Happy Sad Confused - John Turturro

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

There's a reason John Turturro has been a muse for the likes of Spike Lee and Joel & Ethan Coen. He's one of the best to do it. Now he's chatting with Josh about his entire career including his Emmy nominated work in SEVERANCE. Recorded at the 92nd Street Y. Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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worst note a director has ever given you. Tense up. You know, do it like you did it in another movie. That I feel like telling them, you know what? You know, when did you get another job? You know what I mean? It's just like, you can't ask me to do something I did before. That's like cheating on somebody.

You know what I mean? It's like, no. Come up with your own idea. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys. Today on Happy, Say, Confused, one of the great. great, a first-time guest on the podcast, the one and only John Turturro. He can do it all,

comedy, drama, theater, film, TV, talking severance and his entire career with me. Hey, guys, thanks as always for checking out. My little old podcast, Happy, said, confused. It took a while to get him. I don't know how it took this long, but here he is. Today's main event is John Turturo. Great opportunity to chat with him at 92nd Street while, a live event. keying off of his recent Emmy-nominated performance in Severance, Season 2. He was nominated for the first season. This is a great chat. More on that in a second.

First up, as I always want to remind you guys, if you haven't yet checked out our Patreon, please do because that's where we put all of this stuff early before anybody else can see it. Access to live events, merch, autograph, posters, all sorts of cool stuff, depending on the tier level you want to try out. It helps us make more stuff here. So go to patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. Give it a shot. Why not? We've been making podcasts for over 11 years now.

So, you know, every little bit helps make more of the fun stuff over here. Okay. Speaking of fun stuff, this is such a fun event we had. Oh, my God. This was a New York event at the 9th 2nd Street Y. As I said, first time he's ever done the podcast. John Turturo, I mean, this guy has done everything. I say it in his introduction, but I'll just say it here quickly.

You know, when I started to love film in the 80s and the 90s, I mean, this guy was everywhere. He's still everywhere. But really then was when he was discovered and championed and had this amazing symbiotic relationship with Spike Lee, you know, starting to do the right thing and just being in all these films. The Cohn brothers, you know, Barton Fink, Miller's Crossing the Big Lobowski. Oh, brother, where art thou? Um, he was their muse. Uh, and since then, you know, continues to kill it, whether it's in TV, stuff like the night of, um, you know, his, his character roles like in things like Adam Sandler films or Michael Bay films. And then like, you know, out of nowhere can, you know, again, shock us with an amazing leading man performance, a romantic lead. He can, he really is one of those guys can, that can do it all. He's also, also happens to be an authentic born and bred New Yorker, so much like character and soul. to him you'll hear it in this conversation um really great stuff about his upbringing his parents who sounds like we're amazing characters uh i feel like it just gets this one gets better and better as it

builds you know because a lot of these folks that you hear on the podcast or see on the podcast as you guys know i've done a lot over the years john i haven't really so you know you got to have to build that trust and uh i think we did we got there and uh by the end i was just loving every anecdote and story so there's there's something in here for everybody all aspects of his career um it's a really cool one as i said he was kind of also spreading a good word of severance well-deserved emmy nomination uh for season two he's in contention this guy should have a ton of awards by now for my money so whatever you know it is what it is uh so yes without any further ado let me take you to a live event at the 92nd Street Y. Here is me and the one and only John Turturro.

How's it going, everybody? Welcome to the 92nd Street Y. I'm Josh Horowitz. I host a podcast called Happy, Say I Confused, and you are inside of it right now. Thank you guys so much for coming tonight. Thank you. I'm so excited. I have a first time guest on the pod. I don't know how I've been doing this podcast for over 10 years and never had this actor who is so formative for me and so many other cinephiles. John Turturro is about to walk on stage, and this man has been doing the work continually at the highest possible level for so many years.

When I was coming of age as a cinephile, particularly in the 90s, when I was first kind of becoming obsessed with film, he was first making his bones becoming the go-to guy for the Cone brothers and Spike Lee. And in film after film, in project after project, he always delivers.

He's a chameleon. He is now being recognized, again, with another Emmy nomination for this fantastic performance and the most obsessed about show on television, Severance. We're going to talk about all of it tonight. Are you guys ready?

All right. By the way, we also like our New Yorkers around here. So give it up. We're a New Yorker, a great actor, a great guy. Mr. John Turturro, everybody. Here he is. This is a new space, right?

This is a newer space. Welcome. Thanks for doing this, John. Well, my pleasure. I was watching a bunch of interviews. I saw Riz Ahmed, your co-star in The Night of, say, not only does he do a very good John Turturo impression. Oh, really?

But he also says that John Duturo likes a lot of cooking metaphors when he talks about acting. Cooking metaphors. Should I expect a lot tonight? Is that something? It's possible. Okay. Drinking game every time a cooking metaphor comes up tonight.

There is. Yeah. He's a formidable guy. He's a hell of an actor, isn't he? As are you, sir. Congratulations on severance, all the acclaim. Talk to me a little bit about what it's like to be John Turtur walking the streets of New York, though.

Because I would imagine you get, you know, you could have one person, to talk about fan theories from Severance and another person quoting the Big Lebowski. Like, what is a day in the life in New York for John Turturro? I think most people are pretty polite, actually. They don't really, you know, sometimes people greet you and warmly. They don't always ask for a selfie and things like that. But it depends what you've been doing recently. Yeah, obviously, Severance has a lot of people who are obsessed with the show and Irving and, you know, and Burt and stuff. And so it's different times things happen.

When I did The Night of, there was a lot of people, you know, would be talking to be about my eczema and things like that, which I don't have, fortunately. You know, the Coen brothers, that's a whole other thing. And, I mean, I think that's the only, the Lobowski things, is there are people who are really, you know, it's like a religion. And so there's lots of people who have tattoos of me on their bodies as the Jesus. Should I show mine right now or should I wait until the end?

And sometimes in very intimate places. And I had to say, like, that really is kind of horrifying to me, you know, The thing like, you know, I mean, like the inside of your thigh. That's a commitment. But the Jesus, you know, he's a religious figure, so. He lives on. He's going to live on. He lives on, you know, who the hell would ever imagine that that would have occurred?

