think it's a is a help but then on the other side you have the whole stigma attached to this guy got this photograph taken for a living so he can't act you know uh which you are battling you know you battling and you know battling and particularly in those early years um but not so much i think i feel like i battled more with that in the uk and i think in the states and the first time we came to l.a they're cooler but it's more it's a that's more of

a um it's more of a accepted pathway in than in uk where it's all the point how much time you spent on the boards etc and in ralda yeah yeah yeah yeah So I'm curious, you know, as people probably know by now, I'm most fascinated by this, by the early friend groups and the groups that, like, end up succeeding. It seems like you were hanging out with, like, the, every superhero that's now working. It's kind of insane. I actually just did the podcast yesterday with Andrew Garfield, for one. And I know you put your buddies with Redmayne and Pattinson. I'm just curious, like, in that group, like, give me a sense of the dynamics.

I'm just curious, like, was there one that was like, okay, this is the one? the guy in this guy in the group is going to be the the big star like was there an internal kind of like acknowledgement of who is going to go where yeah that was garfield yeah that was garfield we were always i remember when i i i'll never forget that i i met andrew i haven't seen any of his work at that when we were very young um and i'm a year uh older than Garf, but it was, um, I think it was probably, I met Eddie 2005, uh, and I met Garf, I think later that year, maybe 2006. Um, and I hadn't seen, had Boy A came out. I'm not sure if it come out yet, but maybe it had and I, I sort of missed it, whatever, but I remember that night,

I was with, um, Eddie and, uh, a guy called Tom Sturridge, who's a good friend of ours and a few other guys and girls and Garf was going to come and meet us and I did and he was they were talking about him in this way of you know Martin Brando was about the young Martin Brando was about to join us gracious with his presence that was kind of the way it was a bit like this guy's such an actor and we're not really but um you know so I remember he came with this sort of tag of like this guy's unbelievable and and he's going to really, you know, make stuff happen. You know, instantly just a total goofball, accessible,

slightly ridiculous person. You know, but like an unbelievable talent. I mean, Garf and I have our own language. I mean, we genuinely talk to each other in a, that if you're with us and it's probably quite painful to be around, I think James Gordon realized that when we had us both on the show a couple months ago. can we just bring out all our silliness in each other and I love it but I think he was he just

seemed like the sure bet that was just going to make stuff happen and go on and do good things and like you know it took a while for all of us to find sort of the right everyone has your own path in this and you know find the right thing that would break you or whatever it is and but in a weird way it kind of did it has at this point worked out for all of us and I know that it that shouldn't have been the case in a way you know like we shouldn't have all you know we've all been in big franchises and you know it's kind of mad now when I think back to like being in LA in like 2008 and we sincerely weren't making progress exactly why particularly wasn't but we were you know there for a few months together

where nothing was happening right nothing you know, so, and there was no, wasn't the writer's strike, there wasn't a pandemic. No, excuse, it's just, it's a hard pass on Garfield. Yeah, totally. Well, it was mad, but, you know, so, you know, I joked about this. You, you've obviously, you have, you've had your billion-dollar franchise, but you haven't had your superhero role, which is kind of unusual in this day and age for someone that, of your ilk that would seemingly have that.

Is there one that, like, you desperately wanted? Is there one audition that jumps out at you? You must have done a dozen superhero auditions, I got to think. I kind of haven't. You know, I think almost, I think the only one I've actually auditioned for was Superman. That was way back when, that's when Henry Cabell got cast. That's probably 12 years ago or something, met more. You tell me, I don't know.

Did you get the suit on? Did you feel like you were actually in the running? No, but I wore my own suit there. was that a mistake? You were your under, your under, that might have been a bad call, man. Yeah, there were Superman pajamas. They weren't actually like an actual suit.

No, I remember, you know, early audition for that. I got nowhere near putting the suit on. I actually don't think I've been, you know, I've had meetings with heads of studios that do those things and we've talked about it, but I never got deep into any audition process for any of them back in the day. I feel like now the last few ones, I wouldn't say, there was a big audition process for, you know, too many of, you know, I'm too old now for Spider-Man.

I remember I did a screen test for unchartered years ago, years ago, when it was it, they were going to make it with different director and everything. and then and it went well and there's a point where like that maybe I was doing it or whatever and then and then it all went quiet and went away

and the director fell off and blah and then when I heard they were going to make it again I was like oh great and you're far too old now Tom Hallwood, wait he could be my son

Tom Hollander's half your age is doing it a legitimate movie star and I was like all right okay well listen you know that ship's ill but I don't I wouldn't pin like one that I

I'm prepared to do. If something came along, I'm interested in that world, but I'm also really happy where I am. You know, they're probably not looking at, you know, the sort of performance of Belfast and the quietness of that sort of film and thinking, let's shove a cape on that guy and throw him up into a harness.

