Happy Sad Confused - Jennifer Jason Leigh

Episode Date: February 22, 2016

The Oscar award nominated actress Jennifer Jason Leigh joins Josh this week to talk about her great assortment of roles in her tremendous career from Fast Times at Ridgemont High to The Hateful Eight and everything in-between. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. You may not realize it, but every minute of every day, you're enjoying your First Amendment freedoms. You can wear what you want, give out your opinion for free, even if it's unpopular. Listen to your playlist. You can put a sign out on your front lawn that says, vote for Bigfoot, someone you can believe in. Pray to the God of your choice, or don't.

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It's my podcast. You're the person listening to it. Those are the roles we play in this conversation. Joining me for the intro, as usual. Sammy, hey Sammy. Did it do. All right. This week on the show is very appropriately as we crean towards the Oscars.

If you're listening to this, when we put it out, which is on Mondays, six days until the Academy Awards. And one of the nominees this year is the incredibly talented Jennifer Jason Lee, her first Oscar nomination, which is kind of insane to think about. That is insane to think about. She is one of these actors that is like, she's like an actor's actor. She's like, has the respect of her brethren in the academy and has had such a great assortment of roles over her career. And then, you know, in recent years, thanks to both becoming a mom and, frankly, the dearth of roles for women of a certain age has not been as much in the public eye. So it's been a real treat to see her get her just acclaim for her role in The Hateful Eight, which, as I mentioned to her in this podcast, is very well represented on Happy Say and Confuse. This is a movie clearly I liked because I had on, ended up having on Tarantino and Kurt Russell and now Jennifer.

So, you know, where I stand on the hateful eight. But yeah, really cool to have Jennifer on. She's, again, one of those actors who, like, when she was kind of like in her early heyday, you know, like whether it was, you know, first coming to the floor in Fast Times Original High or later doing films like Georgia or single white female or. Hudson Sucker proxy hit me at the right time. So I've always been a huge fan of her. So it was a real treat to kind of talk to her about a lot of her films, including the ones I just mentioned, which I mean, Hudson Proxy was her film with Tim Robbins for the Cohn brothers, which I'm obsessed with. Georgia, which is a film that when I have Winona Ryder on the show, she actually named check. Yeah, she actually name checked as like one of her favorite performances. And that jogged my memory. So I went back and watched. And it is a really amazing film. Single white female? Single white female is one of those that everybody, right, has a soft spot for. Because it was like...

And Fast Times of Richmond, huh? Yes. Two like real classic movies. Which was Fast Times, which was basically her first feature film. So, yeah, she was, you know what's really sweet too. She talks a little bit about is that her best friend, I think literally she considers her best friend in the world is Phoebe Kates. And they're still like besties. Oh my God, but fast.

I love that. I know, I know. I've never heard you say besties. before. I'm trying to become hip and with it since MTV's Snapchat launched.

You're so MTV. But yeah, so I was really excited to have her on and it's a great conversation and as I said she's had a hell of a career

so definitely worth the next 45 minutes or so chatting with her. And yeah, I wanted to mention also you know, Oscars, as I said, are coming up

and we've been privileged to have a bunch of the Oscar nominees on this year including Alicia Vikander. Alicia. I'm like, yes, who came on.

It's a shame she's so ugly. Ugh, what a monster. Shield your eyes. Yes, exactly. No, but she came on early in the year, actually promoting a different film than the Danish girl. She was promoting a smaller film called Testaments of Youth,

but we did talk a little bit about Danish girl and like her 17 other movies she made this past year. So look that one up. Look up. I mean, I loved my conversation with George Miller, the director of Mad Max. who, yes, if I'm polling for somebody for an upset this next week, will be George Miller as Best Director.

Probably not going to happen, but it would be amazing to say. Hey, put it out in the universe. That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm trying to do. You're doing great. But, you know, not a Dark Horse. In fact, the likely winner in her respective category, we did have the privilege of having Bree Larson on the show.

And so, Bree's great. And if you haven't seen a room yet, check that out. If she doesn't win. It'd be shocking. I'm never watching a movie. Wow. Let's quite stand you're taking. A lot is riding on the Oscars for you.

This is going to change my life. I think, yes. And I don't consider myself an Oscar prognosticator, but I would say, Sir Sharonin. Any excuse to say. I love it. I love it. Who we have to have on the podcast at some point. Hopefully we will.

She's doing a play in New York very soon. Oh. Yeah, the Crucible. Yeah, very exciting. One of my favorite plays. Oh, what is my favorite play? My favorite work. I'm not a Warned man, but I do know that play.

I feel like I am a worded man because I pronounce it. You said Lernet. You make it. I was going to say, I think Sersha may be the dark course in that category. She could take it from Brie, but I think put your money on Bray. What, no? What do you think? I don't agree.

Okay. I'll tell you that. What do you say? You don't agree that she has a chance or you do, what's part of my statement? I don't agree that she would be the second runner up. So who's the second run? Remind me once again. Oh, God. I was just looking up. My brain is fried now from the Oscar nominees. Well, let me tell you what you look up the nominees.

I'm going to look it up and you just keep up. Okay. Well, it's Charlotte Rampling, I guess, for 45 years. It's nominated. I'm remembering that. Winslets and supporting. Oh, my God. My brain is fried. But I was going to say also one other nominee worth checking out. And we talked to him a while, while back, but Michael Fastbender. So go back into the Happy Side Confused Archives if you want to have some cool, fun Oscar nominee conversations. they're out there. And I'll tweet these out too this week. What do you got? Nobody else is going to win it. Oh, so who are they? It's Cape Lancette. Right. Who, like, you can give it to her. She's just won a couple years ago, too. Right. I mean, she's wonderful. No difference back.

Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Brie, obviously. Jay Law. We love Jay Law. She's won it. I don't think this is it. It's not the year. This is not the year. And it shouldn't be, by the way. If she does win... Did you see Joy? I mean, yeah. Oh, you weren't a big Joy fan, huh? I like Joy more than most, I will say. I didn't hate Joy. Do I think it. It's an Oscar winning performance.

I don't. Okay, fair enough. I'm going to put it out there. Charlotte Rambling, I am a big fan. Yeah, yeah. I can see your blank eyes. You have no idea who you're even talking about. But she sounds very accomplished.

She is a very accomplished actress, but she will not win. I guess swarshy. Oh, my God. I would love it if the whoever is announcing the nominees pronounces Sirsha that way. It's me. Slat-a-s-sha-Swar shlaw. Brannian. Like, all, like, the gutterol.

I'm sorry, Swarsie. Oh, stop it. Yes, Breilarsen will win. Leo's going to win. He's going to, of course, is going to win. By the way, what if Leo doesn't win after all this? Then I hope they hold on a very lingering shot of his face just to see his brain implode live on TV. What if he pulls a brand out and if he does win?

Sends up Sachin Little Feather to accept it. I don't think that's happening. Although, he has been very outspoken lately. I know. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. You never know. probably will. He'll make, he's actually making very good speeches, I will say, along this little

award circuit. Yeah. He's been bringing his dad and his mom along. He's, he's been doing it the right way. He knows he can read the, you know, the tea leaves. It's his time if he plays his cards right. And he has. He's done well at this campaign. I remember when I was a younger child and I had a teen bop dedicated to Leonardo DiCaprio. Wasn't every issue of teen bop dedicated to Leo? No, it wasn't. This is a special one, collector's edition. Oh, wow. And I learned that he was named Leonardo after his mother first felt him kick while looking at the Mona Lisa and named him after Leonardo da Vinci. Wow.

I hope you're live tweeting these fun facts as the Oscars are going on. I'm just saying, I think he's going to win. Okay, fair enough. From the mouth of Sammy Heller to the Academy voters' ears. I hope you guys enjoy the Oscars. I'll certainly will. I look out for my coverage for MTV. I'll be on the carpet doing my thing.

Taking shots. No shots. I'm going to do it a little classier. You're not impressive. Yeah, I can't do that. My liver can't take that. No, you'll die. No, but I will be there in a spiffy-ish tuxedo trying to be classy with the Oscar nominees.

So look for those interviews online and look out for further. We'll get started on the new nominees for next year, immediately next week, if we can. In the meantime, enjoy this Oscar nominee. It would be awesome if she upset everybody and won an Oscar. but if not this year, another year for Jennifer. We're rooting for you. Jennifer Jason Lee, one of the best. Enjoy this conversation with Jigil.

Jigil. Let's just, let's pay some respect, Jennifer. Ms. Lee. I can't believe you hid her from us. What? You hid her. Oh, yeah. Sammy gets annoyed sometimes when I don't mention that the talent is coming in. No, he was like, oh, Jennifer Jason Lee just left.

I'm like, you're an asshole. That's not my responsibility. It is a little bit. All right. Well, we're going to start this out in our own. In the meantime, enjoy this conversation. It's good to see you again. You were the third member of the Hateful Eight to be on the podcast, which is a record for my podcast.

Really? Is that true? Yeah. Quentin was here and Kurt was here. And that shows how much I adore this movie. So congratulations. Thank you. And as I was just saying, when you walked in, it's been, you know, a hectic couple months for you. Yeah. And it's almost through. Well, hopefully we'll see you on the Oscar carpet. I'm heading out there myself to do my shenan.

but it's going to be a fun night. Are you excited about it? Oh, very. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be a great night, I think. And it'll be fun to see you there. It's nice to see a friendly face on the, it's good to see you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was, yeah, I got to see you guys. It's fun to see you guys all together, too. Like at the press conference, I got some moderate and to see that, you know, the cliche of like, oh, we all get along. We all really love these. You guys clearly, really, really obsessively, to it, maybe a degree that's not healthy. enjoy each other. Perhaps that's true. I'm actually, we're all having dinner Thursday night, and I'm working during the day Thursday. So I just said to everybody, drink slow.

Is the infamous group text still going? Oh, yeah. Really? Uh-huh. And I will never die. You know, if it dies, then that'll mean, you know, something very bad. Does, does, if Bruce actually texts, are his text proportionate to his answers in real wife, i.e. are they like 6,000 pages of just stories? I mean, I say this in the most endearing way possible. He's also a really great storyteller. Oh, my God. And what you say is true, but he's so fascinating. And also his memory is so sharp. Yeah. It surpasses my memory by, I mean, like, decades. I mean, honestly, like, he's, he is incredible. Between him and Quentin. I mean, I never had a great memory like that anyway, but still, you feel,

It's not intimidating. It's just utterly fascinating. Well, it's kind of great to know that, I mean, the guy getting up in years still has more than all his faculty is still there. No, it's incredible. But, I mean, it's just, it's so entertaining to watch them have a conversation. Yeah. And they kind of, like, test each other all the time, too, which is really fun.

