Happy Sad Confused - Jason Schwartzman, Vol. II

Episode Date: November 11, 2020

There's just something about Jason Schwartzman that soothes the spirit. On the big screen, on the small screen, and even on a podcast. Josh catches up with Jason on this episode to talk about their mutual love of the Coen brothers, Bill Murray, and Jason's go to comfort movie, "Groundhog Day." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Jason Schwartzman on Fargo and his comfort movie Groundhog Day. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, Jason Schwartzman back on the podcast today. talking all things. Cohn Brothers Fargo.

Yes, I know the Coen Brothers didn't do this Fargo, but it's inspired by the Coen Brothers Fargo. And of course, we talk about his comfort movie of choice, and today, very appropriately, he goes to a Bill Murray movie, Jason Schwartzman. I can't think of Jason Schwartzman without thinking of his debut in film

in Rushmore alongside Bill Murray. So I was particularly tickled that he chose Groundhog Day, which is, of course, one of the classic Bill Murray films of all time. This is a fun chat with a, you know the word that comes to mind about Jason Schwartzman? Affable. He's just, he's just easy to talk to. He's comforting. He is soothing. I think that's why I always enjoy seeing him in a film or TV show, and it's why I always enjoy catching up with him. And this conversation was a delight, and I hope you guys

enjoyed as much as I did. This was taped before the events of this past week, guys. You know, I've been railing about the insanity of the election for so long. I am so relieved. I exhaled like many of us did this past week when the returns came in. And yes, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris will be the new president and vice president come January 20th of next year. And that is hope in a time that hasn't had much. And that is responsible adults in a time where there haven't been many responsible adults. And no, they're not going to fix everything. And they're certainly not going to fix everything overnight.

But, man, we've got problems. And we've got problems that need to be dealt with. and hard to be dealt with even with the best of people, let alone the incompetence that's been at the top of our government for four years. So I'm not going to go any further than that, but just to say, I'm glad we all came out to vote. I'm glad we all showed up. I'm glad we made the efforts that we did, and I'm glad that there was a clear rejection of Donald Trump. Would I like the Senate? Yes. But would I still like the Senate? Yes. It's possible. If you want to focus your efforts, and I certainly am coming this January to Senate runoff elections in Georgia. And if the

Democrats take those, then we can get some real shit done, guys. So that's the next focus. But anyway, okay, enough politics talk. It's a good day. It's a good time. New York was just alive with hope and excitement this last week, and it still is today. And it's a nice, refreshing, unusual feeling in what's been a really, really, really shitty year and tough four years. So I'm going to enjoy the moment. In terms of the pop culture side of things, yes, Jason Schwartzman is the guest today, but other things to mention, I've been chatting with some really cool actors for my various, you know, the various hats that I wear, did a couple really fun conversations for MTV that are going

to show up very soon. I caught up with Sersha Ronan. I always love talking to Sersha. She's got a new movie called Ammonite. She's excellent in. That's fun. That's coming soon. Chatted with Leticia Wright, who is someone I haven't talked too much.

And she's been on the list of someone I wanted to kind of get to know a little bit more. And she was fantastic, a really great conversation about her part in the new Steve McQueen anthology series for Amazon Prime. If you don't know about this, I mean, you should because this is pretty cool. Steve McQueen, one of our finest filmmakers on the planet, has directed not one. Not two, but five, five films for an anthology series on Amazon Prime coming soon. It's called Small Axe, and it's got, I've seen three of them, actually. And one of them stars are a guy John Boyega. I think that one's called Red, White, and Blue.

I think that's the final installment. And Letitia's is called Mangrove. So that's well worth paying attention to. That's coming soon to Amazon Prime. and, as I said, I spoke to a Letitia for that one, and it was a lot of fun. Also fun, we took a week off for Stir Crazy last week with the election madness, but we are back this week in a big way with a really awesome episode with Zachary Quinto. If you've seen my After Hours with Zachary, you know what I'm talking about.

If you haven't, I highly recommend you Google Zachary Quinto After Hours, Comedy Central. Go to Comedy Central's YouTube page and look it up there. Um, it's one of my favorites we've done in recent years. And man, I've talked to Zach a lot over the years. He was on the podcast not so long ago. But, um, I really enjoy, um, exposing his comedic side because he is, he's just, bottom line, a great actor, but, um, because he presents as so kind of straight and serious, um, when I can expose his wacky side, it is a delight. And, um, that sketch, that after hour sketch was fantastic in this episode of Stir Crazy, which comes out this week is equally bonkers and fun. So look out for that on Comedy Central's YouTube page

