Happy Sad Confused - Joe Manganiello, Vol. II

Episode Date: March 10, 2021

Our favorite nerd/He-Man makes a return to "Happy Sad Confused" this week and there's a lot to talk about! From his indie "Shoplifters of the World" (a dream for any Smiths fan) to "Zack Snyder's Justice" league, it's a study in contrasts. Josh and Joe go deep on his journey with the Deathstroke character and what the future may hold! Check out Jack Quaid on STIR CRAZY here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Joe Mangonello and I nerd out on the Smiths and Zach Snyder's Justice League. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Well, the run of Newbies is over for now. We had a nice little, I don't even know,

was it five or six episodes in a row of new guests of the podcast. podcast, and that was nice, and I'm always thrilled to meet new people and welcome them into the happy, sad, confused world. But it's also nice to return to an old favorite, a friend of the show, a friend to all of my shenanigans over the years, Mr. Joe Mangonello. Yes, the nerd in He-Man, in the body of a He-Man that I always love talking to. We have passionate discussions and arguments about all things in the nerd realms. We've collaborated on a bunch of comedic things over the years.

He's always been one of the guys I love talking to and writing for. So it was fun to catch up with Joe, who has a ton going on. Always keeping busy. Always, you know, always with his foot in the geek world. He is the biggest, I mean, he lives the life. I mean, you hear some people be like, yeah, I'm a geek. No, this guy, if you've heard him talk before, if you've heard his background, he walks the walk. He may, again, he may look like he man and Superman, but inside he's a bigger nerd than I am,

and that's saying something. So he's got a lot going on, as I said. There are a couple films in particular we talk about on this episode. One is a small little kind of labor of love. It's called Shoplifters of the World. It's a very sweet movie. The big selling point of this one is it has wall-to-wall music. the Smiths, so that's amazing. It's set in Denver, 1987, Joe plays kind of a shock jock,

like a radio DJ, but he's a kind of a supporting key player in the film, but it's really about a bunch of young people who are devastated by the breakup of the Smiths back then. And you can tell there's passion and love behind the film, and I would highly recommend you checking it out for the music, for the performances, for a nice independent labor of love shoplifters of the world that comes out later in March. I believe it's around March 26th, I want to say. So look out for that on VOD, et cetera. Now, you're not going to need to look out for the other movie we talk about, because it's going to, it's going to just blast through the pop culture landscape like nobody's business. It is, of course, Zach Snyder's Justice League. I can't believe it's here. So

here's what I'm going to say. We talk about, okay, so first of all, I'll say this. I have seen Zach Snyder's Justice League. I can't believe I'm saying that. Like, it exists, and I've seen it. I've seen over four hours of Zach Snyder's vision for Justice League, and I'm not going to spoil anything. I don't think I'm even allowed to. I think Warner Bros. would kill me, or HBO Max would kill me.

But I will say that, and I say this to Joe, I think if you're a Zach Snyder fan, you are going to be very satisfied. And, yeah, maybe I'll leave it. there. So there are no real spoilers in this conversation. So that being said, if you want to go in like not knowing anything and you're really just trying to like, you know, keep this a pristine experience for you when Zach Snyder's Justice League drops on HBO Max, don't listen to the podcast or don't listen to that section. But I really very consciously avoided spoilers. We did not go into anything that will spoil the film at all. There truly is nothing in there. But again, if you want to be

like super careful about it. Maybe wait a second. That being said, we have a great chat. And actually, our chat about Justice League and Destrook, who Joe, of course, plays, is really more about his journey with that character. And it's been a fascinating one. He was cast by Ben Affleck back when Affleck was going to star in and direct the Batman movie. And Destrook was going to be like the main villain of that. And then Destrook was going to be, he had the cameo in the Justice League movie that came out in theaters. And then Destrook was going to get his own movie. directed by Gareth Evans, and then Deathstroke was going to maybe be in the Suicide Squad. So there's been a ton, and we go into all of it.

Joe is very candid and kind of walks me through the whole process, and there's a lot there. If you're here for stuff about the Snyder universe and about Deathstroke and where it goes from here, and if it goes anywhere from here, this is the chat for you, because while we don't know anything, I think there's a lot of possibilities still, which is fascinating. And if you had talked to me two years ago, I don't know if I would have said, or Joe would have said, or Zach would have said there are possibilities. But I'm being honest, and I'm not just like trying to, like, bait people. Having seen the movie and knowing the interest that there's been in Zach Snyder's Justice League and knowing how this fan movement kind of willed this movie into existence, nothing would shock me at this point, truly. So we'll see.

