Happy Sad Confused - Jeremy Renner

Episode Date: September 29, 2014

In just a few short years Jeremy Renner has gone from journeyman actor to one of the most sought after talents working today. And now he's producing his first film, the thriller, "Kill the Messenger". Josh talks to Renner about how Tom Cruise hilariously roped him into the "Mission: Impossible" franchise, what he learned from Colin Farrell and what extreme creepy lengths he went to research his role in "Dahmer". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Set Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. Thanks as always for checking out this week's podcast, which is one of the finest actors working today, Mr. Jeremy Renner. I am sitting here in my apartment. Hunks are real. I have not added those in post in New York as the New York Film Festival has just gotten on their way. I got a chance to see Gone Girl last night, which if you're a film fan, you're a film fan, you are very much looking forward to because it's David Fincher and he is the best. And this film is so wickedly funny, dark, and absurd and riveting. I had not read the book. So I just want to give you kind of a sneak peek at Gone Girl before we get into Jeremy Renner today because everybody's going to be talking about this movie. They already are. And it was such a blast to see it. I'm actually going off to talk to the cast today. And hopefully at a later date,

I'm hoping to get some of those folks, one of those folks. We'll see. for the podcast so stay tuned for that but today's podcast enough about gone girl we can talk about that another time today's podcast is with jeremy renner who uh really came kind of out of nowhere four or five years ago with the hurt locker he's had an interesting career i mean we talk about this a bit in the interview today where he was a working actor you know he didn't really become famous or well known until his mid 30s uh thanks to a very unlikely film in the hurt locker which obviously directed by Catherine Bigelow went on to win Best Picture, but when it started was a really small movie with no movie stars

and has catapulted him into just being Mr. Franchise. He's in The New Mission Impossible. After he was in the last one, he's obviously in Avengers. Hansel and Gretel was getting a sequel, The Born Movies, so he's got a lot going on, including the film that we talk about a lot today, which is Kill the Messenger, which I would definitely recommend. This is Jeremy's first producing Venture. It is based on a true story.

It comes out October 10th, and it's a really powerful story. It's about a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist named Gary Webb, who, if you don't know anything about him, just Google him, go to the Wikipedia page, and you'll be fascinated by his background. He basically wrote this expose, a series of stories about how the U.S. seemed to be actually smuggling cocaine into the U.S., taking the profits to fuel the rebels over Nicaragua. So it's a complex, really fascinating tale. Jeremy plays Gary in the film, and he's great in it. And it was a great pleasure to chat with him in this extended conversation. I hope you guys enjoyed. As I always, hit me up on Twitter, Joshua Horowitz.

And review and rate the show, guys. Spread the word of happy, sad, confused. Some amazing guests coming up, including today's. Please enjoy Mr. Jeremy Renner. Who got you into Twitter and Instagram recently? This feels like not a Jeremy Renner thing to do. It isn't. It isn't. It's the opposite of who I am.

A very private guy. But I don't know who ended up getting me into it. I don't. But I said, I'm going to take it as an exercise in life to make an ass of myself and be ridiculous. There you go. So far, you know, I don't know. I've been doing it a week. I don't know.

Everybody needs an outlet for the sublime and bizarre part with their personality. I need to do that in the world stage. I have no idea. We need to see all facets of you, Jeremy. I guess that's part of the idea of being ridiculous and being a little bit more revealing of myself. Does that kind of counter, though, like everything that, you know, we've talked to many actors over the years and people like, you know, going back to Nero and going all the way up to people like Leonardo, where it's like they really compartmentalize because they don't want, I mean, it's for a real motive.

It's not just about keeping your private private. So you don't want people to bring baggage about... Absolutely, about anything to a character. It's already hard enough to hide in a character anyway. If you're known, and then if you have baggage of any sort, then good luck. It's impossible to be able to ask audience members to take going a journey with this character or this actor.

