Happy Sad Confused - Jon M. Chu, Vol. II

Episode Date: June 9, 2021

The buzz has been building and we're happy to report that the hype is real, "In The Heights" delivers! At the helm is Jon M. Chu, a filmmaker who's been dreaming of directing a movie musical since he was a kid. As you'll see from the film, Jon has the chops. On this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", Jon returns to the podcast to talk about how he brought Lin Manuel Miranda's work to life, kept it personal, and honored a culture. Plus, Jon and Josh talk the upcoming "Wicked" musical, the "Crazy Rich Asians" sequel, and their mutual love of "Willow". Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy Sayed Confused, Director John M. Chu delivers a big crowd pleaser with In the Heights. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Mr. John M. Chu, filmmaker extraordinaire, coming off of Crazy Rich Asians with what is sure to be another big hit, a big

Proud Pleaser, as I said, in the Heights, one of the films of the summer, if not the year. And I was thrilled to have him back on the podcast. John was last on the show five years ago prior to Crazy Rich Asians. He's obviously in a much different part of his career right now, helming two back-to-back, hugely successful, just artistically speaking. We obviously don't know what the box office is going to be for In the Heights, but I can tell you, having seen it twice, this one delivers. It is, of course, from the mind of Lynn Manuel Miranda, based on his award-winning musical that came before Hamilton and is now being realized on the big screen shot on location in the heights of New York.

And, yeah, as I said, this one really delivers. If you've seen the ads for it, you've maybe heard the testimonials from the likes of Joanne Johnson and Oprah and everybody agrees. This one just works. It's going to be in theaters this Friday, also on HBO Max. will say, and I feel like I'm sounding like a shill, but I really enjoyed this movie, and it's so great to talk about a film that delivers and just like, I can't imagine somebody watching this movie and not having a smile on their face and just enjoying it. But if you have

the opportunity, you should go see this one in the theaters. If you're feeling safe, if you're vaccinated, definitely check it out. I shared this film with my family recently for the second go-around and my little nieces loved it. And yeah, it's something that really resonates with of every family, whether you know the specificity of the heights in New York or not a film well worth checking out. And so happy for John M. Chu, who is really kind of like a born filmmaker. He's been doing it for a while. He's still a young man. But he, you know, he started with the step-up movies and then did like the Justin Bieber doc and then now you see me sequel and now really coming into his own again with back-to-back successes like Crazy Rich Asians and this one.

Plus, he's a big fan of Willow. So that's good enough in my book to be a filmmaker worth paying attention to. So that's the main event on today's show, John M. Chu talking all things in the heights. No big spoilers. This isn't the kind of movie that really has any spoilers anyway. So if you haven't seen it yet, just enjoy hearing a filmmaker, you know, wax poetic about what it was like to helm his first big movie musical. Other stuff to mention, of course, I'm thrilled and excited to say that I'm enjoying. Loki, and I know a lot of you out there probably listen to my stuff with Tom Hiddleston over

the years. I've watched our stuff, and I watched the first two episodes. They're fantastic and weird and fun and silly and thrilling. So very happy for Tom and very happy for all of us that we get to enjoy that. Yes, I spoke to Tom Hittleston very recently, and it's a great chat, and it is coming soon. More on that later, but lest you thought I wasn't going to get to catch up with Mr. Hiddleston, fear not. That one is well worth waiting for. Other things to mention, oh, well, over on the Patreon, of course, patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused.

We have video versions of the podcast, including this one, if you want to watch me in John M. Chu chat, our recent chat with Chelsea Handler is on there, our recent chat with Andrew Garfield. And, of course, game nights. We have just recorded a fantastic game night. I'm not going to announce the guests just yet, but very, very soon, in a couple days, the next game night will be up with a major, major movie star, an Academy Award-winning female actor.

How many more clues do I want to give? I don't know. It's a big one. So there's that. I'm also recording a couple more game nights in the next few weeks, including, and I feel like I'm jinxing it now, but if all goes over into plan, a special in-person edition of Game Night. I have not done an in-person like anything outside of doing the MTV Awards a couple weeks back. So this is going to be a treat. Again, knock on wood, if all goes according to plan, that is going to be a very special episode for the Patreon.