But I did, when that movie came out, it was not very successful here. But I started getting very strange male from men and women and prisoners. things and it was very risque a lot of the mail that I got of things that they wanted me to do to them and I would be like what the hell is why am I getting this you know mail and uh but you know thank goodness didn't turn into anything worse than that so uh touched the nerve they say if you can affect one person even a prisoner it's a good thing sometimes you can have small like a small but very dedicated but this this audience has become uh different thing. But severance has, I think, because the show poses questions, doesn't give

answers, that people fill in the space, and they have their own theory about what's going on. And the other day, Ben and I did something for an NPR show, and someone wrote in, and they were in the intelligence field, and they said, this is exactly what my life is like, because I have to do this work in a place that I can't share it with the other departments and when I go home I have to kind of like delete everything. I cannot talk about my work at all. It is not science fiction. This is exactly how it is. And both men and I were sort of like, wow, you know. So the metaphor becomes real for some people. It's real for certain. I know people, I have a friend whose father was like in the CIA, and you know, you can't share anything with your family.

Well, I would think also, I mean, to apply it to an actor, I mean, I don't know if you're the type of actor that kind of like deletes the hard drive when you go home or you take it home with you. Well, you have to sort of decompress or whatever. And as you get older, you realize that's not a good thing, you know, to come home and it's still there. If you've done your work correctly, you've, you know, expunged it. It's come out.

It's in the work. and then you don't want to, you know, bring it home. So talking about this show in particular, and then we'll circle back to your remarkable career. I mean, this is such a singular phenomenon. This is a very specific show, a very odd show, and yet it has resonated, as you said, with such a vast audience. I mean, do you have a good read on what's going to click with an audience

or not at this point in your career? Are you surprised by the success of this? I knew my agent, Christina Besdegas, read it, and she thought it was really an interesting script, and I knew it was original, and that's what drew Ben to it. And by then, they had been working on it for years, so I read the first, like, three episodes.

And I thought it was unlike anything I had ever read before. It had certain kinds of ramifications of all the films that I had seen before, but it was its own thing. And I think we've had the time and the resources, And Ben really has pushed the whole show. He's really been fastidious in his approach and also exploratory. We've done scenes, you know, many different ways.

And the first year we were there, the set was so, it's so oppressive. I mean, people have come on to visit the set and you see after two hours. They're like, got to go. You know what I mean? And it's like, got to get out of here. You know what I mean? And we were doing that during COVID. And so the crew had not only masks, they had shields.

And we would rehearse sometimes with masks and then, you know, but we, there were lots of people we never saw their faces for like six months. And it was really strange at first with the COVID situation and that set, too. So I didn't know if it would, but I thought what was going on was really interesting. It also, I mean, look, it's a bit of a leap of faith when you John. into something like this. It always is. It always is. It always is.

But a film you at least see the beginning, middle, and end. You know the entire arc of your character. Here, it's open-ended when you start. Yeah, I mean, you know, Dan Erickson was kind enough, even before I said yes, to write sort of a back story to the character, why he was severed, and that allowed me to do a lot of research so I could have, you know, fill in who this person was, and when he would go to work, what would be left of that, you know, and what would be left of that? Because everyone switches somewhat, but maybe not to that extreme.

And beyond that, everything is pretty grounded, but you're in a reduced state. But you still have your, I think, physicality. You still have your vocabulary. You're not completely in second or third grade. You know what I mean? But you are reduced a little bit to maybe your essence. And I had been a substitute school teacher

for one year before I went to Yale Drama School. And I did juniors at Rice High School. And then I did a fifth and sixth graders. And it reminded me of being with fifth and sixth graders, especially that was girls and boys. And there was something about the show that reminded me of that dynamic. I'm curious like, what do your scripts look like?

I mean, Chris Walk and your buddy famously removes all punctuation. Do you... I have a lot of notes in my script. I highlight everything. I highlight all my cues. I underline all my operative words. I have a journal where I kind of keep all like the history of the character. Sometimes I have music.

I warm up. I warmed up a lot for Irving my voice, and I wanted to be really disciplined and regimented because that was part of his background. and I had really strong ideas. I wanted the mustache, and Ben was like, well, I'm not sure about it, and the makeup lady, you know, supported me. No, I do physical things because all of us have a center in life, you know, whether it's your forehead or your chest or your pelvis,

you know, and it's because of the psychological baggage that you've carried over so many years. And I think when you find the character's center or whatever, it can help you look at the world. And I've always, I've worked that way on stage, and one of my early teachers was really, you know, encouraged me to use my body. I like using my body. And it's still a starting point, it sounds like, for any character. Yeah, because when you do something physically, it does trigger other things. Right. You know, and even if you work on something vocally, I mean, when I first did it,

Ben was really, like, nervous. And I said, well, let me listen to it, and then I can always adjust the sound it a little bit. But I wasn't about to toss it. I was like, this is the choice I make. And Stella Adler says, like, there's a famous quote that she said, you know, your talent lies in your choice. And sometimes you can make a choice, and it can be disastrous, you know, because it's not a choice that allows variety.

Right. So as long as you make a choice and you can do a lot of things with it. Well, that's all an actor has is your choices, I would expect, right? Because, like, if you give nothing, you're making a decision. Yeah, well, some people don't make, like, maybe, you know, there are some actors who are more chameleon-like. There are some actors who you believe in any role, but they don't maybe transform. Right, a naturalism, like a Gene Hackman type

who's just like, is that person. Yeah, but Gene Hackman is one of the great actors moment to moment, you know, so you have to be moment to moment within that. But, you know, I basically, I like doing things where you can disappear a little bit and also reappear. Right. You know, and that gives me, I don't want to just look at myself. You know, I'm, like, bored with that, you know.

You've lived with that guy for a while. Yeah, yeah, it's enough of that guy, you know what I mean? So, yeah. This audience in New York saw before we started this great clip from, I think it was episode four, I would imagine that's a highlight of the season for you. You get, not only do you escape the fluorescence lights of women. Yes, I loved being outside, and it was a very, it was a long shoot. We were, you know, upstate.

