Happy Sad Confused - Jennifer Morrison

Episode Date: April 20, 2015

The talented, funny, and overall awesome Jennifer Morrison joins Josh to talk about how she became a part of a Nick Lachey video, making her directorial debut with her new short film “Warning Labels,” why she didn’t really consume pop culture until college, and much more. Send your questions to Josh on Twitter by tweeting @joshuahorowitz with the hashtag #HappySadConfused! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 X-E-90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer

or go to explorevolvo.com. D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Knight's definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building?

From this moment on, none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Said Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome back to the podcast. I say welcome back because, God, do you feel the regret, the sorrow in my voice?

If you think this doesn't mean anything to me, guys, well, you're wrong. Two weeks off from the podcast. Life got in the way, guys. I've been The day job, if you don't know it, is MTV News, correspondent interviewer extraordinaire. And I was in Los Angeles for over a week

for the MTV Movie Awards, which were a blast hosted by Amy Schumer. And it was crazy. I mean, I'll give you the click down low. It was, so this is my fifth year in a row, co-hosting the award show Red Carlin.

so it's a live red carpet thing josh harrow it's your friendly podcaster in full ryan seacrest juliana ransick mode hopefully doing it with more class and dignity no no offense to you guys but i do my own thing i do a little differently anyway um it's it's a it's a kind of an out-of-body experience to host one of those things it's one thing to do carpets where you're like on other people's turf but when you're hosting it for mtv and it's like out show and you're you know you're in the center of it all it's it's a it's a great feeling it's also a lot of responsibility it's also a lot of balls in the air people talking in your ear people screaming but it was great my co-host was jessie jay this is the crazy part of

hosting these pre-shows for mtv is every year uh i tend to have the last few years i've been co-hosting with somebody that's a lot different than me in many respects. It comes from a much different walk of life at my position. So, like, for instance, this year, Kelly Osborne was one of our hosts. She wasn't with me, but Jesse J., the big, humongous pop star songwriter, was my co-host, which was crazy. Like, when else am I going to hang out with Jesse J. for a day? She could not have been sweeter.

She got off a plane from Australia. she's hosting i think she's like a judge on the voice in australia uh got off a plane six in the morning sunday morning straight into rehearsals we rehearsed all day and uh we were off and running uh live uh for half an hour but taping stuff all throughout the day you know maybe this is too much information but it's i don't know maybe it's interesting to you guys to know sort of how the sausage is made it was it was a lot of fun uh ran backstage did interviews with people like vindiesel which is amazing you should look it up on mtb's youtube page It's a, it's about a five-minute interview with Vin Diesel that's been viewed like six million times.

I'm not even joking. You guys love Vin Diesel. People love Vin Diesel. Who knew? I mean, I like Vin Diesel, but people love Vin Diesel. It's a kind of crazy interview because he's kind of near tears throughout it. He has just sung a song about Paul Walker, which ironically, here's a fun little context for this interview. So I'm backstage at movie awards.

I have no idea what's going on on stage. I literally have no vantage point. no monitor. I don't know what's happening in the NTV movie awards. All I do know is my friend and colleague Eric is texting me updates on what's going on on stage. He texts me, Vin just sang an ode to Vin. Okay. So that makes sense to me in a weird way. Vin Diesel, if you don't know, is a singer sometimes? He's posted some bizarre videos of himself singing Rihanna songs, et cetera, on Facebook that have gone viral. So I'm like, okay, it's a bit. Amy Schumer or had him do a bit.

What I didn't know until after the fact was that this was a heartfelt song from the Fast and Furious movie that he was singing as an ode to Paul. Paul Walker, of course, sadly, deceased. Eric had miswritten, wrote to me saying it was an ode to Vin. So what happens, if you watch this interview, fun fact, if you watch the interview, I'm smiling the first minute or two of the interview because I think Vin has just come off stage doing the most hysterical. thing ever when in fact he's sung a song to his deceased friend so there's a little a little fun fact for you guys um i want to say also trying something new this week um and in weeks ahead um i want to hear from you guys definitely always um and i said to you guys you know send me any questions you have for me i'm happy to answer anything silly stupid awesome uh just use the hashtag happy say i confused

tweet it at me or just use the hashtag Happy Say Confused and send in your questions and I'll answer them right here on the intro to these shows. So without further ado here's the first one. We'll just do this one this week and next week hopefully you guys will send me some more questions. This one comes from Jonzing Four.

I don't know what you're Jonesing for. It looks like a saltine according to your photo. Jonesing four's question, greatest moment in your Star Wars fanboy life. Excellent question, Jonesing Four, because If you have listened to me, if you look at me, you can tell I'm a giant Star Wars fan. I'm, I'm obsessed with.

I totally hit the sweet spot for me. I know that's not unusual, but it really is a profoundly important thing in my life. And I've watched the trailer. I'm taping this on Friday. The trailer for the new The Force Awakens came out yesterday, and I'm obsessed with it. Like, I can be jaded about trailers. I almost teared up watching it. Anyway, that's not the answer to your question.

The greatest moment in my Star Wars fanboy life, I've had the privilege of interviewing a bunch of the cast from the original films. I've interviewed Mark Hamill. I've interviewed Anthony Daniels. But I had never done an extended interview with Harrison Ford until Comic-Con, was it last year?

I think it was a year and a half ago. So maybe 2013. He was there for Ender's Game. And it was live. We were streaming live on ntv.com and it was so much fun. Harrison Ford's reputation, and rightfully so, is he's a bit of a curmudgeon in interviews. He's really dry. But it was a very, it was kind of like a combative but friendly interview in that I, I don't know, I think in a weird way we actually got along.

