Happy Sad Confused - John David Washington, Vol. III

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

It's a good season for the Washington family. Denzel is getting awards attention for a scene-stealing turn in GLADIATOR II. Malcolm Washington has made an impressive feature directing debut with THE PIANO LESSON. And speaking of that film, John David Washington has just delivered a fantastic performance bringing him back to the podcast once again, this time for a live taping at the 92nd Street Y. Josh and John David discuss the actors journey from athletics to the stage and screen and how he's navigated the long shadow of his iconic dad.  SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Uncommon Goods – Visit UncommonGoods.com/podcast/HappySad for 15% off BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is an eight-episode episode Hulu original limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus.

of failure, a motivator? Is that something that drives you? Dang. I thought you said we weren't going to get too deep, man. No, I didn't. He asked me that backstage, and I didn't comment. I didn't say anything. Yes, it is. It is. It is. It is. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys. How's it going, everybody? Thank you so much for coming out tonight. I'm Josh Horowitz. And today on how. Happy, Seek, Confused.

We're live at the 92nd Street, Why, with John David Washington. Are you ready, guys? Yes, you're ready. This audience here in New York City has just seen a fantastic film, a remarkable adaptation of one of August Wilson's seminal works, the piano lesson.

It's currently on Netflix, but they got a special treat to see it on the big screen, and I'm sure you'll agree with me. It's a fantastic special piece of work about family and legacy, and it is led by this fantastic performance by the actor I'm about to bring out John David, but it's also anchored by

this crazy ensemble of actors that, by the way, won a Gotham Award just yesterday. So, yeah. You know John David Washington's work. He's been killing it in recent years in Black Klansman in Tenet. He killed it in this part on Broadway. If you got a chance to see him there, he was amazing. And it's so thrilling to see him bring it to the big screen alongside his brother. Malcolm making his feature film directing debut unbelievable we're going to get into that and a lot of other things tonight please give a warm welcome to John David Washington everybody he's good ain't he he's good right buddy congratulations again thank you thank you a lot to celebrate over

Thanksgiving holidays and the Washington household, I would think. Yeah, yeah, it was, I know the greens and the mac and cheese tasted a little better this year for some reason. I think that's the shout-out, you know, Dear Mama shout out that Malcolm had. So talk to me a little bit about, I mean, we're going to talk a lot about this journey. It's been a hell of a road here. You brought this work to the stage, and it was a big moment for you. I want to start with the stage version of this first before we get to the film, because

I got a chance to see it on stage. I'm sure some people here in the audience saw it. Yeah, it was unbelievable. And that was a big moment for you. I know. You felt, I've heard you talk about this, why was it such a make-or-break moment you felt for you to bring this character

to life on the stage? A couple of reasons. An apple pie worth of reasons. It's, you know, he's the one of the American great playwrights, August Wilson, for one. We're at the Barrymore, you know, on stage, on Broadway, my debut. We got Sam Jackson, who originated the role of Boy Willie in 1987, then ended up, yeah, and then ended up being Charles Dutton's understudy when they brought

it to Broadway. Charles Dutton, I think he went on to one of Tony, and he's been public about, you know, how he felt about that, Sam. And so I just, you know, I felt like I had, I didn't want to let him down. I didn't want to let Latania Jackson down, who was the first African-American woman to direct an August Wilson play on Broadway. You know, so yeah, it was a lot of pressure in that. And for me, it was the character. Boy, Willie, the words I got to say and what August Wilson wrote.

I mean, it was the only time I believe that the character had to come to me. And that's harder because, you know, I got my technical stuff. I got all my backstory and all my stuff. but all I had to do was let the character come to me, and that was tough. And so to do that every night was quite a thrill and a great challenge. What do you mean by that?

When you say the character comes to you, are you talking about the words are there? Like, the work is there. You're working with some of the best writing ever made for the stage. It's just about not chasing a result and just letting it come to you in a way? Like, what do you, when you say you have to let the work come to you, the role come to you?

What are you talking about? So when you read and listen to August Wilson, there's just such as the musicalities there, it's just such a rhythm of the African-American experience, right? So that can seem kind of easy to play. Like, it's, oh, I know this guy, I know this rhythm. But when you start to dissect what his words are, like when he talks about, I went out and killed me a cat, and that's when I discovered the power of death. See, a nigga that ain't afraid to die is the worst kind of nigga for the white man.