So check it out. Go subscribe, get involved, and an embarrassment of riches away to you on patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Okay. I hope you guys are enjoying the summer. It's a sweaty day in New York, which feels appropriate. given the subject matter of the podcast today, a big, sweaty, fun summer movie in The Heights. Enjoy my conversation with a very talented filmmaker, Mr. John M. Chu. John M. Chu, it's so good to see you, man, especially to talk about this gift you've given the universe.

How you doing, man? I am. I'm just so honestly elated to know that we can show this on the big screen, to see audiences back, to hear them cheer, to see people out, you know, outside asking for autographs from our actors. Like, that's the dream. That's what we wanted for Anthony, as we wanted for Leslie and Melissa and to see that it's actually like healing, to be honest. We're talking on the eve of the opening of Tribeca, the event is going to be just, I can only imagine how this is going to be for an audience. But before we get to all that fun stuff, I just wanted I kind of put some stuff in context because it occurs to me, the last time we had a lengthy chat, you were on the podcast about five years ago. A lot has transpired in five years for all of us, but especially for you, my friend, you've expanded the family. Yeah. You've delivered crazy rich Asians to us. You're now delivering in the Heights. Just give me a sense of like, does it feel like, I mean, you know, you were in a positive space then, but like it was a different space. You were coming off of in quick succession relatively, as I recall, Jim, and now you see me too.

You know, successful films in different ways in different respects, but this is kind of a different order of magnitude. Does it feel like a thousand years have passed since those five years, or give me a sense of sort of way. what it's been like for you. Some days it feels like a thousand years have passed for sure. But other times, in a weird way, it feels like going back to being a kid again in college and thinking like, hey, what do I want to make?

What should I be making? Like those are the questions I asked myself in college. Once I had my short and I got into making studio movies, it was like, oh man, what is this? How do I do this? This is a different thing. And so it took a good 10 years of learning this thing before I could come back to the question of,

okay, now what are you making and why? Yeah, and it seems like the projects, even if they're not literally born of your own story, are getting more and more personal to you. And frankly, you're getting better and better material to work with. You're getting the keys to the Corvette and the Ferrari, and now you're showing what you can do with it. And you're not disappointing anybody.

So congrats and all of it. And I'm getting older. It's true. We get older and with kids, you know, your perspective changes. You know, as an artist, we change and our taste changes. And it's been, and media has been changing. Cinema has been changing. It's technology. All of this stuff, how we have relationships, how we communicate,

who we get to see on a daily basis is changing, how we do interviews is changing. All that better change our filmmaking, a better, you know, a better test what we're putting out into the world. otherwise what are we doing here so you know as i as i mentioned you're about to you've screened this already for audiences i think you got a big event out in l.A just a couple days ago um you're going to have a massive one here in new york uh in the heights of course where you have to do it um talk to me about just over the years is there one screening experience premiere moment that stands out to you as the high watermark that this one's going to have to reach there's been saying i'm really good i mean g i joe with the rock and for

Willis at Man's Chinese was pretty, at the Chinese theater was pretty amazing. Never Say Never with Justin Bieber. I mean, that's like, I feel like BuzzFeed has written articles about that premiere, like how many young celebrities were there and where they are now. I think like the Kardashians and everybody, Selena, all those people, Will Smith. What had happened, it's crazy. That was like, there's 4,000 people there. Four thousand people watching a movie inside, too, in the huge 3D screen. That's a pretty high mark. So have you, for this one, as people that have followed the production of this one, no, given the circumstances, this was essentially a done deal.

This was ready to go a year ago. Wow. It was slated for last summer, right? Yeah, we were on that road. Did I take this year and get in there a little bit? Sure. Okay, that was my question. Yeah.

Is it hard to relinquish control when you know you've got a little buffer? And how much did you tinker with it? Yeah, I definitely got in there. It's a better movie now today than it was a year ago. And partly it was like, let's see how this editing over the internet thing works, Myron, who's our amazing editor, who also did crazy predictions. And we cut it down by a few minutes, I would say. But mostly more than that, there was a pacing thing that we helped, I believe, in it.