And, you know, it was, we were in the mountains, and it was invigorating, you know, to do that. And you were on the lake and everything, and Lake Minnawaska. And it was after kind of a vulnerable time in my life, and it was nice to be in nature. exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 XE90 plug-in hybrid from $599 biweekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. When your investors, customers, and workers demand more from your business, make it happen with SAP.

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I was raised in Hollis, yeah, and then Rosdale, yeah. There you go. So I grew up like the exact opposite, like of Spike, you know, because we're born three weeks apart. And he grew up in an Italian neighborhood. I grew up in a black neighborhood. Gotcha. So when we met, we were like, where you been? Or you've been all my wife? Yeah. So, you know, looking back at your childhood, I mean, was your family surprised at your trajectory? I mean, were you a performer, a big personality? Was there

that in the family or what? Well, I had a pretty expressive family. My uncle's, my mother's brothers are musicians. My mother was a singer. My father's family, they're really full of, you know, know, you know, big personalities. I mean, and my father had the capacity, you know, like, sort of like Lee Jacob, George C. Scott type of, like, actor. He was a builder, but he was, he had a very big voice and a big, and he had a vulnerability to him, and both my parents loved movies. So, you know, I used to watch, you know, movies with them, you know, mostly movies from

the 30s, 40s, and 50s. Right. You know, and then I would go to the movies sometimes in the 60s. But we used to watch a million dollar movie, which was like the first VCR, because it was the same movie five nights a week. The honeymooners, which

has influenced so many people in this business, I thought was a very, like, sort of was like my mother and father. We used to call the show Mommy and Daddy. Yeah, actually. And it's a very truthful show. And to I like, I love, I love Lucy too, but the honeymoon was a, was a big, you know, influence to so, so many people.

And so I never, I never thought, you know, I never knew anyone in the movies. Right. It wasn't until I started going to see theater that I thought, wow, you know, I can almost touch that, you know. And that really sort of opened me up in a different way. So when did, when did your parents? kind of exhale and say he's going to be okay. Do you remember that point? Well, my father always wanted me to be, you know,

like an architect or doctor, lawyer. You know, I mean, that's, you know, he came from Italy and, you know, that's what he wanted me to be. But, you know, once they saw me do plays when I was in undergrad school in SUNY, New Paltz, and, you know, my father would always, he'd be tired because he got up so early, so he'd always yawn, you know, in the middle of the play.

Oh, great. You hear this guy, oh, you know, I need. as my father. You know what I mean? And he'd talk sometimes in the audience. But they were pretty, you know, honest when I did something, you know, that they thought was good, you know, and they responded to it. But, you know, wasn't, then I went to Yale Drama School. So they saw me do many, many, many plays. I would have been acting such, you know, a long time. And before I actually, you know, made a movie or two or whatever. And when I did to live and die, in LA, for example, that's one of the first roles I actually had, like a real part. I took my father to the screening. And in the movie, I took all my friends. It was all guys, because it was a guy kind of movie. And my father was smoking, you know, and watching. And I was running through the airport and really fast. And Bill Peterson was running after me. And my father just like yelled right out loud because he was like, you know, he's a builder. You know, so he was like,

go John he was like you know what I mean he was like they can't catch John he was like you know he's got long legs he was like that you know what I mean and the whole audience was like dying laughing and I was mortified I was like but of course he had the perfect response for that movie because that was a kind of movie that's a propulsive yeah I remember it yeah and then after the movie Andy Warhol came up to me and he said oh I really liked the movie and my father's looking at him he goes who's this guy like this he goes he looks just like an albino You know, tells me like this. And I'm like, this Andy Warhol, dad.

You know what I mean? It's like, and Andy Warhol thought it was the funniest thing. And so now, in retrospect, I realized, man, he was really, he was like unconscious in his way. But he really enjoyed, he didn't get to live that long to see me do a lot of things. But he was excited. He got to meet Andy Warhol. Yeah, he got some. I mean, when I think back to the first stuff I saw you and you mentioned Friedkin, I

I mean, you were working with some really cool directors early on. And then, I think the first one, I think the first time I remember seeing you on screen, and I want to show a clip, and maybe this isn't usually. Five Corners? Not Five Corners, which is a great performance. This is even before that. This is the color of money. Oh, yeah.

And I love this movie. This is like, I know this is not the first one they talk about for Scorsese, but it's one of my favorite Scorsese movies. And you've got a cool role in this one. Let's take a look at this. I think it's around like 86. Terturo, Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, The Color of Money. Let's take a look.

Play him again, I got him again, I really got him on the rush. One more, right, Chief? Eddie, I gotta split. You're going. I gotta see somebody, huh? Oh, come on, one more game here.

I'm bust. So let's just play, play, play. What? Just play for play, man, no money. Play, play. Show me what you got here. Vincent. Hey, Julian, I just want your best game.

I think maybe the money is what's throwing you off here today. Okay, how about I win no money? You win. I'll throw you 20. No? What's the matter with this guy? All right, Carmen, who's next? So handsome.

Oh, my God. I mean, we're just like, you know, we rehearsed the whole movie with a video camera because Paul Mee and had done that with Cini Lamette for the version. Right. I want to hear you from the microphone, so everybody can be. And so we rehearsed in our movie,

we actually saw a lot of the role, too. And Scorsese was nervous. around Paul Newman also. Really? Oh yeah, he was really nervous. And matter of fact, the first day, you know, he would tell these jokes, and sometimes they would be very long jokes.

And Marty would look at me like, he didn't get the punchline, and either did I. So, you know, he'd be like, it's funny, right? It's funny. You know, he was like, funny, right? And then, so the first day of shooting, I think it was that scene, I had to put my coat on or something. I was a little, I was nervous.