Nothing controversial happened, but you guys should look it up on, again, on YouTube. or whatever. I'm sure if you Google Josh Horowitz, Harrison Ford, Comic-Con, you'll find the interview. My favorite moment of it was, I think at one point I said to him, like, I feel like we're not clicking Harrison because I was worried. He was just staring at me, and he just looked at me in that dry Harrison Ford way and just said, no, no, this is me clicking with you.

And that was a pretty huge fanboy moment for me. um so yes i can't wait to cover the force awakens uh in a few months j j abrums uh is i'm a huge fan of so i'm really confident that this one will deliver but anyway that's a talk for another time right now i want to talk to you about this week's episode which is jennifer morrison uh i love Jennifer Marson. Jennifer Morrison, full disclosure, and we mentioned in the interview, is an acquaintance of mine, thankfully, through my brother. My brother is named Adam Horowitz, and is a very successful writer, and co-created

a show called Once Upon a Time that Jennifer is the star of. So, as you might imagine, over the years, I've gotten a chance to get to know the cast, and Jennifer is awesome. She's, you'll hear it in this interview. very talented very funny um just a easy person to talk to and um excited for her we talk about this interview she's got a new short film she has just directed her directing debut that i can honestly say is great um it's called warning labels it's at the tribeca film festival catch it if you can this week it's going to be at some other film festivals just look out for it

warning labels directed by jennifer morrison i have a feeling she'll be directing more um and it shows a lot of great promise and I'm sure she's going to kill her future projects as well behind the camera as she does on. So that's about it guys. As always, hit me up on Twitter. Send me your questions. Hashtag happy, say I'm confused. And in the meanwhile, enjoy Jennifer Morrison. I'm also frankly thankful. I know we haven't had enough great women on the show. Here's one for you guys. And next week's guest is another amazing actress. I won't say who yet because you never know. should be another good one. Anyway, here's my chat with Jennifer Morrison.

Welcome to Super Casual Fun Chat with Jennifer Morrison. It's good to see you. Good to see you, too. Look at your glasses. Thanks. Super cool. We were just talking about our mutual love affair with New York. Yes.

You spent a lot of time here over the years, yeah? Yeah, I have. I have a place here. So it's been a nice excuse to be back in my favorite bed. I'll preface. We'll get into the short, which I told you, I really loved. I honestly did. Thank you. It's really good. But you should know in my copious research, I started this morning by watching a Nicolshea music video with you and Dax Shepard. Okay. So that was my wake-up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did she connect to MTV? I get it. I get it. No, I'm not even trying to connect it. Honestly, I was just like looking at the IMDB and I'm like, that doesn't look right. Right. That looks interesting. Yeah. That must have been a big high point in this illustrious career. I feel like it was maybe the peak right there. I was posting since then. I've just, it's been a gentle coast downward since then.

Yeah, yeah, I, that was such a random thing. I was living in this little apartment. I should not make noise with things that I'm feeling with one talking on a microphone. That's the inception totem. It's okay. I was living in this little apartment in Hollywood. A friend of mine, who's a director, called my phone over and over and over again at 4.45 or something in the morning until I finally woke up and picked up and was like, what? What is that important?

This better be the best job ever. He's like, I'm in Calabasas and you need to come here now. And I was like, for what? I'm so tired. And he was like, it's a NICLche video. I need you. I just need you. And I was like, what?

So anyway. That's friendship. That's true. You got to be there for your friends. So I went out there, and that was the first time I met Nick, and that was when he was with Jessica and Ashley was there. And honestly, I had a lovely time. I was really happy to do it.

Dax Shepard was in the video, and that was when I met Dax. So a lot of really nice friendships came out of doing that, and we had a really good time. For checkered pasts, if that's as bad as it gets, it's not so bad. That you know of. We'll just leave it at that. We're just getting started. See, I warm you up. I lull you into a false sense of security

and then I go in for it So we should And I do want to talk about this short that you direct This is your directing debut Yeah, it is really cool Thank you So we're in Tribeca Film Festival Just got underway as we tape this

We're hours probably what day or tomorrow is your premiere, right? Yeah, my film premiere is tomorrow, yeah So is this something in the cards You've been trying to do for a while? You know, it's interesting, it just felt a little bit faded actually and something I've been intrigued to do for a long time I think when you're on camera

for so many years you start to notice certain things pick up certain things you start to see how the machine all works and how the puzzle fits together and so I started to feel like I had a pretty solid understanding of all that and did a couple of indie films where we were under such

time duress and such stress that I ended up being really involved with the directors in terms of okay how do we make this efficient? How do we get it done? How do we get the coverage we need? And so in that process, I also learned a lot.

And so then I was really, several times people have been like, oh, are you going to direct? You're going to direct? I was really thinking about it. And I found this piece, this short film called Morning Labels that my friend Janelle Riley wrote that I really loved. I thought it had kind of a quirky, fun, overtone, but had really strong undertones of symbolism about life

and connectedness. and not connectedness and people trying to find themselves. And I just liked kind of that mixture of both things. And so I treated it like film school. I thought, well, this is the best way to learn is to just do. So I had worked with this producer, Andrew Karlberg, on some girls, which is a film that Neil Leibute wrote. Sure.

And Andrew produces pretty much everything, or most of the things that Neil works on. And so then Andrew and I got very close on that film, and he said, I'll produce a short film if you want to do it. And I always joke that he's my producing soulmate. You've got to find those people. You know, those people where you just fit with them in a way where something can actually come out of it. So he was incredibly supportive and instrumental in building a team and a crew and helping me put together department heads.

Sure. Did it feel? I mean, you know, it's a short, so you're not like you're not talking a 30, 40-year shoot. You're probably shot this in a few days, I would imagine. So, like, that's intense, though. It was really intense. The first day we shot nine pages with four actors coming in, coming out, sitting down, standing up, moving around.