So I think you guys will enjoy this chat. And of course, we just nerd mad about Dungeons and Dragons, which Joe is obsessed with. and all sorts of other projects, Star Wars, et cetera. A fun chat, like I said, with a kindred spirit, Mr. Joe Mangonello. Other stuff to mention, Sir Crazy, of course, continues. I got a lot of great feedback last week if you haven't checked out the Daisy Riddley episode. Please do. It's one of my favorites.

We surprised her with Mara Wilson of Matilda fame. Matilda is Daisy's favorite movie of all time. She had no idea, and you can literally watch her brain. melt in front of our eyes, and that was a delight. This week's episode, by the time you listen to this, we'll have up a new episode with Jack Quaid. Yes, Jack Quaid, star of the boys. That was fun.

Jack is like, you know, someone I haven't done a lot with, but is poised for a lot of exciting, you know, new adventures in his life. Thanks to the boys. And I feel like the Internet loves Jack Quaid, and I get it. He's very charming and very open. And this was a super fun. chat. So check that out on Stir Crazy on Comedy Central's YouTube page, Twitter feed, etc. That one is out there for you right now. That's all the preamble for today. I'll get to the

main event right now. This is me and Joe Mangonello talking all things, shoplifters of the world, and yes, Zach Snyder's Justice League. Please enjoy. It's a pleasure to have my friend, my muse, a friend to all my pursuits, including Happy Seg and Fused, Joe Maganello, back in the house. It's good to see you. Man, back. I'm back. We're back.

This is our development call for the Vigo, the Carpathian TV series that we're working on, right? Yeah, the Vigo, the Carpathian origin series. There's 10 episodes there in Netflix. There's 10 hours of Vigo that should be explored, right? the Ghostbusters 2 prequel series not part 1 part 2 no because everybody acknowledges the second one is where you really

there's more backstory that needs to be explored and you sent me an interesting link to an article about the guy who played Vigo the Carpathian who I guess was typecast or maybe he actually is Vigo the Carpath I was going to say they found the one guy that has like a darker history than the

character that he played uh that guy's life was pretty fucked up yeah it was insane i mean we we have a whole podcast about that what we should we should i mean right yeah we'll do a 10-part podcast on the history of the character and the actor uh that played vigo well it's like it's like a being john malcovitch or something you know what i mean like we need like a like a spike jones touch in that this guy is going from vigo back to his his home life which is scarier yeah exactly First of all, let me get some temperature check stuff on you. We've kept in touch to a degree, but how is, how's the dungeon? Have you made modifications?

Is it's? Yeah, big time. I actually ordered a new table. There's a company called Black Forest Wood. They're out of Canada. And I put down the deposit down for a 12 foot by six foot blue resin mixed with cottonwood burl wood table. So I'm currently.

upgrading. I have many, many, many miniatures painted. I've been keeping my painters employed throughout COVID. They're working. So when you when you're DMing and the and you're continuing the D&D I presume every week with your buddies like so online. Online though. It's online. Well I was gonna say so are you alone in the dungeon like while all your friends are zooming in? I'm one sitting at my desk. This is my home office, so I sit there because I have, I can have the iPad open for Zoom so I can see everybody and communicate. And then I have a PC, big PC screen where I can pop maps up. There's a program called Roll 20. Okay. And you can, you can get maps. You can buy

maps from people and make your own, you know, city and then blow it up and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I'm usually sitting right here at the desk. And yeah, they all come in through Zoom. And some of them are on the East Beck. Big shows on the East Coast. So he's coming in from Florida or wherever he's on road wrestling that Friday. So talk to you a little bit about, okay, you know, as I talk to people and catch up with people in recent times, I'm always just curious about like how the last year developed. Like the best laid plans kind of blew up for all of us, right? We kind of all had to kind of like figure it out as we went. What was the last year? What was 2020 supposed to be? And when did it end up being for you? Like, did you end up

shooting much? Like what were you up to most of the year? Well, I wound up working a ton. I had three movies in the can that rolled out. Well, and the third one is getting ready to roll out. So, you know, it was kind of like every few months I had press to do. And then from there, like there was this big movie, like a big fun movie that was going to come my way. And because of the, you know, we aren't able to shoot. They turned. turned it into an animated series. Oh, is this the Zach Snyder? Is this the Army of the...

Yeah, yeah. So it pivoted perfectly into this idea, you know, into this animated series, which is amazing. And I've seen all the artwork and of my character and all the things that I do and we do in it. You know, it's great. It's like me and Batista had this huge knockdown, dragout. You know, I hope I'm not giving it too much away.