I was wearing with Paul Newman. I mean, Tom Cruise was still, you know, pretty young at the time. And Marty said, that was, he was trying to shoot, like only do two, three takes. And he goes, that was very good. Very good. Excellent. And he was very nervous. That's how we

talked. You know, and he said, but he kept tucking his shirt. You know, it was like, because he was nervous, you know, and he said, the next take, just do me a favor. He goes, just put your jacket on. I just died laughing. And I said, I'll just, I'm a little nervous. I'll just put my jacket on. I said, maybe

it was a little, too much movement or something. And I said, listen, Marty, I'm a little nervous because every time I turn, I look at Paul Newman and I see, like, somebody up there likes me, the hustler, you know, HUD. And Marty goes, you think you're nervous. He goes, I got to direct him. He goes, you know, understand. Because I see every movie goes right across my head. He goes like that, it's the silver chalice. He goes like that. I was dying laughing. And so then we got, you know, and Paul Newman was great. He was, I became like friendly with him, you know, afterwards. I did some charity things with him. and he was such a lovely guy

and he was telling me one day he said it took him like 25 years to learn to really relax on screen. He said, I was always working too hard and he just was really an interesting guy and you know, it was like a, it was a thrill you know, to work. Then I worked with Robert Redford

after that and, you know, but he was, you know, it was a big experience for me and he was very, very kind very kind amazing yeah he won the Oscar for that one as I recall great great film um so you mentioned Spike before and that obviously so he he saw five corners he saw five corners that's the reason he he wanted me in uh because I I threw my mother out the window so that gets you that gets you that gets you the racist to do the right thing that John Patrick Shanley wrote it I just did it right I mean so wasn't involved it was I didn't make it up you know what I mean so uh but uh and what did you guys

I mean, you talk about kind of being, having kind of reverse, you know, upbringing, but like, what did you connect with as just contemporary? We just, we had so many references, you know, whether it was the Knicks, you know, growing up in New York, and it took a while, you know, to get, when he asked me, do you want to be in the movie? And I said, yeah, and he said, well, who do you want to play? And I said, I really, I think I would like to play the racist character because I think that's what the big part of the movie is about, you know. And so, and I kind of understood that. And then I worked into pizzeria for a while, you know, before I did it. And then we really got him, and I was very, got close with Ernest Dickerson,

who was the cinematographer, and Winn Thomas. I mean, a lot of those pictures in the Wall of Fame, you know, those are my pictures, a lot of those pictures, yeah. And so Ruth Carter, and so those are people who've been friends of mine, you know, since 88. And, you know, it was a great cast, Giancarlo, and it was just... Yellow, yeah. But then I remember that in rehearsal, we started adding things.

And then I, the more relaxed I got, I started sharing things that maybe he didn't know, or he hadn't heard. And then I would tell him, and he would say, oh, we got to put that in there. You know, things that were really incendiary at the time. So the one thing about it was we would go to Dailies at L.I.U., Long Island University, and the whole crew and all the people from craft service, they would be invited. So we would watch the same scene four times. So, of course, people are watching you do something, and they're seeing it four times, or maybe five times.

and so then some people who hadn't the experience of working on a movie started to think well that's who you are you know what I mean and there was a woman in craft service and it was very very hot it was a real bad heat wave that summer

and she just she would pass me by when she had water and I said can I you know and finally one day she turned and she said to me she said I hate you she said yeah she said I I hate you so much

You know, and I was like, so I told it to Spike, I said, Spike, I said, you know, she thinks some Pino, you know, and he was dying, laughing, you know, he thought it was the funniest thing. But I was, I was a little worried at first. I thought, well, suppose people, I take the subway, you know, people, and it was, and it predicted that Joe Klein being one of the people, that there was going to be riots and all this stuff. But I've never, ever had an adverse relationship from that movie. Ever. It stands the test of time. It's a classic. But it was exciting movie to make and upsetting at the end. But we had a great group of people.

All right. I have a clip. You and Spike, obviously also a performer in the film. Yes, he says some things that are pretty horrendous here. But it's just acting guys. Don't worry. John Chirotr and Spike Lee and do the right thing. Check it out.

You know, I've been listening. I'm reading. You've been reading now? I read. I've been reading about your leaders. Reverend Al, Mr. Do. Sharp tone. Jesse.

Keep hope alive. That's fucked up. Keep hope alive. Hey, that's fucked. Don't talk about Jesse. And even the other guy, what's his name? Faraman, Farrakhan. Minister Farrakhan.

All right. Sorry. Minister Farrakhan. Anyway, Minister Farrakhan. Marconn always talks about the so-called day when the black man will rise. We were one day, what does he say? We were one day rule the earth as we did in our glorious past. That's right.

What past you're talking about? What did I miss? We started civilization. Man, keep dreaming, man. Then you woke up. Pino, fuck you, fuck your fucking pizza, and fuck Frank Sinatra. Yeah? Well, fuck you too and fuck Michael Jackson.

I guess we haven't come that far from that film. For my money, the Cohn brothers are maybe my favorite filmmakers of all time, and you've appeared in a number of their films. Miller's Crossing, they write, I believe, Barton Fink with you in mind. They wrote Miller's Crossing, too, yeah. Amazing. Barton Fink, I feel like every frustrated writer's favorite film of all time. It's one of those.

I mean, you obviously vived with them. You knew, I think, Francis from Yale, Francis McDormand. Do they direct you much in the course of your films? What's the vibe on set from Joel and Ethan? They've seen me do a lot of different performances on stage, and sometimes they write things for me that they haven't seen me do. And we share a kind of dark sense of humor, you know. And, you know, I think the more human you can make their characters,

the more, like, horribly, you know, funny it is and can be moving, too. But we just really get along, you know. And I've directed one of Ethan's plays on Broadway. And so it's just, you know, like kind of a – you develop a shorthand and a language, and you're not – I'm not afraid or a shorthy. to try things with them and to make myself look, you know, and not, you know, good, you know, or heroic or whatever. I've really kind of just been really uninhibited for them. I mean, in a deep way, where other directors say, hey, could you do something like that?

And it's like, no, you have to kind of earn that. Yeah, no, I've talked, I mean, Sam Jackson's been here. I remember he always talks about, like, you know, if you don't trust them, they're going screw you in the edit. And if you feel like that's going to happen, you're always going to be protecting yourself. But, you know, these are characters that you're just going to go, you're going to go out there. I mean, I think I've learned from doing things on stage that I like to do that. I like to take a risk and see where it lands. And you said, look, we talked about Lubowski, that Jesus, you thought, you were out there, to say the least, in that one.

