Happy Sad Confused - Jesse Plemons

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

From "Friday Night Lights" and "Black Mirror" to "The Irishman" and "The Master", Jesse Plemons has been quietly building the kind of career any actor would envy. This week he joins Josh to talk about his newest film, Charlie Kaufman's "I'm Thinking of Ending Things" and a film (well TV mini-series to be precise) that's stuck with him throughout his life, "Lonesome Dove". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Jesse Plymonds on his new film, I'm Thinking of Ending Things, and his comfort movie, Lonesome Dove. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harowitz.

Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. You guys, no, I'm always thrilled when I can bring on a new guest, especially somebody that I've had my sights on for quite a while. If you know, you know. If you appreciate good acting, you know you're not surprised that Jesse Plemons has been on my radar for quite a while. He is something of a chameleon, something of an enigma to me, because he always pops up in the unlikeliest of places, whether it's the new Charlie Kaufman film in a leading performance or in a small part in the new Scorsese film and the Irishman.

He has really been mixing it up with some amazing, amazing filmmakers and array of different kinds of projects on television and in film in the last few years ever since I think most of us first saw him in Friday Night Lights, of course. And for that and many reasons I've wanted to talk to him for a while. I mean, I have talked to him a bit over the years, but never for an extended period of time. I know he's a bit press shy, doesn't like to do interviews too much. So I was thrilled that he finally came on the podcast for the purposes of talking about

the new Charlie Kaufman film on Netflix, I'm thinking of ending things, but also to talk about his comfort movie, which is a doozy. It's a whopper of a movie. Also, is it a movie? It's a mini-series, to be specific, this is the classic television miniseries, Lonesome, That is the assignment that Jesse gave me, as I told him, with 24 hours notice, I'd never seen Lonesome Dove. So suddenly, your guy Josh, had to spend six and a half hours of the day before talking to Jesse watching Lonesome Dove, which I'm not going to complain. I'm not digging ditches here.

I'm not working in a coal mine. I'm not a first responder. I'm just sitting on my ass watching a movie or TV show, so you don't have to cry for me. But still, that's a lot of cramming. That's a lot of TV. Thankfully, Lonesome Dove is a classic, and it's been on my radar again for many, many years. It's considered one of the best pieces of television in the last, you know, perhaps ever in the last few decades, certainly. It tells the story of two aging cowboys played by Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones, who we just spoke about on the podcast recently for The Fugitive as well.

And yeah, it's a special piece of work, and I can understand why he decided to choose this as his comfort movie. And clearly, judging from the conversation, you can see that it is one that he's returned to and has meant a lot to him throughout the years. So good pick by Jesse. I'm glad it gave me an excuse to finally watch Lonesome Dove, and I'm glad that this whole endeavor, this whole new Charlie Kaufman film gave an excuse for me to talk to Jesse at length for the podcast. The new film is, I'm Thinking of Ending Things. and directed by the great Charlie Kaufman, who is a filmmaker like no other. It's another challenging odd piece of work.

You know, if you've seen the collaborations with Spike Jones, you know, being John Malkovich, adaptation, Synecich, New York, which was directed by Charlie, you know that he's an inventive and challenging writer. and this is a, this, this film fits both of those adjectives. It also stars the great Jesse Buckley, David Dulles, Tony Collette, so a lot of great actors on hand supporting Charlie's new work. You can watch it on Netflix right now. Other things to mention, stir crazy.

My series on Comedy Central continues with a really fun episode this week. Got a chance to catch up with Rain Wilson, who was fantastic. I always love talking to Rain. You know him, of course, from the office, but he's up to a lot of different things. He's in the new Amazon series, Utopia. He's also got a really a worthy pursuit for him, and I think for all of us,

you can watch on YouTube his new series and Idiot's Guide to Climate Change. It's all up there right now. It's a few episodes. They're all pretty short. They are fun and informative, and what more can you ask? And it's obviously about one of the most,

if not the most important issues of our time, climate change. So I highly recommend you check that out. Maybe when you're done checking out Rain's show on YouTube, you can check out our episode of Stir Crazy, which was awesome. I got a tour of his pig farm, guys. This is an exclusive. This is a Josh Harwood, Stir Crazy Exclusive. Eat Your Heart Out 20, 20, 60 Minutes.

