Happy Sad Confused - Jon Hamm

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

It's taken five years but the dashing and delightful Jon Hamm has finally made his "Happy Sad Confused" debut! It was worth the wait. Jon joins Josh to talk about working with Clint Eastwood on "Richard Jewell", the challenges of following up "Mad Men" and that time he auditioned to play Superman! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't miss Swiped, a new movie inspired by the provocative real-life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform Bumble. Played by Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad Whitney Wolfe as she uses grit and ingenuity to break into the male-dominated tech industry to become the youngest female self-made billionaire. An official selection of the Toronto International Film Festival, the Hulu original film Swiped, is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, John Hamm, from Mad Men to working with Clint Eastwood on his new film, Richard Jewel. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz.

Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad Confused, one of our last podcasts. Nope, not permanently of the year, Sammy. I know you got excited for a second. I got scared. You were like, wait, is he making an announcement? No, I thought something's going to happen to you. That's where you go. Yeah.

Very casually, this is how I wanted to announce that. So, well, it's the last one. I am so vital and alive, Sammy. Ew. That's Sammy, really being encouraging, as always. But I'm very excited despite your wish for my death, because John Hamm is on the show today. A reason to stay alive, if any. I've been waiting for this day for a long time. John Hamm never been on the podcast. He's been, as I said...

You've been courting him for a while. And I openly said this to Mr. Hamm. I said, John, you are my white whale. You have been one of the white whales, at least, that I have been pursuing. Because he's just, he's charming, he's funny, he's slightly good to look at, I suppose. Not too hard on the eyes. So yes, he's been on the list for a while and just hasn't. worked out until now, and the timing was right. He's in the new, as I said, Quint Eastwood film, Richard Jewell, which is technically, you probably don't know this, Sammy. Most people don't know this. The second time John Hamm has been in a Quint Eastwood movie. What was the first? Wow, what a great, what a great question. His film debut, John's film debut, was in Space Cowboys. No. I believe he had one line, yes, so you can look that up. I probably will. Yeah, now you have to do the rest of the day.

So, yeah, so John came by to talk about this new, much more rich collaboration with Quint Eastwood on this film. If you don't know much about Richard Jewell, it is essentially the story of the 1996 Olympic Park bombing in which a security guard named Richard Jewel was essentially, there was a rush to judgment by law enforcement and the media, and he was basically convicted in public when it turns out he was actually a... hero. He was the person that saved lives. And I think to this day, to this day, a lot of people when they think Richard Jule, they think, oh, that's the guy that did that horrible thing in 96 when

in fact he was a hero. So if nothing else, this film writes that wrong and hopefully, you know, spreads the word. You know, Richard is no longer with us, but his mom's around, his family's around. So this is really a tribute to him in many ways. And it features a great leading performance from Paul Walter Houser, who's on the podcast very soon. We already taped that. He's great in it, and supporting performances from Olivia Wilde and Kathy Bates and John Ham. So that's what brought John into my weird little office for a chat, and I'm happy it did. He's got a lot going on. He always does.

He's going to be a new season of Curbs, Sammy. Yes, I'm very excited. I like when he's a funny guy. I mean, we talked about this. Like, if you look at his resume, so he's got these kind of like two careers. Obviously, Mad Men is what put him on the map. Heard of it. But then, I think it was kind of starting with, he says it was starting with S&L.

So Warren Michaels took a chance on S&L, him hosting. And then, of course, Tina Faye comes around. 30 Rock. 30 Rock. Game Changer. So funny on 30 Rock. And he, I'm like, it was all in that time. He also did like the, he was in the Jimmy Fallon Emmy's opener one year.

Yeah. Like, if you, like, honestly, if you think of any cool comedy of the last 10 years, he's popped up. Like all the cool comedy nerds. Yes, bridesmaids. of course, Kimi Schmidt, he's been on, he's just a go-to, he knows how to play off his looks and his image, and he's not afraid to do that. And he's always just really funny. In addition to, you know, being a solid, like, leading man or supporting player, as in the case of Richard Jewel, he annoyingly can do it all. He was also in that Adam Driver movie, the Amazon one.

Which, oh, the report. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, and that's recent. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So he's got, he's got a lot going on. So busy guy. Busy guy. Thrill to have him on, hopefully the first of many appearances on Happy Say I Confused. So that's the main event today. Other big event, we should mention Sammy. Sammy's being a huge help on this massive event, this historic moment in Happy Say I Confused History. This is big guys.

If you don't know it already, we're going live. Yep. We're doing it. December 22nd, this Sunday, if you are within 3,000 square miles, you better get in the car right now and start driving. If tickets are still available. Tickets are still available.

They might be. But no, tickets are available. I think VIP tickets are sold out, but there are the general admission. We have a lot. So here's the nuts and bolts of it. We're doing our first live event at the Bell House in Brooklyn, December 22nd. That's a Sunday night. It's 6 p.m.

