Happy Sad Confused - Jason Reitman

Episode Date: November 6, 2018

Jason Reitman just can't stop giving us to this year with not one but two exceptional films! The Academy Award nominated director of "Juno" and "Up in the Air" joins Josh on this episode of "Happy Sad Confused" to discuss re-teaming with Charlize Theron and Diablo Cody for "Tully" and directing Hugh Jackman for the first time in the political drama "The Front Runner". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Experience it in IMAX. Today on Happy Sad Confused, Jason Reitman goes political with his new film, The Frontrunner. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad Confused. I'm Josh, you're you, and Jason Reitman is the object of our attention today, the filmmaker behind the newest film starring Hugh Jackman, Vera Farminga, J.K. Simmons, a whole host of talented actors. It is the frontrunner. It is now open, I believe, in New York and Los Angeles, opening around the country, November 21st. This is a good one. This is a really good one. This one is based on the true story of Gary Hart. If you're as old as me, you might remember, Gary Hart was, in fact, the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination back in 1988. A really charismatic, interesting. political player who was brought down by an extramarital affair, a scandal back when scandals like

that, kind of the landscape shifted, and that's sort of what this film is all about. It's well worth your time. It features a great performance from our friend and buddy, our everyone's favorite person, Mr. Hugh Jackman. And it's a really interesting take from Jason Reitman, who's never directed a film quite like this before. Shades of Robert Altman. Michael Ritchie. We talk all about that in this conversation. A real pleasure to have a filmmaker who has been kind of killing it from the start. If you're a film fan like I am, you know that Jason Reitman came to prominence with his film,

Thank You for Smoking, and soon followed it up with the likes of Juno and up in the air. Most recently, this year, he directed Charlie's Theron in their second collaboration together. They, of course, teamed up on a young adult, but their newest one back, I think it was in the spring. It came out, and I think it's going to pop up on a lot of critics' year end lists. It certainly could unmind. It was a great film called Tully. If you haven't seen that, go seek that out, too. An impressive one-two punch from Mr. Jason Reitman, and a real pleasure to have him in my silly little office in New York.

What's going on? Well, it's a rainy day here in New York. It's actually election day right now. So you know more than I do about how it all turned out. But as I sit here today, I'm optimistic. So hopefully it came to pass that way. Good things happened. Let's hope. Anyway, lots of cool things that I've been up to lately that you can catch up on if you want. I've done a bunch of really fun MTV news interviews that should be popping up on MTV's YouTube page, their Facebook. And of course, if all else failed, check out my social media, Joshua Horowitz, on Twitter. I'll post the conversations there. I sat down with our friend, our obsession, Benedict Cumberbatch last week. Yes, Benedict. Benedict, I should say also, fans of my After Hour series most recently starred in one of our sketches.

And this was the first full-on, like, scripted After Hours bit I've ever done with Benedict. We shot this. I know there was a lot of conjecture online. about this, about when we shot it, because he has a different haircut. He doesn't have the mustache. He currently has, and yes, I teased it many months ago. The truth is we shot this sketch over a year ago, and it was kind of, frankly, a casualty of the craziness around his film, The Current War. The Current War was a film that was going to be released by the Weinstein Company. I don't need to tell you the story of what happened to the Weinstein Company, and the

Current War is still, you know, kind of out there in the ether. I think I don't even know if there's a release date or studio attached to it right now. Hopefully it will see the light of day sometime because it features an amazing ensemble, including Benedict. But suffice it to say, we shot this great sketch probably 13, 14 months ago, and we've been sitting on it ever since, and the time was right with his new film The Grinch. And if you have not watched it yet, it's one of my, immediately one of my favorite after hours we've ever done. He was on fire. It is, a parody, if you didn't know, of the Masterclass series. I'm obsessed with those. I've been thinking about for a while doing a parody of those trailers and those videos, and Benedict delivered so well. So check out the Benedict Cumberbatch After Hours on the Comedy Central After Hours page on Facebook, on Comedy Central's After Hours YouTube page, or again, it's on my social media too. Definitely recommend that one. We've also shot, by the way, a couple very cool new After Hours that are coming up in the next couple weeks. One, I mean, I guess I can say it.

You're listening to the podcast. You're a devoted after-hours and happy-sac-confused fan. Sam Hewann, returning to the after-hours fold. That is coming up. That should be the next one. We roll out. So keep an eye out on that. Please do subscribe to, or rather, I guess, follow the After Hours Comedy Central Facebook page,

and you won't be able to avoid it. But anyway, sorry, as I was saying, Benedict Cumberbatch. I sat down also for a conversation for MTV about the Grinch. Super fun. That should be up very soon. Also sat down with Claire Foy, who I could not love more, of course, from the Crown. And now in the girl in the spider's web, she is the new Elizabeth Sander, killing it as always. So happy for her, always a delight to talk to. And I'm also very busy with all sorts of Fantastic Beasts shenanigans, shot something with a little one of the actors in that for an upcoming after hours. Yes, keep an eye out for that. And shooting more with the

entire cast, a great, great ensemble. And this one, I've seen the film. Do not worry. I'm not going to spill the secrets here. But I was a big fan of the first Fantastic Beasts. And this one is exceptional as well. Really ends with a bang, a bit of a cliffhanger. You're not going to want to miss that. So a lot going on. A lot of good movies, a lot of good conversations, a lot of good sketches, what more can you ask for? And hopefully, as I said, by the time you listen to this, please, Lord, let the election have gone well. And if not, you can shake your head and say, well, I've got some silly Benedict Cumberbatch sketches to keep us going, getting us through the day. In the meanwhile, let's all enjoy this conversation with one of our bright young filmmakers.

