Happy Sad Confused - John Cena, Vol. III

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

John Cena is back! For John’s third time on the podcast, he and Josh chat all about his new film MATCHBOX THE MOVIE, the future of PEACEMAKER, and even look back at his wrestling career–including that iconic heel turn in 2025. Plus, the first time he met James Gunn, his relationship with Dwayne Johnson, his take on a new FAST & FURIOUS movie, & more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/happy #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

James, they built this huge beach in Atlanta, and like, they built a fucking beach in a backlot. And James is like 500 yards away with a megaphone shout and subsplice. Oh, no, stop. Wait, just, I'm coming over. No, no. Came over and was like, hey, just be a dushy broie Captain America. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. today on the show, John Sina. He's one of the biggest actors on the planet. He's one of the biggest human beings on the planet. He's here on the podcast for the third time. He's always a fascinating conversation, and this one is no different. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast.

Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube on Spotify. However you're doing it, I don't care. Just do the thing. You know what to do. And remember, if you like what I do, check out our Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy, say, Confused. Early access to every single episode of Happy Sayac Infused and Bonus Materials,

access to our live event. and so much more, patreon.com slash happy, say, confused. Okay, so let's talk John Cena for a second. This guy's fascinating. He delivers fascinating interviews. Pearls of wisdom just rip off of him. He is a deep thinker. He doesn't take anything lightly.

His work, these conversations. This one is, I think, our third round of Happy, Say Confused with John, and he always surprises me in the best possible way. Yes, we talk about his new movie, Matchbox, the movie, which is super fun and entertaining. It's on Apple TV this week. Check it out. But also we go into, I don't know, his approach to life and career and balancing it all. He talks about, you know, taking a stab at acting in 2006, 20 years ago and failing, frankly, failing and being given a second chance in more recent years.

We talk a lot about James Gunn and peacemaker. We talk about the end of his wrestling career at length. He goes in deep about why he decided to leave when he did and how it all went down and is really reflective in the best possible. way. I always learn a ton talking to John about his life, but also just life in general. And I'm always just so appreciative that one of the busiest men on the planet comes on this little old podcast. So I think you guys are going to enjoy this. I know I did. Here we go. Me and the one and only, John Sina. You're back on the podcast. Yeah, thanks so much. I appreciate you always. I was just saying time is the most valuable commodity as far as I'm concerned. And you've been very generous

with your time over the years with me. So I thank you, buddy. Appreciate you back. And I apparently didn't ruin it enough to be asked back. So thank you so much. We're going to get you into the five timers club. This is your third time on the podcast. Okay.

You get a free hat when you're on five times, John. All right. Okay, I got something to strive for, right? Doesn't feel like. I love the gamification of that. I like that. Just trying, whatever I can do. Congratulations on the movie.

We're going to cover that in many things today. Matchbox, the movie is the film. Last time I saw you, San Diego, Comic-Con. Yeah. So we debuted the trailer. That was a fun one. Yeah, it was. Okay, so talk to me like, you might be the busiest man in showbiz.

That's what, that's what it seems like to me from the outside looking in. Like, can you give me some perspective? Like, since I saw you in July, have you shot something? Have you traveled the world? Have you taken some time off? Like, we're, what's John's life then? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know, man. I think we're all, we're all busy in our own right. Yeah. It is so sports cliche, but I'm just trying to handle it one day to time. Yeah. I mean, you seem to me like someone that's like kind of unflappable. Like you can kind of handle the big things, the crazy things, the silly things.

Like you're always kind of even keel. And maybe that's part of that is just, you know, part of like projecting something out into the universe. But I don't know. Would friends and family say John is kind of an even keel kind of guy? Or do you have your ups and downs like the rest of us? I think they would definitely say I'm human. and goodness, I think stubbornness, sternness, some of the strengths that got me opportunities

are also the biggest weaknesses I have. I think maybe, because I've been lucky enough to be able to be creative for a long time, I understand that not only will it end, also that more than likely one, mess up, one slip up, won't be the end. You are not defined by one action alone. Right.

You can piss a lot of people off. They'll talk about you for a week or a month or whatever, but your body of work will speak for itself from a professional standpoint. And let's take that outside professionalism. If we're friends, then I do something to piss you off. But we're really close friends. You'll talk shit maybe for a week or a month.

Yeah. And then we'll go on in our friendship. You know what I'm saying? So you're like one, I guess I know that like, I am going to fuck up and to try to take those with grace and also when when people upset me, are their intentions malicious? Are they just trying to do the best they can? Yeah. Where did we miss?

What am I really mad about? And can I course correct? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. I mean, is that a warning that you had to come to after many years? So like I said, I think that is a byproduct of me being. lucky enough to be in the creative space or in this space where I'm consistently interacting with individuals.

Yeah. I'm in the service business. You have to make relationships immediately. You get to make relationships immediately, some that you might never see again. We're all in it together, although we're all in it for selfish reasons. You know, I want to keep working and I want the movie to be a success with my castmates. Yep. And then I got to do it again or I get to do it again with other castmates and enough

another movie and project. Yeah. I don't know. I think I think it has a lot to do with the amount of time. You know, it's like that that old person who's like super wise when the young kids are like, oh man, you know nothing and the, you know, the guy knows everything, but it's just the amount of time he's had to live. You know what I'm saying?

