Happy Sad Confused - JOHN WICK CHAPTER 4 with Chad Stahelski I Watchalong

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

Are you ready to for a deep dive into THE action behemoth that is JOHN WICK: CHAPTER 4? You're in the right place because director Chad Stahelski is watching it all with Josh and you, dissecting all the scenes and influences on the film! If you want to watch the ENTIRE Watchalong, it's available exclusively on our patreon! ⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/happysadconfused⁠ SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Visit BetterHelp.com/HSC today to get 10% off your first month HelloFresh -- Go to HelloFresh.com/hscfree and use code hscfree for FREE breakfast for life DraftKings -- Download the DraftKings Casino app NOW and sign up with promo code HappySad UPCOMING EVENTS January 8th -- Dan Levy -- tickets here! January 10th -- Josh Hutcherson -- tickets here! January 11th -- Annette Bening -- tickets here! January 17th -- Clive Owen -- tickets here! January 24th -- Masters of the Air (Austin Butler) -- tickets here! February 6th -- Emily Blunt -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever ever think of, like, the alternate life that you'd be living had John Wick not happened and you went back to second unit? I would think I'd either be a fairly mediocre action director or super criminal. And this is the biggest fuck you shot in the movie. This is just fuck everybody else out there. I shot in a Louvre.

You didn't. Kenner I've been trying to kill off John Wick since the second one. We just figured there's no way out for this guy. And you know, like, it hit me from behind the monitor. Like, oh, cool. That's the end of 10 years of my life. Hey guys, it's Josh Harrow. It's here with a quick note before we dive into this episode of Happy, Say, Confused. You are about to hear a special watch-along episode of Happy, Say, Confused. What does that mean? Well, you're going to hear the highlights of a full-on watch-along of me alongside director, Chad Stahelsky, watching John Wick, Chapter 4. So you're going to hear a ton of great stuff in this, 45 minutes to an hour of the best bits of us watching this great action movie. But if you want the entire thing, Yeah, I'm talking the entire thing, nearly three hours worth of me and Chad, watching John Wick Chapter 4.

Go to patreon.com slash happy, say, confused. It's available exclusively there for you hardcore John Wick fans. That's what to do. But in the meantime, if you just want the best bits, enjoy this episode with me and Chad's DeHelsky. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and this is a happy, sad, confused watch-along. What are we watching?

It's the film that proved to me, spoiler alert. Keanu Reeves may be immortal, but John Wick is not. It's the movie that reminded me I never want to climb another flight of stairs. We're watching John Wick, Chapter 4, with the one and only, Mr. Chad Stahelsky. Thank you. You ready to do this, Chad? I am. Thanks for having us.

Is this going to be pleasurable or painful to watch us again? No, I, you know, I could watch Keanu all day. So I think Keanu does a great job. And I don't know, it's always fun to see your mistakes. We're going to feel the angst. We're going to talk about the mistakes, but more importantly, we're going to talk about the triumphs of this great movie. How important is a first shot in a film starting with that?

Well, we wanted to start it like something that woke everybody up and reintroduce him to the John Wick world because it's been like three years. And I'm a pretty big. martial art practitioner and I'm big into martial arts so like we thought that the really traditional macawari hitting the the the board was a cool to do as Lawrence Fishburn starts quoting Dante and going into Dante's inferno here and we wanted to build this hobo world so you see all these symbols throughout the movie on the side of the Bowery king and it's actually an old hobo symbol from the early 1900s that meant safe house or safe haven and this is my had pretty big balls to

off the shot from Lawrence of Arabia. I've got to say, come on chat. And that is an actual sunrise in the Jordanian desert outside of Akaba in the Wadi Rum. So that's not digital. I'm very proud of that. That we actually, the King of Jordan lent us a helicopter to go out in the middle of the desert

to get this sunrise shot. How much does Keanu in a scene like this regret the wardrobe of John Wick of wearing a whole black suit? Funny enough, it gets really hot there, but it gets really, really cold. So when you show up, it's below zero. So then it kind of warms back up. And, you know, we were there in the wintertime.

So it only got up to about 85. Oh, that's it. Yeah. Those are two of the 380 words that Keanu says in this movie. That's funny. People, when I was doing the press tour, I would get hit with that. Like, you know, he only speaks to what he was? I was like, really that many?

But, like, there's something. I mean, we decidedly wanted to do, like, the man with no name. Right. Thing from all the Leone and the Eastwood stuff. and Keanu's such a big screen actor a little eyebrow raised means quite a bit and I think he has at least two dozen different ways to say woe I was going to say there's no actor that can do more with a woe or a yeah

than Keanu I think we own the yas Bill and Ted may have the woes right this quote correct and coming wrong how you do anything is how you do everything ripped off from your friends the Wichowski's it's part Wichowski and it's part my dad is that right my dad kind of that was drilled into us like you got to do everything right buddy if you can't tie your shoes you're going to have a

rough day if you don't make your bed the day's not going to go he's not going to go up from there so do everything good and my dad kind of modified that by do everything right and then you know lily and um lana mouchowski when i was working with them like they they literally live by that that is a mantra we heard every day on the matrix trilogies of like everything everything counts there is no detail too small in fact that's the genius and that's the beauty of filmmaking is the we should mention because he's he's not in the film much more but the great lance rhetoric who we lost uh right now and it's it's we were for people that know no we had finished the film we were we were on the press tour we were a i think it Lance passed

unfortunately on a Friday morning and we opened well the the LA premieres on that Monday we were in Toronto and we got the phone call when we landed about how from Derek Colstead who had written and created the whole franchise and you know it was a weird situation because and Lance and I had many times we had just seen each other in LA but we had we had written the script that the character does does die in in the scene coming up here and that's a that's a very strange topic when you have to go watch the movie the night that that happened but Joe Drake the head of lines get gave her a really nice I guess tribute talked to him and then Keanu and I both gave a little talk to the Toronto