I had done a play that they had seen, and it was, that was sort of an inspiration for them. And I had done a play with, I did these two plays in this trilogy by Ronaldo Provade called La Poud de Vida. And I played, it was a mother and son, and then a guy liked the Jesus, his name was Chino and this little boy. It was about their relationship. Got it. But is it fair to say that after you did that performance, and you saw it back, you said, I went too far, or this is. No, I was, I was, like, shocked. Because they, I was trying all these different things for them

because they kept telling me about the role, but then I started it, it was so small. They said, well, we know you're going to come up with a lot of things for it. And I did, and I didn't think they were going to put all of that in. And then the way they edited it, you know, it was just, you know, whatever. And the movie is, it's a really, really funny movie. It holds up. And most comedies do not.

That's, that's like a philosophical. comedy. And like the fusion of like Jeff as a man as a human being and Jeff as a performer. Yeah I mean that is just that's a you know you you talk about performances and all these people who've won awards you know I mean Jeff didn't win like you know the tiniest award for the dude you know but the dude is in our psyche and it's a great great performance yeah I mean there's a lot of other great but Jeff I'm a big fan of Jeff I wouldn't imagine you know this, but, you know, you played a relative of mine once, John.

Can you guess? Herb Stemple? Herb Stemple? Oh, I didn't know that. Herb Stemple, a cousin, removed basically from me. Of course, one of the leads in Quiz Show. I love Quiz Show so much. Directed by Robert Redford.

Another good looking guy. I mean, come on. I mean, yes. And then he was a good director, and my goal. God, he used to, you know, smelled good. Oh, my God. You can smell it off the screen. I would do anything for it.

But that is such a beautifully made film, meticulous in every way. I love doing it. Did you, what did you make of Herb as a character? Well, I was the only person cast for a long time. When I saw the kinescopes, I was shocked. I was like, oh, my God, I've never seen anybody like Herb in a way. And then, I think originally he won a Paul Newman. and Tim Robbins to play

of Vandorans and Tim was doing Shawshank Redemption and Paul Newman was on the fence about it you know and then then we were waiting and waiting and Redford told me

you know it would be great if you could gain some weight and I started gaining weight and then he said well you know you could play the other part you could play the oh Rob Marrows yeah and I was like no no I'm going I'm all in for Herb you know and I gained a lot of weight

and had my teeth and my hair thinned and discolored but I I loved working with Robert and he was very very helpful and that was a hard I mean he has very high voice verb you know I can't

because I didn't warm it up now but you know he he really spoke like this and you know Josh was a distant relative of mine But, I mean, I would warm up, and the whole crew would imitate me, like, me, and I would do these things. Because I had, it was all in his, in the nose. And, you know, and I also, I would talk to him, you know, at length.

And, you know, as I was getting heavier and heavier. And he was very innocent guy. And if you watch the kinescopes, I mean, they made it more of the tragedy of the wasp. Right. But Van Doren took to it like a fish in water. And Herb was always awkward about it. So they definitely, and there were different versions of it where Herb was a little bit more aware of that.

But I loved, it was a great group. Chris McDonald, too, was great, you know. And, of course, Rave was, that was a big find. When Redford showed him the tape. He was coming right off of Schindler's List. tape of him in the Shinla's List haircut. And he said, what do you think of this guy? You know, we'd have a lot of time alone, me and Mr. Redford.

So it was, he's a very interesting man because he didn't get to do all these eccentric characters, but he could play almost all the characters in the movie, you know, when we'd be alone, so. you finally ask for that big promotion. You're in front of your mirror with your Starbucks coffee. Be confident. Assertive. Remember eye contact. But also remember to blink. Smile, but not too much. That's weird.

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Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. One of the many things that I love about your career is, like, you know, you can work for the Redfords and the Cone Brothers and the Spikeleys. And yet there's also a segment of your fan base probably that knows you from, like, Adam Sandler films, right? Like, do you see, like, any difference? Yeah. You do. Not with Adam so much, but some, like, maybe Transformers films. Right.

I consider that my, if I was a builder, that's my electrical job, sort, right? And then my other jobs, that's my plumbing work. You know what I mean? Like, this is like quiz show is my plumbing work. You know what I mean? So you have to have a toolbox. But when you do these things, it's like less of an intricate portrait that you're painting. It's more of a sketch, you know.

And within that, you can do a lot of things. And it's really hard, you know, to do it. With Adam, I've had fun doing like the Zohan or Mr. Deeds. I mean, you get to work with Nicholson in anger management. That's something. Yeah, well, he had told Nicholson that I was going to do the film. Oh, so you were bait. So he was a big fan of my first movie, Mac.

And he was like, oh, Johnny's going to be in it. Great. And then Sandler called me up. He said, you know, Nicholson, he's excited. You're going to be in the movie. You know, he wants to do the movie. And I was like, oh, so you blackmailed me. So then, you know, when I met him, you know,

he was really funny and he was really nice to me and I was a huge fan of his and stuff and I did ask him when we were doing the movie you know so how's it going Mr. Nicholson you know he wanted to call me Jack man you know call me Jack and I said how's it you know what's it like he goes I said what's sort of the tone of the movie goes well let me tell you Johnny there is no tone he goes you know I've been all over the map

man I've been you know in the stringent I've been in a, you know, a Pirandello play, and he was, you know, he had all these metaphors and stuff, but, you know, I told Sam, I said, you know, he's, there's no tone, you know, he says, you know, so I just, you know, but he was great just to be around, and he was so giving off camera. He was, he was, he's like a real, I've always heard that. Really giving off camera. A few good men, the famous story is that he did, like, all, like, yeah, he did the reverses, even when he did anything. Oh, yeah, it was really great. And, you know, he loved my first movie. He, he was. He was. He was really great. And, you know, he loved my first movie. He. He. He. He. He. He He had sent, told me he saw it three times, and I was really, you know, these are people that have had major, you know, effect on you. And when you meet them, it's, you know, you have to digest that because they're part of why you do what you do. Have you reconciled that you have now shifted into that for actors, that younger actors that you work with on a set, probably?