It's me. It's David Harbor is the main act, the main event. It's going to be a great fun conversation. We have Happy Say I Confused, the previous guest, Justin Long, who's always. hysterical and fun. Patrick Wilson's going to be there. Patrick Wilson's going to sing for us. Oh my God. And play an instrument? Perhaps play an instrument. If we can figure out how to make that happen. We'll figure it out. I believe in you, us. We'll figure it out. Yeah. And some surprises too. Some giveaways. I should mention Outlander fans. Sam Hewinn is a part of this event in some ways in that he has contributed a bunch of

really cool autographed stuff. So there's a bunch of autographed books. Do you want me? I need to go pick those up personally for, I can pick those up. Oh, wow. That's weird. You've never offered before. No, I want to go above and beyond for this. So just if you need me to personally pick up the signed items from Sam Hewant, I can make time. Right.

And hopefully he's like in the shower when that happens. Sam. Come on, man. Oh, sorry. I made it weird. Come on. Okay. Whatever.

We'll see what we can do about that. Thank you. But yes, if you're an Outlander fan, this is a good opportunity because we have a bunch of of free stuff, and it's not a gigantic audience, so you have a decent shot at getting some really cool autograph Sam Hewin stuff if you come to the event. So, yeah, really cool. And some other stuff, too, I think. So, yeah, and we're still, it's still coming together. It's going to be, it's going to be really fun. And this has been a fun event to, uh, to finally get to the stage. And I hope. It's been your dream for a long time. I don't let's not go that far. Well, it's

something you've sort of wanted, you sort of talked about. It's been on the list. It's been on the list for a while. So yes, December 22nd, the way to get tickets, the bellhouse, n.com is where you can get tickets. And also, if you just check me out on social media, I've been mentioning it, so you won't be able to miss it. So hope to see some of you guys there. It's going to be a fun night in Brooklyn. Other than that, what else? Sammy, that's just, it's big movie season. Oh, Josh, do you have your top 10 list yet? No, I was just saying to Sammy. I don't. And I, and I'm really, oh, I'm stressed. I'm just stressed, guys. I'm just stressed. I'm Still some major movies I haven't seen.

Oh, my God. I'm seeing Star Wars tomorrow. Goo, go. Okay. By the next time you'll hear me on Happy Second Fused, I'll probably have seen it four or five times. I have a bunch of tickets bought. I'm so worried for you. Why?

What if you don't like it? Shut up. You take that back. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm literally worried for you. If you don't ever hear from me again, that means I didn't like it and I've gone to live a life as much like Luke Skywalker and the last Jedi by himself. Oh, sorry. I'm doing a memoriam for you on Sunday night.

Perfect. Josh's going to be here. He's mourning how much he hated the latest Star Wars movie. I won't. It's going to be fantastic, positive thinking. That's hope, yeah. I think that's enough of a preamble, right? Should we get to John Hamm?

Everyone's fast forwarded anyway. Yeah. If you're still listening, I don't know what your problem is. Maybe the fast forward button isn't working for them. I pity you. Enjoy this conversation with John Hamm. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to happy, sad, confused. And hope you guys are having a lovely holiday season.

I hope to see some of you guys in Brooklyn this Sunday night. Here's John. Do you have any action figures? I have a Funco, a Don Draper Funko. Oh, that's fun. It just came out with those. John Hamm is in the office. No formal introduction.

We're just talking action figures in Funco's. Yeah, I guess there are no action figures associated with Richard Jewell. Probably not. This isn't the one. That would be, Tom. Dissinant, I think. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. But welcome. Welcome to my office and welcome to the podcast. Thank you. You've been kind of one of my white whales for a lot of John. Let's leave race out of it. No, no.

Any kind of whale. Blue whales, sperm whale. That sounds wrong too. I mean, listen, it's 2019. We can get busted for anything. Because I, of course, admire your talent, but also you're just a good guest.

You're a good classic, talk show chat show guests thank you thank you I agree okay well wait so I guess humility's not in the repertoire it's part of being a good guest right to know what you've got exploit it does that does that in a non facetious way do you take a little pride in like you know you grew up loving pop culture watching the late night chat shows and you're right now one of the you're like obviously an SNL regular whenever you pop up on a late night show like you deliver the goods. You're like one of those go-to guys that always

is kind of fun. I mean, I guess there's two ways to look at stuff like that. You know, you can look at it as work. Right. And in some ways it is. You know, it's part of the gig, right? You're promoting a project or you're promoting yourself or whatever it is. But you can also

look at it in the way of like, well, it can be fun. And you should try to, I guess, make it fun. Yeah. And I guess my My kind of original, especially with the podcast of it all, was mostly with comedians. So the coin of the realm was laughter and fun and goofing off. And it wasn't, and no one, you know, it wasn't serious back in the old days.

Now it's like money-making thing for people. But yeah, I do try to have fun with it and kind of lean into it, whether it's, you know, Fallon or even like, you know, the morning shows or whatever. And if it's, you know, it's obviously if it's a certain... Right, a serious subject. You're not goofing on it. But, but yeah, I mean, people want to be entertained, I guess. Yeah, I always like, I mean, it's different, and he's a different kind of type.