I was like, okay, if I can shoot nine pages on my first day of directing, I'm going to be okay. I'm like, if I get through this, I'm going to be okay. Well, and not to mention, I mean, it really, I mean, the first shot is a, like a continuous shot, which you may or may not have masked a couple cuts in there. I don't know. But it has such a great, it really has a nice warmth to it and a tone to it. And it's really funny.

It has Karen Gillen, who I love and adore, and the whole cast is really good in it. But yeah, it's, it's, I don't know, I confess I don't consume a lot of shorts. It makes me want to kind of like look out there for more of them because it's fun. It's an interesting medium because you have such a short period of time to get people on your side and to take them on a ride. And part of the reason I wanted to do that long opening shot, the first, I think it's like a minute and 22 seconds or something like that, is one. long shot. And part of the reason I wanted to do that was to give people time to settle into watching what they were watching because the reality with the short film is most people are going to watch it on a computer or an iPhone or some kind of smaller device. And so I took that

very much into consideration in terms of even when the labels pop out and things like that. Like on a big screen, you can read their labels. But I knew that most people were not going to see it in a theater on a big screen. So, you know, I really was thinking about that. I thought, you know what, when I get sent stuff, I'm always kind of like half distracted, and then I settle in about a minute in and then it really has me. So I kind of built that into the structure so that people had a chance to kind of go, oh, wait, why is she waving at a guy in a hazmat suit? I was, you know, I kind of built that distraction factor into the film.

And then we get into the meat of what's going on between everybody and the warning labels and all that stuff. And that's kind of once I feel like I sort of, you know, seduced everyone in. lull them in with your fancy brother of filmmaking. Because I did look at this as film school for me, I had several films that I loved that had moments that I really admired that I did my own version of those things. So tell me, yeah.

So the opening shot for me was like my version of the opening shot of Harold and Maud. Oh, sure. And the difference is they're looking at the protagonist and I'm from the perspective of the protagonist. But it was still a similar journey of you see his. just his feet and he comes down the steps and you see more and more of him and then you see him put the little he even puts a name tag on actually and he lights the candles and he's just not in the CDC it's just so slightly different yes he's faking suicide which is a little different but um so yeah so

that was kind of my template for what I was um inspired by for that um and being inside the hazmat suit I was trying to get that feeling of the graduate when he was in the scuba gear and he's, you know, just taking in the world with so much between you in the world and feeling so disconnected and disoriented. So there were all these things that I had pulled from some of my favorites and thought, all right, I want to find a way to do this so that I can learn how to do it, you know, and then hopefully next time I direct kind of grow and branch out from there. So does, do you have like the bug now? Is it sort of like, because you, I mean, you have to feel satisfied and excited about this one. And you're in a film festival, big one.

Like, it's kind of cool. I'm very excited. I, you know, I mean, I think the big. thing was I didn't know what would come in it. I just made what I imagined. So that was the most exciting part of it. And then I actually, my friend Anthony Timbacchus, who wrote Warrior, the film that I was in, he really loved the short film and has given me a script, his optioned me a script that I am obsessed with. And it's very different from warning labels, but at the same time kind of takes some of the themes we were exploring in morning labels. It takes them to another level. So it feels like the right next step thematically for me as a director.

So the goal is to do that next hiatus. Exciting. That's amazing. So I feel like I should put the disclaimer up top. I'll probably put it in the intro as well. But just so people know, my brother is Adam Horowitz. Your brother is Adam Horowitz. Who is my boss.

Is kind of your boss? He's definitely my boss. I don't think he even knows I'm doing this today. He's 100% my boss. This is a unique interview in that I was thinking this morning, like, both of us, he admittedly a hundred times more than I have, have written for you in a way. You were very kind enough to do a little part in a project that I'm still. Which was very fun.

That was amazing. That was speaking of a day of shooting nine pages in one day. Oh, my God. You guys were churning it out. I don't know how you did it. That was bananas, but so much fun. We'll talk about that at a later date when we sell it to some huge network, which we're working on. But, uh, but yeah.

I mean, it's, it's been so fun to get to know you over the years at these comic cons and things through my job and through Adam. And I do feel like one of the things I appreciate, like, you know, when you talk about these reference points like Harold and Maud and stuff is in our conversations. And in reading about you, I feel like you definitely, like, I know you're a voracious reader. I know you, you consume pop culture. You are a consumer as much as you are. I am an excellent consumer. This is important. My credit cards.

So were you that growing up? Were you like from a start? No. No. This is, it's sort of, well, new-ish. It's not new recently. I would say... Two years ago, you were like, there's this thing called the Internet. Oh, my God. The interweb. It's real. I would say since college. I was, I had a really, in a good way, I think, a really sort of sheltered upbringing. I was raised in a suburb of Chicago, and my parents are teachers. And so I was always around books and literature. Like, that's always been a part of my life. And reading has always been a part of my life. And reading has always been

part of my life. But back then, it was more just the classics and just the stuff that you were reading for school. And I didn't have a lot of points of reference of pop culture. I actually, interestingly, last night, got asked why I felt a little bit socially awkward in high school. And I said, because I didn't really consume pop culture until college. And so I didn't have reference points for things. I hadn't seen the movies people had seen. I hadn't heard the music people had heard. So why was that? It was partly just, I was, a really driven student and so I was totally consumed with all the AP classes and the calculus and the this and that and I wanted to keep all my options open. I was in the show choir. I was in

the marching band. I was on the soccer team. I was a cheerleader. Like, it was ridiculous. And so I didn't see past any of that, you know, and my parents, because they worked as teachers at the high school, their life was consumed by the marching band and music and the high school in that world. So my life was because you sort of become what your parents are. It's how you start to to pull away from that and find your own identity. And so it wasn't until I was away and in college. And this is a story I probably shouldn't tell, but because it's you, I will.