So that's another reason you have to be selective and compartmentalize your life. I feel like that was part of the beauty, frankly, of when, you know, obviously you've been a working actor for some time but when you kind of like went to this whatever whatever we want to call this next level about five years ago after a hurt locker and it was like for a lot of people it was like where the where the hell this guy come from yeah right it was like a new guy in town after 20 years exactly it's great i loved it that must have been insane to have that like

i mean did you have kind of two minds of it like that's great that you're appreciating me but also like guys i've been actually doing this for a while where the hell were you 10 years ago no it's just great thanks for appreciating me yeah i could take that with me to bed the other side of that but it doesn't you know it doesn't matter yeah yeah it's fantastic to get recognized by your peers you know people you respect totally so okay so let's talk about this one because as i said um killed the messenger this is it's a fascinating true story um that i frankly knew what all about i mean everybody's going to know aspects of this story i mean the first imagery of the film i mean touches the court i think with anybody that lived through it the war on drugs this is your

brain on drugs um that imagery was you know i think you know we're relatively the same age so I know like that made an impact on me as a kid. Sure. Give me a sense of sort of your access points of this material. We're pretty much those. I mean, it was the script that came along my way that reminded me of the war on drugs and that sort of thing. But the more I researched, I realized, I mean, the less I really did know.

And this happened, you know, 70 miles from where I grew up. And my only sort of real experience with what Gary uncovered or even what happens in this story is, is the PSA audition in Los Angeles for this is your brain on drugs. And I remember sitting in a chair like this and there's quite an empty room and you're supposed to just tear it apart and freak out like you're on drugs. I don't know. This is like your brain on drugs. This is like 93 or something. I feel like it's like 93. And I didn't get the audition.

I didn't get the job, but I tore the room apart. There you go. Literally tore it apart? You literally like... Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's why I didn't get the job. They're like, not only did you not get it, you owe us $3,000. Exactly.

It's probably pretty much the case, yeah. Were you a good auditioner? Do you feel like, are you comfortable in that space? I don't know if I was always a good auditioner. I did end up getting good. I didn't like the process ever, even when I was good at it. No, it's an awful way to, I think, ever cast anybody auditioning. I heard someone talking about this the other day on the flip side, because that's usually

what I hear from actors, and I could imagine. I mean, I don't thankfully have ever had to do that sort of thing. But, like, I heard someone say, like, on the flip side, think of it as an opportunity to act, because, frankly, a lot of actors don't have much of an opportunity. You need somebody to pay for the cameras and pay for the production, et cetera, and just use it as an opportunity. But the problem, it's a great outlook on it. But the problem I always say to that is, like, it takes two to do something.

Well, otherwise you're acting alone or you're monologizing or something. But, you know, it kind of takes two to keep something alive. Yeah. So unless you have, you know, a great reader in there, it's like, what's the point? What are we doing? So going back to this one, this obviously is not something you auditioned for. This is something that you helped generate. So did you come on initially as a producer that was going to develop this for yourself,

or was it all fully formed already? I was in the middle of shooting the Avengers, the first one. And I was halfway through reading and Mike, which was really, great. It was my producing partner, Reddit. And he said, dude, you'd be really great. And this thing, I'm like, I don't know why it should be on the big screen. So just keep reading, keep reading, finish the thing. So we finished it. And I'm like, okay, well, yeah, I need to do this. I have to do it now. I see why, and it's important. And it means a lot. And like, and the more I researched, the more I got hooked into it. And so it became out of more necessity I had

to do the thing. But it's also something that I knew he was going to generate a lot of headwind and no one's throwing money at this to make it. It's not in the studio's vision anymore to make these types of movies, sadly. So I just knew that we had to kind of carry it on our backs and push it up the hill to get anything going. And we ended up getting a great director and great cast and got it made fairly quickly. It is something of a throwback. I mean, it's the kind of thing that like, I feel like back in the day was like, you know, Alan Pekul would have done it with like Warren Beatty. Like it would have been like a late 70s kind of like political throw. Yeah, Zanz's A Perilocks View and all the president's men, all these sorts of things

and throwbacks to the movies that I really love. And I think it has that kind of vibe to it, which I think is great. And you brought along with so that you obviously worked with the director before. Was that your idea to bring them back into the fold for this? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we kicked around a couple ideas initially for the, for the movie. And just like in casting, things just kind of don't work or aren't fitting quite right. And as soon as like Michael popped into my brain and he just came off of homeland, it's like, oh, the energy of that show would be so great. And with Kill the Messenger, I think that's a really good match.