festival and then when we were in LA the press and everybody was really supportive so that was good I you know I you know you just hope that you you know because you were the last one you hope that he did you did the man proud and you know all hail Donnie Donnie and that was I mean come on like the when we started talking about it we're like what are the chances of actually getting Donnie we're like well he he's really busy guy like donnie is a workaholic in hong kong and china like he's he's directing he's writing he's acting and then when we went in negotiations we had a window because we kept getting pushed and pushed with covid and it ended up working and when you realize you're going to be

directing donnie yin you get to choreograph for time it's pretty cool man yeah i mean what is he he knows this stuff like the back of his hand he must bring so much at the table donnie was not what I was expecting you know you expect the professional donnie is a filmophile like you wouldn't believe like knows every American movie Korean movie like he loves movie loves for Donnie

one of the most I think he's one of the most generous host of it like you go to dinner with Donnie he is taking you out for an amazing dinner he knows everything about the food he knows he loves dinner and movies man you put the two together it is going to be a great evening is there a location that's eluded you

You, I mean, you cover a bunch of the iconic spots in this one, obviously. I think I really wanted the Pantheon. I really wanted, like, Napoleon's tomb and all that. And they, yeah. And I really wanted Notre Dame. I really wanted it. St. Asthmaise turned out to be fantastic, great Gothic church. But it was originally written to be Notre Dame, but it was still under construction.

And I said that was cool, but they didn't. I weren't biting. We're okay with it. Well, yeah, I said, I'm absolutely fine. But, and we're like the, the, the, uh, people in charge of synestash did have been tasked. Like, they let us do, we brought in, you know, over a thousand candles and let the scene

that went. They were pretty cool with it. So this father-daughter pairing, where did, uh, where did that come from? Well, here, Yuki Sonata, I've known forever and I've always wanted to work with. He was actually originally going to be zero in John Wick 3, but he blew out his Achilles tenant so he couldn't do the part. That's how we got Mark DeCoscus. Rina Samayama, I was looking for the part of Akira.

and I couldn't quite find somebody that fit what I was thinking in my mind through casting so one night I was in Berlin I looked at some random music videos looking for dancers or something like that and I saw a bunch of Rina's videos and I had not heard a single song of hers and for the next three days I went down the rabbit hole

finally by Thursday I decided like I don't know why but I just this is the anime girl in my head called her up she happened to be in London and I said hi I'm the director of Johnwick she's like oh I like those movies I'm like good would you like to be in one and she kind of went oh

I don't know I don't I don't I don't act I'm like sure you do um so I convinced her to fly to Berlin she met Keanu and I and the stunt team and within an hour everybody came back to me and said no we got to hire this people and she was cool enough to say yes and her and Hirouki funny enough she's from her family's from Osaka and Hirouki knows quite a bit about the Osaka accent and all this stuff and they really bonded just in in life and they make it great I mean, I always wanted to father-daughter team. Like, this pairing had been in my head for years. Really?

And I really wanted to bring it to fruition. I mean, talk about, like, the silhouette of Keanu. Just like, you don't, we were talking before about not needing dialogue. Like, there's no more iconic silhouette of an actor, I think. Yeah, I just, with the messy hair and the neon no one on the back on, all the neon, like, that, that shot and the shot of a cure looking over a shoulder. Where I'm a huge manga and anime guy, I, like, there's probably not a day goes by that. I don't look at one or the other. And something about the cherry blossoms and the neon that I wanted to bet.

Like, that shot was in my head. And when I actually shone it, we're like, let's do another take. Let's do it. I was like, what are you doing? I was like, I don't want to move on. This is so cool. I just knew where it was going in the movie. And then he did this.

I think it was the third take that's in the movie. As soon as he did it, we just knew that just the way, exactly, the way he turned his head and cocked it. And with the eyebrow, we're like, yeah, no, you're in. We're good. We got it. So you're challenging people to do their best. and then they come up with these great ideas like how do we get more lights in how do we move the light how do we get the reflection in the glasses instead of a problem we try to paint ourselves in the corner because you know if you solve the problem that no one else solved you're going to get something cool like i have no fucking idea how i'm going to do a car chase around a roundabout with 50 cars dog guys i have no idea but if we figure it out it'll be cool right and that's that's the paint yourself into a corner mentality of like or the the the marcus aurelius the obstacles the way right embrace the problem and if you get it's a the answer, you're going to have a great answer.

I love that Kane, of course, now, like, he's ready for battle. He's in the suit. It's almost like the flip of John Wick against. I'm going to do it one more time because I always, I had a very different vision of Kane, and it was a little bit more traditional Chinese in its appearance, you know, as an older, more seafood-esque guy. Donnie, and I promised him I'd give him the credit on every time he did press. So here it is, Donnie for you.

Like, Donnie goes, I don't want to do that. I want to look cool. And I'm like, what do he means? He's like, I want to be the coolest looking guy. Like, Canada's got the great suit. He's got, I want to be cooler. I'm like, I want to be like Chal Young Fat in the Cal, I'm like, fuck, that's an awesome idea.

And I'm like, like, Bruce Lee with the skinny tighties. Like, yeah, I want to be Bruce Lee and Chal Young Fat. I want to be cool. I want to be the coolest. Like, I'm, like, you went down the thing. Because they're the flip side. They're like, and I was like, and I was ashamed. I was sitting on the Zoom call with him going,

fuck, that's a great idea. I didn't think like, so Donnie, that was your idea. I didn't credit. It's awesome. I like to take, I'll take credit for your credit. Right. Like, it was a great idea. And like, Donnie is so fucking, like, literally he's, I love the John Wu films of Chai Untaat.

And I think, you know, Donnie nailed it. He's just fucking cool. You referenced, I think, in our last conversation, like, yeah, that kind of Jackie Chan philosophy applying to that. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I really believe in that. I can't tell you. But believe me, it's terrifying. You don't think there's a couple times when things aren't really working out for you on.

