Happy Sad Confused - Jay Baruchel

Episode Date: August 31, 2017

You know and love Jay Baruchel from "Undeclared", "This is the End", and "How to Train Your Dragon" but forget acting, what's always wanted to do is direct! And finally he's doing just that, helming "Goon: Last of the Enforcers", a sequel to his beloved 2012 hockey flick, "Goon". Jay joins Josh this week for a massive film nerd geek out. Jay waxes poetic on the films and filmmakers he loves, why he approached his directing debut the way he did, and so much more. Plus, Jay discusses at length the amazing "Justice League" film that almost was in amazing detail AND why he'll never leave Canada plus his exciting new comic book venture.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get tickets now. This week on Happy Sad Confused, Jay Barrichelle on being a proud Canadian making his directing debut and the Justice League movie that got away. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused My podcast. Say hi, Sammy. Hi, Sammy. No, that's the two literal. I take direction very well. Sammy just got back from the VMAs doing stellar work on the cost.

carpet and backstage and all sorts of nooks and crannies of the VMAs. What was your favorite part of the VMAs? I watched it all. What was your favorite performance? Rod Stewart. Yes. Honestly, you could be joking, but it's real. He was there, I remember.

Rod Stewart performed. Made everyone feel really comfortable and happy. Yeah, exactly. I felt uncomfortable on my couch in New York. Yeah, it was really great. So, yes, so welcome back to New York. Thank you so much. It's good to be back.

You're a shell of a woman now. It's really depressing. But you were a show of a woman already. Yeah. It's just a little worse now. I've been here holding the fort down and apologies again for a little bit of a break. But the good news is that I was just telling Sammy about some of the upcoming guests. You guys are going to freak out.

Got a lot of people coming the next few weeks. And we're also not even going to observe the normal kind of weekly thing. You're going to get a couple of folks at a time, one or two episodes a week, at least the next couple weeks. So a lot of cool guests, some returning guests. Be ready for anything. You will be pleased. There will be blood. There will be guests.

And this week's guest, hopefully you guys will be pleased with. He is Jay Barrichelle, who of course you know from many great films. Undeclared was his first big TV show that kind of broke him out. This is The End. Sorcerer's Apprentice. He's been in a lot of weird, like, kind of random stuff. This is the end is the big one for me. And like knocked up to all the boat.

Of course, not up. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. You're welcome. But we also talk. about a film that has kind of gained cult status in recent years, a film called Goon, that he, I believe he co-wrote it and he started in it a few years back, and it starred Sean William Scott, and it's about kind of like an enforcer, like a kind of a, not the smartest guy,

but like an enforcer on a hockey team. And it's a really sweet kind of rocky-ish story that I was really taken with when I saw it a few years back. It was, I think I saw it on VOD, and I was just kind of like shocked by, not that I wasn't expecting it to be good, but I'd heard some good buzz about it and Sean William Scott's great in it and Leah F. Schreiber was great in it and Jay's good in it as well and now in the sequel

Jay has assumed the directing duties as well. He's also in the film of course but this is his big feature directing debut. I was going to say is this his first. Yeah. So it's called Goon Lass of the Enforcers. It's out this Friday in theaters, I believe on VOD etc. And you guys should check it out

if you're, I'm not even a hockey fan. I've never followed hockey at all but it's a good it's a really good movie and it's well directed and you're going to hear in this conversation the passion that jay has as a filmmaker um he's always wanted to direct even before he was an actor and um like truly he is a film geek's geek he knows his stuff and um as you can imagine when the two of us got together we really geeked out in a lot of cool things um nerd explosion uh and one thing i do want to mention i mean a couple things i want to mention i want to mention the fact that um he is i mentioned kind of the intro uh he's a very practical

And it's kind of like, it's kind of a beautiful thing, a proud Canadian. He lives in Toronto, and he has chosen to kind of like make his life's work about creating great films and great roles and great art in Canada. You know, he obviously has opportunities in the states and he works in the states here and there. But he's chosen to make his life where he grew up. And, you know, it's, they hear him talk so passionately about it. I think it's kind of contagious. And it's, he's carved out a really cool career. He's also now, like, part owner of a big. like Canadian comic book company. So he's just like making a cool life for himself there. And Gune is an extension of that. And the one on the film geek side, I want to mention, to kind of tease you guys that are just tuning in now, is he was cast a few years back,

well, actually a long time ago now, in a George Miller film that was going to be called Justice League. I think it was called Justice League Mortal. And it was Army Hammer, was playing Batman. Do you know about this, Sammy? Have you ever told you about this? This is a crazy story.

story. I'm like Mad Max, Jordan Miller? Like the same George Miller? So it was before Fury Road and it was Army Hammer as Batman. I love that. I mean, DJ Catrona, who I met a couple times, a very sweet guy. I think he's on from Dustal Dawn still on El Ray, who was playing Superman. I forget who was playing Wonder Woman. There was a Wonder Woman. Teresa Palmer was playing a bad guy. And Jay Baruchel was playing the bad guy. Max well lord and there have been many stories about this production it's fascinating so what happened basically the plug was pulled by the studio like right before it went into they were all in australia they had done costumes they'd done read-throughs they were rehearsing and then they were like eh never mind basically so there's an extended conversation in this interview more than frankly i've ever heard myself about what that film was going to be so i think if you if you're a superhero fan and if you're a fan of George Miller like myself stay tuned for that because that is

I think a special part of this conversation and I was really geeking out on what that project would have been it's one of the great like unrealized film projects of all time so so yeah come for goon but stay for Justice League talk and that's about it like I said there's going to be another couple a few podcasts coming up in the next couple weeks that you guys should keep a lookout for Sammy and I are going to be headed to the Toronto Film Festival TIF?