Did you get to see Rain Wilson's pig farm? I think not. So, yeah, so that's what's going on. Other things to mention. Bill and Ted is out there. Everybody seems to be digging that. I certainly did. You can catch my interview with Keanu and Alex Winter on MTV News's YouTube and social pages. That was a fun respite from the madness that is our world right now. People are

starting to see Tenet. I have not seen Tenet. I'm in New York. I can't even see it if I chose to. I don't know if I would choose to. I'm dying to see Tenet. I'm dying to see a movie. Am I dying to be in a movie theater right now? That's a longer conversation, guys. I'm sure it's a conversation that I will have more on this podcast as the month. continue, and as theaters open up where I actually am, and when I actually have to confront that decision for real, we'll see. I don't know. I have very, very mixed feelings about it. But anyway, I'm excited that Tenet is out in the world. I'm glad that people are seeing it. I hope they're seeing it safely. And, you know, by all counts, it sounds like another

challenging but ambitious, to say the least, film from the Great Christopher Nolan. So hopefully one of these days I'll be able to see it as it was intended on the big screen And most importantly, hopefully I'll be able to see it safely Anyway, that's what's going on in my world Hope you guys are staying safe and well And I hope you guys enjoy this conversation With the wonderful Jesse Plymonds

Again, his new film is on Netflix right now I'm thinking of ending things And as always, please Let your friends and family know about the podcast Spread the Good Word Happy Say I Confused, give us a good rating and in return for that I give you this conversation

Jesse Plymonds Well Jesse Plymonds Sir, you have been on the Happy Sad Confused podcast list The Secret Must Must Book Actor podcast list for some time It only took a pandemic

and a Charlie Kaufman movie for this to happen Thanks for doing this man Of course, yeah So yeah and I think as Penance you chose, we're going to get into the comfort movie in a little bit, but as penance as punishment for me, I love the movie you selected, but it was a six and a half hour thing I'd never seen until the last year. That makes me so happy.

For the first time. Yeah, I binged. We'll get to that in a little bit, though. But first of all, just give me a sense. You know, we were talking about the silly kind of like, how you doing question in this crazy time. But at least tell me this. Where are you? Are you in L.A.? Are you in Texas? What's going on with you? L.A. I'm in L.A. We would, I don't know if we'll get back to Texas, just I don't know if be safe to fly again, but happy to be here. My family drove out, I guess, three weeks ago or so in L.A. straight through, got tested when they arrived. We all got tested, and so we took Like a week-long COVID vacation, it felt like we got to see each other in a semi-normal way and they got to see our two-year-old and everything.

Insanity. Were you working at the time? Were you, I know Kirsten's in the Jane Campion movie. I don't know. Are you in that one as well? I am, yeah. We, which, again, just so lucky that that's the way that happened. It would have been terrible to have been apart during all that. Right. Yeah, we were both on that, and we had our son there, and we were a good month behind everything in the States over there. I mean, never got close to that chaos. But we stayed for about an extra month after we shut down the

just because it felt unsafe to fly and flew home. Right. We thought surely it'll be a while before production is up and running again. It was only like five weeks until we were heading back to New Zealand to quarantine for a few weeks in a hotel, then finish. Yeah, for some was the trooper of all troopers. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you can only imagine.