And even more than all of that, we got more time in the mix. we were actually two weeks or a week into our mix when when pandemic shut us down so now we got to do add time we just blamed the pandemic and got extra time and this movie the mix is so important every musical i'm surprised all musicals don't have this kind of time um allowed for it because we had discrepancies between um the music team myself sound effects like how what the balance is in a movie like this um and we had to work that out um by the way disclaimer, you might hear my dog bark occasionally. Again, we're talking about the adapting media landscape. For those that don't know it, literally John is half a block away from me

in a box on my screen, and my dog is behind me. So that sums up 2021 right there. Great. Bring a dog over. Yeah, there you go. There you go. So I'm curious, like, this has got to be a hugely emotional saga for you. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, every step of the way making the story. You know, in the last couple of days, I've even seen, you know, like, no less than The Rock and Oprah, you know, testimonials for the film. What has been kind of the emotional high point

in this journey thus far? Is it sort of like, are there different markers along the way? Absolutely. Last night was a pretty high mark, not because of celebrities saying it, but there's a generosity there. These people aren't being paid for this. You can't even buy that. You can't even approach their reps for that.

These are people who've seen the movie who've been moved by it. I don't know, Oprah, but I know Dwayne, and he reached out and recorded this. I don't know Hugh Jackman. He just recorded that. I mean, it means a lot to hear from, and not just them. I have teachers from middle school and friends from high school who've reached out about how excited they are to see this, how it's going to be their first movie. And people who have seen it, who, it's very similar to Crazy Rituations of their, how moved they are. And had I not done Crazy Rituations, I don't think I would have understood it fully, like what it feels like to see yourself up there.

Yeah. But because I experienced that and seeing how people react in a lobby and me, myself, awoke to it when I was watching even my movie back. It was that was an emotionally, I don't know, an open. these brain waves that I didn't know I had and so I can sense that now and it tickles them and I'm so excited for for people to be able to experience it well I mean I have to say I you know with this embarrassment of riches of content in the last year especially this is one of the few movies I I've seen twice and I took the opportunity to share it with my family over last weekend and my extended family and my nieces who were just you know singing the songs and just like dancing as they

watch. So you should, you should, as I'm sure you've heard many experiences like that and you're going to hear many more. So. That's the thing sharing. It's all about like, yeah, we spent a year not sharing. We've spent a year like staying indoors and like presenting on your Instagram or on your, you know, whatever, but like sharing physically, like here's some food. Here's like, here's some music. Oh, how do I, how do I, how do I do I do mom though? Okay, let me show you. Let me show you what my mom used to make. Like that's what I can't wait for the movie to evoke because I know it did in me being in Washington Heights. It's so funny because I listened back to our last conversation and so many of the themes you were talking about that resonated with you like existed in this film. You kept talking

about community and in every respect to your life. This is this isn't your story, but it is your story. I mean, talk to me a little bit about like what your initial pitch was to win or the studio that said you have to be the guy to tell the story. Well, I remember first seeing the, the the show on Broadway, I was directing Step Up to the Streets, my first movie. And one of our salsa choreographers was in the Heights. So he invited me up, went up, watched it, never heard of Lynn Manuel Miranda before my life. And my jaw was on the floor when I saw it, not because of the spectacle of it, but because the songs and the story, and it's a very slice of life. There's no, it's not like a huge plot at all. It was something about, I had,

never been able to communicate what it feels like to grow up in in in my family um i lived on the other side of the of the coast and um in a chinese restaurant by never how it feels to grow up with your aunties and uncles raising you as long as well as your parents to have your boo-boo teach you how to make food and what happens when she passed away and and how that crumbles your family and how you have to rebuild and then the pressures of becoming a storyteller after that of okay what are you going to tell who are you what are you going to bring forward um He did that, Hinn-McKyar did that in an amazing way. And so I knew that that had an imprint on me.

A decade later, I came across my desk from Scott Sanders and Mara Jacobs, our producers. And I felt very compelled. This is before crazy rotation. I was in the same headspace of like, I need to do something that feels very, very true to me and only I can do. And I felt like I had been doing my whole life,

had been training to do this movie in a way of understanding dance and dancers, understanding the language of that dance is a necessity of expression. It's not just performance thing to understand musicals, to understand music, listening to Lynn's lyrics and how he does. It's just I knew that we could bring what it feels like to dream as a little boy in a in a room bigger than the walls of your room. And that's what we've been connected on. The specificity that you capture here is also just, it's so striking.