It seems like it's no coincidence of the kind of, like, folks that Quentin gathered for this were people that, like, were either almost kind of born. into the business like you and Kurt in a way or someone like Bruce that just like oozes stories of Albert Hitchcock etc like it seems like as much as he loves the acting ability he loves just sort of like the the embodiment of Hollywood yeah and he truly loves acting like he said like never think oh let's Bruce doesn't need to come to set right I always want to be there and it was true he was always there yeah so has this been the most press you've done for any film in your career, you think?

I mean, it's... Does it feel different in terms of... Can you relate it to any other experience? I mean, I feel like I've done a lot of press on... I've done a lot of other press in the past, but not in the last eight years. So definitely it's the most I've done the last eight years. But before that, I remember having quite intense times of press.

But this is probably... the most because it's not only hateful eight is also anomalies. Yeah, which I adore as well, by the way. Well, we'll get to that one as well. I mean, you know, there's so much that you've talked a lot to press folk like myself over this process and a lot has been written about the ebbs and flows of a career. I mean, do you take exception when people are like, oh, it's her comeback? It's like, is it more of like, well, well, you know, I had a child.

I had life. Yeah, but I still am like, yes, it's my company. You're like, I'll go with that narrative. If I get better scripts, great. Well, the truth is, I mean, I did, I wasn't really working very, very much. I mean, and it's always lovely to say, oh, but that's by choice, but it isn't, it isn't. You know, if you're not getting great opportunities, then you're working to actually, you know, pay bills. Yeah.

And that has a very different feeling to it. Yeah. It doesn't even feel like acting, because acting is fun. Right. And when you're working to pay the bills, you're just. grateful to have the job, but it doesn't sounds corny, but it doesn't feed you in the same way. It's not gratifying in the way it is. Like going to work

every day on The Hateful Eighth, just never, never wanted that movie to stop filming, you know, because as brutal as it was, we were all just having the time of our lives. And we knew, you know, you're working with Tarantino. He's like a truly magnificent director, and you just feel lucky to be on that set and to be part of his vision. Has there been an immediate difference in kind of like offers, directors that are coming back around?

Yeah, it is completely life-changing. And he does that, you know? We've seen it. This is Tarantino bump or whatever we want to call it. It's real. It's just because he writes such incredible roles and he doesn't look at actors just based on the last three movies that they've done. He really looks at your whole career. And he sees you today the same way he saw you 20 years ago.

I had something of a, in preparation, something of a Jennifer Jason Lee movie festival this weekend. Oh, you did. It was kind of, it was a little bit, like, haphazard and random based on what was, like, kind of available and stuff I hadn't seen in a while or never had seen. So let me think. I saw, I saw four movies. I saw Georgia, which is fantastic, which I definitely want to talk about a little bit. I saw Flesh and Blood, which I had never seen. I mean, it was Paul Verhoeven.

I feel like I have to. Yeah, you got to see that. Got to see that. Quentin actually referenced Flesh and Blood. Is that right? one of our first meetings about hatefully. Yeah, because, like, and that's what I'm talking about. I think I was 23 when I made that movie, and he was saying,

there's a moment in Flesh and Bud, which is very much like a moment that Daisy has in this. And I had to, like, think for a second. It didn't come to me that quickly, you know, and then I remember the scene. Wait, oh, and I saw Dolores Claiborne, which my wife had ever seen. I didn't want to show her. I thought she would appreciate it, and she did. And Miami Blues, which I always had a soft spot for going back. Yeah, me too.

What would you play in the Jennifer Jason Lee Film Festival if you could program your own film festival? It's funny because I was just actually asked that because they are having a... Well, there'd be something in L.A. for you, right? Yeah. So I would definitely have Georgia in there. I would definitely have Miami Blues in there. And, I mean, aside from these two films, which actually they did play, hate flight, but they couldn't play anomalies for some reason. But then it gets a little trickier for me. You know what I mean? Because I love, there are certain things I love about a lot of them.

I love different ones like Mrs. Parker has things that I love in it. Is there a correlation between the ones that people bring up and the ones that you yourself love? Like, is it a direct, like, one-to-one ratio in terms of like... No. No? No. Not necessarily, no. Where is, I know, we're going to bounce around a lot because I might, it's one of those

days. But HUDsucker proxy, I... Oh, yeah, Hudson Poxy, I love. That might be there because also it's so, it's so different from anything else I've ever done. Well, it's different from anything virtually anyone's done in 50 years. Right. Exactly. You know, when I was growing up, I was homesick.

I used to get the stomach flu all the time. Yeah. Which is the worst illness. You just think you're dying. Right. But my mom, when I would have that, she would let me stay in her bed all day and watch old movies on television. And so I fell in love with all these, you know, old like George Cucor movies. And I, yeah, I just couldn't get enough of them.

And I always wanted to make one, but they didn't get made anymore. And then I read that script and I was like, oh, my God, this is like one of those movies. Was that character described in that way in terms of, like, the way she spoke and how quickly she spoke and everything? Like, was that all referenced on the page and in conversations with a kind of? owns or what? No, it wasn't. It's just, to me, it just read that way. Yeah. I mean, their scripts are so explicit in a certain way. Like, you, when you read, I mean, all of the stage direction is so beautifully written and the characters are, are so defined by their dialogue. Yeah. I don't, I don't know that everyone came in doing a fast-paced thing, but it just, it just seemed like one of

those movies to me, so. Yeah. And then the contrast between your performance and Tim's works so well in that golly gee whiz kind of just like even even just like the sight gag of you two together he's he's gigantic you're relatively petite um it just all works that that's that's one that i've seen an insane amount of times and we'll continue to um so it's about to hatefully i'm just curious because like when i've seen it a few times now and it's i know you guys shot you tried to at least shoot chronologically um as best as you could it's curious because like your character doesn't say a tremendous amount even in the first two-thirds of the film. Was that kind of an advantage? Did you feel like you were kind of like ready to explode in a way by that end,

by those end scenes? How does that inform or help your performance if it does at all? I mean, I love that about Daisy because I'm I'm introverted by nature and I don't really like talking that. I mean, with my friends on. Obviously, I do, but it's words have weight, and I am careful. Daisy, for Daisy, she's careful, too. And she's thinking a lot, and she's playing different angles and trying to figure things out and trying to survive. Right. And a lot of what she puts forth is persona is something that she wants people to think about her.