I'll call him young because he's about my age, and I'm certainly sprightly and young. Mr. Jason Reitman, go check out the frontrunner when it appears in a theater near you. If you're in New York and Los Angeles, it should be, that should be right now. And if not, be patient. The film is coming to you right around Thanksgiving,

November 21st. Here's Jason. Look, it's Jason Reitman in my office. Does this approximate what you know of Josh Horowitz over the years? Does this feel right? Honestly, I didn't know quite what to expect.

Honestly, like, if there's like 10 different versions of your office, that would have been like, yeah, makes sense. Okay. But is this one of the better possibilities in your mind? Definitely. Look, I mean, if there was going to be three posters behind you, and I'm just going to read them off, you got color of money back to the future in Big Trouble Little China. And that's a great trio. I'm not going to knock that. Love the color of money.

Underrated Scorsese. 100% underrated. It's a fantastic movie. If that movie is on, I'll say this. If Goodfellas is on, I may not watch it. It's an undertaking, like you're in for two and a half hours. I know Goodfellas, it's obviously brilliant. If it's on, though, I'm not, I don't feel the neat.

If Color Money's on, I agree. I don't care if it's 3.30 a.m. I'm going to be up until 5.30. I'm watching that movie. Newman's amazing. They're all amazing. They're all. Mary Lizzie with Master Antonio.

So good. Amazing. And, like, one of the best Tom Cruise performances, and it breaks your heart with Newman, and the shooting is gorgeous. and the handling of the Midwest and the snowy streets and the mud and the old pool halls and... The ending? Ending's killer.

The ending is clearly my favorite kind of ending. It's like an ending before the ending happens. Like credits before you're like, oh, wait. Then you got Back to the Future. I mean, what more is there to say? I mean, perhaps, you know, top five screenplays ever written. Just an absolute gorgeous movie with so... Like, the economy of storytelling.

You know what the amazing thing about Back to the Future? is. Sorry, do you mind if I just monologue on here? No, this is our podcast. This is what it is. Is how little Christopher Lloyd is in it. Right. Like, Doc Brown, like, when Doc Brown and Marty McFly say goodbye to each other at the end the movie, it is absolutely heartbreaking. And you'd think they'd just spent 10 years on the Castaway Island. They've met each other like three times in real, and like, in, as far as like the movie's life goes, they've, they've had so few scenes. He literally like shows up. There's a confused hello. How are you? He sleeps over the house. He goes.

goes to the school, comes back, shows the model, and then they're like off. And, like, that's it. Well, it's probably, as you say, economical in that, like, that performance and that character is so big. And, like, as much as I love the sequels, there's more of doc in the sequels, and they're kind of bigger and broader and crazier. It's, it's, have you ever heard the original, like,

what was the log line? Like, what gave Bob Gale the idea? No, tell me. The idea was, what if you met your father in high school, would you guys be friends? You've heard of it. Yeah. Brilliant. Amazing. And it's kind of, it speaks to everything I think about filmmaking in that, it's something my father used to say.

I've ever told you my father, the story about my father showing me the show 24? No. The Keep a Sutherland show? Yeah, yeah. All right. So one day my dad gives me a call and he says, you got to come over and watch 24. Like now? Yeah, like now.

Okay. All of it? So, yeah, like literally, so I get to my car, I go to my dad's house, and he's got like a movie theater in his house, and he turns it on, and we watch. four episodes of 24, like four hours of 24. Okay. And it's great. Have you watched it? Yeah.

Yeah, it's a killer show. And he was right. It was a great show. And he loved it. And I said, why is this so good? I said, there's so many shows about terrorism. Why is this show so good? And my dad goes, this isn't a show about terrorism?

This is a show about a man trying to keep his family together. And it's like, and he said, don't confuse your location for your plot. I love it. And it was so important, and, and that's perfect on back to the future. It's got all the frosting. It's got all the bells and whistles that make it fun. Yeah. What the story is actually about.

Yeah. The reason that one is a classic and the other two are good, fun movies is what you're talking about. Time travel is a location. Right. What if you met your father in high school, would you be friends? That is what the movie is about. And the great movies know that difference. It strikes me when you give me that log on.

line go full circle this year on Tully that's a little bit of like oh are we going to talk about my movies really I couldn't help I'm not here to do that okay let's move up to big trouble in little China we'll come back to Tully big trouble in little China all right so embarrassing story I convinced my dad to take me to big trouble in little China instead of Ferris Beeler's Day off I think you should not feel any shame I mean they're both great they're both great, but Ferris for me is like... Again, kind of a perfect movie. I mean, and don't get me wrong.

I love Big Trouble in Little China. But for me, Ferris is a little more iconic. That said, and I'm not a huge John Carpenter fan. I know he's found his way deep into the heart of many movie lovers, and I almost love his music writing more than... That's what he does that. He does the tour or have you seen him in concert?

No. Oh, I may have heard. He has like a Han Zimmerian kind of concert thing. But Hans Zimmer, we could talk about it. Have you seen that? No, I haven't. What he does?

No. It's like, he's like a one-man rock band. He's like, it's amazing. Like, I've heard it's great, but it looks, it's a little like, you know, you play Coachella. I'm sure he did. Doesn't surprise me. Anyway, sorry.

Yeah, so big drum and little China. Look at that poster. How can you say no to that face? It is a great poster. It's easily my favorite film. more than the thing, more than Halloween. Yeah. And it, there's something actually genuinely haunting about that movie.

And I'm not sure if it's just because I saw it when I was a kid and it hit me at the perfect moment. Right. But I think there's a tone to it and a style to it that is genuinely haunting. Well, it also like, yeah, it hints at a larger world. It's a tip of the iceberg kind of mystery thing. Like, this is just like one corner of the strange universe that he's created. It's like, it, to use that, that, that. that stupid phrase world building

that we use all the time but it's true that I feel like I see, I'm seeing a corner of John Carpenter's weird brain in that and you're so right you just kind of crystallize something that I've felt for a while that sometimes at the Marvel Universe

I feel like I'm seeing too much it's like look at this giant world we built where there's something thrilling about a filmmaker who's going I'm going to show you, I'm just going to give you a peak and that peak is going to make you think this world is enormous.

