Happy Sad Confused - Joel Edgerton

Episode Date: February 1, 2016

Joel Edgerton is a hard working actor and filmmaker. His 2015 directorial debut The Gift, which he also wrote, co-produced and co-starred in has been met with critical acclaim. Joel joins Josh this week to talk about how it was a miracle that his latest film Jane Got a Gun even got made, working with George Lucas on Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and his movie swag. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey, guys, today's episode of Happy Seg and Fused is brought to you by Howl.fm. You've heard me talk about this before, and damn it, I'm talking about it again, because if you're a listener to Happy Second Fused, then you need Howl. That's where it's at, guys. It's like Netflix for podcasts with Howl Premium. You get exclusive access to more than 120 hours of Howl originals, featuring exclusive miniseries, comedies, and documentaries with new episodes every week. Plus, you get all the archives from WTF with Mark.

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and use the promo code happy for a one month free trial of Howl Premium. Hey, guys, and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. This is my podcast. This might be the last one, because I'm dying. I have a little bit of a cold, not to be overly dramatic, but this could be it. Sammy, why are you laughing? Because, like, you don't, I've seen you, like, ten times sicker.

But this time it's different. Yeah, because you can't hear. I can't hear. This is a strange, I don't know if it's related to my colt. I think it's both, mostly my right ear. Do you want me to scream at it really loud? No, I don't. I feel like there's, I don't want to get too gross, but I feel like it's, I feel like

it's simply like clogged. I feel like I have something in my ear. You should just, no, you don't have to go to the doctor. Just take a safety pin. Oh, God. And go in there. There could be like an entire Milky Way in there, like an entire, like, candy bar. When you were a candy, you used to shame.

I knew I should have. I knew I should have. Didn't everybody just keep food in their ears just for a backup when they were hungry? I was never told not to do that. I'm going to be fine. I'm going to pull through because I'm strong. And I have to be strong for all of us. The listeners need you.

The last time I heard you sick. Yeah. Was when we were doing movie awards takeover. And we were doing train wreck. Yeah. We were at a bar called the Pink Kitten, I believe. That was disgusting little bar, yeah, by Judd Apatow's request. Well, to be fair, yes, it was next to Judd Apatow's office and we were taping for convenience.

Yes. We were with Bill Hater and Judd Apatow and you the whole time were just like, okay, guys, do you? You prefer, like, your whole voice was all messed up. That's mean. And it was, no, it wasn't mean. We were worried about you. I'll send you the link. At MTV Movie Awards this past year, I woke up the morning of movie awards.

I was co-hosting the pre-show, and I woke up with Pink Eye. That was another fun day. It is disgusting. I didn't tell it. I was going to say, feel like you didn't publicize that. No, I didn't want to freak out the producers or whatever. The producers, what about the talent in his hands you're shaking with pink guys? I probably shouldn't have licked the face of every talent that I interviewed that day.

Or just like rubbed your eye all over them. Let me just rub this crusty mildew off of me. Shailene Woodley's, like, why is your eye buzzing? Chris Pratt hasn't been the same since. No, this is typical, though, because I just came back from Sundance, and Sundance was a blast. Oh, we get it. No, but it always, it takes a toll. It's like there's something, it's the altitude, it's the schedule, it's all of it.

Do you want to give us your Rosent Thorn? My Rosenthorn, in terms of a film. I saw. Sundance. Listen. I don't know. Well, I saw six films. I would say to keep an eye out for a film called Sing Street, which is a very sweet movie

from the director of Once and Begin Again, which I found very charming. And that's already bought by Weinstein, so that'll come out, I think, relatively soon, maybe. I also really like Taika Waititi. I just like to say his name. Takeo Waiti's new directing effort. He was part of the flight of the Concord's Gang. And he did the great what we do in the... The Shadows last year, which if you have not seen, you should see.

I see Jenna's very excited in the corner, silently excited. People are going to think Jenna's like your cat, is in the corner of the office. Oh, she's a human being, as far as we know. Anyway, he has a new film called Hunt for the Wilder People, which is super charming and funny with Sam Neal. And, yeah, the interviews were fun. Got to see our buddy Michael Shannon. That was an insane time.

Our good buddy, Mr. Hugh Jackman, always a pleasure. Calm down. caught up with Kristen Stewart that wasn't for an interview it was just sort of like at a party and that was great to see her hang you just hanging just hanging so yeah

Dan Rad Talking about farts Yeah not just because I want to talk about farts But his new movie More than you guys normally talk about farts His new movie is called Swiss Army Man And it is crazy I like really want to see this

It's kind of it's fun I mean I enjoyed it But certainly it's not for everybody It's super out there. Basically, long story short, Paul Dano plays a suicidal dude on a desert island who finds a dead body, Dan Radcliffe, and starts a friendship with this dead man kind of sort of. It's kind of like Michelle Gondry-ish. It's a little bit out there. And yes, there's a ton of fart humor, more than I have ever experienced, and I've experienced my fair share of fart humor.

So prepare yourself for that. I don't think it's got distribution yet, but it will based on... Even if you have to put together. Every penny you have. I would do it. I would do it. I'll take a road show around the country showing Swiss Army Man. So, yes.

So that was Sundance in a nutshell. Always fun. And a bunch of our stuff has been being posted on MTV's Facebook and my Twitter feed. So if you're a curious, check all that out. I should say this week's guest came right back from Sundance and jumped right back into the podcast, Caldron of fun. Hard worker. You are. I know.