I don't know. I, you know, I can't, that doesn't really help me, you know, I, you know, I'm sure like, I don't want to be like, well, I know what I'm doing now. I'm sort of Riz Ahmed, looking at you on set and says, I helped Riz because Riz was under a lot of pressure. And I, you know, he would vent and do it. I said, well, you just have to speak up for yourself. You can do it in a reasonable way.

You know, if you don't like something, if you feel like you're being pushed around or whatever. And Riz would sometimes vent. And I kind of, you know, showed him a little bit of, how I learned to navigate things. Because I worked with some directors who were really abusive, I mean, physically abusive, and, you know, I mean,

so then I learned, I said, well, I have to speak up for myself. You know, otherwise, you know, it doesn't really help your performance if you're being, if you're tense and everything. And that was kind of a school of directing. For some people. It was a type of director, too.

I think you mentioned before, the chiminos and the freedmen were regressive men at the time that were not. I mean, I work with, like, Francesco, Rosie, and he wasn't that way. He was a masterful director, but he would show you all these things to do physically and stuff, and I loved working with

Francesco. Where it is in the Venn diagram doing something like for Matt Reeves and the Batman? Is that... Well, that was, you know, I put a lot of work into it. I was reading all the comics and, you know, the comics that had inspired that and stuff, and I took it seriously, you know, and

I also went to the source material, you know, too. And I had, I told him, I said, I'll do it if I can wear these glasses. Because I said everyone else has a mask and I want a mask too. And I don't have like really cold

eyes. So I know that. And so I, you know, when you have that shield, that helps you. Sometimes one thing or it can be something physically or a costume piece and it can, you know, it can free you know, in a way. But I

take it seriously. It's tough to, you know, you You passed on the penguin. Was that just sort of... No, I had done it already. You did it. I felt like I had done it already and, you know, I liked what I did. I felt really good doing that, man.

I don't know if I wanted to be in, you know, to continue and be in another series and things like that. I like to come in and, you know, and then do my thing and then leave. And then I go. Is there a director that's eluded you? Who's on the list? Where's the... There's a lot of... Where's the...

I don't know. Coppola I never, you know, worked with. Like, there's people, you know, Tarantino, you know. Sometimes I've turned things down. And then if you turn something down, sometimes then the person thinks you don't, you know, want to work with them. And sometimes it's a family decision. Right. And sometimes or someone's sick or something, you know.

Is there one you regret that you can say? Yeah. There's a few. Yeah. I mean, I turned down. I didn't turn down Stanley Kubrick, but Stanley Kubrick called me up for eyes wide shut,

and I was, like, shocked that he knew all about me, he asked me about all these actors, and I was like, because, you know, I had just finished La Tregua, the truce, and I spent five years preparing for that,

you know, while I was doing other things. He knew all about Primo Levi. We talked about Primo Levi, and he said, you know, I think, you know, you're a terrific actor. And I said, well, thank you. He goes, well, you are. I was like, well, I can't walk around my house saying that to my wife.

She'll hit me over the head with a frying pan. And he said, well, I'm going to send you a script. And I think, you know, you know, and I hope you like it. He goes, you'll like it. And then what do we do? I said, well, you said, but I heard you may do a movie next year as a director. I said, I don't have them. He said, I don't have the money.

So I didn't say to him, he said, I wrote this part for you. I didn't say to him, whatever it is, I will do. But I was so excited. I said, I'll read it, and then we'll work it out. I was talking to him like a normal purse, sure. And he said, well, how can I get you the script? I said, well, FedEx it. Because what if you're not home?

I said, well, I know my FedEx man. His name is Ray, and he throws it over the gate. And he said, well, that's unbelievable. I said, well, do you know your FedEx, man, you know? So I was just trying to be a normal person. And anyway, he told me, he wrote the role for me. He wanted me to do it. And what do I think of Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman?

And I was like, all excited. The next day, I heard that I wasn't available. I was unavailable because I didn't tell him, you know, no matter what. He's used to getting that immediate. That's it. And I didn't know that at the time. And I just tried to be a regular. So I would have liked to have worked with him,

just because I'm a big fan of his and see how I would have survived doing a hundred takes. You know what I mean? That would have been a year of your wife. It would have been replaced or whatever. Harvey Kitell lost his... Yeah, lots of people lost it.

There were a lot of people who were replaced. Which role would it have been? I was the piano player. But there was a scene at the end. They didn't have. Yeah, they didn't have. And I guess he was in three different parts of the movie and they think they cut that.

But anyway, so, you know, I would have liked to just had an encounter with Stanley. Sure. You know what I mean? So that's something that, you know. You've got plenty of great experiences. But you got a Stanley Kubrick conversation.

That's more than most of them say. And he wrote it for you. And we talked about Primo Levi at length. Amazing. Yeah. A couple audience questions. What books are you currently reading? One of our audience members would like to know.

What books am I reading? Well, I've decided to read Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment, which I've never read. Because I've read some of his other books, but I'm reading that book. And I read, you know, I read all different kinds of authors. I'm a book person. I've also discovered he's the biggest WNBA fan, new WNBA fan. Well, I'm a basketball fan, and I've always followed a women's college.

But now I have liberty tickets. And I love it. I love it. It's fascinating to watch. It reminds me of basketball before it was played above the rim. And I love the teamwork and the passing that goes on at the game. I think it's a really, really good basketball. Yeah.

Excellent. Would you rather have a New York Liberty Championship or an Oscar? Well, they already won the championship. Okay. But if it would be like the Knicks championship, you know, that would be a tough one. That's a tough decision. That's a tough decision. It's a long time coming.

Yeah, I mean, that's a good. communal victory for everyone. The fact that you're even considering that as the option means you're thinking of your fellow Knicks fans. Well, it's a great thing, the collective. I think the individual thing, you know, it's terrific in some ways. But it really takes teamwork to do something that's really good in sports or in a movie or in a play. There's a lot of components to it.

And I don't think it's right where people say, well, you know, this is the best. It's, you weren't doing it by yourself. You know, someone sat before a blank page, wrote it, and there's a designer, and there's a lot of choices that goes into that. And I love when I see beautiful teamwork, where if I watch, you know, something,

and everyone is excellent in it. Like, you can't, you don't know where to look. And that's, there's something great about that. I mean, yeah, you're only as good as your, your collaborator, your co-star. That's right. That's why I wanted to work with, you know, with Christopher Walken. I was going to say. Listen, you know, Ben said, you know, you're going to have a love affair with someone.