And then him and I working together has always been really terrific. Yeah. This is our third or fourth time going at it. And yeah, so it worked out great. But he had a lot of passion for the project so that he meant so much to me. So we had to do it. It's also interesting. I mean, it's not necessarily the time where we see a lot of stories of, like,

journalists as crusading heroes. This is not necessarily the invoked thing. Is that part of the challenge of getting, does it feel like something like, oh God, this is a great story, but is this the right time? Are people going to actually like want to fund this and see this as a viable commercial opportunity? Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's, there's a lot, it makes it, it's very timely and relevant sort of piece of material at this point where we're at right now. However, my focus was on, on Gary Webb as a human and as a man, as a husband, as a father, and then as a journalist, and then the story. I had to focus on him as the individual,

because that's who audiences will connect with. And I let Michael focus on the story and the uncovering of what the story was. I wanted to take a little onus off of a story that's really still never fully been told. So how are we going to tell it in an hour and a half? It's not going to happen. So we didn't want to go down too much Dark Alliance Road,

which is the story that, you know, the series of articles that he wrote. So we kind of, just enough so people understand what the heck he wrote, so then we understand how people spun it and use it against him. And obviously led him to down some bad, bad, bad road. Yeah, it's also interesting because it's like you kind of alluded to this before. I mean, it almost sometimes becomes a negative when you're talking about a story to call it like, this is an important story to tell.

You know what I mean? Right. Because frankly, sometimes that can lead to a dry, kind of inert way of storytelling. And that's not what you guys did here. You guys were able to make it a propulsive thriller that would have worked even if it was fiction. But is that something? Is that a challenge? And again, is that something that's on Michael's shoulders and on the screenplay shoulders for you?

It's challenging anytime you're doing anything that's based on a true story and you're playing a real person or some of that did exist. There's accountability and responsibility of that for the legacy that he left behind for his family, for a lot of things. And then there's also, you know, you don't want to, we are pointing the finger at a lot of people, but not at any one person or any one entity. It's not sort of anti-government. It's not anti-newspaper or beer. It's, it's, everybody had a part in it. Yeah.

And everyone's accountable and responsible for their part in it. Some people have stepped up to it for an apology and realizing that he was right. And we also, it's just as important for me and us as the filmmakers to show that he was flawed. Yeah. That even though he was right, essentially, he was still flawed in his personal flaws and then also in his writing. If you reread the articles and there's some hyperbole, which leads to misinterpretation and other things. But what he said was right, period. Yeah, bottom one.

That's the most important part. Bottom line is the bottom line. However, you know, people can run with whatever they run with them. We've honored both sides, just like an investigative reporter should do. It's non-biased and allow the reader to come up with their own opinion. You do that with the same with the movie, allow the audience member to come up with their own opinions. Were you raised to kind of question authority yourself? I just had a week or two ago on the podcast, I had Terry Gilliam, who, like, you know,

was famous for being, like, you know, Brazil was so anti-government. His new one is kind of anti-corporation. I feel like this, I mean, you know, we're all raised in a different kind of atmosphere. Was, like, did your parents kind of, like, generally raise you, think, to question the status quo? I don't know if it was my parents that did that. They taught me a lot, but I think my observations in school and studies and psychology and philosophy is sort of, that's when I started questioning a lot of things. Was there a turning point that you can point to where you remember like, okay, maybe what they're teaching me isn't necessarily what I should take at face value? When it started, maybe when I was 17, 18, like when I started, like when I started college.

it's like this is why why am I doing this why do I have to do this and I sort of went from sheep to shepherd I think somewhere around there and I'm like you know this doesn't make way why am I doing this right sort of really questioning things so this is the first one that you've produced correct the first film yes so I mean it says something I would think you know you've you've especially in the last four or five years you've amassed some collateral you have some chips that you can put on the table right as an actor that's being in some of these very high profile projects I think it says a lot about your priorities and the kind of career you're trying to craft

that this is the one to start off. Hang on. Sorry, sorry, this is important. It might be my baby. That's a priority, I would think. Yeah, it is. No, it's Twitter. It's Instagram. No, it's not. No, it's not.