But, you know. In a different respect. And I'm always fascinated by the reaction I get from different actors when I bring up the name Bond. Some of them clam up. Some are like, I'm not going to say a fucking word to you. I don't want to just jeopardize any chance. And some are like, yeah, that would be amazing.

Where do you fall? You must have daydreamed. You've been on those lists, whether it's real or not. It must be just flattering beyond words to even be on a list for like the ultimate cool hero. No, I think it's flattering to be on a list, sure. but we're all on a list you know we're all on the list if you're a certain age a certain type whatever you're you're on there there's been times i've been close to the top of that list

and there's times i've been close to the what might be the bottom of the an endless list um i you know that i that that really does work with whoever has a movie that people are talking about or tv show that people are talking about your hear of that list Or then you get people just on it all the time, like, I know, Tom Hardy's forever on it. Killian is forever on it, you know. Yeah, it's cool. I like, you know, it's, it's something that I don't give any thought to, to be honest. And, you know, if it came along, yeah, I mean, it would be certainly something to think about.

but I don't think about it until, I wouldn't think about it until it's a vague reality. Right. I'm curious, okay, so like, you're an intelligent man, Mr. Dornan. When, when, when 50 Shades, when your franchise, your potential ginormous franchise, which indeed became a ginormous billion-dollar franchise came around, you knew the baggage that was going to be there, for good or for bad. You knew there was a built-in audience and it was probably going to do huge,

was also going to probably, and indeed was, savaged by a lot of critics. Was there a tremendous amount of ambivalence? Like, were people around you, were your friends and family and agents all like, you've got to do this if the opportunity comes? Or was it a big kind of debate within your circle? It wasn't an instant, yes, by any means. For all of the reasons you've just said, it needed to be talked through. I sought counsel from friends, family, a lot of actors.

What did Garfield say? Let's go down the list. What did Redmates? He was too busy just swinging around New York, I think, at that time with his little web. But, you know, it's nice to have people like that close in your life. You will have an opinion and, you know, one that, that I think is expert almost. You know, I sort of nearly did it and then didn't get it.

Right. And I said this before that when I didn't get it, I felt a bit of relief because I was like, Jesus, that guy, per guy, he's gonna get wrecked here. You know, and then he maybe felt the same. and then suddenly there was and um but with way less time to make a decision yeah i got cast five weeks before we started shooting and my wife was 34 weeks pregnant and uh we had a lot of massive decisions to make very quickly it was a crazy time now when i when i think about it but yeah you're right look

i knew you know i knew because i thought about it before and i was nearly got it the first time which already got it. I knew that it came with all that baggage as you say and that the reality was it was going to make a ton of money and fans were going to love it and the critics were going to despise it because that's exactly what happened with the books and we that's what we were making. We weren't going well that's a bit of a template but we're going to do this whole different thing and change a lot of stuff about the but we were staying very truthful to the books so we knew what that was going to be. But I think movies that are made for the fans that the fans love can only be seen as a success really you know and um i'm really grateful that um

both dakota and i have you know despite some pretty rough stuff said about us probably particularly me um uh with the wave matters to come out and we're still making work that people really like and i've had some of those uh sort of said critics do you a bit of a 180, you know. Yeah. Particularly in the last few weeks because I've had this show in the UK that's come out and been a massive success called The Tourist that will come to the States pretty soon. And I had a nice moment where you were talking about, like, friends and family saying stuff

and the people say it's a mistake. When I got cast in 50 Shades, the fall had come out, got reception, being nominated for BAFTA, all this great stuff would happen. the announced out of 50s. There was a journalist in The Guardian was a big paper in the UK for Lucy Mangan who wrote a whole article about what a terrible career choice had made.

This before it even shot the thing. I'm there thinking, Jesus, right? Okay, so that's the general vibe, you know. Anyway, Lucy Mangan wrote a piece last week about how it's all sort of, not that she got it wrong, whatever, but like, you know, because of Belfast and the tourist. She liked them both

and maybe, you know, maybe it wasn't all the stupidest move in the world and blah, blah, blah, which I did have a little, like, so a nice little moment reading that article, I have to say. Because as much as you think you don't care, you kind of do, you know, you kind of do you care. Well, and you feel it. I'm sure you feel it, whether you're actively seeking out the reviews or not, you feel the general. No, I went through a phase of really actively seeking them out, and actually I once found this thing where someone had put all the worst things set up out me from the first 50thage movie

into like a neat little, like, Instagram post. How convenient? What am I doing? And I would look at it all the time. And, you know, I agreed with a lot of it. That's a sad thing. It occurs to me, I'm sitting here, and I've got my, I think I told you this last time

