Happy Sad Confused - Jeffrey Dean Morgan

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Do they come any cooler than Jeffrey Dean Morgan? Don't let the leater and the sunglasses fool you though, this guy is as self-deprecating and humble as they come, despite a genre resume most would kill for -- The Walking Dead, The Boys, Supernatural, Watchmen, the list goes on and on. And somehow he and Josh cover it all here. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Georgia, you know, Norman and I would ride around motorcycles a lot. And I remember we had stopped at this coffee place and we got in a coffee. I had this old lady. She smacked me with her purse and started swearing at me, like dropping F bombs. And it was like serious. I remember Norman was like, we got to go. Like, we got to get the hell out of here. Like, it's serious.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, first time guests. It is Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Walking Dead, Watchmen, BVS, Invincible, The Boys, Gray's Anatomy, we cover it all. This guy is so effortlessly cool, as I told him, and just a decent, decent guy, a great

conversation with one of my favorites out there. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, whatever podcast platform you're using, you know what to do. Before we get to Jeffrey Dean Morgan today, quick reminder, as always, if you like what I do, support us over on our Patreon. dot com slash happy say I confused we post every single episode early over there we do bonus content when we can we give you early access to our live events in new york and los angeles supporting us over

there helps us make more over here um jeffre dean morgan uh doesn't do a ton of the long form podcast so i'm thrilled he came on happy say i confused at last i've certainly chatted with him over the years but never one-on-one it's usually with norman redis or loren kohan and today he was front and center promoting primarily the new season of Walking Dead, Dead City, which is now in its third season. It is, by the way, getting the best reviews yet of this spinoff show. They've kind of like rejiggered the format a little bit, the relationship between Maggie and Negan, and it is reaping great rewards. We also talk a bit about his new show on Amazon Prime, Sterling Point, his reality show, Destination X. He's a very busy guy.

But also, this is a deep dive into his entire career. his he was a bit of a late bloomer really not hitting it big until supernatural in gray's anatomy in his mid-30s we cover that crazy moment in gray's anatomy that really kind of became a focal point in pop culture and of course being in things like watchmen and bvs and as i said the boys invincible and of course a ton on the walking dead uh he's also just like a cool normal guy great really easy to talk to really funny really smart um i'm so thrilled this happened i know you guys are going to dig it. So without any further ado, here is me and the one and only Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Jeffrey Dean Morgan, you're unhappy, say I'm confused.

Josh Horowitz, thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. It's never happened before. We've talked in the past, but I've never had you. You're always with like Norman or Warren. I get you all to myself today. Yeah, I'm all yours and I can't wait. And I'm happy sad and confused. So it works. Did you come out of the womb this effortlessly cool, Jeffrey Dean Morgan? Did you come out with leather and sunglasses? I mean, I came out probably fighting and wanting to be cool, but it was something that I had to. I'm still growing into, I don't believe that. What were the awkward years for you?

What was like if I had met you at like 10, 15? Look, I remember my mom calling around to neighborhood moms and saying, hey, my son really needs friends. Junior high was rough on me. Okay. So those years were hard. And then I kind of came in my own maybe sophomore year of high school. Found sports, found yards. Yeah, yeah, I found sports.

And I kind of grew into maybe my awkwardness. And it's probably a little nerdy. And, you know, headgear braces, the whole thing, you know. Stick up those photos. That's a far cry from a nap before me today. The 70s were rough on me. Well, ever since then, you've made up for lost time. because you, yes, you exude coolness.

I feel, yes, just a little cooler being in your proximity always. Well, I'm flattered, but you're full of it, but I appreciate it. Not true, man, not true. Look, we were just talking. We both just returned from the madness that is San Diego. We're both been doing that for probably, I've been doing 10, 15 years. I'm sure you've done it. I think that I have been to, I counted them at one point.

It was like 20, 22. I missed last year. You know, I'd always been there with something, a horror film or whatever. And then, and then, you know, how many years of Walking Dead? Every year, except for the COVID. Yes. And then even then, I think we did a Zoom thing. Right, that weird year.

That's super weird. And then last year, I didn't go. And then this year, we didn't have Norman, which was very weird and awkward. I miss having. I think he makes me cool. How about that? You as a duo are one of my favorites, like both on screen and in interviews. you are a lot of fun.

We have so much fun together. I miss. I miss working with him so much. And all weekend, I was getting text from him. Are people missing me? He's got promo? Yeah,

I love it. And I'm like, of course everyone misses you. Mostly me. And he was like, we're both the fans. I'm like, yes,

man. Everybody misses you. It must be surreal, though, for you, because like, you at ComicCon, the resume that,

look, it's not up to us, to any actor, to anybody. It's written in the, stars. I don't know how it happens. But you have somehow accumulated this this resume filled with from walking dead to the boys invincible. I mean that's just stuff in the last couple years.

But yeah, I mean, Watchman, the losers. I've got a whole super natural. Yeah. It is odd to have kind of fallen into the comic book world. And I'm not sure how it happened. I mean, I guess I guess the first would have been supernatural. And I'd done horror films and stuff even before then that had gone to like a Comic-Con, small horror films that we do. But then when I fell into the world of comic books, I really fell in.

And it was great. And for a long time, I was in the D.C. universe. And then that went on to Walking Dead in the Robert Kirkman world. And of course, you know, Kripke then brought me back to the boys. and God bless them. Did you grow up with that stuff? I mean, were you? Yeah, yeah.

My favorite person in my life was my grandma, my dad's mom. And my dad and his two brothers had massive amounts of comic books. So I remember as a young boy staying with her and just getting to have, you know, a million comics. I wish to God that I had him now because it was. Oh, my comics, my baseball cards. If I had taken any kind of care of both of them, me and you both. I'd have a little bit of a nest egg.