No, it's not. I don't do that. But no, but you're right, though, yeah. It is a huge reflection on what represents me as an actor and also what represents the company that we've put together. The types of movie that we want to make and the types of actor that I am and how those collide. And doing the big movies afford me the time and the energy to be able to hopefully get more of these made. Yeah. I'm curious because, you know, like many, like the first time I think I ever interviewed you was at the Toronto Film Festival when Herlacher first premiered,

which was, I think, over a full year before it went on its crazy Oscar run. It was a long journey for you guys. Like, with your perspective on the whole thing, like, do you think your, are you that much of a better actor now today than you were 12, 15 years ago when you weren't getting the parts you wanted or is it just about opportunity? Opportunities, yeah? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Opportunities, 100%. And so then do you empathize, you must empathize with like people that you came up with that are still struggling and for whatever reason it hasn't, the chips haven't fallen where they wanted them to? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I do. Absolutely. So how does that inform sort of how you carry yourself?

Do you feel sort of like, again, I had a similar kind of conversation with Michael Fastbender recently where he's like, you know, I got to work my ass off now because this is the time I was always hoping to get, the opportunities I was always hoping to get, and I'm not going to let me be the person that waste, that squanders this opportunity. Do you feel like you had that kind of similar kind of outlook where like this is what I always worked for, and by the way, I'm pretty damn lucky to be here? Yeah, I just felt like I got, you know, step up to the play. My number was called and stepped up to the plate to swing for the fence and you do that

at every audition in 92, 93, 94 and then up to whatever it may be. Everything I do is at 100% and you get an opportunity and all of a sudden, you know, you got thrown a 76 mile an hour lob and knock it out, you know, whatever it might be. So it's got to be ready for opportunities, you know, and I've been very blessed with them and I haven't looked back. How do you look back at that first decade of a lot of work, but a lot of, you know, probably waiting around too for opportunity in L.A.

It's frustrating. It was very frustrating. But I was doing something that I love to do. And I know that I think most people in life don't like what they do for a living. Right. That's why it's called a job. And vacation's a vacation. Well, my job is vacation.

It's when I don't work. It's when it's the job. Yeah. You know, because I'm unemployed and I'm not working. So I feel very blessed to have something that I'm going to do for the rest of my life. Is it true that to make ends meet at some points you were working as a makeup artist too? I was a makeup artist, yeah. There was a trade that I learned from really essentially doing stage work in San Francisco and Minnesota, California,

and took the skill set and moved it on down to L.A. instead of waiting tables and bartending. A better option. Closer at least to the work. Huh? Closer at least to the work a little bit. Yeah, I guess. But I had to work less and I had better hours.

I just worked two days in the weekend and paid for my whole week. Yeah. Well, I mean, what were you hoping for them? Like, was the goal then to get on it like a series, to get a film? Like, was it anything that specific? Oh, at that time? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

When I first moved to LA, I was very, very focused on what I wanted. I wanted to be in a movie, in a movie that was large enough to play in my small hometown in Desto. And a part that you didn't have to tell you what. That was the guy in the red shirt at the end waving, you know, pulling his pants down. Right. But, you know, it was a large enough role. And I got in my very first job, I got all those goals accomplished. I'm like, oh, man, not that it was easy, but like, okay, no, now it's time to just recalibrate.

And then it went to something else. Now I want to make a living, and so I don't have to do anything else in life and just earn a living. And if I can raise a family on it, now I know I've really made it. So do you continue to set goals? I constantly do it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm constantly setting goals and I feel like I know I've made it when and I feel comfortable doing this now and it's always ever changing.

So what's the goal now? You've got like literally three or four franchises and you're producing your own material. I would think it's tough to like two nominations. Yeah. So what's on the goal to do this right now? Well, ultimately it's constantly to be challenged and learn and grow. I'd love to direct something. I'd love to get back to the stage.

I would want to continue producing. There's still a handful of movies. handful of movies I still want to be in and yeah I don't know man it's there's a there's a lot of road to go I feel like do you get competitive about it when like I'm sure you're up for great roles among your peers if you if you do miss out on a job do you do you punch the wall do you get angry about it no more more philosophical about it no I I don't remember the last time I got angry about a job and again I I I only get I only get I only get angry, yeah, I only get angry when I don't see my daughter. That's the only time I get

angry. That's a healthier outlet, I would think. So what was the first film that landed in Modesto then? It's called National Lampoon Senior Trip. That's on the AFI top 100 list, I think, of all time. I don't know. Quite sure where it is. That's fine. But it was my first job. Were you excited at the time? Yes, man. I would never want to shit on a movie that was such a great thing and a great milestone for me is my very first job ever as an actor. And it being a lead in a national ampum movies, so right on, man. I think that's better than most people's first time out of the gate. No, totally, totally.