It's just us. I just remember very early on in college, it was like maybe the first time I was kind of like making out with a guy in his room, you know? And he had a radio head's okay computer playing. And I was like, whoa. Are you listening to this? What is this?

Like, wait, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. come back and I was like no this is the most amazing thing I've ever heard and he's like right right right come here and I was like what is this what is this called who makes this where does this come from like it was like I like aliens had landed the poor guy it was just like oh great should have a different album on you know sucks to have good taste of music in that one instance and then it was like you know that was before iTunes and all this stuff so I'm like the next day I'm like at the CD store trying to find every radio head Ced and trying to figure it out.

Those are the great moments, though. Everybody has that. I mean, I remember, yeah, like, we all have it. Like, I remember, like, first watching the Godfather, like, and I'm, like, 15 or something and putting that double cassette in, and you're like, what have you? People not fucking told me about this.

Exactly. How is this existed for all this time without me? It's amazing, but it's also super exciting. Yeah, because when I was reading about you in high school, I'm like, oh, my God, I don't know if I would have enjoyed being around her. This is a type A crazy person. No, I was, what's her name from, election yeah I was I was 100% Tracy click but you see me like these are my glasses now I've figured out how to wear cool ones

but I'm minus eight in both eyes I am blind and I did not have nice ones back then so I had terrible glasses and I you know I was really trying to get A's straight A's Well as you say it's a lot of you parents were teachers were they teaching at your school They were that doesn't help either I mean the thing is the sort of duality of is that my dad was one of the best teachers I've ever had. He's truly extraordinary. He was teacher of the year in Illinois in 2004 and well deserved. I mean, he really isn't one of the most extraordinary teachers I ever had. So I wouldn't want to trade having had him as a teacher, but then not only was I socially awkward, I was in the marching band, and even the kids in the marching

band didn't like me because they thought I was first chair because of nepotism. So I was really I really, you know, kept my nose in a book so that I... You really do sound like Tracy Flick, like, kind of like... I really was good at making frenemies or something. I don't know what you told. So when did you relax? When did you finally kind of like, was it the radio head night and the next day, like, suddenly? Well, I think, you know, I think by senior year, I started to get a sense of it,

but by then I was like way too, like, in a hole with the people that I was around to figure that out. But by then, how did you already... You've already been doing a little acting and modeling, right? Yeah, I've been working pretty consistently. I always did well with grownups. Like, it was always, I was great with my teachers. I was great with adults. I just didn't know how to connect with people my own age.

And then I really, I just got much better about it in college. And, you know, part of it is just being out of an environment you've been in for a long time and breaking certain habits or getting some perspective on yourself, having new friends that go, like, hey, why are you doing that? You know, weirdly, one of my best friends from college kind of changed. changed my name. Like, my parents had always called me Jenny growing up. And I don't really had, I didn't have like an issue with it or anything. I never really thought about it. It's just what they called me. Sure. And then, um, got to college and my friend Colleen, who I adore and is still

one of my best friends. She's like, oh, God, there was this girl, Jenny that I really didn't like in high school. You're Jen. And I was like, oh. And so everywhere we went, and she was so social, she's like, this is Jen. So I said, like, I had a rain change. I was totally kind of reinvented. And I don't know. I think some of the characters that I played on stage started to really change me as well. You know, you start exploring things that are really outside of the wheelhouse you should be playing in because you're in a college theater setting where you're playing a 50-year-old woman when you're 18 and, you know, just things where they're great growing experiences but would make no sense in the real world but force you to consider the world in different ways and force you to consider. consume different kinds of material in order to do a good job. So a lot of the ways I started to find those touchtones in pop culture and literature was

by studying to play a character and then trying to consume what would make sense for them and then going, oh, well, but then I also, I like that. And then kind of branching out from there. Hey, guys, Josh Harowitz here with a little message from one of our sponsors, Stone Reset from Gem Vera. This is a service, guys. Stone reset is a service that lets you handcraft new settings for your unique and previous stones from your existing jewelry collection. So you can refresh your jewelry box, essentially.

You can transform all those valuable pieces that you have that have been collecting dust into actual stylish and meaningful pieces that you can actually wear again with pride and, you know, all that. You can reset your special heirloom stones. You can turn them into lifelong engagement rings. You can update existing engagement rings through reset for special anniversaries that are coming up. And best of all, it's super simple. You can request a free, insured, prepaid shipping kit to send a stone in for measurement. After their expert jewelers inspect it, you'll be sent a list of possible designs. You choose your favorite design with your preferred metal, any accent stones, and they'll handcraft the new setting right from scratch.

And if you don't love any of the options, don't worry, they'll send the jewelry immediately back and paid and insured packaging, no questions asked. So get started at stone reset.com slash happy, and you'll get a 15% off your order. That's stone reset.com slash happy. So, okay, so flash forward to 2015 where you've gone to the other end of the spectrum. Kind of maybe or not. Everyone just thinks I'm lying about my past. They're like, what? It just doesn't make any sense with the percent I know now.

So what do you consume now? everything? Anything? What's your filter? I wish I had more hours in the day. I always have piles of books and such great recommendations of things that I want to read and see. I, I've been doing a thing where I work through directors that I admire from start to finish. So I'll start with their first film and I'll work all the way through. I love that, yeah. I find that I learn a lot about the process and about the way they see filmmaking by seeing where they start and where they grow and what themes they explore and um just visually how things change and um so i've done that with several directors and did several directors before i even shot warning labels but i've continued

that since then who's been a cool one or two that that recently igmar bergman i've been really um rose mcgiver was my roommate this last year in vancouver because she was shooting i zombie while shooting once upon a time and she would come home she'd be like are you watching some weird foreign film again. It's like every time she walked in, it was like a black and white, bizarre language. Someone playing chess with death. And I'm like, you know, I'm like sitting on the edge of the table, like trying to figure it out and rewinding things.

