Happy Sad Confused - Jesse Eisenberg

Episode Date: May 19, 2014

Don’t invite Jesse Eisenberg on your show for a cookie cutter celebrity interview. The Oscar nominated star of “The Social Network” visits Josh to discuss “The Double,” Lex Luthor, Kristen Stewart, and how few Tom Cruise films he knows. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey, guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Said Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to my very own podcast. This week's episode is Jesse Eisenberg, Oscar-nominated actor, of course known for his work in Adventureland, The Social Network, and so many more films, including two we talk about this week. He's got The Double, which is a very funny black comedy, directed by Richard Iowad, and Night Moves by Kelly Reichert, a very compelling, suspenseful tale. co-starring Dakota Fanning and Peter Sarsgaard. Check both of those out. This week's interview is kind of a different one. I'll be honest. Jesse is, you know, to many interviewers out there,

I know he's kind of got the rep as a difficult interview. Not because he's a jerk or aggressive or rude in any way. He's just not a cookie cutter Hollywood type. He doesn't speak in sound bites, which makes him challenging in some ways and refreshing. in many more ways. This is a conversation that afterwards I was thinking, did it go well?

I'm not sure. It certainly felt different. And I've listened to it back, and I thought about it. I was like, should I edit this down a little bit? Should I cut out some of the awkward pauses, some of the awkward laughter, the tangents? And I decided to keep it all in

because frankly, this is the kind of conversation I would want to hear if I were you guys. I like to hear conversations that meander that feel. authentic and real. And Jesse, as I said, he's not a Hollywood type. He's not a guy that speaks in canned responses. So I think that's what makes us very engaging and interesting, hopefully, for you guys. I'm very happy that he scheduled some time to come into the office, the chat. He's certainly a unique guy. He, in addition to acting, he's a prolific writer for the New Yorker,

a playwright, and is going to be around for a long, long time. I'm doing a lot of great things, I know, including playing Lex Luthor in the next Batman Superman film, which we touch on in this interview. So I hope you guys enjoy this. This is not your run-of-the-mill celebrity interview, and I think that's a good thing. As always, hit me up on Twitter guys at Joshua Harowitz. Tell me what you think. Let me know who you want to hear on the podcast. Check out all my work on MTV.com, MTVNews.com.

And, of course, afterhours.mtv.m. Wow, there was a lot of dot-com plugs. In the meanwhile, enjoy this conversation. As I said, it's a special one. It's a unique one. You're not going to hear it anywhere else. Here is Mr. Jesse Eisenberg. Who is that picture of right there on the right?

This one? Yeah. Can you decipher who it is? It's actually a blend of two people. Yeah, no, I suspected that, but I can't even tell what one of them is. It's Mark Ruffalo. It is. Really?

You know him. I know him, but I don't recognize it. And that's Robert Dyn Jr. I see more of Ruffalo than Downey in there. I don't see either one of them. You know what it looks like to me? There's a playwright, Donald Margulies. Yeah.

Do you know him? I want to know my site, yeah. It looks like that. I don't know. Is he okay with that? Well, I've mentioned it. I'm sure he likes better. You don't have a wine to him right now.

He's not listening. It's uncanny almost. I'm not going to do an official introduction, because you're here already. It's happening already, Jesse. Do you normally talk about yourself on the podcast? Sometimes. Okay.

When people are inquisitive. So it's not out of line to talk about your high school? You can ask me anything you wish. Okay. Is there anything? I feel like you're reacting to everything around you. You have a weird things on the wall. Are they weird?

Are they okay? Well, like you have a works for me ad of like some kind of... Oh, it's Mark Wahlberg's nutritional supplements. Why is that an odd thing to have on the wall? Well, I guess. Why do you have it on the wall? I just makes me smile. I put things on the wall that make me happy.

Oh, really? and that makes me happy to see that he has he's always looking out from me oh okay yeah and what about that the laughing man coffee man oh that's just silly that's a that's a piece of Hugh Jackman coffee that he

bestowed upon me in a very sweet way oh I thought it was from the oh got it okay yeah yeah oh wow how have you been Jesse yes I've been good congratulations on your films I saw I saw both of them actually recently I saw you did I should say I saw the double back in Sundance rewatched it recently and night moves is a quality piece of work as well.

Oh, thanks a lot. You're stopping back home here for a little bit while you're... There's even a little shooting right now, aren't you? Yeah, I'm in New Orleans, but I have two days of the press here. Nice. I can go back. How's New Orleans? I remember...

Actually, I did visit you in New Orleans for... I think it was now you see me. Oh, that's where it was. Oh, yes, and we were in a... Oh, no, wait. Where were we? It was like mimicking Vegas. It was that big...

Yes, now I remember. Yeah, exactly. Yes, it was a Malican Arena. I think it was for, with the university, it was like a university arena. Yeah, yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, you were in full showman mode. Oh, that was fun, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you like New Orleans? Yeah, it's a great city, very unique place. Yeah. Do you? I do. I do. I mean, I enjoy a good food, and that is a good food town.

Yeah. I can't say I'm a jazz aficionado, but I appreciate it. Sure. There's a lot, talking about sensory input in this office. That's like a town that's, like, built on, like, feeding the senses. I feel like in every way. Right, exactly. But I would imagine it's different, like, I don't know,

when you're trying to get your work done. I don't know if it's maybe, I don't know, I've never had to work in New Orleans. I go there, you go to the movies. The movie I'm doing now with films outside of the city, so New Orleans, the city is not really relevant to the movie, so I'm living there, so it's kind of interesting to be there on the weekends, but it has no place in the movie, really. Gotcha.