on my social media, Joshua Horowitz, on Twitter and Instagram. That's a fun one. So yeah, we're in the throes of November guys. We are fast approaching the end of the year. And normally I'd be talking about like all the Oscar bait. And we are kind of talking about Oscar bait. There's stuff like Mank and Hillbilly Elegie. Lots of stuff coming soon. But don't forget, the Oscar season's all screwed up this year because we are going to go well into 2021 for Oscar eligibility. So I've been seeing some really good movies, but we also have time to catch up and see more good movies. And in January and February, when normally we'd be talking about kind of the crappy movies. So I'm excited about that as a film geek. So, yeah, maybe I'm a little chipper today because

we save democracy, or maybe it's just Jason Schwartzman who just puts me in a good mood. Either way, I hope you guys enjoy this episode. And as always, remember to spread the good word of happy, set, confused. Your reviews are always welcome, and they help kind of just push this out further into the universe. And they are much appreciated. In the meantime, I hope you enjoy this conversation, rather, if I can speak, with Jason Schwartzman. That was conducted before the madness. I don't think we talk about election stuff or any of that, but just for context.

this was a few weeks back. His series is, of course, Fargo, which is on FX on Hulu, from the great Noah Hawley. It's, I think, the fourth installment of Fargo, and he is part of a great ensemble again this year. Here's me and Jason Schwartzman. Jason Schwartzman, a soothing presence in my life always, even in these strange times, especially in these strange times. It's good to see you, buddy. Good to see you, and a soothing presence, you are. Is that your, that your ditto right back at me? Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, friend. I got stuck in a little bit of a grammatical cul-de-s back there. Caught into a vortex of hell. But no, it is a second I saw you come up here, I felt much,

much better. Oh, very sweet. Well, you know, we've been talking for many years. you've been acting by my count now, you're a veteran, 20 plus years of acting when you do the math. Is that shock you when I say that? Do you still feel imposter syndrome 20 years into this gig? Yeah, very much because that, you know, that it's a, you know, if that's the case, then I've been playing the guitar for like 30 years. And if I think about that, I should be a lot better at the guitar and I guess you can't manage I guess you yeah but yeah I mean I'm uh yeah I just makes me think gosh I should be better I know that's not what I meant but I but no that's amazing that's crazy you know what I looked up the um just when I went down the YouTube Jason

Schwartzman rabbit hole which I know you go down every night as you drift off to sleep your first appearance on Letterman back when you were promoting Rushmore is a trip to watch because I mean I sent I mean like I would have gone insane I'm sure you were going insane and you held it together pretty much do you remember was that a big moment for you meeting Dave and that's a great question um well you know yes um it's so uh it's hard to describe but that whole year was was so strange because since I was 13 my I was dead set on being I wasn't music I've been playing drums since I was 10 but I but I felt like I will be in a this is my mission is to be in a band to make records and there was nothing really else

and so everything was going put that in my head and then a senior year of high school, everything got changed very quickly. And so everything was, you know, it wasn't even like, it wasn't even like, it would be like if someone put you like in like a race car and they said, just, you know, try it, you know, do the best you can if you finish 10th or whatever. I'm like, I just don't want to crash. Yeah, this wasn't even like part of the dream. This was like a dream you didn't know you had. At that point, I was just kind of like in survival mode. And anyway, so yeah, all that whole year, everything was freaky to me. But I, but I'll never forget, I, I was with Bill Murray, Mr. Bill Murray. And the movie

had come out I think anyway I said I'm going to be on David Letterman I had never done any type of press before and he said something that you know I think when Bill says something like this you're you laugh and then you realize that it's it's very you're laughing because it's so true And I said, yeah, I'm going to be on David Letterman. He said, oh, I said, do you have any pointers? He said, be funny or you're dead. Funny and true.

And I said, I said, and he said, no, he said, he said, you have to get a laugh in the first 30 seconds. If you don't, he is good enough and has the power. He'll just take the interview away from you. and that'll be that that's very wise that's absolutely dead on and that will be your that will be you know he's he's so smart he's so good he knows what to do if he can sense that there's not there's nothing you're not bringing much to the table so okay i'm gonna fuck you fuck with you and make it into something yep and that and i had a lot of warning before i went it was like a month and a half i was so uh i couldn't believe it because that