Don't dedicate it. Joel Edgerton. is the guest this week. If you don't know Joel Edgerton, I don't know what to tell you. He's a very talented actor, Australian actor,

who came to, he's really come to promise in the last few years thanks to Animal Kingdom, which was an Australian crime film, which is great, but then has kind of like transition to the big Hollywood movies

like Great Gatsby, Warrior, which not enough people saw, which is great. He was in Zero Dark 30, and he's in a new film that he co-wrote and stars in called Jane Got a Gun, which is a Western

with him and Ewan McGregor and Natalie Portman. which is out right now, some context. Great cast. It's a great cast. And it's a really interesting story behind this film. We talk a bunch of out of it. He's pretty frank.

It's all kind of like out in the public. But basically, when this film started shooting, probably a year or two ago, the director, when Ramsey basically quit the production on the first day of shooting, left the production. Meanwhile, Michael Fastbender was playing one role, and Joel Edgerton was playing another role. Fastbender left the production. What ended up happening was Joel Edgerton switched roles with Fastbender. Ewan McGregor came in. Gavin O'Connor, the director of Warrior, came into direct.

Crazy kind of thing. So it's kind of a miracle of this movie actually even exists. And he ended up taking a co-writing credit on it. So it's a... It's his passion project a little bit. Well, I mean, we talk a lot about... Joel is really cool in that not only is he a fine actor, but he is really invested in being a content creator as a writer and director.

He wrote and directed his first feature last year called The Gift, which did really well, started Jason Bateman and Rebecca Hall. So he's one definitely to keep an eye out, not only for as an actor, but as a director. I think he's going to do great things. Not hard on the eyes, too. Or the ears, to be honest. There's a nice little accent there. This is a fun one.

Also, we had to talk Star Wars with him because his film debut, I don't know if it was officially his first film, but the first film that probably anybody saw him in, really, was attack of the clones. He was in the prequels as Uncle Owen, young Uncle Owen. So we talk a bunch about that and he's a forgot a funny story about working with George Lucas on that. So yeah, a really talented actor, really talented guy that you know, thanks to films like Blackmas and

the gift I've talked to a lot in recent years. So it was a real pleasure to welcome Joel into the podcast booth slash my office. And this is not Joel Hanick. talking about, right? No, no, don't talk about Johanna. He hasn't been on the podcast in weeks. Yeah, people don't even remember him anymore. No, it's all about you and me, Sammy, and Silent Jenna in the corner. That's about it. I think it's time to dive in. Please enjoy this conversation with Joel Edgerton. You want to do an Australian accent? It's my Joe Edgerton. Here I am. It's a little cockney. No, I can only do Hugh.

Okay. I can only do Hugh. Here's the real Joe Edgerton. I am, Joel Edgerton. Nope, this time for real, I promise. We're joining mid-rumaging through my office, Mr. Joel Edgerton. Yeah, this is a nerd. I'm in a nerds garage. What do you make of? Do you have a nerd garage yourself?

By the way, a nerd is not a negative word. Oh, no, I'm thrilled. Two nerds in an office. This is the new name of the podcast. Two nerds in a fountain. Do you collect? paraphernalia, ephemera, a movie

swag, whatever? I got swag. I've got kind of, you know, droppings. I call them like droppings from all sorts of movies I've been involved in. With thieving, thievery. It's sort of like whatever fits in your pocket on your way out the door. I've got a left glove and a right glove

one from myself, one from Tom Hardy from Warrior. Nice. From the final fight. A lot of like dried sweat in there. I was going to say, just a jar of collected sweat from you guys. Yeah, like, well, you know, when Tom becomes too busy as an actor and they need to, like, DNA kind of replicate him.

I know where the DNA is. It's in this sweaty glove of his. I've got rings from the gift, which, you know, I've got a box of props from my own movie. Yeah. And what do I find the other? I've got a box of the little kind of, like, tokens at Jennifer Garner and I wrote the wishes for the child in Timothy Green.

Just, just little things, you know. gloves from the thing. Did you grow up a huge movie nerd? A huge thief. A huge thief? Yes. What was the first thing you stole? You could take it either way you want.

My mother's heart. No, I never was a thief at school. I remember I was about to steal something at school. And then I looked around and realized that made a bunch of other kids were all about to steal something. And I was smart enough to realize that the heat was going to come down because everybody was taking stuff in this poor guy's store. and I took everything that I was going to steal and I put it back. Get you. So I almost thieved.

No, so I'm not a thief. I like to keep things. I generally ask, can I keep this? Can I keep that, you know? A lot to talk about. It's been a busy time. I've seen you a lot in the last couple of years. Yeah.

This means work is going well, I think. You've got a lot of good stuff going on. Yeah, I'm living the dream. Someone's going to find out. It's all going to come crashing down at some point. Probably with this interview. It was a good swan song. Feeling relief, excitement that this one's finally getting released out into the world?

Jane Got a gun, was it a tough one? I still don't personally believe that it's being released. Every time we even get close to doing a preview or premiere, stuff happens and with all seriousness, like, you know, recently in November we were going to release the movie in Paris because that's where Natalie's living and the terribly unfortunate attacks happened. Yeah. And then I, and then recently, you know, with the blizzard in New York, I was like, now the snow is conspiring to stop us from releasing the film.

