Happy Sad Confused - John Lithgow

Episode Date: August 24, 2014

John Lithgow stops by Josh’s office to talk about “King Lear”, “Love is Strange”, and of course “The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai”. All of that and John reveals a never spoken of affair. Scandal! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 X-E-90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer

or go to explorevolvo.com. DC high volume Batman The Dark Knight's definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time Fear I have to make them afraid He's got a motorcycle

Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to my podcast, and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. I know I did. I got a chance to sit down with John Lithgow, who for decades has been so wonderful on stage, in television, and on the silver screen. He was kind enough to drop by my office in the last days of his performance as King Lear. He was performing in Shakespeare in the Park, sporting a ginormous, white beard. That production has since closed. It was a limited run, but it was really nice of him

to take some time out to chat with me. He was promoting a really wonderful small film called Love is Strange, which is well worth checking out. It's him and Alfred Molina, very much a slice of life story of two gentlemen in New York City in a long-term love affair who marry and encounter some unexpected difficulties. It's a good piece of work, and as I said, you guys should definitely seek it out. John Lithgow is great. He's done it all. I certainly have reverence for many performances in his career,

and he was very sweet to go down memory lane with me and discuss some of my favorites. If for no other reason, the chance to talk to him about Bukaru Banzai. Buckaroo Bonsai was awesome. That and so much more in this podcast. As always, guys, please hit me up on Twitter. Joshua Horowitz.

I want to hear what you guys have to say. And, of course, please, please, please, rate and review the show on iTunes. It is imperative you do that. That spreads the love, spreads the word. So thanks in advance for that. And in the meantime, here he is, John Let's go. Mani, feel free if you want to turn this off. Thank you.

Thank you. To relieve my previous office had a door that half of the first. time would walk in such a way that were I was locked inside and I would have to call somebody from the hallway to get me out oh god I don't know what message they were sending me did you hear the Steve all the Steve Post memorials last week no oh the radio yeah yeah yeah I guess this is way before your time and I used to work in radio with Steve Post oh is that way I and he has a great story about being locked in the bathroom when he was a classical music DJ on the 30th floor he sneaked

out out of the window along a ledge to get back in to be there before the record ended. Suddenly my travail seemed minimal compared to the Great Steve Post. That's amazing. Yeah. And he was a famous coward. He didn't have a courageous bone in his body. Yet he was able to get on the ledge. If there's not a full narrative, there's at least a short film in there somewhere. Thanks for coming in. We're rolling if that's cool. Well, that's fine. It's the casual world of podcasting. Yeah, we can give a little Steve Post shout out. There you go, there you go.

It's weird, when I, first of all, regards from Mr. Kevin Klein, who is going to be on the, we taped it, but the podcast is going to be up after this one. Great, great. And he was saying he was going to try and catch your leer. I know you're in the last couple days as we taped this. Yeah, yeah. I missed his, but it would be nice.

Sam Waterston came to see me. I saw his leer. We're in a little club. Yeah, it was interesting. He was, Kevin was saying, that it's, I mean, it's such an iconic, powerful role that at times, and maybe this is the horrible thing to plant in your mind in your last couple days, but he said it's even like it's wrecked some actors going forward. It's like, what do you do after Lear? Are you finding it to be a transformative experience? Are you, is it a demarcation point in a career? Is it? You feel awfully good that you've done it. It's the great bucket list role for actors. I won't get to the end of my career without playing King Lear now. I never played Hamlet.

But Lear is, it is a huge monster, incredibly draining. However, I did find rehearsing it and performing it, that it is doable. You know, it doesn't destroy you. It is a part written for an actor. You just have to just play it so completely emotionally balls out. and you know the first half has five colossal temper tantrums and the second half you go crazy and you die I mean it's a real gamut

but it's actable and it does move people enormously you know people are coming up to me they see me on the street on the Upper West Side these days and burst into tears I mean it really has affected people And that's what we're in it for. We're obviously going to talk about your lovely performance alongside Alfred Molina and Iris Sacks, who's always, if you haven't seen the work of Iris Sacks,

I have, of course. I mean, of course, you haven't. I guess I'm speaking to the audience out there, but, like, you know, I've done Sundance a few times, and it feels like every couple years Ira comes in and just has something extraordinary. He's the poster boy for Sundance. Exactly.