Right. It's the, this is the worst example of that ever. But along the lines of Big Trouble in Little China, Buckaroo Banzai. Oh, yeah. Do you remember, I'll never forget when I was a kid watching, they're like running through like some facility. And I think Jeff Goldblum asks Peter Weller, what's that watermelon doing here? And Peter Weller says, it's a long story.

I'll tell you later. That's the other story. That's the world. What is that story? It's funny. All right. Bucer Banzai is a great example of every once in a while. I imagine myself having to explain to my daughter

like what this movie was and like why it came out and not just never never being able to do that like you know like I imagine her watching Buckingramed Design and being like dad like what is this like why does this exist and it's like I'm sorry I haven't it's like an armadillo like I just like there's no reason I cannot explain this creature no there wasn't in 84

there's not in 2018 um wow we could do that for 45 minutes and maybe we should uh how you doing though you just came from Savannah I think right? Yeah, I was in Savannah, which is amazing. You know, we shot the movie for a couple weeks in Savannah. We shot not only the Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C., but the Miami stuff in locations 15 minutes apart, which kind of gives you an idea of the scope of Savannah that you can have this old world charm that, you know, it's like a city that during the Civil War, I guess they almost destroyed, but there was enough wealthy people there that they, that the

army, I don't know, didn't destroy this gorgeous city. So you have this piece. into what, you know, upper-cross suburbs looked like hundreds of years ago with the Spanish mosque and all the thing. And then 15 minutes away, you got like a beach, like a, like a Florida-style like party beach. Did you ever frequent the illustrious restaurant, the Pirates House when you were in Savannah? Do you know of the Pirates House? No, I don't even know what you're talking about. You shouldn't know about this. I visited Savannah recently, like about a year or two ago. And I, when I was a kid, we would go, my parents, like, for some reason, we went on vacation to Savannah a number of times when I was a kid.

And I remember as a kid going to this restaurant called a Pirates House where like the waiters dressed up as pirates and there was like all these kitchy things in there and it made a big impact as a kid. This is the classic example of never. Never return. No.

Never revisit. No. As an adult man going back, it still exists, but it's the saddest place ever. It's like they're still dressed up as pirates but the guy is literally like, hi, oh hey, you're from New York.

I'm from New Jersey. I'm just here for a little bit playing a pirate. It was just, I know. That sounds sad. I went to a place called Trailer Park, which is amazing. And if you do visit Savannah, you have to go there. Oh, my God. They had these tacos that were, like, the taco was a taco shell was made out of pancake,

and then the inside was, like, fried chicken with, like, strawberry on it. And it is so good. And I got there, I got there, like, I landed at 11. I called to make sure they were still open. I got there, and they were still serving food. I sat down at the bar, and I just was a witness to this incredible moment where the bartender who was a really good looking dude and there was a woman sitting next to me

and she was clearly beyond tipsy and she was just like come on to the bartender just just come over just and he's like I'll text you when I get off and she's like no you're not gonna text me

come on come over the house come on and I'll come over in the morning no I'll want you to come over tonight and he just like kept going and I'm just sitting right next to her and I was like I'll have the best of all possible world you got a show and a meal Oh, see, exactly.

You were there with Hugh, the most charming man on the planet. Yes. He is, you know, to use, I mean, he lives up to every cliche that, like, you hear about, like, those kinds of people. And I guess, is it analogous a little bit to, like, Popul City Tour when you went on up in the air? You have, like, this, like, 600-pound behemoth of, like, term and wondrous, just the light in the universe next to you. I mean, they're two versions of the same thing. I mean, they're both enormous movie stars. George is just more private and is not thrilled by promoting things.

Hugh is this beacon of light that just wants to make the world happier and finds his way into kind of everybody's heart. I've never experienced anything like it. He's the hardest working actor I've ever met, the most researched actor, the most joyful, decent, loves the people in his life. Look, every Friday on set, he started doing this over a decade ago. He stops at, like, a liquor store, a grocery store on the way to set, picks up 200

scratcher tickets, like lottery tickets, and then one by one, hands the scratcher tickets out to every person on the crew, because you realized, I just want an opportunity to shake every crew member's hand, look in their eyes, thank them for the work, and wish them luck. Amazing. Every way. Just did this kind of apropos of nothing, just because he wants to make people happy. Laughing man, that's his coffee company. Yeah, yeah, it starts this.

Like, you think about all. the actors who have like started companies and made fortunes off them, he started this coffee company and gives every cent back to the farmers in Columbia and Ethiopia who like make the coffee and like reenriches their communities and build schools. It's just, uh, he, he's extraordinary. Did you know you, okay, so to give a little promotion to this worthy cause of yours, the frontrunner, which is a film I greatly enjoyed. He plays, of course, Gary Hart in the film. Um, this, and I mentioned when I saw you recently. I mean, this were, again, I'm roughly the same age

and I think I was about 12 and 88. I was 12 and 88. I'm not that bad in math. He was the frontrunner, of course, very charismatic, brought down by a scandal. Did you know you needed a movie star for this kind of a role?