I think that'll excite people to watch it. But it's all animate. And some of the stuff that we do on. And that series is really fun. I wish I could talk about more things, because I have other things that I knock the book that talk about that are animated or mocap. So I have some really experimental things

that are on the way that I got to do. I got to voice. I played the big villain in the Dungeons and Dragons video game that's going to come out soon. So I got to do that. A couple of cartoon shows for Disney. I was going to say a lot of voiceover work in the last couple of years. I mean, you've got one of your South by films,

you play a guy that looks suspiciously like Zardaz to me. I got a sweet mustache and mullet. That one's called, what, Spine of the Night? Do I have that right? The Spine of Night, yeah. Spine of Night. And it's Rhodoscope, like if you're a fan of old Ralph Bokshi movies, then it's a real throwback to that, which was like incredible.

It took seven years to make. it's just there's like blood and sweat and every single animated frame of that movie it's really I just saw it and it's amazing nice so the let's let's start by talking about two of the films that I've actually seen and they are different ends of the spectrum to say the least in terms of size and scope one could be the

the catering budget of the other budget-wise shoplifters of the world which is something that sounds like it took a while to get going as a lot of indies do I mean this goes back, I saw you were, I think you were attached to this like in 2014. Does that sound right? Sure. And before that, before that, I think I read the script. I read it 10 years ago. Yeah. So what was the, I mean, I've seen it. It's very charming. And if anyone loves the Smiths, this is the movie made for you. Talk to me about sort of how you got hooked up with with these

guys and what was the appeal. Well, I read the script. I love the Smiths. I very similarly to, well, to my character in the film, you know, I grew up a metal head in a lot of respects. I mean, I was also like a mid-90s raver, like drum and bass guy too, which we can, that's a whole other podcast. But, you know, I was, when I started doing theater, all the cool kids listened to the Smiths. And there were all these, you know, mixtapes that got passed around with like, you know, violent femmes and James and the Smiths and, you know, all that cool alternative, like real alternative music that came out of the 80s and into the early 90s. in the early 90s and so I just I love the Smiths and and have been a smiths freak ever since and have like made friends and kept friends because of our love of the Smiths and you know it's just one of those bands and I read this great script that

was full of Oscar Wilde poetry in these little Easter eggs of Morrissey lyrics that he hadn't written yet in 1987 that kind of read like this like a link later yeah kids in 1987 exploration it felt like it came out of someone's memory of a night in their life or nights in their life and I just loved it and I just thought you know

this is this is one of those sometimes you come across those hills that you know there's going to be a battle especially you know creating an independent film from the ground up but like it was one of those hills of like I'm going to die on this hill getting this movie made and so it just became this real labor of love and then

you know Morrison and Johnny Moore agreed to give us 20 songs to use in the movie, most of which had never been used before, like, and they did, they were, they were very generous about the price, and and so that was, yeah, I was gonna say, so like, we had the music, it was like, we can do this.

Yeah, yeah, like, what comes first? Like, do you, does that script get written, and then do you go to Morris, you're like, what, like, because that's, uh, if you don't get the buy-in, what do you do with that movie? I mean, no, and there is, there was a price to sit down at the table, there was an ante,

the ante was, yes, you need a script, you need to show them something that they're going to get behind or, and then also you're going to have to, you know, pretty pleased with sugar on top, you know, this is our budget and, you know, this is what we can give you. And, and so, but yes, you have to, you got to start with that piece of material and they were good with that. I mean, of course going into the casting process every single you know represented you do you have the music right you know every finance here do you have the music so that was their first question so it was script first then music then money was um so you're playing uh full metal mickey did you have a guy like this in your life did you have like a wolfman jack a deed like someone on the radio that

you like kind of like followed along Uh, no, but I had, uh, I had the, I had Eric Bogosian, you know, I, I had, I had Henry Rollins. I had my friend Steve Jones. You know, I had Jones, you know, I had people that, um, you know, certainly I think when you talk about Bogosian, you talk about talk radio. And, um, and then also like, if you think about vanishing point or even do the right thing, you've got these great DJs, you've got these great DJs. characters that are kind of part profit part DJ yeah and um and so then of course you mix it with the time period and you go well you know I want to play too so you go all right let me kill my sir handlebar mustache I think that's where we're going with this no man has really you're you're at the top of your game when you're manipulating your what you got your facial hair the hair at the top of your head you you've had every conceivable look and you're just stuck getting started. I don't know where there is left to go. I know and especially even the

past year, you're asking like what COVID's been like. It's just been like the parade of haircuts for whatever reason. It's like I grew it out long. Then I had to cut it short. Then I white mohawk. Then I'm going to be bald in a month for this other thing. So, well, I'll just die up blue and then now it's grown back. So yeah. But I've been ruining. So we shot shoplifters and I had the handlebar mustache. We shot it like right up to Thanksgiving. So it was the handlebar mustache for all the Thanksgiving photos.