Like, what if there isn't a solution? Yeah, like, believe me, and it's happened. Like, you're seeing the finished movie. What you're not seeing is a thousand feet of film on the floor of stuff that didn't quite work out. Like, Chad's genius wasn't there that day, you know? So, yeah, like, we have a lot of fails, you know, but at least, you know, I guess you get knocked down. You got to stand back up, right? Ever try to get Jackie in one of these?

Yes, I mean, to be very, very honest, Jackie was the original choice I had. for for cane but it was again it was a very very different and it just wasn't going to work oh you were saying it was a bit of an older yeah it was an older thing in between Jackie sketch this was very early on and we COVID had hit and it just

I didn't have the script quite dialed in and as the script evolved it just I kept forcing a kind of character that wasn't going to work in the movie so once you let go things and then we kind of walked away from it from a while and then when it was a re-envision thing

it was like okay because originally Kane wasn't that active he was more like the tracker the tracker it was a whole different kind of trilogy

and then when we had come back and we knew what we wanted the trackers part had grown quite a bit and Kane was now a very action influence person and it was more John's brother

than a father figure it had totally kind of morphed well let me just get props to what we just watched which was Akira on top of a guy climbing the stairs

the ice pick climb there oh my God I do enjoy a little bit of reality about how a small little woman can take down a monster of a man and I think she did a pretty good job of selling that. I mean, you just don't, like, you know, you start with these choreography ideas and you try to build it. A lot of it happens on set, a lot of it happens in the gym, you try to prepare as much as you can, but ideally I think the best fight scenes or the best action scenes have a little bit of that organic nature on set. I mean, a lot of stunts you can't really mess with because there's timing, there's safety,

car stuff we try to be very precise with but choreography we try to you know if something's not working we'll change it hero yuki you literally learned that little piece where he killed three guys here like in five minutes wow because we changed locations we're run out of time we had to do that whereas the first part of this fight here is fairly well choreographed what he had originally rehearsed and then keanu had been practiced so much with numbchucks coming up here i was gonna say he actually got better when i i hadn't seen him in a call and he actually got so good that we're like like oh we got to record you have this I think this guy gets up like seven times or something I want his story you know one of our Japanese stunt members

they're Nahiro and I think we just stay down man it's okay we just made him the pivot man and we're just like oh fuck it let's just go with this we'll see if anybody catches sometimes we do things just to see if we can do them I'm sure it's that Bill Burr quote it's like sometimes you get to that age we just yeah fuck it let's Let's see if it'll work, right? I would imagine some of your guys have been killed throughout all four films by now. Oh, yeah. We have a couple of the four-timers one.

And we kind of went and got a little tid that he had these shirts, the 20 and overs, the 15 and overs, the 10 and overs. So if you died at least 10 times, you had a special t-shirt, you died 15 times. You had another one. Not to pick favorites, but he has to be like the actor that has just the most dedication acumen in this. You know, he's, there's. There's some really good people out there that we've worked with. Kiano is, I mean, I've worked with him the most. And in my mind, mentally, he's superhuman.

It's not that he doesn't feel the pain or the discomfort. He just somehow deals with it. And when you yell action, he goes to a different space. And he's living for the project. But, you know, we've been very fortunate to work some very, very, very excellent actors who have that kind of commitment. Well, he clearly just, like, enjoys the lifestyle that go, like the commitment that goes into the months and months on prep.

You know, what they say is, like, it's not so much of what you want. It's how much you're willing to suffer to get what you want. You know, the question is if, you know, the real thing with suffering for your art or your life or what you're willing to go through to process, it's like he loves the process. Like, if you like standing, you know, if your dreams are mountainous, you better love to climb. And like, that's the quote I would say it defines Keanu. He's like, he loves the process. Like, this guy is on set.

He's not back in his trailer. He's on set right behind camera practicing for the next setup. He loves the process. He loves being on set. He loves picking lenses. He loves finding, designing the sets. He loves working and doing reads with other cast members. And I think that's why he's so successful as he likes the process.

It's not just being on set going back to Charlie getting the paycheck and getting the kudos. Like he likes building the house. Rule of thumbs. Yeah, run from Donnie. Yeah, exactly. All that. And I was going to say, if you see some glass in a scene, a mirror or glass in a scene in John lick. It's not going to survive. That's another fetish apparently. Museums reflect. I have a reflection

fetish, I guess. But I love, I get fun for your DP and your editor, I'm sure. Oh, yeah, no, drives everybody else boat. You know, I want kooky, you know, nanotech, light exhibition, samurai museum period peace, samurai armor, gunfight, something. What are you going to do in Highlander? There was no neon or light or, uh, we'll put it in. It'll be in there. Don't you worry. I can't help myself. Hopefully, because I'm so slow in prep, like, I don't want to put out a movie every three years, then, like, maybe no one will notice. You know, like, well, this guy did the John Wakes.

Why is there a disco in Highland? What's going on? Yeah, man, like, they really, there is, too, though. Just a little spoiler there. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the eight. L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about

good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Hey, Michael. Big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth-shaking.

Heartbeat sound effect, big. Maitz is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks? We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks.

Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. Call us. At this point, is there like a John Wick Bible that has grown just so you remember your own rules, or is it so ingrained? I think it's pretty ingrained, but we're always open to new rules.

I like mythology. I like etiquette. I watch this interview with John Ford about what he loved about the westerns and how he made him a very American part of cinema. He's like, it's about ceremony. You know, he was very big into. ceremony about whether it was the Pledge of Allegiance or the ceremony of a duel, the ceremony of getting the badge of a shit. And if you look at the samurai films, it's all about ceremony. Pop and circumstance, really, right? And etiquette.

This film more than any of the others you found this about that. Yeah, and that's what I really laid into. Like Derek Colst and I on the first one had a lot of talks with. Very similar grandfathers that were very big into etiquette about what spoon you ate with. And it wasn't about class or wealth. It was about, you know,

my grandfather would change like he changed into a casual jacket when he had guessed over because he didn't want to make you feel underdressed or overdressed. He always felt like you were doing everything just right. And my grandmother could talk your ear off or be the best listener you've ever seen. Same with my mom. Like she can make you feel like you're the most interesting person in the world or a complete idiot with just one look.