TIF, as they say. Tiff and as the industries... Did I ever tell you how Kristen Stewart made fun of me when I called it TIF? No, what happened? It was a few years back, and I was interviewing Kristen. We were sitting down the chat, and I think my first, like, I don't even know who was on camera. It might have been on camera. I hope it's on camera.

I was like, how's your TIF going? And she looked at me, and she was like, TIF. It sounds like you asked her something dirty. Is that what you call it? And I was like, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't trying to sound smart. I thought that's what people called it.

No, that's what George Miller calls it. It's the Toronto International Film Festival, TIF. Oh, fuck you, Christm Stewart. No, no, it's all good. It's all good. So, yes, if you see Chris and Stewart ask her how her Tiff is going. She'll be enraged. She will just slap you.

She will punch you in the face. No. So, yeah, anyway, I'm looking forward to that. It's always one of my favorite festivals. and a lot more good stuff. We're going to also do a sketch next week that I know you're very excited about. Everyone's going to freak out, including me.

More to come on all of that. Enough jibber-jabbering. Let's hear from Jay Barrishell and remember to check out Goon Last of the Enforcers out of September 1st. I was saying to your purposes, actually, surprisingly, despite being at MTV for 30,000 years, I don't think we've talked,

or if we have only a couple times. So it's a real pleasure to see you today. Likewise, man. Thank you for him. having me. I'm a big fan of your work. Oh, thanks. And we're going to talk about a lot of things.

Most importantly, everybody needs to check out Goun Last of the Enforcers. I'm honestly a big fan of this. And I was a huge fan of Gune, like, what, five or six years ago? Five years ago, yeah. And it was one of those things where, like, I think I saw it like a VOD or something, to be honest. And I was like, this is so charming, so winning. Oh, cool. A great ensemble.

And I'm so pleased that it's done so well for you, too. Thanks, man. sequel. Yeah, thank you. It's, it's, um, so are we. And, uh, yeah, we're just, um, these movies mean a lot to everyone involved. And they're, and I think a testament to that is like how many of the people from the first time we were able to get back. And, um, and it was just like, it's not always like that. Sometimes you're on a set and everyone's just trying to do their best. And other times you're on a set and everyone has a sort of unity of vision. And we all kind of, there's something in the water and you can just kind of sense that we all,

get what this could be and how cool this could be and the first goon was one of those and um and yeah it took us a minute because we wanted to do it right um you know we we didn't rush this into production to try to you know keep the party going you know it was like we had stories that and and stuff that we wanted to tell uh we just wanted to make sure we could do it in the best way possible and with the the the uh requisite means to do the to tell the story we needed to tell well and i was frankly Harden when I finally, you know, got the chance to see the new one in that, like, you do have basically the band back together. And you have, you know, Leave, who, like, you know, he's, for a decade, he's had an amazing

career, 20 years. And it's like, oh, is he going to be in one scene? No, he's, like, major. Yeah. Yeah. He's got a heavy lifting to do in our flick. Yeah, yeah. And then you add someone like, I mean, I'm sure you're now big fan as I am of Wyatt.

Yeah. Who seems like. Wyatt's amazing. Why it's amazing. And I'm, like, so proud. because this is like his one of the biggest parts he's played yet

and not only that it's also a million miles away from if people know him what they know him for which is usually sort of goofy stoner in you know and like in the link ladder movie and all that stuff but there's a hell of an actor in there

and I'm sure down to a bunch of things not the least of which is his pedigree you know he grew up at Russell, of course. Grew up in the right house. And having worked with his dad and knowing his dad, I've like ordered now two generations of Russell men, and I can see they, if you can,

work with either of them. They are so hardworking and easy to be around and just get it. And I hate using terms like just get it, but they just do kind of. And it was super cool that like the night before I was meant to Skype with Wyatt to convince him to do the movie, Kurt called me Tipsy from New Orleans

telling me that his son called to ask him for advice and he never does and that he was thinking about doing this goon too and Kurt said he cut him off right there and said listen I'm biased

yeah I just want you to know he goes I love Jay Barrelchelle I don't he goes I don't know about the first movie but I know that this one's going to be better because he's directing it you got to do it you got to meet him you'll either fall in love with them or not

he goes and I'm just like I'm just looking forward to being proud with you guys at the premiere so like it was like Kurt Russell's a huge part of casting Wyatt in my movie it's pretty cool that's amazing

one of the great pleasures of this podcast is having like the people like you grew up with and Kurt was in here like a year oh amazing amazing

oh my god to like talk to you know Snake Pliskin there's so many he's everything you want him he is and he loves chatting it up

and he loves telling the story like some guys I've you know 20 plus years I've been acting and some of the old guys and girls don't love talking about some stuff

and some stuff is of like some stuff that you care about is irrelevant to them you know like I've many times you know eating crow for going out of the limb to give somebody love and having them like diminish it in this in a second and it's I mean I'll call it out

I remember this isn't like saying anything bad about a person but I remember talking to Gary Oldman's like I'm revere and like mentioning fifth element and him being like oh god so for me it was coronavirus I got to work with Kronenberg, and I just told him, I was like, I want to hear about videodrome, man. And his answer was, that's old shit.