I mean, your son's young enough that obviously this won't be a memory, but like I have nieces and nephews where this will be the year of COVID in their eight or nine year old lives that will be just a part of them it's crazy I've been thinking about that quite a bit just how grateful I am not to have to attempt to explain this the kid I mean to see people but usually run up and hug you and now you're only seeing their eyes it's heartbreaking it is it is it's uh we yeah we're all scarred in different ways coming out of this and hopefully we'll come out of this relatively relatively soon um are you in l.a or i'm in new york actually i'm a born-bred new yorker and i was so you know thankfully we're um we're okay now but we were

kind of ahead of the curve in the horrible way and uh march and april was pretty intense here man it's insane yeah i've got a few friends that live there talking to them yeah yeah I mean, I'm a couple blocks from the park, and it's like when you have like, you know, people, I mean, I mean, not to get morbid, but like, you know, people like loading up bodies in the, and it's crazy. It was crazy. The repercussions of this will be part of us for, for some time. Um, discussing some lighter things like entertainment and, um, and filmmakers, um, you know, I mentioned Jane Campion, partially just interested what you were up to, but also because it, it, you know, It proves my general thesis about you, which is you either have exceptional taste in filmmakers or filmmakers have exceptional taste in you because in a relatively young career, you've got a long road to go.

You've kind of accumulated directors like baseball cards. Like you've got like the great roster of filmmakers. Happenstance or are you running through your own secret list of filmmakers you want to work with? It's just I sit around and I'm like, you know what? Yeah, I think it's time. I think I'm going to give him a call.

I have no idea how it happened. I will say, in a lot of ways, I was fully, I can start this, I guess. I've been doing this for most of my life, but it wasn't until I was 18 or 19 that it occurred to me that I might be able to do this for living. I've never been someone that has some rigid five-year plan, or if I haven't worked with so-and-so by this point, then what's the point? I just, I was totally, totally prepared

and content with the idea that, you know, at some point in my career, I would love to work with the greats that I love and respect. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about everyone that I've worked with, but when someone, you know, brings that up, it is, it, yeah, it leaves me a little speechless and, well, it sets the bar higher for yourself, too. It has to, it's like, wait, you've been spoiled on the likes of Charlie Kaufman and Spielberg a couple times, et cetera, PTA. It's like, well, you're not going to settle now's not the time to settle. The rest of the career

has to live up to the kind of filmmakers you've worked with and that's a tough bar to reach. Yeah, but I think there are a lot of exciting new filmmakers as well. Softie brothers

they're just getting started, I feel like. Yeah, the energy on screen that's amazing. There's a long list. Yeah. But I have no idea how this happened. Well, we can add Charlie Kaufman to the list.

He's obviously an exceptional talent, both as a director and a writer. Talk to me about reading a Charlie Kaufman script, because this one, and watching this new film, you know, it strikes me like, I love the feeling of both not knowing where a story is going, but also having the security to know that the writer, filmmaker, I trust in them enough to know that it's going to go to interesting, satisfying places. and that's what Charlie, time and time again, always delivers. This must have read exceptionally odd and interesting as a reader. I haven't yet come up with an example or metaphor. I don't just like to read, but it just feels like you're in the middle of the ocean, just being yanked and tugged in every direction. And I mean, you have no idea where it's headed,

why any of this is relevant or important, but you feel like everything is relevant and important. And by the end, you're left in this place where you're feeling so strongly and intensely. I have no idea why. And that's really exciting. just be put in this state like a magician

or something. Yeah. And yeah, I just remember talking to Brandy, my friend and agent and we read the script at the same time. And just like, what just happened? The maggot

the maggot infested pig. What? What? I just read. But it just was a shot of art. Yeah. Are you generally a good judge of screenplays? Like, do you trust your own instincts, or do you trust Brandi, your agents, your friends, your family, collaborators?

Like, what's your gut in reading a screenplay? Is it pretty accurate? I trust myself. I think... Well, I mean, every, every writer is different, some, you know, pump it full of more exposition than others. And Paul Thomas Anderson, there's hardly any exposition, which is, makes for a really interesting read because there's all the space for you to fill in. Yeah, yeah. I think, generally speaking, you can tell, I mean, you can tell what kind of writer they are by how they set the scene.

and how they paint the setting and obviously the dialogue has to feel real but if you read enough it becomes easy to tell when someone is reaching trying to be witty and when someone has a real vision you know yeah when you were so when you were growing up were you a cinephile like before you were even acting. Were you obsessed with film? Or did that come in tandem with becoming obsessed with acting? I would say yes, but my knowledge of film was limited to this movie that we'll discuss and random movies that my mom showed me just because she wanted to watch them. You know, and I was there, I feel like, you know, I remember. And there's nothing better than watching a movie that you feel like your parents even though.