I want to hit on a couple other films in the filmography, if you'll indulge me. One of them, what I think is underappreciated was 28 weeks later. Oh, yeah. Which, a great filmmaker, Juan Carlos. Yeah, I love Juan Carlos. I think he just lived in the shadow of obviously what Danny Boyle did on the first one, which was remarkable in its own right. But what do you recall of that one?

And does that feel like, okay, this is, I'm working with like a special kind of filmmaker this time around? Yeah, yeah. That was, it was difficult shooting that one because there was so much action written and he really wanted to try to find humanity is the complete opposite of the first 28 days later where it was all humanity and character.

And then because it's such a low budget, it had a few action sequences. Well, this one is a complete opposite. So we had very little time to create humanity, and friendships, Harold Pernaud's character in mine, and so you cared about the people that were about to be eaten, essentially.

So that's where his focus was, and he was really great at it and really skilled at it. So I thought he was very successful with that. Yeah. What was your first exposure to, quote-unquote, you know, a Hollywood filmmaking. Like, I mean, I would think,

National Lampo probably had its own decent budget for a film of that type. but I mean I guess SWAT was probably one yeah yeah that was my first sort of studio and was that sort of an eye-opener in terms of just any aspect of how it was run and what I mean I just came off at Dahmer and was just like a $200,000 a movie shot in 14 days and we're done and I think to shoot SWAT just one day cost a quarter million dollars and it's like oh this is a very different sort of filmmaking process right it was it was great He was eye-opening and learned a lot.

Cool ensemble of actors. Cool ensemble of actors, yes, still friends with them all. It's pretty fantastic. Do you learn much from seeing, like, in those days when you're seeing quote-unquote superstars, A-list actors, whatever you want to categorize them at the time. Like, I know, obviously you worked with Charlize

and North Country, and then she's, you know, a gas and a half, obviously, to be around. I know you're friendly with her. To see the way they carry themselves on a set and the way that they kind of like dictate sort of how the environment of a set. Yeah, I mean, I guess I learned a lot from, you know, guys like Colin Farrell that was coming up around that time during SWAT and then Charlize. A lot of things happening for her and to learn what to do and not to do, in my own opinion, in my observations of them as my friends, on and offset, as professionals.

I learned wonderful things from Colin, how he treated everybody the same with great respect, no matter if you're the president or a homeless guy on the street. I don't know if that was because he's drunk the entire time. That was a different Girt of his life. Different Colin Farrell today. But Colin now, you know, he's come around. He's manifested a lengthy chunk of material and career now, which for a lot of people, it would have disappeared. Yeah, and apparently doing True Detective next season. Yeah, which is very cool.

Yeah. Justin Lynn, he's going to be doing that. It's very exciting. So what are the things not to do then that you've learned from watching others? That, like, you know, yeah, late again, you know, going down that road and like, you know. Gotcha. What do you remember about Miami Vice? I remember it was a rap.

It was a hell of a rap party. It was a hell of a rap party. Like, what, really? What not to do? Yes. But, you know, it's, everyone has their own plight, but I never was in danger of ever going down that kind of road. Yeah. Teach their own.

The last few years, obviously, I alluded to this before, you've got a, you've had the privileged position of being in films I Kill the Messenger, but also these crazy, ginormous franchises, which have great filmmakers attached to them too. Was there a concern when you kind of started, you know, getting involved in Bourne and Mission and Avengers? Like, is there franchise fatigue? Should I only do one or two of these? Well, yeah, I mean, yes, there was, to be honest, I signed on to Avengers first, but there's a critical order that happened there. it happened very fast and so I was signed on for the Avengers for a good year before we were going to shoot this thing and I was still trying to get a couple independent movies made yeah so I'm like okay cool I'm gonna go play Hawkeye I'm like this this cool

character that's gonna be very exciting yeah and then these movies just weren't happening weren't happening and all of a sudden I go to meet a J.J. Abrams for Super 8 is that what was I remember that sounds right yeah yeah and I love J.J. Abrams and smart smart guy and was really excited to go meet and talk with him about this movie so I met and talked with them and I read the script there and was bodyguards watching over me and those stuff and gave him the script and I had it I had to figure out a way to tell him that there wasn't enough there for me I don't think I'm the right guy for this part whatever this was like the dad roll right the car

yeah the dad roll I'm like ah this is not quite right for me and before I could even sit down and tell him that it wasn't gonna I couldn't do his movie he was like what do you think of Mission of Possible like what do you mean He's like, I want to hear everything you want to think about my movie. I want you to be in my movie. But what do you think of Mission Impossible? I'm like, why? It's a great movie.