And she's like, what are you doing? Can't we just watch love actually, please? So, yeah. And then, you know, interestingly, I, right before Iigmar, I did, um, Lars Ventrier. And I don't, it's weird because I, I don't necessarily, I wouldn't necessarily, I wouldn't sit down and be like, what a fun movie to watch. Right. His stuff is so intense. Very brutal, yeah. But then also reading about his life changed the way I started seeing his

films. So he was raised on this, not to get too far into him, sorry. He was raised on a communist, like, or a Marxist commune, I guess. And there were no rules and no regulations. And as a child, that left him totally panicked at all times because no one told him when to eat or how to get food or when to do his homework or there were no... Right. It was just a total free-for-all. And kids without any kind of limits or structure feel like they might die at any moment. You know, just cognitively at that age, we're at a place where if you don't feel like someone's going to provide for you,

you actually think you're going to die all the time. And so he was raised in this state of panic, and he feels like that's what's caused a lot of his phobias and his, like, like OCD kind of things and obsessiveness over certain things. And then you see that a lot in his films, the way he deals with this idea of boundaries and limits and structure. And around the time he was doing Breaking the Waves, which I think is my favorite film of his, he was having sort of a religious experience.

And so you can feel that in the filmmaking. Like he kind of got to a place in his life where I'm not quoting it exactly, but it's something like, you know, if you're going to choose between not believing in God and believing in God, he goes, I don't think the nothingness is going to judge you for choosing to believe in God. So it was almost like, by default, he felt like he wanted to have the structure and the ritual of Catholicism. And so you feel that in his film, once you know that. That's interesting, yeah, because it adds a whole other layer because you're right.

And he's clearly like a, you know, he's an extreme figure that has said some insane things. Oh, totally. But, like, without context, you're right, that context kind of, like, gives a whole other wear to those, which are already masterpieces, I would agree. I would put dancer in the dark in there, too, and a couple of them are pretty... I mean, just the stuff he's done, his, it's, I don't know. I don't, I, you know, unfortunately, people say dumb things. Yes. Well, he's a provocateur, too.

Yeah, yeah, and I also think there's a language barrier, possibly, I don't know. I, you know, I don't really know. I just know from, I'm kind of looking at these people purely technically of, like, the films they've made and the things that they've done. done technically, but I do find myself really differently invested in a film because having now, even though it was only 12 minutes, but now having made a film, I realized that it's just such a huge part of me. It feels so vulnerable. I remember when I pushed Send the first time I sent the link to the first few friends,

I was visibly shaking. And I didn't feel bad about what I sent, but it felt like the most vulnerable thing I had ever done because so much of me was in it. And I didn't write it and it's not my story and it's not about me. But every frame of it, every breath of it, every sound effect, every step, every joke that lands or doesn't land or, you know, it's like, it's all, they were all my choice, you know. And so you feel like, oh my God, I'm revealing so much of myself. Well, it's interesting because like, and obviously there's so much that you've acted in,

so much of body of work that you obviously feel connected to in a similar way. But it's another level, I would think. And I would think just to protect yourself over the years, you can't feel that kind of extreme emotion with every hour of once upon a time or else you're going to drive yourself insane. Right. I mean, you can in terms of being present in the takes, but I also don't have control over what they choose.

So I can build a character and I can do hundreds of hours of research, and I can give all sorts of my soul to it. And someone else is going to decide which moments are important. And someone else is going to decide what stays and what goes and how it gets cut together. They're going to move the scenes around and I'll think that I've built this arc and then it's put together in a totally different way. You're like, but I was, oh, okay, well, no, that's there and that's, oh, all right. So you kind of have to, like, let go as an actor and go like, I did what I could. Right.

But it's like putting dye in a cup of water. It's like, you know, I drop my little red dropper in it and it goes through it. But ultimately, it's someone else's cup of water, you know. So with directing, like, it's my cup of water. Like, I'm the one who's actually in control of what I'm going to say at the end of the day and who's what I'm putting in someone's hand is like a complete package, you know? So that feels like I have to take a lot more responsibility for it in the long run. So going back, I'm curious, like looking at, like, the transition that you made in just growing up,

going from, like, you know, teen actor to adult. Like, did it feel kind of seamless? Did it feel like there was consistency? Did it feel, when you look back, when people like me insist on making you look back, does it feel like there are huge ups and downs? Does it feel like a consistent, like I've been at working consistent actor? Or was it like, were there years early on where you're like, this might just not be, this is not going to work?

I don't think that I ever, I had like a stretch of time at one point, a couple years into being in L.A. where I didn't work for like 10 months. And because I'm such a workaholic that felt like an eternity, looking back, it really wasn't that big of a deal. But the way I've always, you know, it's interesting because I always say people take different transportation in the business. You know, it's like some people get on an elevator and they like go from the ground floor to the penthouse in one shot, you know. And some people are on an escalator where it's like, no, I don't even really have to walk up the stairs. Like, I'm still going like a little, you know, at a certain end length, but like they're sort of supported and they can just sort of hang out

while they go up the escalator. I feel like I've definitely just been on stairs, but very consistently. Like I'm, I have been stepping one step at a time and experiencing each step and taking it in. And, you know, there's certain things that can be arduous about that. But the good thing about it is that I feel like it's been in my control to keep stepping. So that's the part of it that I appreciate is that, you know, along the way, I feel like it has been continuous instead of really like spiky ups and downs, at least at this point. Hey, guys, today's episode of HappySat Confused. It's brought to you by one of our favorite sponsors. They sponsored earlier episodes, our friends at Pop Sugar, the Pop Sugar Must Have