That, be funny, you're dead, get a laugh in 30 seconds. That is just, that's just hard. You know, that's straight, that's hard. Yeah. So you went out and just said your mom is hot. And that, and that's, well, I haven't seen it. But I do remember, I went there, I remember how weird it was, too, because I, I didn't realize how, I'd only watched it on television and I hadn't, of course, as most of,

people have. But the size of the place, it confused me when I walked out. I forgot the audience and you're miced. And not only you miced for television, but you're miced through the PA system in there. So your voice is booming and you have like a slight slapback of it. And it was so much to go. And then I'm looking at him. And it was like, it was like someone wearing a mask of David letterman yeah it was like you know it's like if you saw it's like it's an icon it's a symbol someone you've seen your whole there they are and you're there um and you only have seen that show from these certain angles on television and all of a sudden you're in an angle you know you can only be in if you're on it which is him looking at you and um and it was it was just my brain was totally

scrambling but um no i do remember i did get one i got an unexpected laugh very quickly and I remember thinking Bill will I hope Bill will be proud of me. Yeah, he's got the stop watch out. Yeah, I got it at the 18 second mark. I got just Yeah, I do remember he said like you were a drummer or a thing or he said something and I said not trying to I'm not making a joke. I said I was sort of a nothing or something like that and he laughed and it was like the most incredible release. You could really feel tension leave your body if you accomplish it like a goal like that you know what i mean like i just i felt so happy um and uh it was the best yeah it was the best applying that that kind of

out-of-body um relief experience um that you had so early on to work that's come later and jumping all the way up to um fargo for instance which is your your latest project from the genius that is no Holly, which is a, I know a show that you had a lot of reverence for, and I do. Do you still have, maybe it's not quite analogous to the Letterman moment, but like, my sense from you is you do have those moments on set. You're very much aware of the macro and the micro when you're on a project like that. You know, you would, you know in arcades when the racing car, there was like a version of the racing car game that had like, like, you know, you would, you know, like four buttons you could press.

And they were like red, green, yellow, blue. And they were one, you hit one, and you were in the driver's seat. Yeah. Two, you were just outside of the car. Three, you were above it. And four, you were like way out and saw the whole race. And that's very much, like, as you say, like I, you know, I, I'm such a fan of movies and music and things.

and every day that I, and I mean this, like, it's so, I'm shocked when I see how relaxed people are and they, I'm like, how do they all seem, how do they just all look like they know how to be here? Did they take a class? You know, I feel very, always very, you know, first of all, well, when it goes to work, I'm always, I'm always, scared isn't the right word. but it's not like, yeah, I'm not like high-fiving anybody, like, you know, in basketball and they just like get announced and like run off the bed. Yeah, that like that Michael Jordan chill that you can just see he's so freaking real, the last season in the zone. There's a nervous excitement, there's a nervous tension.

Yeah, I don't have, but I have like a, you know, it's just, you know, it's funny, it's because maybe it's, I, it's, it's, I love drumming. So I like that it was back there, but I like Keith Moon. So I like that it's back there, but it's big. But it's very awkward for me. Even literally on the second, one of the last days we were shooting,

there was like this scene where I had to do something. We were trying to figure it out on Fargo. And they said, well, let's just, let's just, everyone's quiet. Let's just see what he's going to do. Quiet. Let's just see what you're going to. and I look around and everyone just looking at me and I was like please don't keep talking everybody please it's not it's embarrassing yeah I hear what I mean like it's so weird thing to to you know

it's like so many things are going through your head am I going to get fired um are people going to just be like what is this um you know stuff you're saying resonates to I mean like obviously I have a different, an adjacent profession, but I, I, I get it because it's, people often ask me if I get nervous talking to actors or filmmakers I admire. And the answer is yes, I do. And I, and I feel like I have a second site where like, I'm constantly watching me talk to like, yeah, Kurt Russell or Michael Mann or all these people like, I admire growing up. And it's like, but there's also a switch in there that's like in it. And I agree with you. The stuff that I get nervous about is like when I have to like for like a hosting kind of thing introducing something like every all eyes on you as

opposed to like I can converse I can be in the moment with you but it's when it's like presentational like and like and more of a you mean like a traditional like in a very traditional presentation on type of thing where yeah I just get antsy when it's when like it resonated with me when you were talking about sort of like okay let's show us what you're going to do and it's sort of like totally focused on you as opposed to something I'm collaborating with someone else on where it's like, okay, Josh, do your intro, and there are 30 people on the set waiting for me to deliver an introduction.