You shouldn't be watching. Oh, sure. Yeah. I saw they, we were out in L.A. When I was 19, 12, and they had just re-released Apocalypse Now, you know, the extended edition. Right. The Reduc. and my mom just wanted to see it and okay yeah that is a moment I will never forget

and there was always yeah it was always a really strong interest I just it wasn't until until 18 19 that I really started to get a sense of what I liked and directors that I really responded to. So since you, it sounds like this selection today was an influential one in your childhood. Let's get right to it then. Okay. So I ask, as you know, on the podcast lately, I've been asking everybody for a comfort movie. And as I alluded to, you bent the rules a little bit by finding our first television selection a four-part mini-series that I've always wanted to see. It's so revered. It's considered a classic, but you screwed me over by letting me know

about it yesterday, so I had to cram. Just tell us your comfort movie selection and why you chose it. Well, it's some doubt. It came out the year I was born and in our household. My sister watched Annie and I watched Monsore Dove. There were no child programs. It was pretty much just Lonesome Dove. My dad's side of the family, they're all cowboys. They ride and rope and my cousin was a bronch rider. And so I grew up.

in that in that world and I think well I guess it was my go-to film anytime I was sick because and I didn't get to stay home six hours later you're probably gonna feel a little bit better so it's like a magic cure and it was also a a movie that as I grew up, it was my touchstone for sort of acting and storytelling. And once I started to realize that I was really interested in acting, those performances are such a huge part of my being in my life that it was amazing to watch over and over again as I as I got older and learned what they meant and they're talking about wanting a poke you know the little things like that it's just like ah that makes sense yeah I get it

No, but I can imagine, yeah, I mean, if you're starting to watch this as a kid, you know, I'm watching this in my, my elderly years, so it all makes sense to me. But, like, yeah, as you, as you, especially as you gain experience, too, and you keep coming back to it, yeah, watching it as a 10-year-old story about two aging Texas Rangers, that's not really, it doesn't have the residency, maybe you appreciate it on some levels. So, so what were you getting out of it? Was it just familiar to you because of the western, the Texas milieu? Sure. I mean, it's, it's, it just so happens that it's these aging Texas Rangers that are like the best odd couple that I feel like. And I mean, my mom tells stories of me, you know, the scene where they take the,

uh, take the men to Mexico. to steal back the horses that they'd stolen from them. I guess I would, I would ride on the side of the couch with like my toy gun in the cushions and work something. Yeah, I get it. I mean, we should mention for context, for those that aren't as familiar, maybe you've heard of it, but you don't know exactly what we're talking about. This is, of course, based on Larry McMurtry's best-selling novel, came out in 1989, I believe, early 89. And yes, it's an amazing ensemble, first of all.

Like, I mean, down to, like, the smallest parts of, like, wait, is that Steve Busemi? Is that, like, Margo Martindale? Like, all these, like, random people showing up in scene after scene, but anchored by these towering performances from DuBall and Tommy Lee Jones, as the aforementioned aging Texas Rangers. It's, I guess we should start with those two, because they are, you know, you think of the Western, and I think of certain actors that just feel like they belong. on a horse. They belong in that milieu. And those two guys just they exist in that world. Do you

buy it from the second you see them? Talk to me. I mean, they're also both very naturalistic actors. They're both very just like you don't see the machinery in the performances. What do you appreciate as you've, again, accumulated experience now that you look at these performances later on, what's so great about them? That very thing I just said, you don't see the acting occurring. You see the life and you don't question anything for a second. It's being said or done. And yeah, it is weird that I guess I responded to that at such a young age and then realized why the older I got.