Were there times early on when like you did fuck up and you thought this would have like lasting repercussions? That moment where. if we look at what like a mess up is or a fuck up a fuck up defined by me is when I'm completely acting outside of my values right betraying your own when I am walking the talk if if if you don't jive with me change the radio station because I'm I'm walking the talk I believe a true mess up is when you go outside of that that's when you feel like ah man I wasn't myself I begin to feel guilt and I begin to feel shame.

Yeah. Or if one of your values becomes obsolete, I'm holding onto this value. Just out of stuperness. Bringing me down a wrong path. It's making me go against all the other ones. Yeah. So I think behavior in that sort of aspect is where guilt and shame comes in. And like, so when we have those moments of effing up, your question was like, does it feel

like the end of the world? That's the immediate nervous reaction for me. Yeah. You know, is this it? Is this how the story ends? Yeah. Um, also, I'm in an occupation that's fragile. I also know it will end. And I also know the end is beyond my control. If I have my own story to paint and doing it on my own terms, I'd like to do this forever. When I retired from WWE, everybody's like, man, you're doing on your own terms. Bullshit. I want to do it forever. I know that it's time to go. It is within my values. I said, I want to do good work and I want to leave doing good work. But my own terms are to do it infinity. Like, I want to continue to do it. But I gotta be realistic and look at the math and be like, okay, it's time to step away. It's funny because you said that to me many times. I've heard you say it's other people and not many people in your position to talk about it being like, having an end point.

I think we all kind of like have the delusion, the hope that we can continue on forever, be immortal, be viable. And that, what a goal to shoot towards, right? You never know the advance and what we're going to discover all the way. At this point, that is delusional because there has never been a human being to do that. So that is delusional. I think starting there of like hope is a great word to keep for that concept. Sure. I hope within my lifetime, maybe we crack the coat.

The reality that we live in is that is delusional. So starting with, I'm going to do that. That's not a morbid thing. It's a perspective of that thing could be morbid. Yeah. I like saying it is going to end because man, when I wake up and it's a sunny day in New York in October, and I look around with the skyscrapers and the lights bouncing off the sky. I'm like, it's a beautiful day.

Like, and I'm not perfect with that. Boy, there is a wrong side of the bed that I live on quite often and I'm sometimes slow getting to altitude. And there are sometimes moments of crisis. times moments of crisis in my life. I'm a human fucking being. But I think knowing that you don't have all the time in the world, also knowing that your end is beyond your control. Life expectancy is just an average of everybody combined. So it could be tomorrow, you know, still having joy in your life with that uncertainty and making choices for like, I could, I could not do hard drugs. And that puts the math in my favor. I could not continue to fall.

down and put my body through physical punishment. That's gonna put the math in my favor. Right. It's not a certainty, but at least it's steering it in the right direction. Sure, sure, but that concept of like, this thing will end. Yeah.

I don't look at that pessimistically. I look at that, be like, dude, enjoy it while you're here. And to be able to end chapters. I know my professional career is also not what totally defines me as a human. I got so much more to give. I got so much more your curiosity out there, so much more things to see.

Yeah. Like, so what? So what are you working on now? Nothing. And that's an okay answer. But in our, in our industry, it's always like, got to be busy. Gotta have something. Got what are you developing?

What's going on? Man, I don't know. No. And I'm guilty of it as anybody. Like when you came in here, I was like, wait, John doesn't have a project he's doing next. Like, what's going to? And it took me up until like right now, a few years ago. Yeah.

to say that's okay. Of course. It's okay. It's more than okay. It's required. The maxims that are thrown around of like, make hay while the sun shines, answer the phone while it's ringing. Like you gotta get on the next one.

Like it is, it's, in many aspects, it's a mercenary business. And like, you don't know where your next paycheck's coming from. The industry continues to change and evolve. That's from the advent of the first time they put something on silent movies to like where we're at now. I mean, nobody understands it. I don't know where the, where the, the next one's coming from, you just try to do the best you can and hope they ask you back.

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Are you a gut instinct kind of guy? Do you labor over opportunities and? So I think instincts are important, right? I don't think you should make a choice off of pure data or pure instinct. And especially in the creative space, pure data without instinct might make it kind of tough for me to sit here and talk passionately

about the thing I'm trying to get you your attention for. I think there needs to be. a healthy combination of I feel this is right and man this looks right yeah what I look for in an opportunity is great producers because things are gonna go wrong and that's when a great producer is a great producer and I tell anybody if I get like an EP credit on something that is an act of kindness from the people who actually do those that work but great producers are the start a passionate director that doesn't need to be a director with a ton of movies under their belt.

It could be someone new. It could be a first timer. It could also be an experience, but they have to have a sense of passion. And passion for me is like, talk about films the way I talk about wrestling. Okay, right on. Because I know when you're in it, you're going to fight for your vision. And you already have an idea of what you want to do. Sometimes going one to the next, to the next to the next is a way to keep the lights on.

it also is a way to keep us like numb and complacent and like what why am I really still doing this just checking the box as opposed to yeah great producers passionate director and the reason you got great producers is sometimes you got to reel in that passion from the director but that's great it's a great relationship to have and a good story a good script I need to be able to read it if I'm reading it and I have to put it down to be like I'll finish it later I it could be the role of a lifetime let someone else have it yeah it has to be my favorite book on day one It has to be my favorite book on prep and rehearsals, day 90 of shooting, the last day of press, the first day of press. It needs to have that feel, you know, and I think the feel of the read is where the instinct comes in. And the other two are really based on bodies of work, really logical data-driven stuff of the, well, passion is a gut instinct as well, you know? So it is a, it's a combination there. So what feeling did this give you? So Sam, Hargraids is the only one recently. Yeah.