I had, I had, I didn't really have baseball cards, but I had basketball cards. Yeah. But I had like assigned Wilk Chamberlain, assigned Pistol Pete Merr, you know. Yeah. And I never, you know, they were, they were in those stick them books, you know. Yes. You couldn't even take them out once you put them in and dog-eared. But who knew?

I didn't know it. 11 that. No one, none of us did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was basically, yeah, in junior high school, I was hanging out at the comic book baseball card shop every day after school. And little did I know it would be my career, basically. Yeah. It really did it pretty well for you. Oh, no, please. I skipped so much school to see movies when I was a kid and now my mom's like, okay, it worked out. It's fine. So, like, when you're growing up before you even knew that you wanted to make a go of this, like, what were the films and actors that you, or TV shows that you were obsessed with? I mean, Westerns, I think my first love was, probably westerns and it was shows like bonanza and gun smoke and that stuff. It ages me rather quickly when I start throwing that out. But I remember watching, you know, Batman. And I remember the very first Christopher Reeve Superman and that being such a big deal

and kind of watching it come to life. But I didn't, I don't think that I thought then even that it would explode into the world that it's become. Nobody did. It's kind of taken over the film business, really. If you're going to do a big movie these days, it's usually a superhero film. It's a cape involved somewhere. Have you done much? I think you've done some Western adjacent stuff.

I've done a couple of westerns. No, I did a mini series called Texas Verizon. It was me, Bill Paxton, Ray Leota. I mean, guys that I loved and that I miss dearly. And then I did a film with Mads Mickelson called The Salvation. which is actually a gray and Ava Green. Brilliant film. If I had done other westerns, I want to say I've been on a horse more than it,

because that's all I ever want to do. I'm constantly looking to get into that genre. They just don't make that many. They don't. I mean, you know, Taylor Sheridan's kind of tiptoeing around, and I think all of his shows are very much based on kind of the theme of a Western. Yes. I could see you fit into Taylor Sheridan.

Yeah, yeah. I just had a meeting with those guys just to talk about, you know, future stuff. But yeah, I would, look, you throw me on the back of a horse with a six gun on my hip. And it's less dialogue, for one. Cowboys don't do a lot of talking, but I just love it. It's a place that I'm real comfortable. One of your kids is named after Gus McCray, right? Well, that's right.

Gus is, well, and George is named after a bonanza episode called a girl named George. Wait, was Gus the Robert Duval character? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess it's McCrae. Did you ever meet Duval before he passed? No, God. I mean, I would be my favorite actor, maybe ever. But never met him.

I always hoped to have met him after, especially after Gus was born. Although I was trying to imagine how I would say that to him without sound like a complete stalker weirdo. But, you know, everything that I know about and people I know that have worked with him, have the greatest things to say about him. What a wonderful man he was. And what a giving actor and no bullshit kind of guy. Yeah, like he and Hackman are those two for me. Yeah, Hackman's another one.

The most like naturalistic actors. Yeah. They never, a word never could escape their mouth that I didn't believe. I, I agree with you completely. So, you know, put the two of them together and stuff.

And, and there's heaven. But, you know, Hackman was in some of the greatest westerns ever as well. And he's, you know, you just named two of my, Well, maybe my top two actors as well.

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Yeah, I mean, so did you. Have you talked about your Comic-Con? Not on the podcast yet, but this is about you today. I had a fun Ryan Gosling moments, Ghostbredi moment. Well, you had a moment kind of running the whole Marvel friggin' universe for a moment there. I'll take it. It was really cool. Hey, audience, if you haven't seen it, go watch the Marvel panel and see Josh in action because it was pretty great. But you were there with Warren and Company talking about the 13th.

season of Dead City. Yeah. Yeah. You could never have fathomed you'd still be playing this character and find it as rewarding all these years in. I still can't fathom that I'm doing it. No, originally, you know, I had, I had been doing kind of like hit and runs. I'd go do a year on a show and then I'd go right to another show. And it was, it was fun.

I liked it because I was doing something different all the time. And I remember when Scott Gimple called, he runs the Walking Dead world. and he was showrunner at the time and it was just a very vague offer we are offering you this role that is the big bad but I was a fan of the comic book and I was a fan of the show and I knew exactly where they were in the story

so I knew immediately there was Negan but it was originally I think a two year a two year commitment and I was like I can do that you know they were doing 16 episodes a year I was like, because I hate being away from home. Sure. It's hard. At that time, it was just Gus and George wasn't around yet. That's how long I've been there. I've had a whole other kid who's now in third grade. And so I was like, well, two years, sure. And that kind of came and went. And then, you know, when the show originally, it was, Norman was going to go do his show. And then Lauren and I were, we were called by,

I think Dan McDermott maybe and Scott. And they were like, well, we're going to have you and Lauren take over the main franchise. You'll be the heads of the new franchise and we weren't splitting off. And then suddenly Walking Dead was canceled by AMC. But in the same sentence as same sentence as that was, we would like you to do your own show. And they had kind of said the same thing to Lauren as well. In fact, they did.

and they were looking at different ways to do different spinoffs, and then they came to us with this idea of pairing the two of us together, which at first I kind of laughed. I'm like, there's no frigging way. How's that even work? Yeah, how would that even work? And I think that was kind of the main thing. And I think that was the whole point was we don't know yet,

but we find it a very interesting way to start a show where your two leads kind of hate each other. And then they were like, and it shoots in New York. sold and that was that was it i didn't even care with the idea was then i'm like well i get to be home uh and it turned out we never shot in new york we shot in deep jersey and now for the last two years we shot you know in the boston area you're still close and we're not talking yeah yeah no that's it's the key i can get in my car and be home in like four hours so i can see him on weekends but it also just must be rewarding like this new season's getting great reviews

the best yet for this spinoff yeah and i know you you you you you and Lauren have talked about like, you know, there's only so much meat on the bone to kind of play out that relationship. Yeah. After all these years. I think we beat it to death. Right? You got it. You nailed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we were a couple years late.