And that was the end of the conversation about a videodrome. I was like, yeah, fair, fair. But Kurt loves to tell stories and loves, and he really, he knows how cool it is the life he's had. And he knows that the reason he's had a cool life is because people love his movies. And so he's like, when he meets someone, especially someone our age who, you know, were kids growing up with his movies it's a really big deal for him

and so that that was the coolest by far yeah he had no he had no trouble dropping into like Jack Burton quotes right my brain just melted it's amazing that's amazing um I know that like directing I've been following your career and reading up on some of the stuff you've been talking about lately in support of this film that directing is not something you've just come too lightly

this is this if anything this was the thing you actually wanted to yeah honestly man and and I and I hate and I always worry when I say that the people infer that I, like, am disrespectful to acting or don't, but, but no, it's just acting has been very good to me and to my family, and I've gotten to do some pretty awesome stuff all the same. My dreams have been on hold for 20 plus years, and, like, nine was when I knew I wanted to direct. 12 was my first year on set, and even at 12, mom said to me, you want to go to film school, being on set's the best film school in the world, so I've been

on film school for 20 years. It's not like I have nothing to prove as an actor. I don't have anything I haven't done to me that I need to get out there. I have loads to prove

and loads of story inside of me as a director and loads of stories I want to tell. And so acting was always a means to an end. It's not something like I loved and then after being on enough sets I was like, oh, I think I could maybe do that.

Like, you know, so I don't know that that's the right reason to be a director because and I'm going to get waxed super religious and poetic here, but I think cinema is the greatest art form the world has ever come up with. And I think in the 21st century, there's precious little that's sacred. One of the few things that I see is sacred is the relationship between so that makes a movie in the audience.

And I think that to get to be a director is one of the world's great privileges. and so and I and it um and I've worked for directors that I think that was lost on right you know and or whom I think that was lost on and I and I it was a job yeah and took it for granted or didn't seem to like have a bunch of burning need to do something and sort of yeah it's fine it was sort of journeyman I guess I suppose but like I I just like I have a uh I live in the gutter ferment I could I could direct again like that's like I'm constantly

threatening to sell my house if it helps finance something like I will do whatever it takes I'll bleed for my shit so um so this was a very big deal obviously so what can we talk a little bit about kind of reference points and falling in love with kind of movies in terms of like what were when did you kind of fall in love with the church that is

synonymous so the kind of flashpoints of my childhood would be mom and dad not just showing me Monty Python the Holy Grail but pausing it constantly to explain to me the mechanics of the joke that was just on screen

literally mom would like pause at a funny caption or a funny bit of credits and she'd be like this is called dry humor and you see how he referenced the dancing mule earlier that's as a callback and they would literally like it was a very proactive kind of film and comedy education

and then And then it was dad, the first tape dad bought me for my ninth birthday. I think it was a Ferris Bueller's Day Off on VHS. And my parents, to their credit, kept getting me movies. I kept buying movies. And they kept getting books about movies. Like when I was a kid, there weren't a ton of dinosaur books in my room. It was all either film critiques or I'd get the, like, in-house guide that a video store has

of, like, every all inventory available right now. so I would just spend hours in my room reading synopsies, reading reviews, committing to memory plots and then directors and actors and movies I've never seen and I just memorize all of them and then on top of that every Friday night

and Saturday night dad would rent a minimum of one usually two movies and if I woke up the next day and the next morning and the tape was still in the machine it meant I was allowed to watch it and I was always up before my folks

if it was back in this case it meant it was too racy but what this translated to is it looks like is like every weekend for most of my childhood two to four movies no matter what no matter what and like I said I get up early before my folks so it was me and the movie and

I haven't stopped collecting I'm like I'm still the putts that buys hard copies I buy Blu-rays like I it's a point of pride that my house I've got like five bookshelves filled with DVDs and Blu-Rays and I still buy them and I like that collection

How are they organized? Oh, yeah, alphabet. Not genre, not director. Not yet. I had to get them up there first. It was a two-day, three or four-person job. My friends, my friends earned brownie points those days. So what was, you know, Canadian cinema for you growing up?

Did that mean, you mentioned Kronoberg. I mean, you mentioned Kronoberg, obviously he comes to the top of the list. But like, what did that mean to you growing up? He was my hero. And still is. And especially as I got to be like a teenager and became a big Fangoria kid and knowing that like he wasn't just a guy, he was the guy. Like every horror director wishes they were David Cronenberg. Like he's the he's the horror director that gets like a fancy person cred.

And it was always a point of pride to me that like not just a horror director but the world's best horror director not only is Canadian but made all his films in Canada and still lives in Canada. And that was such a inspiration because we grow up seeing all of our best kind of exported super early. The only time I'd see Canadian celebrities or anything like in Canada was when work dried up for them elsewhere. And then they'd come home because the CBC is the only place I would hire them. And it like leaves a really sour taste in your mouth. And that coupled with never going to the cinema and seeing a movie that takes place where you're from. has a strange cultural repercussion. And I think, like, Americans and Brits take it for granted

that you go to your cinema and your cinema is a reflection of your country and your culture. Well, it's not like that in Canada. All right, we go to our cinema, and it's all foreign films. American, but that's still foreign. That's not ours. So I knew that I was going to give my life to Canadian cinema for better or worse at about 15, 16.

And how I'd reasoned it out of my head because I was still a child actor at that point was like work will probably dry out for me around 18, 19. If I've saved any money, I'll go to film school. When I'm done film school, if I have anything left, I will live off of that. If I don't, I'll just get a job. Hopefully, the

video store was the goal. And then I'll just write straight to videos and try and get them made. Because there wasn't, I'm a video kid. So I love going to the movie theater. Of course I do. And some of my greatest memories are in the movie theater. But most are it. Most are at home.

And we, we didn't discern. We would rent whatever look cool. And there's a, you know, and I, like I talked to Rogan about this, about how there's all these movies that we watched when you're kids in Canada that we didn't realize never came out in theaters. They were just like cool looking stuff on the shelf that we rented. And so I got exposed to all sorts of stuff.

And I never thought that it was like beneath somebody to make a straight-to-video. Like I was like, if I make movies, if I get to write and direct a movie and someone funds it, that's all there is. I don't care about the size of the audience. That's neither here nor there. I just want to be able to make movies. So that was the goal. That was the mission I was on.