Let me ask you a question. When you, do you listen back to your shows? I do, and it's painful, but I do. When you listen back, do you hear, are you able to hear that yourself going, I am really engaged with this person, I am listening, or are there times when the person says something, but you have something else,

you want to say and you kind of go over and you go, gosh, he was just trying to say something, I think, kind of interesting. Like being in the, how able are you to be in the, as you have this thing, if I'm talking to Kurt Russell, and you're also talking to him and you're in it there. Yeah. How much do you feel looking back? Like, yes, I was in the, I was in gay, I was there. Yeah. I mean, I don't mean to go down this rap. on the Josh Harrowitz experience. But yes, I do definitely, that is a fine line and kind of a wave. I'm trying to ride where it's like, it's obviously always about who I'm talking to,

but I also want to feel like a conversation, something we're engaging in. And I do sometimes like, yeah, I'll do, I'll regret like, oh, I'm jumping in a little too much. I need to hang back a little bit more. But it's such, at this point, it's like a feel thing, right? It's just sort of like, you're just trying to be engaged. Well, Zoom, this whole, yeah, also the computer has changed probably so much of the way. you know people communicate I was I'm not as familiar like I don't do it as regularly but and that is that's a word I have a hard time saying that's why it sounded like that but I was

on a call with like 10 people and it's a tough it's tough system for like quips well yeah we're re-learning our like social cues like we were used we know how to interact in person most people most of us do but it's like what's the protocol here. Do we give a half second pause? Yeah, and then like you light up over there and then it's very yeah, but it's basically, I'm trying to

seem like I'm not, I'm trying to like, I'm trying to sound not as nervous all the time. The truth is I am cannot believe every day whenever I'm working that I am there and I am looking at the whole thing from outside of my body and I feel not only like, I can't believe I am doing this, but I feel like bad for the people that I'm talking to.

I'm like, they should, this is, I feel like this is bad. I say, here's something that, the whole thing is just a mistake. No, and I really do. And, and, you know, it is still, you know, it blows my mind that, you know, that, that I've gotten to work with some, of these people and and yet um it doesn't get any less frightening for me yeah and i don't know which part of it is the frightening part actually i mean there's so many elements of it that of the frightening part but um it's uh and i really like in fargo for instance there's some kids in the show and i was just so impressed by their they just they just were there and they didn't it wasn't they didn't seem to have any problems and and i and i thought that's incredible

because energy because is such a your energy is such a valuable commodity and worrying and stuff like that is you know it's like leaking you're too much jason oil leak yeah so it's like you know so i sub so i admire people who can be uh you know be right i kind of just just back a little bit behind the beat. Um, it's pretty amazing. I mean, um, yeah, I'm also impressed, like, when actors and musicians, whatever, will, like, complete a take or something and say, that was good for, yeah, that was that. Um, I'm always, I go, I mean, obviously, you know if it's not right, if it's like, for me at least, I know, but it's hard. I, I've never been like, Nailed it.

Cut print. Let's move on. Put that one. Can you email that one to me just so I can show that you know. You know, I don't have like that, you know. It's good on the real. It's really interesting. And, but you know what's really fascinating is that it's funny as I get older, like,

like harping on things is definitely like something that I struggle with. For instance, like I remember once I was like on, I didn't. like I was on the Conan O'Brien show and I had prepared this stuff and I had this story and I just was like I was like this is such a good story this is good and for whatever reason I was confused by something

I didn't know the other guest was going to be the story just I didn't commit to it and it was just like crickets it was just and I remember flying back to L.A. the next day and like literally like a like a football play I had, like, drawn out the stage on a piece of paper

and, like, drawn, like, me, like, with an air. Like, there I'm walking. Now, I sit here, X. Now, he asks me this. And, like, I tried to, like, scheme it out. Like, I'm like, and I couldn't for days. I was, like, so embarrassed. And anyway, the really great thing is, like, doing Fargo, for instance,

it's such a big show. And there's so much going on. that I never felt rushed but there's also an amazing um you have to be able to let something go to be in the next thing right um because you you know what I mean if if if something didn't go right that morning you can't sulk about it because there's other shit to do more hours you know because rock is waiting on the other side yeah and it's just a drag for everybody you can't just moping, you know, and it's really, and I like that. It's, I like that where you just, you have to keep going. You can't. Yeah. There's no other option. Yeah. I don't know about you, but I found that, like,

when Fargo was first announced, and this guy, Noah Hawley, who I knew virtually nothing about back then, like, it sounds like the worst idea possible. It's like, how do you, so it doesn't really have the Cohen Brothers involvement. Right, right. It's this guy know a Holly. It's not really an adaptation of Vargo. They're kind of emulating the, what, the vibe, the tone and I mean it kind of stands as a miracle that each each season each whatever incarnation he kind of reinvents it and it does feel tonally of the world of the cones yet nothing generally to do with them um I know it's like a it's like a cover band that goes on to like make records like the band but they're actually really good and not like the band yep what was your