It's, look, it's the most interestingly complicated, uh, story of how a movie got made and managed to survive. And, and like all kind of good, uh, traumatic stories, once a certain amount of time has passed. I mean, you know, if you survive a shark attack, you, It becomes a great story. And Jane Got a Gun is a great story. What was the initial draw of it?

What was the initial, before all the complicated stuff happened? What got you involved in this? Being in a Western. Just the idea of being in a Western and, you know, rekindling my work relationship with Natalie Portman, but in a bigger responsibility. And, you know, the draw at the time was I was, you know, going to play the villain of the movie.

Of course, I, you know, Thanks to good old Fastbender, I've got a promotion. Okay, so let's lay out a little bit. So, Lynn Ramsey, additional director, a fine director, right? Yeah, yeah. You were playing, as you said, a different role, Fastbender was in there. Yeah. So were you a writer on it at that point?

No. So what happened? Give me the however version you can explicate her. For reasons of her own, and for more than one reason, I'm sure Lynn left the process. And, you know, while it didn't look good for her, and there's a bigger, deeper story there in terms of her creative differences, I guess, with producers and what have you. And then so, but she picked a very unfortunate time to leave. It was sort of like the first day.

Day one, yeah. That's an unusual. This doesn't happen that often. You know, can you imagine sort of day one in your trailer and you hear this? It's like, and normally, normally what's on the other end of this, it's like, oh, hey, Joel, do you need a coffee or, you know, are you okay? Or are your cowboy pants fitting okay? Instead, it was like, oh, we have a problem, you know, and that was sort of the beginning

of something very interesting. But, you know, as I said, that, you know, I don't want to throw dirt around, but that was the time that was difficult. But, you know, you have to. choices in that moment. Well, the production had two choices, which is lay down in the dirt or keep riding. I'm going to keep dragging this terrible cowboy analogy as far as I can, right? So the talk of keeping the movie going was the sort of vigilant process of, you know, replacing a director and Gavin O'Connor, who was a collaborator, you know, well,

dear friend of mine and whatever he took to the story and but he'd inherited you know a movie like you know he did he was suddenly like handed a child it was like he's your child like you know rear this child it was like well i need to he needs to make it his own and the the fact that i'm a writer in the process is is a mere byproduct of that that it needed to kind of be the script and the story needed to kind of meet gavin halfway that he was able to even make the movie Give me a sense of the, I mean, again, the very odd circumstance of where suddenly you switch roles and then you have you in playing the role that you were initially prepping for. So you're watching this great actor, this previous collaborator doing his own version of what you already had in your brain. Yeah.

And you're meanwhile trying to figure your way out into a role that's just kind of been foisted on you. Yeah. That's a lot going on in a brain. Well, the good news was the, you know, my, my, the old switcheroo from, from me playing the villain to playing the, the, the, the, the. the kind of, you know, foil to Natalie or hero, I guess, of the lack of better words,

happened two or two and a bit months ahead of production beginning. So I hadn't quite formulated or solidified, you know, any approach to playing the other character. And it gave me enough time to not feel like I was, you know, running to the altar trying to put on my tuxedo in the car.

You know what I mean? Like, I was, I was prepped enough to know what I was going to do. And I certainly hadn't prepped enough to sit there tapping Ewan McGreg around the shoulder. You know, you and I was going to do it like this. But, you know, if you want to do it that way, your rodeo, whatever. Yeah, yeah. No temptation to add in the strangest, most unlikely Star Wars reunion perhaps ever. No midi-corian references, no Star Wars inside gags that you put in the script.

Well, I mean, there was definitely talk of that. It would be, you know, pretty funny at some point if I was going through. I think there's a shot of me going through. Just, there's a sequence where Natalie's, I'm telling you to fire this heavy pistol owned by her husband. And she can't make a shot. And then I make some dig remark at her. And then she picks up a, I think what's it called a 30-30. It's like a, you know, sling action rifle.

Right. And blows the handle off an axe. And while she's loading. up that rifle, I'm going through stuff that she's purchased for the sake of prepping for a siege and the sticks of dynamite. It would have been pretty funny if there was just a sort of a, you know, very quick shot of a light to have amongst that. For nowhere, it's going to pop up. Just for any, like, diehard fans, can they go, ooh, what was that? So, as I said, it's been a busy time. I mean, the gift, congratulations again, man. That's a great, a great achievement of what you were able to

achieve in that one. And you mentioned, you know, you mentioned, you know, collaborating with Gavin in a writing capacity on this. And one of the things that I have appreciated in your career is you've been creating and generating your own content. You've been, you know, working on short films with your brother for a while. You've, you've endeavored to kind of keep a lot of different kinds of irons going in the fire. And that resulted in the gift your directing debut this past year. Yeah. Was that, I mean, how much of that was sort of happenstance and like how much it was calculated like I should along the way as I'm you know trying to get going as an actor I should generate my own material and just have other opportunities available or how much of it was just