Just nice tax breaks right now. Yeah, they film so much there. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the double, because I actually, I really, I don't know, I say actually, I did enjoy it. I surprisingly enjoyed their work, Jesse. Despite your presence twice over.

Yeah, exactly. No, actually, I thought it was hilarious. And I confess I've never read the Steyevsky source material because I'm not a learned man, let's be honest. Okay. No, but Richard Ayawad is the director. Talk to me a little bit about, was he your entry point into this? Was he the guy that kind of like came to you with this material?

Yeah, because they hadn't finished the script yet, so he gave me the novella which it's based on and his movie Submarine and both are really good. One was made by Dostoevsky, but the other was made by Richard, and they were both really unique, and I could kind of see what he might do with the double, because in the novella, it takes place in this kind of strange world, but there is a kind of like very relatable,

kind of ironic kind of loneliness that's in the movie too so even though the movie doesn't take place in Russia at the same time as Dostoevsky's novella it still feels like similarly bleak and funny

like the whole conceit of the movie is that this guy lives and works in this universe where no one remembers him and if they do remember him they kind of they don't really like him but no one kind of acknowledges him enough to even hate him if they don't like him. So he's really just an irrelevant person.

And then this other guy comes in who looks exactly like him, who dresses like him, sounds like him, is him. But for some reason, in this universe, everybody loves him. And it's so the kind of the clever concede is that, you know, it's your worst nightmare manifested. Right. That not only are you irrelevant, but there's somebody who is exactly you and is relevant,

which makes you feel even more irrelevant. So it's this kind of really existential bleakness. I would expect that you're probably shooting both parts sometimes on the same day. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you do it. We filmed it as though it was two actors playing the role, so you would do one character's angle and then the other character's angle in the same way.

You would do it if there were two actors. Yeah. So easy to kind of go back and forth? I mean, because they are 180s from each other, literally in personality. It couldn't be more different. Yeah, they're different personalities, but it was easy to go back and forth because they're really opposite sides of the same psyche. So the story is like, you know, this one guy is having kind of a psychological break, and so this, you know, he's having, so this other guy is like kind of the physical manifestation of everything he's missing in the kind of Jungian sense of the, you know, kind of shadow side of a person that it's all their kind of dark sides, you know,

everything they suppress is now manifested. So it's like it's, um, uh, even though it's two characters physically, they're really the opposite sides of the same person. So it was easy to go back and forth because I thought whatever one guy is really lacking, the other guy has an abundance of. So you can kind of play specifically off of each other rather than, you know, playing two characters who have no relation to each other. Total. Oh, sorry, just looking at your calendar. Do you want to see what's coming up? These are all the movie releases. Oh, I see recent, yeah.

Yeah, the edge of tomorrow. Yeah, that's the Tom Cruise one. You know, it's a cool title, but I also feel like... I kind of actually did, you know what it was originally called? It was called All You Need Is Kill. That, I think, is a cool title. That's an interesting title, too, because I was going to say, The Edge of Tomorrow, I felt like that's come out already.

It does. It feels like a little... Yeah. Like, the fake movie within a movie. Right, exactly. Yeah, that's actually a funny way. I actually saw it. It's really good, though. Oh, really? Tom Cruise is legit.

He, like, he, you know, he's a classic movie star, I feel like. In what way? I don't know. I feel like he, I don't know, I've always admired his work in that. Like, if you look at his early work, he, like, made some really smart choices and the kinds of filmmakers he was working with. Like, if you go back 20 years, he was working with, like, Sidney Pollock and Neil Jordan. Like, he wasn't, like, the kind of guy that was just, like, going for crappy blockbusters. He was actually working with quality filmmakers. I see.

And I feel like he still, like, can hold the screen, and you can somehow identify with him, even though he's, like, obviously six times gorgeous than every other even. right oh i see what you're saying that's an interesting way to put it right yeah he's relatable but somehow like super related like yeah yeah favorite tom cruise movie jesse i really haven't seen much really no but i know who he is and everything you can go with you can go the edge of tomorrow if you want yeah just assume that's your favorite i can go at the edge of tomorrow or tomorrow will be the edge tomorrow will be the edge sounds like a u2 song yeah exactly yeah that's funny i wonder who wrote that you two song yeah probably bonnet

yeah exactly right where were we oh so you shot this in London yes yeah but again like the New Orleans thing that we were just discussing

it has no relation to London the movie takes place in this kind of fictitious time in place it does feel like I mean I know some people it's like an easy reference point but like it reminded me in some ways of Brazil which I know people were mentioning

what are you guys talking about because it is a very stylized unique, familiar yet unfamiliar world that Richard has created here. Yeah, the kind of funny rubric they were using to create the technology was kind of what people in the 1950s thought the 1980s would look like. Right. So it's like really inefficient and oversized things that are kind of impressive if you're living in the 1950s.