So, like, thinking about that, what that really means in 19, 36 and connected that to even what it means now was shocking the connection and unfortunate that the times haven't changed that much and I had that kind of responsibility so I didn't have to go necessarily go what does that mean I know exactly what it means if you just listen to and bring all your issues and all your upbringing with those lines so is August Wilson taught in the house like do you remember a time that you didn't know August Wilson in the Washington household actually not not not really I

first time I saw I was really made aware of August Wilson was um he's kind of always been around and I know the piano lesson painting but I don't know August Wilson has said once he just liked the way those two words look together I mean that's the way his mind worked like it was not about necessarily the sound or what it means he just liked the words looking they look good together but I got to see two trains running in Atlanta and then I saw fences and I was hooked and then when I started acting I picked up seven guitars and I Just like one day, I got to have to do this on stage. So were you in kind of thing, the back of your brain building to this over a number of years?

You're obviously accumulating these great credits. You're working with Spike and Chris Nolan and you're showing off your chops with the best in the business. Is there like a voice in the back of your brain? Like, that's great. And yeah, I'm leveling up. But like at some point I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to try it on stage and see what I can do. Honestly, I thought it was going to be Shakespeare first, you know. I really wanted to do Taming of the Shrew, and I, when I started looking at this, I realized, no, this is my rites of passage.

So, like, at the time when I started studying, I studied at HBO Oliver, and she rest in peace. She was my teacher there, and that's when I came into August Wilson, like, as an actor, and I always thought, like, I'd do this one day, maybe, but, like, later in life, I'd be the doker character, you know, something like that. So it was more about a Shakespeare thing. And then when I found this to be a reality of what I can really do now, I was like, oh, my God, no, this is it. My life is just in front of me right now. And I felt a lot of pressure about that because some of the figures you mentioned, I felt like I've been so blessed and had great opportunities to do these works, these films, these incredible massive films. But people didn't really understand or maybe get who I was yet as an actor. I thought, maybe.

And you shouldn't think like this, but I did, honestly, maybe people will get me. maybe people will understand my artistry, if I can nail it. I mean, you have an athlete's mentality. We know that. I know that from our past conversations. Sorry about that. No, if you want a good drinking game, every time John David makes an athletic metaphor, take a shot.

It's just part of you, part of your DNA, right? Yes, can deny it. Is fear of failure a motivator? Is that something that drives you? Dang. I thought you said we weren't going to get too deep, man. No, I didn't. He asked me that backstage, and I didn't comment.

I didn't say anything. Yes, it is. It is. It is. I try, it's bad fuel, but it definitely is. And I thought, because of my football experience, I was told to just keep working hard and you'll get your shot, and I never did.

So I've seen people get cut, you know, the last week of the season. I thought I was going to be cut any day. So I don't care what number I am on the call sheet. I'm always like, man, is today today? am I going to get replaced? And so I thought, well, with this work, I can't be replaced. I won't have that logic or that kind of frame of mind anymore if I can get this right. So that was part of the motivation.

Okay, so let's talk about bringing this work from stage to screen. I mean, as remarkable as it is to see you deliver this performance, I got to say the shocking, most shocking thing for me is Malcolm. Malcolm, your brother, I mean, I'd never seen any of his work. He's his feature film debut. it's such an accomplished piece of work and it's it's we're seeing the dawn of a great filmmaker thank you yeah like it's really amazing um talk to me a little bit how this how does this come together like I mean we know what your dad has talked about wanting to create the cycle

on the on the big screen produce all of these works um so does like Malcolm raise his hand be like hey what about me like piano lesson I could this could be a good fit like how did it kind of develop I mean I've actually I wasn't aware of his origin story to this project and until this press tour. And apparently my mom told my pops that Malcolm has some ideas. I guess they had a conversation and he just wanted to write a script for it.

And then he did it like a sizzle reel. I saw that. I was like, oh yeah. Honestly though, I wanted, if I had known what I was doing the play, he wanted to do it, I'd have been like, yeah, let's go. I'm just a fan of his. The way he understands films and breaks films down,

I saw his senior thesis. He's directed a music video that was fantastic. So we, the family, have been wanting him to do something for a long time now since he graduated. Like, what are you waiting for? Let's go. Let's go. And he said this one.

I was like, really? This is, you want to start with this one? Start here? Yeah, like, Mike, you don't want to do a little cute, little short little, go get them project, but okay. And I'm like, I was right there with him. But I was excited. Then we talked and, you know, he showed me his lookbook and all that.

But I'm going to be honest. I didn't need to see none. that. I'm like, just go. Let's just shoot, man. I'm ready for you to do this. I don't need you to pitch me or anything. You know what I mean? I wanted to go. I wanted to go for him. The thing, and I'm sure you guys are getting this from the early moments of our conversation that I've discovered about you in our conversations over the years, and I gather this from hearing Malcolm talk. You live and breed this stuff. These guys love movies so damn much. It's true.