And I think they learned that for my grandfather. Derek's grandfather was very much like that as well. Everything had a reason. Every toast had a reason. And that's what I think he got the original idea of John. I mean you spent the last decade kind of creating this your own mythology and clearly you love things like Lord of the Rings. I don't know if you're like a Star Wars guy, etc. The first Star Wars the first two, three times. So are you you must have also not to go on too far off a tangent but like

been offered so many different opportunities and different someone else's sandbox. Has that been tough for you to say because this far you've directed four John Wick films. You've developed a lot Highlander hopefully will be next. Has it been hard to say no to things. things that properties that you actually love? Oh, it's always like, look, I'm not going to lie to you, even at the age I met now and haven't been in the business a while and, you know, you try to feel secure as a human being in who you are. I'm not going to tell you, it's not an ego rush even at, you know, my age now when someone,

one of the bigger franchises come and you goes, hey, would you like to play? And of course, it's like, oh, somebody acknowledged me, somebody likes me, woo. But to be honest, you know, I've been asked a lot about why do you, do John Waste, don't you want to try something else? Yes, of course I do. do. But given the choices I've had and the parameters that were presented to me, as far as those opportunities went, I felt I could do more and bring something more and do more of what I wanted genre-esque and, you know, do the fights and the anime and the action more

my way by doing this. Why work within somebody else's parameters of what I feel to be a duel or the mythology, what I can create? And it's also like, look, it is a big ego dump when you're like, all right, do I think I can take them? Like, I do have, you know, I still have a little bit of a competitor mindset left in me going, no, that's cool and I'm very flattered and you feel very honored. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't know, man, I want to take a swing. Yeah. I just want to, you, it's like, Rocky, I got to know, was it your best? Like, I want to know, like, I can't hide, like, no matter what you think of John Wick Ford, everybody out there, like, big swing. You always hear about directors. Well, the

studio that this I I have to sell the studio literally was my best they gave me everything I want they backed every decision you know money is always an issue but I can't complain about what I had to make John Wick for like you know I other than a few little choice here I'd say 96% 97% of this movie is me right so there's no shortcuts there's no oh I didn't like maybe okay we got hit with timeline with some of the effects here and some of that there but these are my choices these are my things And I don't know if too many other directors out there can say this is 97% in my movie. Like, there were no other cooks in the kitchen. This is, even with Keanu helping and the other writers, like, it was still comes down to my decisions.

And they back me. And there's a lot of, a lot of other people in here. But it's because I believe in their vision as well. So I don't, you know, I'll take credit for everybody's. But like, but there's nowhere to hide. Like, this is, this is, you know, it's like Aaron your soul. This is me. This is what I love.

these are my choices. I'll stand by them. And you found a way to pour a lot of different loves into this vessel. Exactly. And I don't think I would have gotten that opportunity with anybody else. It's like, do I think I would love? Yeah, I can picture being on a Batman saying, oh, I'm making Batman and put your steel on it.

But I didn't come up with Batman. Right. I didn't come up the rules of DC. I didn't come up with how the Flash moves. I didn't come up with what are Wolverines healing things. So, you know, and I'm saying like, you know, there is, like if I could take a swing. He says no to Wolverine.

That's what just happened. No, I mean, if I could ever have worked with Hugh Jack, but I would have been over the moon. You know, that caveat being saying, yeah, you know, like, you know, and I'm, I'm very happy to do, like, there's a reason I'm attached to the stuff I am, to create a world with Michael B. Jordan on Rainbow Six, to create the world of Highlander, to create the world of Ghost of Sashima, where they are other people's probably somebody else.

It's come from an IP, but I think I have the take or the vision that would be. make me really happy. You know, that being said, I, you know, of all the things out there, I take a swing at Blade in a second. I was going to say that. That was actually one of the ones I wrote out. That's one that gets under my skin, like, eh, I take a swing at that one. Did you get in the room? Did you have a meeting? I, I, look, I've worked for Marvel a bunch and they've been very, very good to me. They've been very interesting like Kevin Feig. He's been very, he's almost been a bit of a mentor in a, in a capacity of advice that, you know, he was, he was very happy to give me about how to, how to open up a franchise with John Wick. We've talked about it,

But, like, look, they've got a very, I think they've got a good form. They have a system. Yeah, they have their thing and going. And I think they've got the right people involved in Blade now. Or, I mean, I don't, I'm not in the inner circle, but like, we've had talks. It just, you know, for whatever reason, things come together for, and there's a good fit for the other. Yeah. But I think for what they're doing, they've got a great, they've got a great thing going.

But if that thing doesn't work out in five years from now, it doesn't, I'd still be like, yeah. How many Spider-Man reboots have there been in the last 15 years? maybe on the fourth Reborn coming 2029 which that's the hellskey you know maybe I can pull back Wesley and you'll jump back but that's all that's just that's you know everybody's got their thing right like I'm a Star Wars guy like the first Star Wars changed my life of course maybe someday out there Disney if you're listening give him a free reign hit me in a couple years and I have a couple takes for Star Wars do you have your idea or two I do yeah I take a swing at that I challenge you. I'll take a certain. See, see if, see if Disney could survive me. Do it. Kathy Kennedy,

listen up. So we're on a subway. This makes me think of good old Cassian Common. Is he still out there? Yeah, something. I got a subway fit. Yeah, Cassing's still. I see that people think common didn't, I think Cassian's still out there. I think Cassian pulled it out, literally pulled it out and made it. So, you know, we're currently trying to develop a John Wick TV series. And Lionsgate has been very cool about back in us. You know, we just started getting into the nitty-gary of it when the strikes all happens. So wait, not the, you're saying not the Continental. Not the, very little to do with the Continent.