You know, like a coffee machine that automatically makes coffee, but it's like the size of the room or a copying machine that's efficient but it is the size you know of what today would be well it wouldn't exist or be the size of like where they would hold servers for a computer you know it's in these kind of this huge uh this huge room so um that's the kind of aesthetic all the costumes seem it seems like almost ill-fitting in a way like that correct me if I'm wrong when I was watching a portion of it yesterday it felt like your suits were like one size too big. Yeah, the idea is that

like you were given kind of like you know, like a kind of like the local issued suits and so, you know, it's like one size doesn't fit anybody. There's no tailoring in the future. Right, exactly. And also kind of it made my character look, I guess, just that much more diminutive, but

I had just the idea like going into the, starting the movie that the other character, the doppelganger like his clothes and his stuff fits you wouldn't notice it as an audience member that the clothes are slightly more fitted but the character

seems just more kind of comfortable in his skin because the clothes are a little more fitted so that was another opportunity for us to kind of make these kind of distinctions that people would maybe grasp unconscious. It's fun like I was watching like the I think it's correct me if I'm wrong it's like the first scene between the two characters is in like that diner so you know Kathy Moriarty's there and it really speaks to what as I clicked on a word thing on my laptop

We're still recording. We're still recording, yes. That it's a demarcation point for those two characters is like how they treat or a waitress and how they order food. Right. Like are you the kind of guy that like if you get the wrong food that comes to you, that you'll just accept it or will you prefer it?

You prefer the wrong food to come to you? Just to kind of, yeah, alleviate some kind of guilt. Yeah, like the one character is, yes, Simon he orders a Coke and a bagel. she says they're out of bagels so he kind of he doesn't know what to do and he stammers and finally

he just says then he'll just have the Coke and the other guy orders eggs bacon toast and a beer and pounds the table and they don't offer anything like that at this moment because they don't have breakfast now but he asks her to kind of make an exception and she does and it just you know is

kind of emblematic of the way these two guys navigate the world and it's very you know it's a sad funny scene. It's great. Are you desensitized as me to sirens? Because I know you grew up in the area. I feel like when you were, if you're in another city with people that haven't grown up with that, like everything stops.

Like something's horribly wrong. Something might be horribly wrong, but we're fine with it. Right. Well, yeah, because the sirens indicate that somebody's accounting for the thing that's hardly run. If it was just someone wailing and screaming, then we'd actually be upset. Yeah, or just silence, just peace because you know, before the storm. Right. This is going to be an interview of tangent

in case you can tell already. Are a lot of your interviews like this? What's that? Are a lot of your interviews like this? The best ones, I think. Oh, really? Meander. And do you edit them?

Hopefully not. We'll see how off the rails we go. Oh, really? Should I edit this? I would imagine you might. You wouldn't enjoy listening to this kind of conversation? I don't like listening to my own voice,

but if I was somebody else, I would also be upsetting? I wonder if other people feel about my voice the way I feel about my voice. Judging from the way your films have performed and the reviews, I would say probably not. Oh, I know, but you know, everybody, yeah, oh, I see what you're saying, but maybe they like it despite the thing. Right, it's the, it's the, it's the bad taste they just want a little bit more of. Right, exactly.

Why do you have a picture of that? Harrison's a pee in a pod. I mean, come on. What is that? Did you know that Harrison Ford every year for Halloween dresses up, like... Oh, in an elaborate outfit? In an elaborate, I mean, it's for his kids, it's adorable, but, like, how incongruous is that with his image? How strange.

And what's Season of the Witch? Season of the Witch was a Nicholas Cage movie. I have to confess that's kind of an ironic thing because it's not a great movie. Oh, I understand. Do you dress up for Halloween? Oh, no. When's the last time you dressed up for Halloween?

You probably had to as a child. Every child, you... I didn't... I never liked Halloween and then... Because I didn't like dressing up. And I found this thing when I was younger where you put your arm through a little sleeve and then it looks like you have a fake arm.

It looks like you're holding somebody else's arm that you've just torn off. Right. So you put your arm through and then, you know, fold your wrist. Sure. And then it looks like a glove is holding what is your real hand. Okay. So it makes the kind of the, it looks like you're holding somebody. And I just wore that as you can take it on and off,

and I didn't want to have face paint or a costume. Right. Was that effective? Did it elicit the desired effect from Passers' body? No, what it did was just kind of, excuse me, from having a larger costume. The tangent number 17, night moves. Can we talk about that for a second? It was interesting to watch that in juxtaposition with the double

because this is a Kelly Riker film, if you've seen any of Kelly's other work. It's not a lot of dialogue. It's a very behavioral film. It relies on just watching people do things. Is that something that was exciting for you to kind of mix it up and not run? rely on, because some of your most famous

roles are very verbal performers, performances, to kind of like get a script that I would guess was pretty spare. Was that an exciting kind of prospect? Is that part of the algorithm what made it interesting? Yeah, I mean the character doesn't speak, even though

the kind of movie is like you said has a limited amount of dialogue in the first place, the character has the least amount of dialogue even within that. kind of quiet context. He doesn't speak that much. But I liked it because it made sense for the character. I mean, you know, it was not some kind of affectation. He is like a guy who is so

filled with rage and confusion and self-doubt that he doesn't know what to say. He is surrounded by, he is an environmental activist. He is surrounded by this young woman who is like kind of a rich girl paying for this operation that he decides to bomb a dam he's opposed to you know kind of the hyper development in the area

and then he and the other guy he is like a vet who is just kind of an irresponsible guy but who has skills with like bomb making and he's just frustrated by both of those people so he's silent around them

and it's an interesting character in terms of what you're saying about like dialogue it doesn't really change much for me because you know as an actor and a thing you're trying to kind of experience some kind of realistic emotional life and if that means talking then you would speak and if it means not talking you would not speak so it's I thought it's just as valid and just as interesting yeah I mean it just strikes me like I mean our scenes were where our extended takes

