Happy Sad Confused - Janelle Monae, Damien Chazelle

Episode Date: January 4, 2017

In this first “Happy Sad Confused” of the new year, it’s all the more appropriate that Josh welcomes two artists who very much represent the future. First up is Janelle Monae, already a phenomenal music success story, who has made a huge splash as an actor in recent months. Despite never acting on screen before, Monae’s first films roles, in “Moonlight” and “Hidden Figures” prove she’s a talent to be reckoned with, no surprise to anyone familiar with the rest of her career. Monae chats with Josh about her path as an artist, why she’s always been a sci-fi lover, and the influence her friend and mentor, Prince, had on her life. Also joining Josh on the podcast this week is Damien Chazelle, the filmmaker behind “Whiplash” and the critically beloved “La La Land”. If you’ve seen Chazelle’s work you know he’s the real deal and he lays out much of his creative vision and aspirations in this conversation. The 31 year old discusses his love of “crazy movies”, how a Miles Teller/Emma Watson version of his film (which nearly came to be) would have differed, and how a phone call from JJ Abrams changed his career.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Jeep is a registered trademark of FCA U.S. LLC. Hey guys, and welcome to happy, sad, confused. This week, we ring in 2017 with two talents just getting started in their respective careers. Janelle Monet is already a music superstar, but now she's proven to be an actor to be reckoned with, thanks to two stellar performances in moonlight and hidden figures. And there's no filmmaker with a brighter future than Damien Chiselle, the man. behind Whiplash and a fantastic new musical Lala Land. Join us on this first episode of 2017.

I'm Josh Horowitz, and alongside me is Sammy. Hi. It's a new year, Sammy. We did it. We're still alive. Assuming. Welcome to the show, guys. Welcome to another year of Happy Sank and Fused.

Very excited to launch this year's first episode of the year, rather, with two talents. that I'm super excited to have on the show for the first time. A little bit later on, we have Damien Chazelle, who is, I think he's like 31 obnoxiously. He's like super young. Actually, I think he's about the same as Janelle. But for a filmmaker, you think of them as being a little older. And Damien is, his last two films have just been amazing. He, of course, had whiplash a couple years back with Miles Teller, won an Oscar for J.K. Simmons.

That was, I vividly remember seeing that film on the opening night of Sundance and it blew every, away. And he's followed it up with this kind of transcendent musical that so many people have fallen in love with. It's certainly either my favorite movie of the year or really close to the top. And it of course stars Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling. And it is kind of an homage to old musicals of the past. And we're going to get into a lot of his influences and his thought process behind making. He likes music. Clearly. He's into music. Likes his jazz. So yeah, we'll get to at Damien in a second. But speaking of music, this first guest on the show today is somebody you know probably mostly for their musical career, Janelle Munet.

Janelle Monet. So cool to have her in. She has had a banner, she had a banner 2016, thanks to two films, her very first two films. That's got to be said. That's amazing. Yeah. It's hard to think of another actor that started their career in such a fine fashion. Her first film was Moonlight, which we've done covered a ton on this podcast and justifiably so she's fantastic in it she shares a lot of screen time with mehershala ali and you know if you don't know about moonlight by now where have you been it's basically you haven't been listening to happy side confused that's for sure no but it's um you know it's probably the most critically praised film of the year um and really captures this kind of slice of life this outsider this boy who kind of we see in three different

stages of his life as he um you know feels like he's on the outs and is maybe not welcomed by his community and people around him. And Janelle was a huge part of that film. She also is in a new movie called Hidden Figures, which is kind of a bigger movie. It's a more mainstream kind of Hollywood movie, but a real crowd pleaser. When I saw it, I was like, okay, this is going to make a ton of money because it just works. It tells a story of three, primarily three mathematicians who, African American women, this is a true story, who basically helped get Americans in space.

I couldn't believe this was a true story. It's fascinating. Yeah. It was incredible. It's incredible. And she's really great in it. She pops off the screen, as do all performers, Taraji P. Henson and Octavia Spencer. Oh.

Yeah. What a trio. Are you kidding me? I'm dead serious. And you throw in Kevin Costner in there. You got something for everybody. He's the cherry on top. So, Janelle was kind enough to come by the podcast studio to chat about this amazing year.

And just also her attitude about art and, And she's just like a very positive, poised artistic force. You feel like, you know, smarter around her because she kind of just, you know, she exudes, I don't know, positivity and a great attitude. And, you know, she's someone to really, I think, watch in whatever artistic field she pursues. She's clearly already conquered music and she's well in her way in acting. So great to catch her in this kind of cool moment in her life. And I hope you guys enjoy this first conversation on the other side. As I said, we're going to have one of the best new filmmakers out there, Damien Chiselle.

But for now, check out Moonlight, check out Hidden Figures, and enjoy this conversation with Janelle Monet. Anything to say, Sammy? I love her. This is going to be great. I'm sorry, I asked. It is good to see you again, Janelle. Thanks so much for coming in today. Oh, great to see you, too.

Thank you for having me. Of course. I'm a huge fan of both of these films. This has become the default moonlight. podcast. We've had Mahershala on and Naomi and now you. I mean, I just love this cast. And it's great to also represent this quality film Hidden Figures, which is another amazing ensemble. So congratulations on both of them. Thank you. I feel very thankful and an honor to be a part of both families. So talk to me first of all about the fact that these are your first two films,

which is it's not supposed to go down this way, as you well know. And I know that acting is something that it's not something like you just dabbled in, oh, I'm going to try acting. This was something that seriously always was on the agenda. But that being said, this has to boggle your mind. You know how these industries work that you've gotten this kind of opportunity in this first year of acting. Just going to be a sense of where your heads at in terms of your satisfaction and happiness with how it's all kind of played out so far. Yeah, I feel like we are in a very exciting time for film and for storytelling. And a lot of people, you know, you're one of them who may know this, but I did study acting. I went to the American Musical and Dramatic's

Academy. So I've always had a deep love for theater and the arts and music. And when I read both scripts, Moonlight and Hidden Figures, I had a strong reaction. I was excited. I was moved. I think I cried several times while reading both scripts because they both deal with the other. The person who is oftentimes outcast or discriminated against because of their sexual orientation, race, gender, oftentimes uncelebrated. I mean, here you have a film Hidden Figures and 50 years later we're telling the story of these women, these mathematicians who were responsible for getting our first American. Americans into space. And then Chiron, little black boy, who was poor, you know, also searching, you know, for his sexual identity. And he had a pretty rough, rough life. And I know those stories of so many young boys like that. So to be able to support, you know, these

important stories, important stories for our culture, for humanity, to help. bring us together is just a blessing. And I'm so happy that young girls and boys of my generation and millennials will be able to have these stories and watch them. And as they're struggling and going through their own obstacles, they'll find, you know, a glimmer of hope through these characters. Can you give me a sense of sort of growing up, you grew up in Kansas City as I understand that did you feel like an outsider? Did you feel like someone that didn't fit in when you were a kid? I knew at an early age what I wanted to do. I knew that storytelling and being, using my music and art to bring people together to champion something bigger than just myself.