With that authenticity and It's just like, that's now the main objective and everything I do is what I became obsessed with with them, which is just, just hopefully, you know, it's a non-terrible way of putting this, a cheesy way of putting it, just like, just showing life. that's that's what i respond to you know right and and and that can and then that can even transfer to different styles and heightened scenarios but still at a base level i mean my dad uh he was a fireman for 30 something years and it's weird as him and i had the exact same taste on actors um Even he can see it. You know, he can see when someone is putting a little extra on it.

No, I'm a sucker for these type of actors. I always say, like, my go-to-you, like my favorite actor of all time. If I had to choose one, I always say Gene Hackman, who, again, was another actor. I could never see the acting. And my biggest revelation in watching this beyond the Pavlovian response by the end of me, like getting your teary-eyed when the music would kick in, that's just the way it works every time. But no, my big revelation, my sad revelation, Jesse, Tommy Lee Jones, when he shot this,

is younger than I am now. No. No. It's true. He was like 42, like when he shot this. What? 43? I'm 44.

44. But talk about a guy that, like, had like a, I don't know, accumulated mileage in his bones he conveyed a life even at 42 or 43 I didn't know that so you worked with Tommy Lee

and you were directed by him in a western as it were that must have been a moment a series of moments it was definitely that there was a moment where we were rehearsing a scene John Let's go

and a few other actors. It was on a Saturday and we were at this church they were talking about how he was going to film the scene. If you wanted, I think if you wanted this wall to be a breakaway wall or something. Well, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, which is a quote from Monson dove

and everyone just slowly looked around. is amazing yeah he's it's quite an experience and i appreciate the no-nonsense approach and his direct approach um he you strike me as a guy because i i talk about tommy lee we actually one of the recent comfort comfort movies that came up was the fugitive for instance And he's a guy that, like, notoriously doesn't suffer fools and is pretty direct, as you say. But you also strike me as somebody, just looking at your body of work, you clearly don't intimidate easy. I mean, you know, even looking at last year, the last couple of years working, you know, in the Irishman, being in a car with Al and De Niro and directed by Scorsese. Can you just switch off that part of your brain that is losing it when you're working with icons like that?

First of all, I think the only acting I did in that film is acting like I wasn't nervous. Apparently I succeeded and that was kind of all I care about. I don't know. It's so, I confuse myself because sometimes it's just like dependent on the mood and where you're at. sometimes I'm able to act like a normal human being and sometimes I'm not, you know. But yeah, luckily, luckily, I'm meeting, you know, these heroes, these legends with also something to do and focus on. So you can, you can sort of put that aside and focus on. On the work, yeah.

Yeah. The, you know, I mentioned the Homesman, which is the film that I was referring to. You were directed by Tommy Lee Jones in that one. You've done a couple westerns. Like, I mean, one of your very first films was directed by Billy Bob Thornton, All the Pretty Horses, I think of Hostiles. You've worked with Scott Cooper a few times. Does the Western remain a genre, generally speaking,

that you gravitate to as a viewer? Yes. Like, what's on your Mount Rushmore of Westerns beyond one, some dove? I'm just curious. Are there others that... Jesse James is a movie that I... Amazing. It's so beautiful.

The performances are so amazing. That director is incredible. Nick Cave score is unbelievable. And, yeah. There's a long list there. But out of modern westerns, that one is at the top. It is generally speaking. It's funny because I think of the Western, not to generalize,

but the Western and like the War movie are something that a lot of fathers and sons kind of like passed to the next generation. Like my dad definitely passed on to me. I remember early films that made an impact like The Magnificent Seven and High Noon. and it feels like there is something that, you know, they often tackle notions of masculinity, unforgiven.

They, I mean, this film, Once and Dub, deals with, like, a real intimate male relationship that is really beautiful. And that's arguably the romance of the film is these two men. Yeah, they're an old married couple that can't escape each other except for death, you know. And they can't.