what's your what's your relationship to the cones like did you or were you were you were you a fan do you have what's on your route mount rush mortar of cohen brothers movies what are the ones that resonate well um well let's see uh i'm a i'm a very big cohen brothers fan um in fact i saw i remember seeing fargo in the theaters with uh my family um and I loved it and I mean I think the I saw raising Arizona and I uh it was just so wonderful and wild um and uh starring your relative obviously too Nick Nick Cage and yes yes um and then uh but I had like some holes um like there's a few I still have not even have not seen but it's funny I but I read I have like the book of the Coen brothers interviews and I've read all the interviews I like read I like the interviews with them and listen to a lot of interviews with them but I haven't seen all of the

there's a few that are missing but they're a oh they're just they're amazing and I'm also just fascinated by brothers and that type of dynamic. But I will say that, you know, I didn't know far ago, I didn't know much about the show when I, but I will say that when I did, when I saw the poster, that was like that knitted. Yes. I remember thinking, this is going to be good. I don't know why. Like, I know you can't judge a book by its cover, but it was a good, I liked the poster, I loved the knitted, and then, you know, Colin Hanks, and then Martin Freeman, I just was like, you know, those are good actors. And, oh, and I was so, I love the first season, so much, Billy Bob Thorpe, it's just so, and you're right, it, it's, it's, yeah, it's like,

it's related, but it, they become their own thing, but you know, it's cool. And this is just from watching it and loving them through the years. It's not even, well, I guess it should be called Fargo, but in a way, it could be any of them because they're full of references from all of the films. And it's so neat to see that. And, you know, I, but I don't think, like, when we were a shoot, like, I don't, like, on a day-to-day basis, I'm thinking about Noah. and what Noah I just go you what is he going to do and then he knows how he wants it to go and so because I think he really turned it into his own type of a thing and he's such an incredible person talk about like um like a how would you like a like a like I hate to say but like um like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a.

a starting pitcher who is a closer. Okay. Like a, like a. He's intimidatingly smart to come in, throw six pitches and the game is over. Like he's very, um, efficient and very articulate.

For me, it's so helpful. If I don't know what someone, I need, like I think I just need someone to over explain. So I don't fully grasp things. And he's able to do it in a very economic way.

And like, just make up in examples like we'll be doing this scene and he'll walk over and say he like ice cream let's try it okay but i but i know what he sounded great got it like he knows just what to say that can it's kind of fire the right synapse yeah the novelist and stuff but yeah i love the i love the cones i love i love miller's crossing so good so much i love you know, obviously Big Lebowski. I saw that. I mean, I saw...

We're all on Hutzucker Proxy. Have you seen that one? Hutzker Proxy is the one I haven't seen. That's the one... I figured that one starts to skip by. See, those are the two that I didn't see. That's my hole. That's my area.

You won't be disappointed. Hudson Sucker Proxies is one of my pet favorites, even though it's not generally considered. It was like a flop for them. It's like when they actually got a lot of money and got a big movie star, Paul Newman, do it, but it's hysterical. I love it all.

I mean, I love, I just love that they're, that they're just always making things. I know. They're so consistent. You know, you know, for the first time, they're temporarily at least breaking up. Joel Cohen directed a movie without Ethan. This first time ever, I mean, it sounds amazing.

It's an adaptation of Macbeth with Denzel Washington and Francis McDormand that they've filmed, but it's just the Joel Cohen movie. It's the first, so. Coen brother movie. Why no reason? I don't know. I'm sure they're still cool, but like for whatever reason.

Intriguing. Hey, I asked you to pick a comfort movie and you sent me a few, but I want to jump into one in particular because it obviously has huge resonance with your life and career because we already talked about Bill Murray and he obviously was such an influence

early on and remains, I would think. Why did you choose, why is Groundhog Day a comfort movie for you? Well, first of all, I'll tell you the real reason. And I'm going to start it off by saying that I don't believe in ghosts. I'm just going to say that out loud for any of the ghosts that might be around. I don't believe in you.

Why don't you believe in me? You're not real. You're not real. So sometimes I really don't believe. But I have a. an active imagination and sometimes traveling, you know, or even here, I don't know what happened, but I have a hard time, like sometimes going to bed, just turning off the TV, or just turning up good night to myself and just into the bed, and my wife, my wife can just be like,

I'm tired, going to bed, boom, I'm just like, wow. And if I'm alone, I have a hard time, there's a there's a silence to the darkness when you turn off those lights it's like and as much as I don't believe in goes I have had just over the years nights when I just don't feel right or whatever like in a in a place where I'm spending a night and so I have found that if I put on a movie and just have it on all night long in the room creating like a light, like the glowing of the movie, and the sound. I just go right to bed. I don't watch it.