But, like, I don't know if Ferrell till his dying day will always, like, take every opportunity of a talk show to just do a bit. Well, you know, my favorite growing up, like, when I would watch Johnny Carson, my, some of my favorite guests on it were guys like Charles Groden who would be just deliberately antagonistic. and it was so funny because that was his that was just his schick and I think a lot of people didn't get it a lot of people were like why is this man being so rude to Johnny Carson

he was so committed but Johnny really loved it and I just remember watching it with my dad and being like oh this guy's kind of doing like a next level meta thing that's really funny so I appreciate that stuff he would do with Letterman too wouldn't he I feel like that was his talk show persona just like you don't want me here

why are you right you don't want you me here. I don't want to be here. Right. That's even the groan face you just gave me. Classic groaning face. Do you, did you ever, do you, I mean, what makes you nervous? Do any kind of those events, word shows, talk shows, get you a little bit? Nothing used to make me nervous. I think now, unfortunately, every word and action you say is so part and parceled and parsed out that even miss speaking in a, in a facetious way or in a, in an attempt to be humorous way can get you canceled or get you, you know,

you have to make a 12-part meaucalpa or a explanation or whatever. I don't know. I don't, I think, unfortunately, what that kind of some of that has led to is a lack of, or people don't want to say anything. So you just regurgitate talking points, which I find boring and silly. and I think it's really hindered any discussion, any serious discussion of stuff, which is, you know, not too far away from the point of Richard Jewel. Well, you're talking to the guy that just called you a white whale and it's about to be canceled.

Exactly. You're fucked. This is my last episode. Thanks for going out with a bang. I never thought it would be that. That would ever. Yeah, no, you never know what it's going to be. That's the thing. So speaking, segueing into the worthy cause that you're supporting, which is this great film, Richard Jewell, obviously directed by the great Clint Eastwood, still going strong at, what, 89 years old. He's, he's up there, but he is, you wouldn't know it to work with him or talk to him or hang out with him or, I mean, we flew down to Atlanta and got to the hotel. And I was like, so see you at dinner. he goes, yeah, but I'm going to work out first.

Like, what? He just got off like a five-hour flight. Like, don't you want to, like, take a nap? You can check out, buddy. It's like, you've done your time. Yeah, I'm going to hit the gym. Like, if you get a punch now, it's okay. Yeah, okay, bud.

We'll forgive it. All right. I mean, you know, that's, that's Clint. Like, he just, he only knows, I mean, he's been doing it for, he's been directing longer than I've been alive. Right. And he's been in this business for 70 years. And he, like, he's been,

like reinvents like I mean his directing career was like his second act and like so he's like the biggest movie star of the time and then he's like you know I'm gonna try directing and then he becomes like one of the top 10 great American filmmakers is an unbelievable musician and like he's just got he's got a length and breadth to his career into his life that is so admirable and impressive and he was telling stories kind of the other day he's like well we were in Seattle with Quincy Jones and Miles Davis. I was like, what? Of course you were.

You'll be 90 and you'll be telling your stories of Rudd and Bill Hader and the time you went to Largo together. Somehow it doesn't resonate like Quincy Jones and Miles Davis and Clint Eastwood rolling through Seattle

in 1958. Don't sell your crew short. We'll see. So, I mean, it's legendary the way He runs a set, and I've heard you talk about the efficiency with which he does it. And I don't think it's even just about age. It sounds like he always kind of did it this way, where it's just a few takes. The funny thing is, and I didn't realize it until he told this story,

but over the course of doing press for the film, we were talking to a big group of a sag screening of actors, and he said, you know, the reason I run it like that is because when I started my career on Raw Hyde, you know, whenever that was. 50s. He said, you know, we were on the set, and there was these, you know, bells would go off and quiet on the set, and somebody would be yelling action, and the horses would get spooked and all this stuff. And he just was like, this doesn't seem to be very amenable to good acting or good anything. It's just one kind of jolt after another, and then you're supposed to be relaxed and cool. Right. The whole goal is to get you guys to a college zone.

Yeah, and like a place. Shoot a gun off is not the way to do. Exactly. Or scream action in your face. And like, go-h! So he said, I just thought there must be a better way to do it. And it was when he was over in Italy making the Spaghetti's, that he kind of started thinking, like, hey, can we not scream and yell and do this whole thing? Because they, you know, the Italian cinema at that time was famously like sort of non-sync sound, they didn't have to like, you know, ring a bell and clap the board and do the thing. You just go when you go and then stop when you stop.

And that's how he kind of created his sort of famously low-key approach. And I didn't realize it, but it's a remarkably effective way to put everyone at ease. And I didn't realize there was method to that madness. And once I did, I was like, oh, that's really wise. And it really does work. Do you tend to be the actor that, like, is your first take generally the one you're happy with, or do you... I mean, everybody deserves a second take, and I think, you know, movie making has a lot of specific needs in many ways. And I think, you know, Clint's not a person who will sacrifice quality for expediency at all.