I like it. Tom's great. That's your question? What's going on here? Do you want to go meet Tom right now? I'm like, okay, yeah, let's go meet him. And so he's over in Paramount. I'm in Santa Monica, so it's quite a distance to travel.

So I drive over there and meet him and sat down with Tom and literally talk with him for them for 10 minutes and saying, you've got to do this movie. There's no script, but you've got to do this movie. I'm like, why? And it was a strange experience and interesting meeting. and I leave that and they're all like so we're doing it

I'm like I don't know I'm not the strangest day of my life I'm not really sure I see you later and the time I get home I'm a motorcycle get up my helmet and bone rings

it's Tom calling me at the house I'm like it's weird Tom Cruise call me at home it's so weird hey Tom how are you so we do this right or do it come on we do this I'm like yes we're doing it

we gotta do okay I'll do it will you stop calling me if I say yes so then all of a sudden now I'm signed on to do three Mission Impossible movies with Tom and I'm like okay that was all within I went in for Super 8 two hours ago and then now I'm doing three movies and mission okay great and that's what I'm going

to shoot first this before Avengers even is happening but then Hansstone Gretel comes around right after that a week later said they they found a Gretel and a thing and that happened like so we got to squeeze that in in between that and the Avengers now I did mission and now in the middle of shooting Hanson Gretel they call and say born you're looking to do another born. I'm like, well, yeah, that's awesome. But now, the timing is real shit, man. I'm tired. Could you all calm down for a one second? I still have to do the Avengers. And like, then I want me to do what? I'm like, no, man, it's not fair? Why are you to come to me first? Why

you come to me first with that? So now I'd like, tell them, ultimately, like, I need some time to think. Yeah. And I, so I told them no. I was like, just give me some, a moment to like, I feel like consider like my life here for a second because, you know, it's hard to think about what you're doing tomorrow, let alone in six years. When you have an Avengers conversation, you're talking about signing up for like seven movies. This is just how they do things.

And I'm like, hold on, seven, seven. What am I 55 in tights, for God's sakes? I haven't even seen a costume yet. I can't think about those things, man. And I don't want to think of what I look like in those things. It's going to be, I don't know, orange and a tube sock. That's not a good look, man. It's terrible.

So you don't think about those things. You think about, oh, yeah, of course. I love to be a hawk. Of course I want to do BORN, but like, hold on. They want to still continue those things. And you have to be able to perform in those things. And I might have been a little greedy. I was like, oh, that's why I said, like, hold on.

The obvious answer is like, F yes, I need to do this. I want to do this. But let me be responsible and accountable to my own life. It's like, what am I really giving up here? Especially when it came to the Bourne part? Because Avengers, I knew I was going to be. an ensemble. Mission, I was in an ensemble.

But you'd be the guy. Hot song, I wasn't sure what that was going to be anyway. So this is the one who's like, this is the dude. Like this is going to be like, you're the face now. So I'm like, okay, I have to really like consider what my life is now because I've now signed

away, a good decade away. But it all sort of worked out. I calmed down and talked to everybody and they all said, you're an idiot, do it. Right. And I said, of course, I know. I just need to like vent here for a second, as I just did on you. And, yeah, so that's how it all kind of came about.

And they're all continuing. It's great. It's crazy. It all turned out great. And it affords me to go do smaller movies and a lot of other things in life. I would think also, I mean, part of that venting and that frustration is also, it must be frightening. Even with something like Hawkeye, you signed on for that without seeing a script. I mean, like a mission, too, it sounds like.

All these, I think, yeah, mission as well. and Hansen Gretel was the only one that there was a script. Yeah, it's a little terrifying, it's a way, but you just have to entrust. Yeah. And it worked out for me, got lucky. Do you learn something from the experience of Avengers? I know you got a lot of flack,

or at least a lot was made of, like, comments afterwards that maybe it wasn't the part, at least you were hoping for the first one around. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, exactly. That, what Joss and I, and even Fagi and I initially talked about, and then Joss and I have been friends for a very long time what we initially talked about with Downey and Ruffalo sort of where he wanted to go with the script.