like something like an actor, any actor or you in particular values as opposed to sort of very choppy, cutty you know, it's dictated by the material obviously and the style of the film material. You're right, it's a kind of nice luxury to have longer scenes. The downside of a movie like night moves is that they don't

we don't have that much time. It's a shorter schedule which is unfortunate because it would be wonderful to have a lot of time with a character like that because it's such an interesting role to try different things. So the upside is you have these really long takes of different activities like

my character works on a farm by day and he's building a bomb at night so you have both of these kind of routines done almost in you know a lot of times in like kind of real time like planting something right harvesting something building a bomb

kind of in the monotony that comes with those activities which in turn makes it very intense because you know the character's doing this monotonous activity but he's doing is building a bomb to blow up a dam so it's this kind of strange juxtaposition of real intensity and real kind of monotony. And that's a real luxury to be able to kind of do stuff in real time because you can live out the experience.

Of course, working on like a 20, you know, low 20-day schedule is, you know, ends up just, you don't get to do any takes of it, unfortunately. Yeah. I mean, when we talk about a film like that, which is like, you know, the epitome of independent filmmaking, as you say, it's a relatively small budget. But it strikes me, like, are you surprised about how clinical commercial your career also is? Like, how many big films you've been a part of and you continue to be a part of

and how you've been able to balance that? Because, I mean, your sensibilities err, I think, more on the side of, correct and put it wrong, like on more independent filmmaking. I mean, I think if I had a gun to your head, maybe you wouldn't be able to name seven Tom Cruise movies. I don't know, besides Edge of Tomorrow. I can't name that many independent movies either, though. Okay. I'm not really in the things that I would go to.

I mean, I don't really see much, so I don't really know what I would see. But my taste really kind of changes based on what I'm in at the time. So the movie I did last month was about David Foster Wallace, and I played like a journalist who goes to business. And so we were in kind of like a very literary mode for a few months. And now I'm doing this kind of action-type movie. And so I'm in that mode now, and they're of equal interest to me. I think they're probably not of equal interest to the same audience members,

but as an actor it's the same kind of great experience like both characters are like you know have like a real emotional inner life they're dealing with them so I think the movies end up looking quite different but to me the experiences of equal interest

yeah I want to segue into something which I know you can't say much about but it just it occurs to me like when you're about to get involved in argue with the biggest film of your career this Batman Superman film was the algorithm then different for that kind of a thing or was it simply based on your conversation with Zach and like, oh, that's actually a cool character.

It may be a $200 million movie, but it's still something that I can really sink my teeth into, and it's something that's fun and interesting for me. Oh, yeah, the character is luckily a really great character. Yeah, I imagine it's like, yeah, I mean, you know, actors can sometimes find really cool things and characters that are not written well. This character is like really written really well. But I guess it's like an actor's job to make something, even if there is not, much, I guess, and most movies feature characters that don't have much, because a lot of movie

characters are like functional, you know? They come in to deliver some kind of piece of exposition, and it's really hard to do something interesting with that. But some great actors maybe are able to transcend that or something, but I guess I don't get to send many of those kind of parts. There's the fact that, I mean, there are a lot of eyeballs on you anyway, but when you're attached to that kind of project, you know, your fame is going to diminish in the next year or two thanks to something like that.

Is that something that you kind of like have to factor into the decision? Like, okay, if I sign into this cool part, fun part, but also I'm going to be part of like this machine for a year or two and I'm going to have to expose myself even more than I already do. What, your fame is going to diminish or your privacy? I'm saying with like a franchise like that to agree to be a part in that, that means you also have to be part of the publicity machine and part of this whole thing, which I imagine is not your favorite part of the gig.

Oh, yeah, you have to do it anyway. I mean, for a movie like The Double or Night Moves, you know, arguably me doing interviews for it is much more important than doing an interview for Batman. Yeah. Because there's not that much money for posters, whereas Batman, if I, you know, was in a coma after it was filmed, you know, the movie, it's still probably. Yeah, right? Something like The Double kind of requires me to go, you know, do interviews. So I don't really see that as that different. I mean, the only difference is like you kind of are just exposed to more people. And so, you know, walking down the street maybe is more annoying.

But I already don't like walking down the street because it's so hot outside. So that's not that big of a difference to me. But, I mean, you know, like as an actor, you want to kind of like kind of keep working. You know, I do other things. Like I write plays and stuff. And, you know, that I could do any time on my own. but if you're an actor you kind of have to be hired by other people and it's important to be in those

big things I mean you know I happen to want to do this movie because the character's awesome but it's also important to be in those for some kind of like longevity sure no totally speaking of walking down the street I apologize for making Times Square which is the epitome it's I love New York I grew up

in New York but this is not the ideal place to be as a New Yorker yeah I went to high school like two blocks from here on 48th Street yeah and you where where is that Dalton? Dalton, Upper East Side, 89th, and Lex. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Oh, that's where it is? Yeah. Oh. No, okay. Yeah, so, I mean, I know this area. I mean, obviously, you know this area, too. But I always had, like, I always liked it here.