God damn it. All right, I'll take you back to Texas. You know, there's another 45 minutes after, spoiler alert, after Duval dies. Just dragging that body around with him. Oh, my God. Yeah. So. It's done well. There's, uh, it's not just sort of antiquated, uh, masculinity, masculinity for masculinity's sake. Sure. There is, there is a, something.

been really powerful about it. And that's, I think, going back to Larry McMurtry, that's, I think, why that movie, that novel to begin with is so powerful because he grew up in that world, but he was not of that world. Right. He was the scrawny, nerdy kid that desperately wanted

to be a cowboy, but also. saw that culture for what it is there's a great book of essays called in a narrow grave essays on Texas and he this is written in the late 60s but he explores that very that very idea masculinity and sort of he also wrote Well, it wasn't called HUD, I think it was called Horsemen Pass by. But this new reality of the modern cowboy being made obsolete and being pulled from these rural areas into these big cities and trading in their horses for a Cadillacs as happened to HUD in that movie. But it's just so, I do find that interesting

because that's what I grew up with too, you know. Have you watched this one with Kirsten? Do you expose each other to movies that mean a lot to you? I think it really, really bored. Oh, no. I think I just gotta, I've got to approach it again. she's in a different

that space. There's nothing more disheartening than that. Is there why I know when I show something meaningful, I forget. This is a totally different kind of a thing. Like I've tried to like show like the American president which I think is just like a perfect kind of like romantic drama comedy to my wife a few times. And it's even her genre. She likes that kind of thing.

Yeah. Gives up every time. It doesn't work. I know. Are you a fan of Ken Burns? Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Same. It's just. What about vice versa? Is there something she's tried to expose you to that you have resisted?

I mean, be totally honest. Her new obsession is below deck. And I have to say, I'm kind of entertained by it. I've watched my fair share of Bravo. We haven't gone there yet. But there's something to be Southern charm I can get behind. All good. You know, we're talking about comfort, comfort movies, comfort TV.

You've been in some things that really would fit the bill for many people. I mean, Friday Night Lights is a comfort movie, a comfort TV show, rather, for so, so many. How do you receive that love, that obsession at this point in your career with some distance to it? Because it still feels present to some people because they just binge-watched it for the first time. It feels, and because of the nature of television, they feel really connected to those characters, sometimes even more so than a film. Is that an adjustment? Is that odd for you to kind of still receive that kind of intensity? Have you always been good with kind of managing that? No, I don't think I'd probably be good at managing that. I think I've learned to deal with

compliments and that excitement and all that for a little bit better as I've gotten all that I don't know it in one way I don't it was such a huge part of my life and kind of the foundation for for my my career in a lot of ways it was it felt like the best class I've ever taken because we were just given an enormous amount of freedom to take the characters and really make them our own and it was it just felt like my my college years in a lot of way was that because of the nick because i've talked to like kitch on the podcast and adrian's been on and and my sense is it was because of the way pete shot that show and gave so much freedom and you know the camera was everywhere and it was just

sort of like theater as much as it was film it just what it wasn't the standard television project i i i threw an network television show and somehow i think i think it was the perfect the perfect storm of scenarios NBC really didn't get the show didn't get why people liked the show put us on after American Idol, whenever that was at the height of its popularity. We were filming in Austin, so we were just like the little show that they're like, I don't know what are people watch this show. We always thought we were going to be canceled at the end of our order. So it made for a kind of, I don't know, sort of summer camp side feeling where it was

just, it just felt like, play. Yeah, they're letting you get away with something here, but yeah. And then it kept going and kept going, and eventually we were canceled. And then for the next 10 years, people demanded a movie or a reunion or something, and that will never die. A couple other things I do want to mention just in the career that just always strike me. You mentioned PTA and your performance in the master is exceptional and you're working with the best.

I mean, no actor is discussed more on this podcast than Philips Seymour Hoffman, and for good reason. He could do anything. He could literally do anything. I guess, again, from an actor's perspective of seeing it up close, can you define for me what was so special about Phil on a set, on what he brought? I know he was a serious actor. He took the work very seriously. Was it just leaving no stone unturned? What was it?

I don't really know, I can only guess based on what I saw. And I mean, that was still to date one of the most amazing experiences just watching those three or four, And then bringing Amy Adams was also unbelievable. Sure. But he, you know, he had his days where it was obvious that do not disturb Zion was on and he was focused and he was about to do some shit. We're getting down to the work today, yeah. Yeah.