That was something done before we had finished John Wic 4. Can I were consulted a little bit, but that's a completely separate energy from our deal. But we'd like to do the John Wicill. And so hopefully maybe in this TV series we can bring back some of the people we love to your point. So wait, who's your protagonist in the John Wick series? It's going to be fun to watch, isn't it? someone we've met before again going to be great to watch

something to look forward to next year if Hollywood can get their shit together when you get in spare time you should get somebody to translate all the Latin on the steps oh okay no I haven't had any interviewer podcast do it yet oh okay we're going back to the tape so if you can yeah it run back the tape and you can

have that as a spin up all right I throw it out there because it's been a couple months now it's fair game you're like So I'm throwing it to you, Josh. Our exclusive. I don't want to leave anything on the table for this podcast. Have you ever talk seriously? There was kind of like the rumors and joking or not about like Shirley's Theron.

I remember when I talked with Juan when David directed. Yeah, no. Believe me, I think if Charlize would ever grace John Wig's set, Keanu and I would both be pretty stoked. From what I understand, Charlize and Keanu are pretty good friends. And I've managed to work with her a little bit. And I'm a big, huge fan of her work ethic. Oh, my God, the physicality of what she did in Atomic and Nat Max.

And, you know, she just finished old guard too. Like, she's still going, man. She's not scared. Do you ever ever think of, like, the alternate life that you'd be living had John Wick not happened and you went back to second unit? I would think I'd either be a fairly mediocre action director or super criminal. I probably would have got caught at some point. I probably would have made a horrible prisoner,

so the option was probably stay with second unit directing. But were you getting frustrated? Were you kind of like hitting a wall? Not frustrated. Look, I really loved being an action director. It just, again, without sounding, like, you, I've always brought up, I've always been brought up or whatever competitive endeavor I've been in,

you want to know. Like when you first start like any kind of combative or martial art competing, whether it's judo, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, whatever. Like, you go through these stages of training. At first, when you're kind of an amateur or, when I mean amateur, I don't mean in status, but in my mindset, you force yourself to hate the other guy. I'm going to kill this guy. And that's very shallow thinking. And then you get to the point where you respect

the opponent and you realize it's man against man. It's like who's clever and it's a chess game almost. And then you get to the real point. And I was lucky to have coaches that kind of got me there. you realize that other guy he's just a mirror you know it's reflecting like can you hold your shit together can you control your own fear can you rise above win or lose the match did you do better are you a better guy than you were yesterday like if you keep carrying that if you can get to that point that's what it sounds so you get to second unit and like i'm happy doing my thing win or lose doing like learning with all these great directors and getting through it it's just you want to challenge yourself yeah that's kind of where we went

to you and said, hey, you want to crack at a Matrix movie? Would you dare to direct your own? You know what? It would be an incredible compliment. And in the back of my head, you'd run the Matrix in your head. You'd go, okay, what would I do just as a test? But look, man, I've recently watched the first one again. It's near perfect, I would say.

I just don't. You got to remember, that's out of somebody's head. Obviously, they have their influences too. But to put that together in such a great way and have the pace the momentum that movie has like I don't know you know I can only imagine they watch it and just go

they've got to have a little pride and just realize how smart that movie is there is a time there they had a Conan script that was before Arnold became governor of oh it was like King Conan like it was going to be his it was before he got his governorship so he was still in that's when it was still a thing

wow and I read that script it was awesome like the opening fight scene was he's fighting with a bedpan it was an older corner it was awesome I don't think I've ever laughed so much when I read an action sequence and this is the biggest fuck you shot in the movie this is just fuck everybody else out there

I shot in the Louvre you didn't and I'm gonna shoot the whole fucking thing wide keep just keep the shot going as long as possible Ian McShade and footsteps and those are all the real paintings and that is the actual red room in the Louvre and if you look at the pictures

the dialogue is completely made to be shot in front of those once we knew we could do it we went back in there me and mike finch the writer went back in and wrote to the paintings so when you see the tigers behind him and the jesus christ and the crucifixion the raft of medusa and the the cost of tyranny here you kind of you know okay these guys are really on the nose but that's like you've been very wise and like kind of keeping these budgets in line and the movies make money it's kind of like you're you're not overstep you're not these aren't

gratuitous shoots like that are i would like i don't believe me i'm not trying to save anybody money and I'm not trying to spend anybody's money I just have it's almost a chip on my shoulder because I came from a smaller budget world where like you know again it's that challenge thing it's my own I guess ridiculous ego going like you know what I've seen a lot of movies recently that are bragging these two 250 300 million dollar and they don't look that good yeah it's not that good proportionate to that yeah and you're looking at stuff going okay like I in the movie business and I I know budgets better than most directors because of my second unit background and I have to budget my own stuff and I'm like all right I would just I need

to ask where did you spend like where did this money go if it's not above the line to pay people like I don't know where you did it because it yeah like what are you doing like you're watching this every day like why why are there shadows across this state like why aren't there's better like what did you do for the set design like where did you get this war like why is there and why did you not get that shot like so this is The John Wicks are always kind of that me showing my, like this shot. It's like, fuck you, I'm in the loo. That's the raft of Medusa.

You know, like, and I tell you what, I was in five countries and I shot 100 days and I did it for way less than you did that for. So I guess it's, you know, my little yell back at Hollywood going like, you know. Doesn't have to be this way. We can. Giving a shit matters. Yeah. Give a shit.

Yeah. And if you get, like, look, you can argue with my, my producer, my line producer in the studio about what we actually spent. and why we did what we did, you know, like, look, it's always going to be, I spent more than they wanted me to spend, but I spent a hell of a lot less than most other people. And when you can get shots like that, just through perseverance and prep and just knowing what you want, then is there ever really excuse for some of the, and I hate to say it, but there's some lower quality things out there with bigger price tags.

You're probably, I know you're asked a lot about it's kind of like the state of like action and film, et cetera, but it does strike me. Like, I guess we've talked around it in a few different ways, but like, there's so few that do it well. It's like, I don't know. It comes down to, it comes down to a base route, a denominator. You can have a great filmmaker. You can have a great stunt team. You can have a great editor.