I'd be honest with you. So what's, has it been a shot in the arm to kind of like find a new dynamic between the two of you this year? Certainly. It was, it was great to shoot because we got to, you know, we've been kind of doing variations of the same theme for 10 years. Yeah. The two of us. And so, that's where kind of Negan was stuck with this Maggie character. So then to do this spinoff that, you know, it started off the spinoff, I think, for the first part of the first year,

okay, there's going to be some movement here. And then I felt like last year we really got bogged down in season two, Negan especially, from my point of view, all I did was cry and he lost his charisma and, you know, everything that made him Negan. And I called Dan McDermott, who ran, he runs AMC. And I was like, from my trailer, after the last day of filming of season two, and I said, I can't do it like this anymore. And it's been awesome.

And thank you, and I love you. And that started a whole other conversation before you run off, Jeff. Is there a way we can shift this and make it a show that we all think. it can be yeah so you were fully prepared to walk away yeah and and i think loren was there also um i was just the first one to call and i'm really quiet about i don't often call you know anybody and they know it's something when yeah yeah if i'm calling there's something going on and um and luckily uh uh you know we brought in set hoffman who i think injected so much and and i remember having my first phone conversation with him

kind of one on one and you know what are you looking for what do you want to do and i was like well the dynamic has to change it there has to be more to it than she wants to kill me and i'm trying to make her not kill me and talk her out of it and save her yeah yeah it's we've done it um and then i just wanted nigen back i wanted his humor and charisma and his smartness back in the show because i felt like it just you know vanished and And we were able to do that. So when you went back at the beginning days, so you were a fan of the comic, you knew the character.

Besides the scripts and the comic, were there any other inspirations for how you approached? Yeah, in the early days? I, you know, really initially, shooting especially that first scene, because we shot, and it was just me talking, you know, the come out of the Winnebago, I'm doing my thing.

but it was like 10 pages of of a monologue essentially and really what I did was whatever I saw the other actors react to whether it be that lean I remember doing that lean for the first time and watching Andy get this look of Andy Lincoln who played Rick Grimes get this look on his face like what the fuck is he doing

like I could see him get uncomfortable with it And I leaned into it. I'm going to lean into the lean. I really leaned into it. And it became like a thing. So it was a lot of that. But, you know, the comic book ultimately is the best foundation you can have. And I learned that really was Zach Snyder.

Because on Watchman, we never looked at a script ever. It was. Well, that one in particular. I mean, his mission statement, and he said it very overtly, was like, I'm going to make it a comics act. He was faithful adaptation. And he did. Like you did.

You were torn out of those pages. You were a comedian. Yeah. I mean, I remember like, you know, I'd go back to where, you know, he was. And it would just be, it's his dog-eared version of Watchman, the graphic novel. And I'd turn to the page and they're like, I got to do that. I want, I wanted to like stand like that or whatever it was. I wanted to, you know, make that.

And also we had like Dave Gibbons there who drew the comic book. And I didn't want to fuck with him either. Yeah. And we all felt that way. I will say, we'll come back to Walking Dead, but since you brought it up, I love that film. And I particularly love, like, the opening of that film. I do, too. The credits.

Well, the credits and your, your deaths. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's the first thing we shot. Those first 15 minutes are as dynamite in open to a comic film ever. And they make you feel like, you know, for, you know, Lodgeman has its critics and it's people that love it. But, like, you can't argue that he made the comic. No.

sure did. I mean, you know, the endings a little bit different. And we kind of knew that going in. A giant octopus was going to be tough to do, especially then in 2007 when we shot it. I mean, I watched part of the film

recently with my son, and I was kind of laughing at the CGI of it all then. It just doesn't match up to what we see now. Even what kids are doing on YouTube, it's crazy. But that opening sequence and going into that the fight with Ozymandius and the death of the comedian,

those were the first things we shot. And like that fight, I remember it took like eight days. And I, you know, you came from the world of television really at that point, right? And so eight days is an episode. Eight days is a full episode. And I remember I was, that was the old version of the comedian. So I had all the prosthetics on. So I would go into work at two in the morning to start the makeup process.

The rest of the cast came in at eight. Must be nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that first week I remember I was working, you know, 20-hour days. And I was like, oh, shit, I'm not going to make it through this film. You know, I got another five months to go. And Zach, after that, realized. And he was like, all right, we're going to have to shoot you and then give you a day off or shoot you.

And that's kind of what we did. rest of the film and but god that was so much fun so back to walking dead because i do want to mention it in the context of like you've been at the focal point of like these like crazy pop culture moments a few times in your career yeah we can talk it's it doesn't happen all so many actors let alone you've had multiple like you know we can talk about gray's in a bit too but like with walking dead it's pretty early on in that run that you bash you know you kill a couple very key characters in the most brutal of ways. And you knew what you were signing up for. That's kind of like the fun of it, I guess, in a way, right? Yeah, I certainly wasn't scared of it. You know,

so what did that affect like, I don't know, I mean, people are smart enough I hope to not conflate you and the character. Oh, no, I still get it. Really? I still get hate. I still. What do you get? Oh, I get people all the time that are just furious with the fact that I killed Glenn. He was so loved. And I never understood how they didn't know it was going to happen. Like Glenn was, I thought, a gimmy. Abraham was a bonus, you know. But the glam of it all, you know, died in the comic books.

And that had come out four years prior. And so I was kind of shocked with the amount of people that wanted just suck the air right out of them, but that just hated Negan and Jeffrey Dean with fervor. With fervor. What's the most extreme? Yeah, what have you got in? I mean, I've had, in Georgia, you know, Norman and I would ride around motorcycles a lot and we'd go to various places.