Like, I'm not a selfish performer. And I found that out early on that my purpose was to give. and whether that's inspiring, whether that's motivating, whether that's uplifting, whatever that is, I figured that out at an early age. And so, yeah, that made me a little different because while people were, you know, my friends were out playing or partying,

I was very serious about my craft and about music and about theater and studying and wanting to figure out how do I get out of Kansas to make sure that the rest of the world here's the messages that I have been, I guess, chosen to relate. So what did your family, your parents make of this kind of obsession, this kind of like this need to share your art and entertain, et cetera? Were they, did they relate to that on any level? I mean, they were working class people, as I understand it.

Yeah, yeah, I grew up in a very hard working class family. My mom was a janitor, her last occupation. And, you know, my father served in the armed forces. It was also a post office worker, janitor, and they wore uniforms every single day. You know, we were, you know, living check to check. And I didn't know, you know, we were considered to be in the poor class because I had a very happy upbringing. My parents never tried to force me to be anything other than what my heart desired and very supportive. breast packing up and going to talent showcases.

And I was an international Thespian, so I was competing doing monologue competitions, Shakespearean classes, writing short stories for the Cottery Theater, the Young Playwrights Roundtable in Kansas City, Kansas. They just love that I love the arts so much. They knew, as long as my grades were great, I pretty much could get away with anything. Well, I mean, it's interesting. And talking about those kind of like all these, interesting, cool early experiences, that must have been like you saw the way out. I mean,

not that you'd want to escape your environment. You probably loved where you grew up, but you also saw another world out there that you wanted to experience. And this was a way to get out there and to experience the rest of the world. Yes. I knew that education and focus and the passion for my craft was going to lead me out of Kansas. I mean, I love my hometown. so much, so many incredible people there who have helped give me to this point. However, I think it's important that kids strive to be better than their parents. You know, I think that's how we thrive as a society, how we evolve as people. If we're, you know, when we're constantly looking at our examples and trying to figure out,

How can we perfect that a little more? My parents always encouraged me to go see the world. We didn't get the opportunity to do that. You know, my mom had me at a very young age, and I'm forever indebted and thankful because she didn't have to have me. You know, it's not something that I'm owed to have this life. So if I'm going to be here, make the most of it. And not to be limited by, you know, quote-unquote society's expectations

or what they want, what they think you should be, right? And that's one of the themes I think that will resonate out of a subject like hidden figures is, you know, I mean, these young girls, African American or not, I mean, women, as you know, are not necessarily put in the math class, the science class. They're not told to this day, I think, to pursue that. And there's no justifiable reason for it. And I think part of the hope of a film like this and these kind of conversations is just to expand our minds and be a little bit more open.

into possibility. Yes, I think it's so important that young girls specifically go see hidden figures, you know, bring your girls to go see hidden figures because there is at a young age a push on us oftentimes, not with every young girl, but to use our beauty, you know, to get ahead. We're objectified at an early age. And I love the arts, and I will say that I personally stop, pursuing math and science, even though I wanted to be an astronaut. Mae Jemison was my hero. So for me, I think it's just important that all girls, boys, human beings at a young age, know their options. And if you want to be in STEM, it shouldn't be looked at as a negative or an uncool thing.

I mean, these women got our astronauts into space. Without the help of Catherine Johnson, Mary Jackson, Dorothy Vine, and the human computers, as they were called, or the colored computers, as they recalled during that era, we would not have achieved that extraordinary mission, you know. Come on, you talk about something that had never been done before, putting a man in the rocket and shooting him up to space. You know, mathematicians, scientists, engineers did that. So, you know, that's why we have such great history because of people like them. And I think that we constantly need to keep pushing the importance of having young girls join STEM because it's declining.

I can only imagine the amount of satisfaction you got out of participating in a project like this, having read up on you in that you were like a sci-fi geek growing up. I was. And I mean, that's not surprising looking at some of the titles and subject matters of your work. Yeah. Give me a sense of sort of like when that kicked in. What were you into? Because I feel like this is a subject we can bond over.

What were you into? Yeah, I've always been a sci-fi geek nerd. I mean, it started really with Twilight Zone. And my grandmother and I would watch it all the time because we live with my grandmother for a while. So when my mom was at work or she was out, that's what we watched on her black and white TV. And I just remember writing stories about aliens coming and knocking on my grandmother's door because she was such a giving person. Like you could rob 10 banks and if you apologize, my grandmother would let you eat at the table. She was such a forgiving spirit, you know, Christian woman, sometimes to a fault she gave.

And I just thought it was interesting to think about what it would happen if aliens really did come to Kansas, knock on our door. Well, my grandmother let them in. So I was one of those kids who were right stories about that. Gotcha. And be fascinated with it. Of course, I, you know, as I got older, I started to get more and more into science fiction. So movies like The Matrix, of course, Star Wars.

I then got deeper into sci-fi, and I started to read up on Fritz Lang's Metropolis, the godfather of science fiction. You know, this German expressionist film, it was silent, but clearly it spoke out to me. It was just dealing with the haves and the have-nots, the oppressed, and the oppressor. And that's a story that we still can relate to in these times. So I just felt so much a wealth of inspiration. from Fritz Lang, you know, I'm into shows right now, like Black Mirror, Westworld. I was going to say, Westworld, oh, my gosh, one of my favorites.

Yeah, I mean, I just love the possibilities in the future. You know, it's limit possibilities. I mean, you can solve for certain problems in medicine through science fiction. You know, it's thinking forward, and I think we have to think about the future and how we can make it better for the next generation. Did you catch the new Blade Runner? trailer? I did not. When did it come out? Did it just come? I've been following it, though. Just in the last day. See, I've been so busy. I cannot wait to see that trailer. And then I heard that one of my favorite Sam Esmail, who did Mr. Robot, that's one of my favorite shows.

What is he developing up? Metropolis, right? Yes. Call me, Sam. Nobody knows about Metropolis that's acting more than me. I'll tell you that right now. So I'm excited about that show, that series. And I'm ready to also see African-Americans. in the future in more sci-fi roles, not just the sidekick, but leading roles. So I'm excited about being a part of that wave. This is HappySack and Fused. We'll be right back after this.

The Jeep Wrangler 4xE. It's electrified. Boogie-woogie-woogie-woogie up a mountain over creeks or boogie-woogie-woogie through a desert where you get bit by a pit viper. So you boogie-woogie-woogie back to camp and ask your friends if they'll suck the snake venom out. When they say, no, you boogie-woogie-woogie to the nearest hospital for a dose of anti-venom.