That I've had two of the three. I had no script for this one. That's a leap. It is. Skydance promised me that like, hey, we're a partner with Apple on this one. You did Barbie. You saw how Mattel is with their IP. They're not looking over your shoulder.

That I'm forcing you to do anything. We haven't given the script yet because we don't, we don't feel it's in a right place. Trust me, it's gonna be there. And I rolled the dice. given their track record and they delivered they promised me so we had we had skydance and Sam Hargrave I knew with Sam there's no lack of passion right that dude lives by pushing the envelope this is the attraction director he's done a ton of

that's how he goes through life pushing the envelope on life yeah push the envelope as a dad as a husband as a director as a stunt man is like he's awesome he's very aspirational human being so I just rolled the dice that the book would be great. And I got to admit I was skeptical. And in Hall H, you could like feel it. That's why I was stalling, dude. Like, you could feel everybody being like, how are they going to do this? Yeah. It's the same thing that happened on Barbie, right? Until you start to see it. How are they going to do this? What is this actually me? Yeah, yeah. One and a half minutes or two minutes. And you're like, thank goodness. Yeah. And I loved the story quickly became a favorite because the way they

use matchbox cars the cars are just a conduit for nostalgia right which is what the cars are right they don't have to showcase my favorite but they use it we look at nostalgia in times of crisis nostalgia is simply looking at an easier time in life these these the matchbox gang is dropped into crisis yep and they got a lean on what got them to the dance you know there was a simpler time where we could solve any problem and we did it when these were popular it's like oh man I used used to play that eight-bit Nintendo thing. Remember, we used to sleep over and do whatever.

Isn't that a simpler time in our life? If we would just solve problems like that, you know, like, that's how they wrote it. And credit to Mattel is a partner. They didn't have you do this, you know, like, no, it's not alert at all. It wasn't like, put a drop of water on the cars, and then they become big. And, you know what I'm saying? No, if anything, it's like, yeah, the Goonies kids grown up crossed with a little fast and furious thrown in there.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And a whimsical journey, but a realistic one. for a CIA agent, what Sean goes through is a normal day at the office. Right. He just happens to bring his friends along. He deviates from the plan.

And in typical operative fashion, everybody involved should be involved. Take everybody. Right. No, they don't belong here. Well, too late. And then the matchbox gang has to figure it out. And along the way, they, you know, Sean has been distant from his friends. They're stuck on a crazy road trip.

So you get time to connect. And you realize that, like, Sean, his fish out of water scenario is I work alone. Not anymore, pal. No, you don't, their fish out of water scenarios, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. As 99% of us would be. Yeah.

So is, it is very charming to see kind of like, yeah, like the childhood friends still connected. And I'm curious, like, how good you've been in your own life. Because people you grew up with must marvel at, like, where you are, who you are. There's not a day that goes by that I don't marvel at what's going on. There's not a day. There's not a single day. Or I don't, I don't say like, what a life or how lucky I am. Am I in a simulation? Is this real? What happens?

Regardless of, of what it is. Yeah. I would be lucky enough to be in the simulation for this long. Like, it's just luck. Yeah. And. Well, it's more than just luck. It's luck meeting opportunity. I mean, luck and the luck is the opportunity and then add effort to the opportunity. And hopefully that can exponentially increase opportunities. But, But many of those opportunities are just luck. But to my point of like childhood and people we keep in our lives, friends and family, are they, are they, I mean, I don't know, do they give you some perspective to the ones that you grew up with that have kind of that distance from it? So I still have a few of those friends from like grade school.

Yeah. I got a few friends from college. I got friends throughout wrestling. I have friends in, you know, that I've met in the movie business. Sure. And I also have friends that I had in gray school that I no longer have. Friends I had in high school and college that I no longer have. Friends that I had when I was starting out wrestling, continuing wrestling that I no longer

have. Friends in the movie business that I no longer have. And it's not like, fuck this person. It's like just the chapter. It's life. Yeah. That's life. Yeah.

That's life. It's tough to keep all those connections. Yeah. I think the ones in grade school that I still have, we've been able to grow together. not with any of my connections that I love and pour into in life, are we stuck in 1985? Where we can reflect on 1985. Sure. And we live in the now.

Yeah. And we look ahead to what's onward. And I think that separates those who stay in the book from those who end the chapter. Right. You know what I'm living in the past? Yeah. Is it, I would also imagine, again, you're in this very unusual, you're living this unusual life. We all are living unusual lives.

You're on the extreme, I would say. Like, is it hard to accept new people into your life and trust new people? No. No. I thrive and work hard to remain curious. I believe I'm an optimist when it comes to humanity. I believe there's not, there are some people who are acting for selfish reasons.

There are certainly scammers out there. I just believe in humanity. Yeah. I believe you can have small acts of incremental trust to build a greater structure of trust. Yeah. Just the way we have an interaction, the way you say hello, the way we start our conversation,

the way you treat me if you're asking something of me and from me, doesn't mean I won't reject you, I might give it to you, but I, that might be the end of our transaction and it might be purely transactional. How a relationship develops is small exercises and trust. That's it. Yeah. And if I'm not willing to,

to give that if I'm like no new friends, then I shut myself off from love and connection. Yeah. I think the risk is worth the reward. And I've met some great folks in the process, unlikely friends. Like it's a wonderful thing. It's it really stings when it goes wrong and it does go wrong.