I'm a creative guy I want to do it all I've always been writing and I realized that even through school and high school primary school and high school I was writing stuff it wasn't necessarily movies but it was sketches and short stories so I've been interested in creating like putting words on page pages for a long time and uh and the the beginnings of being a filmmaker was really not happenstance but but but a kind of a concerted effort just to get myself to a place where people would give me work and my brother and I looking to get people to employ us by making a short film and go here look here's me being an actor and here's my brother he's look at him he's doing stunts on a film and like this like a business card like a calling card you know

and through that we got involved in we actually realized how much we enjoyed writing and creating and editing and all that all those different elements of film makers so we kept doing it so now writing is a passion it's not it's not like a means to an end at all but it's it's a means to an end in that I have characters that are in my head that I'd like to get out or characters I like to play or an idea of a feeling or a set of circumstances I'd like to explore on film that I could either wait for people to write a script that's going to come my way, which you could wait a long time. Or, you know, like with a gift, for instance, I was curious about playing an awkward,

misunderstood, like, creepy character. It was like that was where that came from. Sure. So that's where it's at now And now I really love directing a movie And as long as it's got enough time to ferment And it's a measured enough process of writing And development

I feel like I'm ready to do it again I just don't want to rush it But but I would love to be making another movie By the end of the year or early next year I mean it felt like At the time in hearing about it when it was coming down the pipe and eventually coming out, it felt like, oh, that's not the usual kind of first film that someone, like, puts out as their calling card as a director. Do you know what I mean?

Like, and I appreciate that. Like, it was a psychological thriller. It was, it was, it was, but done very well. And frankly, one that we don't really see done well in the last 15 or 20 years, kind of a throwback kind of a thing. Again, like, is that sort of just where your sensibility was at at the time, or sort of the kind of films that you weren't seeing? It's definitely an interest in mind is psychological thrillers and thrillers and, you know, deceptive kind of like characters with deception behind their motivations and duplicitous characters. I mean, I'd be curious, I guess, what is that typical movie that an actor makes?

I mean, it's, you know, I guess you could say that quite often actors making a movie, it's very much focused on performance or an attempt to, you know, dredge out deep emotions and sometimes it's so focused on that, it loses a sense of cinema. Right. Sometimes cinematographers approaching a movie, it becomes so much about cinema that you lose a little bit.

You lose a little bit about the human interaction. So, you know, I just was very mindful approaching movies. Like, it's very much about performance. It's very much about that stuff. But I also wanted to retain and make sure that it,

it was a piece of cinema as well, given we only had four and a half. million dollars it wasn't ever going to be you know dancers with the wolves or anything like that but but within the limitations to make sure that I kept reminding myself I was making a movie that it was a piece of cinema that it wasn't just about

um come sort of you know a self-fulfilling kind of like acting you know I mean there's credit to be given when a genre clinical genre film is done well because frankly most of them aren't done so well and then you have a little great cinematic pedigree behind it but you also have some interesting acting going on as well you had it all in that one now so talk to you a little bit about

like growing up into movies into pop culture just like were you into everything or what was your what was your passion growing up it's funny like I feel like I've got a really good uh you know understanding of movies through just being a fan I never sit around and pick them apart I never analyze them, I won't overly, you know, repeat watch movies. In many ways, I don't feel like I watch enough movies now. As a person who works in movies, like, for some reason, I don't find enough time to watch them. But I do love them, I appreciate them, and, and, but I wouldn't call myself a cinephile. I just am someone who sort of wanted to be an actor and started in

the theater and then just getting got more and more interested in in getting in front of a camera and once I did I felt more comfortable doing that than being on stage was um was was was it school theater at first like when was the first time you got on stage when was the first kind of yeah it's through school uh and uh and then I saw professional actors in theater when I was sort of deeper in the high school and I went on an exchange program but the exchange program was like going to live in Texas with a bunch of other young Australian people would put together a play

and we performed a play and that made me feel interested in the idea that I could be an actor and travel and see the world because we went to Texas and performed at high schools and then after being inspired by watching actors at the Opera House in Sydney

I was like oh maybe that's like within my realm of possibility I could do that Sure. And then the idea of going to drama school came into my head. And it was through all those different processes. It was starting to then, you know, work on that same stage at the opera house that I'd seen actors on.

Right. I started to feel like I was achieving something getting closer to bigger things. And then, you know, working on film started to happen, partly because we were making our own. What was the, I'm curious about the Texas experience. Was that culture shock at the time to go from? Yeah, but you know, when you're a kid, you like, you like the hungry caterpillar, you just eat anything. Yeah.

And you're not fearful about stuff. It's like, it was like going into a whole new world, but it was a world that I'd sort of fantasized about. Because, you know, when you're a young Australian person, as a young Australian, we got so much American culture that that's what you were. Sure. Dying to sort of get amongst, you know.

I remember the, I remember very vividly, and just talking about it out loud, the feeling of being in. San Francisco and going to my, going to a store where you could buy baseball caps and whatever and buying a New York Yankees baseball cap and, you know, buying this, the cliched things, the kind of typical things like buying the number 23, you know, Jersey, Michael Jordan jersey and buying high top basketball shoes. It was like, oh, America has everything, you know, going to a grocery store and seeing

that there weren't just like, you know, eight types of breakfast cereal. They were, in fact, like, 85 million. You need 85 million to choose from. That's just the peanut butter flavor was. Like, you know, and drinking Coke, you know, like classic Coke. It was American culture.