Then last year, the Thanksgiving photos were me with the homeless beard from Arch Enemy. Right. This year, the Thanksgiving photos. It was either me with the blue mohawk or me bald. But it's like, the joke with Sophia is like, what new way can I ruin your Thanksgiving?

I was going to say, is there one where like Sophia's like, Joe, seriously? Like, what the, come on. It was funny. the first four times but now see i mean well that's the thing is like you just shrug because you're like hey it's it's not for pleasure i'm an actor you get it right it's for work there's um i mean there's a seven-hour podcast to be done on on the other project uh that's about to be released but we'll hit a a little bit here um i can't believe i can say this i've seen

Zach Snyder's Justice League, Joe. It exists. It's done. He did it. It's a remarkable story. It's crazy. If you'll indulge me, and we talked about some of this, but like, let's go through the history a little bit. Okay. So you were cast, you weren't cast by Zach first, was it?

It was first Ben, when Ben had his Batman script. I don't know if it was done or if he was working on it. How did that happen? Did you have to audition? Did you come in? Did he have you in mind? What happened? you know, I just come off of two very successful Warner Brothers movies in the Magic Mike movies.

And so I was, you know, I was in the mix over there. Yeah. So all the executives over there, when it came up that Ben, I guess, wanted to, you know, wanted to make death stroke the villain, then this discussion happened, as I understand it, where the executive said, you know, who would be great as Joe? And then Zach Snyder, who knew me from years previous, said, yeah, I know, Joe. You know, and they recommended it. They vouched for me, which set up a meeting between Ben Affleck and I.

And Ben told me, you're the only person I'm meeting with. And we had a discussion. We watched the Tim Miller video that, you know, the Tim Miller piece that got him, Deadpool, yeah. Yeah, he may be that, like, Arkham Origins, Deathstroke versus Batman video, you know, Ben and I, we talked about that a lot and how that was going to relate to the action sequences. And we talked specifically about, you know, one big action piece and what that was going to entail and kind of like, you know, not in great detail, but kind of like painted the broad strokes and talked about character.

I had no idea why I was there. I mean, I assumed secret project that shoots one day in August and then the whole movie for six, months in May, I kind of went, I think it's just Justice League of Batman, but I didn't know the character. So that was it. A week later, they called me back and said, we need you in London. We need to start fitting you for your suit. So I was flying back and forth from London that whole summer.

And then at the end of the summer, I came back. We finished the suit, tailoring the suit. And then Zach fired up the, you know, the transport plane for the Justice. League with all the smoking, and he said, let's go, let's go test this thing out. And so Zach and Ben were behind the monitors. And so was everybody else in the Justice League. Like, everybody came because they heard they're testing out the new villain for Ben's movie. And so it was like, you know, Mo Moa and, you know, I mean, and Gal and, you know, and Ben and Ezra, everybody lined up and was staring at the moment as I went and just did my, I did my, I did my

Finn, you know, which is that footage that Ben then released onto, he leaked it onto the, under the web. Right. But, you know, funny, funny just side story while I was in London, you know, I brought Sophia and we went to tea,

high tea. And she took a picture of me or we took a little picture together and it got out that I had shaved the sides of my head and had a goatee. And the CSI, level detectives that are the Justice League DCEU fans put together while he's in London, his hair looks like that, his facial hair looks that, what's shooting, what could it be

and figured out that out his death row. That's amazing. And then how soon after were you shooting your bit for Justice League? Well, that was that that trip when we did that test footage. Same trip. We then, it was It was like within days, the crew moved to Monaco. We went to the Monaco Bay, Monte Carlo, and they got this huge yacht, you know, Lex Luthor's yacht for us to shoot on it. And I mean, it was pretty quick.

You know, we were there, we shot that, and then six months later, I got notification that Batman wasn't gonna happen. Right. So before we get to that sadness, let's, let's talk a little bit about, so the Justice League scene. So I'm not going to ruin what version, it's a different version. I can say that of the scene that we see in this film. So did you only shoot that scene, did you shoot a couple different versions with Zach? Was it solely Zach or did Joss ever direct you as best drug? No. So, yeah, the scene that I shot, the original ending scene for Justice League, I shot with Zach because Zach was the director of Justice. League, and this was going to be the end sequence of his, of his movie, but it was originally to tease, simply tease me as the villain, and I would show up then later in Ben's movie. It was just to set that up.