And then at 18, I got hired in the States on Undeclared. And I'm not, please, I am not complaining about the American career I've had since then. But all the same, I thought I'd be getting into this at 18, 19, 20, and I'm now 35. So it's like, and, you know, because also when you're a film nerd, you have stupid, mile markers that you want to hit like you're aware of how old Brana was when he did Henry the 5th or Orson Wells. That's they fucking do man

And so I was like I want to The goal was to get I if I can't get Orson's number 23 or 24 I want to get Brana 26 but I miss both But it's not like I wasn't doing anything else cool So you know Totally I mean it's funny if Brana comes up on this podcast all the time Because I was obsessed with him as a kid

Partially because of what he was doing but also because he was like, yeah, he was so young, he was relatable in a way, even though if he was doing Henry V, was a little beyond my, my small brain. It's still like, oh, God, this guy's like... He adapted, adapted Shakespeare. I made it cool and, like, directed it, and started in it, and he was 26. Like, it's, it's, yeah, those people spoil it for the rest of us. You know, there'll always be somebody who did it earlier.

So, and backtrack, even before undeclared, I know, fellow guest of this podcast Alicia Cuthbert have a similarity in that your kind of big break was popular mechanics which I know is even was a big thing for you

still in Canada yes it is it's still the thing that I think her and I get recognized for the most I'm sure when people do it they're well aware that we've had careers after

but they think they're being quite clever um time was that kind of like were you self-aware enough to know like this is not what I want to do but hey it's kind of cool like it was definitely I knew

it wasn't what I want want to do, I didn't enjoy doing that show a ton because acting is what you just described of like, it's not what I want to do, but it's cool. Hosting is, is, is not, you know, and, and, you know, think about how shitty you feel about yourself when you're 15 and, and, yeah, and you're in a whole other like, oh, fucking hell. And I was like, I didn't, I didn't get my gross part until I was 17. So I was like an undersized kid at 15 with all the hormones that any 15 year old. has um and yet i was like doing this goofy thing like i'll never forget this like this fucking

great like this is the this is i can this sums up how i feel about popular mechanics as best i can as two two events one was going to bristol connecticut at five in the morning to go to the otis elevator testing facility to pretend that i was interested in how elevators are tested uh so it's just not interesting it just isn't uh and then number two as we were doing the um uh the beginning, middle, and end, like our talky bits for our roller coaster amusement park episode. And so we were at La Ronde, the amusement park of Montreal. And, but it was open. It was like a summer day, and it was open.

And there's all these people in my age out having teenage lives and falling in love. And I was just like, hi, guys. So we're going to talk about centrifugal force. And I remember posting up, they decided, in their infinite wisdom, they decided the best place for me to do these throws was at the foot at the entrance of the biggest roller coaster at Lorone, Le Monst the monster. And

I will never forget these three fucking asshole Anglo kids. It's a Montreal you're Anglo or you're Franco and these are Anglos. These are in my side of the city and these fucking three asshole kids. There's an idiot, idiot's girlfriend and idiot's friend. And

I see them pointing and they're whispering and they're making fun and she's got his arm around him and they're laughing at my expense and I'm just like this is this is a fate worse than I know I'm being paid it doesn't change it and um and then they start and they're like the psychological repercussions of this will last and they go all right action

Jay and as they say action Jay and I start doing my throw the roller coaster starts to go up and idiot's friend this ginger in a backwards baseball cap just goes faggot! And I was like so back to centrifugal force and hopefully I don't kill myself today

yeah yeah so it was But, but, that being said, I did get to see some cool shit. I got to spend three nights on the USS Eisenhower aircraft carrier in the U.S. Navy. That was pretty cool. I got to spend a day on a Trident submarine at dock, but that was still quite neat. I got to spend a day behind the scenes working with all the guys at the Universal Studio stunt spectacular. So, and I got to, on our special effects episode, I got to hang out with these prosthetic makeup artists and see all of that stuff.

And like I said, I was a fango kid. So that was real cool. So there was some cool shit. But more often than not, it was just like, you know, because also when you're a kid,

do you, when you're 15, do you like 15 year old stuff? No. You like 20, 30 year old facing stuff. And so no 15 year old wants to be hosting a kid show. You know, like I'm saying,

yeah. Do you still get offered posting things? Because people still see that at the beginning of the resume? I do. I don't enjoy it. But I've hosted one just for last gala, and then I hosted one award show. In Canada, there's a thing called the Polaris Prize, which is once a year. Tom Music Critics in Canada vote the best record, and they give it $30,000, whoever it is.

That can be a first time, and it can be Drake, literally. And I hosted that one night. That was a fate worse than death. Look at that. So unprofessional. Please. That was a fate worse than death because it was just a room full of history. that had no idea who I was, and they didn't seem to find my sense of humor very funny.

I wrote some, me and Jacob Tierney wrote some wicked fucking jokes for that thing. Wrong, audience. Wrong, audience. No, your audience, the first rule of hosting. Yeah, I suppose so, yeah. So, you mentioned undeclared, which, you know, set your career on a different path, a good path for a while. Did it feel like, I mean, you talk about, those were the years that spawned kind of like the biggest chunk of living in the states, right? Definitely.

So at the time, I mean, you were resolute. sounds like from the beginning like this i'm going to end up back in canada that's that's who i am i want to i want to produce things that reflect my upbringing etc for better or worse that that being said that especially in those first couple years i would think that's when the big the most exciting first opportunity started to come was there any kind of like wrestling with that no no never no i'd argue about it with friends of mine very interesting i think philosophical debate that um friends of mine in the States or from Canada, some of whom are far more famous than I am,

we would have, we'd all, before any of us could get hired, when we were all just like stoners with time to spare in L.A., I was always the movie nerd. We all love movies, but I always could tell everybody who the director was and that this was Andrew Davis' third film and all this stuff.