In the days where you can just tell, he was a little more open to engage. he was able to do what he did I don't know I think his his just capacity to feel maybe and his depth and and also is very very smart but there's a lot there's a lot there that he had to drop them. And it was interesting to see how different Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix approached a scene. But there was never a moment where you felt like something that one of them did stalked the other one.

It's this constant forge of just experimenting. And I think at that point, Hawkins had been working with Paul on the character for a year or two. And so he was pretty dialed in. And then Joaquin was just like a loose animal on set. both must have been so inspiring to watch yeah i think i think of fills if you just look at phil's performances in paul's films just alone the diversity i mean i think of like

like boogie nights his small role but amazing role and punch drunk like i mean he just he just draws you in in a different way in every performance um i i've resisted the urge in this conversation to not do a deep dive into gary on game night with you Jesse because I am obsessed I'm obsessed with Gary I'm obsessed with that performance that character that film um I want to call them this guided ones and that's all I'll remember there's nobody I've uh I've uh I've used like the the gif of Gary like receding into darkness on my Twitter account so many times I can't even tell you um how much of that was on the page how delightful was it to play Gary uh tell me everything tell me anything

Well, I was doing Black Mirror whenever I received that script with Billy Magnuson. And it was late after work, and I had to read the script and started it and got to the end of Gary's first scene and closed the script and called my agent. that yes I want to play Gary and then eventually read the rest of the script like oh wow did not expect that but in that version of the script that I read I'm pretty sure I'm pretty positive it described Gary as being Michael Shannon So to me, yeah, I was excited to play around in that, in that world, and there was a, maybe he listened to his podcast, I don't know, but a landlord of mine that really reminded me of Gary. So a little bit of the landlord, a little bit of Michael Shannon?

Yeah. and just that yeah that he there's not a moment where he feels awkward which is just and everyone else does that's so much fun to play that is a great way of putting it just for this reason because like I'm obsessed with Michael Shannon by the way he's literally my spirit animal like he's just the best and I often describe and I get along well with him and I think for a particular reason in that he loves the awkwardness and loves to make other people feel like you know you've been to the press junkets i know you probably hate them as much as i do they're horrible but like you know he doesn't do the pleasantries to make somebody feel comfortable in the room he's just like no we're

just going to sit in awkwardness you're going to deal with so you definitely got at what i love about michael shannon and what i love about um that i mean that performance is just amazing so congratulations yet again on that let's see more gary um wrapping up i know you have a bunch of things coming up you've got you collaborated with scott cooper antlers which seems like a change of pace for him curious about that one um judas and the black messiah looks amazing that trailer was yeah what about daniel kalua oh my god talk about a guy that's just showing up in a different way every single time and just mesmerizing But what's crazy is at the script read, which I don't love script reads anyway, you never know.

It's like, are we doing this? Right, yeah. Do you go for it or are we just kind of like reading the words? Yeah. And I was the key to my left, and Daniel was next to him. And we got to his first scene, and it seems like about 80% of it was there. a month or so before we started shooting I was like, oh, shit.

So then are you like, oh, God, I've got to... Today's an acting day. Today's not the day just to read the words. Yeah, he was so good and powerful in this script read. And, yeah, Keith was... Most of my scene here with the Keith who's working with.

Yeah, I'm very excited about that one. Only in theaters. Hopefully we get back into theater safely relatively soon. Whatever you're doing, whether it is a secret list that you're running through the names of calling on your secret bat phone to the directors or whether they're just calling you up, keep doing what you're doing because the material you're putting out there is just exceptional time and time again. And I've always been a fan of your work. And I'm sorry that this conversation happened in this way. Hopefully we'll have you to the office in New York at sometime soon when life goes back to normal. but thanks as always for your time man i really appreciate it likewise stay safe up there

and not running to you one of these days and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts i'm a big podcast person i'm daisy ridley and i definitely wasn't pressured to do this by josh The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo,

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