But meanwhile, the wheels are always turning. So for me, that was actually a very comfortable place to play. Because I understand that. I'm curious, when you read a character like Daisy, like in your mind, are there five or ten or 20 different ways to go with that character? Or is there only one instinctual? Like, oh, this is the way, if I were to play it, this is how I would play it. And there's not really, there's not that much to discuss.

Or is there? There probably is a lot to discuss. But what Quentin wanted to do was for us to just sort of find her in an organic way. Yeah. And so we had these rehearsals where we just sat around a table and the whole cast. and we just read through the script over and over and over again. And he really didn't want anyone to even stand up until they absolutely had to. And that was great.

And then by the time we stood up, and then by the time we started walking through the scenes, we already had some history with one another. And the words didn't feel like words anymore. They started to feel we started to inhabit them. And then by the time we started shooting, we really knew who, we were. And there was no kind of, I have no idea where Daisy comes from in a certain way because I feel like Quentin is so much a part of this performance. It's something he gives to you on set and demands of you. It's both very, very liberating and very taxing. So it's

exhilarating, you know. And there's a kind of focus that he demands, which I love. But yeah, Like, I, when I watch her on, I remember during the course of filming, you know, people, different people in the cast of saying that I was, whatever, scary or crazy or that. I didn't, because I know Daisy so well, I didn't view her that way. But when I see the movie, it's like, who the hell is that? That's amazing. I really don't recognize myself, like, at all. Yeah. So.

Did I read correctly, had you seen the staged reading that he had put on when he? Yeah, I had. That's amazing coincidence. So, yeah, when he was kind of, like, debating, it was this, you know, the storied history of Hateful Eight when he was kind of like, it leaked, and then he decided to do the stage reading. So you were just another audience member that wanted to see Quinn and Tarantino to do his thing. Yeah.

That it would ever get made into a movie or that any role, if it did, would be available. You know what I mean? It was just, I just thought it was a great night of theater. Did that character strike you? Like, did you, like, just instinctually say, like, if and when, oh, I would love to play that character, or was it just removed? I didn't think that, because. I would assume that the girl who did it would be doing it.

You know, I would never assume that it was even a possibility. Have you, Quentin's talked about wanting to do this on stage at some point. Would you want to do it on stage? Yeah, of course. I mean, it would be, I think, a tremendous night in the theater. Yeah. If you could pull this kind of violence off and this kind of humor off on stage, it would, I mean, it would just be amazing. It's like that, like, I think like Martin McDonough's stuff where he's like pushed like,

violence as much as you could, like, you don't traditionally think of, like, blood and guts on a stage and that tension. I mean, I remember I saw a bug and I was stunned. And I saw it in a little tiny theater. And I was just thinking, how the hell did they do that? Yeah. It was so gory and visceral, but funny and disturbing all at the same time. Right.

Do you, you've done a tremendous amount of theater in your career. Well, I wouldn't say tremendous, but I've done some. Yeah. I've done, yeah. And it seems like, has that something been, been a priority for you? Has it been happenstance where, like, when film? film work wasn't interesting, and there was interesting parts in the theater,

it kind of ebbed and float, or how much of it was kind of calculated and how much of it was just sort of... None of it was calculated. So it was more like, like, for example, when I was doing Existence, which is another movie I actually liked very much. I came to New York to see Cabaret with my mom, and

I went backstage afterwards because I knew some of the actors in it, and they said, oh, you know, Natasha's about to leave. Would you be interested and I will I the show was magnificent yeah absolutely and so I flew back two weeks later and auditioned for Sam and that's how that happened so that is really happenstance you know this episode of happy said confused is brought to you by good therapy dot org the most trusted online resource for finding a therapist meeting with a therapist or counselor can help people to happy, fulfilling lives, whether you're facing mental health challenges such as depression,

anxiety, or grief, or trying to cope with everyday stressors like family conflict therapy can be a tool for healing, self-exploitation, and growth. Therapy offers a non-judgmental environment in which you can feel connected, supported, and understood. Since 2007, goodtherapy.org has helped millions of people find qualified counselors and therapists. Guys, there is hope. There are people who care. Change is possible. Find the right therapist right now at www. Good Therapy.org. For someone that's, I mean, I don't know if you would characterize yourself as a professional singer.

You've actually sung quite a bit, whether it's on stage or in film. And I think of cabaret. Like, I spoke to Emma when she was about to do it and when she was doing it. She was so exhilarated Emma Stone, and she was, but she was petrified too. I mean, I guess part of the appeal of that character for her, I know she said to me at the time, was that, like, she doesn't have to be the perfect singer. Did that feel like a comfort zone to know, like, okay, I don't have to sound perfect? In fact, I should sound a little damaged and rough around the edges. Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, if you're not a great singer, you always want to hear that.