You know the work of Andrew Davis. Beyond the fugitive, then you know some shit. That's exactly right, man. Yeah, above the law, I think, is number three. No, actually, it's one of the Chuck Norris ones. Anyway, but we'd have this big philosophical debate about, like, what would you rather have? A smaller soapbox, but more control,

and a degree of patriotism or civic duty behind it, or larger soapbox with less control and nothing to do with your country. You know, and the thinking, I was always firmly entrenched on the other, side, the small side, the thinking on the large side was that if you get to a point, if you can navigate and survive the studio system in L.A. and get to the top of it,

you no longer have to suffer those notes and all that stuff. Which, by the way, is horseshit, number one, because what happens is simply by virtue of having gone through it so many times, maybe it's bored of self-defense, you start chest moving those notes.

You start pre-urnalized at all. It's happening anyway. You pre-censor. You've become. the monster you censor before you have to yeah you just assume it's not worth it there's no way they're going to go for this there's no way they're going to go for that that's not this that's not that and i and i and i just find that not for me and and i i'm a i'm a i'm a hollywood film fan i'm like i i love a bunch of independent films but i'm not like some dogma 95 guy like i i love the same movies that we're all talking about here but i i i i i want to

to my country and it sounds like insane because but my country's small and a baby you know like my has 30 million one-tenth of population in this country and who knows if there is a candidate in a hundred years and we are constantly we we we were uh fighting to define our own culture against great britain and then eventually and then that's shifted to finding to define our own culture against the united states and um and i know that let's say i i and and by the way like i if you can get a movie made in the states you should be so fucking lucky you know and and and i and that would be lovely but i would be just another guy and and and it would be a movie if i can make movies back home and i live there and i'm from there and i can get butts in the seats it means something and

there's in our tapestry our sort of shared collective cultural tapestry in canada is is a pretty thin little rug it's there but it's thin i've already added to it with the first goon you know and um and and I can't ever hope to do something like that here, right? And also my mom's family are all soldiers and cops, and I never joined the army, and I never served the way that I've always thought I should. And so there's a way to actually... At least a portion of it, yeah.

Were you ever able to, have you ever discussed any of this with someone like Cronenberg who has committed, as you say, his life to kind of a... I told him that he was like a source of a... inspiration for sure it's not just about what he's done it's it's how he's done it in the way he's done it and that the two weren't mutually exclusive for him that like he wanted his kids to have normal lives and and he also just liked where he lived i think you know and and and if you're kronenberg you get people to come to toronto if you're felina you get people to come to rome if you're peter jackson he'll go to ockland or wellington you know like you can do it it's there to be done and i just think

that people take the convenient path of least resistance more often and then not. I'm headed to Toronto for for TIF very soon. I've been going for almost a decade. Oh, awesome. And I always love it. I mean, you must have a different perspective.

Sure, sure. I've never seen, I don't think I've ever seen a movie at, I've seen one movie at Tiff that I wasn't a part of. Okay. I saw The Witch last year or two years ago. Probably, yeah. And, no, I, I, I only, my intro to Tiff was always through, bringing a movie that I

was in or something and now that I live there I sort of stay clear of downtown while it's happening if I can but what I love what I love about it is that I think it's already

if it hasn't it's about to replace can in terms of its import and its weight and because it's over here and because it's open to the fucking public that's what sets it apart to me and you know all it's i think tiff is missing really is a competition a true competition ala can once because they have juries they do all that stuff they give out awards but

they don't have nothing's in competition if if toronto gets a competition that's it and and and what i love is that it's just so much more humble it's for everyone and yet still the biggest stars in the world come it's it's it's um and it's hours and it's like it's it's anything that gets the world to come to Canada is a big deal for me. So let's talk, I know we've been jumping around, but we should talk more specifically about Goon and its sequel that's about to come out here in the States. I mean, there's a lot

that I love about both of these films. Awesome. I mean, one thing that, I'm struck both times by Sean William Scott's performance. He's amazing. He's truly great. He's got in... Not just good in in comparison to how you think he is. He's just good, period. No, and it sucks

that he hasn't, I don't know if gotten opportunities in recent years or what. I don't know. know where he's at in his personal life or whatever. I think it's like, yeah, I think he got sick of doing riffs on Stifler. Yeah. And, uh, but he's a huge movie nerd. Sean really is. And like, like, like, when Sean and I text, it's literally about like, like, like, four years ago. It's like, hey, did you see elite squad? Yeah. Did you see elite squad number two? Like, Sean sees everything. Wow. He's that guy. He's like me. He goes to Amiba, buys it all, sees it all, rents it all. Like, he really loves movies. He really, really does. And I think he got, yeah, I think he got a bit

sort of tired or or even stung that he loves movies so much and he doesn't get to be part of the types of movies he'd like to be in you know with the exception like southland tales which even though it's like a weird crazy flick at least it's something it's going for something and i and i'm so proud that our movie gets to show the world what he has inside him because it's a it's a tough role to pull off because i mean he's if he didn't say yes we'd have no replacement like we did there probably wouldn't be a movie right because i mean it's kind of a little bit of kind of the rocky thing and that like he's not a bright

guy. No. He's like a cross between like Forrest Gump and Superman. You know like and Chauncey Gardner a little bit I guess too. Like he he belongs to no era Doug and what Sean has to do in this movie he has

to do the normal number one stuff of carrying the movie on his shoulders. He's got to be funny when we need to be funny. He's got to be hard as shit when we need him to be hard as shit and he's got to be lovable and likable and heartbreaking in those moments too now those three things are a bit kind of contradictory mutually exclusiveish how do you have a guy how do you have a guy be this pussycat and have the audience buy that he can like brain somebody and and you do with him and and and it's down to how smart