You can have a great set piece. You have a great concept. But you're still missing the point. It's the guy or the girl. Like, it's your cast member. So if you don't have, if you didn't spend your time in prep getting, you can spend your time doing everything else. But you have to look at it like a complete formula. Like if you have Jackie Chan and you have his stunt team, you have options that no one else has.

Right. If I have Keanu Reeves and my stunt team in my launch, no. Like, you know what? It's not that I've been in action more than most people. It's just I understand the problems. Like I know what's important. Like people have more money than we do. So how do we do it?

Well, I know the problem. I have to, if I don't have Keanu committing to five months of learning the skills, that doesn't just buy me cool moves from him. It buys me options. It buys me editorial. It buys me, like, times start out to slow and it buys me the time. And people think stunt guys are just stunt guys and choreographers are just choreographers. They are not.

There's very, very, very few choreographers in the industry that I would say are real choreographers. There are people that put moves together, but I don't think there's full-blown martial art choreographers out there. Not many outside of Asian, very few in the States. And if you find the right people and you know which people to search for, you will get good action. The problem is people don't know, one, what you can have and they don't know what exists already. They don't know the problem. So if you don't know that there's an option to turn left, you're going to keep driving straight. Now, you have all the good.

No one sets out to do, hey, guess what, Josh, let's do shitty action today. They all want to do great action. They just don't know how. And unfortunately, some line producer or some producer studio execments, hey man, I know a guy that did this. He did the fight scene over on this, on, you know, this superhero movie. So they bring the guy, and they did no research. And then you got your director. Now, a lot of directors go, well, I'm not going to direct the action anyways.

You're going to get the second you to go to do that. As soon as I hear that, I'm like, so let me get this shit. You wanted to be a director your whole life and you're going to let somebody else direct your movie. Like, look, man, what I do is not rocket science. If you look at the John Witt, like, it's a dolly, it's a steady cam. It's a move. It's a cut on the halfbeat. Okay.

Like, you could dissect this movie and get my style down. in an hour. Okay, so how hard was that? And, like, I had to figure it out with VCR and VCR. You guys got iPhones. What's your excuse? You can make a whole movie. You can re-edit this entire film on your iPhone

and find out exactly when the punch looks good or why I do throws instead of punches and kicks because they don't have to do the reverses or how to do things. Like, it's super easy. You could go get any Jackie Chan movie and reverse engineer it out, man. So my point is, if you want to, if you're a director and you want to shoot a movie with action in it, go learn how to shoot out it's not that hard go get your iPhone get a couple friends in the gym

and just put the camera that looks like shit that looks like shit that oh that looks good oh let's try this let's try this and then go well i want to look like crouching tiger okay so what's why i don't know type in tai chi master young w ping okay where's it like we have youtube now dude there's nothing you can type in on youtube that you can't find behind the scenes crouching tiger behind the scenes john wick watch it happen and within two phone calls to any agency you can find to anybody like just call me up and go hey man I'm doing this movie how do I do it same way I did and you come down we show you it's not that hard it's about effort figure out what what you want to do figure out how to do it and like look

crack the code action is no different than blocking goodbye summer movies hello fall I'm Anthony Devaney and I'm his twin brother James we host a of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis' return from retirement. There will be

plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional plus Mortal Kombat 2 and Edgar writes The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. It's ticklish business anyway you look at it. Come on, we'll stick together.

Love movies? Love classic movies? So do we. Tick Bush Business is the podcast where classic film is discussed in modern times. Hosted by me, film curing is Kristen Lopez and my co-host, author Emily Edwards. We dive into the golden age of cinema with fun, heart, and serious expertise.

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even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News, and every morning my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning, Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. Speaking of Block, we should talk about this scene because... It's my favorite scene in the movie. I mean, this is kind of like your...

I've heard you mentioned heat. This is kind of like your heat. I wish it was that. Well, let me be modest and go, look, I just think it's emotional. It's my two favorite guys, you know, in the franchise. guys, the two brothers that are trying to come to terms of what it is. And Keanu's so cool. Like, we always have these existential talks about, you know, what's next, the life after

or whatever like that. And Keanu's probably got the most, and this is really his opinions. Like, you know what? No matter what the arguments are for afterlife religion, the truth is we don't know, but it doesn't mean you can't cover your bases, you know? So, like, you just have to accept you might be wrong. And that always chokes me up on my hand, because I know what's coming from his heart. And I know he's lost people.

Yeah. And again, when you have Keanu Reeves, you have a built-in empathy. Yeah. I still remember the first time we shot when his wife, Helen, died in the first movie. It was, Keanu would come up to Dave and I was like, look, I'm going to go to a place. Don't cut. It's going to get a little weird, but don't cut. And again, not to bring up personal stuff with him, but he had gone through a loss years before and he kind of brought it up.

and you see inside somebody. And ever since, I've respected him hugely about, you know, how he deals with bringing things into the profession and from his personal life. And you're just like that. And you can tell, like, whenever he's doing this Helen thing, it's from a personal place. I don't know. I have an important question.

I've been meaning to ask. Where are the police in the John Wick universe? Oh, no, they're not here. The funny thing is, yeah, let me. Has a cop ever shown up? I guess at his house, like in early on. Like, look, man, we had no money on the first John Wick. We got this guy Steve Wills, right?

He was, you know, currently L.A. SWAT. And he came in to help train Kiana with tactical firearms. And what we now see is the John Wick style. So Steve, we're sitting around the 8711 gym. And this is way back in 2013. And Steve's telling us like, you know, what's bullshit about action movies? And we're like, what's that, Steve? He's like, you know, cops.