That's what we were obsessed with. It was everything we watched on TV, which is also why I think I've said to you in the past, like why I think American accents are very much accessible to Australians. We were just hearing that. shit all the time. So were the, I mean, you mentioned being on the stage where others that you admired had been, but also being an appreciator of American culture. So who were like, who were the giants in your brain that you were kind of trying to emulate or aspire to? Was it American actors or Australian

actors or both? On the stage, when I seriously had the idea they were Australian stage actors, but then, you know, we, we had Mel Gibson and a few Australian actors starting to kind of go over who were closer to my generation of Russell Crowe and Guy Pearce and Nicole Kidman. But, you know, the actors that I watched growing up were, you know, you got one of them on your wall here. I remember, you know, Michael J. Fox. But the action heroes was Sylvester Sloan and Arnold Schwarzenegger. And of course, Harrison Ford was a big part of my growing up. And it wasn't until I went to drama school that then, you know, it was sort of uncool. that that was your, that was your only understanding of cinema.

So then it was like, oh, I better catch up on, you know, the proper cinema of 70s. And, but then you course, how could you not fall in love with being someone interested in acting? And then you go, watch Dog Day afternoon for the first time. Yeah, like, this was, this was the stuff that was going when I was just like, you know, learning a finger paint. Right. And, uh, and learning about that and being introduced to actors like Gene Hackman. Al Pacino and of course De Niro, but that whole swath of that time, which was about drama and

where leading men weren't, you know, didn't bench press 400 pounds, but they were just interesting psychological actors, yeah, Donald Sutherland, yeah. So I'm curious also, I mean, you mentioned, I mean, as you've progressed and started to do kind of some of those kind of hero roles, those kind of like leading man kind of things, do you appreciate more what someone like Harrison Ford was able to make look effortless. You know what I mean? Like, as you're saying, maybe in drama school, he wasn't getting the credit he deserved, but I think there are a few that can do that and do it as well.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, I think Harrison Ford was definitely getting the credit he deserved. You know, and he had an incredibly diverse career. I know there was certain things that he was known for. But then, yeah, you think of something like Mosquito Coast or Witness. Yeah, witness and, you know, but there's something also that he could do that very few actors, I think, have even managed to achieve since, which is to be very much in the real world psychologically as his portrayal of a character, yet in a slightly fantastical setting like Indiana Jones, to be in these diabolically sort of tricky situations, to show a real sense of human fear that an audience could connect with.

still managed to get out of the situation in a way that didn't seem like he'd already predestined his heroic escape. Right. And so you could feel connected to him, even though it was a fantasy world, perhaps, of Indiana Jones. I agree. That's what people forget. I think about Indiana Jones is he's, like, battered and bruised throughout, and he feels it, and he's moaning and groaning.

Yeah, and he faces a wall of kind of assailants and realizes, and you get this feeling like, how the fuck am I going to get out of the situation and you know and and and then add an ingredient or a pinch of humor to that as well which was the result but not the not the kind of look at me be funny attitude and even like watching the most recent Star Wars you know and there's a lot of great young actors in that no I was really admiring of so much about that movie but when he arrived you're like that's what makes these movies work yeah is the ability to kind of grounded a month. Yeah, and it's that

his girl Friday banter between him and Leah that used to exist which if that wasn't part of the original Star Wars you wonder whether it would have been as good. Sure.

So where were you at in your career whether on stage or on television in Australia when Star Wars happened when you got Attack of the Clones? It was 26.

When I got the call about getting the job on that film, I was 20, it was my 26th birthday present kind of. I was, I was actually doing a workshop for Hamlet at the Sydney Theatre Company, which we were doing just like a rehearsed kind of workshop that we were going to show to some people. And I got that call and it was like the two separate worlds. It was like, you know, a movie about the future of galaxy far far away.

And then I was doing like a 400 year old play, classic play on stage. So, you know, that's where I was at with my. life. And I was also at a point when I was really like buffeted between the idea of, you know, am I a stage actor? Can I work in films? Is America even a possibility? Right. Which it wasn't like it is now for young, younger people who are coming up out of Australia going, do I sit around and wait for someone to make a movie and hopefully put me in it? Or do I just go to America and get a job? Yeah. And there's a lot of these young Australians who just go straight there, like within a few weeks, they're in a TV show.

It's almost like that show, you know, remember that show V? I loved V. You know, where everybody's like, the aliens are kind of like... They're amongst us? They're amongst us, yeah. If you consider Australians as aliens in the TV land of America, there's so many people that you don't even realize are Australian. And you can do our accent, you can blend in.

They are amongst us. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's eating a rap as well. Dude, I drove down the Sunset Boulevard one day and I was like, within a sort of five-minute stretch, I'd seen like a good 10 Australians on billboards for new TV shows. It's crazy.

Yeah. So what was there an audition or did you put yourself on tape for Star Wars? What was the process? I'm curious. Robin Gerland, who I adore, was the casting agent for George at the time. And... Did you know what you were going in for? Yeah, I knew what I was going in for.

I can't remember what the pages were. I think it was just some... I can't remember whether we read a scene. seen from the old stars or whatever. And I remember just sort of obsessing over photos, you know, of the original Uncle Owen and just going, can I look like, is that me in like 30, 40 years time? I get that haggard and angry at the world. Yeah.