All you do is talk movies, my sense. So this must just be like fantasy camp, like working with your brother, going back. It must recall, like, childhood. Like, we talked about movies in our bedrooms growing up, and now we get to play with the toys and do this. Now, it's so crazy, just this whole run seeing him talk about his film, talking about his process, you know, and my process. I'm like, oh, it's okay, hi, my G. What is your process, young man? But because of our reverence, because of how much we respect, we grew up on this stuff, you know, on movies.

I got lost in movies. I remember getting mad at my mother. She took the twins, Malcolm and his twin sister, to see the movie Life. I don't know if you guys have seen that one. And they were, like, mad young. And I couldn't watch rated our movies until I got older, but they got to watch that. She took them to the movie theater. I was so upset because, like, Ma, they're too young to be.

I had to wait, you know, I had to, but she was like, no, but they had to see it. It's a classic, instant classic. I was like, yeah. But that's kind of like our life. I remember seeing like Mad Dog and Glory, remember? Robert De Niro, sure. Robert De Niro and Uber Therma. Like, I was watching it with them.

I knew I was like, I'm not supposed to be watching some of these scenes, but, you know what I said? If you've seen the movie, but I was just connected to it. I knew every, I think it might be a little weird, but I knew every line to the movie Glory. Yeah. Every line. I had the blue suit. I had the rifle. That's all I wanted to do.

So this is, you know, talking about Thanksgiving, this is what we do. We talk film all the time. What's the most underrated performance of Denzel Washington? What doesn't get, I mean, he gets a lot of credit, but there's some, there's some hidden gems in there. I don't say the most underrated, but I don't, I feel like he didn't get enough credit for, he played a lawyer, Beckett in Philadelphia. Philadelphia, like, you're right, I, like Jonathan Demme, with, you know, and he got his, Jonathan Demi close-ups, and he delivered that speech like the,

the big speech he has in the courtroom, a general public's hatred, our loathing, our fear of homosexuals. And that hair and that feature affected our client. And I was like, man, in the Q win the score. I don't know. Like, you can't have the Tom Hanks performance without his. 100%.

I love that film. I name-checked out when I got a chance to talk to Mr. Hanks recently. And, like, I think people don't remember also what that movie was at the time. Oh, so, like, he's on the other side of the LGBT, plus discussion, right? But he's a black lawyer in Philadelphia dealing with his own stuff and then how he learns and evolves as a person as a black man in Philadelphia fighting, using the law to fight for equal rights. I mean, it was ahead of its time.

And not to mention, we're not going to only talk about Philadelphia, I promise, but just to say, because I'm a film nerd like you, like Demi coming off of Silence of the Lambs, your dad coming off of Malcolm X, Hank's winning Oscars left and right, like everybody using their powers to tell a story like that at that time. it's the best example of using mainstream movie making, I think. And it's movies like that I'm trying to chase

that say something. If I could be a part of what I've been able, in my opinion, I've been able to be a part of some films that are saying something. Whether they connect with people or not, I don't think they can deny that these filmmakers I've gotten to work with have a point of view. And you can

get lost in those stories as a moviegoer, and that's what I live for. I want to talk a little bit more about, like I decided the ensemble and this, and many of them are from the Broadway production, and then you have folks like Corey Hawkins, Daniel Deadweiler, come on, amazing, all amazing. How does that shake up the dynamic?

Obviously, there are a lot of changes made because, again, Malcolm makes this feel like a movie movie, which is to his credit, but also Danielle and Corey, they bring their own flavor to this. Did it shake you up in a good way? I mean, it's like we added, you know, LeBron James and Dwayne Wade to the Heedles or something. Like, it's...

I told the sports reference, do a shot. Eat it up for me. I mean, like, Corwood was coming off of his Tony-dominated performance and Top Dog Underdog. He was incredible. I got to see him during previews. I mean, he's one of my favorite actors, you know. And I think about Mr. Pott's, who was in the play,

but the kind of actor that he is, he's done all the August Wilson plays. And then Danielle coming in and, you know, y'all saw what it is. You see the versatility there. So you just ups your game. You get excited when you get these kind of performers. And what they bring energetically, what they bring technically, and their physicality, and their pure joy and love for the art, you know, and I know it's cliche to say, but I really feel that when people are doing it, not because they have to, because they want to.

Or maybe they have to, but to survive. Maybe they have to because it makes them hold, makes them feel alive. You know, I can relate to that. I almost think of the scene with you and Sam and Ray singing. Everyone's singing at the table. It's like an action set piece in the middle of the film. It's like it's such a centerpiece of the movie. Can you give me a little insight into what it was like to shoot that? Well, as you saw the play, we took that from the play.