He always looks like cops miss. swats, a bunch of idiots, and we had gone shooting with them, and they are not. Like, they're amazing, like, they're amazing at what they do. Like, you do not want to be a bad guy up against these guys. So we're like, I tell you what, see, if this movie's ever any success, I promise you right now in my career of John Wick, in the John Wick friend, we will never kill a cop. We will never make the cops look stupid just for your, what you've done for us. Thank you so much, because we couldn't really pay him. And he really put his heart and soul into the first John Wick. so we figure it's a one-time deal we're never going to work again and John Wick goes big so now I'm in this conundable I've made a promise to a good friend's so I'm like okay I'm not going to fall for that trope so we just instead just don't even bother don't even we have Jimmy the cop right he's just doing his cameos and and that's it so we're going to get to the what you call it the top shot yeah and was that first conceived for this film had you ever toyed with doing something like that before we always told but I wanted to like I wanted to like I

I like top shots, like the etchisket shot we used to comb. But I wanted to come up with a way to make it visually interesting. So remember, if you look him down, you see the, you know, you see shitty carpet or something. So we came up with this idea to change the floor and to have long muzzle flashes and to see the debris and to separate him from the guy so the audience could see something he didn't with the walls. So once you suspend disbelief and go, okay, I don't mind this breaking the fourth wall perspective, that's really what you had to get around, right? Are you okay with an unbelievable set piece?

you know and going into the full video game mode here then yes it becomes very interesting I think so all truly one shot or are there are there stitches there's two stitches in here if you'd like I'll calm out if you want me to tell you how to do the magic tree but no we like look I'm not a big oneer guy I don't really especially now with digital stitching I just want it to be cool like if it feels like I'm bored I'll cut and that's when we we had much more of this this could this went on for another 45 seconds but we cut we cut out a back half of it like to me with the other mirrors on the ground and seeing him in the reflections and all the stuff and now with the kitchen with the

escalation of a fireburn coming up here like what the you know the stunt guys are doing like you know well this guy the flaming marshmallow as we call him he comes back on the other side you're like this like there's always something new in each room and that felt it's fun to me so we kept it going and we used this one wall right here to stitch so when he came over that We stitch a little piece to allow for the fire guy to come back in. Got it. Because it was hard to keep the guy on fire that long. Sure.

So that's where we cut ourselves a break. And that guy a break. And this is where we felt like, okay, because we had done a four-hour hallway piece, but it felt, okay, I'm getting a little repetitive now. The editors kept screaming at me going. We're bored, we're bored, we're bored. So we cut to Shamir coming in, which gave me a way back out. And I was like, okay.

Achievement unlocked. Yeah, check my ego. I'll do it. And, you know. When one person, two people, when a hundred people tell you you might want to cut out. But we did try to do it as one. When we're shooting this, there's a guy on a megaphone or stunt quarrying on, one, two, so he's counting. And on the count, everybody knows where to be on a certain number.

So even though the stunt guys can't see Keanu, they know exactly what it be for camera. And this was a, you know, this was a two-week rehearsal just to get. We shot this whole thing, everything in this in two and a half days. Oh, wow, just because of all the prep. because of all the prep we have done with the counts like the metronome counting system and where to put the camera so yeah i mean that's the common denominator in everything you're talking about all these sequences it's the five months of prep that it's fully admitting we don't know how to do it let's but we got to get we got to roll up our sleeves and get into it it's you can only talk about it for so long you can only draw the the sketch of it so long you got to get in the gym you got to set up the rehearsal hall and you got to figure it out and you're not going to like that the first couple days to rehearse something you know you know this is epic this this uh what you do with no like when what's coming up i mean this is can't like we've always had a joke like keano hates going upstairs like you know he's got knee injuries like me and just so when we saw this i pitched it to him he's just like really he finally found something

he's like he's not really 220 i'm like no there's more there's like 240 the part we're going up is 220 we can only get 220 in the shot yeah but when we and dan lawston looked at this we're like yeah we think there's a cool visual here i mean can And me and the stunt team were like, can we sustain this? It's not your first. It was the sequence of common in two, right? Yeah, we had the stairs in Rome, which we thought was funny. And we thought that was just right enough.

We'll never find another place like that. We found this place. We're like, okay. You must, yeah, at this point, talk about, like, be part of the culture, John Wick, tattoos, fan art, all of it. We stay in our little bubble, right? So we're just in our little office or our gym and we do a thing. And then somewhere, you know, to me it seems like,

overnight all of a sudden John Wick was kind of a thing and like it's always weird like I was coming home last week from a scout over in Europe and you come out of the bathroom and you know you're on that overnight flight from London and you come out and look all of all of the cabin is watching John Wick four and I looked to my line producer and she's laughing I'm like this is weird because you still don't you know you don't know how far your your movie reaches and And you see, like, everybody's watching, and you have this little smile and you kind of sit down and go, is this, does that just happen? So we're coming towards the end for our friend, Mr. John Wick. So we should sort of talk about the decision.

This was from the get-go what you wanted to do, yet you did leave yourself open because the studio was a little worried, as I understand it. You know what? I don't even want to hide behind that. It's like, Keanu I've been trying to kill off John Wick since the second one. we just figured there's no way out for this guy. Like, if we really stay hard-boiled and we really stay with our fate and consequence, all our mantra here, like, you can't, there's no happy ending. It's just, you wake up in the box and like, okay, as far as choice goes, you can't,

that's it. You're stuck in this dilemma, but you can choose your way out. Like, that's it. But you're not getting out. So just get your head around it. You know, so we've been trying to figure it out. It's just we finished number two and we didn't feel like we told all the stories. We finished number three.

We're like, okay, that's the one. We're done on number three. We're not doing a four. And Keanu and I were doing the press tour about four months after we finished John Wick three in Japan. And we watched the movie again together. We're like, fuck, we didn't nail it. We didn't stick the landing. There's more to go.

Like, if we're going to go, and we went back to Lions again and said, look, we want to end this on like John Wicks. Whether John and John Wick or however you interpret the kill, John Wick, you know, John Wick dies. And this year was like, well, to Joe Drake's, the head of lines, he was like, well, if you're going to do it, you got to go big. So you're going to have to make a whole movie around and you're going to have to really tie it in. And you're like, okay, let us give us a whack. And that's what kind of brought us back to these John Wick for the whole, the first idea with the very first idea we had is John Wick has, we need closure. John Wick's going to go. He's going to get free. He's going to see the wife. And we're going to do it in a duel. And he's going to save someone's life to do it.