I just go to bed. And I guess in a way, it's to sort of fill the room with joy. Or to overpower any of my worried feelings. And, you know, when I had like my VHS player, it was like, I had it originally, I had one of those VHS players where the second the movie stopped, it just went and round, and I could just start it again. And so I got in this habit in high school of watching movies when I'd go to bed if I was feeling funky. What I found was that Groundhog's Day was the ultimate movie to be falling asleep and waking up to throughout the night.

Because you have no idea where it's the perfect movie to watch over and over again. Like dropping on any moments, it kind of all works. And I guess it's just like, it makes me so happy that movie that if I'm afraid, it just kind of makes things less scary in the room. Yeah. I guess that's what I go to when you say comfort, because like people say comfort food,

and you know, it's like you kind of has like almost like a, sometimes it's like a negative kind of tape, you know, or whatever, just like to say, indulgence, yeah. And I don't really go to movies in that way, music, but more, so I don't use them for like, I'm so, I'm upset and I mean to put out a movie. I think I'm lonely or I'm curious or I feel confused or put out a movie. Sad, more music maybe, but, but yeah, there's something, but I think if I think if

if I'm afraid, it's, that's what I want. For instance, on airplanes, I'm not, like, afraid of flying anything, but I always have a spinal tap on my iPad. It's the one movie I always have on it. So whenever, I'll just be, you know, if there's turbulence and just feels like buckle your seatbelt, I just say, hi, I'm Marty DeBurgey.

I just like start watching spinal tap. And, yeah, I mean, I watch And it just, yeah, it's more, it's sort of like to counter, like an antidote. Yeah, to unease, to uncertainty or uncertainty, whatever the word is, this is, you know what this is, this is, this will always make you feel a certain way. I mean, ground movie is an interesting one because it's one that, I mean, I think a lot of people would agree with you. And I'm trying to figure out what the secret sauce is of that movie because it is unique. It's a high concept movie. it's very funny but it's also kind of deeply profound

I feel like they're probably been more like think of pieces and college papers written about round all day than any other comedy the last 30 years did you read that interview there was like a there was like a whole thing in the New York or years ago like about the making of that movie no I don't maybe I have or maybe I haven't certainly I know that like infamously

Harold Ramos who of course directed it and Bill it was it was a bit of a tense shoot they didn't talk for many years afterwards apparently up until when Harold was close to passing thankfully they did resolve their differences but no I didn't I didn't I need to place up

I only spread a little bit I was just going to say that because there was a from what I gather you probably know like the movie had a different ending right I don't know something was more

something was more, I believe there was like a version of it which was more explained. Oh, of like why he was going through that. I was one of my questions I was going to bring up is like do you think that's part of why it works is that they never even bother to like explain the device? Yes, I think so. I mean I don't know it's to me I can't point to it exactly but it's in that tradition of almost like you know, you know older films you know from the 40s 50 you know where something magical sort of takes place brigadoon or something like

where there's just this this is just this is a fact this yeah to get it now let's yeah yeah and and um and if you're trying to figure it out

you're you're already just go it you know and I and I do when it's well done it's great I mean sometimes I'm like what but you know I think also Groundhog Day uh to me is like I think it's also just makes you feel comfortable to see someone doing something on the highest level.

Yes. And Bill was just firing on all cylinders. Yes, absolutely. I also, if I, like, if I were to, I don't have a real comfort food, but I feel like if I did, I would want to make the best of something. Like, I was like, I would want the best French fries. Right. Do you know what I mean?

Like, I'd want to put something in to counter talks, the other things. thing. And so I feel like, it's like when you watch that movie, it's like, oh, there is beauty. You know, you see his performance, just little things. Yeah. You know, it's just little, you know, and to me, that's just the kind of stuff. That's what I love about movies and music when I see something. And I just go, oh, it's just like, you just, you don't know why even. If I know why I like something, it's actually, yeah, it's the mystical part of it that makes it interesting. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. It's that intangible quality. I'm more interested if I'm like, God, I love it, and I don't know why.

Yeah. How is your relationship with Bill evolved over the years? I mean, you've worked with him a number of times by now. I think he's crossed past a bunch of Wes's films. It must be, right? I mean, looking back, it's just such a unique circumstance to have a debut like you had opposite such a unique actor like Bill, who was unique for a thousand different reasons. Yeah.

he's not really an act he's kind of like zeus or something yeah he's more of like one of the god he's like a or something um you know my relationship with bill is that um i love him so deeply and if i could like you know if when you pass away your life should flash before you you know uh or you see moments of your life for like offhand like the 10 moments that I could will remember of my life he's in like six of them and then not even like the best thing that happened in my life it just like that was unbelievable I can't forget that yeah and um uh at the same time uh you know I respect his his life his privacy and you know I don't he he's got you know his own I'm not like

like, you know, texting. Right. There's always going to be a little bit of a distance. Maybe that's too strong a word. I just feel like he's, you know, he's an amazing person. And I love him and he's an artist. And he's working. He's got a lot of stuff going on.