But there will be times when he's like, you know, I got what I need it. The shot's super wide. I'm going to be in it for two seconds at the top and the bottom of the scene. It doesn't matter if you guys tap dance in the middle of it. I'll never be in the shot. And I can appreciate that. The few times I've directed stuff for film,

I can appreciate literally the first time I directed, I was like, I can't believe I've just wasted everybody's time shooting the master 15 times when we don't need it. And I was, in my head, I was like, oh, I want everybody to get up to speed and this and that. And you just don't want to be, I'm sure you're in your head. You're like, I don't want to be that guy that's fucked in the edit room. And like, I just want to cover myself.

Exactly, exactly. But you realize, you know, there are shortcuts that you can take. And that's how you make your days, especially on a TV set. Well, yeah, and I think all the, the great filmmakers I always can see, like, assertitude when I'm watching their film. Like, there's no other way to shoot it. Like, they, it's not master, you know, reverse, reverse. It's like, there's a point of view and there's a vision.

Yeah, and this is the way. They're cutting it in their head. Barbay Schroeder directed an episode of Madman, and it was one of the great experiences I had on that show because his style was not dissimilar to Clint's. He was just very loose, and he was like, just do this. I've got what I need. Do you want another one?

If not, that's great. And we had these incredibly efficient days that were not fraught with, like, oh, are we not getting the most important thing of this close-up on the thing? He would just go, no, no, no, I know what it's going to look like. And it was impressive because you realize that guy's been around the block a few times. So technically speaking, this is not your first collaboration with Clint.

Mm-hmm. You who appeared in Space Cowboys. Now, forgive me, John. It's been a while. You don't remember? Well, I remember Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah, he was in it. I remember Donald Sutherland.

He was in it. James Garner? Sure, he was in it. Clint was in it. Clint was in it. But I was too. No, I had one line. and my line was essentially like

he's over there basically referring somebody who's looking for Tommy Lee Jones and he comes up to me and I see he's over there. And yeah, it was a day on a movie set and working on a Clint East movie and I was like, this is so cool. I don't know what I'm doing but this is amazing and it was

fun and it was again. It was like a nine hour day. We had stunts and we had airplanes and we had all this other stuff but it's just quick so when this one comes around is it one of the is quentin one of those guys like I mean the subject matter is obviously fascinating but is it the kind of thing where Clint's interested you're like yeah that's that's an experience you know he's not going to make 20 more films I want to be for sure there's definitely that uh definitely that and you and you think okay you know not not to be kind of morbid but how many more does he have in him

but also you know this this story I remember when this happened And I remember the whole arc of the story, and I remember when the whole thing turned, and I remember just watching as a person with nothing invested in this other than being an American and watching this kind of weird miscarriage of justice, and then watching it all just kind of fade away to the next thing that was in the news cycle without any kind of apology or any kind of retribution or any kind of remunerance in any way. and you think, like, oh, well, is that what it is now? We're all just disposable in the cycle. Like, oh, sorry, we fucked up, except we're not going to say sorry. We're just going to move on to the next thing. And your life is, you know, part of our entertainment. It's just ash.

Yeah. And your family's life is, and your friends are just ruined. And, whoops, we got, you know, tough shit. It's also crazy the thing when you say that, like, because I think of, I mean, that's, what, 96, right? 23 years ago, and like, if anything, the news cycle has, like, is on steroids now. It was moving quick then, because cable news was coming before. Cable news was around. This was in the hometown of CNN.

The Internet was in its infancy. So it wasn't, the Internet wasn't where people, like, looked for news very much, but it was still a thing. And, yeah, it was a real competitive environment for misinformation to thrive. and you put it in the cauldron of the Olympics and the international spotlight is on it and this is America's first Olympics since L.A., summer Olympics since L.A. in 84. And, yeah, and Oklahoma City had just happened

and the first World Trade Center bomb had gone off in 93 and 94 respectively or 4 and 3 respectively. And it was, I just remember thinking like, oh, I guess this is the new normal now. People just blow shit up in the United States. States like that's fucked up that's terrible and then when they finally caught the guy that did it eric rudolph who's a real piece of shit and is now living the rest of his life times a million in a supermax uh nobody really recognized it because it was after 9-11 that they found

him right yeah i have zero memory of very very few people do and so so therefore the the person whose name is most associated with this positive well negatively is Richard and you know his mom is still alive and she's dealing with it every day and I think in a lot of ways this movie

coming out and and bearing Clint's and premature and Paul Walter Hauser's amazing performance and heartbreaking performance as Richard is given her some closure and a measure of respect for

for the life and the legacy of her son. I mean, not to compare what he went through to your life. You haven't been accused of bombing anything, but you've been through, like, the gossip mill in your career when you came to fame. I'm sure, like, you've seen the headlines that you're, like, you know, raising your fist to. Did it take you a while to figure out

how to handle shit like that? That probably still comes up. Yeah, I mean, part of it is, it's weird because part of it is you have to ignore, it because to respond to it just gives it another wash in the cycle. And then part of it is, well, I don't want to ignore it. It's false. People are deliberately spreading falsehoods about me or about someone I care about or my