And drink blue milk. And I just remember marvelling after I got the job going the amount of stars it needed to align for me to even end up in that universe. The fact that I looked enough like him, the fact that they were shooting the movie in Australia that I happen to be an actor that of the right sort of, you know, for lack of better words, pedigree at the time, that a casting agent would even go, Joel's a person you should see. And then I did the right job at the time, I guess. And it worked out great. And it was like, how weird is that that it even, that I end up in Star Wars? Was, I'm curious, because I, I mean,

I got a chance to talk to the cast of Force Awakens. Recently, I talked to, like, Harrison infamously, he had all these crazy things to say about Georgia's direction, you know, about like, you know, you can type the ship, but you can't say it, that all that, that famous, um, quote of his, what was your experience of, of saying the dialogue? Did he say that to George? Yeah. You can type the ship, but you can't say it. Yeah. Yeah, that's his famous line.

I do have one George, uh, direction story, which was kind of like, it was more about me being a nerve-wracking kind of moment of being in, being in Tadouin, as in like, you know, the actual town of Tadouin where the exterior of the water towers set was. Actually, no, it was the interior stuff that down below, which are these hotels that actually exist in Tunisia. And they're dug into the ground, these sort of tunnels dug into the ground because it insulates and makes them cooler for desert living. So he would have gone there back then and just sort of seen these hotels and going, wow, the rest of the world doesn't know this is true. This could look like an alien sort of in the habitation. So we were down there and I was doing the scene where I go out to shake Anakin's hand

and, you know, sort of the meeting of Anakin and Padma and me. And I remember thinking, this is kind of like a guy coming out of a garage, a car garage to meet some people. And every time I ever saw that in a movie, the guy would be like wiping his hands on a rag, right? And they gave me this tool, which was sort of sadly looked a bit like a lightsab, but it was really just a screw job, whatever, like, you know, Uncle I was using. And I remember thinking, I want a rag, but I guess I should ask the director. And so I said to an AD, like, can I speak to George?

And he goes, yeah, George will speak to George. And I was like, oh, no, this is like, and I could hear this sort of radio chain of command going. And I realized, I remember that George was like 400 meters away under a tent in the desert. at where they could get reception to watch the monitors. And he was like, all right. And he's like, George is coming to see you. And I was like, oh, no.

George is like, George Lucas is going to walk 400 meters to see me and I'm going to be out of my ear. I'm going to be on the first plane home. I was like, all I want is a rag. He's like, I'm like, I'm like, yeah. And he comes out to me and I said, oh, hey, so I was just thinking, you know, no, no, no, and I start tripping over myself with words, you know, I was like, maybe out of rag.

And he just looked at me in silence. And then I thought I better tell him why. Yeah, because I'm coming out of the thing And maybe I've got to meet them And I'm going to shake my hand It was like maybe I should clean my hands And he just looks at me and he goes Sure

And walks 400 meters back to the tent I felt terrible There's a fire drill going on behind us We're going to handle it We're going to I think we're going to handle it right? Is that we're on fire We've heated the building up Anyway, sorry for that incredibly long winded

Terrible boring story But I remember just sweating buckets And it was like sweat on sweat Because I was in the desert already sweating And then my sweat started sweating Just hear him go Sure And that was my

That was also my kermit the frog impersonating And that did sound a little Sure Sure Sure Did it feel like Was there a career bump after that Did it feel like after Star Wars

You were suddenly In the mix of different things Yeah but here's what I did Right This is the cunning maneuver of a young actor in Hollywood is, you know, somehow I realized there was a con just waiting to happen there,

which is like using the shroud of secrecy against itself to channel that into my own power and energy of World Force, my own using of the force, was to go, right, no one knows anything about the script. I've been cast in the movie And they didn't know who you were cast as They didn't know that They had so many special effects to do

I did the calculation And I knew that there was roughly 18 months That I had up my sleeve To go on door knock in Hollywood And really like Not lie But but by a mission

Kind of lying Just letting people think what they wanted to think In the new Star Wars movie Star Wars movie Open your door Come and maybe What else do you want me in? And he said okay to it

Yeah, what else do you want me to be a two-minute walk on rolling? And I used that opportunity to go there and just do some meetings and get an agent and all that stuff. I mean, it wasn't deceptive. It was just interesting how when you're in a movie of that scale, suddenly you just heard all the doors open. And I was like, well, I'm going to walk through those doors if they're going to open. And then I, you know, that led to me getting a job in King Arthur,

which wasn't just like, here's a job. I mean, I really worked my ass off for that. I actually employed some of my old Shakespeare skills to get that job. And when I knew that I was almost maybe to get a job on King Arthur, I remember sending them a tape with a bit of Henry V on it. And that sort of, I think it really kind of tipped the balance, you know, for me. And, you know, anyway. Have you become kind of like philosophical as you go on?