And when I see him, it's awesome. And when I see him, it's, I remember when I was like, when we on Rushmore, we were, working and forget what it was but it was something like can I just make up a hypothetical situation we're just but this is you're going to understand the feeling it's like a bike tire explodes on a person who's passing by and he says oh here I get you just take a you don't have a t-shirt if you take a t-shirt and you wrap it up you can put it inside the bike tire yeah and then you put this gum on it and

and it adheres to it. Now you should be able to ride that back home. Wow. How did you know that? Then, like, the next day, like, someone comes over and he says, Boucher, you do Guadal, Sito. And I spoke, I lived in France. And, yeah, well, France, you know, it's amazing.

But if you're going to live in France, you've got to live on the street. And it's just you realize that this person is, they go from being a single blade to slightly two knives. And then you realize this is a Swiss Army knife. And it's like, one of these ones that's like this wide with a magnifying glass of that and i remember distinctly being uh 17 just going i want to know all of this kind of stuff um how does he know all of this

how um how does one learn to do this and um and i realized that uh you learn to do it because you're him because you say yes to life and to adventure and you are not afraid and that's why I'm more of a plus pair of pliers one like a pair of pliers I'm a little he just you know so I remember by so when I see him it's just that kind of like I just I love him and I just I love him and I I just, and I have so many incredible experiences with them. And, you know, I'll also tell you, like, he, like, has done so many wonderful things and said so many things to me that really I think about to this day. I mean, there's one thing that he told me the night before work, and I still don't

really understand what it means, but I think about it every day on every job I've had. Okay, what is it? where we were we were we had just met the day before and we we had rehearsed and we walked back to his hotel room and i said something i said how do you know when you're in character now that you keep in mind i'm about to start work tomorrow with him i've never acted before and he said i'm a character i said how do you know when you're in character and he said how much do you weigh and i said like 140 pounds he goes do you feel 140 pounds in your feet? And I said, I don't know, no. When you do, then you're there. And I thought, okay. And I think about it all the time, because I've never felt the weight in my feet. But I always ask myself, like, do I feel it in my feet? I also ask myself, how much do I away. But that kind of

beautiful, I don't know. Yeah, no, I hear you. When your deathbed, you're going to finally feel it. You're going to be like, Bill, I get it now. I feel 140,000. Every time I see him, there's one line he'll say where I remember when we were doing Darjean Limited, he was watching me.

He'd come to watch, and that's also something. You want to talk about people watching you on set, like the crew. I really don't like it with other actors come to watch because they just are thinking, can I just get in there, please? And so anyway, it's like, have you watched the making of We Are the World? Just everyone's just like, can I just do it for one second? Can I just sing this verse?

I'm not used to waiting. People wait for me, yeah. And so, but after my first day of work, Bill said, I was so freaked out. I didn't understand what I was going to do it. And he said something that he saw me doing. and then I used that as I was like oh that's what I will do then thank you he goes I like your guy he's sharp he cuts like glass and I was like yeah I know and that's what I'm doing it's what I'm doing the whole time yep yep but that's what I kept the whole time so you know I

appreciate him I mean I'm more of an indoor kid than a lot of these I don't really get out so much I was thrilled he murdered me last year on the set of zombie land I played myself and Bill Murray killed me. It was a moment, Jason. How was that? I mean, as you said, every moment with him is precious, and you feel like you're with a Zen master, so I will, that would be one of the memories I take to my... He's like a martial art master. Like, you know what else about him is amazing is he's able to read and misread,

but the same way, I mean, like a set of people's energy in the room. he's like a do you know what I mean like he can just read he can look around and just has a feeling that person right there I'm gonna go up to that person and I'm gonna shake up their jelly yeah well and I get the sense because I've seen him also in like publicity kind of settings

and stuff and like I've moderated some things with him and it feels like he knows how he changes the energy in a room and he doesn't necessarily want that like he wants like to interact with people and like kind of very like base level and kind of is really good at kind of diffusing the pomp and circumstance that people put people on a pedestal for. Yeah. And, you know, he's also just a dangerous guy in general because he's physically big. Yeah. You know he could beat people up. And he also can, he's a frightening. He's the most frightening two bullies because he can embarrass you.