And I asked, I always ask my listeners for some questions. And this one is the first question I've ever taken from my own mom who watched the movie with me. So from Barbara Horowitz, she wants to know, how did you immerse yourself in Washington Heights culture to so perfectly capture it, spirit, a community that isn't yours. So, I mean, again, you need to honor this specific community. Yes, you understand the broader themes, but it feels so tangible. watching this, the close-ups of the food, the atmosphere within these families. Do you have to kind of take a crash course in like an immersion course in this specific culture to kind of nail it? How did that work? It was just a different process. Like it wasn't me with the answers.

It was me with a basket and say, tell me, tell me why you love this place. Tell me what your dinners are like. Tell me what's your favorite part about your grandmother's cooking. And what are the smells you remember? And everybody contributed. Lynn and Kiar would take me around town. Here's the best cafe Conleche. Here's the best handball game. I'm like, oh, handball, that's a thing here?

Yeah, we love our handball games. Okay, here's the Piedagua guy that we always go to. Here's our bodega guy. Like, they have a relationship with them. And for me, it was about, I'd never been to Singapore before in Crazy Rich Asians. It was really learning that as well, but also going into Washington Heights,

feeling being an outsider really listening accepting and then trying to interpret what's what are the beautiful things that uh that make it tick that that i even are discovering because i could be from the audience perspective like oh i'd never seen that before i've never seen if i asked a question that was a good sign um if i asked a stupid question even better sign because we should let's let's help educate um our audience as well so i just i became a i can't say i became a a part of it because but I but they're very generous and open to me and we every day actors crew members whoever background people had a forum to speak up and the director's the only person who can really prioritize what you're doing in that day so if it was we're prioritizing getting the right sauce

on that table that we would do it and I couldn't do that if it was my first movie I couldn't do it for my third movie but my ninth movie sure well there's also something I think to be said as a quote-unquote outsider in some respects to, to celebrating what's day-to-day, what's routine to others. Because, like, I watch this movie, and part of what I love is, like, you know, seeing a kind of a glamorization of the bodega, of the nail salon, of these, of the community pool, these things that are never kind of, like, shown in this, in this light, in this kind of movie star glow, and you shoot it like you do your actors, like it's just old style Hollywood glamour. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, part of the mission statement in a sense or?

I think so. I mean, the way they described it to me, the, the salons they took me into, the pool they showed me. It felt glamorous to me. When I went there, like, I'd never seen a pool like this. Why, these are huge. You spend your summers in this pool. They're like, yeah, it's great. And I was like, this is insane. And we joked about, oh, we got to do like a Buzzbee Berkeley, Esther Williams number in here. And then we walked away. And then we looked at each other, was like, oh no we have to do it that's not a joke anymore like we said it out loud now it's begging us to do it it's daring us to do it and so we did um and yeah we had a lot of conversations of like how romantic do we want these spaces to feel and we didn't want them to feel romantic we just wanted them to feel how they feel when you are used to it when you're around it all the time and when you're comfortable in those spaces and so it was about in a weird way it's um well i'm not going to do a spoiler, but I'll say, in a weird way, it's when you, like when I would go into my dad's restaurant and I would see it as this playground. Right. And eventually, when you hear

the stories of your parents of how they built it, it becomes way better than a playground. It becomes the story of your family. And I just think that's what I got to experience when I was brought into Washington Heights through Lynn and Kiar and the rest of the community. I have such a huge respect for that community. And I can't wait for the world to have. habit for them too. Can you talk a little bit about just the experience of being on set making this on location. Again, this is I think you said your ninth feature. You know, you clearly are born for this. You love to get in there. But, you know, feeling the responsibility, feeling the responsibility surrounded by the people of this neighborhood, were you able to

kind of enjoy the experience? I mean, again, this is the first time you've been talking about doing a musical since you were a child, like dreaming of this since you were a kid. Was it everything you wanted it to be, everything you dreamt it to be. It was very stressful, no doubt. I like pressure, so I'm okay with that. And I knew I wasn't going to get everything 100% right. So I just tried to be as open as possible. And in a way, Lynn and Kiara were there, they were around.