But, I mean, it's funny because as you talk about, and literally as we tape this, you are in the last couple days of doing this, this big performance at Shakespeare in the park. It's funny, from my perspective, when I'm talking to actors in the middle of a theatrical performance, it's like, I feel guilty talking to them during it. I feel like you should be in like a hyperbolic chamber all day long, and you're just waiting or in a coffin, and then it just opens,

and then you do your performance. Like, what, have you adjusted how you operate the rest of the other 22 hours a day or 21 hours a day over the course of your theatrical career? Very nice question, Josh. You know, I'm just sort of creeping out of my shell. I haven't been doing much of this because I have felt a little monastic particularly the first half of the run and the rehearsals when I was

now I can sort of smell the hay in the stable I know I will get through this but there was a certain fear like all the energy I have I preserved for those three hours in the evening I wouldn't talk to people during the day wouldn't have lunch with people and now I've relaxed a little bit

because I know I'm going to make it. Is that? But, yeah, it's, and it's not, it's not, like, emotional focus. Like I have to preserve all my, all my deep feelings for the evening. It's just pure physical. It's energy. It's pure, yeah. Well, what about something, I mean, this is a relatively short run.

I mean, you've done longer runs on the stage, too. I mean, you can't sustain that kind of thing. I would think for six months when you're doing something, you can't live the life of a, of a, of a, I don't think, I don't think I could sustain Lear, but I, it's not, it's up there with the hardest things I've ever done, but it's not the only one. I mean, I've done two Broadway musicals, which were equally draining. Sure. And I did Dirty Rotten Scoundrels for a year and a half, and that was easily as taxing as King Lear.

Sure, yeah. It gets the same response from the audience, too, curiously. And Butterfly, I would say, is right, is Lear-sized. And that was, I was younger. I mean, I'm also 68 now and pretending to be even older than that. So it's, you don't have that stamina. I can't ignore the amazing mane of a beard that's sitting in front of me today. Don't you wish your listeners could see it?

I mean, Google Beard John Lithgow. I'm sure you're going to get thousands of photos popping up. And it's longer now than ever. It is a thing of. You know, I looked at the beard two weeks ago, I think, nah. that's nothing this is just like a week's growth for you right that's months in the making clearly

I'm such a mess I look like such a bum are you looking for a good hobo role right after you finish no it all gets shaved and haircut on Monday morning at like 8 a.m. like after our Sunday night performance

and then I do an entire day of press feeling like a complete freak your hands are going to be all over your face I'm going to be so self-conscious Like a bald mouse all day long. Are there any pluses to having this insane, awesome beard? I think I look ruggedly handsome. I mean, I don't want to make your head explode, but you do.

Well, it clearly identifies me as the guy who's playing King Lear. That's true. It makes me feel awfully good. I would think this is the biggest it's ever gone in your life, right? You don't have the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been growing since. since February or March.

Yeah, I mean, you talked to four, I mean, about what theater affords you in that you get roles like Lear, you can beat the guy, you can have these amazing performances where you're the lead. And what's one of the novel things about Love of Strangers

that you and Alfred Molina really have two juicy, awesome parts to chew into, that must be a treat when something like this comes along. It's pretty special, yeah, And you're absolutely right. I'm so accustomed to playing somebody's father, father-in-law, grandfather. I now have a long list of major, major stars who have played my children. But that's not exactly a resume that you go around showing to people.

Do you keep a photo of like Paul Rudd in your wallet? It's a show-all. As if he's going to your own. Right. Like baby pictures. I should. But it's an amazing list by now. I'm sure.

Superstars. Exactly. I now have James Franco and Matthew McConaughey and Amy Adams, Leslie Maddie. That's right. They would be nothing about it. I gave them burke. I gave them life. You get all the perks without the child support.

That's perfect. There must be an honorary Oscar for that. So do you seek out a role like this one in Love is Strange or does it just come your way? I mean, how does something just manifest? So many jobs that come your work. way just fall out of the sky and this my agent called and said ah I think I've got something really special um off the record you know I'm not because it's not off the record at all there was another

actor playing the part and a major actor an actor I idolized and he fell out I don't know why he pulled out because it's the most beautiful role but I'm glad he did and when it came to me Fred was set for it and that this role was empty so I read the script and it was it's a beautiful script absolutely everything you see in that film has the has the beauty and power of that script yeah you get it reading the script so i you know it just trembled in my hands i i really hadn't read a a script that true and real since terms of endearment and it's i mean what you say is true it lives in the real world it's it's it's about sometimes the the practicalities of life and and and just

The things that, it's so funny, we just don't see depicted on screen ever. Certainly not among old people. Right. Older couples. A portrait of a long, long life together and a relationship that's sort of gone beyond love. It's become a kind of symbiosis. Right. And had you met Fred before?