And I was like, Chris. I love Chris. And I love working with him and I've directed him and I've watched him on stage. I saw him play Elvis Presley in the play that he wrote based on National Enquirer. articles. But he's dressed as a woman, Elvis, and as a waitress, and he never really died. But, you know, we have a lot of fun. I need someone I, you know, admired when I was younger and I still think he's a wonderful actor.

And we just laugh. And I thought, well, if there's someone you have that simpatico with, it's easy to be in love with them. Because if you're going to laugh with someone, then, you know, it's maybe, okay, you're attracted to someone or whatever. And he's also very, he has a fragility to him. And I just thought, I don't have to act. I don't really, I can just, you know, be with him. And he's like a jazz musician because he spins it. And so you have to be really on your toes.

In the moment always. Yeah. And he doesn't like, you know. Like, he didn't want to, like, really, like, kiss and stuff like that. And I was making fun of him one day. I said, you know, Chris. I said, it's the only reason I wanted to do this. I said, you know, was to kiss you. So he was like, not doing it, you know?

It's a cliche, man. He was like, you know. But, you know, it is interesting that in, you know, when we see these scenes and stuff like that, it's always the things that lead up to something that is kind of evocative or sensual or even, you know. But when we see people actually do it, we're like, yeah, well, they're not really doing it. You know what I mean?

They're kind of doing it, but not really, you know. But it's the things that... It's the anticipation, yeah. It's the anticipation. And so I've loved, you know, working with Chris. I mean, I really... I have a very warm spot. Is he as much of a Luddite as I hear?

Does he have, like, a phone? He doesn't have a phone. I've shown him my phone. He's amazed by it. He's like, oh, my God. You know? This is great, you know, and it's just, and he's very humble actor. He talks about all these performances, which I've seen him do, you know, that this was good,

this wasn't good, I'm not, you know, great at Shakespeare, and he just has a sense of play. And a lot of actors, they don't, they take themselves so seriously. they forget like little kids when they play they're great you know you watch them play they believe it you know they're in it and so Chris has the experience but he also

has that playfulness of a child well it makes you great but also let's factor in don't you want to enjoy this don't you want to have fun until the end like the day it stops being fun right why are you doing this right you know it's it's a tricky balance

you win because people's egos and all kinds of things and I want to be good it was a great director I've did many plays with him the Cherry Orchard and Endgame master builder Andre Belgrader

and he used to always tell us you know don't try to be good just do it do your thing you know but don't put that on you focus on the results that's right focus on what you're doing

you know what I mean and and it's very wise words We're going to end with the happy second. If you use profoundly random questions for you, John. Okay, fine. Are you a dog or a cat person? Dog or a cat person?

Well, I had a cat in the night of, and bam bam, and everyone loved to bam, but I'm allergic to cats. So, uh... Dogs by default? So, yeah, but cats are more independent. Okay. So, yeah. Do you collect anything?

Yes. Let me rephrase that. What do you collect? Sadly. Like everything. No, I have a huge vintage movie poster collection. I'm really, I need more walls. I need, I need, Dennis Hopper had these sliding walls

that Frank Gehry made in his house and he would have all these great paintings that could slide in and out. I need that. I have that. What's the most prized movie poster you have? What's your crown? Oh, there's a lot of great ones I have.

I mean, I have like Charles Lawton, Polish poster of hunchback of Notre Dame, which I consider one of the great, he's one of the greatest actors of all time. And that's a great performance. So yes, and you know, when I first started doing, you know, movies and things, I would keep, you know, all those cinema magazines

or American film because I was like, wow, I'm in the magazine and now I have all these magazines. What am I gonna do? You know what I mean? What am I gonna do with these magazines? It's so, I guess when you don't have a lot growing up, It's hard to throw things away, and, you know, so I'm putting things, I want to, like, give my archive away to, like, my undergrad school if they want it. So it's, but I don't throw things away easily.

No, I got it. I get it. What's the wallpaper on your phone? The wallpaper. The background on your phone? Oh, my God. Well, actually, my son and I, we bought Speedos when we were in Sicily. So there's both, there's a picture of us in Speedos.

Sure. Yeah, my younger son. And so he's very proud of that. And so, you know, you know, that's, that's what it is. Yeah, Channing Tatum saw it and he like flipped out. He goes, like, magic Mike. He goes, you know, I was like, listen, I was, I was stripping way before you, man. You know, no, that's a whole other thing.

I mean, like, you know, my mom used to, you know, do like a kind of faux stripping. for my dad, you know, when he was depressed. She would do it. And I actually have family films. I mean, she would have leotards on, you know what I mean? But she would have, like, you know, like leopard panties and bra over the leotards. And we would be dancing with her three boys,

you know, trying to entertain my father because he'd be like in a depression or something, you know what I mean? And I have this on 8mm film. I saw it, I was like, I've never seen anything like this in my life. You know, my mother would do all kinds of things to make my father smile. She did, and matter of fact, in romance and cigarettes, I use a thing where, well, my father, he had cancer and stuff like that. I was over the house visiting, and he wasn't doing that well. And my mother, like, ran into the living room with a big kitchen knife, like, ah, screaming.

And my father threw his hands up. Oh, my God. You know? And I was like, and then he just smiled, and she walked out. And I was like, what? What was that? And so my father said, oh, I ask your mother to do that every once in a while, just so he goes, just so I know I'm alive. And I realize this is one of the greatest, like, love scenes I have a scene in my life.

And I put it in the movie. It's still not as good as all my mother. father did it, but I was like, oh my God, like she's doing this just so we can have like a jolt. And so when you see stuff like that, that's someone doing it for someone else. And I learned a lot about acting between my parents because they, they went moment to moment. Nothing passed with them. Like my father would, my mother would give my father a look. He said, well, what's that look?

He would say, I know what you're thinking. She would say, yeah, you know what I'm, you know, and I know what's on your mind, you know. They would go back and forth, and when I first brought my wife, which we were just, my girlfriend, Kathy, over, she just, she couldn't take it. She's like, she started crying at the table. My mother said, well, you know, you'll get used to it or you'll leave. She said, that's it. You know what I mean? That's just the way it is.