And I remember we had stopped at this coffee place and we got in a coffee. I had this old lady. She was old. She was probably 80. And I remember she was with her granddaughter who was super excited to see Norman and I. But when she saw me, the older lady. She smacked me with her purse and started swearing at me, like dropping F-bombs. And it was like serious.

I remember Norman was like, we got to go. Like, we got to get the hell out of here. Like, it was serious. But I still can walk down the street in New York today. We could go out right now and someone's going to yell at me and flip me off. And yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hilarious. I mean, I've gotten so used to it now that it's part of the deal.

And if you go on. online. I don't anymore, but it's tremendous the amount of hate that Neaton has. It's a good 50-50 split or people love to hate him. It means you did your job. It's also just as disturbing the flip side, the people that find him, I guess, is a testament, again, to the effortless charm, that he's like the sexy character to some people. And then that's disturbing in some ways. Yeah, that's got its own issues. Yeah, yeah. And it seems to be kind of split 50-50. You know, you. You You know, I think there's something very interesting about, Negan. I think taking someone that is, it does something so terrible in the show,

it's hard to say that he's necessarily a villain if you break down this apocalyptic world, because then everyone is. Everyone's just trying to survive. Everybody's murdered somebody. Yeah, exactly. You know, but, you know, he came on the show and fucked with our main cast. And those were, you know, the audience as heroes and, you know, killed two of them. And so I get it, but at the same time, if you're such a fan of the show and this world,

but you don't expect people to think logically, and that's not going to happen. And so I just kind of, it's this now. I used to like really defend, Megan. Let's sit down and have this act. Yeah. And I now I'm just like, hey, it's whatever. Hit me. Keep watching.

It's paying my bill, so it's okay. Yeah. And that's why I think this year's kind of so interesting. and it'll be fun to see if the audience understands Maggie's decisions that kind of work with him. Right. Now it's about like, wait, do I forgive her for like betraying? Right.

Yeah, and now she'll get the shit. Right. Yeah. Or not. And maybe it'll turn the audience and they'll be able to see, you know, pass some of the stuff and understand that these are two people that there's a certain level of trust that they have built. They've known each other longer than anyone else.

Yeah. You know, Nigan has done a lot to clean up and try to fix what he's done, but he's always going to live with the guilt, and she'll never forgive him. But we still find a way to move past it. More happy say confused coming up. The Tudors were probably the most scandalous dynasty in British history. Names like Henry VIII and Bloody Mary are still known today. This season on vulgar history were spilling the historical tea on the

messy Tudor era. We'll get into the Anne Boleyn of it all, figure out who really wrote Shakespeare's plays? Was Elizabeth really a virgin queen? And why was Henry the A's the fucking worst? Listen to vulgar history wherever you get podcasts. Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here. Are you a fan of true crime TV shows? And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jumped started all of our love of true crime. I'm Ellen Marsh. And I'm Joey Taranto. And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows all the way to Unsolved Mysteries. Baby, you will laugh, you will cry, you'll think about true crime in a whole new way, and you'll also

ask yourself, who gave these people mics? New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon. And every Monday you can listen to our True Crime Rundown, where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week. So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcast. When you look at like kind of the arc of your life and career, like do you consider yourself like a late bloomer in a way? Certainly. Because if you look, I guess you're doing the math, like supernatural. Gray is you're in mid-30s around?

Oh, I was I think 38-ish, 38 maybe. but it was so I got supernatural Gray's Anatomy and weeds all at the same time all like I mean within a week of each other

and after like 10 15 years episodeic just like Oh my God just fighting it You know Want to quit and you know I do a pilot every now and again And you know Guests our spots

and you know movies that people have never heard of It might take me to Comic-Con, though. You know. Were you having to do side hustles even into your 30s? Always. Always side hustling. You know, I would, you know, build fences or whatever.

Usually it had involved hammers. You know, there was always something to build for somebody. Were you setting, like, markers? Like, if I don't get this by this age. Well, here was the problem. And the problem was I was in my mid-30s and I didn't have an education. And I, you know, I didn't know what else to do. I did an episode of, and people have heard me say this before, of one of the Star Trek's.

I don't know which one. But I played a Zindy Alien. Oh, yeah, I looked it up. Oh, fuck. And I hated it so much that I wanted. I was like, that's it. I've got to do something else. And that makeup trailer recovered by like all this prosthetic.

Yeah. And I just, it was, I remember I was so claustrophobic. not to mention you couldn't eat and I was in it for 14 hours a day. And it just was an experience that I want to forget and I still wake up sweating about it. But I was like done. But at the same time, I was like, what am I going to do? Like I don't know anything else. I had had a brief career in my Seattle days of I had moved to New York and I got involved in some graphic art.

Went back to Seattle and kept doing that and was doing like, posters for my friends rock bands and having like art shows at bars and I could kind of stay alive that way I could sell a painting for 300 bucks and that would pay my rent for the month. And so I did that but I had it, you know, my dad used to laugh and say, you know, I could count a hundred jobs that you've had, not acting jobs early in my life that just helped me pay the bills. But I remember being my mid-30s going, this didn't work out. And my manager had just fired me right before I got the three shows and I'd been with her forever and she was like you've aged out bro you missed you missed your window and she she got rid of me and uh Max

Martina yeah who and at the same time and both and said the same thing both of us you you dudes are old and Max and I are looking at doing a film together right now in fact but we still talk about it we both will never forget that phone call so he's a friend from way back when I know Billy Burke is also Maybe your old staffing trend. I just talked to Billy Burke today. Amazing. Yeah. When I was covering Twilight, I would see Billy Burke a lot.