Box. The Pop Sugar Must Have Box, as you probably know by now, and if you don't, shame on you. It's a monthly subscription featuring the absolute best of products at fashion, beauty, home, fitness, food, and more. And best of all, it's curated by the Pop Sugar editors, includes over $100 of handpicked full-sized products. The best of all, it's only $39.95. The contents are surprised each month. It's a perfect gift for someone special in your life. And hey, it's probably a perfect gift for you too. A past sugar must have boxes have had tons of great stuff in it. They've had the Bliss Beauty scrub, which alone was $48 dollars in value. Sadly, this month is already sold out, but, but you can secure next

months right now before it's gone. Past boxes have included products from Smashbox and William Sonoma, all sorts of amazing brands. So get your box now by using the code happy for $5 off at musthave.popshigger.com. That's code happy at musthave.pop sugar.com. How big a moment is it in, like, a relatively young career when you're, you get a lead role, but it's, it's, you know, I mean, you're self-aware enough, like, when you get a lead role in like urban legends, right? Right. That was probably the first lead, I would guess. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or at least a studio film of that kind of type. Yeah. Is that just all like, oh, my God, I've made it. This is awesome. I get to be the person here. Or is it like, I know what this is. It is what it is, but it's still cool. You know, I mean, what's the attitude?

around that. I, you know, I was a little bit ignorant back then because I was still in college. I shot that film while I was in college. You had just discovered radio head. I had just discovered radio head. I basically had just like been birthed out of my little eggshell. But I, uh, I didn't come from a family that knew about the business. You know, my parents are very logical and did the, did a great job of helping me make

early decisions, but I didn't have anyone around me that could really help guide me and say, you know what, because you're the lead in this. film like you should have a great manager when you finish this or you need to make sure this or that. I didn't have those kind of voices in my life. And so I didn't know what to expect. And I also didn't know how to strategically position myself for the next move. And I also really wanted to finish school. So I didn't want to leave Chicago. I wanted to finish at Loyola. I finished a year early, which helped. But. Tracy Flick again? Come on. Just stop already. I left her. I left her at Loyola University.

She's like literally buried in the rocks by the beach. Sure she comes out in moments. No, no. I'm just like, I'm just going to let her be, like we should put a little gravestone there. Like I bet you've never, I bet you're like the person that literally never comes to set

without knowing their lines like backwards and phones. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I definitely should be expected, but I'm sure some people don't. Yeah. And you know, everybody has their moment. I certainly,

I feel like it happens like twice a year maybe where no matter how hard I've worked on something, my brain has just decided that that day is not the day. Right. And, you know, I have different tricks that I figured out how to get through to, like, force myself to remember things or running stuff over and over again will help in those situations or whatever. So I always have ways out, but I've found in general in the business that preparedness, I don't

know if that's a word. I'm going to make it up, though, for my dictionary. Let's go with it. Preparedness is the key to freedom. Because if you are ready for the day, whether you're a director or an actor, whatever your job is, if you're really ready for the day, then you have the freedom to be artistic. So if I come into work and I'm not, if I haven't thought through my lines and I haven't thought through the arc of the storytelling and I haven't memorized, then I'm just hoping to say my lines right and that's not a performance. Whereas if I know that I'm prepared and I know that I've thought through all the logic, I cannot worry about that. No, it's in me somewhere.

And then I can actually make choices and I can connect with people and I can be present. And that's what, to me, is exciting about acting. So in order for me to be able to enjoy what I do, then being prepared is helpful. When you look at the films, not necessarily to say the film that's turned out the best, but like the experience that's like the one that you're trying to get back to, whether it's the filmmaker you're working with or the company of actors, what is the high watermark for you in terms of like that's the kind of environment that where I feel so satisfied and rewarded.

I would say there's, well, every job has bits of that for sure. And so I don't mean to diminish any job by not including them in this. But I would say there's two sort of pinnacle moments for different reasons. One being warrior. It was just such a phenomenal group of actors. Gavin O'Connor was an incredible director to work with because he pushes and pushes and pushes and pushes and asks and asks. I mean, I answered something like 150 questions about the character for him before we even met, you know, it was like, or we met the meeting, you know, with the first audition, but like before we even sat down. So asking just sort of what do you think?

What would this? It was like, what was her first kiss? What was her first love? Where did she go on vacation the first time? What was her first pet? What was, you know, building a life, which I'd do a version of that anyway to build a history for a character. But I'd never had a director be so, like, willing to participate. in that process, which is great because then you have someone to bounce it off of instead of doing it

internally with yourself. And he thought of questions that I hadn't thought of before. And then he had Joel Edgerton and I do the same thing together as a couple. So we built a marriage together. And you don't always have the luxury of doing that with the actor you're playing at crossroom. So then by the time we showed up on set, we had agreed on memories and a life that sort of felt very alive before we even got to work. So all of those things. things, like I was saying earlier about the idea of freedom, all of those things gained this space of ultimate freedom where there was so much room to play and to just be and to just feel confident that all of that structure and all that foundation was there. I also thought

the story was really special. Masa, whose last name I can't pronounce, but was the DP, I think, is so brilliantly talented. And he brought something really special to the way everything was framed and the camera movement. And interestingly, it was the only project that I've worked on in a long time that had playback. And I think for some people that would freak them out, but because I started in Chicago putting myself on tape for things, I had learned how to grow from a tape instead of freak out from a tape. And so what would happen is we'd go, we'd shoot the scene maybe once or twice, and then we'd go back and we look at it at the monitor. And so often, like, leaning on your left foot, you realize, oh, now they see both my eyes. or just moving the tiniest bit, depending on what lens you're on and the way it's lit,

you can be feeling something all day long, but the camera might not be catching it. If you know you're feeling it and then you see that they're not catching it, you can make the tiniest adjustments so that they're getting all of what you have to offer. And so it was a nice experience to also be included in that and be able to make those little adjustments to be able to give as much as possible. Sure. So that was definitely, I felt like a really just special, and I'm very close to everyone from that. As I said, Anthony, who wrote it, and I'm still close to Gavin.