They were always available for me. Even when I, and we had a very safe forum. safe form that the process was the thing that made it all work that we all agreed to trust each other and we all agreed to build this together um and so yeah when i we went to the community of course this is lynn's neighborhood he still lives there so it's like if you mess it up he can't walk around this neighborhood and i know how sense so the thing that i was more scared about you know the things that none of us would say like something that i just accidentally miss so it was like a constant go back like you can talk about a scene and then you go back and you're like oh but you know whatever

that was a weird thing that we did with the with the chairs wouldn't be like that or like I don't know like oh that's a very like that's not the way we would serve food and you're like well why didn't anyone say anything well we didn't think of it that and then you're like okay well let's how do we fix that so it's say it was like we had to always check ourselves yeah every every step of the way and we wanted to do it right we knew what this opportunity meant more than anything and we knew what we had in our hand. But in the beginning of our first day of shoot, we all got in a circle and we said,

let it all go. Let's just entertain the hell out of people. Entertain them. That's the way to their hearts, through their laughter and through their enjoyment of this. And so that's what we did. Is there anything that you've been dreaming of putting on screen as an aspiring musical filmmaker,

again, for decades that you kind of checked off the bucket list with this one? whether it was that Busby Berkeley pool number or something else. I think it was elevating street style of dancing because I fell in love with it during the step-up movies. I knew very little looking back. I thought I knew a lot. But once I got to know those dancers, the B-boys, the breakers, the paupers, the history of it,

that when they walk into a club, they're judged. But when they start to dance, everyone wants to be around them. When they're on Third Street Promenade and storekeepers are keeping their side eye on them. But when they dance in that middle, people are literally throwing money at them. To me, I've learned, I respect them so much that they're telling their story every time they're beating themselves out there. I've always wanted, and we did it through LXD. We've done it through a lot of the step-up movies, but never to an elevated like, hey, put this in a museum-type spot. And Lynn created this opportunity to speak the language.

language of those. Representation is not just color of your skin or where you're from culture. It's it's the art that you develop. It's in your movement, in your clothing. And so we spent a lot of time making sure that that was part of the conversation too, and it was not left behind.

This is not Broadway style dancing in Washington Heights. I was my biggest, I think my biggest contribution. Me and Chris Scott, who the choreographer, very very close we've worked for a decade together we were like we need to bring authenticity to these streets because we know these people these are our best friends let's get them here and let's tell let's have them tell us what they we need to see and that was my favorite thing that's that's that was a bucket list item that um i'm i'm really glad that that's coming across we've talked a lot about kind of keeping it you know grounded and authenticity which is

integral obviously to this piece at the same time you build and i don't think it spoils anything It's in the trailer, there is at least one sequence as we progress in it between Benny and Nina, where you kind of, you revel in a bit more of kind of the movie musical, what the movie musical can be. Can you talk to me a little bit about that decision? And did that feel like, oh, we're going out on a limb here? Or we've earned this? By this point in the film, we can kind of go there and celebrate that. You know, that was a big risk when we started because we didn't know how the tone. I knew I could feel the tone, but you don't know until. you're building the thing and the movie starts to speak to you. And then you lean into what the movie's telling you what it should be. So there was a certain point where I was like, if we're a shoot and we didn't shoot it to the end.

So I knew if I felt like the movie couldn't handle it, that we could change it. I mean, the studio would be happy not to build that contraption, which is the most expensive thing in this movie. So even though we were committed to it up front, I think behind closed doors, we were always very aware that if it wasn't right, we wouldn't do it. That was for all the musical numbers, by the way. Even showing up on set, we had rehearsed many, many times, but if the actor didn't feel like the character would do that, we would just say, okay, don't do the choreography. I know you spent three months working on it,

but screw it, do what you would do. And we had, we just had tools on our, we had accessible tools at all times for us to be able to use. That took extra work from all the actors, but everyone was down for that. But that thing, yeah, it was very scary. but I knew that in order to earn it, we had to do, you know, for instance, in the beginning, we have the streets are made of music and we add all these little, you know,

the things that we see, the guy with the hose going to the beat, and we added this turntable on the manhole cover. It sort of spins. And that's like the most surreal thing you see for like the first half of the movie. Right. But without it, the surrealness later feels out of nowhere. But with that one little, in the first five minutes of this movie, you're setting the rules for the audience of what this world is.