Charlie Swan, baby. Charlie Swan. He actually texted me last night a video and he was at the Chimney Sweet Bar in Studio City, California, which is a bar we used to go to 30 years ago. And my friend Millie worked there then and she still works there now. And so the two of them sent me a video and it was hilarious. It all worked out. It all worked out.

And the fact that it worked out for Billy as well, because he was a musician in those days in Seattle. He's one of the guys I was making posters for. And then he, I remember I came to LA and was like, well, I'm going to try this acting thing. I had met a casting director. And she was like, give it a go. And then, you know, six months later, Billy followed.

And he kind of had immediate success. He had success far before I did. It's funny to look back at kind of like some of those. roles you talked about this kind of like window of time like the ones that really like launched you then arguably supernatural grays they're not leading performances and it's a testament to what you were able to do in relatively small screen time a supporting character that like had the audience wanting more that supernatural character not on a lot everyone's talking about him a lot yeah yeah they talked about him a lot but i think yeah i think the first year i did you know

eight or nine episodes and same with grays i think i did like 10 or 11 episodes episodes in the first before I died. Right. Spoiler. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry for the 17 year olds that are just finding it. Which by the way, they are.

I walk through like Washington Square Park, you know, NYU and I'll get stopped by kids that are just watching grace for the first time. So yeah, we have to talk about grace because that is such a singular thing. Yeah. I mean, it's so important in my career. It's really the first. I mean, I look, I wasn't even the core demo, but like you couldn't avoid Denny Duquette and that storyline and grace. It was literally the center of culture for a while.

It was lightning in a bottle and it was that. I mean, that's when, you know, TV was so different and, you know, 30 million people a week were tuning in to watch that show. Right. And I went from an unknown nobody to I couldn't leave my house. And it was, I mean, and it happened like that. And what a mind fuck that must be for someone, again, That's been doing it for 15, 20 years.

That's been struggling, begging. He's a reptilian creature on Star Trek. And then he can't leave his house. He don't ever see his face. Yeah. And by the way, it's like a year apart. Yeah. You know, I don't know that it was a mind fuck necessarily because I was so just happy.

Yeah. I felt like, okay, you know, even if I die in grays, and I knew that I was dying in grays, you know, when I got the job. But I also knew that 30 million people a week were, you know, actually I didn't know that that was going to happen, but that I was going to have a regular job, one. I mean, you know, I was going to do at least five episodes. Supernatural, I thought I was only doing the one.

But I was just happy to be working. I could pay my rent. And then as that built and as I remember when it all was airing, because they were all airing at the same time, you know, Grace was airing in Supernatural. airing at the same time. And it was two totally complete audiences with very little kind of bleed over. But people realized that I could kind of do two things.

It was doing two different things. And all of a sudden, where did this actor come from? I mean, it's why Zach cast me in Watchman and Richard LeGrovinace cast me in P.S., I love you. And I didn't even audition for that stuff. They just offered after seeing the two different roles. Matter of fact, I haven't auditioned. since Gray's Anatomy on anything.

That's a privilege. That's crazy. And to go from the Zindy Reptillion, again, who was begging for work and hated every second of that job. And I remember those years of, you know, six auditions a day during pilot season and all that kind of craziness to not auditioning in the last, you know, 30 years or whatever it's been, is crazy. Was there a role?

a role that you can think of kind of before those that you came close to getting that you thought was going to change everything that you were in the finals and like this is going to be the one i mean i read forever okay yeah uh reservoir dogs uh wow which role you know that was quentin tarrantino ended up doing it yeah fucker feed out by the director no i still can't believe it um did you read for him who did you read for him who did you read Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Tell what do you remember? I remember everything because that was the coolest script

anybody had ever read in my age at the time. That's a while before all this. That's like 96 or something. Yeah, yeah. Everybody wanted it. And it was later than 96. Well, no, earlier than 96. No, it's 92 because because pulp is 94.

Yeah, it was because 96 I was actually doing a show that was on the air. that you know did we did like six episodes or something but that was a huge gig then too but I remember going in for Ronnie Yuskel and then they brought me back and Quentin was there and you know we didn't know who Quentin was nobody but he'd written this brilliant fucking script and everything in town was talking about it and I remember I did the scene and he was like Quentin, you know, very excited, leaning forward in his chair, doing this whole thing. And I want to say that I read like Mr. Orange sides, right? I think everybody was kind of reading a little bit of everything.

Whatever, but, you know, whatever were the coolest, biggest scenes where he had people read. And it might have been Mr. Orange. I think it was. And anyway, he pulled me into this tiny little closet in her office, like a coat closet. I mean, we're getting bang with coats. Closes the door. And it's just him and I. And I can't see him.

It's total darkness, but he's right here. And I remember I could smell him. And he's giving me direction. And he's real excited. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, I'm going to get this motherfucker. Like, he just sounded like I felt, I felt his excitement. I'm like, this is awesome. And went out and did the scene again.

And then I didn't hear anything for a bit. And then I got a call from Ronnie Yeskel. and she was like, okay, yeah, looks like you're doing Mr. Brown or whatever the hell it was. And I was like, and I'm looking at the script. And I'm like, he's not in it very much, but fuck, it's still, I don't care.

Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter. I just, anything. And I remember when I found out that I got the call that I wasn't going to be in it, and it was Quentin doing it. And I was just like, oh. Like, I mean, you can't get, man it's like you know what are you gonna do and then you see the movie that much oh god that must

have been i still i'm still i showed my son that film uh recently too he's he's he's big into you know film and studying it and made his first like film and so i'm showing him some of my favorites and and uh i showed him that and kind of told him the same story i just told you and his eyes got all big because he knows obviously quentin's you know track record and runs a bank by now. But I, he'd never seen reservoir dogs and, and, you know, I told him he made it for, you know, nothing. And, you know, all those guys are wearing their own clothes, their own black suits. And, yeah, because they just didn't have the budget. And he was just blown away. As he should be. Yeah. So, flashing back forward, like, so in the wake of watchmen and all, and these other

opportunities. So, like, off of watchmen, were you getting in the mix of, like, like, superhero stuff? Was that coming around? Yeah, there was. Well, I did losers right after Watchman, which still, I think, has one of the strongest casts in the history. It also fan base. I see people that still. People still, I mean, I just talked about it this weekend. People still bring it up, especially at like Comic-Con as being one of their favorite films. It got lost in this kind of Joel Silver Warner Brothers fight, unfortunately.