And boogie-woogie-woogie your way to a full recovery. They electrify Jeep Wrangler 4xE. Learn more at jeep.com. Jeep is a registered trademark of FCA, U.S. LLC. So have you, you know, we talked a little bit about sort of diving into acting in a serious way in the last year with these two films. What had been coming down the pike for you in recent years? Had you been pursuing acting? Had there been offers that.

were just not interesting to you because there's some traps for, you know, musicians, quote, unquote, turned actors that I'm sure you were aware of that you wanted to avoid. Just give me a sense of sort of like what opportunities were there that maybe weren't excited for you at the time. Yeah, I mean, I had been sent scripts, lots of really cool movies and roles. For me, I'm the type that I'm the type of person that I, when I get involved in something, I'm passionate about it and I want to give him my full devoted time. I stopped working on my album I was working on for four years to film Moonlight and Hidden Figures. And as an actor, someone who studied acting and when I got into music, I didn't take on any acting roles because I wanted people to focus on me as a recording artist.

I didn't want any distractions or confusion about what I was focused on, what I was most passionate about. So I've done the same thing with film. I have not focused on music, even though I can do both and I will be doing both. But I did want people to focus in on me as an actor and know this is something serious. You know, these roles are not, they were not given to me. I auditioned for them. And it's important that we keep the focus on hidden figures in Moonlight and I'm not promoting an album at the same time. And, you know, I never like how that comes across.

And so I tried to make sure that when it was time for me to get into films, that I, one, believed in what it was that I was doing and that I had time to really focus in on just the film. Yeah, one gets the sense in hearing you talk here today and reading about you. This isn't about, you know, extending the brand. This isn't a calculated thing as great as it might be for your career in the end. This comes from a true artistic place. need to express yourself in different ways. Yeah. And I say this a lot. I've never looked at myself as just an actor either or just musician. It's storytelling for me. I consider myself an artist

storyteller and I want to continue to tell these untold, unique, universal stories in unforgettable ways. And you do that through music. You do that through film. And so that is just about timing too. You know, when timing and preparation happens, what do they say? You know, you know, You successfully are able to get something done. So combining a couple of the topics we've discussed already, it seems inevitable, whether it's Metropolis or something else, we need to get you into a sci-fi project. Yeah, I think it's going to happen. We have some scripts in-house with my company, Wonderland Productions, Emotion Pictures Productions, and we have some incredible writers. So we'll be taking meetings and getting those off the ground.

But again, I just love the art form. I love science fiction. I think there's just so exciting to think about, you know, the near future and what can happen. And sometimes we can improve on the human race if we put it in sci-fi. If we put some of the things that are going on now in the future, all of a sudden, we all start looking around and we're like, yeah, we need to change some things. We need to change some things because we don't want to live in a dystopian future. You know, we can save it. Well, yeah, as you know, and you reference something like Black Mirror, the best sci-fi reflects kind of the issues that we're wrestling with in our time, even if it takes place in the future.

Yes. So talk to me a little bit about, okay, so Moonlight you shot first, as I understand, right? Yeah, I'm in October 2015. Okay. So, as I said, a huge fan of that one. Anybody that hasn't seen it must see it. You've heard the buzz by now. It's just a remarkable piece of work and amazing performances to route, including you and you share most of your scenes with Mahershula.

Who's just remarkable. He's just so, man. He's just so dynamic and such a great person, you know, incredible actor, too. He's one of the, I said this in when he was in here, was like, after I saw the film, I walked out of that theater, just like so excited also, frankly, for him. He's one of those actors you've seen in other films, and you're like, oh, he got the role. No one more deserving. Yeah. So talk to me about just, like, being there first day on set.

I mean, you've probably dreamed about this and, like, said, okay, I'm going to get there on my own time at some point. But you're in this, you know, Barry Jenkins is the role. directing mehershala's opposite you um did you feel nervous what was what was going through your head oh yeah i had some moments of of feeling nervous because mahertula is so um magnificent and all that he does and i was a huge fan um of his work um house of cards you know he Benjamin button and this was my first film so um i had you know pretty normal nervous uh bits that happened. But I had such an incredible director with Barry Jenkins. I remember him telling me when I got on set, he said, hey, listen, Janelle, there's no such thing as making a mistake.

As long as you're being truthful and honest with every moment, every decision is the right way. And so I just relaxed in that. And every moment that I have with Mahershula or Shireone, little Alex or Ashton, who's phenomenal to very gifted actors. I think they're going to have a long career in the acting world. Whenever I had a scene with them, I just spoke to them in a pure, honest way. You know, like I would speak to a nephew or a cousin. Right. Because I know these characters in my personal life.

So it was just, it felt like family, you know. Does the reception to that one to Moonlight exceed even your wildest expectations? I mean, like, you knew it was, it was, you obviously respond with the material. You said you cried when you read it. But the fact that, I mean, when it opened. it had this crazy per screen average and the reviews are insane and like it's going to clearly get a ton of awards attention already is um that's just got to i guess validate what you saw in the script but give me a sense of sort of just what it feels like to see this kind of resonate in the

broad way it is which is it's a very particular story it's a specific story and the fact that it is resonating broadly is is amazing yeah i think for me i've always followed my heart you know whether it be in music whether it be in you know attending the performing art school writing a song, I go, I go with my heart, I go with my soul clock. You know, I work on that time. And like I said, when I read that script, I said, this is the one. This is, culture needs this, you know, humanity needs this. This film is going to bring people together.

This film is going to highlight our nuances, our complexities, our, um, it's going to show, it's going to humanize. us on screen in a way that we had not seen before. Absolutely. You know, we know the drug dealer, but we don't know the drug dealer mentor. You know, we don't know the story behind the crack at it and why she, who Naomi just killed that role, her playing Sharon's mom. What kind of person was she?

You know, the way Naomi plays her, she humanizes her. Chiron is humanized. He's not just, it's not just about, you know, his sexuality. It's about him a coming of age. It talks about, you know, mass. What are we saying about masculinity? What kind of pressure are we putting? It asks a lot of questions.

It doesn't beat you over the head. And I think that is the great art. Some of my favorite artists, whether it be musicians or filmmakers when they just ask questions, that's when I'm most impressed and I'm drawn in. I don't like things to beat you over the head. And, you know, I just followed my heart. and I'm so happy that it's touching so many people's hearts, you know, not just African-American people.

Because this is all African-American cast. It's touching everyone, you know, young, old, Christian, non-Christian, atheist, white, black, Hispanic, you name it. I've seen so many people write in and come up to me and talk to me about how moved they were from this film. And, again, I just think that we need these human stories to bring us together. We've all felt like the outsider. We've all looked for love that hasn't been available to us.

we've all felt out of place. And those are the themes that I think resonate with everybody. Absolutely. So something like Hidden Figures, which we've already talked about a little bit, but I'm curious, like one of the cool things about this film that occurred to me. I mean, so it's you, it's Octavia Spencer, Taraji P. Henson, this amazing ensemble. Frankly, like a group of African-American women leading a film is, like, how many times do we see that, A, in a studio film that's not, frankly, like, a broad comedy or like a, like a,

sexual thriller or something like this is this is just a mainstream movie that is a crowd pleaser um and that should be acknowledged and and we should be excited about i think i mean that that must have occurred to you as you're on set because this is a it's a different scale filmmaking it's a studio film etc um give me a sense again the pride for sure oh i'm so proud i mean these are three african-american female protagonists you know not just one smart best friend And all three of these women are brilliant mathematicians. I go on to become my character, Miss Mary Jackson, the first African-American female aerospace engineer at NASA.