I don't know why, because I associate going out high school with here. Yeah. Let's talk about our New York, New Jersey roots. I know you grew up in, in Jersey, though, right? Yeah, I was born in Queens. We moved to New Jersey when I was, like, four or five, and I don't remember because I was too young. And then I lived in New Jersey And then when I was 17

I transferred to school here in Midtown So I would come here every day from there And was, that was the dream Was New York like it's close enough that you know That's where the action is That's what it seems cool Yeah I mean the only way I could get to go to New York When I was 14, 15, 16, 17

Was to get into a play Before I went to high school here That was like the way to get out of my town in New Jersey I mean it's a fine town I guess but I didn't like it, you know, I didn't like, I just, you know, I guess like a lot of people who try to leave, you know, I feel like you don't fit in for whatever set of reasons that have very little to do with the town itself and more to do with whatever you're dealing with, and so I loved going here, and I had to get into a play, so, and at the, when I was younger,

most of that was, like, musicals and stuff, so I try to get into, like, musicals and stuff. I'm not... You still sing? I could sing, but I'm not, like, good enough to be in the lay-mis or whatever the other, you know, when you're young and like that. So I was not in those, but... I would get in kind of like the secondary shows if, you know, right to like

sing-talking. I was like the, um, what's that Elaine Stritch of teenage boys? Well, yeah. It's got to be somebody. It's funny to, yeah, go through Oliver. Like, it's like a kind of cabaret act or you're kind of half-talking. And why does he have a glass of whiskey?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he has no gruel, but for some reason, a double espresso and a shot of gin. Were there some formative plays or film? that really, like, knocked you back for a loop as a child that, like, that, like, that you think back to you, that's a... Yeah, I mean, when I was younger, I saw Titanic on Broadway, like, eight times.

Oh, I saw that production. You did? That musical, right? Yeah, I liked it. Yeah. I saw the Civil War, which lasted, like, very short. I saw it, like, five times. You know, I saw these shows because they allowed for, like, student tickets. Yeah. And so I would, like, come in every Saturday in the morning and wait online, and then I would get student tickets. So, so I saw these shows that were, like, at the time, I guess not... I guess Titanic was thought of as good, maybe as kind of a little touristy or silly or something, or, or, like... maybe it was a little gaudy or something, but I liked it because I got to go so much,

and the Civil War was regarded as, like, a terrible musical, I guess. It lasted very few. It was a Frank Wildhorn show. Okay. And it was, it lasted very little. But I loved it. I thought it was great, and I mainly just saw it because I couldn't get the tickets. And I ended up, you know, I had seen it a lot,

but I guess it was regarded poorly. So I didn't see, like, the good things growing up. And then Beauty and the Beast didn't sell the first two rows. So if you went in at intermission, you could sit in the first two rows for free you just walked in with the people smoking at intermission and so I saw the second act of that several times do you need me to fill you in what happened in the beginning

or have you caught up now? I was able to kind of extrapolate from what was happening at the end I assume all the things that got resolved that the second act started out as conflicts in the first making an assumption that I know right could have started out happy and's happy exactly

and film wise how intrinsic is I mean it's like kind of the no-brainer for most New Yorkers which I would consider you is Woody Allen into the fabric of your being was he an important part? Yeah, I mean, I never saw anything he's done before I turned like 17. My parents, I guess, didn't watch his stuff.

I was just raised in the suburbs in Jersey. He wasn't really part of it, I guess. Got it doesn't really maybe represent suburban New Jersey. You know, maybe, so I didn't, I knew his name probably from like, the tabloid stuff that he was in and then when I was like 17 I saw something you start bitching on all this yeah I saw it and I really you know I really liked it and you know I didn't

I didn't think like oh that's what I want to do or like that's the kind of comedy I like you know want to do as an actor because um but I just thought it was phenomenal but I didn't see like myself in it really like some people I think see themselves in that right I didn't really see that but I really loved it is it drew I read somewhere uh that times to miss the meters is... Oh, yeah, I loved that one. That's amazing. Yeah, I really loved that one,

because he was able to make something that was, like, really, you know, and, you know, it's a really weird story. It's a very strange story, but very dramatic and very funny. Yeah, it's the point of me of them blending those two sides of himself, yeah. And he's, like, really effectively makes this story

about, like, this, like, murder, too. Like, and it seems like to kind of just reconcile that, with the comedy. Yeah. a part of that movie so well. I mean, my analysis is so trite, but it's really good. I really loved it. Do you have a favorite pull on the comedy side?

Of his movies? Yeah. Yeah. What is yours? Love and Death. Oh, you like that? Yeah, I liked that one, too. Geez, I don't know, I'm sure. I can't think of right now, but, yeah, I love to stand up comedy when I was going to high school here. I, like, memorize some.

And I went to a school here, and then, like, the school was, like, a performing arts school. And so, kind of, I would do the stand-up comedy for the other kids in the school, and everybody kind of at the end of the year had memorized, like, the moose thing, because I was doing it all the time. Everybody really liked it. Did you ever do your own stand-up? Did you ever do it? No, no, no.

No interest? No, I can't do, I'm sure, like, kind of performance comedy. You know, when you do stand-up comedy, like, you are, you know, being, judged on this binary system if it's like funny or not funny and I would feel so nervous doing that whereas like if I do a comedy movie like the double like I'm really not required to be funny in that way you know you come from a place of real emotion right and if it happens to be funny based on the context and setting then you kind of then that's good but not necessary and then like I write like for the New Yorker shouts and murmurs and that has to be funny but

it's not performance driven, it's text. How satisfying is it seeing your name in the New Yorker, a byline in the New Yorker? It's got to feel pretty special. Yeah, I wanted to write, again, I discovered it very, very late, like maybe two years ago. I did not read The New Yorker growing up, and I didn't know the comedy section existed, and then when I discovered it, I thought, oh, I thought I really liked to write this, and then I discovered McSweeney's, and I got rejected from both for like a year, and then finally I got something at McSweeney's and once I got it in McSweeney's I kind of developed

the confidence to write more like that because I did writing and I had already had plays on in New York and stuff so I had been writing a lot but that kind of format is so specific and is a real kind of specific skill set to kind of write short form comedy pieces so then once I then I kind of took to it pretty quickly and so within a year I had like you know I was submitting to the New Yorker for a while but within a year like submitting I had gotten accepted and then after you get accepted there it's more it's easier to get accepted. You know, it's kind of a, you have to break through, I guess, initially.