We have to put that there and make it a joke. We undercut it with a joke with a gum on a shoe to say, hey, we're allowed to go there. We're not going to go there right now, and we're going to make you laugh to forget about it, but just know like that kind of thing exists here. And that gave us a lot of runaway. And then slowly but surely, like when Vanessa is frustrated,

we extend it beyond music and dance. If she wants to run because that's how she feels to be trapped and you're running down the street and she doesn't cry, but instead fabrics come from the buildings as if they're her tears in colors and patterns and you feel the weight of that. And then she runs past us like a 747 flies by us and then we pull out. We're still in her eye and she's in the same spot she started. Like that's what it feels to feel trapped. We gave ourselves permission to go a little bit bigger and to say it's not just dance and performance for you. And until we finally earn, oh, by the way, this whole building can flip on its side and you're going to be okay with it because it's what it feels like to be in love. Between Crazy Rich Asians and this film in Heights, you have kind of helped watch, you're going to have helped launch, you know, six to eight movie stars essentially. Like, it's kind of amazing to think of because, I mean, we already see it from Crazy Rich Asians, whether it's Henry or Constance already had a great career going, but Aquafina, Gemma,

this one you can't watch this movie and not say like oh that's a star that's a star that's like it's just there and part of that is you know in the casting process and identifying talent but also part of it is again I go back to kind of like how you treat your actors and you kind of treat them with a respect a movie star gets before their movie stars in a way do you know what I mean like are you conscious of that like I'm going to give them the movie star moment that they kind of deserve whether the rest of the industry knows it or not I think I had a really huge gift by working with Mark Ruffalo, Michael Cade, Morgan Freeman, Jesse Eisenberg.

I mean, that whole crew really showed me, A, how to work with actors who will take the paintbrush and paint. And then I can do my job on the other side that we can do a duet. And working with dancers are similar, a dancer that you can't write in a script, but because their style is made up for them,

you work and you lean into their strengths. So coming into these movies, I just knew that like, when I saw someone like Henry, he had that natural movie star thing. Like, I've looked for leading men for over a decade then. They are not easy to find. There's something special.

It's a X factor. It's a confidence. It's not trying. It's like, you're not thirsty. They just, they have this presence. And Michael Kane always said, like, at some point I was, directing him. And he's like, I was like, can you get like mad more mad? And he's like,

John, real power doesn't get mad and doesn't move anywhere. They come to him. And that, I don't know why it affected me so much. I was like, you're right. Like you know, you know you have power. So when I work with these actors, I think it's just like, I find people with high, high confidence who know who they are. Even if they're kooky, they have no apologies. If you look anybody in Crazy Rich Asians or in the Heights, the thing that pierces through that screen is confidence, the thing that people are drawn to, especially now when we've had a year of lack of confidence, that their confidence, like, draws you in, and you get powered by it. Daphne, Rubin Vega, who's been a legend and survived a lot, and she's there picking you up off the floor, and she's

going to now pick up the whole fucking world off the floor. Like, you can't have somebody who's playing a part, do that. Right. It's like, that's not, that's not the power. It's not teachable. It's just they have it or they don't, right? And the movie, you get to be two inches from their face to see the bullshit or not see the bullshit, which is even more compelling. There's something, I don't know if it's karma or what, but the fact that you are, you have

this coming out in the same year as West Side Story from Spielberg is interesting in many respects. For those that don't know, I mean, and again, I remember. remember this when I was listening back to our old chat, Steven Spielberg is a huge part of your origin story as well. I mean, he kind of helped discover you way back when, and you told me that like your first conversations were about musicals. Yeah. Is this crazy? Yeah. It's insane. So have you guys cross paths and have you kind of discussed the fact that you're kind of playing in the same sandbox at last? You got through the movie musical slightly sooner than your mentor, Steven Spiel, tricked it. Just by a couple weeks.