But it took on a different meaning being in the space in the house and bracing the quieter moments, you know, and really feeling in the stumps, not doing it for the audience, but doing it for ourselves. Sharing that traumatic experience, Parchment Farm, the prison system, which was basically another version of slavery legally. You know, a lot of men went through that system that didn't deserve it, you know, and it's a very dark, dark time for a lot of them. And that kind of trauma bonding, different generations of it is such a powerful thing.

And they're drinking and they're sort of laughing, making light of the dark times, but then they start singing the pain. And it doesn't matter where you're from, what color you are, you can feel that, I think. And, well, that's the hope, I shouldn't presume, but... We can feel it, yeah, we can say that. But honestly, so we felt it more or differently, I should say, during the film, and then filming it,

and then when we sat down and just left it quiet, that's when it really seeped in. Like, that's when I felt really connected to all my ancestors in that moment who've gone through that system or gone through slavery and just have survived the, you know, The South. You can get protein at home or a protein latte at Tim's. No powders, no blenders, no shakers.

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We talked about the linkages of the past three. the great Samuel L. Jackson who originated this role. It's such like an atypical role for Sam, which is like really exciting to see. We're used to kind of seeing him as kind of like the loudest one in the room, and he's the watcher, he's the viewer, he's kind of silent through a lot and conveys so much because he is Samuel L. Jackson, and he can.

I also know, I mean, he's been on the stage before, and I've talked to him about theater versus film, and he's very specific views. What did he share with you? me because I asked him about kind of like, you know, the old adage of like, do you play it differently on stage during film? Are you wearing the camera? He threw all that out. He said, there's no difference. Just do it. That's what he said to me. And he also said, and I love to hear your comment on this, he doesn't deliver variations, or at least he told me. He delivers what he wants

to deliver to the director. He's not going to do 12 different versions because he doesn't want to be screwed in the edit basically by giving the wrong version of a scene. Is that jive at all with what he said or is he lying to me? Wow, I guess I saw a little something different. Well, I, what I saw even more, what was even more powerful seeing it come together are his subtleties, which you really get to see in the film. And to me, that speaks to his versatility. I'm like, where is his Academy Award at at this point? Like, when you see, like, one of the best roles I've ever seen, one of the best characters I've ever seen was him in Django. He was insane what he was doing. And then you can cut to this, you know what I mean? It's like, that's the kind of

I'm talking about. That's the kind, and that takes experience, longevity. And honestly, what I caught most of it was, was at his age, what he's accomplished, he's still freaking cares. Right. You know what I mean? Like, and he's lived with this play, he knows everybody's lines. He's lived with this play for 30 plus years. You know, he's like, this is very personal. He's talked about how he relapsed because of the experience of having to be the understudy when he originated the role. So you're talking about pressure for me. But I saw the love. And once I got his respect. I was off to the races, both he and Michael Potts. But yeah, I, he's very professional and he delivers the way he delivers. I saw some variations, though. I saw some things he was

doing different. He, you know, he's got like a 15-page monologue explaining the piano and our family. He delivered that thing every night. And that's Samuel Jackson. He didn't have to do that. He was doing it off camera. Same energy, same thing. And I'm like, that's what I'm talking about. You know, when the actors, sometimes I get the trip in, they get the ego going, they act like they don't want to be a part of the company. I think about people, figures like him. If he's good enough to do it, then you have no excuse. Yeah, I mean, you can look to your dad, too.

He's going to be on Othello on Broadway. I mean, late 60s, like, he's done it all. He doesn't need to do more. Exactly. But he's about to work. All right, we alluded to kind of like the background, but I want to go back a little bit. So it sounds like in the back of your head,

whether you knew it or not, you knew this was going to be your path eventually, maybe. Like, was your act of rebellion denials? denying that and going the athletic route? Put me in your head a little bit of why you put off pursuing acting for as long as you did. Okay, let me see. Let's get the couch out. I was like, my goodness, you know, my dad got really popular, man.

He's the man. Malcolm X hit and my life changed. You know, I remember him bringing home a trumpet when he was practicing for Mo Better Blues. better blues. I remember when he dyed his hair red, when he was getting ready for these roles. I just used to love it. I just loved, you know, he walked me around New York spitting Richard the Third Lines because he was doing it. I saw him with the tights in the mullet, you know, just getting like, that was a magic trick. He don't speak like that at the house and look at him now. That's, you know what I mean? So that, to me, what was always about. But as he

got bigger, you know, I felt like society toward like my world changed and my relationship to it. People changed how they were treating me. So I felt that. this need to protect myself and feel the need to find my identity. So I found it through sports. So I thought maybe I'd take a back seat to the art or to acting because I want them to know me for something else. I want them to just know me. I didn't realize that you can know me through the work, but I needed to go through what I did football-wise first. But I think stuff started to change after Malcolm X. Is it true that your mom kind of was the one that kind of knew like you would eventually get to where you're at.