I'm still close to Joe. Like, it's just, we all stayed very close from that film. I have such affection for what Joel. And Joel was another multi-hyphenate who's, like, writing and directing now. He's got a big film he just directed that for Jason Blum that I think is going to be really good. Do you want something crazy? This is a tangent, but, you know, so it's about a stalker from my college. So they sent me, do you heard about this, like, the viral marketing they did for this?

No. So usually you get really crappy kind of, like, swag for a movie. movie, like it's like a shirt or whatever. I got a box in the mail with this mug in it that is my college newspapers name. So it's basically, it's the herald. I was the editor of the college newspaper. And it basically has a note that's from Gordo, like, hey, I haven't seen you in a while, found this at a flea market thinking of you. I went home to my wife and I'm like, there's somebody stalking me. I don't know what this is. Oh my God, because it's weirdo. So it's so they. Oh, the movie's not called that anymore. It's called the gift.

It's called weirdo. Is that right? Yeah. So yeah. I think they should continue probably That is a good name. They searched through your social media history and found that I was... That is amazing. Kind of kudos to them. You probably freaked out. You're like, what's going on? I love that.

No, that's a horrible tangent. But he's amazing. No, that's genius. Yeah, he's lovely. So anyway, that was a really, like, you know, profoundly life-changing experience. And then working on how I met your mother was profoundly different in a different way, which is that I just loved the energy of that set. A Pam Freiman directed, you know, 99% of the episodes.

And she just was someone that she definitely impacted the way I wanted to direct in terms of the energy I wanted to keep on a set. Yeah. She is so kind and so caring and lovely and at the same time completely in control and ridiculously talented as the most outstanding taste. She's just this incredible combination of strength, control, and kindness. And so often when you hear about strong women, the next word you hear is bitch. And it sucks. And, you know, she's to me someone who really redefined the idea of a strong woman and a woman in power and that you can really do that and be kind.

And I was just so impressed with that. And it made going to work every day just absolutely so much fun. And plus it was a comedy where my job was to go to work every day and make people laugh and laugh and smile. And it's so rare that somehow. you know, I feel like I play these roles where I have, like, the way to the world on my shoulders all the time. So to be able to go to work and be like, my biggest concern today is like, am I going to hug Josh Radnor? You know, like, it's just sort of really fun, you know.

Like, I'm going to hit the punchline in the right way. Okay. Like, I'm going to make a little pouty face because he's going to say something sad. And then I'm going to smile and like twist my hair. So it was, there was something so liberating and fun about being on a show that was. was a comedy and was so much fun. And I was a fan of. So, like, the first time I sat at the booth with them, I was like, guys, I'm at the booth.

And they're like, what? What booth? And they're like, what are you talking about? It's like, you don't understand that the booth? Like, the booth you sit at is a big deal. They're like, oh, really? And I was like, yes. I mean, you've had the rare opportunity to be a part of some really, you know, frankly,

in recent times iconic TV shows that have really resonated with fans in a profound way. I mean, House we know was like the most successful show, like in some... In the Guinness Book of World Records. Right? Something crazy like that. It's true. David Shore is living on an island with seven islands around him. Probably could be, but instead he's like show running for other shows. If he wasn't doing that.

But it's interesting because, and then I see how I met your mother and of course once. But the fandom, I'm curious like your perspective on the fandom of once, for instance, versus House, which House, as we said, like most successful show at the time in that run. But there's something different about. about a show like once where there is shipping and there is fanfic and there is... Well, I mean, House was pre-Twitter. So that immediately changes things. Who knows what would have happened if it was during social media, the way social media exists today. I'm sure there would have been all sorts of ships.

Took me the longest time to figure out. I was like, what is a ship? The first season I'd once, I was like, what if people, a bunch of people have boats? So it took me a while. I was slow. I was slow to the ship, but now I'm on it. But it is a weird thing because, you know, you want to be true to your character, and you also want to serve the vision that the showrunners have. And you want the showrunners to be true to their vision.

You know, Eddie and Adam have worked so long at the highest levels in order to be in a position where they can create a. a show like this and put it into the world. And they deserve to put their vision in the world. They've more than earned that. And what they write is beautiful and creative and surprising and innovative. So they have all these great things going on. And 10 years ago, if they were doing that, they would have no idea if anyone cared who was with who or where people wanted the storyline to go.

But now people have this medium where they can have a very loud, voice. And, you know, the artists are sensitive. That's our job is to be sensitive. So it's this weird situation where you've got all these highly sensitive, highly creative people trying so hard to ignore the fact that a lot of people are saying terrible things to them. Again, at any second access it. It's in your hand. You're carrying like potential death in your Potential validation or hatred. Yeah, exactly. It's all in one device.

It's really, really, you know, precarious. So, you know, I think we're all learning. This is the beginning of social media mixed with TV, film, art, all those things. And so we're learning. We're like pioneering how to deal with that. How did to know how much of it should impact storytelling and how much of it should be ignored. And, you know, ultimately, I do feel like. it's good that people are super passionate. That's what you want. You want people to be

passionate. And people do need different outlets to be able to blow off steam or say what they need to say and whatever. It's just, we as artists, I think, have to learn how to not take it personally and not look too closely at it because we do need to show up and do our job. And we do need to be true to the character. And we do need to tell the story that we intended to tell and not worry about, you know, what everybody else is saying. But I do think it's good that they're passionate. You know, I think it would be a lot worse. Yeah, exactly. If people were not saying anything or didn't care, you know, apathy is much worse than hatred, you know. So I also love that, you know, people get so angry and they say all these terrible things, but they keep watching the show.