Well, and then, and what's in Zach Snyder's Justice League, again, without ruining it, is clearly a tease, like, yes, it's a, the dialogue is much more of a tease into that Batman movie that sadly we will, I guess, never see. Yeah, yeah, probably, probably. not, I would imagine. So was there finality on the whole? I mean, we've talked about this before, but the crushing thing about these things is they linger, right? It's like what's happening with it and Gareth gets involved on his thing. And it's like, when is it over, over? Like, when do you let go? Like, did you, was there a moment where you kind of like let go of the death

stroke dream or was it kind of like a long, slow, sad goodbye? Well, it's also, it's also not over. you know currently so there there are you know there are little irons that are in the fire and to kind of answer your question there's like i can answer like four different parts of your question so did i give up on it um yeah at some point for my own sanity i had to yeah um and with that said yeah i mean imagine you know the revenant jumping out of the tree and just banging every branch on the way, you know, drumming up the cliff and, you know, you just bang every branch on the, on the tree on the way down. It was, it was a bit like that because, yeah, it was like as soon as Batman was over, you know, I developed a treatment for an origin film and people were interested

in it. And while I was shooting bottom of the ninth in New York, one night, Gareth Evans and I had a two-hour-long Skype call about what an origin movie could be for this character. And he was somebody who never wanted to do a studio movie, he's that guy, he wants to retain his outtorship, he's a true artist. I mean, if you watch Raid and Raid 2, oh my God, that guy, it was revolutionary, what he did, and

he said he said he would do it. He said he would make the movie. And then what happened was a whole, you know, a whole changing of the guard at the studio. Yeah, and that project. Yeah, yeah. And this project was like

one of the main pieces that got caught up in that and chewed up by it and when you know when the dust settled it was not a it was not seen as a priority to make a you know 40 million dollar movie about a villain origin story in which you show the backstory and uh you never got to work why would that ever that would never work that would never make a billion dollars and get someone an Oscar never so you know it just got lost in that and it's sad but then but then it was like other people wanted to pick up a baton and then there were like five different incarnate well then there was so then they redid the end credit sequence to tease a justice league to injustice league for the bad guys that

didn't happen um clearly obviously um and then uh and then there were like four or five different versions of suicide squad two that i was put on hold for you know for dates wait for one actor to free up and we were going to go and like that happened like four or five times and never came to fruition. Like Gavin O'Connor was directing it or other folks. There was a Zach Penn script. Then there was

the Gavin version. You know, there was like a with Will Smith without Will Smith. There was like just me and Will Smith. Like it was just, you know, it just went on and on. And then there were like other movies, maybe we'll be the villain in this one. And it's like, I can't do it.

I just need to... I'm kind of endlessly fascinating. And now having seen it, like, and I, you know, you know, Zach's fans, they're going to love this movie. Like, this is Zach, this is like, this is Zach Snyder's Justice League. It lives up to that title. I would not be shocked. And, like, I was a pessimist at one point, like,

how were we ever going to see this? What's this even going to be? I feel like this is going to stoke the flames for something. And I don't know what it leads to. I don't know if, like, we do go back to the Snyderverse. But, like, I would not, at this point, I would not be shocked about anything, about you do, we death stroke as an HBO Max series or who the fuck no I mean like do you agree yeah no I I agree

100% and I think um I think that there's like you know that's kind of the you know the good news and the bad news you know like what whatever you look at it it's like I think I think there's going to be there's going to be excitement over continuing what Zach was was up to and that would, you know. What was it like shooting the new stuff? Again, I don't want to spoil the specifics, but were you, were you alone or did you get to do stuff with Ben or Jared for this? No, I did.

It was all COVID-friendly. We all did the, you know, took all the protocols and showed up on set together. So, yeah, we were all there together. Crazy. And whose idea was the new hairstyle? Me. you know part of living with a character for four years thinking maybe around the next bend

you're going to get to play him you know you can't help but percolate and think and in the treatment that I wrote for the standalone in the end of the film I always envisioned I envisioned him shaving his head into some kind of like warlike

almost like borderline suicide mission, you know, this is it. Like, I'm going to die like a warrior and, you know. And I told Zach that, you know, I explained that to Zach and he said, great, let's do it. It's, you know, we're at another fascinating kind of pivot point, I feel like in all these comic book movies, both on the Marvel and D.C. side, we're like, we're exploring these multiverses where, like, there's this open, you know, again, we're going to see on the D.C. side, this flash movie we're going to see keaton we're going to see keaton as batman again how crazy is that

it is crazy that's that's wild well and also like there's just so many questions i have under what context and and then and then how do you marry very distinctive you know style choices you know tim burton's and films were so stylized i know um that's my one hesitancy about it is like i don't know. Skettie's done some cool stuff, but like taking that very specific world that Tim created and that back one, I know. How do you take a character in the Nolan verse and drop them into the Snyder verse and the Burton verse and the Joel Schumacher verse?