And, like, you know, you obviously always give you your hardest effort. And sometimes it's out of your hands, King Arthur that doesn't resonate with an audience and maybe in the way everybody wanted or the thing, etc. I mean, everybody has these things where like on paper, it looks great and then for whatever reason along the lines, it doesn't work for audience. Does it sting less at this point when it doesn't work? Or are you able to move on quickly? It stings less as an actor, I think, in general. I mean, you know, you dive into everything with the greatest possible intention. You know, for example, the thing was a good example. I thought the thing was such a great idea. If you're

ever going to do a sort of prequel to a movie that was such a great idea is to what what happened at the Norwegian camp you know and and yeah I mean you know it's disappointing if people don't go and see the movie I don't care about how much money someone else makes or doesn't make out of the movie because you don't really sharing in that profit and and money's not the big you know reason to make movies I think but but I remember going into the gift just thinking that one I really care about because that's my DNA all over it. And if that doesn't work, that means I don't work. That means, you know, I don't, I failed or something, you know. But, but so I very much cared about whether it either had a nice critical response or maybe

it did well at the box office. And for the fact that it did both those things, I couldn't have had a better, that couldn't have been a better outcome for me. But, but you felt the nerves going into that opening weekend going, oh, God, I've never cared about something so much before. And frankly, we've seen a lot of, whether it's actors or directors in their first effort, be kind of one and done. You don't get that many shots. There's definitely that feeling like you don't, you know, that you're not going to be afforded a ton of opportunities. And on the same hand, I mean, something like Warrior, which I don't know what the box office the result was but who cares because everybody that's seen it loves that movie and I'm sure

it follows you around to the stay there are those ones where you go okay I know that everybody else is wrong yeah you know and you and at the time I remember thinking that film wasn't marketed as well as it could have been Tom and I weren't really that big on people's radars at the time so so they you know that was our own sort of lack of star power sort of situation. But I think there was a better way to market that film, with all respect to those involved. But I remember thinking at the time, everybody's wrong. And you know that if people don't see that movie now, they're going to see it. One day they'll see it. And social media is there to remind you every now and then that people give you an electronic sort of tap on the

shoulder and they go, I can't believe I haven't seen this movie until now, but it's already one of my favorite films. And Waria just keeps giving us that tap on the shoulder all the time. Is collaborating with someone like Tom, who is obviously one of the best actors working today. He's also kind of insane in the best possible way, I think. He's an eccentric. He's kind of out there. Did you have to kind of key into sort of Tom's frequency? Is he sort of on his own point? Am I being fair to him and saying he's a bit of an eccentric? Or what? I think everybody's a bit eccentric. I mean, I've got all sorts of stories about everybody that I will that I will keep to myself

and pass aloud at the right time but generally most things will go to my grave you know all I'll say is that some of the most wonderful actors are who they are because there's a certain you know

personality at work or you know or a wonderful insanity that makes them special and unique I always had that. When I worked in the theater, there was a few actors I worked with.

I was like, wow, there's some sort of rhythm to you that is so unusual. But it makes you very special. You know, so, you know, and there's a handful of people I've worked with on film who like that. And you kind of, you get excited every time that they got something that they've just done because you're like, I know I'm going to watch something that's better than average. It's like, look at Mr. Michael Shadden on the wall. He's one of them. Exactly.

You think you come to know what you're going to expect from certain actors and you're usually right. But other people just constantly throw curve balls and surprise you. And certain filmmakers do it too. And, you know, I think they're the most exciting actors to watch. So in the last few years, as I've gone to talk to you more and more, as you're in these higher profile films, I mean, you're both doing great projects. You're also always in the mix for these great projects, too. I'm sure you're like, it seems like you're meeting or auditioning for, like, super high profile. franchises and all that. Is the auditioning and meeting process still enjoyable? Is it fraught

with tension when you're meeting on like superhero films and franchises and all of that? I mean, is this kind of where you want it to be? Is this, give me a sense of sort of like where you're at right now in negotiating that? I don't know. It's sort of weird. Just one day you'll get a phone call. It's like someone wants you do this movie and you're like, wow, that's all right. And then that suddenly turns the steers your life in that direction for the following year and and you realize too that that every choice you make steers you life in a direction that is irreversibly shifted forever too because that turn into say you know say you go after new Orleans to shoot some movie you're going to meet people there that are

going to be in your life forever it's going to cause you to get a job from that that is going to change your life forever you you know those experiences become kind of etches on your face and etches in your life, I guess, that it never changed. But the meeting process and how work comes about, I have no idea. It's fascinating to me. Recently, I was in, I was in Paris, and I went and met up with Luke Besson. I've never met him before, and I've been a fan of his for a while, lots of stuff that he's made.

And, you know, it's just interesting. He's like, he really loved Exodus. And it's like, it's funny when certain directors have gone, I loved you for this, or I loved you for that, or, you know, I've been wanting to meet you because I saw you on stage. So you never know what causes the impression as well that leads five years later to someone putting you in a movie. Well, and also, as you say, like, I don't know if you knew Jeff Nichols before you did a night special, but then clearly that then leads to another film loving. Like, clearly that relationship that worked out and you worked on two successive films. Yeah, and that's what I mean, I would hope that the future is like.

constant revisits, you know, revisitations with certain directors. Yeah. Because it always, you know, that shorthand is inevitably going to make for a more interesting work experience. And Jeff and I will work together again, I'm sure, and Gavin O'Connor and I worked together, David Meshaw, my brother, you know. When you like people, it just like, you know, you may as well keep working together. David was David Michaud who obviously you worked with on Animal Kingdom mentioned to me a while back that you guys were working on some kind of like giants was it a swords and sandals kind of like epic kind of?