family or what have you. So it's a bit of a catch-22. And I think it's viewed as entertaining by a lot of people and by a lot of, you know, entertainment corporations they view it as entertainment yeah it's sort of like poke the bear ha ha ha and I think with the kind of reality television aspect of it all there are people who lean into being poked and how fun that is and the the real housewives or the Kardashians or what have you like those people are monetizing it weaponizing it in many ways but that's something you commit that's like that's a

life choice yeah That's a real, then you have to live that life positively and negatively. And yeah, you'll make money off of it and yeah, you'll get exposure off of it, but at what cost. So I think there's a real calculus to be determined. And I don't think we as a consumer culture have quite figured out what the equation is. But I do feel like there's a better way to kind of engage with that to where it doesn't feel so cruel. I think we're really leaning into this cruelty aspect of it

that I don't find very appealing or in fact very American. I think it's mean and it's sad. That was a big part of like Richard. They were, you know, look, oh, this fat idiot. Sure. Like, look at what a dummy. He lives with his mom.

You know, all of this stuff. And you're kind of like, what does that have to do with anything? you know this guy saved hundreds of lives and you're like ha ha you're fat that's very weird so you mentioned and i think it's running after this but i spoke to it to paul who delivers this fantastic performance and for those that haven't don't associate the name yet he was great in it tanya and he's kind of popping up in all these great things and it's really cool to see him like front and center and something like yeah get a chance to really shine i'm curious like so you're like you're part of the ensemble around this guy you're probably helping prop this guy up

like he really delivers. Does that, I mean, this is his first time number one on the call sheet. Like, does that remind you? I mean, Mad Men was probably your first time, probably sustained as number one on the call sheet. First time ever. When you see Paul doing that, are you like, yeah, I mean, I get it.

I understand what it feels like. It's a lot of responsibility. And it's a lot of responsibility when it's a feature. It's a lot of responsibility when it's a television series. It's just a lot. like you're the you're the main guy and for better or for worse you're setting the tone of of the set and you know it's a little bit different in this one whereas Clint's kind of setting the tone of what's on the set but as as number one you really are uh looked up to by

by the rest of the thing for better for worse and I just remember being you know watching a lot of my friends go through kind of the thing of like being supporting players and then moving up to leads and like and and them asking advice what do I do what's it like what's it going to be there's there's no way for me to explain it you just have to go through it yeah and you know Paul has done it in a in a very uh just an elegant way of just really appreciating it and being present in and also delivering. And he does. He delivers a really a beautiful performance.

And really the triangle between Paul and Sam Rockwell, who plays his lawyer in the film, and Kathy Bates, who plays his mom in the film, is the beating heart of the movie. Because you can just see that these three people care about each other so deeply. And it's three against the world at a certain point. And you just, you feel so deeply, because of their... performances, you feel so deeply for how wrong they were. Do you go back away with Rockwell, too?

I've known Sammy for a long time. We've never worked together. I worked with Leslie, his significant other on tag. But Sammy and Jeremy Renner are good buds, and they were hanging, we were all in Boston when I was doing the town. Rinner and I were doing the town. I think Leslie Bibb was doing like the zookeeper or something.

So we all hung out then. That's when I, I've known Sam for the better part of the decade yeah he's the best so okay um you were talking about like the elegant way that that Paul kind of like rose to the occasion did you feel like it took you a second to like so it's it what's interesting to me about madman is like for for those just watching like from the outside in it was like this fully formed like adult dude that we hadn't really a lot of us hadn't seen before just like came out of nowhere in a way like and you know take this for what it's worth but like when cluny kind of like came around on er he was like Like, this is like a man.

This is a guy that's like, he's not 22. He's just like, and like, where has he been? Did it, in retrospect, are you kind of happy it all happened when it did? Well, I have no other experience, you know, to compare it to. But, I mean, you know, I just, I just, I just remember thinking like, well, it's not my first rodeo. Like, it's not my first TV show. It's not my first time being a regular on TV show. It's not my first time on a set.

It's not my first time on a set. It's not my first, certainly not my first time acting. And so, and in many ways, that was the case for kind of one through six on the call sheet on our shows, you know, between me and Christina and Vincent Carthizer and Elizabeth Moss and Slattery. Like, we all had been on shows and we'd all been, had various rules and, and, of, you know, varying import. But we all knew what we were doing. But we weren't people that were necessarily super recognizable. And so I guess, you know, I don't know. Like I look at these kids now that are, whether they're like Netflix superstars or YouTube kids or whatever.

And I just think like, good luck. I don't know. I don't know what that's going to be like in 10 years and 15 years and whatever. I don't know. I mean, and it's really not up to me to care about, you know. I just think good luck. I wish them all the best. You know, I think the way that the younger generation is consuming media is completely different.

I don't know what quibby is going to be. I don't know what YouTube's going to turn into. It is funny, like, you know, I could walk down the street and depending on the demographics of the street be completely unrecognizable or mobbed. And then some YouTube kid could walk behind me and, you know, somebody would be like the whole place would turn into, you know, a hard day's night. They don't know what that is. Bad reference. No, of course. Yeah, it's very interesting.

And I think, you know, I don't judge it. Yeah. I don't, I have no judgment against it. I think I judge it at first. When YouTube starts to come around, you're like, oh, God, oh, my. Well, but it is what it is. It's for this generation. It's what they, that's what they came up with, and that's what they like, and that's what they know, honestly.