That's how we started right in the whole movie. that in the opening thing of hit him in Michael Wardport. Those are the first two ideas we ever had. Are you surprised that didn't get out? As I recall, it was not ruined prior to the movie coming out that he died at the end. No, I don't think anybody really thought to dig that deep or anything like that. They're just, well, it's a franchise. It's actually thing.

They're not going to kill their lead. They're going to keep going. And look, this is the way Keanu and we didn't do it as this. I call it the Shane ending where you don't know, confirm. That's how we saw it. Like, that wasn't us trying to, to, you know, give yourself an out or be clever. Yeah, give it an out or pacify a studio note or something like that. We just saw it as kind of a cool way because to us, I mean, you know, in my mind or Keanu's mind, like this whole thing is a fever dream from the first.

Like, John Wick died in the first movie. This is just a Jacob's Ladder fever dream, you know what I mean? So, you know, did John died? Did John Wick died? Is it a ruse to get the high table off his ass? is it a chance for a fresh start is it you know the fun thing is like in any good book like you decide yeah i i've come as far as they can we announce your turn to see what you can take it does john go to heaven or hell that's a good question man and that's something i mean have you and keanu discussed that

oh yeah we've have great debates about it and we're good at taking both sides i could be heaven one day in hell the next like you know in our world our overall thing is like These are all bad people. They're just, there's the good, bad, and the bad, bad, and the really bad. You know, it's the bizarro world. So, you know, we've had problems with that over the years of bringing other writers or other creatives. Like, they're always trying to make him a good guy. And I'm like, yeah, no, if you really look, the marquee's, the marquee's right.

The marquee's the one that fall in the rules. The marquee's trying to get order. The marquee's like, look, this is a shit world, but we need rules. John's the ass that keeps breaking the rules and fucking with shit and not always if you really think about

that's what we wanted to punch through in this movie because of John Hiroyukesanada died because of John Lance died like if John just followed the road like everybody touches turns to shit and that's the truth

John in all the movies never goes oops my dad like maybe my bad like you know Winston lost his hotel like everything's happening and John could have gone like you know

the answer to all these problems moms to even John's problem is like just give himself up hey man eat a bullet and it's all good but we just didn't want it together we and I don't believe some people don't think like like they're you can't just you know death can't be the only out right you know sometimes you have to keep messing up to you realize and take in like finally in this movie this is the first movie where John owns it has authorship over his actions and goes okay you're absolutely right and has to concoct away to make you know you only get one death so make it count and he does it by manipulating the situation and killing his way to to a situation where he can give

his life for Donnie. So what are the biggest ongoing or singular debates you've had with Keanu? You guys seem so in lockstep. What do you? It seems that way, like we usually end up in lockstep, but we always come out of it from different ideas. And like, Keanu is very internal, which is a big help to me because I'm very visual and see it from the outside in.

He's, and he's forced me over the years to really challenge and really. Like we talk about backstories and really dive into what they're thinking. It's made me by far a better director than I ever would have been without working with somebody like Keanu. So that's great. No, he comes out like he's like not a dark place, but he definitely comes out from a very internal. Like it's not that I would or wouldn't do this as John Wick. He's like, would John Wick do this because of this and he's done this? And it's made you think like complexities.

Like you can love a woman so entirely that you give your soul to her as he does with Helm. here and he's not going to get another love and he's going to do all this stuff because he's suffering but then still realize that he's an asshole and and be so flippant with how he shoots people like for all you know that the bad guys are just guys trying to make ends meet you know just get through the day just got a job to do the people that weren't very happy with us for staying and doing all this stuff and you know you're doing with rain weather exhaustion this is the end of the shoot um but every scene that or every setup that we did that leading to this you felt it and we shot pretty much in order so you saw where it was going

and you saw keanu was playing it and then the honesty that donnie had like they had by that time they had established a bit of a bond and then again there was no music obviously on the day but like i i'm already kind of knowing where i want to go with it and then shimiri does this and you have the dog on oh and you're like uh okay so by the time i wrapped this portion of it and i still hadn't completed it it changed the way I knew I was going to kind of get it and I knew it was the shot when Keanu goes down the steps coming up here and just falls over then I kind of knew like it hit me from behind the monitor like oh fuck that's the end of 10 years of my life you know and that's like that's you know and you do have that existential moment like I've known Keanu for 25 years

and the guys changed my life literally have changed my life and I know the story because I know what he's really, I've seen it. You know who the guy is, so it chokes you up. And you're like, oh, wow. And then all you can think about is like, did I mess this up or did I do it justice, you know? But I mean, Keanu and I often say, like, look, if my life was a sum total of 10 John Wicks, you know, that would be a life well spent. Were you relieved the audience went with us in the end? And after release, the reviews were great.

The box office was great. I guess on a personal note, yeah. like you don't you know like you're just human right everybody wants to be like you you want to be proven right you like your ego your dopamine whatever i think at the end of it i know what people suffered for my uh my vision and you just don't want to let them down and you know you talk tough in interviews like the wichowski's and this and you know Zach sander was an influence and all these people and you want to know that like at the end of it you know hopefully if they watch it if they ever see it they go okay i made a difference in somebody else and like hopefully

someday we're sitting down here and we're talking in a few years and somebody goes yeah i really like john wicks and that's why i got into directing man this is a blast uh you really did you you left it all out there on the screen and it's the proofs in the pudding the movie works it's amazing congratulations thanks for indulging these these three hours with me and um no it's all good thanks for having the interest i'm like you really want to watch it yeah okay i loved it man thanks for the time uh no my pleasure thank you want more of me and chats the hellskey talking all things john chapter 4. You can watch and listen to the entire commentary right now on patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to

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