Ultimately, like Joss, I think, was realizing that he's doing the impossible and having to write The Avengers. I mean, that is an impossibility. And he pulled it out, and the only way he could do it and have me in the movie with any sort of sizable part is to, you know, been the bad guy. Right.

And be a nut-hawkeye. Right. It's a tough introduction to the character. So it's not what we talked about and got me excited about doing the movie. But that's fine. I again trusted him and then we got to put it now in the second one. So you feel like you've now actually played the Hawkeye you wanted to play? Pretty much what we talked about for the first one is really what we're able to put into the second one.

And tenfold. It even has more weight and it's great because of it. Would you even want having had that conversation about all these franchises? Would you even want a solo Hawkeye film or are you happy to have him? have him in an ensemble I'm happy to be the ensemble I'm not scratching and clawing for to do a solo movie by any means I think he's a utility guy that can bounce around into other people's universes a little bit um especially a cap um three I've heard I've read I've read about this I'm not saying anything else yeah but there's whispers of that yeah um so who knows man would you are you rooting for uh Joaquin to do Dr. Strange how crazy you I I think

that would be pretty awesome. I mean, how amazing would that be? I think it would be pretty awesome. Have you talked to him about it? Because you've worked with him. I have, there's been whispers of that as well. I never know the answers, the outcomes of things. But I heard about the ideas, and those are also very exciting.

Yeah. When you're, you mentioned that crazy meeting with Cruz, and I kind of alluded to this when I talked to Simon Pegg, just from my side of things interviewing someone like Tom, he's crazy charismatic, which is, of course, the understatement of, like, the century. Of course, he would be. He's Tom Cruise. But he's also so hands-on as a producer. And I would think that's, again, we're talking about people to emulate

and to learn from watching, both of how they carry themselves on a set, how they treat others. He's got to be the gold standard, right? Yeah, it's actually very good. Absolutely. It was a huge thing from Exiles. That was my first movie in those series of franchises, right? Just before Avengers and all that.

And being around Tom, I learned a lot. And this is a guy who's been on top of his game for a very long time. And by, again, just by observing and watching him, what to do and things like what I couldn't do. But how he was so commanding on a set and inspiring other people to be the best they can be on a set. It was a really amazing thing because I really

ripped a lot of that off because no one really teaches you how to do that. And then when you're sort of number one on the call sheet and you generate the tone and pace for it. So when it came time for me to go do a Born Legacy, I mean, I was on it. And I set the tone and pace for how the day was going to go. and how the shoot is going to go.

And I didn't know that we had that or allowed that or could do that, but certainly can generate and motivate people to do it. I feel like people wait for the actor, like, oh, they're going to come out of the trailer, what they're doing? Right, are they going to look at me in the eye or not? Yeah, yeah, we just go out, we do it and work hard

and people just kind of follow, and like, it's great. What about on something where, again, you're literally the producer too and kill the messenger? Are you able to, because you were saying this before, like, I mean, you have a tough job to do. This is not like a hundred-day show. shoot, I'm sure, and this is a big acting challenge. And that's enough to have on your shoulders.

Do you leave the rest of it to others once you're on set? I kind of had to, yeah, again, surrounded myself with really great people. Naomi and my business partner, Don Hamfield, and Scott Stuber, and then we had Michael Questa. If you have a great team, then you can easily just rely on them so I can go focus and take the producer head off and just be in every scene in this movie, right? I did still go home and try to watch dailies if I could but ultimately I had to like you know I get to learn my lines

from the next day and then some other actor was like coming in I mean we had a tremendous pool of talent that came in every day to that makeup trailer and I kill the messenger that you know had to be ready because I know they were going to be ready

so it's important to get up and get ready for them every morning do you have something in mind that you want to direct you said you that's on the list if I did it would be something smaller something intimate I think I can I don't know what it would be but yeah I don't know it's so cool to see like again like all these even just looking at the Avengers cast like again to see sort of like everybody cashed on their chips in the right way I just spoke to Chris about his directing yeah you too and just

to see like it's obviously part of the algorithm part of the mindset and it should be like you you know you have to kind of like you know when you've got the juice use it for good sure yeah yeah yeah yeah I think so. So is, I know there's been a lot of talk as we tape this in the last couple of weeks about Bourne, obviously with your own one, but also Matt potentially coming back. What are you hearing on your end? Yeah, I hear all those things.