And my character wasn't trying to be the first black woman engineer. She simply wanted to be an engineer. She knew that she had the brain to do it. And she wanted to maximize her full potential. But what's so important about this film, not just on screen you have these black women who, of course, are beautiful, but they're being celebrated for their brilliance. And that's rare that we are celebrated for being smart.

I think it's so important that we send that message out that we, in Hollywood, and I don't consider myself Hollywood. I'm just, again, a storyteller artist, but that we are saying this is important. You know, these values are still important, and we're going to put our money up to show how important they are. So I think that's really cool, and that makes a great statement, and it makes me excited about uncovering more hidden figures. These women went through so many obstacles, but the great thing about this movie, especially during these times, they did not allow that to deter them. You know, you talk about sending a man into space, and you're a woman, a black woman, and you don't even have the right to vote. your brothers and sisters are being lynched

by the way they look at a white person these women were brave going in every day and I just applaud NASA for being so progressive because they were hiring minorities and women during a time where it was not popular to do that so they didn't have the agency that we I have today I have freedom of speech and for my character to petition the courts

and fight for her right to the American dream that's all they want it they believe that everyone you They have broad perspectives. They believe that everyone had a right to the American dream and had a right to equal opportunity and equal footing. I'm curious because, you know, as you sit here in front of me today, and I've noticed this in the last time we spoke and seeing you in other interviews, et cetera, is you have such poise and such like it seems like aware with all of like who you are and your place and like there's no like you're not being defined by anybody else. Like you've certainly, you know, people talked about your style and your and your art. in terms of like just charting your own path and not, you don't feel like a product of somebody else,

some of a boardroom figuring out what Chanel Monet is. I mean, I mean, I guess this goes back maybe to the early stuff we were talking about, but I just give me a sense of like where do you think that comes from. Like, is that family? Is that upbringing? Is that just some God-given whatever it is? Wow. Well, thank you.

You know, again, I just love being an artist. And I'm thankful for creativity. I'm thankful to have an outlet and I'm thankful that I have a choice, you know, in my career. There are certain communities where things are decided for them. And I'm just happy that I get the opportunity to decide what it is that I want to do every day I wake up. Was there a path that you didn't go down at some point, a choice, a compromise that you could have made that you feel like was a big turning point? Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, I, and I have so much respect for everyone working every single day and then taking that leap and not working for anybody else and saying I'm going to start my own company.

Right. Yeah, I mean, I worked at amazing jobs like Office Depot. I was a maid before. Yeah, I had to pay my way through college. I worked at Blockbuster. I worked as a waitress. I worked at Sam's Club. I mean, I, you know.

You put in a lot of work. I remember living in a boarding house with six other girls. You know, selling my independent CDs on the library steps and giving performances in the dorm lounges in the AUC, the Atlanta University Center in Atlanta. And I've worked when I look at it. You know, I don't look at it as work because, when you're passionate and you love what it is that you do, you're just excited about the journey.

And I'm still excited about the climb. And that's what I'm most thankful for. I'm not trying to be number one. That's not my business or my intentions. It's just to enjoy the climb, enjoy the experiences, experience these moments with people I love, because I believe that experiences are better shared with the people you love. If my mom and my family members and my friends can't be here as I'm, you know, promoting this film or going to the premiere of Hidden Figures,

then it's really not worth it for me. You know, and I know that we're all unborrowed time. I figured that out in an early age, and I think when your heroes pass on and they go to a different frequency, things come into perspective even more. And so I just want to make my time here on Earth worthwhile and to create a blueprint for other young and upcoming artists

who have felt or who have been told no, because of their gender, because of their race, because of their dreams. I just want people to know that your dreams are valid, and you don't have to take the same coordinates to reach the same destination. Your Twitter icon is Prince. Yes. And I know he was someone that, what you counted as a friend. You know, I mean, he's been so influential in so many artists' lives.

You know, it's a big question, but I am curious sort of like how he influences you to this day, how he was a guidepost for you, how he remains so. day? It's difficult to put into words what someone like that means. Before I met him, he was a musical hero. I felt like he was a part of my DNA. And when I had the opportunity to have a relationship with him, he invited me to his place to jam.

And he just wanted to connect. with me, artist to artist, and he's been a mentor to me in so many ways, like a musical father figure. I just can't express how thankful I am to have known him, to have laughed with him, to have had so many beautiful moments with him, you know, it's always difficult for me. And I just, I just wish that the world, that's my biggest, the saddest thing is that not everybody got the opportunity to experience such a giver. Yeah. I mean, he, when I tell you, this, this man gave so much quietly.

And he never allowed his mystery to get in the way of his giving spirit. He passed down so many, so much information. And I don't think as an artist, I would, I would, I would. be you spoke about you know how um confident you know you don't prince prince affirmed a lot for me he he would always let me know when i was doing a great job and how proud he was me of me and that's why i can walk so confidently and you talk about kind of the personal relationships whether it's family or friends and and the people you meet on these journeys i mean i noticed you you You spent some time with President Obama the other day.

And, I mean, I don't know if you showed the film to them or not, but there was a great ceremony. I saw the amazing photo of Octavia losing her mind in the best possible way. So beautiful. You've probably met them a couple times by now. You performed for that, my right? Yes. And talk about just a leader. Yeah.

You know, this man has done so much for this country. And history will show this as well. He's done so much for women, women in STEM as well. He's such a forward thinker and a broad thinker. You know, he's for all people. And not just the 1% as we know, but he's helped a lot of minorities. He's just parted over, you know, hundreds of people from prison on, you know, his criminal justice reform program and his dedication to just being on the right side of history is so

remarkable and the first lady as well. I mean, she's done so much to help educate young girls, 62 million girls. That's been her mission to get them education and I've been helping and her reach that goal. Both of them are just good human beings, you know, and they want the best and they've helped move this country forward. And I'm just so happy that I had the opportunity to perform and help campaign and, you know, early on in his presidency. And I'm forever indebted and just thankful that they're waking up every single day trying to figure out how can we help bring people together. You know, how can we build a bridge, not a wall? And they're like that, you know, behind the scenes and in front of in front of the scene. I mean, you're clearly

passionate as they are and just also in terms of just frankly, at its root, making the world a little bit of a better place. And you alluded to some interesting issues early on, which is like young women to the stay, you know, especially in entertainment industries, or just generally defined by their sexuality in terms of just how they're expected to dress and carry themselves in relation to other men. I'm curious for you, as someone who's, like, grown very successful and gained this degree of celebrity, do you feel like sexism, racism is mitigated at all as you kind of gain more, quote, unquote, power?