It's not that I knew I needed a movie star, but he just seemed kind of perfect. I mean, he was, you know, cosmetically similar and, you know, the right age and charismatic. And look, I mean, when you talk about the Gary Hart story,

you have a guy who literally was going to be the next president in the United States. Right. Right. He's 10 points ahead of George Bush, 25 points ahead of every Democrat. His ideas were big. He was smart. He was charismatic. He was Kennedy-esque. And in less than a week, he goes from being the presumed next president to leaving politics forever. And as charming as a leader as he was in the Senate for two terms, this is going to be a tough week. And I wanted to make sure the decency of Gary Hart echoed through, even though we're covering this impossible week. And I knew that the decency of Hugh Jackman was going to find a way through. that performance did you know i'm sure you're being asked a lot about sort of like the meaning of this film in the time we're living in which is this crazy bizarre volatile political climate

like when you were probably developing this and decided to sign on and through shooting like you were in the throes of what we're experiencing the last couple years to a degree so i mean how much you know you're a filmmaker like i think most filmmakers all filmmakers that want to make a film for all times not just this time how much were you worried that this is either the time for this film or the worst time for this film you know what I mean because like day by day it changes no you're right I mean at one point things are like oh look it's so relevant and then the next day you're like I could do with less relevancy and look I'm like anyone else I wake up these days the first thing I do they wake up I check my phone just go fuck you know and I'm like I look

around and I wonder how the hell did we get here yeah and and look I think every director is trying to figure those questions out for their movies uh you go into a movie because you have questions you want to answer about your life, about life in general, you know, what the hell are we doing here? Why did we get to this place? And you also have to remember that we wrote this script in 2015. Right. Pre-election. So this story already felt relevant then because it talked about gender politics. It talked about the relationship between, you know, what is a public life versus a private life? You know, what is the relationship between candidates and journalists and when did that change? And it happened to be that this moment, this one week, it was the first time a sex scandal

took down a potential president and it was this beginning of a conversation about gender politics. It was the first time that tabloid journalism just drove into the lane of political journalism to stay right at the moment when tabloid journalism was going from print

to TV, you know, a current affair goes on the television and the satellite truck has just been invented and because of that the 24-hour news cycle has been created so now we are trying to generate more news. So all these seeds that lead us to this moment. So when the election happened and his closing speech suddenly have all this relevance,

is, you know, the other interesting about Gary Hart is that in his closing speech, which is kind of the best speech he ever made, odd thing, right? Most great speeches are kind of mid-career, you know, whether Abe Lincoln or JFK. This guy's greatest speech is the speech where he says, I'm walking away. And it ends with the line. line, if we're not careful, America will get the leader it deserves. And all of a sudden, that had a lot more relevance. You know, whatever you think of this guy, you know,

whatever side of the aisle you're on. And we had to think about that in the making, the end of the writing, the shooting, the cutting the whole thing. I mean, it's as, you alluded to this already, it's as much about journalism as it is about politics and more so, probably. I mean, and, you know, you mentioned kind of like that fascinating kind of symbol.

symbiotic relationship between the politician and the journalist and them needing needing each other similar in some ways to your our business yeah you know we kind of both need each other in different ways um did was this also a way to kind of explore that for you I mean did you reconcile a little bit of like your own ups and downs with um dealing with media over the years through the prism of this at all or not really only because I work in you know entertainment like at the end of the day who gives you shit I mean you know like That's your wife. We're sitting here talking about movies, and we love them passionately.

And don't be wrong, it's like everything I think about. But at the end of the day, they're movies, you know. And this is a guy who, in the mid-80s was saying America is addicted to oil, that addiction is going to take us into the Middle East, where we are going to face Islamic terrorism. And we won't know how to fight it because we only have a military that knows how to bomb people. You know, this is a guy who in 81 met Steve Jobs in the garage and came back to the same. Senate and said, in the future, the economy is going to be based on whether or not you know how he's a computer, let's put a computer in every classroom. He's a guy who was a guy ahead on everything and was really prescient. So I'm more just kind of curious about the conversations that we have about

politics and how shrill they've become. You go on to Twitter and it's like you're going to get your head ripped off and somehow through the prism of 1987, perhaps we can just have a more rational conversation about these untouchable topics. I mentioned before, this is a hell of a year for you. You had Tully earlier in the year, which was fantastic. Thank you. Again, re-teaming with Diablo, Cody, of course, and Charlize. Have Charlize and Hugh ever worked together?

That would be a fascinating combo. Her potty mouth, mouth of a sailor, and his just sweetness. By the way, I love that. Charlize is literally one of the greatest actresses alive, and your first descriptor is, she's such a potty mouth. She is. Come on, come on. No, you're right.

No, she's amazing. The first time I met her, she told me a dirty joke, and I fell in love with her. I love each I love or beyond everything, but I just think that would be a fascinating personal combo. I agree, and I love them both. So this is your, to bring our movie geekdom into it, this is your, what, your Schindler's Jurassic Park year. This is that rare two-for for a director.

I mean, all, in saying that you're just trying to get me attacked here, just like, why are you comparing him to doing one of the greatest stretch they've ever made to me, Chinler's list in Jurassic Park in the same year? Like, come on. Maybe it's your Amistad Lost World Year. I, okay, well, don't be an asshole. No, I'm kidding. Somewhere between.

Is that just happenstance? Was that the way that release schedules that kind of a thing? Or just one came right after the other? Honestly, it's a function of Diablo Cody, Matt By and J. Carson. It's getting to work with great writers who happened to, the scripts came around the right time, and then they wanted to release Tully on Mother's Day.

You know, I don't know if that was a great idea at the end of the day. but they did and now you're attached to just a special days election days and mother's days you're going to be like Gary Marshall like your life of home

thanks that's all I need but it it just worked out that way and and honestly the strangest part of it is promoting the movies back to back so it's just going on the road

and like I was just in Philadelphia and I was just in Chicago and I'm returning to like morning radio shows and TV shows where it's like, hey, I was here five months ago with another movie. Still the same guy. Still the same guy.

No news stories. Sorry. Same flaws. Okay, so let's go back a little bit and revel a little bit in our movie geekdom. So growing up, son of a very prominent filmmaker, obviously, to say the least. I mean, I'd like to imagine the arguments around the Reitman table were not about politics, but about, like, what was your favorite, Scorsese or Spielberg or Kubrick? I'm like, at all close?