And it sucks. But man, when it goes right, it's beautiful. It's worth it. Okay, if you'll indulge me, let's reminisce for a little bit. It struck me almost, 20 years to the day going back, the Marine came out. Yeah. Like truly almost 20 years exactly.

Yeah. And we've talked a little bit about that period of your life and kind of the early films you did. But like, can you take me back to like what your attitude was, what your feeling was when that film premiered about your potential acting career? I was thoroughly engaged on the success of the business model. And my goal was to put more people in the arenas

WWE right period like hey man you could like have a whole another career out of this why would I want another career right I was in Pittsburgh last night and it was dope we're doing we're doing Allentown tonight and it's sold out right and there's no feeling in the world and it's gonna be awesome yeah and like every every night a new challenge a new crowd to figure out a new dance partner to work with you know a new piece of the world to see a new adventure to have As a young 20 something, 30 something, like... You crack the code, this is it.

Man, I don't want to be anywhere else. Yeah. And in reflection, I could see that in the work. My heart was elsewhere, man. You see it. If you went back, we watched the Marines today, you would see something that's just not a commitment wasn't there or... So when I watch it, I can tell,

we can do things that amaze people and still not have our heart in it. So if somebody is entertained by the Marine, I can't, so many people, man, I love that move. Sure. A lot of that is protection from somebody like David Eggby, the DP, Robert Patrick, our senior, our senior on the, you know, on the cast. A lot of it is them rising everybody up. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

And you can only hide in that for so long. With WWE, I know I got dance partners and a good dance partner can pull along a non-passionate dance partner and get them through a good match right the body of work will speak if you continue to have passion every time you step on the canvas and you can work with anybody and create a passionate story with anyone my heart wasn't in those early offerings because I didn't put in the effort to get better right okay I start shooting on Monday so I'm not gonna show up there until like the last second whatever no I just do I'll figure it out I'll figure it all out whereas in

wrestling it's like who am I gonna fight Like, right, I got to study all my opponents. What am I going to say? This is going to be crazy. I think we can do this move. Like, I didn't go at it with that gusto. Yeah. And then after getting kind of run out of town in the movie business,

I had to start over. I got, you want to talk about luck. I got to start over. This is my second run. Yeah. You know? More happy, say, confused coming up. I'm Anne Foster, and I have never watched the show, Spartacus, Blood, and Sand.

And I'm Gina Barry, and I've watched this show numerous times. On our new podcast, Nefer TV, we discuss TV shows and movies set in ancient history. This season, we are discussing Spartacus, Blood, and Sand. Follow Nefer TV. That's N-E-F-E-R-TV, wherever you get your podcasts. Well, summer may be over, but things are still hot on Turtle Time. Goodbye, NextGen, NYC. Goodbye the Valley.

We'll see you next year. But now Turtle Time is gearing up to cover some of the most beloved franchises in the Bravo universe. Turtle Time is covering Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Real Housewives of Orange County, and Real Housewives of Potomac. Salt Lake City, Orange County, Potomac, these are wonderful franchises. Could you imagine what Amy and I are going to say about them? You'll hear some of the hottest takes you've ever heard in your life. You'll feel like it's still summer. Oh, these will be hot takes. Uh, fall and winter? Great job trying to cool things off. No, it's still hot over on Turtle Time. You're going to get that summer warmth. So put away your bathing suit, put away the sunscreen.

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We're never doing movies again. Right. Dan's dancing right across the hall. Your guy, Dan. Okay, so he says, he has the honest conversation. He says, I don't think, I think we're done. I don't think we're doing movies again. Yeah.

Was that a blow to your ego? I mean, you're riding high in wrestling. You're entertaining everybody night after night. Like, oh, fuck, I didn't succeed for once in my professional career. I have been riddled with failure in my life. It was just a thing of like, okay, cross that off the list. Right. Why did we miss?

Yeah. You kind of didn't want to do it anyway. Right. I felt bad that I couldn't make the business model of success. Yeah. This thing, like someone had invested in me and I had cost them money rather than returning their investment. That was what I felt the worst about.

Yeah. And to Dan's credit, when I'm like, man, we're never doing these again. He's like, no, we're not. and we're going to find another way. What do you enjoy doing? Like, oh, I'll read the news. We'll host some shows. We'll do competition reality.

Let's start moving forward. And then Brian Robbins was like, hey, I'm filming this movie with this YouTube kid. You want to parody yourself? And I'm like, yo, what? Because by then it's like Fred was 2011, 12-ish. I've been playing the same character on TV now. So take that young.

hungry kid who's got lightning in a bottle. It's the first time audiences see John Sina. And now it's like nine years into being in the skin of the John Sina character. And somebody's like, hey, do you want to make fun of that character? Yes, I do. And I pride myself on trying to do as many fan conventions as I can whenever I'm off, I try to do fan conventions.