Yeah. Do you like the sound of your own voice? It depends. I love to sing. Yeah. I don't always like the sound of my own voice. And I prefer singing to listening to what I sound like. But I do love to sing.

I like the way I sound in Anomalisa, though. Anomalisa, we should talk about, which also, I mean, I feel like there could be great documentaries made about the making of hateful aid and Anomelisa too real. Yeah, so totally different experiences, but both like ones I just cherish. Yeah, I mean, obviously the mind of Charlie Kaufman is an interesting one. And you had a smaller part in Schenectady. But this one, it was basically started as a radio kind of play, right? It wasn't even like a full-on production.

It was sitting in seats. It was called, like, Theater for the New Year. And it was really Carter Burwell wrote the score and all the actors sat in chairs, directors' chairs. And then there was a guy doing Foley at the front of the stage. It was another, like, wonderful night of theater. But it was only two nights. And I loved playing Lisa so much. And I didn't want to really let go of playing it, you know.

Yeah. But for a while, there were. rumors of going to Sydney, going to the Sydney Opera House with it, and that fell through. And then, so it was, how many years later, eight years later, eight years later, that he told me about doing this. And when did you actually record the voices? Two years ago. So it is amazing that they both came out right now, because we voiced it two years ago.

But, you know, they could only shoot, they shot two seconds a day on a good day because every single time a puppet closes, it blinks, that's someone going in and closing their eyes, you know, so. It's fascinating. And a lot's been said about the very intimate nature of the sex scene in the film, which is, again, unlike anything I think any of us have ever seen in film, which is tough to say. It feels like you've seen it all by now. And I think intimates the word. It just feels so authentic and true. It's so awkward. And it feels like real time. Yeah. I felt very, like, embarrassed when I watched it. You know, and it's not me. I mean, it's not, the puppet isn't even based on my body. body or my face or anything, but I still felt more exposed than any full nudity, like, scene. And also, even acting the scene was very intimate and uncomfortable. And David and I weren't touching even, you know, like, I've done love scenes where I've

been naked with other actors, and this felt much more intimate in some. So what do you say before or after a take of that? Like, what's the discussion of, I mean, it's a much different discussion, I would think. Oh, really? You just get this over with, but get as much awkwardness out of that. the way as possible. You just go into yourself, but you just wait here, if you're going again or not. Are you making eye contact with David during when you're, when you're, I mean,

I that's a good question. I'm trying to think back on it. I just remember it feeling very, um, probably not. Probably had our eyes closed like one would, you know? Right. Right. Or looking at the script for the lines. Because we were actually, we had to tape our pages next to each other so they wouldn't

make sound. you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there might have been some eye contact, but there was, it was so intimate in some ways that it felt just as awkward as if we were actually having sex in some way. So going back into the career, I mean, it's fascinating to look at sort of something like fast times, which no one could have known at the time was going to be what it has become. And it was essentially your first feature film, right?

give or take does it still boggle your mind that it is brought up so much that it has stood up as well as it has did you kind of

ever feel like okay this has a life but it'll go away people forget about it and they'll go on to the next thing yeah I don't really you know

I didn't think about it that much I mean I remember we were all so young when we made that movie and it was such a fun movie to make and then it was

this like huge hit. Yeah. And we went to the movies and there'd be audience and saying the lines back with the screen and you just thought when you're that young you just think, oh, so this is what it is to make a movie when it comes out and everybody

goes. It droves and they go again and again and again. They learn all the lines and it feels great. Right. But it never happened again. But, yeah, so I really, I love that movie. You know, it has like a special place in my life.

And what are your The legend Hasn that that Sean basically was in character Shooting that film was he was he was was he was he was he was he was he was he Was he Spacoli all the time? Um Um, um Um, not all the time. Yeah.

No. I mean a lot I mean a lot of the time. Yeah. Not all the time. Okay. Um, and if nothing else, you got a lifelong friend out of it in Phoebe case. That's yeah. That's the biggest thing.

I mean, aside from the fact that. I love the movie. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's very, very rare to meet someone on a film and become lifelong friends with them. What did you, I mean, do you remember why you connected at that time, what it was? You know what? I think Amy cast it really well. I mean, we have a very similar relationship to this day.

When I, ever I need guidance, whenever I need support, whenever I need support, whenever. Right. I need to find my way or try to understand a situation. She's the first person I call. Yeah. Outside of, I guess, an anniversary party, she's essentially, she's retired from acting, which is a shame. Yeah.

Yeah. No, she's so good. She's so good. So in the wake of fast times, I mean, you say, like, at the time, not realizing that every film was going to be quoted verbatim to your face. But were you getting interesting roles at that time afterwards? I mean, what were your remembrances of the few years after that? I think things became easier.

Yeah. Yeah. I think after fast times, I did, I feel like I did easy money maybe at the last times. And then that led to like last exit in Miami Blues. And that's when things really changed to me. Right, right, right. Did one of these, you know, you always look at IMDB and see all the stuff that you reputed to turn down or auditioned for, one that stuck out to me was Terminator.

Were you up for Terminator? I was up for Terminator. I would have loved to have done Terminator. I did not get Terminator. That's fascinating. But I did audition several times. It was close. Did you meet with Jim and Earl?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I met with both of them. And I met with, yeah, and Gailen Hurd. Read with Arnold at the time. No, no. That I didn't do. Yeah.