How do you, you know, Mr. Freeze, you know, he's going to come out and freeze everybody, you know. So now on the marble side, I feel like it's inevitable. We're going to see your Flash Thompson, obviously, return in the multiverse. Well, then you have to mix the Rameyverse with the Holland verse or the Watt verse. Hey, I mean, Ramey's back in the Marvel Fold. You never know.

I mean, yeah, yeah. Couldn't it happen to a nicer guy. We've had some healthy Star Wars debates over the years. Where are you, are you, did you watch Mandalorian? Are you, I know you're old school, your original trilogy or bust. you at all into these new series, these 12 new series? Yeah, the Mandalorian is my favorite Star Wars since 1983. No offense to the holiday special.

But I, no, I like the Mandalorian. I like the Western aspect of it. I like the episodic aspect of it. I think the formula is great. Are we doing spoilers or not? For Mandalorian? Yeah. Yeah.

Spoiler at Mandelior. And anyone listening to this has watched All Mandalorian. Listen, I have a little chihuahua sleeping on my lap that I adopted a year and a half ago. I'm not giving it over to Luke Skywalker, over my dead body. Okay? You want the chihuah? Come on through me. You got to come through me first.

And I get this brand new spear that I'm going to run through you and take my dog for a walk afterwards. What do you think about, you love Darth Vader. You loved, I know we talked about David Prowse, RIP, what he brought. to Darth. I'm excited that Ewan's doing Obi-Wan, but I'm a little, they said that Hayden's coming back as, I guess, Darth. I'm conflicted on this in a number of levels. Like, I don't want another fight between them. I always imagine they were, they never saw each other again until, until a new hope. Yeah, you know, I'm always curious how you handle the giant IP and how you manage all the stories within it. Like, that's what makes me really curious. I think the most

you know the you know but that's what i'm most curious about in terms of all the modern star wars stuff is how they handle the lore or you know there's comic books and books and fan fiction there's all this stuff and so the question is you know what's canon what's not yeah um you know there certainly were things that were said in the prequels that conflicted with what were said in the earlier star wars movies that came after it you know as far as obi one and and and and Annikin's relationship. So, you know, are they going to try to straighten it out? Do they have a fix for that?

I guess that's what I'm curious about, but they have a fix for them. Right. Let's move over to your other passion, the biggest in your life, I would say, arguably on the pop culture size, D&D. Conflicted feelings about this D&D movie? I mean, I don't,

how is Hugh Grant in a D&D movie before Joe Mangonello is in a D&D movie, Joe? something is wrong in the universe i mean you know look you know the fantasy that i grew up with was was very um i don't know what's the right word um you know i aspired to be conan the barbarian and john millius is conan and conan conan the destroyer like you know say what you will i i just that's what i wanted to be i want to swing a sword i want to I wanted to chop the heads off and give the speeches to calm. My God, you come down to me if you don't hear me.

I said, to hell with you. You know, like I, and then you just, you know, cut somebody's head off and knock them off the horse. Like, that was what I wanted out of fancy, you know? And then some romance, you throw that in. And it's like, we got it. Glory. And so, you know, I, you know, I don't, I don't know if that's what that movie is.

You know what I mean? or if that's what part of fantasy it occupies. You know, there's another side of it where you could say Monty Python and the Holy Grail is a fantasy movie. You know, now it's amazing, but, you know, or how high with Danny McBride, you know, and James Franco, like you just don't know

tonally what they're looking for. And it could go a lot of different ways. I mean, Jumanji is like kind of a derivative of the original D&D cartoon tune from the 80s. Like, that's kind of what it is, basically. And you could go that direction with it. You know, when I, the game that I run on Friday is, it's Conan the Barbarian, it's Excalibur, you know, it's that. I mean, not to say that they're not like moments of hilarity with, with like, you know, Vince Vaughn, you know, and the guys, you know, my brother, he's like a very,

very funny, dry guy. So, you know, there's a lot of laughs, but it's, it's epic and it's scope. Um, you know, um, it just might, it might not be that, you know, have you tried to get Arnold into your D&D game? I don't think Arnold would be, you know, but you know, I don't, I don't know if Arnold, I mean, Arnold would get it. Arnold's like whip smart. So there's no question as to whether Arnold's intellect would hold up, like 100%. Um, but like, you know, well, there, there actually was a Conan world in Dungeons and Dragons. There was a Conan realm that you could go to. Like there was kind of Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms and then Dragonlance. And then there was Conan.