Was there a lot of film discussion? in your house? Yeah, and I, you know, and I felt my dad trying to show me great films early on. Like, I remember him putting on Butch Cassidy

and mentoring candidate and Sidon Kane. I remember, the big one was Dr. Strangelove. I remember when he showed me that. I remember we went camping one year. Like, we would go camping every week. You know, like,

my dad was big into summer camp as a kid. There's a reason why he made meatballs as his first movie. And he told me the story of alien, like, as a campfire story, like start to finish. That's amazing.

Yeah. And it's funny because then I later on saw Alien and realized, wait, I know what's coming. Like I, so he told us. Is this that old legend that it's held by the Campfire?

Exactly. He spoiled Alien, but it didn't matter. I wonder if people will do that today with Prometheus. Do you think they, very involved? Yeah, exactly.

And then Charlize doesn't run in the right direction. She runs, she could have just zigzagged, but she didn't. As a campfire story, let's talk about where we come from.

For you to understand the campfire story, I'm going to explain DNA. Are you familiar with the theory that we were seated on earth by aliens thousands of years ago? Open prolog. That's all on a man. This story is going to be horrifying as an existential crisis. So... How are your s'mores?

Glad we entertain each other. But, no, my child had, for the most part, I think it was kind of normal, frankly. Like, my parents were very, they were together, they were normal, they were hard on me about grades. I don't feel like I saw a lot of Hollywood. A very weird example, but I think some for whatever it is emblematic. I have never seen cocaine in my life, and I'm 41. years old and to this day I've never seen it so I think that kind of wait till the end of the podcast it's how we close every podcast we do a lot exciting you know I've been looking for the I wanted

it to happen for the first time with the right person I no but like like so as a kid like I really don't think uh however they did it they did it right I did not have access to whatever the darker side of Hollywood was and I really never felt like I was a part of that I felt like I had two pretty normal parents who were interested in the right things. But I got to grow up also on movie set. So I got to see how movies were made. And I really thought of them as a craft. And I thought of them as, here's a job that people do. And I knew the different jobs were on set. And I saw that the good days versus the bad days looked like. And I was a PA by the time I was 13. It was a PA on kindergarten cop. Right. So, you know, run around Milwaukee and, you know, doing little

things here and there. Was there ever any other job on a set that you thought you wouldn't make a go of at or was it always writer-director? I mean, I, I, I loved the camera crew, I loved hanging with the camera boys, and I loved special effects. I mean, and is he kind of young boy would, so any film that had special effects, I just, I really got a kick out of how it was done and kind of the magic trick level of filmmaking, but I was interested in all of it, maybe everything but hair and makeup, but I don't think I spent any time in that trailer, But otherwise, I was really into the fairy tale. And what was your relation to your, you know, you worked on some of your dad's films.

You appeared in some of your dad's films. How dare you. We'll dig up the video. The relationship to enjoying them. Like, I mean, you know, when I'm, again, we're roughly the same age. When I'm seven or eight and I see Ghostbusters, it's the best thing I've ever seen and I go on to see it 100 more times, is it that way for you? or is it, oh, that's the film that made Dad miss my seventh birthday party? No, in fact, my birthday is right around Halloween, so I like to say that every kid that year was a Ghostbuster.

I was the only one of the real proton pack. But, no, I remember, no, that was magical. Yeah. I remember seeing Act 101 for the first time. I remember the day they blew up this tape off marshmallow man, and I saw William Atherton, stand under what looked like a hundred-ton bag of shaving cream and they just emptied it and it followed on him. You know the gag with the in the library, the, what are those cards, the index cards? Sure. I remember the special effects test of the index cards where they

showed it to my father for the first time and the shelf slid out and they go and they all flew out into the air. And I said, can you do it again? And they said, sure, kid, pick them up. So, It was absolutely magical. It was the perfect time I was, I was seven years old, and my father was in a weird way making a movie for me. I mean, I compare that to my daughter, who's 12 now, and it was literally never seen any of my movies because they're all rated R and existential. Right to men, women, and children, no.

No, do not. So do, it's interesting because, you know, you obviously appreciate and love the kinds of films your dad made and others of his ilk made and the posters on my wall and we've talked about this before especially early in your career when people were still kind of like figuring out what like the Jason Reitman thing was going to be there was a lot of like well

are you going to direct a Ghostbusters movie and I'll do all that and I feel like most people have like gotten it now like that's not what you're about necessarily even though it is what you're about it just took 20 years but we're slow on behalf of the entire media we're a little slow I like to say when someone

tells you who they are and maybe listen. Right, right. But I guess my point, though, is that stuff's in you too, clearly. You love that stuff. Yeah, but I also learned early on that you have to think about what kind of movie

are you a fan of versus what kind of movie are you a maker of? You know, it's funny. I've gotten close to John Hughes's son, James Hughes, and one of the stories I loved, he said,

you know, my dad loved hip-hop. Everyone always wanted to, like, you know, send him new wave music because of the music and his films, but he loved hip-hop. And I get that. I get that idea of, look, I love Die Hard. I obsessively love the movie

Die Hard. I'm never going to make Die Hard. You don't want me making Die Hard. That being said, like up here like Ryan Johnson, and I know you liked Last Jedi, as did I. Huge fan. Amazing. I don't know if necessarily after Brick, he would have said, maybe he would have, I don't know, that I want to make a Star Wars

movie. Nothing about, like, using different tools, testing yourself in different ways, seeing if you can do the Jason Reitman version, not to say Star Wars particular, but that ilk of the things that are dominating the multiplex, it's just still not of interest. It's just not your thing. What's the movie you'd like to see me make?

I'm not telling you what to make. You know what, let's figure this out right now. Let's just get right down to it, shall we? It's not about you and like your name and like your dad even. It's about, I would have to be. this conversation with any filmmaker. Right. And it's because in some ways, like, it's the track that a lot of people want to put

filmmakers on. It's like, well, when are you going to make your $100 million movie? Right. Maybe you'd never want to make your $100 million movie. Well, I mean, I suppose what I'd say is about having a $100 million movie is you lose a lot of control. Right. And when I think of it just as a dollar amount, nothing about $100 million movie appeals

to me. Right. I would say the cheaper movie always appeals. to me because that's one that you could tell in a personal way and you have more controls of filmmaker, you get to say more interesting things and everyone's a little less nervous because they don't have as much money on the line.