Oh, yeah. Fred and I were pretty good friends. We weren't close friends because we hadn't worked together before, but we have very, very, very, very good friends in common. I'd seen him backstage of his shows and he of mine. I'm a huge fan of his work. And we're similar, we come from the same gene pool. We're both theater-born character men who work both in America and England. I play Englishman. He plays Americans, you know. And we're, we look around for things that are, that are other actors wouldn't touch, you know. We're character men.

We play other people than ourselves. So when I saw that I read his part and mine in this script and knew he was playing it, I thought this is going to be just gold. It's obviously a New York film as a New Yorker. I appreciate that. Are you New Yorker? Do you live here? I live in L.A., but have an apartment here.

When I do theater, I prefer to do it in New York, and I do that all the time. Do you have a strong preference either way for New York or L.A. I would live in New York if I weren't married to a UCLA professor. I'm in Hollywood for all the right reasons, as far as I'm concerned. I'm a faculty spouse. So, and did you do the festival circuit in this one? This premiered at Sundance. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I went to Sundance, Berlin, Tribeca, and L.A. Film Festival. Amazing. I saw it four times and cried every time. Do you find that invigorating? I mean, from my perspective, I've been to Sundance I think the last seven or eight years and it's just such a, I mean, beyond the hardship, quote unquote, of the snow,

it's just such a, it's a great energy to a festival where every year careers are made and, you know, a beast of the sudden wild can come out of nowhere and suddenly a star is born. It's something special in our jaded Hollywood system that that still exists. Pretty remarkable, I mean, and all credit due to Robert Redford

for seeing the potential and importance of that to do something that's created something that's so far outside the orbit of the business that then became an important element in the business and yet retained all of its

kind of maverick qualities he feels that it's lost a lot of that but I was there for the first time this year and man I'd never seen anything like it yeah it still has it I mean I remember like five or six years ago that it was like the infamous year that like Paris Hilton showed up for no discernible reason she was promoting a movie literally called

the haughty and the gnaughty. It was not being featured in Sundance, but she was there nonetheless. And I think that was the year that poor Robert Redford probably lost it and said, what's become of my... My baby. Exactly.

Well, he should still be very, very proud of it. Exactly. Remarkable. And look at what it did for Love is Strange. Exactly. That came out of Sundance as such a hot film. So I'm curious, I mean, we talk a little bit about the opportunity

that is afforded you by something like Ira's material. Has it been frustrating over the years that, I mean, was there a kind of a point of reconciliation where you were like, okay, if I'm going to get these meaty leading parts, it's going to be in the theater and that's fine, or has it been a frustration point over the years

to think about it that way? You know, I've been frustrated from time to time. It's an occupational hazard of the business. You're never doing as well as you think you should be doing, even when you're doing great. Right. But I regularly count my lucky stars. The interesting thing about my life,

if I can talk objectively and look back on it, is that it's been so varied. And I've always, out of, oftentimes out of pure fear, I've just gone and done something completely different because it was available to me because I felt that I wasn't succeeding in some other area. You know, we're looking out your window, Josh,

at the Marriott Hotel. That's built on the side of the Marascoe Theater where I had my Broadway debut in 1973. Wow. That was my first big break. I opened on March 7th of 73 and won a Tony Award on March 25th. That was my Broadway debut.

That was one of about five huge big things. breaks I've had in completely different areas. You know, if you think of World According to Garp, let's take a moment to think about Robin Williams, and then Third Rock from the Sun. And now, who knows, perhaps love is strange. I mean, these things that just come along, they couldn't be more different one from the other.