Yeah. I saw him at an Apple event and it was great because I don't know if he fully remembered what happened, you know, a decade before. So it was really nice to catch up with him. And, and, and we were texting back and forth sort of as we were going into production. And in fact, he wanted to come to set. It never worked out timing and all that stuff. But, but we were close. We were like within blocks for sure. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm happy that all these Latinx performers get work. I'm happy that there are two movie musicals that are pushing the limits of what musicals can be that are being made right now or being released. I'm so happy that it evokes the debate of why, you know, people who like try to pit Westside Story against in the Heights. Like, why do we pit that against? Why?

because there can't be two Latinx musicals. Now we get to have that conversation, everybody, and you feel it so you know that you have something deep inside that makes it confusing for you. So let's talk about. Let's unpack that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, like, that's a great opportunity

to have this conversation. And I, I think Rachel Ziegler is like, looks amazing. I mean, I haven't seen the movie, but I know how talented she is. And all those dancers, I know a lot of them I know. Some of them even crossed over and came over and did some of our movie on their days off. So it was great. It's all love and more is more. Have you snuck a peek at Lynn's venture into the movie musical? Tick-Tick-Bomb is coming

as well. Yes, I'm excited. You know, Alice Brooks, who shot this movie, he brought on to shoot that movie. And I've worked with Alice since she did my student short film. So I'm just so happy for them. And Myron Kirsten, who cut in the Heights is on Tick-Tick-Bum right now. And it's all i'm just so excited that they're doing it i i have seen glimpses let me put it that way how close have you come over the years to doing a movie musical before this i mean i remember way way back when by by birdie was like almost launched your career right yeah there were like articles i was looking back at articles about being the new musical guy back then when i was attached to bye by bird because it was pay or play and they would look i mean who i don't know what was happening back then i was 22 years old

And I had an original musical called Moxie over at DreamWorks that he sold to Stephen and Dan Jinks was good and Bruce Cohen were producing and that sort of fell apart. What other? I think those are the two true musicals, musicals that I've been attached to. I've been attached to a lot. And now you are more than attached. It sounds like is wicked essentially a Go project? I mean, is that going to happen next? I, um, we're working on that right now. So I'm not the person who who greenlights that. However, there's huge motivation, of course. And I'm very excited about it. And I think we have some really good tricks up our sleeves for that one. What resonates with you about that story? Can you give me a little taste

of what drew you into Wicked when you first saw it and while you're excited to commit to the next two years potentially of your life to this one? Well, who wouldn't want to go back to Oz, this innocent land that we all fell in love with when we fall in love with movies. Who would want to go back and reexamine what Oz actually is and that innocence for a country and a world that's waking up? And change is hard. And change is not storybook. And change requires struggle and anger and sometimes being wicked, sometimes forgiving each other. And I think that's a beautiful message that needs to be told right now. And obviously, I'm a huge fan of the musical itself.

Stephen and Winnie are incredible and incredible creative partners, as well as Mark Platt. So I'm excited to, I'm excited to support the idea that, well, one, these two, to women and their relationship is just so real and so messy and so great. And I love exploring that. But also for the world to say, yeah, change is hard, but the only way out is through. Have you met with actors? Some have already kind of thrown their names out there. Interviews of people saying they sent me stuff.

No, I'm ignoring all of that right now. I got to get this script in shape and my take in shape. and then we'll go from there. Well, it's good to know that, you know, the likes of Amanda Seifred and Anna Kendrick are like ready and willing if you're interested. Very guy. It's very nice. I'm kind of surprised, frankly,

that like given how successful you've been and kind of like the different kinds of genres you've done, that in this age where every director of note does a Marvel or DC or Star Wars film or has their name attached to one, that you have not had your name attached to one. Have we just missed it in the trades? Have you come close to doing one of those projects?

Or are you not interested or what's going on? I am, I don't know, I'm just in my own world right now. There's things that I've been, I've been busy doing. You've had those, you had to at least talk to these folks. It just hasn't happened in the right way and the right project yet. Is that taking away? No, I mean, I think I've been, I think I literally when I did crazy rich Asians, I already had my next movie.

So I didn't need to entertain anything. I was actually a blessing. I just was like, I have my next movie. I'm going. And so we'll see. What is the, can you boil down to holdup on the crazy rich Asians sequel? I mean, you're obviously busy. All your actors are busy.

Is it a matter of that or is it getting the next script right? It's a matter of me wanting the script to be right. I'm not going to drag everybody back, especially now if it's not better and we have something that's new to say. And I think we are on the trail. and I think we have some great pillars. And so we'll see where that goes. That's the same thing.

It's really honestly me, making sure that it's good because they're going to look to me and be like, don't mess this up, John. As Lynn wrote on my script for it in the Heights, don't F it up. Is that what he wrote? It says a reminder. He had a smiley face on it. Well, of course, Lynn, that's what he does.