When there's $100 million in the line, everyone is absolutely terrified and you are working with a group who is, you know, wondering if they're going to make their money back. Now, as far as the kind of tone and style the movie, look, I mean, if I happen upon a script like The Fugitive, another brilliant movie, but it's a

character-based movie that has action in it, Like, would that be exciting? Yeah, of course it would be. Right. Look, if I could tell, make a movie like the ones we've been talking about it, that actually was a personal movie about things that I relate to, family, and who we are. But within the context of a bigger movie, I would totally be interested in that. Even, like I was alluding to earlier, without hopefully ruining too much for people, totally is a high concept movie.

It's like, it's your version. of kind of like a high concept. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's my, it's my sixth sense. Right. So in some ways, like, yeah, that's a Jason Reitman version of that kind of a thing, I suppose, a high concept twist kind of a movie. Yeah, yeah, the postpartum depression version. Exactly.

All you need to know is that, like, you know, your dad's political movie was like Dave via, you know, Francappra and yours is the frontrunner via, you know, Michael Ritchie and Right, yeah. Although, in this case, the frontrunner actually is a thriller. I mean, it actually is. It actually is like a political thriller that his humor to it. It's less than a week and a guy leaves the presidency. And it's, uh, I remember hearing the story for the first time on Radio Lab and then being like, oh, this is, this feels like a movie.

And it like has this moment in an alleyway where a great scene, amazing. This guy out like out back from his house in the middle of the night is confronted by these reporters and it feels like a Western standoff in the middle of a film noir. it felt like a thriller. With Tully, I say, come for the postpartum depression, stay for the six cents. How did you know how to direct the quality of actors you did in your first feature? I mean, I just had Sam Elliott in here. You know, JK, Duval, Aaron Eckhart, obviously. Like, how did you navigate that?

I mean, you've kind of answered the question, you know, within the question. I mean, it's the quality of actors. Yeah. know what they're doing. You don't, I mean, but look, directing requires this weird combo of ego and arrogance and empathy and sensitivity. So you need to be a sensitive, empathetic person who feels what other people feel and need to understand character and how that's going to make an audience feel.

Simultaneously, you have to presume you're right. There's no room on set for a director who, doesn't think they know what's right of course you have to watch every shot and go this is wrong because of these reasons and if you're not then you shouldn't do that job but even if you what if you don't actually know do you have to you have to kind of like assume like pretend that you know my my my my my father and i think i may have told this before uh forgive me if i have uh once said to me it's not your job to be funny it's not your job to know what's funny it's your job to be a barometer for truth. And your barometer for truth is always on. So watch something and ask yourself, do you believe it? Right. Does that feel truthful?

Is that honest? And if not, why? Is it not honest because of the way they're saying it or what they're saying? Or the conversation should be shorter. Or they should sit down into it or stand up and do it. Or it's the laptop that's sitting in front of them. You wouldn't have that laptop. He wouldn't have a Mac.

You'd have a PC. You know, so if you start processing every question through the truth barometer, it starts to make sense and these things don't have to be conscious like you're not literally sitting there on someone going hmm what feels honest to me it's just kind of an instinctual thing it's coming at you

and the more you make movies I think honestly the hardest thing is at the beginning of your career you have no experience and it used to be it's less so now used to be how do you get experience in a job that requires so much money to try anything

just to make your first short film right and uh and now yeah you were kind of the last wave of that before now you're shooting them on film and you have to like get a camera and in and process and develop and somehow cut it together and make answer prints i mean so uh now it's become more democratic now you look i mean if sean baker can make tangerine on an iPhone any one should be able to make a film on their iPhone there is uh software that comes to your phone uh there's software that you can download for free to edit these things, you can distribute on a variety of video platforms online and have a hit. So that barrier entry has come down, and you can now practice in real time.

What do you think, though, you were learning? I'm curious, like, because you did a bunch of shorts. You took one to Sundance, as I remember. Like, what did you get out of that trial and error, or was it simply trial and error? I mean, it's a comma of two things, right? So on one side, you're just figuring this thing out. I mean, if you imagine how many times a baseball player goes into the batting cage and goes, you know, and their swing is just, it's just the muscle memory of if I do this, the ball goes this way, do this, the ball goes that way. And you're doing the same thing with, oh, I shouldn't have shot it that way by shooting it on this lens or at this distance or at this height or by moving the camera, by panning instead of dollying, all these little choices affect how the image makes you feel and you practice that.

Simultaneously, you're figuring out your voice. right so one party was just learning pure technique just like okay muscle memory as you said yeah like if i shoot it this way it's never going to work and you wouldn't have known that earlier now you know the other side of it is what is your voice and and every filmmaker at the beginning of their career is copying somebody else so if you look at my first short films you go i get it you love quentin tarantino you desperately want to be quentin tarantino and for every generation it's different but if you were you know my age in the late 90s like that was it he was the rock star you know he was Iggy Pop you know and then um and slowly but surely you start to

wean your way off of trying to look and feel like somebody else and you start trusting that instinctual way that you want to say something that you were embarrassed of in the same way that you're embarrassed of your own voice in high school and you're just like I just don't want to sound like me I don't want to look like me and then you start to go okay I am me like that's it I can't control that and and so hopefully this thing thing happens where your technique comes into its own while you find your voice. And by that point, you've lived enough life and made enough mistakes that you actually have something to say. Right. What do you think the biggest difference is the way you run a set or the way you

approach filmmaking today versus the first couple? I may have way more calm. I think I was terrified in my first few films and I just really wanted to get over the finish line. And now I've stopped and I really enjoy. I get to make movies of people I love. I mean, crew people that go back to Thank You for Smoking, some further than that, my DP back to high school. So I get to be on the set living, you know, a new life every day with people I love. Cass, I get to work with the best actors on earth.