And it's all, and then throw in things like, writing best-selling children's books and performing for kids at Carnegie Hall. I mean, all these are such, you know, I'm just as insecure as the next person. I'm sort of restless and think, oh, I've got to do something. Nobody wants me for anything, so I better do something. And I do something completely different. And it opens up a whole new horizon. A lot of this had to do with Third Rock from the Sun. I mean, you mentioned Third Rock, and what strikes me about that character among others,

and even predating that, there are others I can cite, it's such a courage to look like a fool at times in roles. I mean, you're, and, you know, it's such a far cry, obviously, from Well, The Strange, which is a totally different kind of performance, but you can go so big and, and seem to revel in it, and, I mean, where did that courage come from, you think? Was it?

The theater. absolutely from the theater I mean I have I have a lucky background my father produced Shakespeare festivals and I worked for him from the time I was a little boy right up until the time I was 20

and after that performing in Shakespeare festivals where I would play five six different roles in the course of a summer Shakespeare wrote extremely different plays. He wrote Hamlet, but he also wrote comedy

of errors. He wrote King Lear, and he wrote Mary Wives of Windsor. And in any given play, there's all these wacky characters, especially the little parts. I was a young actor, so I played all the little parts. Nim, Froth, Poins, Pinch. They all had one syllable, you know. And they were wildly different. Gildenstern and Kate's B, and I would play them on successive nights in repertory. And that was sort of the fun

of theater for me. Well, I've sort of approached my career that way. And I love, you know, people tend to compliment me on the street for how many different things I do rather than for one single thing. And I, that's my favorite compliment. And, and I love doing it. I always feel like I want everything I do to be as different as possible from what I just did. This weekend is the perfect example. I close King Lear on Sunday night. We have a big premiere for Love is Strange on Monday night. Now, what could be more different than those two performances, except that neither of them is a comedy? You mentioned people appreciating the variety in your career, yet I wonder if you can, how you can read people. For instance, if you look at me,

Take one wild guess on what the one performance is that resonated with me as a child that I'm going to obsess over for at least the next five minutes with you. Buckaroo bonsai? Of course. Of course. You're one of my people.

Of course. I mean, let's go down this rabbit hole for a moment because the adventures of Buccaro Banzai, if you haven't seen it, pause the podcast, go see it. Because it does hold up, and I know that for a fact,

because I'm such a diehard, I want to see you when Kevin Smith, moderated something for a couple years ago. You were there that night. I went there. I dragged my wife. I'm like, she's like, what's it called?

She did appreciate it, so we're still married. What a fantastically bizarre, deranged movie. I saw it when I was eight, so that might explain where I am now. But you were an adult man, so what's your excuse when you read that script? Well, the script completely bewildered me. In fact, I turned it down. I could make no sense. sense of it at all. But then I met with W.D. Richter and Earl MacRouch, the director and

writer, respectively, and I loved these guys. And I remember Rick saying, you know, why don't you do this? You know, where's case scenario? You know, you'll simply have a great time, you know. Maybe nobody will see this film, but you'll always be glad you did it. And I just thought so often you just go with with the people who pitch it to you this happened with third rock from the sun when I met Bonnie and Terry Turner they were friends of mine I they'd been writers on S&L when I'd hosted it become friends my agent said they want to have breakfast with you and I thought okay I'd love to see Bonnie and Terry I went to meet them at the four seasons in L.A and there were Bonnie and Terry and

and Carsey and Werner and, you know, the whole gang. And I realized I've just been ambushed into a pitch or a sitcom. How do I get out of here? And Terry began by saying, it's about a family of four aliens. And I thought, man, I am so pissed off in my age. In five minutes, he'd totally sold me. And it was because of him and Marcy Carsey and Tom Warner, just great people. I will, I'll go with these people.

I want to work with these people. This happened with Buccaro Banzai. It was so much fun. I mean, we laughed so hard. In fact, there is a sequence in Bucco Ro Banzai between me and Chris Lloyd when you actually see me totally break up in the corner of the...

Fortunately, the focus is not on me, but if you are a true Bucca Rizanai freak, you will try to find that moment. I have my marshalers for the rest of the day. We were just laughing and laughing and laughing. And, you know, an actress of a certain age saw this movie. She had been in My Father's Company. She'd been in Comedy of Errors where I'd played Master Pinch.

And she said, you were, that was just like your Master Pinch when you were 17 years old. So you asked where it'd come from? That's where it comes from. Did it come, I'm trying to get the sequence right. Did this come, am I right? This came after, right after the couple Oscar nominations. combinations in succession too. Yeah, that's right.