Like she saw in you your propensity towards the arts more than your dad even did? Well, I definitely told her first. I didn't tell my dad until I booked ballers. But, you know, we were running lines. My mom and I, she's like an acting coach in the way. You still run lines with your mom, don't you? To this day, every script I get that I know I'm going to do,

we're running lines and she's giving me the harshest notes. She gave me so many notes for the play, too. I'm thinking, like, we're just going to go to dinner and, like, talk about the week and how I did. She saw it, like, five times that week, by the way. And she's like, so thoughts, John David, you want to order the ribs? Let me bring out my script with some nuts here. Wait, you were there on Saturday, my way?

When did you? So, I mean, I love it. I mean, she cares deeply. In a way, I felt like I was representing her, too. Like, I talked about pressure because, you know, she has her master's in the arts. She was on off-Broadway, Jerry's Girls. I always joke with her. She ended up having me and missed the run of,

Jerry's girls. I know. That's the look. Your fault. So how about this? She didn't tell me that I'm leaving from Miami to go shoot ballers to start my life. And she tells me this story and says, all right, good luck. I was like, wait, what, my, you had me instead? I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. I'm going to

do everything I can't. I'm going to tell the rock. I'm doing this for you. I was like, but this is what I think about. Like, her mastery and her craft and what it means to be on stage and what it means to be an actor that right, that privilege. So, yeah, I include her in all of it because of that. A lot of that is the reason.

So you make the shift after suffering an injury. If I could snap my fingers now and you could be an NFL Hall of Famer instead of an actor, would you take that that bargain? What? You talk to the Hall of Fame? No, I'm actor all day, every day. Okay, I'm just checking. Yeah. Making sure the dream is real, that the passion is real. And shout out to all the Hall of Famers. That's great. And I love football. I needed football. for sure, but this is, I never felt more alive. So did you feel, when you step into that first audition, which was for ballers, I believe? Sheila Jaffe, yeah.

Do you feel alive, petrified when you're walking in the room? Do you feel the baggage of like, they know who I am, they know who son I am? Like, do you feel that hanging over you at the time? Well, I was pretty drugged up because I had, tore my Achilles. I was in a boot, so I was on some pain medication. So I guess that just, I'm like, you know, you want me to stand here there? I'm Ricky Jared, let's do it. He's so free.

I was so loose. And so I guess thank God, you know. But honestly, I didn't care because I felt like I was sort of somewhat rock bottom because I needed, I know there was open calls. A lot of football players being called up to do it. So I thought I had a way. The whole, the plan wasn't to get the job anyway. The plan was to get comfortable in auditioning and then move here and go where I went to HB Studios and study. It just so happened that.

I was doing pretty good and just kept getting called back. But I didn't think about that because I didn't have time to because I wanted it. It was either now or never. Is the learning curve huge by the time you're and your run on ballers? Do you feel like you're a different actor from that first down set? Absolutely. I was a different actor from the pilot because we shot the pilot when I went to school. Then I was doing plays and I was studying and doing monologues and this and that.

So going to hundreds of auditions getting told no. So, you know, I had a day where I played like six different characters in one day in four different locations. And I'm like, that's what I'm talking about. That's what the New York experience is supposed to be. That's what the hustle and bustle was. I loved it. I've never felt more alive. Even though I was getting told no and most of these auditions, I didn't care because I'm like,

it's not even about getting said, getting told yes. It's about, well, what did I work out today? What did I find today in that audition, you know, in that workout? out. So that's what I loved about it. So yeah, different actor from then to now for sure. This is a little bit of a tangent, but you mentioned New York. I'm just curious, because you grew up in L.A., but it sounds like New York is in your roots, in your family's roots as well. Is that fair to say? I love it here. I mean, I think about my mom just her hustling, you know, in the 70s and my dad hustling, like on, off Broadway, off, off Negro Broadway. Like it's, you know what I mean?

Like Sam would talk about that all the time too. And it was interesting being on stage. in 2022 with, you know, Corey Hawkins got nominated, Yaya got nominated, Sam got nominated, Steven Henderson got nominated. So, like, all these African-American actors that were just getting recognized for the work, I felt like, I felt a part of that. We almost, we're all on stage at the same time,

and I likened it to, like, when they were coming up in the early 80s. And, you know, I don't think I could get that experience anywhere else. So I love taking the subway. I love running my lines, because my dad, I remember my dad running lines, walking me out. walking me all around New York, so I do the same thing. It is funny, because, like, you see those scenes in the piano lesson, and you're seeing different generations of great black actors.