Like literally the best actors on earth. And I love it. I love every day of it. And if you would ask me when I was younger, I would just be just, just, absolutely terrified, and all I was thinking is I hope I can get this thing done. You know, I'm curious, like, you know, in the nature of these kind of conversations, we always talk about kind of like the arcs of a career and the different kind of sections. And, you know, what part of the downfall on my end?

Well, no, and that's not what I'm saying at all. But you know, as well as I do, like you, the first few films, you know, thank you for smoking, Juno up in the air, it's like you can do no wrong, right? Like riding high. Oh, little did they know how wrong I could do. That's not what I'm saying. But I guess you're smart enough guy to know and having seen your dad go through ups and downs

that like, as much as they love to build you up, they love to tear you down. Were you cognizant of that and kind of like, well, at some point it's gonna, especially like after something like Juno where it's like, it's not just a success, it's a pop culture phenomenon. And like even that, I remember there was backlash

against Juno, you know? Yeah. Were you sealing yourself against that? Were you kind of like inevitably I'm gonna have to go through that kind of shit? I remember something I said quite a few times during up in the air where I said, the best career movie I could make right now is die and uh and I think that's probably true

like if I had just gone out on those three films and I'd been like man imagine what he could have made yeah but um uh but look uh so after up in the year I made young adult which uh oddly amongst directors is always their favorite film of mine and it's one of my favorites and um and it's the film. I feel like young adult is, you know, there's that person who, there's some people that everyone agree is attractive, and then there's those people where everyone thinks... They're the most gorgeous thing where they're like, what the fuck you're making? Yeah, or like, people think they're the only

person to ever find them attractive, and that's how people are always about young adult. They think they're the only one who ever liked that film, and I love that about that movie. And then look, Labor Day and men, women, and children, um, I think are qualified failures, I think, uh, are they, uh, creatively, or

just by the way that, like, objectively speaking from yours, you can't be objective, but Like, would you, irrespective of a box office and all to end, the critical reception, would you say, well, no, no, just. No, okay, this is what I'll say. Yeah. I know why I made both of them. Okay. They both required leaps in technique and education on my part as a filmmaker.

They were hard to make and, um, uh, and in many ways joyful to make both of them. And men, women, and children, I'm particularly proud of the talent. young actors that were in that film who are all kind of like blowing up like Ansel Timothy, exactly, Caitlin Deaver I mean, it's kind of a huge list and I think men and women and children I think

will be a film that will age well, I don't think Labor Day will age well, but look, you know you're going to have films that are not going to connect and it sucks, no, it's painful and whiskey was

drunk, but but that's part of it look this is a great job I get to go make movies and I get to tell these stories and I get to work with really talented people and some are going to work

and some are not and look I'm happy that I'm having a good year I'm glad that people like Tully I'm glad that people like the frontrunner and I well and also if you don't push yourself and take risks I mean as you say you were kind of like going in you know Labor Day was a departure

frontrunner in many ways seems like a departure If you don't go for that, what are you doing? Like, why bother making the same film over and over again? Yeah, and I guess it gets down to, like, why do you make movies? Right. And everyone does for different reasons. Like, some people just make movies because they want to be at the party. Right.

Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And some make movies for the money, and some are chasing big box office. And look, some are the opposite. Some are trying to be as esoteric as humanly possible. and, you know, it would prefer if everyone said, I just don't understand your movie and it'd be like, success.

And, you know, I, um, I have questions. I'm trying to answer questions. Did the early kind of Oscar acclaim and nominations, does that fuck with the young filmmaker's brain a little bit where like... It is a moment where, you know, enough people say you're a genius that you mistakenly believe it, you know, and like, you know, if enough people say and you're like, yeah, I guess I am. And then, and then, yeah, and then the balloon gets,

popped and go, oh, that's right. I'm just like, I'm just a dude, like everyone else. I'm just trying to, you know, tell stories, and sometimes it's going to work, and sometimes it's not. Do you have, like, a pile of, like, or at least a small pile of scripts that you want to get made? Like, how does it work for you? I mean, Diablo came to you with that idea. I know, and you immediately responded to it. How does it, is there a general kind of process for how you're seeking out material or developing material? I mean, so far my career has gone like this. There's things that I'm writing, and there's things that Diablo Cody's writing. And, and, And they've kind of interwoven nicely.

Every five years, Diablo writes something and we make it. And I hope that just keeps going for the rest of our lives together. I hope this is like a filmmaking marriage. And simultaneously, there's things interested me. I've only got like a few things in development at any given time. I'm writing a couple things. There's a couple of writers who are writing things for me. But in general, it's a small...

I'm not one of those directors who has like 20 movies being developed. developed across the spectrum. I just, I don't understand that. Do you, you obviously had success on television with casual? Are you developing

anything else for TV? I am. And I'll say, I find TV a little tricky in that it has no ending. When I think of why I want to tell stories, it oddly starts with the ending. And it starts with that feeling

that you have read as the movie ends and the filmmaker, pushes you out the door of the movie theater and you are thrust back into your life and you are now reflecting upon your life through the filter of the movie you just watched. Right. And television never ends. Right. Television is just, come back next week.

And I get hooked on it. This shows that I love, you know, love Thrones, love Mad Men, recently, love Kill and Eve, love Fleabag. I love, you know, if you watched Patriot on Amazon? No. Fantastic. Really? Nothing about it. Yeah, yeah, great writer.