and honest he is and that he is just like big boy from minnesota the i'm not a hockey fan i never have right i've never gone to a hockey match oh great right and so again i think that's speaks well to what you guys have accomplished. Oh, yeah. Thank you. That's huge. Because I would think when you made both of these films, and you've directed the second one you wrote and starred in the first one, of course,

that well, you tell me, like, who were you making it for? Were you thinking about sort of like, I want this to be this era's slap shot, et cetera? So, yeah, we thought, we always knew best case scenario, it becomes our generation slap shot. And that's in

despite of or despite all of us like liking it but not loving it the way our dads did right like we all grew up in with dads who are firmly entrenched in the cult of slap shot and like don't get me wrong slap shot makes me laugh super hard in most of it but i don't um it just doesn't mean as much to me as it does to guys my dad's age and all that stuff no who um this is who we wanted to make the movie for uh it's going and and i don't and and and i don't want anyone who doesn't fall into this category to feel alienated or that you're not welcome. We want everyone who likes our movie to like our movie. All are welcome. But at the same time, when you set out to make something for everyone, you will make something for no one. So you've got to make something

for some money. And so we made... That's the specificity that makes it resonate. And that's what makes it universal. And we made it for... I've been saying we didn't do it for guys in Toronto or Vancouver, Montreal. We did it for guys in Halifax and Winnipeg and Calgary. It's for lower middle class, regular Canadians, taxpayers who deserve, who go to the cinema all the time, go to the Cineplex,

love a big blockbuster, love a good entertaining comedy, and never get to see one about them. And so we wanted to give them a movie that looks just as slick and sexy and upmarket and big as the big American flick that cost four times as much as us next door. We want, you know, and we, there's an aesthetic hump that I think, you know, and that doesn't apply to Egoian or Kronenberg, but there's like an aesthetic hump that a lot of, especially mainstream kind of Canadian cinema, as thin as it is, had to get past.

And I, and I think we did that with the first goon. I don't think like it looks like a tax shelter movie. And so we went even further in that, down that road in number two. There's only two handheld shots in All of Last of the Enforcers, and they're meant to be recreating news footage. I had a very, very specific instinct for the aesthetic of this movie. I was like, it has to be classicist. I want all of my favorite directors, all of the Easy Writers, Raging Bulls guys, they're all children of David Lean, right?

It's all David Lean, and their movies mean the most to me, and David Lean's movie has been a great deal to me, me, and I was like, this is the tradition I grew up in, and I got really mad at this aesthetic that saturated TV and cinema in the last 10 years, where it's like, if you like electronic music, if you like synthesizer music, you know when it sounds like shit. And when it sounds like shit, it's because the guy's just pressing the preset. He's not even coming up with his own sound. He's playing the preset.

Like, J.J. Abrams' famous theme for Lost is a preset sound. and now cameras have that. They come out of the factory, broadcast ready, right? You don't have to endeavor to find your image and to make it beautiful. You can, but you don't need to. And so now everything looks kind of the same. Everything's handheld.

And by the way, it makes sense if you're a producer, you just spray everything down. It gets much fucking footage hanging out there, but there's no intention and there's no, you know. And I, and those, that's not one is important to me. I think of close encounters. I think of JFK. I think of The Fugitive, you know, I think of Last of the Mohicans.

I think of Braveheart, you know, these are, and these are all movies done in that old classic tradition. And so, and I thought especially considering how sort of foul and coarse and blue collar and rough around the edges our movie is, the more Ben Hurr we make it, the better. And so I kept saying it's a hoser puck opera. It's a cross between trailer park boys and Ben Hur, you know, and that's not two forms I've ever really seen together. Amazing. Well, yeah, you basically just listed like five of my favorite film. Oh, wicked. Terrific. They're releasing close encounters, as you probably know.

Are you serious? Yeah. I did not know that. I just saw it on the big screen. Is it a different, like, do they do anything with it? As you know, there are like a few different versions. Yeah, yeah. I think it's like the, it's not the one where he goes into the spaceship.

Okay, okay. So I think it's like the director's kind of, not like the extended. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. That looks amazing. And that's the only movie he ever wrote. I know. I think he co-wroteing, I think he has a co-writing credit on AI Bizarly. Yeah, he might have his.

He was going over to England with, and, like, staying. He spent a lot of time at his house in England. They developed that thing together for, like, two, three years. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's worth seeing. It's fascinating. Awesome. So, oh, what was I going to say?

So we talked a little bit about the cast. One thing, not to put you on the psychiatrist's couch, but you do direct your ex. Yeah, I know. Yeah, tell me about it. Yeah. Yeah. He's obviously a wonderful actor. Agreed, yeah.

He was in the first goon as well. No, it was definitely something for us to figure out, 100%. That's not something that most first-time directors have to reckon with. No, I don't think they do. And I think it speaks volumes about her and my dysfunctions or how artsy we are. No, but literally, like, we lived together, we broke up, three years went by, I saw her at the table read, and then two days later, I'm directing her to give birth. But what's awesome is...

Would you recommend this for other people? just sorting out complicated relationships? I'll say it prepares you for shooting hockey. It makes hockey easy. No, no, she's an awesome person and she's an awesome actor and an awesome artist. And I mean that sincerely. And this is what I mean about how dyed in the wool kind of artsy her and I are. Once Jesse, my writing partner and I realized that we were not realized, just owned up to the fact that Doug and Eva would still be together.

So if Doug and Eva still together That means Eva's in the movie If Eva's the movie means Allison has to be in the movie Or at least we have to offer it to her I can understand if she doesn't want to do it But it's hers to lose And when we said We want to make another one

Do you want to be Eva? Yes And neither And it's like we're not like text buddies We're not acquaintances We have nothing to fucking do with each other But we respect each other as artists And we had a blast on the first film

And we're both huge fans of the first film and we're both huge fans of the first film. And also, Allison wouldn't do it if she thought it was shit. And she's not in the habit of doing people's favors. And especially not this, my blankie-ass. So, like, it was she saw what we were trying to do. And for me, more often than not, it wasn't my ex-onset. I was just spoiled for riches with one of the world's great actresses.