So I'm like, I mean, how angry are you really? You're still watching it. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's a tough thing. I was, I just did this fan. convention in Vancouver, and I don't know if you saw this at all, but I got asked a very similar question, and I said, you know, I was trying to really figure it out, and I was having a really conflicted moment about social media, and I went to a baseball game, and I was sitting in front of these guys that were screaming. I mean, just absolutely screaming at the other team, you know, how bad of a pitcher he was and how bad of this and that and, like, saying horrible things about the guy's mothers and, you know, all these crazy, crazy things. And I immediately start

to, like, sweat, and I'm like, people have to work so. hard to be in major league baseball. Like, you understand the hours they put in just because they're not on our team. You know, I start to like, all of the hours and the work and the passion starts to like, and then I was like, oh my God, this is Twitter. Yeah. Like this is the same thing. These guys, maybe they are frustrated at work or who knows what they're frustrated with.

They need to get it out at the baseball game. They need to hate the other team. For whatever reason, it's become a place where it's safe to do that. Just like now it's safe to do that on your. You know, they're shouting it into a stadium. and it doesn't get recorded forever. You know, the difference is when people are doing that on Twitter, you sort of can keep going back and seeing it over and over again.

But I do, I think we have to kind of look at it as a sporting arena, you know, where people are going to choose teams and sides. They're going to want to root for things. They're going to want to root against things. And we kind of have to go like, okay, like, let's just step away. Let everybody have their team. Let everybody have their thing that they want to root for and just keep doing our job. Is there anything that I,

I should take back to my brother for notes on how that he, not any story-wise. Oh, okay, I was going to say, I don't have any story notes. Just in terms of how, is he a good boss to work for? You can say something negative. I don't, yeah. I don't want the great. I know you don't. Yeah, I mean, listen, I wish I could give you the negative.

But unfortunately, yeah, the one thing we all wish on the show is that Adam and Eddie were able to be in Vancouver all the time. That's the hardest thing for all of us because it is a group of really passionate. actors and everybody really cares and everybody wants to do a great job and everybody ultimately wants to make Adam and Eddie happy. So the hard thing is when you've got 2,000 miles between you and the bosses and you're guessing half the time. Obviously, we've gotten to know them well and we can guess better now. But when Adam came up with Eddie to direct an episode, it was just heavenly because we had answers right away. We knew we didn't have to wonder. It was like, oh my God, I know for sure

that we're serving the vision. The creator has come. But it really felt that way. I was just like, oh, such a relief. I can ask you directly. Yeah. And even just like what happens is you kind of do several different takes and you try to do variations hoping that something in there hits what they're wanting.

But when they're there and you know you're hitting what they want, then you can keep growing on that. So you feel like you can actually give more because you know you're already pointing in the right direction and you can keep like building on that. Whereas like, you're like, okay, well, I'll do this, and then I'll turn sideways, and I'll do that, and I'll try that. And then hopefully one of those things is what they want, you know? So I would say, yeah, and I know that that's not, it's just not realistic with the families and the writer's room and all that stuff. But the dream would be to have, you know, Eddie and Adam up there with us.

This is going out on Monday, so warning label says now screened. It had an amazing reception. Oh, okay. Thank you. Where are people going to be able to see? What are new shorts like this end up? Yeah, I mean, what's interesting is like I didn't kind of think this was going to go anywhere. I made a short film thinking like I was going to see it and ten friends were going to see it.

I was thrilled that it got into Tribeca. It's now, it's going to have its West Coast premiere at the Palm Springs Film Festival in June. It's also gotten into three or four others that I don't even want to name because I feel like I've been trying to take it one day at a time and I haven't gotten through Tribeca yet. Sure. So it will be at several festivals that people can get tickets to go see. We're also in negotiations for domestic and international distribution, actually. There are a couple companies out there, and because we're negotiating, I can't really say who, but there are a couple companies out there that sort of pair different shorts together with a few other things that make sense thematically and then do like small theatrical releases,

and then that turns into things like iTunes and Netflix and all that. So we are right now negotiating to be a part of a female protagonist, driven, themed grouping of short films. So hopefully there will be like a small art house release at some point and then it'll be available on all of the online streaming sources.

There you go. Well, if you can, I'm sure seeing it on the big screen is going to, for you and for an audience is going to be really special. Oh, that's going to be a moment. I've been watching it on my TV. I've seen it probably 100,000 times

between editing and color timing and everything else. But, you know, it'll be really cool to also be with an audience and see what they respond to, what they laugh at, what they don't laugh at, you know, I just, I'll be interested to see. It'll be cool. It's going to be great. Heartfelt congratulations to you. I'm really, I'm really happy for you. And honestly, it's been, it's been great talking to you over the years and you were so sweet to help me out recently. And I'm happy to, you know, continue the conversation. Any time. Thanks, dude. Thanks, dude. Thanks,

Tracy Flick. Oh, my gosh. She's buried on the beaches of Loyola, Chicago. She's buried there. She'd be a gravestone. Thanks, John. Thanks, Steve. Thank you.

That's awesome. That's the show, guys. I'm Josh Harrowitz. This has been happy, say I confused. Hope you've enjoyed the show. Hit me up on Twitter. Joshua Harowitz. Go over to Wolfpop.com.

Check out all the amazing shows over there. And most importantly, check back in next week for another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Pop. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bugonia.

Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar Wright's The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.