I love them. And so many fans come up to me with like this shit-eating grin on their face going, love you and Fred. I'm like, I loved those movies. Yeah. I absolutely loved those movies because that was the first time that I approached a creative role that wasn't wrestling with the passion I approach wrestling. And one could argue, I mean, I don't know like what the comedy directors were drawing on when they cast you and things like train wreck, but like I'm sure that was that set you on

the right path for people to kind of say, oh, this guy has other shades. There's also tremendous advantages by being put around. very capable people. Yeah. Well, that's. And then combined very capable people who create a very safe, creative environment. Yeah. That's a chemistry experiment for a high level of success. Totally again. So, you know, but then also approaching this, this, let's take train wreck, for example, a part that was written simply to be a one scene gag, Amy's true experience in life where she had way too physical sex with someone. And it was like, this is a, just too physical. I can't like I'm out because it's a it's a gag and super funny. We did stunt

rehearsals and like well we use none of it because of the audition and their ability to pivot and be like oh man but I came prepared dude. I came prepared and confident and knew like okay I'm giving I'm giving this small window of probably 90 seconds on screen my everything and what I'm not going to do is get out of that audition and say I could have done more. Right. And that's been a, that's been a process that's helped me. Was there, do you remember the first time you met James Gunn?

Like, was it for Peacemaker? Or did you go up for Guardians? Like, did you go up for Drax? Like, first time I met James Gunn was auditioning for peacemaker in the suicide squad. Okay. Well, so you didn't, you never did the whole Guardian's kind of audition process. No, no. And, uh, I, I knew I wasn't James's first choice.

There's also, you, you mentioned. ego there's also no ego with me about that I think like a lot of the greatest opportunities I've gotten life have been because someone else has said no yeah I have very rarely been someone's first choice and that's okay like it doesn't matter how you get it's what you do with it right when I opened James office and he had the entire movie comic book storyboarded from starting there to there And he was like, yeah, this is what I see. And peacemakers, this.

We're going to do this. And that's the journey. And we're going to end it like this. What do you think? I'm like, what, do I have to try? Do you want to hear me? No, no. Do you want to do it?

Because like, I want you to do it. I'm like, oh, my God. So I get to do that? Yeah, we're going to start shooting in a couple weeks. Okay. I'll see you in a few weeks. And like, I knew then, like, yo, I have a passionate director. Right.

You know, now I got to get this book in my hand and make it my favorite. You know, like that, that was seeing that and also reinforcing it in a, I guess in a way of mentorship that James doesn't know about of like, you know, you want to go in, be prepared. And James is super prepared. Yeah. I have a feeling that's because he writes the material, but like in the in the material, everybody asked me like, oh, this thing in peacemaker. Yes, it was in the script. this is where the scoring starts, this is the scoring, this is where the scoring ends.

Like he is prepared. He's living and breathing it. He lives for the show. And that's why all the stuff that he creates has that unique touch to it, that unique feel to it, you know, like it's, he bestows lessons upon me that he doesn't even know about, just how he moves through space. Right.

Give it everything, everything. Did he give you back on the suicide squad, like any specific direction of how to approach the character? So I asked him if I should read the character. comics in his office. He's like, nope, I'm going to create my own interpretation of the character. That I think that's sometimes why I looks to choose broken toys. So he has the freedom to do whatever he wants. Um, and I, I came up with what I thought peacemaker would be and he threw it away the first day shooting on the beach. I was like, this guy is like a freedom fighter or like a

devout patriot confused. Uh, I thought like, uh, Lee Armi from full metal jacket. Right. And like, Couldn't be more angular and then James they built this huge beach in Atlanta and like they built a fucking beach in a back lot and it James is like 500 yards away with a megaphone shout and some spines oh no stop wait just I'm coming over no came over and he's like hey just just be a douchey broie Captain America and I'm like okay what a cool moment right I had done my work. I had prepared. Like, how does a military drill sergeant move through space? How does he moves through space in scenes

when he knows no one's watching him? Like, this is who I think this person is. It's the choices. And then in one moment, real time, like we're doing a take next, I get a note to be like, hey, all that work you did, throw it away. This is what I want to see. What a pivotal decision. I got two choices.

I can fight for what I want, which is selfish. or I can take advice from the dude who sees the whole movie in his head and what he's really looking for out of me is Dushi Broie Captain America. Time to pivot through all the work away and peacemaker was born. What a perfect direction though too. It kind of tells you everything you need to know right there. That it's a vivid picture. Right. Like everybody's like, oh yeah, I get that.

I got it. And my version might be slightly different than his, but like we're going to, we might hit the bull's eye, but we're not. gonna not we're not we're not missing the board yeah yeah you know and that's when we began to hone in on the thing and just that direction so the long walk on the beach led up to like me and idris stopping on a hill where we finally were like realize poke it out man and all that stuff just that direction allowed so many alts to come out to mess with idress for idris to mess back with me right james used none of them but he was just letting me get altitude as peacemaker and he did that for the whole first run of the series too in

COVID man we filmed that thing during COVID nobody had human interaction so dude I came to set to every day to burn to burn film and James was so great about we always made our days we never wasted anybody's money he was always great about giving us time to interact as humans with humans to set the stage for a workplace comedy, which is what season run a peacemaker was. I mean, those two seasons are fantastic. And I mean, I think many would argue that it's like it really showed us what you are capable of as an actor. Like it's like an amazing performance.

So congratulations on that. I mean, that character, the stuff you get to do, the stuff you get to say, you know, to some that would be a little scary. Like I mean, when you read like some of the lines he wrote for you, like, Aquaman fucks fish. Like is there like, oh God, I'm going to. to see Jason Mamoa one day. I'm gonna have to explain that walk to him.

Or is there just so much trust in James that like. So I, so here's my thing. Like if I'm if I'm a character saying a line about another character, I'm not making fun of Jason. Right. It's not John making fun of Jason. You know what I'm saying? And I also, I also think this is the skin I've built in the WWE.