I think it's all great. I mean, that's doing both. It's awesome. Why not? Because ultimately, I think, where I'm sitting, I think Universal is like, ah, yes, the Marvel world. All of a sudden we got, you know, a really sort of, you know, high-brow version of, you know, kind of putting you know people together it's not you know godzilla versus mothra it's like you know

born versus aaron or are they together or are they against each other for each other i don't know what it is but it creates an environment for them that they can do something like that and um so i think born legacy did open up the world that that way for them so i think it's very exciting i love greengrass and damon and um i'd love to do something with him see it's funny i mean i and i'm all for that too just as a fan of seeing those kind of worlds collide and this massive world building I also worries the film fan I feel like every studio is trying to oh I'm sure right people just like like let it organically happen and this makes sense right I think what you guys were able to accomplish last time right and

Star Wars of course it makes sense but right not everything needs to have like spin-offs and backstories and prequels like that's you know the state of the business that we're in yeah and it's um it's tough that's why thank goodness for kill the messenger kill the messenger yeah yeah um are you a consuming you're obviously very busy do you watch a lot of TV not a lot no no having been been able to binge on these kind of short form things at least that's the that's the beauty at least is like you can if you can at least carve out five or ten hours you can at least get through a series when back in the day you'd like yeah right that's that's that's fun I was able

to do that with the house of cards actually that was great because I've never gotten to see any of these kind of shows yeah but it's nice to be able to do it work like as a kid were you were you like a film buff or did this come kind of Come later, too appreciate. I don't know. Buff. What was I watching as a kid? Rosemary's Baby and Jason and all the, what are they?

Your traumatized child. Yeah, I know, right? It's a lot. E.T. I think my very first movie ever was Reds. That's, I don't know if you remember Reds. That's not a kid's movie. I think I saw it when it was like nine or. That's a double cassette.

That's a double video cassette. Yeah, it was a long night, movies. Do you understand what the hell was happening? No, I know. I was throwing like juju bees at the screen and red hots and spitballs. I'm like, we're so bored. You're like, I could have watched three Freddie movies in the time I watched Warren Beatty and Diane Keaton Stopper Revolution. I think there was a sleepover or something at my buddy's house and then the parents wanted to go

out and whatever we got dragged along. Have you ever done, you've never done horror that I can think of off top of my head? No, I mean the closest thing would be I guess 20 weeks later or right. Right. Yeah, but those aren't horrible. to me so what was Dahmer the first time that you were the guy the lead yeah that it was what was that first day on set like when you were when you arrive in it's it's terrifying it's creepy I mean I well because you don't want you know what I did to prepare for that well now I do want to know yeah no man it's like was the videos you were watching or you actually doing things to people no I was

you having to walk around naked and the masturbate to cross sections of humans it was weird really had to do some weird things things to like go to the depths you know i was committed to my job you don't need to be that committed dude i didn't look i didn't go kill anybody i'm not like a method but i had to emotionally go to places that were um quite terrifying you know it's like to really to get into the idea of of that that guy's head you know it was a but yeah it was a quick two weeks of my life that just kind of snap by i'm like we just shot a movie oh wow does that approach change are you still do you still feel the need to like be as committed in that way to

to go to some way of places that you have to. It depends on the role. It depends on the material and a lot of things. But every role is just as challenging, just in different ways. Yeah. I hope this was a nice respite from the four-minute interviews of the junket world. Absolutely, well, it's a conversation.

This is nice, you know? It's a novel idea in promoting a film. It's actually conversely the human being and interact and hear the other person and say stuff back. Right, yeah. For me too, believe me. I don't understand what we're doing here. No, it's always good to see you, man.

And I'm really happy for you. This is a great, it's a great acting performance, but it's a great film, period. So you should be proud of it, man. Yeah, very, very, I'm very proud of it. I'm very proud that the family, that the Webb family is very proud. So it's all kind of downhill for me from there.

Yeah, it's got to be an emotional experience the first time. Yeah, yeah. I'll see them at the premiere as well, so I'll see how that goes. It's going to be pretty, pretty emotional, I think, for me. Good stuff, man. Back to work, back to Morocco or something for you. That's right. More lunges.

There you go. Good to see, man. Yeah, baby. Thanks, buddy. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo,

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