But I think it was very close, but I didn't get it. But even on the page and talking to someone like James Cameron, who really hadn't done much of anything outside of a Roger Corman film or two, you still, that registered as something that was going to be interesting. It was a great script. Yeah. Yeah. It was a really exciting, really fun script, especially when you realize what's happened at the end. You know, it has so many great. It's so Philip K. Dick. And it's just, it's just so good. You got to scratch that itch, I guess, a little bit in Existence into that kind of like smart sci-fi kind of world. I love sci-fi. Was Cronenberg someone that was like on that, I don't know if you have an official list or not, but someone that, like, it feels like you've gravitated towards like interesting cool directors, which speaks well of your taste.

I loved Videodrome, of course, and, yeah, I'd been wanting to work with him. So, yeah, and I mean, all of his movies, I just think they're fascinating. And he's the most normal guy on the planet. Right. He's just like, boring in a way, almost. He's just like, you know, he's just like his family is the center of his world. And yet he makes these insanely creative, odd, frightening movies. And has done it kind of virtually on his own terms.

Like, I don't think he's ever moved to L.A. He's still a Canadian, right? Through and through. Miami Blues is a crazy movie. I don't think I'd seen it since it came out. The fact that, like, it exists is amazing. It's just so dark and bizarre. And what you and Alex's performance is insane, Fred Ward.

Like, all of it is just bananas to me. What are your remembrances of shooting that? That was, like, for me, a role that I, for some reason, really connected to. Yeah. I, like, flew to Okachobi. I met all these young girls there. And I just fell into her skin in this kind of effortless way. Yeah.

And I loved working with Alec. He made me laugh so hard. And he's just so damn good. He's great in it. And we just had a blast. I mean, a lot's been made, I know, like, in like the narrative of your career. Like, like, it does seem like you've played a disper, or at least early in the career, a disproportionate amount of prostitutes or damaged young women.

Did it feel like that at the time? time or did that feel like you know it didn't because the roles were so different i mean susy wagner is a lot closer to stacey hamilton than she is to trallelah right she's such a good girl right you know i mean it's like i've played like three good girls in my life and i would say susy wagner is one of them and stacey and lisa yeah you know and the rest are pretty complicated but those women are not complicated at all and um it didn't so no it's just like that's what they did for a living. It didn't define them.

It didn't define them. No. And they're just great parts. Yeah. Did, well, one I would, I guess you could argue that was maybe more, quote, unquote, normal or less damage that, that, that I feel like maybe you went in with like mixed emotions about it was like backdraft, a film like that. Right. You know what I mean? That was hard for me, actually, because I just didn't.

And I always felt bad. I remember apologizing to Ron Howard, just saying, I'm sorry. I don't think I did a very good job. I found it hard to, like I learned all about how to approach a role. Basically, my mother's a screenwriter, and so she does tremendous research, and she instilled that in me. So even for that role in backdraft, I did all this research, but for some reason, I couldn't find my way in. And so I just didn't feel like I did a great job on that. Is there a lesson from that you took going forward in terms of,

of like, that was also a big studio film, and it's hard to say no to that kind of a thing. And that was interesting to me. And working with Ron Howard was exciting to me and the cast, everything about it. I just didn't, I couldn't figure it out. There wasn't enough to chew on. There wasn't an angle in. There wasn't. For me, I just couldn't figure it out.

And it's probably a lot simpler than I made it, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so there's that. But then what happens is you start reading, the place I think actors can get into trouble is if you start reading too much about people saying you're always playing this or you're always doing that then you start making decisions like oh maybe I should do and then you start turning down things that really um appeal to you personally and that you find moving or you find distinct but you think oh no I can't play that because I've right done it and you just I think

as an actor it's really important to be more instinctual and true to yourself and you have to be true to yourself. Yeah. And you also, if you like a director and you don't understand, maybe don't understand the piece 100%. Go with it. Go with it. It's a director's medium. It really is. And you want that opportunity to work with those people that make great movies. So was there, it sounds like there was a period of time where you felt like you, maybe were making the wrong choices for whatever. I think so. Was there a specific time period you were talking about in terms of when you felt like you lost the priorities that had gotten to you were to where you were?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't, I don't want to list things because I don't want to put down movies that I made because that's not fair to the filmmakers. And obviously, I don't want to say the things that I turn down because it just makes me look like such an idiot. It's okay. It's all 9b. You can look it up if you really want, guys. But, no, because a lot of those things are wrong on the internet, actually. Well, how about this?

I'm curious. Again, I always just like to take the temperature of somebody's, like, interest in terms of as a film fan, because clearly you appreciate great work and great directors. What were the films, directors, even growing up? I mean, obviously, your mom was a screenwriter and an actress prior to that. Your dad was an actor. What was your first exposure to the medium of film, and what did you really fall in love with? Well, I mean, the film that really sort of shook me up and made me realize what you could do as an actor was Dr. Afternoon. And that, I had just never seen anything that visceral, anything that moving, that alive, that real.

I was just blown away by that night. I think I was 14. And so I had to have people in line buy me tickets. I wasn't telling my parents that I was going to Dog Day Afternoon. And by the way, one that holds up, too. I can watch that forever. That and Rosemary's baby, it doesn't matter. matter how my, I always get sucked right in.

It doesn't matter if I know what's going to happen. I'm, I'm right there with it. But yeah, that really was profound. I'd always wanted to act, but that was a film where you realized what acting could be. Right.

Was, because in hearing you talk about throughout your career, it sounds like your mom has always been a sounding board, like in a very important one to you from the beginning to up until now. was she supportive from the get-go in terms of when you started to really make your intentions known? Yeah, because I was very, very young. Also, you know, I grew up in Hollywood. So to me, that's what people did when they grew up.