Right. I have been called everything. And people will come up to me and be like, yo, I boo you all the time, but I'm just booing John Cena. Not like John Cena. Like I'm like, what? I'm the, okay, but and I get it. Yeah.

So it's not personal. The lines are there to establish conflict. And quite frankly, if you get a rise out of the person, that's why we did it. Right. And if you can't compartmentalize and you do take it personal, My apologies, but that's not what it's for.

Right. You know, if I sit here with an interview with you and talk shit about a person, that is me personally saying, I don't like the way this person is and I'm handling my frustrations by talking to you about it and putting it out to the world. I'd like to settle that with the person face to face. And if I don't get that chance, that I'll sit in my own stuff. Yeah. But I don't know. That's, is that uncomfortable? all brave things need to be uncomfortable.

You need to do something and be like, I hope they like it. Not like nailed it. You know what I'm saying? Sure. The nailed it comes after the audience sees it. Right. That's easy to say after that that worry that that nervous excitement. That means you're touching the third rail. It happens right before you go through the curtain in wrestling like right up until and then when you go through it's a different feeling.

Ours is the the movie making business is different. You have that, the curtain is until tonight when audiences see it. Yeah. You get, but it has to, you have to have that nervousness, that discomfort, you know, because you should be making bold choices that you should be putting yourself out there and good coaching, either castmates and castmates and a director and editors and people putting a movie together should take those bold choices and make them make sense. You know, I have full trust in directors, which is why a passionate director, which is why a passionate

director is one of my tent poles. I want to give them what they want, even if it's not what I see, because what I see is not what they see. They're making the movie. I'm not going to go with them into the edit. But if they're like, hey, I need you to be crazy, all right, I'll give you my interpretation of crazy. I'll also take like straight notes, be crazy and say this while you're being crazy. I'll do my best. It's a challenge for me as an actor. I'm not trained. Like, this is my training. I'm getting reps as we go. Um, I don't know. I just, I like that. I like that. You know, We couldn't possibly have seen the last of peacemaker. I mean, that's, you need a different guy on, in the chair.

I, I, have you, have you been costumes since we last saw you? Have you? And when, when I put that helmet on, I told James, I'm like, dude, I will put this helmet on as long as you need me to. I love working with him. I love the environment he creates. He makes me a better performer. So I love being around him. I also know that he went from like, he did guardian.

had to had a steep hill to climb he got invited to DC he had one crew to mess around with the suicide squad yeah and then COVID hit and he was really bored so he wrote peacemaking now this dude gets to play with a whole box of toys and because you get the whole box of toys you have to address the really valuable ones first and I understand that so here's a situation where I put my heart and soul into a character and an unknown character becomes a fan favorite. I also know that it's okay. I got to step back.

They got it. The Superman and Batman get their due, I guess, whatever. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, dog, there's so many valuable IPs. You know, I'm not in the leadership spot, but if I was, I'd be making those plays first. So that's okay. But does it feel like from a creative standpoint for you,

is there unfinished business? I mean, we left. There should always, there always feels like unfinished business. I've retired from wrestling, but people are like, man, but you can come back and like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's all that is to me is a message that like, dude, you did good work.

That's a good sign. Yeah. You did good work and I'd like to see you again. Nobody's saying good fucking riddance peacemaker. Yeah. There might be some folks, but I've heard more of, of the other sentiment than the sentiment I just expressed. I just, um, rather than, oh man, but what if we, I have no control over the what if we?

Yeah. I did good work. Hopefully it might get me a good opportunity elsewhere. We'd like you to do matchbox. Okay, let's go. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Have you been away from wrestling long enough to miss it yet?

I missed it while I was in it. Like it, man, it, it's it's music I love to listen to man. Like it's I miss it now. I missed it while I was in it. I miss it while I was doing it. I'll miss it forever. I wish I could do it forever. There's, there's, I would be lying and I, I wanted honesty.

You can explain things differently, but honesty is also, that's a core value of mine. I, I love it. There's nothing like it and I wish I could do it forever. Was it, when you made the ultimate final decision to say goodbye, was it a combination? Like what was it was a doctor saying like your body's gonna give out at some point?

Was it just feeling it? No, I'm 49, yeah, I'm slower. My vertical jump was down. My overall strength was down. Which means my body essentially time is undefeated. My body is getting weaker. And it takes longer to perform, longer to warm up to perform. It takes longer to recover between performances.

All of these things are data that's hitting me in the face. And those times, those number, the strength numbers are never going back up. The times are never going to get smaller. It's going to take longer and longer. Not to say that I still don't have good performances left. I could probably get in there and still do some stuff. But when is the math going to not work? And at that point, gosh, people are paying a lot for tickets.

And I'm robbing them of that investment. So I just looked at the data. I looked at the schedule. A lot of stuff is going on. And I'm passionate about what I'm doing. And I don't want to take away from people on the production side who invested all this money in me. I don't want to take away from that.

Let's close this chapter while we still can do great work and hopefully tell a year-long riveting story. And it was. The great thing about the story is it pissed people off. People didn't like parts. People did like parts. Conversation erupted. But it wasn't apathetic.

We had no empty seats. As far as you're concerned, you were more than happy with how it all played out. You no regrets. Yeah, the whole idea of the retirement tour wasn't like an egotistical thing. Yeah. It was like, man, this business invested so much in me. How can we take the IP and really do a good thing for the business? And not just from like, okay, if we got this new talent and we want to put John Cena with a new talent.