As you know, I'm a fan of yours, and as I think you might remember as well, I'm a huge fan. Always been kind to me. Oh, no, please, sir. I am crushed in one respect that Willow didn't happen. And I know it was for a good reason. You've got a lot going on in your family. But I didn't even realize when I had heard this news that you were going to do Willow, how close, how important Willow is to you.

One of your children is literally named, is it. She is named Willow. Yes. Yes, my wife refuses to believe that that's why her name is that, though. Is there a factor? Is that a part of the algorithm or no? Was she named in part because of your love of Willow? Oh, yeah, for sure.

For sure. She doesn't want to hear it, but it's true. I, yeah, and I was, we had a great time. I mean, the script is great. I mean, what John Casson is creating and that, and Lucas, it's great. It's what we need now. And I was excited to be, we were designing. We were like in it, we were casting.

And the reality was COVID. Like COVID just didn't get better. It was getting worse. And I had the family that for a year, I was so glad I was there for it. And now she was, my wife was pregnant again with another child and the dates just kept pushing. And now I mean, literally if I had stayed,

I would have had to quit now. because it got pushed so far that my baby's going to be born any day. So I'm really glad I did it back then, but it was very, very difficult. I thought Kathy Kennedy was going to kill me. But she could not have been kinder. Like, honestly, she was like amazing. Amazing person to talk to about this stuff. Well, congratulations on, again, the new addition coming to your family.

I assume if it's a boy, it's Mad Mardigan. If it's a girl, it's Bab Morda. Yeah. Yeah, either way, have, come now. Is that, because I've actually been talking to folks in the last year about their comfort movies. Would Willow be considered one of your comfort movies? Can we just revel in our love of Willow for a second? What did you love about that film when you were growing up?

I think it was the idea that anyone could have magic. The idea that you did not have to look like Batman. And they're kooky. And it was that, like, Mad Mardigan had that swagger. He almost looked like, didn't we want to be in a movie. It's like air in this fantasy, and they're making jokes of it. And you were down. It was like speaking to a kid.

I love that. And Ron Howard has such a purity to his heart that I just felt like the idea that pure good still exists and it's what we're fighting for. To me, like, that always, those stories always hold close to me. And if you can have humor about it and not be over-sentimental, I'm in. It sounds like you have a pretty full docket coming up, potentially with Wicked and potentially of Crazy Roachens. The sequel comes around.

But is there, you've been attached to a lot of things over the years. Is there a script that's got in a way that you could see yourself coming back around to with your newfound juice, John M. Chu, ruling Hollywood as you do now? Is that what this is? I like it. I'm anointing you, the King of Hollywood. Congratulations. No.

I mean, I'm developing a lot of really interesting stuff. Yeah. And every time I finish a movie, I'm a different person. And this world is a different place. And so I'll be compelled to where we're at and what makes me curious. So I've always, I fell in love with movies not because I loved watching movies, although it was a huge part of growing up. I fell in love movie because I love making it.

I love not knowing. I love gathering my friends, forcing them to be in it. If they didn't want to be, I love figuring out where am I going to be. I love figuring out where am I going to get these lights. How am I going to tell us? I love watching people watch it and be moved and feel like, oh, this is the same way the dancers go on the promenade and dance and people would pay attention.

Like, that was the only way people would hear me and I was down. And so in a way now, making stuff is just like, it's like a shark swimming through water. I just need to like, keep moving. Do they need to swim through water to breathe? They got to keep moving. Yeah, you got to keep moving. Yeah, yeah.

I feel like that's what I have to do. So whatever, feels right, it will fill my belly during that moment. That's what I'll do. Excellent. Well, I'm so thrilled to catch up with you at this, this exciting moment. I know it seems like it's been a long journey, but in some ways, the journey is now like just getting started because you're now delivering this baby, this other baby, to the world. And, you know, as you can tell, it's already resonating with the early audiences. And, you know, for those listening and watching us, if you have the opportunity to go out

and see this in a theater, this is a true audience movie. and you're going to have a blast this summer. And congratulations, John. I look forward to catching up with you again soon. Thanks, Josh. Welcome back to the movies. Let's go. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives.

Yeah, like, Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite that. We come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where you talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone.

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