And I actually just recently, over COVID, I've been tracking down all of a lot of really rare modules to create a library out of reference material. And I have all the Conan modules. And some of them actually have photos of Arnold that they cleared and had on the cover. So I could make Arnold a Conan the Barbarian. I would like to rage I will destroy you or crush my enemies you know I mean that would be

fucking epic who do you text with more Arnold or Paul Rubens I feel like this is Paul Rubens is a texter so so Paul Paul is always sending me like on my birthday

I will get messages like videos all day long Thanksgiving he'll have like 50s families like stuffing a turkey like it's hilarious That sums you up, I think, in a nutshell, the fact that you've become besties with Pee-Wee and Arnold. The polarity. Well, my bachelor party, my bachelor party, I was sitting between Peewee and Arnold, Paul and Arnold.

And then they started talking about like 80s Hollywood stories, and it was unbelievable. A bunch of the stuff we've discussed, shopwifters you produced, you and Nick have your own production company. what's the what do you guys what's the mandate right now having a few of these under your belt what are you looking to do is it expressly stuff for you or what's that you know what's the what are you trying to do um i mean to be honest with you like i've always wanted to show run i've always wanted to run a show if there was the right science fiction property or fantasy property, let's say. I can honestly say that

that either A, I know more than any other human being on the planet about it, or B, you give me a year, and I will know as much as any other human being on a planet about it. So, you know, there's a thing like, I think with fantasy, and I think you'd probably

agree with me because you're a fan. You've always been a fan of the genre even when it wasn't mainstream or popular, but, you know, it needs to be made it needs to be created by somebody with fantasy in their bones. You need it in your bones. Yeah.

And that doesn't mean that you're like so nerdy that you can't communicate with other humans. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, you know, you need a good feel for what an audience wants, obviously. You know, but like it needs to be in your bones and you need to love it.

I think all too often the formula is let's go find people who don't have it in their bones because they're on our list of who's hot right now and they take a box and they wind up making something that is completely off to the core audience of people who love it and I am one of those people who love it. So I always thought that that would,

a showrunner would be a good job for me because I love it so much, I would be working, I'd be there before everybody came in and I'd be the last one to leave. And, you know, I would, I think that would wind up on screen. Would you want to act in something that you're show running or does it feel like?

as long as it doesn't interfere with the story, then yes. I mean, the other side of it is like there are certain roles and tropes and things that I think I understand on a certain level or what is to be expected of that within a fantasy setting. I think that helps. So, I mean, you kind of get to a point where you're like, well, we need a big six-foot-five guy who can swing a sword convincingly. And, you know, then you're like, okay, let's get him.

You know, like, why wouldn't I? Sure, sure, sure. I know a guy. I see him in the mirror every day. Yeah, exactly. It does it feel like in your, as you've been developing things and doing meetings and whatever, there's more of an appetite. It seems like, you know, in the wake of Game of Thrones and the wake of all the streamers and like just like hungry for content, now is the time for whether specifically what you're talking about or generally what you're talking about, about launching kind of new fantasy, sci-fi extended series projects. Yeah, absolutely. I think it is,

you know, not the final frontier, but it's certainly the next frontier. Like, that currently is what is being heavily gentrified within the entertainment industry. You know, I think we got into a technology level where we can make dragons look amazing. And we can do things, you know, the giants in Game of Thrones were like such a marvel that people don't talk about, but like they're human, but they're bigger and it looked perfect. So you can get there. And I think the mainstream has been fed fantasy, whether they knew it or not.

you know, when return to the king wins best picture and two towers and fellowship could have also both won, you know, and you're talking about 17 Oscars and billions and billions of dollars, an extended cut that's better than the original. Like, people have seen it. They know it. They've, you know, and then when you get into the Game of Thrones, now you're hitting a very highbrow, HBO, you know, crowd with dragons and magic. Like, they've been, been indoctrinated, whether they even know it or not. And so I think the problem is then, well, then all the bean counters swoop in and it's like, where do we get the next one? Or how do we copy that? And, you know, there, I just hope that like, you know, like I said,

enough people with it in their bones are in charge of these things because there's some amazing properties that all are getting snatched up. And I just hope that there's enough people working on them that they can bring these like amazing stories that I love, like Eisenhorn. And, you know what I mean? Like, there's just really great stuff that's getting snatched up that I never thought would get snatched up that is. And I just hope that that kind of care goes into it. And like I said, it's like, it's always been my dream from the time I was a kid.