No, how can we make 2025 a year, a year where you can begin to gain relevance and take that and leverage it into whatever content agreements you have or like how can we get to a new territory internationally by advertising yo we'll give you one of john's last performances you know what i'm saying like use it as it's just yeah and the you know we take things differently there was there were perspectives out there of like oh man this is a ego driven thing it is a business driven thing yeah the i think the selfish thing is just to go away because every the you know the you You didn't, you didn't alone make yourself this huge thing. Not only did you have a bunch of dance partners,

but you had somebody pushing money into the furnace to create the IP. And it was just a way for me to be like, well, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna go, I think this might be a good way to do it. And I pitched the WWE and I was like, hey, listen, either it's this or like, I just post on X that I'm retired. Yeah.

Yeah, that post is gonna get a ton of traction. But X is going to get paid for that. Like let's do something that's fulfilling for the audience. And let's do something that keeps the company's lights on. And that's where the idea of the farewell tour was born. Can I show you what's instantly become one of many iconic moments in your career at the end? Can we show this to John? This is the long, awaited heel turn.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Look at that. Can you put me in your head a little bit of like, do you remember the before, during, and after of that moment? Yeah, so this came out of nowhere. And again, it was like most, I was never a performer to be like, I want to work with this guy and I want to do this, this, this was a phone call I get seven to ten days before the thing about like, hey, we have this idea what we want to do in February is turn heel. I said, okay, no problem.

Wait, what? Are you sure? Yeah, that's what we're doing. Um, yeah, but you've been a good guy so long and people view he's a good guy. Hey, I've been down this road before. Uh, the last time we addressed this was 2012 with Dwayne Johnson or 2011. And Vince came to me. It's like, I think I want to turn you heel.

I said, I'll do whatever you want. Just know that I'm here every day. Dwayne is coming in and out. So if we go bad, I'm going bad. A good bad guy makes the good. guy great right I can't be bad and then go shake hands and meet folks and do all that stuff I just want you to know like that's what you're saying is you want me to be bad I'm all in I went got new gear made I recorded a new song like I did all this stuff of my own and then a

week later's like now we're scrapping that door this was hey we want to do this I'm in yeah sure what do you mean you're you're gonna be bad people look at you as a good good guy did you do your due diligence on this yes I pitched you guys this last year you know that I'm gonna be bad for the last like a portion of the last year you're fine with that that's how you want your investment spent yes we think it'll be awesome then I'm all in yeah but what about like how people feel about it's a character it's a character it's not me and yes the character is very closely correlated to John Sina and a lot of like the tent pole things that W.W.E. John Sina stands for are the same

things that I believe in. And I have so much more to give as a human being. I would never, in real life, challenge anyone to a fight. I'm a fucking diplomat. I believe in conversation. And I believe that we can come to a resolve. And that would be a last ditch effort. That's a glaring difference between the guy that runs down the ramp saying, if you want some, come get some, anybody that comes out here's getting their ass kicked. That is not my approach for excitement in real life. Yeah. You know, so there's a glaring difference between the character and the human. And there are many more. And I think that's a gray area with creative space, especially with wrestlers, because our fans are so passionate and they invite us into their homes every week.

And I've been invited into their homes every week for two decades. And it's like, this is the guy I know. And yes, this is the guy you know. And if we got to know each other more, you would know more about me. And I guess it's the feeling of like, man, if people hate me because I'm doing it and like the character is ruined, well, at least we tried something bold. We tried. We went down swinging. It wasn't just an apathetic like, eh, you know, this would be so much worth.

Right. Let's swing boldly. The last choice I ever made. Giving up. A bold swing. My now involvement with the WWE, the John Cena Classic, a bold swing. I made it. I made it through all the match criticisms and all the critiques and all the...

I want to get back in there. And I want them to tell me it sucks. And I want them to tell me why. And if you don't do it boldly, it's not worth it. Big swings. So as long as I just... just asked everybody like this is these are the parameters this is what you're asking me you're okay we're okay let's do it and the one thing I said about the creation of the moment we're all on

cody's traveling bus talking about like how we wanted it to go and making sure creatively everybody is okay so the one thing I think is important is shoot my face because I'm I'm a guy who preaches friendship and Cody is a friend of mine we have history. I think this is a believable thing. Just shoot the turn of emotions in my face. That lingering conflict, the turn. And when you showed me that clip, you cut it at the kick in the nuts. You showed me the face. So like just without even me telling that story, what you showed me before validates like, hey man, I think this is an important piece. Yeah. You know? And then the afterwards got a little convoluted because some

players dropped out of the race. We had to redefine our journey. And that's the beauty of wrestling. Like it's a, it's like a soap opera story that goes on. And I tried to ruin wrestling, which seemed like a bad idea, or it seemed like a great idea, but it kind of was a bad for business. That's an idea that it's like, I got this great idea that's going to be awful and awesome. And then the people come up and they're like, ah, creatively, we need to go a different direction because this might be bad for business. Remember when we invested in that farewell tour thing, this might be the wrong way we want to do it okay fine i'll pivot i'll throw that idea away i'll come up with something new let's have my opponents now try to bring the good out of me try i know there's still

good left in him and that enter randy orton and all my famous rivalries to try to pull me back to the right side because it's like i made sure to put the ticking clock on the board of like we only got this many dates left and the first time i did it was in Vegas so bands could realize like my time slipping away it's very intentional black screen numbers done and then I would like a few appearances later I'd wait and then bring the clock up again peel off more numbers it's the first time in w.E that the sands are like we only got this guy for 10 more why are you wasting it why are what are we doing like it that sort of urgency created that sense of like this is when it ends yeah come on john what are you doing don't end like this which is that started to get the energy

and the chemistry we needed because I I truly think that nobody believed that was going to do it. You know, I'm retiring January 6th for Netflix on the debut. I'm retiring. Yeah, whatever. No, this is for real. The stakes are real. It really got real.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, yeah. I think everybody kind of discovered it in their own way and their own time. And in between my job is to swing boldly and make it entertaining. I had some misses. I had some hits. Lack of effort was not one.