Yeah. Smartest guy in the room. Yeah. Yeah. But he's just, you know, people say Bill Murray, whatever. Like, I said this before, but like, it's like my whole life like here like in my whole life people there was always this a calculator right that's a very old school calculator that jason is showing me but and this is new but it looks old but there was always a calculator and people say well no when i was a kid we didn't have you know it's like that like bill is this like there's just always bill murray yeah yeah i don't there wasn't anything before. I know. I don't want to know life without Bill Murray. Yeah, it's like we're talking about with my son with all this stuff. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, it's just he is an element. He's air, water, fire, and Bill Murray. Um, I don't want to take up too much of your time

today, buddy, but I do want to mention, I'm excited that, I mean, at some point, I guess we're going to get to see French dispatch. Yeah. Um, you, so you have a story credit on. So this is one of those that you collaborated obviously very closely with Wes on. How does, is this, is this, was this a unique different kind of a collaboration versus the, um, you? others. I'm sure everyone has its own kind of way it works. How did this one out? Yeah, it was really fun. I mean, um, it's working, uh, with Wes is just a, you know, it's, we were talking earlier about like being embarrassed. And, uh, I think one of the nice things about working with like, with him is he's, and I don't mean this to sound negative, but he's seen me like it be so in such,

be so bad for at such like not low points in my life but just like not highs yeah all the shades of and therefore and therefore there you can get to the work more quickly there's kind of less like pillow talk or or or I guess pillow talk isn't stalling but like actors there's a lot of stalling sometimes where you're just like in pleasantries and just being, yeah, yeah. And I think when someone knows you so well, you just go. And it makes it harder because then that you have to be, you hold each other accountable. Like, it's like, you are holding, you can do more, like, they know where you can go. And so I think that it's, it's such an interesting, like you were saying I've been working for 20-something years. And I, and I realize

it's so, like, how many people, I mean, how many people are you friends with that you've been friends with for 20 years? Yeah. I mean, so it's very odd that I've been working with, have a friend that I've been working with. And it's just, it's very, I mean, it's not something also that I, like I assume will happen every time or take for granted. Like, you know, it's always exciting when it comes around and it knows experiences like with

the writing, you know, it's really, I learned so much. and it's very intense and it takes a long time, you know, like it'll take, it takes a long time to work on him. But it's, I always feel like I learn so much. And he's like, he's, he's the best. Our relationship is so based around like, well, just making each other laugh and stuff, but also and but being like I can just be myself yeah he was the first person that was like not in my family that

like looked at me and talked to me like I was like not a kid but that was like a he was like what do you think and it didn't feel like it was like he was asking me out of like pity or like it was and I felt like

this person actually wants to know what I'm thinking well he put I mean a huge responsibility on you at a very pivotal point in his career. But just to this day, even, there's just like, I mean, also, you know, he's my, I would say he's my mentor in a classic way because, you know, when I met him, I was 17 and I was a big, I loved movies, but it was my movie, like, what I was interested in was, like, more like, like the movie Human Highway, Neil Young, or like Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club

band or like super fuzz the peanut butter solution like just these kinds of things that were on cable I guess like right adventures of Rima Williams we should have done that as the comfort movie I loved all that I loved them but I hadn't but like like records were like oh like you know when I was having a hard time and so when I started to when I met West said really it was the kind of the beginning of him saying well look at there's all of these movies and we watched all these movies together and we talked about them and and i listened to music a lot and so our that our relationship still is so based on like sharing yeah like look what movie i found or look at this record right got like and just um kind of like turning each other on to things

what can i expect from french dispatch have you seen the final cut i've seen yeah I will tell you when I watched it, but my reaction to it's a little bit different. I'll just tell you when we were talking about it in writing, it was so wild because we're writing about this place in such detail that's not real. And then when I got to the set and it was real, I just thought this is the most beautiful thing that one can do in their life. like you can say there's this you can describe something that doesn't exist and then a few months later it does and it looks amazing it's just how you pictured it yeah and the movie i think is wonderful and i think that it's really um it's got so much so many stories that it's so intertwined and it's really something that you know we put you know a lot into it i'm sure like you can say a lot thought about a, Wes doesn't half-ass it. He puts his heart and soul into every shot and I know it's going to be there. I won't, I won't burn up the rest of your day. I, as I'll repeat what I said at the outset, you are a comforting presence always. And I'm thrilled to see you even in these

bizarre times, especially in these bizarre times. Please. And we'll, we'll catch up in better days. And everybody, as I said before, Fargo is a special piece of work, Noel Hawley, obviously, is a Remarkable storyteller, season four, whatever, iteration four, we want to say, wait, are you, what are you doing? Are you doing some drilling? Jason. Oh, fuck, man. I was trying to be nice and not you have goggled. Okay. Is this the rest of your day? You just go to the wood shop? What? Never mind. I've been getting into woodworking and engraving. Everybody check out Fargo. Thanks, Jason. Thank you. That was fun. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused.

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