Do you feel that kind of stuff touching you in your, in your, because you're, you're in a rarefied position? You're obviously in a privileged position, but I would imagine that these things still in your day-to-day, you see it and you feel it. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I'm a businesswoman, so I have to go in a lot of these rooms, and I'm the minority. You know, there are no women and no women of color, barely. I started an organization because of this issue, and it's called FEM the Future. And FEM the Future is led by progressive millennials, grassroots, progressive millennials who will be helping advance the careers of more women in music, in film, in media, in tech.

And on the music side of things, I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there are female producers, music producers. Since music has existed, only six women have been nominated, and that's the Brits and the Grammys combined. None of these women, no woman has ever won an award for music production. Wow. And I think that's sad. And I know that there are women out there, like Grimes, like there's so many FCA Twigs.

There's so many women who have contributed to music. and film, you know, if you even think in the film world, how many music, how many film producers are women, you know, even directors? Yeah. You know, you can count on our hands, right? So for me, it's about letting, pulling together our collective voices and letting our collective voices be heard. We're here.

You know, I think that we have to actively film the future. If you walk into a boardroom or a room in film or in music or whatever it is, any company and the male to female ratio is more in, favor of the male, you have to fom the future. You have to hire more women. You have to include us in these conversations. The world is better. If you think about NASA, if they didn't have those women in those rooms, John Glenn would not have made it to space. We would not have made it on the moon without Catherine and all the women, the human computers, because men didn't want those jobs. They looked at those as secretarial positions. It was the women who did the math and the

work to get us into space. So when we're at it, we achieve the extraordinary. Without us, we degraded. We don't, we don't move forward. Yeah. So we have to just know that, breathe that and feel that. And I know that. I've experienced it before and I'm still experiencing it. Well, adding you to the podcast today has made this podcast better. Thank you. So there's evidence to that. I'm such a fan of yours and it's been so thrilling to get to see you in these two remarkable films, performances, and I hope this is the start of a great acting career. I know it is. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for your support. I really appreciate it. As a, as, you know, as a fellow ally, it's important that we come together. And no matter, you know, at the end of the

day, we all bleed the same color. And I think that's what these films remind us. We need each other. Absolutely. You know, we really honestly do. And then we have to stop being so hard on each other as well, you know, because we're all the part of the American story. The human and raise only one race, the human race. So let's run it together. There you go. Moonlight, Hidden Figures. Check it out.

Janelle Monet, thanks for stopping on. Thank you so much. Remember to go check out Moonlight and Hidden Figures starring Janelle Monet. Okay, moving on, guys. Our next conversation of Happy Say I Confused is Damien Chazelle. This is a filmmaker. I mean, to say he's on the rise is a little disingenuous because he's already risen. I was going to say he's there.

He's there. You know, whiplash and now La La Land, La Land is the film everybody's been talking about for months and it's now out in theaters. It stars Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone. It's going to get a slew of Oscar nominations and it very well may take the top prize. And Damien is, you know, he's a very, you know, like Janelle in some ways, like very poised and kind of belies his years. He seems like an old soul and like his influences, in fact, are, you know, he doesn't reference. 80s movies or 90s movies. He references, you know, 40s and 50s, you know, European films. Like, he's a smart dude. And I was thrilled to have him on this show because this movie is fantastic from its opening sequence on the freeway to its bittersweet climax. We don't want to spoil anything. But he certainly knows how to end a movie. I don't know.

Remember the end of Whiplash, too? That, like, crazy, like, 15 minutes sequence. Yeah. Yeah. And in a similar way, I think. This movie was, oh. Right? Incredible.

Favorite scene in the film? Do you have a favorite? It's interesting. It's a musical, because I saw it again over the weekend, and this is not a criticism. It doesn't have a ton of musical numbers. It has like seven or eight, I think. But they come at, like, the right times. Yeah, the scene, the two, the ending is amazing.

And then the scene where they're walking out of the party and they start. It's kind of like when they start to fall for each other. Yeah. Some nice. I put tap shoes on and I'm like, here we go. This was made for me. I'm ready. Thank you, Davian Chazelle.

Any movie with a tap seam, like, in. It's a, you know, and people have said it. It's kind of cliche to say, but it's true, I think, you know, in these times when, like, it feels like the world is crashing and then collapsing around us. It's good to have a really solid piece of entertainment that makes you feel good and, you know, has some song and down. There's a lot of nods to Crazy Stupid Love. Yeah, it's basically a shot-for-shot remake. A lot of Easter eggs for the Crazy Stupid Love film.

And Gangster Squad, their other collaboration. Oh, my God. This is their third. Wow. Yeah, it's the beginning of a long and beautiful friendship. All right. You don't want any more? You good with it?

Okay. Quit while you're ahead, according to Sammy. This is it. This is the last Emma Stone, Ryan Gosling movie. Sorry, guys. For like 40 years. And then. It's so poignant.

Yep. That's right. It'll be a Nancy. Myers film. Oh my god, never mind. I'm out. Okay, speaking of great filmmakers like Nancy Myers, here's Damien Chazelle, a filmmaker with a very bright future. And really the future is now, thanks to a movie like Walloland. Go check it out and enjoy this conversation. Thanks for making the time today. I'm a huge fan of this one. Does that get tiring to hear from people being like, this movie, I'm in love with this movie. This movie has changed my life. I mean,

I guess that doesn't get less important for a filmmaker to hear, but does something get diluted in the process of hearing that over and over again over a couple months? No, no, not all, because it always remains slightly shocking and bracing in the moment. So it kind of, I don't know, it certainly hasn't gotten old yet. I'll tell you that. I mean, it'll never get old, but it hasn't lost its, no, it hasn't felt diluted. Well, it is a curious thing for a filmmaker, and you've experienced the, especially on the last two films where you go from kind of like zero to 60 right like i mean i remember

i was at sundance when wood flash premiered that night and suddenly you have this kind of secret thing or whatever that people just very few people have seen and then all of a sudden everyone's talking about it and a very similar kind of phenomenon happens on the la la land um can you give me a sense of like do you like do you have dreams and nightmares going into a premiere like what what are expectations nothing terrifies me more than any screening you know um but certainly certainly if it's the first or one of the first times you're ever showing it to an audience that that night at sundance i was terrified and and i i don't think professionally i've ever been as terrified as i was when um when we premiered this movie because this movie this movie had taken so long to get made you know it had been kind of swirling through my head for six years you know and so when you talk about that kind of idea of a movie being this like until you show to the world this kind of private thing that only a few people know about this movie definitely really felt like that i mean for five or six years, it felt like only four or five people knew about it. And then, you know, once you make it, obviously everyone you're making it with is part of that

group. But it never lost that sense of feeling deeply personal, deeply private, deeply kind of, I guess, fragile as well, the way that something's that intensely private feels. You know, I had just no idea how the world would respond. And with a musical, you really are kind of going out and wearing your heart on your sleeve. Absolutely. So what is the fear then beyond just like the quote bad review or bad reception? Like what is there a specific like reception or response that you were worried about getting with this one? Yeah. No, there's always the nightmare scenarios, you know, of like, like, you know, mass exodus from the theater and, you know, seat flaps, you know, going so loudly that you can't hear the dialogue. and, you know, and then devastating critiques and, you know, yada, yada.