Which is kind of amazing to think of. Garb, Terms of Endearment, Buckaroo Banzai. This speaks to your judgment. And I mean that as a compliment. Or lack of judgment. And you throw in footloose in the Twilight Zone movie. Those all happened in a space of about three years. Amazing.

And that happened when I moved out to L.A. To be with my UCLA professor wife. So I sort of backed into that one. That one, I'd love to mention that one too, because that also had a impact and a great filmmaker, George Miller, who I got to meet for the first time recently. He's back doing Mad Max, which I could not be more thrilled.

He's a mad genius. And so gentle. The stuff he creates is so manic and amazing, but he's, I don't know, could he talk to me a little bit about that? Incredibly sweet, man. I haven't seen him in all these years, but I was very, very fond of him.

And that was quite a significant film, the Twilight Zone for me because that was the first time I'm sort of known now for a grand excess but until then every filmmaker I worked with hadn't been many of course they just

kept telling me to keep it down keep it down you're not performing for the last row with George nothing was enough he would give me directions like I'd like to see I'd like to see your face crack

Like, boy, if you've got the right actor And if I got the right director More, more, more, you know, it was fabulous And it's just this wild out there performance Which is very much rooted in reality Yeah The one, at least one other film that I want to bring up And another astonishing filmmaker that I have such reverence for

Is Brian De Palma Oh, yeah For a couple times And the one performance I do want to bring up Because I don't think it's brought up enough is Raising Kane, which is, you're the guy in that one, and you're more than the guy, you're the guy, the girl, you're a few people in that one.

Five, in a home. Yeah, I was going to say, so it's five different performances, in a sense. I don't know, just what are your memories of that? Because De Palma is such a stylish filmmaker, and his films really hold up. There's no better master of the medium, but was that a golden opportunity to kind of rebel in multiple roles? Yeah, yeah.

And he called me early on, he said, this one's for you John and we I've worked with Brian three times over the years first time in 74 and raising cane in like 89 or so

and in the meantime blowout in like 81 and I loved working with him he's probably one of the few actors who loved working with I was going to say because his reputation is not as

difficult but he's very specific and very He's not difficult at all. It's just that he's not cuddly. Right. He just doesn't bother with the usual moist protocols of a film set. You know, he's just, it's a business, it's very business-like for him. And like Hitchcock, for him, all the great fun was over as soon as start, the shooting started. He'd map out of his shots.

He knew what's a necessary evil. I think that's what Hitchcock called the shooting period. Yeah. He would sit there in his director's chair with earbuds and listening to his walkman all day, listening to Bruce Springsteen and just waiting until they needed him to say action. And he, I mean, he was perfectly fine. I mean, he gave you everything you needed and you knew you were in fantastic hands because he hired great tech people, great cinematographers. He was making a terrific movie. You just knew that.

But he didn't seem to be enjoying himself. I would go over to him and say, like, how was I, Brian? He would say, you're fine. I said, no, no, I mean, but was I good? Was I good? Yeah, he was fine. Really? Oh, come on, Brian, give me a hug.

You know, I would just tease him and force him into being a human being. A bullshit artist like all the rest of us. Do you find that the needful? or I know that was kind of ingest, but does the need for validation ever go away on the set? Never, never. It's crazy to think because, I mean, you know, you obviously know what you're doing to say the very least,

and yet I guess it's just a human response. Oh, I am just as prone to terrible insecurity as anybody else. It's very hard saying your first lines in a rehearsal or on a film set. I, you always, you always think you're a jerk, you know. It's always such a wonderful surprise and you realize, wow, I've done something really good here. Have you ever taught acting?

I mean, it seems like you're such a love of the graph. I have never taught. I have a weird sort of aversion to teaching. I think it's because my dad sort of fell between two stools. He was, he was an academic and a theater preparation. His, most of his theaters were university-based, like the MacArthur at Princeton or the Antioch Shakespeare Festival. And the pros tended to think of him as an academic, and the academics tended to think of him as a theater professional. And I don't know, it's made me avoid being a teacher.

I talk to students plenty. Sure. And I go and drop in and visit, but I don't presume to teach them anything. Did your dad, did your dad talk shop with you at all about? your performances or was it um talk shop well it talked i guess about the craft about what you were doing or was he not was it too close in a way it was uh i don't really remember him he directed me i directed him it was a business you know it was it was carpentry he he he his career kind of peaked at about the age

60. He lost his last good job and he never was able to it's a kind of young man's game starting theater companies goodness knows. And it was just at the point when I was taking off.