Is there, because, you know, you've done the short-form pieces for New Yorker. You've obviously done playwriting. Is there, like, do you kind of juggle it all at once, or do you kind of, like, I'm in a minnow right now where I want to explore something a little longer form, I want to do this, or? I think a lot of times, like, dovetails with what I'm working on, like this movie I just did in about the David Foster Wallace. Like, I was playing a writer, and I ended up, like, on the weekends, like, writing a week.

Like, I have a book coming out next year, and I had to, like, kind of write. I was trying to finish up pieces for it. And on the weekends, I think, probably because I was spending every day, like, thinking about writing and talking about writing, it just ends up infecting you. And now I'm doing this movie where my character is kind of a, he's like a stoner, unmotivated, who then becomes embroiled in this kind of, like, CIA plot because they're trying to kill him. And it's a great movie, but my character. And it's a great role. The character is a really interesting guy. He has been brainwashed by the CIA,

and he's starting to come to terms with the fact that his whole life has kind of been fabricated by this secret organization. So it's a really interesting character, but the character has no motivation. So for me, like on the weekends, I kind of just feel lazy. And I think it's not because I'm intentionally trying to be like immersive in my characters, even though I do immerse myself. I think what ends up happening is you spend like 14 hours a day in the spirit of a role and it naturally infects whatever you're experiencing so I've done movies where like my characters are not very nice people and I've alienated friends and family you know then you realize only in retrospect oh no I see what I was doing now so now I'm trying to kind of realize that while it's happening so that I don't

at least be suffer so you can maybe so I don't when it turns off you can actually turn into the productive person you want to be yeah or just like no oh I'm probably going to not be nice to somebody for a few weeks because I'm playing this character that's awful to his mother. And so I'm not going to be nice to my mother, but that's because of the role. But it's the fun part of... That's a head of boss. That's, you know, she's a very forgiving woman. But, you know, it's like the kind of, it's the wonderful part of immersing yourself and the thing you like to do. Occasionally there are like, you know, I guess downsides. Like, if you're not nice to your mother or something like that is not a good thing to do. But

mostly it's upsides. Like immersing yourself in a project is really. really fun. You know, as an actor, you're immersing yourself more than a lot of other people working on it because you're immersing your emotions into it. So if you're directing something, you're really immersed in the kind of day-to-day decision-making. And you're probably immersed in the emotions as well, but probably not as much as the actors in kind of every take, giving the real emotional experience. Maybe directors do too. I don't know. I can't speak to the other experiences on set, except that when you're acting something, at least what I do is, like,

you give your whole emotional life over to it, and it naturally infects the other areas. This way is when that's American Ultra. Yes, it's called American Ultra. So you and Kristen again? Yeah. In regards to Kristen, I wonder. She's awesome. Is it Fonse kind of work with her again after Adventureland I love, too? That's a kind of piece of work. She's great. She's really great.

She's a really great actress. Yeah, she's just wonderful. She is a good example of somebody who really immerses themselves, when we were doing Adventureland she was 17 years old and she would literally stop takes in the middle of a take if she felt like she wasn't being honest

she would say cut cut cut I'm lying totally she has no BS filter like she can't stand it right how'd you know that? I've just talked to her a ton over the years next to the trial and everything yeah she's very real which is yeah it's really wonderful you know the kind of

you know it may look sometimes as though like she is you know because she's in like those movies for example which I don't know in this movie which is kind of bigger than Adventureland like you know she it's an interesting acting style for these kind of movies because

these kind of movies occasionally require it's not something I really can do well but it occasionally requires like being big you know so to speak and she does that I guess but she's so realistic so like in this movie we're doing now every scene is kind of very dramatic because she plays my girlfriend and we're both realizing my life was a lie

and she's been kind of harboring this secret life from me. And so, like, all the scenes are kind of histrionic, and you can't really half do it. You know, I imagine in, like, a movie, like, these big action movies. I don't know, actors who always do those movies, maybe they can, like, half do it at some point, and it looks real. But if you're only in these kind of things occasionally, you end up doing the same kind of acting, you do in an independent movie, but because they're these big histrionic scenes, you end up, like, fully immersing yourself in these very histrionic moments, and it kind of can, like, make you a little nutty.

But she's really great to work with, because she does that, too. Going back, again, a lot of tangents in this, I apologize. But, like, the first time I saw you, and I think many people saw you, was in Roger Dodger way back from which is a... How old are you? I'm 38. Oh, you are? Yes.

Why, you look really young compared to that age? I mean, maybe people have looked in 38 anyway, but, yeah, you look at... Oh, you've been doing this a long time, then? It took a while, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it hurts to me, like, I don't know if you thought about this, but, like, I wonder, like, where Roger Dodger would end up today, like, if it would get a theatrical release at all? Oh, yeah.