Yeah we've written a kind of a modernized well not a modernized a kind of a Henry 4 and Henry 5th as a movie but you know period film but with our own dialogue so I mean with all respect to Shakespeare I feel like saying, let's chuck these words away. What are these words? Chucked in. But just, you know, because it's sort of, you know,

for lack of better words, too, more of a kind of a Game of Thrones meets Shakespeare. And only in that, why say that as in, you could watch Game of Thrones and understand what's going on. I feel like with complete deference to Shakespeare, there is something that happens when even the most, intelligent people what Shakespeare is that that they feel stupid. Yeah. Because, you know,

he kind of, he does the kind of roundabout version of telling you simple things. So we just wanted to. You're cutting out the middle, man. Yeah. Let's let the audience understand exactly what's going on. And not just some people, but everybody. Yeah. So where's that one at? Well, David's, David's cutting a war machine right now that he just shot with Brad Pitt. Right, yeah. And they've got a little way to go on that. So hopefully we're going to make that soon. We'll see.

I mean, it's a slightly expensive movie to make. And, you know, we've taken our own artistic license as well as infused a lot of kind of real, real history in there that Shakespeare had avoided. Right. But ultimately, anyone who knows Henry VIII knows that it's not exactly, you know, it's not like a rocky ending. It's not like, you know, it's got an ironic sort of, you know, victorious and yet sort of bitter sort of ending. So, you know, when you put that into the business machine of Hollywood, it's not exactly a home run. So, you know, we, you know, things have to be made at a price. And I even hate that I'm talking about business right now.

While I'm doing it, I'm beating my head. I'm caving my own head in with a cash register. Are you interested in, like, helming a big studio film? Yeah, I mean, I'd like to creak my way towards it. You're probably in the mix a little bit, I would think. The thing about, I think the thing about movies is, you know, like, if you have the right schedule, I think everything's manageable. You know, the idea of climbing Everest by standing at base camp and just staring at it and

going, I'm going to climb that mountain, it's terrifying. But if you're doing it sort of rope by rope and foothold by foothold, and you're focusing on that 10 yards ahead of you each day, you will eventually get there. And so I'm not scared of making a big movie. As long as I have the right resources around me and the right amount of time and the schedule, I think it's a manageable thing.

It's just as long as story is not lost or character is not lost for the sake of scale and spectacle, otherwise I wouldn't want to do it. As we approach the finish line and I let you go into your fun day of press, I mean, are you, you know, you talked about sort of when you were crafting the gift, like, that's a role probably that wasn't coming to you, the role you played in that one. Are you finding, like, are there types of roles that aren't coming across your desk that you wish folks would think of you for, or is that, are you satisfied? Because you're, you know, what, you're 41, you're, like, leading man, you've got, you kind of, like, you know, that's what you are.

You could be that. So I'm sure, so that could be interesting, and sometimes that can be the least interesting part in the film. you know what I mean yeah I don't know there's all sorts of kind of hidden weird little

kind of experiences and uh and types and whatever you know characters that are the mix of all sorts of things

or experiences that you've had the opportunity to do maybe like the opportunity to do again because you feel like you weren't ready at the time or it was 10 years ago and you have a new

perspective on that there's also what what comes to you as you get older in terms of what kind of a person you are. You know, playing fathers and playing older characters becomes a very interesting thing. I'm interested in certain things and I'm starting to write about those things and hopefully they'll become opportunities. You know, also, I'm not someone who's scared of doing something kind of big and action-driven

as a kind of a slight holiday from the more independent cinema stuff. I'd like to do a mix of big and small. Nice. Yeah. So far so good. Yeah. No, it's been great to talk to you in the last few years, man. And please, in the last few months, just Black Mask, the gift.

Now, Jane got a gun. You should feel very proud and hopefully you're taking a little break soon, maybe. And you've stopped loving soon, loving recently. Yeah, yeah. Loving will come out some point this year, I guess. I can't wait for Midnight Special, by the way. That's going to be. Yeah, we're going to go to Berlin for Midnight Special.

Mike, you know, Mike your non-sexual has got there and I've been meeting up. You know, and that's going to be an exciting one. That was, I think Jeff's made a very special movie in that, talking of sort of throwbacks. It's sort of a bit of a, you know, Starman, close encounters type throwback, I think.

Sold. And then Loving is such a kind of 180 from that. So, I don't know, Jeff's such a special guy. It's such a good man. It's always good to, you know, one thing I realized through the older, I get is, is movies are like, they're hard to make, you know. You take a lot of your life, you disappear from your own life for such a long time. When you get to make them with really good people as well, it's awesome. Well, you guys manage to get this one across the finish line.

Congratulations. Yeah. Got a gun, man. And always a pleasure to see you. You too. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, very. Hey everybody, it's Paul Shear.

I have a podcast with June Diane Rayfield and Jason Manzukas, where we watch the worst movies ever made, and then we try to figure out how did this get made? Do we get answers? No, but I think it's a fun time. It's kind of like talking with all your friends after you watch a really shitty movie. Here, take a listen. From what I know of tornadoes, they're, they're, Wind, essentially.

And what do you know of tornadoes? I'm about to tell you. June with an amateur storm chaser, go ahead. Wind starts to sort of pick up dirt and debris and it kind of collapses in a... You know nothing about a tornado. No, no, no, keep going to go. Listen to how did this get made on Earwolf or your favorite podcast app? We would love it if you did.

Pop. Pop. Pop? Pop. Pop. Pop. This has been a Wolf Pop production, executive produced by Paul Shear, Adam Sacks, Chris Bannon, and Matt Goorley. For more information and content, visit wolfpop.com. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the league, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives.

Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you misdums. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night.

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