Okay. So, do you like the movie The Weatherman? Yes. Nichols Cage? Yeah, Gorvaren's Case, sure. Yeah, same writer. Oh, cool. So, there's definitely a TV I love, but, like, our conversation began with color of

money. Right. You think about that ending. Like, it's one of the first things you said, because it, I mean, he almost, like, he almost shoots you out of the movie theater with the pool cue, right? Right. And, and, or think about. Think about how Kubrick films

Leave something in your gut for a week And you can't help but look at the world Through the lens that he just left you with I mean, that's what I'm after I just watched I'm actually almost finished with There are closed looped ones where Stiller just directed like eight hours

Escape at Danamora Do you know about this? This crazy upstate person Yeah, yeah yeah I do actually know about it I know a couple people worked on it Yeah, yeah it's pretty fascinating Talk about a change of pace But yeah I'm like coming to like the last

episode, which I noticed is 100 minutes. And I'm like, okay, he's ending with a little mini film of his own. And look, and what Carrie Fukunaga did on Trich Detective, it's exciting and interests me. I haven't found that marathon that I'm ready to run yet. Have you, okay, so we're in the fun part of the year. And I know as someone that I consume is a true. What is the fun part of the year?

You mean like Christmas is coming? Well, no, I don't mean that. I mean fall movies, good movies, good movies. And you get the trailers for the summer movies, the fun movies next year. I always love the fall that way. Yeah. So, have you, have you seen, you watch a lot, I mean, movie-wise. Have you caught up on, like, the fall movies?

Have you seen the Romas? Yeah. Have you seen Roma? Yeah, amazing. Extraordinary. Yeah. Just. I'm, so watching Roma, like, five minutes in, I was like, okay, I get it.

It's pretty. And then halfway through, I was like, oh, God, why do I bother directing? I mean, it's just, he's such an out-and-out genius in that movie. You know, anyone who's listening, I implore you, when you see Roma, see it in a theater with utmost sound. The sound is as good as the picture and that movie deserves to be seen communally. It's extraordinary.

Yep. Cold War? I still haven't seen it. I know everyone loves it. Is it amazing? It's amazing. The two best movies of the year? Black and white.

And in, by the, I think also both shot in Digital 65. They're both pristine-looking. But, oh my God, Cold War. Talk about economy of storytelling. We're jumping through eras and giving each era just one shot to tell the story in that moment. Amazing. Dogman? I don't even know about this one.

Oh, my gosh, amazing. It's Talian. It's the, uh, um, this is where you lose everybody. Let me go on about foreign films you don't care about. Um, no, uh, you ever see Gomorrah? Yes. That director. Oh, okay.

Bad-ass film. The actor won best actor at Cannes. Okay. It's violent and rich and crazy and, and, Great. Like no movie you've ever seen. Sold. Dogman. Romantic date night.

Exactly. And I don't know. What else is there? I haven't seen Damien's film yet. I need to see Damien's film. I haven't seen Stars Born yet. Need to see that. Very good.

I know they're supposed to be great. You know what's really good? I don't think enough people are talking about is can you ever forgive me? I thought was great. The Mario Heller movie with Richard Grant and Lewis McCarthy. We want to see that. Obviously, she directed Casual and her first film was about as good a debut. I've ever seen.

Are you still working on an animation, animated project for Dreamworks? No, no. I mean, look, DreamWorks got bought by Universal and it kind of got lost in the shuffle, but I still write with Gil Ken and my writing partner on that who directed Monster House and Poltergeist

and, you know, he's a brilliant storyteller and he's, you know, we have our own writing marriage that I'm very proud of it. So are you secure in like, are you able to make the movies that you want to make it seemingly so with two coming out this year? But, like, in this era where, like, Fox Searchlight, for instance, which was a huge, you know, distributor of several of early works, I don't know what that's going to look like. Hopefully, hopefully it'll still be around in a year or two with this merger.

But, like, it's an odd time. It's a totally strange time. And look, my last two movies were finance and produced by Braun, an independent financing company up in Canada that stepped up and made these two movies. And I had Charlie's Theron and Hugh Jackman. Right. right? Like for modestly priced movies. So it is a different era. Yeah. And I think

Netflix and Amazon have changed the landscape. I think the way we watch movies has changed the landscape. And this politicized time that has made people just kind of like, I get it. You want to watch popcorn movies right now. Like, I get it. Right. So it's just a tricky moment. But I can't help but think that the pendulum swings. We had the 70s. We had the 90s, you know, I was in high school at that perfect moment when Quentin and PTA and Alexander Payne and Sophia Coppola and Spike Jones and, you know, Tamara Jenkins and like all these, Nicole Hollis Center, all these cool directors, Wes Anderson.

Like they just, it was like punk rock happened at the movies. And I have to believe that that'll happen again. You got through this entire conversation without alienating a huge segment of the audience. Oh, come on. really have I not been a good guest no I'm just saying uh you always you're proud of me for not you always mention one incident in our past we're not going to mention it okay no no we're doing good we're doing well we're having a good time I love movies it's still on the internet by the way what is what I can't I don't know what you're talking about the thing you said once in an

interview anyway Jason it's a pleasure to be here it was the first 48 minutes yeah I know you could you could have ended strong You know, the date was going so well. They're going to hear some massive edits. Some, like, strange cut points here. Congratulations on both Tully and the frontrunner. People should catch up with Tully. I assume it's out in every...

It's digital, streamable, airplaneable. Maybe not air, don't know the airplane. I always know when my movies go to airplanes because that's when I get the emails. Like, they're always getting in a, dude, I don't know why I didn't catch it the first time, but I just watched your movie while flying to Omaha. And, man, it's great. It is great on whatever screen you find it on.

And check out the frontrunner in a theater, an actual theater with other comedians. Look, this is a movie that we shot as though we made it in the 70s, shooting on 35 with a huge cast, with all kinds of technique. And if you're interested at all, I think you owe it to yourself to see you in the theater. He sold it better than I possibly could. Jason, it's always good to see you, man. It's the best. I'll see you later. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused.

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