If, like... I guess it's, like, the double... I think it's, in some ways, like, more marketable than... Than the night moves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they marketed that movie like it was kind of a mainstream

comedy. I remember that because when a trailer came out, it was the first time I was in a trailer and I thought it was the coolest thing in the world to, like, be in a movie trailer, and that other actor like rolled his eyes at the trailer. This is Campbell Scott. I said, what's wrong with it? He was like, because the end of the trailer was like, it's a comedy about a know-it-all.

who's got a lot to learn. And he was like, it's so absurd. And now as an, you know, as like an older person who's been in other things, I realize that it's kind of like a silly way to phrase them because it sounds like it could be any movie. And he was right. But the fact that they were able to even put that kind of sillyish spin on it, I guess, or kind of commercial spin on it, makes it marketable.

Did coming out of that, were the options at your feet, were there options? Or was it an exciting time? or was it kind of like this is all there is after I've been in actually a well-regarded film? Oh, it's the luckiest thing to be in. It really was. Like in retrospect, I realized it is the luckiest thing to be in. Because the thing about being in a movie like that is the movie was made for like a million dollars

and it probably made a million dollars. You know, so it's a small movie on a small economic scale. But people who make like big movies at the, at least like at that time, for me, like, watch that movie and like that movie. And they wanted to put me in their kind of bigger movies because, you know, I guess provided some kind of cultural capital cachet for them, you know, to have somebody who's kind of a more interesting movie. Now, I'm the same actor that probably a year earlier auditioned for their dumb movie and didn't get called back to read again for them, you know. But now I'm being asked to be in it and maybe getting paid like a real salary to because I was in this movie that was more suited to me in a way, you know, being in like. kind of a smaller movie I'm curious because like

clearly again like I'm sure the first up you were auditioning for whether it was commercials or TV shows or whatever it was probably not even at a young age the kind of stuff that like you were dreaming to be in you wanted to get into stuff like Roger Dodger eventually yeah but so I mean I can only imagine you have to suck it up a lot and

kind of like is it tough to get through auditions for stuff where you know like I'm dying to get into this Kellogg's commercial where I know it's going to be soul sucking but I need it anyway to push me forward you know what I mean I'm not judgmental in that way of things like that. I really am not because, you know, as an actor, you're really kind of limited to the role you're playing.

And I don't mean limited in a negative sense. You're, you know, I could say you're maybe like hyper-focused on the role you're playing. So if it's in a Kellogg's ad and it's kind of you could do something interesting with the role, that's cool if you support the Kellogg's brand. You know, if you don't support. But so for me, I didn't really care about that. I just liked, you know, kind of performance. And when I write plays or like humor stuff, you know, I'm much more picky, you know, with like how my plays are put on.

I feel very controlling over it, every aspect of it, marketing and everything. But as an actor, I don't. I don't. You know, you're in a machine that other people have much more control over than you. And so to kind of feel frustrated by the quality of a final product as an actor will be probably a lifetime of despair. Let's talk to let go of that still. to intellectualize that is the one thing

that's all to actually like... I really don't watch the movies I've done. I don't watch most movies, so I don't know I really, I don't concern myself with the final product, I don't care. The experience is very important to me, so if I have an interesting character or you're working with somebody you like,

another actor is nice, then, or inspiring to you, that's really wonderful, but the fact you know, that the movie might not be as good, it's just so far from my controller radar. What's been the closest to an ideal, or at least just like a great film experience in terms of the production of a film.

When you look back and say like if they could all be something close to that, I would take it. I like the double because I got to play two different roles in it and when any other movie, like I really love doing Adventureland and I really like that director, Greg Matola.

He's one of my favorite and I'm a great friend as well, but I love playing that role that he wrote. but part of me felt like oh no I'm playing this character every day and the character has a lot of self-doubt and so that was like maybe kind of my own feeling of like

you know it was a really wonderful character and a very well-written, well-rounded character but in the double I got to play kind of both extremes so I didn't feel like only playing this particular role It felt like I was playing both characters and the social network the character is really also wonderful but he has a kind of

a lack of social grace and sensitivity so with the double it was a wonderful experience because I got to do all of those things in the same movie so if you're ever feeling like I'm not being able to express this other part of... Just wait a couple hours yeah exactly yeah it's like when you go see a Coney Island show or whatever

if you don't like the thing there Right. Is the precision then of, like, being in, like, a David Fincher film also rewarding in that, like, you know, like, and you have the Iron Sorkin dialogue, you're like, you're like, it's not an improvisational space. But there's got to be something special in that because, I mean, you're in the hands of Fincher, you're in the hands of Sorkin. So, like, if I stay within my lane and I just sort of like hit everything precisely, we've got something special. Right, because it matches the kind of rigidity of the role. So that's good. I can imagine. it might be maybe a little more difficult to play a very kind of loose, fun-loving character in a movie that you have to do 100 takes for because it's probably hard to maintain that spontaneity.

Like, the movie I'm doing now, the character is like kind of a lazy, stoned guy and also kind of enjoys life in a way that's like, you know, in the way a stoned guy enjoys life, you know, where kind of little things are fun and entertaining for a few minutes and then it changes. Like, that would be really hard to do if you're doing 100 takes of a scene.

But if the character is kind of this rigid, you know, in a lot of ways, angry person, then it's, you know, more appropriate to do that. Totally. Are you going to live and die the rest of your life here in New York, you think? Are you any plans to go anywhere else? You've never lived in L.A., I never lived in California, but I grew up in the suburbs, so I'm not like, I didn't have your upbringing. Do you feel like you will?