not one, you know? And, and, and I'm very proud of that last year. And, and it might have set the stage for, for others to have ideas. They may be able to build off an idea like that when other superstars want to end their career. Who knows? I got to let you go soon. So let me just ask you quickly. Just looking ahead, you feeling optimistic about another fast movie? I've been asking all your co-stars like, so beyond my control. Do you talk to Vin regularly? Do you check in? Literally my big brother I talk to him often and I don't talk to him about business and I gosh I talk I talked to Vince often he's like guy he's one of my closest friends we never talk about business there's so much more to talk about with Vinn yeah you

want to talk about like put forth work into a character and then get to know the person and they are way more than the character then is is that Like, oh, he's one of the most fascinating human beings on the planet. Believe me, I agree. We, we talk often and I never talk business. All right. And I would like to think there'd be another fast movie. And also, I know that I had a pretty bad wreck in the last one.

I also, everybody's like, no, but it's fast. And I also know that maybe that was the way for my character to end their story. And maybe it would help make the next one if there is one more meaningful if I didn't show up. Yeah. So it's not like I'm sitting here. Yeah, there should be a fast. You should bring my guy back. Dude, I got to be a Touretto.

So instead of look onward about like, if this doesn't happen, this will be a disappointment. I look in the rear view and see the Touretto cross. Dope. Like, awesome. Have you and Jain ever talked about like a buddy anything film? Again, like talking business is tough. Duane and I have talked about creative business

that we have together. Yeah. He was going to produce something I think you were going to do at Jansen for a while. Yes. Uh, and that, uh, and that has been, many projects in development, it's tough to get something to the finish line. We talk about life, man. Yeah.

Like when I see him, it is literally a genuine, it's not the, how you doing? It's like, let's take a second and like, hey man, this time you, you, you said, how to my wife? I, I really need you know that meant a lot. And then we'll have a conversation about that. And he's very giving with his time and very sincere and very present. and I don't want to bug him down with like, and yo man, I got this pitch.

So we're on the run. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, totally. And there's so few people, honestly, that have the lives experience that you've had that you can relate to in a real way. Like, he's lived the life that you're living. And that's fast.

He's lived the life that he's living. Sure. And for, we have common threads, but even in those common threads, it's like the same color orange, but if you put the thread under a Microsoft, It's very different. Sure.

You know what I'm saying? Yep. There's a lot of commonalities we can have in conversation and in that conversation, my view of we're wrestlers and movie stars, so this is an outcome. He'd be like, no, no, no, it's this is an outcome. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. My perspective is that individual doesn't seem like he gets a lot of time to himself.

And when he's giving enough of his time to be present with me, the last thing I want to do is hand him a pitch deck that's fair no no that's fair and if folks that make movies there's a lot of folks out there that are in charge of like orchestrating those things if they see Dwayne's body of work and my body of work and they're like they'd be great together if that opportunity comes I'm all in like to say I wouldn't want to share the screen with Dwayne Johnson is a bold face of I I learned from the way I operated our first run in in the the WWE that to beat my chest and say like to go to him into that opportunity that was so wrong

of me so there's no way I'm gonna I would love to do it but I'm not gonna advocate for it when it's beyond my control and I don't want to force his hand into a decision you still want to make no yeah you know what I did that once it was such a such a learning experience yeah no we've talked about that one before yeah you still a retired gamer have you come back to gaming or I am retired. Totally. GTA 6 is not going to be on your list this year. I found piano, man.

Piano and reading. Yeah, yeah. You're cultivated man. No, I'm making up for lost time. I never played an instrument as a kid. And boy, did I never read. How's the piano going? I'm better than I was yesterday.

Okay. That's all we can ask for. It's not enough for me to start playing Grand Theft Auto. So I'm still messing. Better chance of you being at Carnegie Hall playing piano than playing Grand Theft Auto is what you're saying. And from your, from your words, we'll see. We'll see, but and yes, statistically, yes, there's a better chance. Okay.

All right. Look, I really do always appreciate not only the time, but you are just such a straight shooter. You're so honest and thoughtful. I appreciate you. I wish you the best of luck on this one. Matchbox, the movie, Apple TV, check it out. Thanks so much. And I know you can't please everybody.

And I know that. What I hope this does is get your audience thinking and conversing out there of either I agree with that I don't agree with that and here's why. I think those moments are special when you can see two people interact in a conversation and have something to say about it afterwards. So I hope that's something to say is

I'm going to see Matchbox the movie. Apple TV, 10-9. That's the warning, and I'm going to go shop for a really cool three-piece suit because you always show me up, man. Telling the waistcoat, baby. Just get a couch at a second-hand store and make a suit out of it.

I'll work on that for next time. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. Thank you. And so ends in a number. another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

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