You're seeing the passing of the baton, like, happening in front of you. You can't help with the feel that. And I felt so supportive. I mean, Mr. Paz, I mean, my goodness, his resume speaks for itself. And another one, I think that I'm trying to scream, like, you guys, this is one of the greats, hello. And so getting their feedback and getting their support was great for me. I needed it.

So talking about quintessential New Yorkers, let's talk about Spike Lee, which is what an opportunity, what a great film finally got him, is way long overdue Oscar for Black Klansmen. Yes. Amazing. So when you know officially when Spike says, you know, you're my guy, that's got to be a moment. Yeah, it's a moment, but he doesn't say it like that. Give me your spike late. Let me see if I can do it. John, John David, this is your number?

I was like, yeah, what's up? By the way, I never hear from him. So I'm like, what the, yeah, I got a book. Where are you? I'm like, I'm in Ohio. I'm shooting a movie. All right, I'm gonna see you this book. All right, bet, click.

So I get the book, Black Clansman, I read it. He light pitched it, but I read it. I'm like, I can't believe this is real. This is a real story, this really happened. Yeah, you like it? I love it. Bet. See it is summer.

Click. That's the, you're the guy. That's his version of it. And we kind of just started rolling from there. Like, we just started talking about it. It's so funny. Spike is so unique, man. Being on the Spike Lee set, too, was so encouraging as an actor.

I've never seen so many black folks on a set before, like on every department, you know. And I was important for me to see in my first, like, lead. Yeah. To see in the kind of leader he is in the kind of, that's also passing. the torch down and showing, you know, my brother was, who was his assistant? He worked with on, I think she's got to have it, the TV series. So it's like a rites of passage as well. It's like HBCU for Hollywood, you know what I mean?

Totally. So the spike experience is unique unto itself. He really let you, like, go off the cuff. What I was so amazed at was what he kept in the edit. Some things, the behavior, sometimes I didn't know the camera was rolling. I might be doing a warm-up or something and he's using it. and it uses it in the film. Like, it doesn't make grammatical sense.

That was all Adam. Like, that was great. You know, I love that. Even, like, when he's like, say it, get it, let it flow. All that stuff was just going off the cuff, just flowing. And he uses it. And to me, it's just encouraging as an actor when you know you're doing something and they like it and they like it and they like when they use it in the edit.

Yeah. Well, that segues well into Christopher Nolan, who I know you contributed. You don't think of Christopher Nolan as be like, you know, improvise this one. But you have some choice moments in Tenet that you actually contributed. talk to me a little bit about okay so you get you get again this crazy amazing honor opportunity not many people get to be

the protagonist literally in a Chris Nolan movie does he deliver a script is it a conversation how does it go down yeah I got I got I was told to be at his house at a certain time and we're going to talk about something that was it

that feels like a lot of information for Chris Nolan meeting to be honest that's like I guess so yeah But, like, you know, my naivete, I don't know. I was in there, like, maybe he's doing research for something else and just wants to, like, learn about, you know, what I'm doing. I don't know. It didn't feel like this was for a movie, because we didn't talk about anything specific.

You know, we're talking, I mean, movie specific. We talked about movies, and we talked about, like, how I love the movies. We talked about our love for films and just life and sports and stuff like that. So after the meeting, I was like, and I'll say this, too. I was 30 minutes late. I know. I was 30 minutes late to the meeting I was like

Poletta would not be happy with you know so I'm like running up to the gate like sweating profusely I'm like this is it my life is over and Emma greets me at the door his wife producing partner and she's just laughing and I think she could see how panicked I was and she saw like

how sincere I was like I don't do this I'm not even scared about me not getting the job I'm scared about Pauletta she finds out that I was late like I'm just letting her down you know it was more about that but we end up staying two and two and a half hours um and then after that i got the call saying uh will you be the protagonist yeah good moment that's a good phone call really cool i went crazy we went we had like three

dinners like it was like a super bowl was talking about hall of fame i felt like i made the hall of fame literally so you read the script do you pretend like you understand every single thing in the script or do you say what the hell i mean you have a mind that operates on a whole other level explain this to me because it's a complex movie let's be real like absolutely well you got that you got that And I'm just sitting in his office, too. I'm like, I'm in Christopher Nolan's office reading a script of his, what is my life? I was just, I was about to go, you know, I thought I was going to do another season of ballers. Like, I know this was going to happen.