It's like, you know, video games for a certain generation, or now watching people play video games as entertaining for people somehow. Okay, like, whatever, you know, it is what it is. I long ago gave up kind of judging that idea of, oh, because something's not for me, therefore it has no worth. I think that that's a one-way ticket to crazy land. You'll just drive yourself nuts. So when you're growing up, as I understand it, you're one of those annoying people that both was skilled in and interested in athletics, but also kind of into the nerdy shit, too. Well, I was an only child. So, I mean, I have two half-sisters, but they didn't live with my mom and I.

Right. So I read a lot of books. I watched a lot of TV. I read a lot of comic books. But I also was in a lot of after-school programs and Cub Scouts and athletics. And I was in a bowling league. I just, I like to do a lot of stuff because I was encouraged to do it. And then I was really fortunate to go to a middle school and high school where I was encouraged to do the same thing, just try everything. and it wasn't that you had to be great at it. It was just that you had to try it. And if you didn't like it, at the end of the semester, you could not do it anymore. Right. So it was a pretty cool way to introduce kids to stuff

that they may not have thought that they were good at. And they may not have been good at, but they liked it enough to work hard enough to get good at it. Whether it's art or singing or sculpture or math or, you know, writing or what have you. Sure. Wrestling, swimming, basketball, what have you. And we were encouraged to do all of that.

So I was a, yeah, I was a three-sport varsity athlete. I was in my senior theater musical. We did a Godspell, and I was an honors student in, you know, class. So we were just encouraged to achieve, and it was something that wasn't looked down. upon you weren't looked on as oh you're trying too hard or you're an elite like it was like can't we all be elites isn't that we're all kind of looking

for like to really be good at what we do instead of be average at what we do and demand that somebody call average great good enough yeah what were your movies what were the what were the ones you knew by heart like pretty much

the 80s comedy so it was Fletch and Beverly Hills cop and Top Gun which wasn't a comedy but had some weird elements to it. Yeah, I mean, you know, that whole

80s, Uvra was you know, Stripes, Caddyshack, like all Bill Murray's stuff, Ghostbusters, Blues Brothers, you know. Are you losing your mind that your buddy Rudd is in the new Ghostbusters? It looks really good. I just saw the trailer. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, it looks, it looks awesome he kind of stealthed that one on us because we were all like you're doing what like didn't they just remake that he's like no it's different i was like and it looks really good i'm excited to see it i know i'm hopeful i'm trying yeah yeah yeah i mean i like the last one too i like the last one too but but i think uh i think this is actually a kind of an interesting cool way to get back into it yeah so in the wake of in the wake of madman you had some kind of like or one kind of madman started to hit you had a lot of opportunity a lot of big decision to make for the first time, probably in your career,

for then you're a jobbing actor, you're probably taking what you can get, and all of a sudden you have the luxury and the curse of choice. And it seems like you took that pretty seriously, especially when it comes to, like, leading, being a leading guy. Like, my sense is,

you didn't want to, like, jump into the wrong kind of things, like being front and center. Is that accurate? Is that, in retrospect, were you tentative, too tentative? What was your attitude? You know, I honestly don't know. I definitely felt like there was a

reticence on my part to like grab with both hands. Like, this is all mine. A, I just wasn't raised that way, but B, like, it felt like that's a little thirsty, as the kids say these days, and a little unappealing, honestly. Lord Michaels used to say, how can we miss you if you won't go away? And I thought, that's a smart way to look at it. but mostly it was you know because i played don draper then every every script i got was a draper

2.0 kind of version and i thought well i kind of do that on my day job like why would i want to go from that and go do it again yeah there's got to be something better out there and so the ones that i picked were you know whether it was sort of a family oriented movie like million dollar arm or um what have you comedies you know bridesmaids and and 30 Rock and stuff like that. It was just, it was kind of a pivot away from the, the serious kind of hard drama that was madman. And what it really afforded me, fortunately in my career now, is that I can, I have credibility on, on really both sides of that aisle. I can, I've got comedy cred and chops and people that like to work with me on that and doing the Kimmy Schmidt movie that's going to come out on Netflix.

and then, you know, I can do something like this where it's a drama about real things. Yeah, it feels like on the comedy aspect, I just saw you pop up in the curb trailer too. Oh, yeah, I just saw that too. Can't wait for that. It feels like 30 Rock was the game changer, probably. Well, and 30 Rock came because Lorne was nice enough

to take a chance on me on hosting SNL. I remember coming back from the read-through on Wednesday, the first time I hosted and the phone ringing in my dressing room at 8H and picking up the phone like, hello? Did you mean to call this phone?