I mean, it kind of the nightmare scenarios can extend from the plausible to the probably not plausible, but everything seems equally plausible and equally terrifying on the eve of like a big premiere, for me at least. What's the high point as we sit here right now? It hasn't been released to the public yet, but you have screen at festivals and you've heard from critics and you've heard from, you know, the likes of Tom Hanks talking. about how much they want this movie. That was, that was, I mean, that might be the high point. That was certainly a high point. I mean, it's, it's, I guess the high point is when, is any

variant of people connecting to the movie, right? So it's so that, you know, that can range from getting to meet like a hero of mine, like Tom Hanks, who's, you know, talking to you about your movie and has seen it and liked it. This is over a tele ride, right? That was a telluride, and that alone was, I mean, so that was pretty early in our, we had just world premiered at Venice and then just hopped over to telluride the next day. So that was really early on that was pretty bracing um but any kind of version of that of just sort of you know of having it connect with someone or connect with a group of people um which uh yeah has been

happening at these at these festivals and screenings it's uh as i said before it never stops being surprising and and and amazing so what do you what do you love or if there are things to hate in terms of movie musicals like or is there something in that i mean because there are various different types obviously and different treatments of it what are the things that you respond to what are the things that you don't respond to and then kind of the classics that we've seen over the years yeah I have a very I know I have a very sort of kind of almost strict set of guidelines for myself when it comes to sort of whether how to do a musical or the musicals that I like and the rules

that they follow and that would seem very limiting and restricting but but to me I actually think of it as you know It's not so much about rules as it's about, you know, really preserving what's at the heart of the genre, I think. And everyone has their own opinion, I think, of what's at the heart of the genre. But to me, it really is nothing more than the idea that ordinary movie grammar or movie logic gets upended by emotion. And so I think there are movies that aren't musicals that are more like musicals than some musicals are. you know i think i mean like heightened realities or it's not it's not just about heightened reality it's about it's about characters feeling so much that they that they create the reality you know um so

it's not about it's not about doing it with a wink it's about you know it's about that kind of i mean you see it in a lot of silent movies you see it in like frank porz aging movies you see it in mernow movies you see it in chaplain um and uh and of course you see it in in you know the classic musicals um But it's that idea of if you feel enough, if you are in love enough, or happy enough, or sad enough, specifically in the case of a musical, you break in a song. But to me, it's a bigger idea than that. It's the idea of, you know, what does it mean to break in a song? Well, it means that, you know, this invisible orchestra is coming out of nowhere to accompany you. It means that you are abandoning the ordinary rules of reality or movie logic, which ordinarily try to reflect reality.

sure um and so that's why to me musicals are different from just kind of pure fantasy or or uh or anything like that because musicals exist more or less in the real world but they jump a register and and that requires a huge leap for an audience it's why musicals are divisive you know and it's why uh you either go with it or you don't or exactly exactly and uh and the movies require you to make that leap and I love actually the audacity of that I fell in love with musicals when I realized that they were the most audacious mainstream movies that you could ever make. And I know umbrellas of Sherborg is a huge influence on this one, which I only watched actually just last night for the first time.

Oh, really? And it's, I wish I could watch that for the first time. When did you first see it? On a like beat up VHS tape back when I was maybe 18. Wow. So, and that was, and I talked to Emma about this when she was on the podcast too. I mean, you screen this, I think, for everybody just as a guidepost. Yeah.

This is kind of a feel of what we're trying to go for, yes? Is there anything in the modern spectrum that was as influential as that in the last 20, 30 years? Or was that really your? No, no, there is. But again, I would say, especially in the modern spectrum, I would say it wasn't musical. It wasn't musicals. No, it was movies that, again, I think revel in movies that revel in being movies and the way that musicals can allow you to do. Movies that are about taking advantage of the form, milking the medium for all it's got.

movies that feel made for a big screen not a small screen and but for me yeah i mean that's everything from from from tarantino to leos carox to you know arno de pletian to juan to wankar y to p t andersen to altman to scorsese and whatnot you know there's you know it's a wide range of uh of filmmakers and film styles um but it's that idea i guess again of like letting letting emotion, letting a certain kind of love, whether it's a love between people or love of movies themselves, letting that love just infect every frame of the movie. And again, dictate the grammar of it. These are all, you know, all the movies that I screened for the cast and crew, we started off with umbrellas of shareboard because I wanted that to like set the tone.

But thereafter, you know, I screened some other musicals, some non-musicals. But the through line to me was that they were all, when you really look at them, more or less crazy movies, like more or less mentally ill movies, because that's what I think it's all about, you know. It's about not being hemmed in by a certain kind of restraint. Well, certainly, yeah, as a fan myself, I always love an audacious failure, quote-unquote failure, more than a safe film, whether it's like Cloud Outless or Kevin Costor's The Postman. Like, I just like, go forward. If you're going to do it, just do it.

Yeah. This one, as you well know, I mean, for good or for bad, because your name is kind of become kind of a bigger thing. In recent years, we knew of different casting permutations of this, right? Yeah. So what I'm curious about is, like, this was at one point going to be with Miles Teller and Emma Watson. Was that a much different film?

Was that like a different iteration of the film? Did the casting change the content of the film for you? It did a little bit, but I mean, I think the, they, I think the one thing to maybe kind of correct about that whole, you know, You know, the whole storyline is that, you know, that iteration of the film technically only existed for like a very fleeting moment, like in the sense that the problem with this movie was that it's a two, you know, it's a whole ensemble movie. But at its core, as a love story, it's a two-hander. And so you have to find what that balance is. And we kept, it kept feeling like we were sort of like, you know, it was almost like whack a mole where you'd like, you know, you solve one problem and it creates another problem.

So in our case, we'd cast one role just as the other role would drive. drop out or scheduling would dictate that something had to change or whatever. And then we'd go and, you know, refill that role just as the other role that we thought we had in the tank would, you know, change on us as well. So it was this constant and, you know, it's nobody's, it's nobody's fault. I still remain, you know, I'm a huge fan of Emma Watson and Miles Teller. I had just one of the best times in my life working on Whiplash with him. He's a phenomenal actor and I hope to work with him again down the line.

So it was much more this kind of happenstance of a movie that took six years to get made and went through lots of different not just casting permutations, but financing permutations, budget permutations. This was originally budgeted as a $1 million movie and we made it for $30 million. So yeah, it was that sort of iteration was, you know, as you can imagine, a slightly younger version of the characters, which was a little closer to how I first. wrote the script in like 2010, 2010, 2011, where Ryan and Emma were on my mind. But again, Ryan and Emma at that age, you know, so that's about six years ago. So once today's Ryan and Emma came on, we did do some shaping of the characters to age them up a little bit and add some backstory and kind of suit it to who they are now a little more. You're listening to Happy, Sad, Confused. We'll be right back after this.