Sure. So as a fellow film geek, I want to hit you up on a couple of people you've worked with. Infamously, you almost worked with that you spent some... Oh, Miller. Yeah, that's the heartbreaker, buddy. I know. I know you've talked about this. No, I haven't.

Not nearly enough. So I'm obsessed with George Miller. You and me both, bud. I mean... You and me both. And that last film he directed was probably in favor of the last five or ten years. Yeah, that's the same here. Genius.

Same here. So for context, you were in the other Justice League movie that was going to happen. Yeah. You guys were all in Australia, I think. Yeah. It's called Justice League Mordle. And it was written by this writing, this case, I think, the, what are they called the Moronies? I forget their name, but it was a writing team.

And it was kind of a riff on the infinite crisis line, storyline. And it was, yeah, I went in. I met with Miller after sending my tape in, and all of our tapes had to just be any monologue we liked. So I did the, like, you can't handle the. truth thing as I found my way of doing it and I was shooting Tropic Thunder at the times I was like in between things so I had camo on my face and I was in fatigue so it worked perfectly

and then I went in for the meeting and next thing I know they're like yeah okay so they want you in Sydney next week for rehearsal and so that was cool and to be in a superhero movie and I was going to get to be the bad guy I was Maxwell Lord I was Maxwell Lord

now now not your dad's Maxwell I was going to say everything about this film everybody was younger than you usually had seen them the fact that you were playing the villain and you were probably in your late 20s or something. I was and that specific villain. You know, because he's not like the Joker. A lot of people no idea who the fuck he is.

Yeah, it was going to be me and then Therese Palmer as Talia O'ul. Right. And strange. But what I loved about it though was how fucking specific it was and shamelessly like they just had a vision. So I get down to Australia and we do this read through

and Nico, the guy that co-wrote Fury Road with Miller was there as his dramaturg and he said Nicos here what we're going to do we're going to do they picked up the script they said this is just paper this is just a document we don't care about the document

so we want to remove you from the document so first table read anytime you have a line of dialogue to say don't say your line say your character's name the word says and then the line so everyone's Batman says Superman says Maxwell Lord says and and we did all this really deep Stella Adler

acting class type shit but it was only for about four hours a day and the rest of the time we were in Sydney and it was just like working with one of the greatest at Kennedy Miller at their headquarters and at that point they had built so much of the movie they had all the costume design

they had all the pre-vis they had all of the sort of production design figured out and so they would take us and walk us through this command center where they had everything all of the art up and and the the aesthetic choices that they were making and the story and character choices they were making are so ballsy and we won't ever see it what do you think it would have like felt

like can you even like compare it to anything this is going to go down already has this one of the great unreal yeah like hoda roski's dune kind of yeah yeah there's not actually no it's coming they're they're doing they're trying to do one well that's the other reason that i was so rooting for fury road in addition to being like mad max like roared like roared Warriors one of the first films mom ever showed me but also I knew everyone involved in Fury it was the same team from Justice League and

how would it have felt I it was imagine Miller doing Snyder like that's the way I could describe it because it was very tablo and it was very very

they were paintings and yes and then what the characters were doing had such teeth to it like there's a scene where I brainwash or Maxwell Lord brainwashes Clark and all of a sudden this guy's got Superman as a weapon

but in order for the process for me because I can always control people's minds and my nose bleeds a little for me to get into a cryptoneum brain my pitch was and we were going to do it Miller loved it was it's not just a nosebleed. I start bleeding out of every fucking orifice

in my head because it takes that much to get in the kryptonian brain. And then I do, and I turn him into full red-eye Superman, and then there's this big-ass fight between him and Wonder Woman where he breaks her fucking wrists and shit. And then I die halfway through the movie,

and then my consciousness is uploaded into a fucking mainframe, then I'm an evil computer. The first time you see Wonder Woman, the opening scene on Themiskeera, it was just her it's her on top of a steed and she stood about half a kilometer

away from a minotaur minotaur's got a battle axe in his hand and she just rushes him all the amazons are there cheering her on and she just beheads him gets off her steed and holds up the minotore thing and she doesn't say a goddamn thing and I was like that's the wonder woman I want to see

you know it would have been special and for me selfishly personally so while we're there they start booking houses for all of the Justice League. And they're not asking me. And I said, so are you guys going to find out? Well, we think you're only in 12 scenes.

We think you're going to go back and forth. And I'm like, well, A, that's a lot of travel. B, that's a bummer. I'm having fun. And so I said to George, I was like, you know, I don't, how long do you want me here? Because I'm only in 12 scenes. So if you want me to just come in and go, that's absolutely fine. I'm happy to be here.

And he's like, oh, no, no, no. He goes, I want you here the whole time for two reasons. I want you here, one, because I don't want to break up our team. I want to keep the posse together. You're a company. You're a repertory company. Number two, and this is the heartbreaker. He said, I know you have an interest in cinema,

and I want you to be here every day to shadow me like I did with Mel and Thunderdome. He literally offered me an apprenticeship. So, like, and I was like, there's no way on earth. I'm going to do this without my agents giving me shit for being. taken off the market as an actor, I was wrong. Because everybody knows who Miller is. And so when I told my agent in the CIA that I'd been offered in a pre- he's like, oh, you take that fucking opportunity.

Get there. Pay for yourself to be there. Yeah, no. So, and then it was like, I went home on December 23rd, January 7th, you back in Sydney. January 6th, I got the call that's not happening. DJ Catrona, my buddy who was going to play Superman, who's on the From Dust Till Dawn TV show.