And it was Robert Carlock from 30 Rock. Hey, we got this part on 30 Rock. Would you maybe want to do it? I was like, yes. Yes, I do. I do want to do that. The smartest, funniest show. Because it was, yeah, everything about that show

was great. And I was like, yep, I want to do it. And then that turned into a long relationship not only with that show, but with Tina and Robert and Kimmy Schmidt and what have you. Was it fun to play? Just one of the world's great morons? Like, you and Corell, I feel like are the all-timers. Well, I mean, I've got, they've written two of them for me now with the Reverend, but yeah, it was, it was, it was interesting, you know? It was an interesting process to go through because I hadn't really done a lot of like hard comedy like that. So I was genuinely

like, tell me what you want. Tell me what you want me to do. And you know, it's, it's hard to mess that up. The comedy's kind of baked in, so they're good at what they do. I mean, it's, but like, to see your resume, like, especially, like, you pop, you pop in to every, like, great

comedy in the last, like, ten years, I would say. Like, they all, like, they know you deliver, you're receptive to it, your game. Kind of to my agent's chagrin, yeah. Really? Are they, like, okay, enough of that? Be less accessible. Really?

Yeah. That's the right choices. I mean, even something I would say like on seven days in hell, by the way, is like a great choice. Like that's a fun. Well, again, like Samberg and those guys, like, I just think that they're so funny. And it's always, even just doing stuff like that is, I don't know, I think it makes you live longer when you laugh and you have a good time. Yeah. What about an experience on a different aspect with, like Edgar Wright on the Bigger.

Edgar's style is incredibly easy to work with because he's so hyper-prepared that talk about a person who's got it cut together in his head. But he also is able to kind of communicate that in the sense of he will have giant whiteboards up with all the shots that we need to get on the day and there'll be a lot of them. Because if you've seen his films,

you know that there's a million cuts and there's a million inserts and all these things. But you'll just watch as we go through the day and you'll see, as you read X every shot that you get, you go, oh, we're making progress on this day. It's right there. You can see it. It's not this kind of idea of,

are we getting anything that we like? Is anything happening? So you definitely feel like you're in very good hands. And Edgar's a guy that works with a lot of the same people, a lot of the time, and has been making movies since he was a teenager. I mean, he's a real, he's a crazy cinephile. I mean, there's not a movie that you could name that Edgar hasn't seen at least once.

I would be shocked. You would have to dig pretty deep into some pretty obscure cinema. And even then, I bet he's at least heard of it. So I've stayed at his house in L.A. once or twice, and the sheer amount of films that he has in his house, it's like, it's like a library. crazy. He's like Tarantino Scorsese of that elk. Very much so.

And by the way, he and Quentin are friends and I think because they have that shared vocabulary that need to kind of just talk in film terms. Yeah. There's a book for every reference, for every life experience. It's so true. I mean, and you watch, you know, Once Upon a Time or I'm really excited to see Edgar's next one, which will be called Last Night in Soho. I got to visit the set on that one. I happened to be in London doing something and they were shooting at your motel.

Yeah, it's a very, it's a very, much of a darker thriller kind of genre-y thing, which will be interesting. I'll see what he does with that. Do you have the same sort of list that I, the list that I would expect you to have of the filmmakers that, like, would call you? Yeah. Sure. I mean, there's, you know, a lot of them are hanging on your wall here. Not literally just for the record. Their posters are hanging on your wall. But, you know, you've got, if I'm just going left to right, Martin Scorsese, David Lynch, Robert Zemeckis, and John Carpenter. So those are, those are some pretty great. It's a good starting.

George Miller behind you over here. George Miller behind me. And Terry Gilliam. So, yeah, I mean, those are people for, yeah, you know, it wouldn't take much for me to say yes. But, yeah, you know, they're doing their thing, and hopefully our paths will cross. For a few years there, I feel like I would always see you at things like at Sundance or something and different random things. And it was always like a new fan art of you as Superman or Batman. to ask you about.

Yeah. And so even if we're looking in the rear view now, if you feel like your superhero time has passed, which I don't necessarily, I'm not saying, but like, did anything come, like, did you ever actually meet with, I mean, you worked with Zach Snyder. Did Zach ever, like, bring you in for him?

The only time I audition for Superman was for the Brian singer version. That was years ago. Before I really even. It was before Madman? It was well before Madman. Oh, wow. I was probably 30.

Did you put the suit on? No, I just read for it. And I remember asking at the time, the casting director, the people that were there, I was like, can I make this funny? Like, can it be a little funny? I just, I grew up with, you know, the 70s version of Superman, which was kind of funny. Yeah. And so I did a take on it, and they really liked it.

And the feedback was, we're going younger. That was when I was 30. I was like, okay. Okay, I see where this is going. And they cast Brandon Ralph, and that was fine. But no, you know, I don't know. I think there's a lot of, like, I think there's a lot of stories to be told in that world.

And I think that they're, what you're seeing now is a real embracing of that idea that you can really tell multiple storylines, different versions. of these stories. Joker, obviously. Joker, obviously, is a perfect example of it, but, you know,

even within the, the Batman storylines, there are several different iterations of you know, the Flashpoint version of Batman. There's so many different versions that I think that it'll be interesting to see. I don't know. I don't think

I don't think that the book is closed on that for me. We'll see. I don't know. It's a, it takes it takes a lot of people at a lot of high levels and at studio level to kind of sign off on that stuff and it's a big gamble because they're spending a ton of money. But yeah, I mean, it's always been interesting

to see these kind of iterations of me, whether it's as cable or as Batman or Superman or what have you. Because mostly they're written by, drawn by comics guys and it's cool. You know what? It's appreciated. It really is appreciated. Are you watching Watchmen? I am. I'm really digging Watchmen. I'm all caught up.