Like, so, yeah, I didn't understand that shit. Like, it took about three some plus hours to read it, you know. But I really did sincerely understand there's a feeling to it that I did get, which he talks about, don't trying to understand it, feel it. And I was understanding a way in. to the character. The fact that there's not a lot written about him, I kind of liked it. Now I can create, we can create together. And he kind of left that to me. He really trusted me with that. And I really love him for it because he didn't have to. That's

Christopher Nolan. He has his way. I'm ready to be active for hire. Yes, sir, no, sir, I'll stand here. But it's quite the opposite. He wanted me to use my instincts. Okay, so because I know I can always talk movies with you and we were basically doing this backstage. Tell me, what are you, what are you inspired by nowadays, movies you've seen, filmmakers, actors, what's inspiring you as a creative right now? I love Cassavetti's, like, faces. I was watching Open the Night a couple weeks ago, and there's just how he captures performance.

It feels like there's such a freestyle to the performers, but yet it's, you never know what sometimes it's contained. Sometimes they let it loose the way he captures the intimacy. I've been on a minister's society kick lately as well, what the Hughes brothers did and kind of them introducing a lot of new talent what he did with Chris Tucker and what was in the dead presidents

like how he was like getting your hair blowing off here something different like all that I just love that Was Cassavetes brought up when you're doing Malcolm and Marie a little bit? Yeah, well yeah a little bit yeah I was watching faces a lot then for that because I just was excited about possibly you know having that style

of working and yeah I just and really I've been on this Jonathan Demi kick as well as of like Good. Who were... Like I think about Jack Nicholson, right? For example,

I think about, I was watching Jumanji not too long ago and think about the great Robin Williams how he can jump into any genre he can do it all.

Serial killer, Miss Doubtfire. I was just going to say one hour photo people sleep on that one. Right, right, exactly. Or even the Christopher

Insomnia. And that's the kind of, you know, that's something very aspirational to be able to make you laugh and cry, maybe in the same movie.

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I'm very curious because the IMDB, which never lies, has no upcoming projects for John David Washington. What's cooking, my friend? Something's cooking. Tell me. I got nothing to report right now, sir. I have to discuss piano lesson. And thank you for coming out tonight, you know.

What are you trying to do? You said you go, I just, I'm, I. I consider you a friend and a colleague. I want to know what's going on. It's all good. What kind of experiences are you chasing, though? Not even being literal like a specific project, but like, I don't know,

are you chasing a kind of a feeling, a kind of an experience you haven't experienced on a film set? Yeah, I, yes. There's some collaborators I'd like to get out there with. There's some stories loosely based. I like Matthew Henson. I would love to explore, no pun intended. I had this idea of the first African American NFL owner

where that would be like with like a succession style you know just different I don't know what would my version of taxi driver be like you know what would that look like so I don't know there's just a whole bunch of filmmakers I would just I would love to work with and explore definitely want to go back to stage as well I want to do taming of the shoe play Petruchio

that's on the list what's the best football movie ever What gets it right? Man, I got to say any given Sunday, it was insane. That was, that is, it was more like a, the whole movie felt like somebody that was concussed. You know what I mean? It's just a, I don't know,

it's not linear storytelling. It was just such, it was like dreamy. It was, it was, it was, foky. I don't know, it was insane, man. I love that film. They got it right. The program also got it right in a scary way.

Like, you know, they're fixing some of that stuff in collegiate ball, but they got that right. And I love Friday Night Lights as well, Peter Bird. Yeah. I don't want you're alive, though. That's right there, too. I don't want what you're alive.

Like, James Vanderbeek? Come on now. Disturbingly good imitation. I did not expect that coming out of your mouth. You told me once you're a big Batman guy. Dream Batman character. Are you Batman, do you want to play Batman or a villain? We got a great Batman right now.

Rob Pat. I don't disrespect. Yeah. But, you know, if there was a, if there was a, you know, a joker from Compton or something. South side of Gotham, south side of, you know, Chicago, you know, I would explore. Were you a Marvel, D.C. kid growing up?

I mean, Tim Burton's Batman was like what was all about. And then obviously, Chris Nolan took what he did with it. But, yeah, I loved Batman. I had the toys. I had the Batmobile. I loved, I didn't know why, but I just loved Michelle Pfeiffer. Her outfit. Great costuming.

The costume, it was on point. Character. Yeah. Shout up to Michelle. I'm with you. I skipped school to see Batman on opening day.

The Tim Burton one. I did. And here I am. It worked out. It's fine. Oh, those. Now, did dad

tip you off that Ryan Coogler's writing a Black Panther role for him? I'm not going to... Listen, I love, like, what he's doing right now,

promoting the film and promoting the gladiator. I don't know where that came from. At least that's what I'm going to say on the stage, okay? But I do know he's not going to retire. We don't want him. I know I don't want him retire.