you were on the show. when you were on Stur Crazy, I have the, this is the Dakota Johnson, be in the butt, a question mug in her honor. Did you, I think you told me you're going to send me one, did you? No. I'll get you one. You've earned it. You've earned it. I think big sellers. We haven't sold them to, this is a hot commodity, just for friends and family. I'll get you one. Oh, no, but I'm so happy for both of you guys. I think, I feel like you both, obviously, like, you had the right attitude that self-deprecating humor probably got you through a lot of it. And I'm so happy for both of you. I saw an interview you did with your buddy Eddie Redmayne, I think about that a year ago, and you talked about how it's like dangerous to have a plan, right, as an actor. I mean, that being said, I look at the last few years as you start to do stuff after the 50 Shades movies, and it does feel like there's some kind of plan in place,

whether it's, you know, just associating with great actors, like Killian, with Dinklage, doing smaller cool work like a private war like I mean what was in your head like that coming off of that was there a sense of like what I need to kind of show people I can do outside of something like that yeah I think you're right like I think it's like it's it's like it's still really hard to plan it's almost like it's hard to plan it and I like particularly having three kids having to be like right I love this job but it's six months and it's in right in buck two you know I'm going like, Jesus, it's so hard to plan ahead. And so it's a sense of that.

And actually, planning the actual work is easier when you have a choice, I've got to say. And I've been lucky now for eight years or whatever. I've had a bit of a choice of the work I do. And, yeah, of course, it's often just like, what am I drawn to? And maybe it is there's a sort of natural sense of like, well, I've just done something like this. And I feel like I haven't really shown this side of myself, but I love this script. so it's not just i'm not going just to show that side of myself i really want to do it and by having that choice i've been able to make those decisions do you know what i mean yep and um yeah there's

probably a bit of um rebuilding again based on what i'm talking about like lucy mangan's already going a bit of like trying to prove to people um that uh i'm more than they think i am if that's all they've seen those films and stuff and i've been working away at that and i'm you know i think I've made good strides in that in the last, you know, six months particularly. It seems like that's the constant for most any actor. And certainly in your case, I mean, this is the recurring theme. You talk about the early, you know, as you segued from modeling into acting. I mean, it's just the original story.

It's just like they remember the last role or two. And you just got to keep showing them. There's more to me than that. Absolutely. And there's a challenge in that that I really love. And I have always loved a challenge. And I will always seek out a challenge. So, you know, I'm up for it, you know, I'm totally up for it.

And, you know, it's just a thing, you know, there's just, yes, you have a different reason for every job we do. And, you know, I feel like the more you're working, the more consistently your work is received well. A plan is slightly more easier to form, but it's still essentially overall hard to have a firm plan of what's going to happen. I'll end with this. I asked the followers of Happy Sack Confused for some questions. I have one here from Kimberly Hoover, who wanted to know if you hadn't become an actor, what career you would have pursued.

Is there one that jumps out? I would have tried to do something in sport. I've always loved sport, have been very sporty. I think about sport. I'm thinking about sport right now. I've been thinking about sport for the entire podcast.

Wow. Wow. Rude. Biscuits in sport. Oh, there he goes. He's got, I see his brain literally floating away.

But yeah, I think a lot, like I was one of those to get you watched Jerry McGuire and thought, yeah, I'm going to do that. But so it would have been maybe something in sports,

but I think the reality is it's quite, it's sort of harder to get into than people think sport. Not as hard as acting to get into, but like, I probably would have become, like,

as you say because where I came from you could drop out of university or not go to university at all and still do that to an extent and then work your way up without a degree or whatever and I felt that probably the reality of where I was headed yeah I mean it's good I could have been going around you know I love it when you know you've been showing a house and they bring you into the bathroom and say and this is the bathroom um yeah I've been in a bathroom before I know Yeah, exactly. And if you, yeah, this is, yeah, they're cupboards, yeah. Yeah, you know, I'm not saying that's all there is to that job,

but there's a lot of it is that, and I've always always made me laugh. Wow, you've just been cancelled by the real estate industry. You've lost that segment of your, I hope there's not a big academy demo that also sells real estate because you just fuck yourself, my friend. I'm worried there is. Congratulations on all your success, buddy. You are now a happy, happy, second, confused veteran at long last, long overdue. No, truly.

I mean, in all earnestness, you know I love your work and you're a good one man. And congratulations on Barb and Star yet again because I'll never stop thanking you congratulating you on that. And Belfast, if you guys have not checked it out yet, what are you doing with your lives? This is pure light and joy in a dark universe. You need this in your lives, guys.

Buddy, thanks for your time. Thanks, most, cheer, but I appreciate it. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened.

On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem witch trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, killers of a flower moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country from the Miami Drug Wars and Dixie Mafia in the south, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers, and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. Every episode features narrative writing and

cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. Find infamous America, wherever you get your podcasts.