It's another like succession. It's one of those Sunday night shows. I'm just so glad it's not all out at once. Yes, it's like, again, because the anticipatory factor is so off the chart for me. And when I saw the one about the nostalgia, the black and white one that was so elegantly done. The right justice one, yeah. Yeah, that was so cool. And then the next, the one last week was such a good penultimate episode, like to set it up.

I'm like, I can't wait to see how they figure this out. I just had Yaya Abdul Mateo in last week. And, yeah, it was a, it's been a treat. Yeah, it really has. I was wondering how they were going to, I kind of have to rewatch it because I kind of felt like I saw like some. Oh, yeah. If you go back, I read some articles that I didn't recognize at the time. Not even Easter eggs, but like some like hints on, huh, you're going to get Dr. Manhattan.

into this like what's the what's the move going to be but even I was like oh shit that's pretty cool yeah so goosebumps moments right that's really cool yeah when the life on Mars a song kicked in at the end of the two episodes ago I was like hair in the back of your neck amazing right speaking of hair on the back of your neck a little bit on the set of top gun I mean it's not Tony Scott but it's it feels like it feels like a Tony Scott film no it's uh it's very much in the style of and it's you know I didn't

I wasn't given the opportunity to my character is sort of based on land or on ship so I wasn't in the plane but a lot of the younger kids were really I think having the time of their lives and I think you know half of them weren't born when the first one came out but

but they can definitely identify with the with the touchstone pop culture touchstone capacity that this movie was, and especially that, you know, there's not a lot of guys left in the movie universe that are Tom Cruise's, and he is one of a kind, and he's a, you know, national treasure, and he's just, he's just an energizer buddy.

I mean, he just goes and goes and goes and isn't happy until it's perfect. And there's really something to be said for that, you know. It's impressive. So no shirtless volleyball, but you're at the watchtower, watching the shirtless volleyball game basically. I got the binoculars out checking everybody. You're doing great.

Looking good, boys. Let's oil it up and do it again. Oh, God. That's your catchphrase, though, for years. Exactly. It has been since the division. Oh, deep cut. There you go.

So, happy holidays to you, sir. You're taking a break? Do you have some stuff lined up in the next to the new year? I don't think anything I can definitively say that I'm doing. I've got a couple maybes. Is New York home now or is L.A.? Mostly L.A. I have a place here that I share with my aunt.

It's just kind of a place to keep clothes and whatnot. But it's nice enough and convenient. And I can fly here without a big bag or anything like that, which is nice. But no, mostly I stay in L.A. I'll go back. I'll stick around for a week or so here after I'm done with press and see some friends and go to some holiday parties and hang out. but mostly I'm going.

I'll be home for the holidays. Have you done theater here in New York? Not Broadway. Is that interest you at all? Depending on the project and the people attached. Godspell revival? Take it all the way back. I think we've...

You did it? Why improve on perfection? Yeah, exactly. It was great when I was in 12th grade. I don't think I could sing those notes anymore. But, you know, I have tremendous respect for the people that put the time and the effort

into live theater it's such a different muscle and it's it's just impressive I watched my ex go through it for years and I watched the kind of toll it took on her body and her voice and everything it's it's a thing

it's like a 90 minute workout eight times a week and that's a lot and I've got a lot of friends that I support when they do Slattery and Dan and Master Georgia Bobby Canevali a lot of these guys

that I know. And I think Bobby's doing Medea with Rose. So I'll definitely go check that out. But yeah, I mean, I love going to see it. I would love to maybe do it if the right thing came along. But as my friend said, like, you got to really want to do it. Like, because it's a grueling schedule. Yeah, some actor.

Especially if it's a tough play or like something you really got to dig into. It's not fun. Yeah, I think one actor I haven't here recently. I can't remember which mentioned like the last thing you want to be is like two or three months into a six month run on a play and realize you're just on autopilot and just not into it because that's that's where the real work is yeah true and it's true and look I think anybody will tell you like there's nobody's 100% for 100% of the place you're sick you're tired you know you're you're got other shit going on you're yeah

worried about XYZ your kids sick or going to school whatever you know there's a million different things yeah you got to kind of manage all that I'm glad it finally happened. The podcast is in the books. You're welcome here anytime, sir. Thank you. I would offer you to do one of these stupid Michael Shannon-esque sketches, but it sounds like your agents are trying to poo you doing comedy anymore.

But if you have one more in you, John, at some point, put on a silly costume for me. We'll have some fun. All right. Anytime. I'll come in and I'll crash somebody else's podcast. There you go. Fair enough. Congratulations on Richard Jewell.

Everybody should check it out. And have a great holiday. Thanks, buddy. You too. Appreciate it. Cheers. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like, Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't.

He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come. come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where you talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night.

We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Thank you.