One of the consistencies in, especially in the last two films, is you're excelling with, I mean, throughout the entire narrows, but you end with some really powerful sequences at the end of both of your films. How early in the process do you think of the ending? Do you, is that something that's helpful to kind of like build to? And can you talk a little bit about just the importance of ending a film in the right way? Yeah, I mean, I think it is something I think about a lot. is it's it's I mean I guess I approach a lot of movies just as imagining myself as the audience you know and what what are the movies that have that have shaped me the most what are the movie going experiences again if you think of it as as an art form really designed for a theater and a theatrical experience what are those experiences that have touched me the most and I do think it's important to kind of I think in a weird way the the the most important things in any movie are the you know two seconds of right as the lights, you know, two or three seconds right as the lights come down, the first sound or image that you see that's going to set the tone for the entire film, and then the last

couple seconds that you leave with. And I forget, you know, I think it might have been Howard Hawks or someone who said some, you know, more eloquent variation of that, you know, that in order to be a good movie, it's got to have a, you know, good opening, good ending, and then just no bad scenes right um or it's like three good scenes no bad scenes um but the you know that idea that you kind of uh you you you know obviously you want a whole movie to be a kind of continuous experience but to really be thinking of it like a like a like something that has ebb and flow and that has to have rhythm and that has to kind of cascade and so you really have to think about what are you what are audiences sort of you know uh what's the way

that is kind of, you know, going to be kind of carrying the audience out of the theater once the movie ends. And yeah, that's sort of, in some ways, the most crucial thing. Sure. Can we talk going back a little bit just growing up, the first couple films that really just blew your brains out in terms of just like made you, you know, think of it as an art form, think of it as something to even, whether it was something you wanted to pursue or just something that was special to you. Yeah, I mean, I think the, my earliest memories of, I mean, I've wanted to do, to movies since I can remember but but I began my kind of way into movies as like a you know little little little kid was drawing and watching Disney movies and wanting to be Walt

Disney basically so I have you know very vivid memories of watching Cinderella on VHS and seeing the little mermaid in the movie theater and seeing Peter Pan in the movie theater and and and just the kind of I guess something about those colors, especially, that color palette of some of those Disney animated movies and also just the mix of music and emotion just still, I think has never quite left me entirely. I don't think of them as children's films. I think of them as just great films, period. But I sort of became partly as a result of those movies, just a voracious movie watcher and movie lover. And certainly when I comes to musicals you know i was a little bit later to sort of really fall fall in love with musicals but um but some of those early fred and ginger movies swing time and top hat you know kind of watching those for the first time in in their entirety um was just was really eye-opening and then and then going back to rewatch singing in the rain which i'd seen as like a kid and you know

i guess enjoyed because i thought you were supposed to enjoy it but hadn't you know it hadn't cut through to me and then just being a little bit older kind of being a little more excited about the idea of a musical and watching it again and and realizing that it's just the most perfect joyful movie ever made you know and um umbrella shareborg is also in that category so so certainly i mean you know this movie la la land is definitely informed by a lot of kind of key you know mind-blowing experiences that i've had uh watching a film Did growing up, and I know you had some, you know, you were credited as a screenwriter on 10 Cloverfield Wayne, like did, did genre, did whether sci-fi or action or whatever, have a strong influence on you as a kid? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I loved, I mean, I think part of the reason why between my Disney period and my musical period, I was not, you know, I wasn't watching musicals that much, was because I really liked movies where, you know, people got killed and monsters, eight people and stuff like that.

So I think, no, so I, I loved, and still do love genre film. And, you know, I think Hitchcock and Spielberg and people like that, it was just, in a way, again, I now don't think of it as that different from making a musical. It's the same sort of basic conception of cinema, which is as a vehicle for emotion. and to try to, you know, not just passively tell a story, but to try to really kind of immerse an audience into that story and produce an emotional reaction that's hopefully, you know, hopefully overwhelming. Right. You know, whether it's to make them afraid or make them sad or make them happy, I really kind of like the idea of movies creating a really tremendous overwhelming emotional reaction.

And hopefully the challenge then is to get at that without having to resort to cheap tricks without having to kill a kitten. Right, right. I'm curious because like, you know, when I think of, and I read up on what people have been saying about you, especially since whiplash and this, it's like, you know, I wonder how you're kind of dealing with kind of the narrative around you. I mean, you're still a very young guy. And I think back to like when, and that Shyamalan, you know, like had his first few films and Newsweek put him on the cover and it was the next Spielberg, right? And similar kind of superlatives have been assigned to you at this age. And I'm curious, like, do you look at sort of the arc of other filmmakers' careers in terms of helping dictate dictate your own choices and seeing sort of the pitfalls and the right ways to go for a young filmmaker? Or is it all kind of just instinct?

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a little bit of both, you know, because at the end of the day, you can only be yourself. I, I, but I, yeah, I love movie history, you know, so I just kind of, I, I, I, I've read up on all the sort of great directors careers or directors who admire in their, their careers and, and, and if you do that, you can't help, but sort of, you know, compare yourself as the benchmarks of your life, pass, you know, and find that you're always coming up short in some way. another so um orson wells is always the jerk in that equation that ruined it for everybody that guy's such an asshole just really ruined it for us all right from the start he created a real complex for filmmakers ever since 1941 we've still been dealing with that and then dealing with the end of a life that maybe didn't end as happily as most filmmakers would want it to it's right right spectrum yeah no he um it's yeah his career does cast like this this immense shadow over i think every director, no matter what style that's come since.

But I think it's, and again, it's sort of looking at people's careers, it's also, it's also obviously, you know, trying to learn from them and, you know, and sort of engage in what they're doing and their style. And I've always kind of loved that idea, and again, this is another case where I'm going of misquote someone or misattribute a quote, but I think it was maybe Godar or someone who, or no, maybe it was about Godar. Anyway, they were talking about Breathless and this idea that, you know, breathless was kind of trying to be a, was, you know, those French New Wave guys trying to do a, you know, Warner Brothers gangster kind of movie and completely failing at it.

Right. And the failure is breathless. You know, and so, you know, the idea that you, you, to be something but at the end of the day you're oh you're gonna be and actually you hope you're going to be yourself right now and that and that and that and that you could perceive that as a lack of matching something or a failure of some kind but but but that's where actually the real you know interesting stuff happens true i mean the general like it seems like the way hollywood is built is to replicate past successes and you as an artist and as a filmmaker that's the last thing you want to do is to right you never want to replicate you want to you want to you want to want to innovate or yeah you want you want you want to learn from and engage with the history of of

the medium film has a really rich history even at a still very young age um but i think it's it's by being aware of that history that you can properly push it forward sure you can find you can find you can find you can find what avenues of the medium you want to update and you want to extend and what what channels of it still seem fertile and untapped so are there in terms of like the opportunities that are at your feet now i know you're developing your own I think there's this Neil Armstrong project you're still potentially working on, right? That being said, I'm sure you're getting very interesting or maybe not so interesting offers. I mean, are they are, are, is there a temptation or an interest in getting, you know, the $100 million toolkit of a franchise or even more of a, you know, if Lucas film comes, are you interested in doing a Star Wars film for the sake of getting to play in that sandbox?