He was 50, he was 60, I was 30. We're 30 years apart and that's when the changing room and all those other good things started coming along. He never felt anything but pride and joy and that and I you know he had the opportunity to see a lot of what I did and the first time I won an Emmy award I dedicated it to him and it's wonderful to

have that opportunity to pay back he was a very gentle man he was in a way too too gentle for the business he never he never came and fought with the dragons in New York or Los Angeles He always worked in regional theater, and he had very, very fine taste. He had a very high bar for quality work. And when I started doing, you know, commercial crap, I just, I never felt that he was judging me in the slightest. So it was a good dad. Did television change your attitude perspective? I mean, Third Rock was probably the first significant role.

And obviously, Dexter has come since again, talking. about the variety of roles. It doesn't get much different than those two. Did you talk about that initial meeting with the creators of Third Rock. Was there any snobbery about TV at the time? It was one thing I was just never going to do. I was not going to do episodic TV.

I was so intent on not being pigeonholed in one role. I considered Carol O'Connor a great, great actor who could never escape Archie Bunker. but first of all the premise of third rock was so gloriously liberating I mean here is a guy trying to figure out who he is and how humans behave so he tries everything right in a way it's like playing different roles in this desperate need to fit in which this was wonderful for a character man and I loved Bonnie and Terry they made me laugh so hard uh they literally changed my life in the space of five minutes selling me on that premise.

Because at the end of that meeting, I said to them, you know, if I do this, you will have completely changed my life. And you will have gotten me at just exactly the right time. It came on the tail end of like three penny dreadful villains in a row. played ricochet, cliffanger, and raising cane. And I was a little worried that I was becoming this kind of cornball villain, sort of the new Basil Rathbone or something. And I thought, wow, this could be, this will blast that one off the table.

And it was just delirious fun. It was six years of laughing, just laughter. all the time. I don't know if you're able to add the, because he really wasn't even your son, but Joseph Gordon-Lev, deserves a little photo in the wallet as well next to the other. Yeah, yeah. It must be a marvelous to see sort of what's come of him. Great, great joy, just a great joy.

And he's, everybody can tell, everyone agrees he's just handled it so beautifully. He's made this transition better than anybody. There's been nobody like Joey. I'm the only one who still calls him Joey. is there uh i know you have another uh play in the offing yes yeah is there you've crossed we are off are you the kind of person that needs to put another name at the top of the list something to get to at a certain point i really i really don't do that i mean i'm working on a couple of things developing a couple of things that are extremely exciting um and two of them

are theater and three of them are high-end television and one of them is a movie that I've written or adapted from a book and that's a lot more than a couple of things. None of them may happen. One of them may happen. What's most likely to happen is somebody will get some other idea and just present it to me and I'll say yes. Because that's when all the best things happen. That's how Love is Strange happened. in our last remaining moments, I've got this strange Indiana Jones Fedora with a series of random questions

sitting in front of you, sir. Would you care to dip your hand in and see what fate has in store for you? Oh, yeah. What fun. And when do I get to take pictures of being smart, happy? Happy, sad and confused. You've been warned.

I've been forewarned. In 20 years, I will be 88 years old if I'm very, very lucky. Will you be acting? I'll probably be acting. acting, my fondest wish is that I die during a curtain call. That's a good way to go. Can we noteworthy?

Shall we try one or two more, sir? Sure. This is kind of fun. We'll see. My first celebrity crush. My first celebrity crush. Or your latest celebrity crush. Who's on your mind right now?

My first That's an interesting question I was madly in love with Lee Woolman And then I met her Worked with her And had a year long affair with her And this is the first time

I've ever said that out loud I believe she has a new movie coming out I can bring it up with her Toronto That she's directed I think so Yeah It's fantastic

Give her your regards Please give her my regards I don't think we can top that. Maybe we should end it there. As we said, the movie is called Love is Strange, and that's very apt. What could be more apropos? It is such a pleasure to have you here, sir. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you, John. Get back into your hyperbolic chamber, you've still got a little weird to do.

I've got to spend some time recovering from this interview. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, killers of a flower moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country from the Miami

Drug Wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago in New York, to arsonists, kidnappers, and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music,

and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. Find Infamous America, wherever you get your podcasts.