He had it far worse. He didn't get the call the day before. He was standing with his luggage in front of his place in L.A. The town car was pulling up as he got the phone call. You're not going. And the driver said, I'm here to take the airport. He said, no, I'm not. He's like, I'm pretty sure I am.

He's like, buddy, I just got the call, please. My heart's broken. I'm going back inside. Literally had his bag packed. And he had been there. I was only in Sydney for two weeks. He had been there, him in Army, Hammer had each been there for like two

or three months at that point training to be Batman and Superman. If the actual doc doesn't happen, I want to do like a ten-part podcast back the making of. Buddy, the story, and the crazy anecdotes and maybe it'll come up why we referred to ourselves as Hobo League of Australia and all this

like, we had a good time. Oh my God. One other film I can't let you go without mentioning is Tropic Thunder. That's a good flick. I mean, it's more than a good flick. It's an amazing film. you're kind of like the straight guy in that story which is again a tough role and I would imagine tough to kind of like keep it together

opposite one of like the great comedic performances ever that Robert Danny Jr. Yeah him and Jack Black and Stiller's killing it too and it was very hard to keep a straight face but I love being the straight guy

so what I did this is the end it's what I didn't man seek a woman too I I set everyone else up so they can drive the puck to the net and and I and I'm and I like it um and he has no no movie or story worthwhile functions without that character the audience needs to see themselves in somebody um that being said yeah it was I was corpsing constantly and um but what was so cool is that it was not just that it was it was it it scratched three inches the shooting of tropic thunder was um I got to be around

in my opinion like the funniest people on earth and I and I would go so far as to say I think that that's black's best work and downy's best work um that's that would be enough also as like a red-blooded Canadian that grew up loving G.I. Joe in action movies and playing cops and robbers getting to put on fatigues and fire an M-16 every day for six months was the greatest and then the film nerd in me was watching you know one of the last great old school style practical films you know like our big explosion that in the first 10 minutes of the movie

that's real that's 2,200 liters of fluid our big battle scene is real that's two actual Huey helicopters 25 50 stunt performers another 50 extras a dozen cast or two dozen cast it's all real

and shot by John Toll I was going to say I remember that it was like there's a reason it looks as fucking good as it does because the guy shot Legends of the Fall and Braveheart in the thin red line and we shot it on like film and like...

Exactly what you were saying about your approach to your new film. That's right. Which is that Stiller did not approach it like as a lazy comedy. It was not a comedy. As an as apocalypse now. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And to that end he gets John Toll and you know and and it has

this Stiller new that like scream it has to function as the thing it's making fun of you know it was like it was so funny like Nolte on set said this will be strange love

McBride on set said I think this is like scream and I think it's kind of a fusion of the two I should let you go soon we could talk forever about a thousand things yeah same here but but just to mention a couple other things

I'm excited for you're also on the comic book side oh cool thank you your chapter house it's give me a sense of what's on tap for you and what your involvement's in this I'm just curious so I am I'm, first, I'm an investor, a part owner of the company.

I own 20% of Chapter House Comics out of Toronto. In addition to that, I'm also the chief creative officer. And so that is a pretty far-reaching purview that everything from, does that cape look awesome, to does that font work, to world building and mapping out arcs, and how can we get this big-ass bad guy to be an event for all of our characters? and I just, the sort of mission statement of Chapter House dovetailed with my mission and cinema and television, which was giving Canadian kids stories about them.

And Canadian comics is such its own strange, weird history where it flares up and disappears and flares up and disappears. And the first era, what's referred to as the Canadian whites, all these black and white things that were printed, it was during World War II when there was a paper quota. And so no comic books were leaving the state. So all these Canadian kids had no comics all of a sudden. for five years. Necessity being the mother of invention, all of a sudden we have the first sort of run of truly Canadian comics. World War II ends, we disappear, and all the American comics come back. In the 70s, you have Captain Canuck. You have Richard Comley in his house,

drawing in pencil crayon, printing it himself, gets this book on shelves, and in spite of the fact that it was an independently published comic that ran for three years first, disappeared, Came back for a year in the 90s, disappeared. And then Faddy Hakeem, my business partner, a guy who started Chapter House, he said, like, Canuck needs to be done properly. In spite of the fact that it's an indie comic that only ran for two years of the original time,

in spite of the fact that it's always relegated to the back of every comic book shop in Canada, every single guy my age knows who he is. Jason Eisner was like, I have Conuck number one. Like, we all know Canuck. He's just in a street fight for real estate and shelf space against Batman and Superman and Spider-Man. So what we're doing at Chapter House is taking Canuck and all the guys from the 40s and everyone else we can find all of these earnestly Canadian homegrown legacy characters from our past,

rebooting all of them under one shared universe. And really, it's about whether or not the comics are awesome, and they are, because most of our artists and writers earn their trade, apply their trade to Marvel and D.C. and happen to be living in Toronto. And they're all patriots as well. And so we all see what this can be and how we can have a dope comic that happens to take place where we live. And it's a pretty special thing. And we just want to give Canadian kids comics where they can see themselves.

Well, it sounds like you're doing everything that, like, you love and then it's personal to you. And that's great. Thank you. I'm hoping this. I know you have a horror film that you want to direct. That's hopefully next on tap if you can get it together. Yeah. And hopefully there's even announcement during TIF.

Amazing. So we'll see. All right. I'll look out for you in Toronto. So, honestly, come by any time you want. Oh, man, thank you. This was such a pleasure. That was a lovely, lovely chat.

Thank you. Thank you for the kind words as well. And thanks for having me. All right. I'll see you soon. We did it. That was awesome. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused.

Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Shalameay playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar Wright's The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.