We don't want him retire. yeah that's true is it an aspiration to act with him like is that something that's the right thing the right thing I don't know I might be a little too intimidating I don't know but let me think about you can handle it

Pauletta I don't know if you can handle but let's go let's go I actually I wanted I did a film called The Creator and I wanted her there's a great movie and I didn't bring it to Gareth

because I didn't have the stones but I wanted her to play there's a psychiatrist in the film and there's a great scene that was written and I kind of wanted her to do that but I don't know she wasn't traveling either she wasn't going to come to Asia anyway even if we asked so

because it was during COVID still but I definitely want to do something with her. Amazing. Okay so I mean this is obviously a very joyful time because you're sharing this in the biggest possible platform everyone around the world is now able to see this but is there

a bittersweetness? Again you've been living with this role for five years this is goodbye to boy willy presumably but not goodbye to august wilson i think you'll return boy willing is never going to leave me never going to leave me and and you know people if they revisit it and they walk up to me on the subway because i take the subway then it's then it's then it's worth it it's all worth it but it's never going to leave me i i am ready to maybe do something a little lighter okay you know maybe you know maybe put on a cape i don't know but no but like i i it's never like mr pot said this

stuff never leaves you. And, um, you know, hopefully I can do the doca roll one day. Um, all right. We're going to end with this. The happy say I can fuse profoundly random questions for you, John David. Uh, dogs or cats? Where do you stand? I trust. Dogs, you know, they, they, they can be spoiled sometimes. I think I trust a cat. Wow. You've met the wrong dogs. No, it's going to be controversial. I think I trust a cat. Okay, okay. You know, because, you know, dogs, they get free room and board, you feed them, and then they sometimes they might bark, sometimes they don't at the, you know, a neighbor or somebody robbery. But cats, I just, I just, I trust, because there's like an understanding. Like, y'all ain't going to mess with you,

you ain't going to mess with me, but we're going to be cool. Okay, I get it. I guess. That's a tough question. What do you collect, if anything? I just have these, like, these sports figures. Like, I got, when I was a kid, I have actually I got a Ronald Cunningham action figure I got a

Herschel Walker action figure a son man action figure I still got him like on display yeah and the Ninja Turtles too

the original all the real life figures that are great I can't believe I just told you that what's the wallpaper on your phone my

my grandfather and my grandmother Denzel the first and Linus Washington It's funny Actually I did a film called Amsterdam and I wanted my hair to be just like that That's why I was going for it just kept it on there

Yeah so Last actor you were mistaken for Barney No I don't know I don't really It's one of those like If they see me they're like I think

They might move on or in New York You know they just give you the Right I love that The ultimate compliment. That's great. That's what, for real, though. Yeah.

Like, if you're all on a block or on this train somewhere, they just hit you with one of those. I'm like, yeah. What's the worst noted director has ever given you? Man, I'm not going to say that out loud. I've got some terrible ones, though. You don't have to name names. You might.

No, I'm not giving it up. Well, no, I'll tell you one, that was offensive. There was a note that said, can you be bigger, can you be louder? which I think translated as blacker at the time. And that shit was whack as hell. I hated that. But that was a bad one.

I got a couple other bad ones. That was a pretty bad one, though. Because he wasn't specific about it. I almost wanted to be like, well, what do you mean? But I didn't. I figured something out. And finally, in honor of happy, sad confused, an actor who always makes you happy.

You see them on screen. You're happy. Denzel Washington. It's a fact. That's... Comfort food. Movie that makes you sad. Up.

Yep. That one gets me. That was pretty sad. There's a couple out there, though. Dancers with wolves are getting my feelings. I love that movie. Oh my god, that score. Well, when they...

Also, when they, like, when he had to go back and get his journal, and then the crew was like, where is he? we don't know then they get the crew to go after them and that's such a good feeling I love that I love that scene and finally a food that makes you confused a food that makes me confused hmm that's your controversial take

what don't you what do you mean by confused well meaning like you see it on a menu like why do people eat this I don't get it like what oh mushrooms me too I hate mushrooms I can't do them yeah the texture I don't get it I've tried them fried.

I've tried them boiled, baked. Put them in some cheese. Put some cheese on top of it, around it, through it. The cheese doesn't work. Lowry seasoning salt doesn't work. That's a bad sign when coating it with cheese still won't make something good. Or Larry's seasoning salt, brother.

Like, it doesn't work. Our most important lesson of the night, don't eat mushrooms, folks. No. This is such a special piece of work. Congratulations, buddy. As you guys can tell. Yeah, spread the good word of the piano.

lesson. This guy's the real deal. I'm such a fan. He's such a good dude. Give it up one more time for John David Washington. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials

and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, killers of a flower moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we criss-crossed the country

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