I mean, I've definitely learned to, like, never see. say never because it's it's also this sort of I mean to be in any position where where you get to have any choice at all over what you do you know that's not just that's not just a matter of you know paying the bills or taking what's offered to you because it's the only thing being offered to you like which is which is still you know that that that that idea of really having to rely on on what comes in and nothing else is or what you create and nothing else because there's nothing there's no real choice and you don't have that much control over it's still it's still how I um it's you know it's how most of my career you know uh was or has been it still feels

very recent to me and very new and strange that I get to have any kind of choice you know and so so I'm cognizant of that and feel very grateful for that and so never never want to take anything for granted I mean I guess the the hope my hope is that you know as long as I for the longer that I can just make stuff I want to make, as simple as that sounds, and have the freedom to sort of make it my way, the better. But you know, you never know how long that's going to last. So you want to kind of, you really want to milk it while. Using your power for good to make the personal stuff. Yeah, you want to try to, I also think anytime you do make a movie, you want to try to make it as though it's your last movie that you're ever going to make,

you know, that to never assume you're going to get the opportunity again. Just assume, that you will be unhirable after an impermanent director jail after it and so you might as well go to town you might as well put every inch of yourself in it and be able to look at it and go okay I'll never get to make another movie but at least that that movie I made there at least reflects enough of who I am or who I was at that point that I can be I can be okay with that's kind of like what I feel like you know back in the day what Coppola was doing with all Zoetrope films back at whether places in the heart or one in the heart rather etc and they were all like audacious and maybe a paper crazy

But he was going forward. They were, again, fall into that category of crazy movies that I just, that I just, I just love. Looking back, what's the most momentous phone call that you've had in your career? Was there like one that kind of, you feel like changed the course of your professional life that you can think back to? Getting a project greenlit or a casting or something like that? I mean, do you look at like the transition with whiplash or just getting whiplash made after, after, the short or after some or after the film screened I'm curious like for you I you know I can put the narrative on you and say what I it seems like the markers but what's for in your

own head is kind of like the big transition or the big kind of like I'm a grown up filmmaker now um I think I think uh well no this certainly wasn't that but um but I do I mean I do think of like one phone call that really sort of depending on how depending on how it went could of, I like look at it as this moment where, you know, life sort of splits into two roads and it really depends which one you take and it's a phone call I'll always be grateful for for that reason. It was a phone call from J.J. Abrams when I was when I was writing at Bad Robot and I was working on what became 10 Cloverfield Lane. And there was, you know, there was some, there was talk at that point of, because I'd made this whiplash short and so

there was this kind of suddenly this opportunity to maybe to maybe have a chance to direct that film and at the same time whiplash was we were trying to get whiplash financed you know and and so like you know as you can hopefully see from the the finished film I thought you know 10 clover field lane was a really cool project and I thought and it would be an amazing opportunity but I kind of you know told me deep down that it wasn't like Like, it wasn't, that wasn't meant for me. That wasn't what I was meant to do if it was choosing between that and Whiplash, you know. And, but obviously, Whiplash was this like, this completely unassuming, like, there was nothing to say that that was going to be anything.

Again, on paper, that's the jazz drummer's script. Yeah. Academy Award nominations. And, you know, as opposed to this paramount-backed, you know, studio-backed movie. And, but I just had a feeling that someone could really crush it on Ten Clover. Field Lane in a way that I couldn't because I didn't quite have that connection. And I think that is what Dan Tractenberg wound up doing so brilliantly and elevating that movie and making it something where you can tell the filmmaker was passionate about it in the way

that great genre films are. But I just didn't have that. And yet it felt like absolutely the logical, practical, good career step thing for me to do would be to say yes, absolutely, to this opportunity and to kind of put a hold on Whiplash because theoretically I can make that any time. And JJ called me up and literally just said to me, hey, I know you're kind of grappling with these two things. But I just want to say, even though obviously I've a vested interest in 10 Cloverfield Lane,

and I think it wasn't called that at the time. And I really think it could be a really cool project. I'd love to find a way to make it work. I also think that that whiplash is going to be, you know, amazing or could be amazing. And if that's where your heart is at, you should go do that. And that's, you know, and that I'll support you either way. And that's a huge gift from another artist. To have, you know, to have someone of that stature calling me, you know, I was, you know, this kid.

And, and, you know, to have them just call me directly and just talk almost director to director as though we were peers. um was this you know that alone was a mind-blowing thing for me but the fact that he kind of gave me permission at that moment to really follow my heart um is uh was just this incredibly generous grateful thing that again i think i owe as a result a lot to just that phone call and the fact that he did that yeah and every day on all 19 days on the set of whiplash i had him to thank you could just raise your hand and be like j j abram said i should be here damn do the shot again do another Then again, I doubt Dan had much longer to shoot a, you know, Penn Cloverfield Lane. You know, that was a scrappy movie as well.

So, but it was that kind of thing where I looked back and I'm like, yeah, no, it feels like I was meant to go off and do whiplash. Dan was meant to be the one to do Cloverfield. And I feel like we both got to make the, I don't want to speak for him, but I feel like we both got to make the movie we wanted to make and the way we wanted to make it. And that's really lucky for both of us because that doesn't happen. And I just watched Whiplash the other day, and I still positively adore that film. And it's a sort of a genre film, too. I mean, really. I mean, that was kind of a, it might seem funny on paper, you know, that I was sort of, you know, that it was like a kind of, you know, like this sort of bad robot, a genre project versus a jazz drummer Sundance indie.

It plays as a thriller. But in a way, I thought of it as somewhat similar, somewhat similar projects. Yeah. Plus, you've got people quoting not quite my tempo for the next few. generations. That's insane. Well, that was the mantra of my high school experience is what I was told every every five minutes of my time on a drum kit during those years. So I, so I'm somewhat glad to pass that one on. There you go. Well, congratulations on what's an amazing start to a career and I can't wait to see what's coming up for you. And congratulations again,

specifically on Walla Land, which I know. I mean, some people have been saying like maybe a lot to put on a film, but like the world kind of needs a film like Lala Land right now. But I kind of believe that myself, and it's one that I'm going to return to a lot this season. Well, thank you. That means the world, and it's, and it's, again, it's a crazy thing to hear. It means the world, but it's, it's so surprising, again, that, you know, the movie's connecting in a way that I always dreamed of, but I, you know, couldn't really think it would. So anyway, thank you. Thanks for your time.

And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. This episode of Happy Sad Confused was produced by Michael Catano, James T. Green, Mukda Mohan, and Kashamahoevich for the MTV podcast network with additional engineering by Little Everywhere.

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Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two.

Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.