But it was like they were, that was like better than any acting class. And when I went to acting class, I was like, ah, I see my mother father do this all the time. You know what I mean? And, you know, they would watch movies together, and my father would be laughing, my mother would be crying. And I usually was with my mother. Like, I would be getting emotional.

He was like, why is he crying? You know, this is a good movie, you know what I mean? You know, you know. Oh my God, I love it. I mean, Betty Davis was a big, you know, my mother loved Betty Davis. And Jenna Rollins. Sure.

My mother loved Jenna Rollins. My mother, you know, when Gloria, when she says, when she's on a train with the gun and she says, you, you let a woman beat you. And my mother just, she just loved Jenna Rollins so much. And once we went to see opening night at the New York Film Festival, and was my brother and my wife, and there's funny things. But in Kazavetti's films, they're not queued.

You don't know what to laugh at it. So it's about your sensibility or my sensibility or someone else's. And we were laughing because there's a play within a play. And we thought it was hilarious. And this woman was like, you know, it was like the centerpiece or something. She had a big fur coat on and, you know, she had some work done. She kept turning to my mother. We were laughing and laughing, like as if we shouldn't be laughing.

So my mother goes to me like, why does she keep turning around? I said, she doesn't get it, Ma. So then she turns around. And my mother goes, you turn around one more time. She goes, and I'm going to punch you right in a face like that. And I was like, it was like right. out of the movie. You know what I mean? And I was like, I was mortified, but I was like, you know what? I said, you know, she says, we get it because you don't. You know what I mean? Watch the movie.

You know what I mean? And I told that to Jenna Rollins once because I had lunch with it. And she just said, that was a typical reaction to some of our films because people didn't know. And she just said, I would wish I got to meet your mother. I said, my mother just loves you so much. I mean, if we've learned nothing else tonight, it's bring your parents to movies. I mean, your dad back in the day, Oh, my God. Your film, the freaking film? Your mom at Casavetes? Yeah, I mean, they just, they were in it.

They were in the movie. They didn't like, it wasn't like, like, this passionate. No, no, no, no. Like, you know, it's, my father would, I mean, put it in one Mac, I put in, he'd be dead asleep because he got up at 4 o'clock in the morning, and there'd be a movie on. And then in a climactic moment, he'd wake up and be interact with the movie. movie, right? And then go back to sleep. And I mean, I saw it many times, especially was Burton Lancaster. You know what I mean? And he would be, ah, you can't, you can't

fuck with Bert, you know what I mean? It was like, yeah, and then he'd go back to sleep. You know what I mean? And I was just like, this is, you know, all my, my friends, my friends growing up, they would like to hang out with my father. I can imagine why. Because he was just like completely like unconscious. And I think that's a, no filter. Well, you know, people have asked me. They said, well, what, you don't seem to be inhibited. I said, no, I'm not inhibited. No, because I feel like I don't really care.

Like, you know, my parents, you know, I saw my parents do that. And it's like, and if you have enough affirmation in your life, you're willing to try. That may not work or whatever, but, you know, you have to get past embarrassment sometimes. And sometimes it's quite embarrassing. Okay, I know we're over time, but it'll just me in the last couple of things. Last actor you were mistaken for. Does it ever happen? Nicholas Cage many times. There's someone else they get sometimes.

A lot of times people say they look just like me, and they don't look like me. Only one, John Turturo. And they say, guys tell I look just like you. And I'm like, no, you don't. What's the worst note a director has ever given you? tense up, you know, do it like you did it in another movie. Then I feel like telling them, you know what? You know, when did you get another job? You know what I mean?

It's just like, you can't ask me to do something I did before. That's like cheating on somebody. You know what I mean? It's like, no, come up with your own idea. Yeah, you know what I mean? So, yeah. Or someone, like a director telling me, you have to trust me on the first day. It's like, I told this one director, I said, I don't know you.

Yeah. I don't know you. how can I trust you? I said, I'm also half-Cicillian, so I don't trust. I don't trust easily, okay? And I don't forget easily, easily. And in the spirit of happy, said I'm confused.

An actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're happier immediately. Oh, well, there's so many of them. One that comes to mind. Yeah, one that makes me happy all the time? Well, I said Jenna Rollins makes me happy. you know, Barbara Stanwick, you don't mean, Bert Lancaster, you know.

Edward G. Robinson. Okay. Love Edward G. Robinson. James Cagney. A movie that always makes you sad, breaks you down. Oh, man. There's a lot of those, you know.

I mean, I love on the waterfront. I mean, you know, I love that. I don't know, there's so many, Charles Lawton and in a lot of different things. I think Edward G. Robinson is really, really, really, really powerful, powerful actor. You know, there's so many, so many, it's hard for me to pick, you know. I love Robert Mitchum, you know. And finally, a food that makes you confuse, John.

You don't, a food that makes you confused. You see it on a menu. Why do people eat that? I don't understand. Well, I don't like coffees that have all different kinds of things in them. Oh, just keep it pure. I don't, I don't, I don't accept that. Like you're not a frappish?

No, I, no, no. No, no, that does not work. No, that's like, that's a malted. You know what I mean? It's like, you want a malted, though. Malted is good, but it's a malted. It is a multed. It is a multer.

Okay, you can't say, you know, it's a, you know, a cinnamon, Raisin, this, that, whatever. You know, I hear them describe it. I'm like, this is disgusting. I mean, because a great espresso, a great, like if you get it in Naples in Italy, it means, it has the crema. It's, you know, and maybe they rim it with sugar, you know,

and it's like bitter chocolate, you know, if you want it with sugar or not. But that's an art form, you know, and it takes the coffee and it talks a certain kind of water, too. I like it, potente. We like your acting potente too. You do it well, sir. Congratulations on the new season of Severance.

I'm sure you guys have checked it out, but check it out again. Spread the Good Word on Apple TV Plus. Thank you. Thank you so much for going down there. Oh, this is always a great place. Love to do it. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thanks, everybody. And so ends another additional coffee, Sal. used. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok,

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