People were surprised that I've gone up an actor who knew me as a kid. Right. They're like, we thought you'd be a director or somebody running the show or moving all the people and pieces around because that's what you did as a kid with your friends. Yeah, well, it's what you're doing every Friday night as DM. Right, right. Someone give this guy $200 million in 10 episodes and he'll do it. Well, and I think, you know, funnily enough, I think me running that game on Friday,

a lot of it was like getting those juices flowing and getting, getting that back up the speed or, you know, kind of shifting from being only an actor, getting back into like telling the story and laying the tracks down and, you know, awakening those muscles that I used to work out as when I was younger. I was going to say maybe we'll save this for next time because I feel like it's a whole other conversation the comfort movie thing I've been doing with people but I feel like we've had the kind of conversation that has like I feel like we put a nice bow on it

so we'll save the Godfather talk for next time I was intrigued by your pick man because having said all the fantasy stuff you went a different route but let's save it because we're going to talk every once in a while I just will say that like the other day I will tease this is our this is our end credits teaser

but you know I was working out the other day and um you know i had a little gym in the basement and um and i saw godfather was on like bravo and i was like oh you know and put it on while i was working out and it's like just sucked in well yeah and i'm so it's something that i will put on while i'm working out if i have in the background it's comforting like i part of the family you're one of the corleone you yeah when you're sicilian this is your birthright this is a part of you that you understand No, I'm surprised. I've been asking for comfort movies for about a year since all this insanity began and no one's chosen the Godfather until you. So you've reserved it for next time you've

reserved it. I'm not going to let somebody steal it from you. And then we can debate why Godfather not Godfather 2 and then we can have the real heated debate about Godfather 3 and if it's even a worthy Godfather movie. To be continued. Well, I need to watch the new I need to watch the new Coppola rearrangement. You should check it out. There's not a ton different but it's still a good excuse to revisit. Oh, is, I mean, three. Nobody talks about three. Oh, see, this is one of our, this is going to be one of our good debates. We're really teasing because I have, I like a lot of three. It's not, it's not the same level, of course, but it's, it's an okay movie. I'll give you two. We could argue, well, I mean, look, there is, there is a, there is like a, you know,

no, that's a good. Elders debate. Like, we need to get the months from, and, and from India to go to Sri Lanka and meet in a summit meeting to discuss the merits of one versus two. But, um, I'm not going to die on the hill for three. Don't worry, but I'm just saying it's a watchable, decent movie. Let's remind folks, shoplifters of the world, people are going to be able to check it out this month. Later on in March, right, finally? That's right.

March 26, VOD, you can get it. If you're Smith-Span, you'll love it. If you're a young person, you'll love it. If you're of our generation, nostalgic 1887, you'll love it. If you're a metalhead, you'll love it. There you go. And you won't be able to avoid this other thing this four-hour behemoth from Zach Snyder's amazing brain,

Zach Snyder's Justice League, about to drop. Yeah, there's a lot to chew on in that one. And who knows what comes of it? I'm really, like I said, I'm really intrigued, man. I'm optimistic, too. I love Zach. Obviously, I'm, you know, working with Zach on this in this other universe and would love to continue working with that.

I just, I love Zach. You know you're a good guy that's worked with him. They love him to a man. He's just, for a guy that's like so steeped in visuals, like he seems to be an actor's director. Actors love him. He's an actor's director, but the other side of it is like,

you know, like his mind, like if you watch that trailer, I mean, the trailer's out, it's, you can't help but go, oh my God,

at the end of it, just the shots. You know he's going to make you look cooler than you've ever looked in your life. I think for an actor, it's like, wow, like please,

like let's just keep shooting all day. Like, what else you got? What are you thinking about? Like, let's go with it. So there's an excitement, I think, to working with him because he is, the way he sees things is a hundred times cooler than I could ever envision it. Zach Snyder's coming in the Barbarian coming soon.

Yes. Thanks, buddy. Always good to catch up. I appreciate it. It's great to see you, man. I wish we lived next door to each other and had an underground tunnel between our home. It's a long tunnel. But, hey, we're getting on the better side of it.

I'm sure we'll see each other. At least this year. That's my hope, at least. All right, man. All right, thanks, buddy. I'll see you soon. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Goodbye, summer movies. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another,

Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Borgonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2. And Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell.

Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.