It wasn't like some far-off dream. But she wouldn't let me take acting classes. So that was like a little bit of like hardship for me because I really wanted to start acting. Even if it was in a class, I just wanted to learn and do and do. And she was really smart, you know, she just feels like children are instinctual. And you don't want to start molding that. Right.

Because there's so many bad kid actors because. You don't want to see the machinery, especially for a kid. No, it's all about make believe and pretend. And that's all it should be. So she was very anti any kind of acting class. And finally, when I was 14, you know, I was old enough to convince her to let me go to, like, a Lee Strasbourg like summer program.

And I would walk there. It was on Hollywood Boulevard, and I would walk there. Is she someone you still ask questions for advice, et cetera, too? Yeah. Yeah. No, she's great. She's great. And, well, that's a good segue to Georgia, which is a special film for you, I know.

And, again, another film that holds up, both you and Mayor Winningham and Ted Levine's great in it. There's a lot of great performances in it. And talking about singing and using your voice, like, I mean, heartbreaking scenes between you and Mare, the duet, like there's so much that conveyed in the different approaches to singing the different abilities, et cetera. It must have been, I mean, is that you count that not only the finished product,

but the filming of that as something that was quite special? Oh, yes. I mean, I really, I, that movie is hugely significant for me. You know, first of all, my mother wrote it. It was a story I came up with. Yeah. So loosely based on your sister's. But I'm my older sister.

Yeah. Yeah. But my older sister actually has quite a beautiful voice. But I'm the, you know, I'm the one in my family who's singing voice is not so great. Quentin likes my singing voice, actually. But most, you know, people, especially in my family, don't like it so much. But. Are those scenes in particular, fun, painful, whatever, to watch in terms of that you're singing?

No, it's not painful at all because it's really, I got so deep into Sadie that it's not like watching myself sing. Yeah. You know, and Sadie just lives so far out on the edge. You know, she's just like this raw nerve and just trying to survive. And she wants success so badly. She wants all that stuff that's so meaningless so badly, you know. But she has something that Georgia doesn't have, which is that she is really alive and she really is experiencing things. And she is really raw when she sings.

There's nothing polished about it. And that is an art in a way, you know, to be that sort of vulnerable and that naked when you perform is not something most people do. I mean, it's not something a lot of people want to see. Right. But it is, there's a lot of bravery to that, you know. In this season of like tributes and all this kind of stuff, I would assume you're probably being exposed to more and more clips of your older work than maybe in your usual day-to-day life. Is it, can you warn something from seeing some of your older work or even recent work?

I haven't really been watching. Really? No. Is that? I mean, they've been having like a retrospective right now, like we were saying. But I don't, I'm not. I went for a Q&A. the first night. Got it. So is that, is that your idea of a perfect hell to watch yourself

in? Not necessarily. It depends on the project. Yeah. Okay. I mean, if I think I'm bad in something, I'm not going. Got it. I'm just not going to watch it. Um, well, one film that that you didn't end up in, but I wonder if you're comfortable talking about. I'm just fascinated by Kubrick is eyes wide shut. Oh, I loved making that. I mean, I had the best time. And I mean, he was such a mensch. I mean, really a sweetheart of a man. Well, that's fascinating. Yeah, saying to hear. I mean, he shot that for like literally like two years. And it basically, I think, what, they needed you for reshoots and you had another project. I was doing existence. There you go. So I begged Kronenberg, you know, but we're in the middle of a shoot. So Kronenberg actually got on the phone with Stanley and he said, I can give you four days. And he said, I need two weeks, which you know with him is probably going to be more like three weeks. So I just couldn't do it. So in your mind is the reward? I mean, you got an experience with Stanley Kubrick. The reward for me is. always the doing. Yeah. It really is. I mean, that's, that's really what you have as an actor. I mean, yes, we have the movies that you can look back on or, you know, other people can see and you can

share with them, but the reward is always in the making of the movie. Well, it's also more in your control. I mean, you, like, at the end of the day, even if it was a great experience, as we all know, sometimes it just doesn't work. So you should focus on the actual experience and enjoying that for what it's worth. Because that's where you did. That's where you're, that's where you're while you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's great to watch a movie.

But, like, there's some movies that I turn down, that I regret turning down. But then I see the movie, and the performance, the woman that ended up doing the movie is so good that I just enjoy seeing the movie, you know? So it's, it's funny. But it is, like, I miss working on the hateful hateful eight. And one of the really lovely things about being nominated is that it keeps it alive that much longer. Right. Because when a movie comes out, it's over. Right.

You know, before it comes out, you still, it's still, it's not out. It's not out. Yeah. Yeah. So it still is a lie for you in a certain way. So that's, I mean, one of the many nice things, but it is one of them. Did a, did, dobrook put you through like dozens and dozens and dozen? I mean, you had to.

That's his technique. Tousins and dozens and dozens of takes. Yeah, absolutely. And how was that process? Was it something that? It was really interesting because what he would do is he would do a take and then have you come over to the monitor. and then watch the take with him. I mean, that's why it takes so long.

Yeah, yeah. You know, and then he would tell you things he liked specifically in the take and things he didn't like. And moments he wanted you to repeat and moments he didn't. And then sometimes he would give you line readings, which that's one thing that's kind of hard for me. Yeah. A line reading because I don't.

So once it's in your head, it's not the way my brain works. Yeah. Because then you're imitating someone else as opposed to. Yeah, and I don't know what it means. Right. For me, I kind of need to know what something means, and then I could probably give you the line reading. Right. But it's hard.