I always say, I've never lived anywhere else outside of college and upstate of York, Where'd you go to college? I went to a school called Hobart. Oh, right, Hobart. I'd be perfectly content to stay the rest of my life in New York. Yeah. But I'm also realistic. I know if opportunities come in L.A., I'm not going to, you know, it's an algorithm, no.

Yeah. Maybe for you as, like, entertainment journalism, but I think they really don't film much there anymore. Right. So I can't imagine that, you know, an actor like me now, like a younger actor would end up going there for some reason. Right. You don't need to. I don't think so. Especially, I mean, given your interest and aptitude in writing and playwriting, et cetera,

like this scene here is obviously a lot more fruitful and a lot more opportunities. And also, so I'm in New Orleans now and they're filming so much more in Louisiana than they are in California. I mean, probably not on a per capita basis, but like, you know, like relative to what it used to be, I suspect, that a lot of the crew members that are working on the movie I'm doing now, they have been in L.A. for 15 years and just moved permanently to New Orleans because there's so much more work. Nice. In our remaining moments, that strange weird little fedora in front of you.

It's in front of you. Oh, that, yeah. I've got some random questions in there. Oh, yeah. Do you want to pick a couple out? See if they're interesting. If they're not, we'll move to the next one. Okay.

It's horrible. We can move to the next technological breakthrough I want to see is, I don't know, but you know, I have a cousin I was just asking about this. He worked for, like, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, and Apple, He worked for all these big companies. He's got some insight into what we're going to sue? Yes, I asked him. He said, you know, they said, I mean, this is probably not something people don't know about.

But, I mean, now he was just saying, like, really the new trend is these websites that just link individuals to individuals. So, you know, I want, like, pasta cooked, and this is my house. And I live here, and somebody will cook you pasta and bring it to your house. Like, on a plate, this actually exists. Wow. Yeah, I feel like a, like, a old person talking. talking about this actually exists. You believe somebody does this. Can you believe it? You type in pasta on the board. And it shows up 24 hours later, sometimes sooner. I prefer to

like be the kind of surprised Luddite than the kind of overly technologically savvy. Well, it's also that's a responsibility. That's a full-time job to be on top of all that stuff. What? Cooking? Yes, that's who. No, but technology. Oh, I see. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because they move so fast. like it's oh I know but there's just something like kind of irritating about those people I guess I don't want to become that you know somebody who's like on the new thing all the time

also I guess I'll wait to figure out if these things are really fleeting before you sign on you know what I mean you don't want to be the first adopter and then exactly have the palm pilot that goes in comes and goes wait what was that that was like an early black bear it was a different incarnation of like that's right palm pilot

did that have the pen stylus is what it was called Jesse that's funny the stylist. Describe your childhood room. Yeah, what was hanging in Jesse Eisenberg? Were there posters? Was there... Well, I'll tell you, I... I moved out of my parents' house when I was 18,

and they turned it into an office the day later. But they're still, like, Phoenix Suns member, Bealea hanging all over the room, because I was a Phoenix Suns fan. Why Phoenix? That seems a little random. Charles Barkley, that kind of thing. Yes, exactly. And that time... when I really liked basketball, they were a really fun team.

And it was, I think my friend liked the Chicago Bulls, so this was a way for me to have my own identity. Yeah, now it does less for my identity. Oh, still basketball fan, baseball. Yeah, and you? I mean, I grew up with the Knicks, but it's been a rough 20 years. Yeah, exactly.

So I'm a big Yankees fan, though. Yankees are my number one team. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, are they good now? They're okay. Wait, is Cecee Sabathia on the team? He is, he's on the DL, yeah, I think he's going on the disabled list. Yeah, why?

I fancy baseball team's not doing well. This is a rough day you're catching me on. Oh, I didn't realize. I see. Yeah, if I'm on edge, if I'm in a bad mood. Who do you have? Nobody good. Oh, really?

Got it, got it. Okay. Let's end on one more maybe, yeah. Okay. Let's see what we got. Let's see. No pressure. This is my favorite childhood toy.

Oh, you know what? There was this thing I saw in a catalog that was like, it was like an airplane. it was like a little plastic toy, but it had handles as though it was an airplane, and then it was like a little box where you could see that you're flying through a town. It's hard to describe, but the reason it's hard to describe is because it's a complicated toy, but when I saw it in the catalog, the way they filmed, the way they took the picture of the boy, it looked like he was in an airplane. And then when I got the thing in the mail, I realized it was so different than what the picture

indicated it was going to be, and it was so freshen. But I liked it anyway, but it was, I remember a turning point in my life. life of thinking, oh, people manipulate other people. It says something about you that when you're asked, your favorite childhood toy, you think of the thing that was endlessly frustrated and lied to you, basically. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about it recently. But, you know, I guess it's like that time in your life where you realize that, oh,

the world is really bad. The sea monkeys aren't actually sea monkeys. Exactly. I got those. Right. Jesse, it's good to see you. Thank you for coming to a heart of Weird Time Square at my weird office. Look up Donald Margulies.

Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him? Or you want me to tell him? No, no, no. I got this. People out there. People.

Lean in. Get close. Get close. Listen. Here's the deal. We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack-tacular news.

After a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh and I are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack. To eat a snack. And to rate a snack. Nentifically?

Emotionally. Spiritually. Mates is back. Mike and Tom eat snacks. Is back. A podcast for anyone with a mouth. With a mouth. Available wherever you get your podcasts.