And it was the same time the A team had came out. They literally came out on the same weekend. One team can survive, apparently. One team could survive. Or neither can really survive. Yeah, they both sort of fucking died. But we just never had a shot. There was no marketing really behind it.

And I'm telling you, when we were shooting that, we all thought that we were going to do three of them at least. We were so excited. The cast was so impressive. You know, Chris Evans and Idris Elba and Zoh. Oh my God. You would kill for that cast nowadays. Yeah, it was like the greatest cast ever.

I mean, I was the weak spot. Stop. But it was an amazing cast, and they're all Marvel superheroes now every single fucking one of them. There was one that I was looking back. Like, you talked about way back when of wanting to play Lobo. Was there ever real? Yes, that was real. Was there a real conversation?

In fact, that was the producer, Akiva Goldsman, who did losers, had the rights to love. Lobo. And so that was, yeah, that was, that was real talk. And, and, and I wanted to do it. I had never heard of Lobo. And so, I dove right in and was like, oh, yeah, yeah. That suits you. I got to go out. I got to, I got a lot of that that would suit. It suited my, my humor and my sarcasm, all that. It didn't suit my body. But I was like, I got time. I got a year to get big. But it just never came to be. Yeah.

Did it ever get to a script stage or like a real like kind of? There was a script floating around that needed work. But you know, that was that would happen. I think Warner Brothers coming off of Watchmen and losers and wasn't having a great time with D.C. Maybe Jeffrey Dean at the same time. Now that I think about it, maybe we shouldn't bet too much on this dude. Well, you do get an opportunity working again with Zach

for a little bit part in BBS, obviously, to play Thomas Wayne. And like, I know you've been asked about this and you've talked about it and Zach's talked about... Flashpoint. How real was that? How did Zach really talk to you about Flashpoint? There was more, I mean, Zach,

Zach's like, because I remember when he called me to do the role and I was like, well, it's just, you know, it's not, it's really nothing. Yeah. And he's like, I got bigger plans. And I was like, well, Zach. what does that mean man um he's like just can you just trust me i'm like oh of course yes and i'm gonna do it even without this incentive of there's more um and i think we did have a conversation we talked

i remember we started talking about batman him and i together on the press tour for watchman and he was like i would love to see you play batman and i was like bro Don't even tease. Yeah, stop. Stop. I'm going to have a fucking heart attack right now. And so I knew, I knew what it was. And, you know, we would look at each other.

And I think at one point he had looked over and just said, flashpoint. And I was like, oh, fuck. God damn it. I almost like, don't want to hear it. Right. And so it's real. Don't even tease. But there was so much, you know,

immediate fan speculation. Everybody's so smart these days and knows that world so well. And, you know, I was so shocked that it was Zach and Warner Brothers and that it didn't work out. Because, I mean, I love his stuff and I love that he leans toward the darkness. Not that I don't love Gunn, I do. Sure. I mean, I really like Gunn. I was supposed to do a movie with him as well.

About a serial killer, it wasn't in a superhero film. But both guys I love, but, you know, Zach was so versed. And, I mean, he knew this world I thought better than any. I mean, you know him. Yeah. He just, no, he loves the iconography. Yeah, yeah, it's in his bones. Yeah, it's in his bones.

He bleeds it. And, but, you know, I just, I just read some announcement that he was going to do a new version of escape from New York. I saw that. Bro. Wait a second. Don't think I'm not texting him. I were calling them.

I am. I don't care. A little snake pliskin? Come on. I mean, I think that snake will probably be a little younger than I am, but, you know, there's some roles in that. We want a grizzled snake. Yeah, like, grizzled snake wouldn't be bad, by the way. You know, it would be cool.

Look, I'm going to do my due diligence and stalk him for a little bit because that's one of my all-time favorite film. I mean, come on, man. We grew up in a time when. Of course. You should start wearing just got an iPad. That's just walking around. I might. That's not a bad idea.

That's not a bad idea. Just to send him some selfies of, I just try him some selfies of, I just try this out. What do you think? Any of the workshop. Thoughts, thoughts. I support it. Wait, a couple more things I want to hit. Too many things, man.

You did re-team with Kripke. He came calling for the boys. Well, he came calling, but really, I came on social media when the boys first hit and was like, oh my God. I'd never seen anything like it. And he, I think he got wind or saw a post and like,

tweeted me back or whatever. I think it was on Twitter. And, and then he called. And he's like, you want to do something? This was like for year two. And then happened again in year three and always my schedule with Walking Dead. Right. Was in the way.

And then finally, you know, I had an option to do a couple of roles. That would have been really fun. And I won't say what, but what could have been, you know? It was just always schedule-wise is tough. But you're very good at playing hallucinations. We know that from Gray is in this.

So this is your wheelhouse. That was the only thing about it. I was like, damn it, it's going to be another person that's not really there. But I did have so much fun working with Carl. I mean, he was a guy that we just had an instant. And I'd known him a little bit for years. But we had an instant chemistry that was kind of undeniable and fun. And it really worked with these two roles and then playing together.

I mean, we had a blast. I just, I couldn't say enough about it. And so, yeah, Kripke, you know, thank God. It's good to have folks like Zach and Kripke in your corner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that corner keeps growing, you know, because, like, Like the Du Bois world is a world of, you know, those guys that I didn't know going into other than Cripke. So, you know, we'll see.