I want to be good at everything, but I'm not, you know, so that, like, I try. Like, if somebody gives me a line reading, I'll just do it because I want to please the director. But I, it doesn't mean I understand what I'm doing. And that maybe doesn't matter, you know. But for your enjoyment of the process, too, you feeling like you know what you're doing, you want to know. the thoughts behind it, the feelings behind it. Yeah, I need to know that. I mean, or I like to know that because it's just easier to live it if you know what's behind something.

Right. Well, what about a process of someone like Altman who you worked with a couple times, who, again, is very unique? I mean, that's, you know, infamously loose atmosphere. Was that like that context that he would bring, that environment he would bring something that you felt a great comfort in? Yeah, although it's very terrible, that can be terrifying as well because he'll literally say the script is just a blueprint. It's a skeleton. I need you to go flesh it out and bring it to me and I don't even really want to know. I just want to see it on the day.

Surprise me and make it great. You know, and that's a- That's putting a lot on. Weight on your shoulders. It's fun. Like, didn't we hire writers? Didn't we? Can't we?

I mean, there's something kind of exhilarating about it and exciting about it. But, yeah, I mean, he puts a lot in your hands. But it's kind of great. I mean, there's, like, no marks. There's, he just follows you, you know. If there's children and you're supposed to be their mom, like in shortcuts, he wants you to give them the direction. Wow.

Because he wants them to look at you like you're their parent. Right. He's just, he was so smart and lovely. And you would always have these dinners with the cast, you know, and every night the dinners would get bigger and bigger. Directors that have gotten away thus far, who are the ones that, whether you were referencing them specifically earlier or just generally that, that are on that list. Who would I like to? Oh, Paul Thomas Anderson.

Here's a random thing I want to mention. When I'm researching, he put you in thanks to both boogie nights, I think, and Magnolia at the end credits. Yes. Is there a story behind that? I watched a lot of the early cuts. Nice. So that was very nice. It's a good friend to have. Yeah, it was very, very nice. And he actually was really, very nice. And he actually was really kind and very helpful on anniversary party because he watched early cut. Oh, nice. So did Quentin, actually. Amazing. Yeah. Wait, Quentin watched an early cut of anniversary party way back when. Yeah. Yeah. Which to date is your only directing credit. You're now in coming. Yeah. Is that something that if I dropped $20 million in your lap today that you would direct something

the next day? You want to give me $20 million? First I need to enter the lotto. Yeah. Well, do that. Okay. But is that something that you wish you would have. I'd love to do it again. But, you know, it takes time because I wanted, I would like to redirect again. But I would want to be something that I wrote. Yeah. Are you always writing or do you have scripts that you've written? I have a few. Yeah? Yeah. But, you know, once, if you've written something that's a long time ago, sometimes you kind of fall out of love with it and then, or it's just, but I don't know. I haven't read them in a long time. So looking ahead, I believe, I don't know if it's official that you're going to be

working with Alex Garland, yes, on his next film? Is that safe to say? I'm hoping to, yes. I hope that is happening. Very talented writer and director, obviously. I love it. I loved it so much. So has that been fun to, I would think, like, part of this fun season is like the Oscars lunch

and all these things, like you're getting, not only to hang with your hateful eight cast members, but you're hanging with some pretty amazing filmmakers and actresses and actors. Yeah. And connecting with and like whether it's friendships or career stuff. I'm seeing people haven't seen in a long, long time. When's the last time you were at the Oscars? Oh, a long time ago. Yeah.

Yeah. So, and are you able to even comment on Twin Peaks? There's rumors that you might be in Twin Peaks. I know nothing about it. Okay. Well, I'll just say that would be a match made in heaven. You and David Lynch, speaking of idiosyncratic, fascinating directors. Well, I can't thank you enough for coming by today.

As I said, I'm a huge, if you couldn't tell from like that this is your life, nature of the conversation, I'm a huge fan of your work and a huge fan of this film. And hopefully when you see my crazy face on the Oscar carpet, I'll be a source of calm for you. You will. I'll try. I'm going to come right straight to you. Okay, good. I'll be there for you. Good luck that night.

Thank you. Good to see as always, Jennifer. Nice, thank you. Thanks again to Good Therapy.org for sponsoring today's episode of happy, sad, confused. Good Therapy.org is the most trusted online resource for finding a therapist. Meeting with a therapist or counselor can help people to live happy, fulfilling lives. Since 2007, Good Therapy.org has helped millions of people find qualified counselors and therapists. There is hope. There are people who care. Change is possible.

Find the right therapist at www. www.goodthreaty. What movies deserve to be in the all-time canon of great films? How about American Beauty? What struck me watching American Beauty as how much it felt like a period piece, even though it's only 16 years old. Forrest Gump. This movie gets painted as a conservative movie, but this movie just hates everybody. Fast times at Ridgemont High.

Amy Heckerling cares about teenagers and understands teenagers. Star Wars. 3PO is terrible, and he treats his best friend really poorly all the time. Why is he his best friend? They're just two robots. Are my blender and my toaster friends? Join the conversation on the canon with new episodes every Monday. Listen on Wolf Pop, howl, or your favorite podcast app. Pop. Pop? Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop.

Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. This has been a Wolf Pop production, executive produced by Paul Shear, Adam Sacks, Chris Bannon, and Matt Goorley. For more information and content, visit wolfpop.com. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James.

We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Chalemay playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bagonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLewis's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.