There's always something, right? Well, there's also Invincible, which we have to talk about. I just had JK here, J.K. Simmons. Yeah. I mean, the fans of Invincible. Come on. I mean, I love him. You know, he was a next door neighbor when I last lived in L.A.

We lived like a block from each other. And I used to see him all the time. He was much, I think I had just been Denny. and John Winchester at that point. I didn't live in L.A. very long. Once I started to work, I was out. I met my wife, and she didn't want to live in L.A. And the next thing you know, we're living in a cabin in the woods.

So I didn't get to actually get to hang out with J.K. And unfortunately, when you're doing a show like Invincible, you don't work with people. Did you ever reteam with Stephen on that? Or no, are you ever together? No, never together. I would love to be. I just don't think that that's how they do it, at least on this show. I know sometimes they do, but I think this show they kind of keep everybody apart.

I never even heard Stevens' voice when I was doing my stuff. So it was just, but I would have, you know, Kirkman and the director and, you know, like the whole bunch of, like, whoever, Amazon people on Zoom. And I would just do it here. and I've never worked harder. A couple of the last scene of whatever season, when I'm first introduced that fight scene, it takes up the whole episode. I've never been sweatier in my life than I,

I've never been more stressed out. I was like, oh my God, these, I felt like I had, you know. You got your workout. Yeah, it was a full-on workout. Well, that must be fun as far as voice acting goes, to, like, really lean in and really just, like, be. It is. You think Negan's evil.

Conquest doesn't be. Conquest is great. And, you know, when he wrote that, he wrote that speech for me that wasn't in the comic book, where Conquest kind of, I saw you nodding, you know the one I'm talking about. And I'm trying to remember exactly what it was, but it kind of shows that Conquest has his vulnerability and he has no friends and all this shit, right? And Kirkman wrote that just for me because I was doing the role. And, you know, I have this innate ability to do, characters that are horrible, but let's humanize them just a little bit to confuse the audience.

Like, I don't know whether I'll like them or not. I feel weird about this. Why do I like this guy? Yeah, why do I suddenly feel for this fucker? And that was my favorite speech to give. So we'll see what happens with Invincible, you know. I was going to say, is there more on, that sounds like a tease. It could be a tease. Let's tease a couple other things. You're in Sterling Point. Yes. Megan Park, I'm a big fan. I always asked was such an emotion. Oh, my God, that movie's great. This show is so good.

I watched all eight episodes last week. I should have been like prepping for Comic-Con, but instead they sent it to me. And I was like, oh, you know, I'll watch the first episode. And then I had my son do a scene. My son got to do a scene with me in this show. And I'll slip to episode five or whatever it was and watch the scene with him. I watched the first episode and was full on hooked.

Started at 8 o'clock at night, four in the morning. I'm like pissed that it's done. I'm like, oh my God, this is, it's so good. And the actors in it are so, these young actors, Megan has this innate ability, not only to be this brilliant writer of this generation, but her ability to cast, holy shit. Yeah.

I mean, I can't wait for people to see it. I'm very proud of it. I'm very proud of her. I talked to her last night as well. I thought I was doing this kind of young adult show that I would never watch, but it really plays for, I think, an older audience really well. You got you guys who's brilliant. Jay is, I've known Mark forever and didn't really know Jay and he's great.

And Missy Pyle, who's wonderful. But that's the it for the adult crowd. The rest of kids who are just so good. They're so good that I was left with my mouth agape, I think. watching the show and how good these actors were. I mean, they don't have any credits, and they are unbelievable. Unbelievable. The two main girls, I just, I couldn't say enough about it.

And talk about unexpected, you know, gifts. Like, I imagine if I talked to you a few years ago and you're hosting something like Destination X, you would have been like, what the fuck are you talking about? I still don't fucking get it. Season 2 is greenwood. I don't know if you shot it yet. Just shot it.

Just shot it. Just go back. And I think it's going to be really a great year. You know what I didn't know about these shows is I didn't know they just used the same cast of different shows and pulling all these kind of reality superstars. And so we had to get the show to be much smarter this year because you have these guys that are all gamers. We had like four non-gamers and a bunch of people that I just call gamers. They were on shows like, you know, traitors or the bachelor, you know, reality, I shouldn't call gamers. But they come knowing and they're prepared to play a game for sure, a survivor.

And it was fun. But really, I have to be on my toes. Yeah. Because they're just, they're on it. And calls upon a different skill set, I would imagine for you. Yeah, I still don't know what I'm doing. I'm fighting it constantly. You got it.

Yeah. It's a battle. I still think NBC fucked up with my casting. But that being said, you know, it's fun. We shoot the whole show in a month, and I get to go to places that. Yeah, yeah. And I see with the world.

I've gotten to travel all over the place. I'm in it, or I shot a hell of a lot more this season than I did the first season. I'm on camera a lot more. And that's probably good. bad but it was it was cool and I and went to some really great places I can't tell you where because I don't want to give away anything but it was really cool and then you get to come home back to the city and upstate you got the place got the farm still how how many dogs how many animals

up there just lost you know bandit who I'd had I got during losers he just uh I'm sorry he just that well I mean he was 17 years old that's when losers was how about that so I mean we been knowing it was going to happen. We still have two dogs. We just got a freaking cat. I'm allergic, but my daughter's been begging for one, and we broke down for her birthday and got a cat. That's in the house, not a barn cat. And then, you know, an array of, I've probably got 30 odd animals around the farm, yeah. I love it. You know my other passion project now is I do a show called Who's a Good Guest, where I talk to actors and their dogs. No way. Oh, you should have me and Irwin, my three-legged other Puerto Rican rescue in.

Can we book you? Because I'll come to Rhinebeck. I'm in. I'm in. Whatever. We can go wherever. Yeah, we'd love to. I love it.

Are you kidding me? We end every happy, say, I can fuse with our profoundly random questions. Ready for these? I am. I think I know the answer to the first one. Dogs are cats? Dogs all the way. I mean, not that I actually have fallen in love with this cat just because she walks out my dogs and wax them.

She's just a little thing, but already rules. house. But I'm a dog guy. What do you collect? I'm trying to think. What do I collect? Well, I see, that sounds so fucking horrible. It's okay. You've earned it. I like, I like watches and I like I like motorcycles and cars. It's okay. It's so shitty. You get away with it. It's really on brand. It is on brand. But yeah, well, we forgive you. Favorite video game of all time. It can be old school. Can be back. what? It's Minecraft. Yeah. Yeah, it is. When my son was just a little punk, I remember being so thrilled that he'd found a game that I thought was a cool game that he wasn't losing brain cells playing.

And he still plays it at 16. My daughter plays it. I will play it occasionally. I'm not good. But I love that world and I love that you can create or you can go into non-creative mode. and fight walkers or zombies. I can say zombies now. I forget. I always am like told not to say the word zombie. That's so funny. Yeah.

I hate it because I'm like, it's zombies, man. That's what they are. Walkers. The Dakota Johnson Memorial question. She asked me, I ask everybody. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt? I'll take the 1B in the boat. Yeah.

Yeah, without a question. I've been stung a lot of time. Not in the butt. there's the first time for everything. Yeah. I'm not going to ask more about what in the butt means, but it sounds bad. Best not to. What's the wallpaper on your phone? It's my daughter and dog.

Yeah. George and Irwin. Last actor you were mistaken for? It's always, well, I get Robert Downey sometimes, but it's usually Javier Bardem. Do you always correct, or do you just sign the... I have not corrected Javier people before, Javier people before because some of them only speak Spanish and they will be talking

to me so fast and I used to sit there and get in arguments with them and say no I'm not and now I'll just sign Javier those are probably very valuable. The fake Javier. There's a couple of them out there man I saw an interview I want to say last year of him

kind of saying the same to shit about me and it was funny that he gets mistaken for me a lot and it's very sweet It's good company to be it. Yeah, I take it every day. What's the worst note of director has ever given you?

Man, you know what? The note I hate is always to speed it up. I fucking hate that note. And everybody says it. I'm like, speed it up in the edit then, you know? Just put it on one point you on. I'm always like let a scene. I'm always trying to find places to let a scene breathe.

Look, I know I got to get through this scene in a certain amount of time. I'm well aware. But if I take a pause, it's probably because. because I'm acting, you know? It's like thinking, like Hatcher's thinking. That's exactly right. So whenever I hear speed it up,

you will lose me as a director. You go the other way. There's other ways you can approach somebody to have them do something different, but to just say speed it up has always made my skin kind of crinkle. And finally, in the spirit of happy, sick and fuse, who's an actor who always makes you happy.

See them on screen, you're in a better mood. Bobby Duval. Great. Movie that makes you sad. Brian's home. Nice. And a food that makes you confused. A food that makes me confused.

You don't get it. Why do people eat that? No, I get the question. I'm just trying to think if there's a food that, I mean, look, there's all the, you know, the monkey brains or some, you know, there's some kind of like crazy stuff that I don't want to touch. But I'm always tried to, if I'm traveling or whatever, to try new things and experience a little bit of everything. experience of culture. And so I don't have any foods that really freak me out. But I don't want to eat like bugs.

And, you know what I mean? I mean, I have. But now you know enough. Sometimes on purpose. Sometimes not on purpose. But it's not enjoyable. No, I get it. I get it.

All right. So we are plugging today. A lot of things. Destination X. We don't know when it's happening. I think that's next year. I want to say that's next year. Yeah.

By the time people listen and watch this, throwing point on Prime. You're very proud of that one. I'm very proud of that one. I think that I think folks are going to love it. Yeah, I'm really proud of it. And Megan and this cast, yeah. And of course, Walking Dead continues.

And congratulations on all the great reviews. It's hard, like, as you well know, like this many years in to kind of like surprise people and reiterate. So congrats on around you. I just right before I came in here, I was going through. I got an email from AMC. And it was, you know, a thing that I don't know they're going to send out or whatever. but it's kind of like headlines of reviews. And I was like fucking stunned.

It's unbelievable. You know, the kind of reinventing of this show, it's fucking working. I mean, and yeah, it's great having nice reviews. Usually I don't read them. And this year, I'm like, why am I going to have to fucking take a look at that one? Send those to Norman, make him even more jealous. I don't want that. He's still mad if he wasn't a Comic-Con.

You kidding me? I'm so glad this happened, man. Me too. You're always a blast to talk to. You're welcome anytime. Congratulations. All the success. Don't be so self-deprecating.

You've earned your place in pop culture, man. You're always killing it. It's weird. It's a weird deal. I thank you so much for having me. And what a thrill and an honor to be here. I'll see you with the dog soon. Anytime.

Fucking anytime. Now, that's a podcast all deal. We were just talking about what kind of podcast we do? You with my puppy? Come on, man. All day. long. Yeah. We haven't

need like a three hour window there. Thanks, buddy. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley

and I definitely wasn't to do this by Josh. Do you love Disney? Do you love Top Tenless? Then you are going to love our podcast, Disney Counting. Hi, I'm Megan the Magical Millennial. And Biscuits, I'm Jeremy, aka Jarendell, and we are the host of the hit Disney podcast, Disney Countdown. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we countdown our top 10 lists of all things Disney.

The parks, the movies, the music, the food, the lore. There is nothing we don't cover on our show, right, Jeremy? Ooh, girl, you know we are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts. You didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you are looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts.