Happy Sad Confused - Jonathan Groff

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

He's just coming off a Tony win and he just might be in line for another! Jonathan Groff takes center stage on this episode to talk about playing Bobby Darin in JUST IN TIME, how SPRING AWAKENING changed his life, why he was so well suited for MINDHUNTER, and what he considers the best movie musicals of all time! UPCOMING EVENTS 28 YEARS LATER Q&A with Jodie Comer, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, & Danny Boyle 6/1 in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠tickets here⁠⁠⁠ Gary Oldman in LA 6/3 -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey guys, I'm Josh, and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I have a special treat for you guys today. If you love theater, if you love Mind Hunter, if you love Frozen, this is the guy for you. Mr. Jonathan Groff is my guest today, a charming, delightful man talking about his latest triumph on Broadway playing Bobby Darren in Just in Time. He is Tony nominated.

He is amazing in it. This conversation is a blast. That's coming at you today on. happy, sad, confused. Before we get to that, a couple announcements, updates, things that I've been doing that I wanted to mention. Speaking of theater, this is just like a fun thing to mention. You know, a lot of people are attracted to the big Broadway shows, and I see a lot of

them, including Justin Time with Jonathan Groff. I recently got a chance to see this really cool set of two different one-act plays. That is at the Manetta Lane Theater. This is downtown in New York. This is a small theater. by New York standards, and it's a really cool collaboration that Hugh Jackman is doing with Audible and this theater, bringing these kind of smaller-scale productions to the masses with big stars, great playwrights, and at somewhat more, I think, affordable prices.

They're tough tickets to get, but if you can get them, I've seen both of these plays. Right now, Hugh Jackman is on stage with Ella Beatty, Beatty. Yeah, well, Beatty. She's Annette Benning and Warren Beatty's daughter, actually, and she's amazing in this. I've never seen her act before. This is a two-hander, and it's called Sexual Misconduct of the Middle Classes. It's really compelling stuff. Also got a chance to see Justice Smith and Leap Schreiber in a play called The Creditors and Maggie Siff, I think it's the third actor in that one.

Anyway, these are both excellent productions. Just want to mention it. If you're looking for something off the beaten path, that's not Broadway, but it's still amazing theater. these are great productions and I love what Hugh Jackman is doing kind of giving back a little bit to the theater community. He does obviously such big scale

movies and even he's playing Radio City which is an amazing show. His kind of like song and dance routine but to see him go back to a lot of basics with this is really cool. Anyway, wanted to mention that if you're looking for something cool to try to see in New York.

Speaking cool stuff in New York, we're just a few days away now about a week or so away from our June 1st live event with Jody Comer, Aaron Taylor Johnson, and director Danny Boyle talking about 28 years later. So excited for this one, this movie, I'm seeing very soon, I'm hearing good things. It looks amazing. We're going to show some sneak peeks and have a great conversation.

The link for tickets is in the show notes. June 1st, I believe it at 7 p.m. at 92nd Street Y. And then I've been mentioning it. I'm going to keep mentioning until the day comes. June 3rd, Los Angeles. Come on out, guys. there aren't some tickets still available for this but I want to get as near a sellout as possible

I want to pack that house because Gary Oldman is hitting the stage with me and it doesn't get any better than that truly one of the great actors of our time of the last 30 years or so that he's been doing it on the big screen and on the small screen now in slow horses that's going to be a blast June 3rd come on out

it's going to be a special night okay let's get back to Jonathan Groff Main event today, a little bit of context. Again, he's playing Bobby Darren, this famous crooner of the 60s and 70s. The role is perfect for him in many respects because he can sing and dance and be charismatic. And Jonathan Groff is all of those things. He won the Tony last year for Merrily we roll along. And he very well could win the Tony again, which is kind of unprecedented to win it back to back.

This conversation is very much about his theater work, spring, awakening, but also we talk, of course, a little Fincher, Mind Hunter, and all his other, you know, fantastic aspects of his career. He is one of the gems of a human being you will ever hear or see from. And the last bit of context I want to say for this one, and we talk about it during the course of the conversation is when I went to see Justin Time on Broadway, he pulled me up out of the audience and made me dance, made me. I would never voluntarily do this. I do not dance. folks. So we dissect that crazy moment in my life. And this could happen to you. If you see the show,

he does pull up folks a couple different times during the show. It just so happened. It was my time to do it. And I'm here to tell the tale, as is Jonathan in this conversation. I hope you guys dig this. Some really cool stuff coming up on Happy Sagan Fuse, including a very special Mission Impossible conversation next week. Stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, enjoy this one with Jonathan Groff. No official introduction, but finally, officially solo on the podcast, Jonathan Groff. We've had you in groupings, but I wanted you all to myself finally. It's good to see you.

How are you? Good. It feels good to be one-on-one with you, Josh. I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing very well. We're talking your latest triumph just in time on Broadway, Bobby Darren, killing it, singing, dancing, pulling up innocent bystanders on stage sometimes.

We will get to that in a moment. But first of all, a warning to those watching and listening drinking game every time Jonathan Groff cries do a shot. So be prepared. Oh, my God. I think I'm going to, I'm feeling so joyful these days. I don't know if I'm going to get anyone's going to be taking a shot. Good. One thing I do remember, look, you were on the podcast as part of the amazing trio for Merrily on the stage at 9 Second Street.

why it was one of my favorite live events I've ever done there and emotions were very palpable that day um was that unusual for you i feel like you have very good access to your emotions but that day in particular felt like given the experience the run it all kind of bubbled up yes i i am a cryer like i do i do cry kind of easily and there was something about i really remember that event at the why it was so cool and there was something about the the reflective nature of that show and sharing that experience with Dan and Lindsay that was really extremely emotional it was like it was it was a combination of building a relationship between the three of us that ended up becoming really tight and deep And then also, like, every night, the introspection that would happen from doing that show was really epic.

Was leaving that show behind, like, tough? I mean, are you good at leaving a job behind? Because you guys were so tight. I mean, I can't imagine. Is there a period of morning? Like, are you guys still in touch? Like, give me a sense of how you kind of recover from that kind of experience. I really thought, like, and Dan and Lindsay thought, too.

that I was going to be on the floor when we left that show. I loved doing it so much. I loved and love them so much. And I really thought, okay, when I have to be careful because I think I'm going to really fall into a big postpartum, like depression in leaving the show and didn't at all. This was the big shock.

Emotional maturity. Look at you. You're 40 now. You got it all in check. Yes. And maybe it was because we cried so much during the show. It's like we got it all out. We excavated all of it.

But Dan and Lindsay felt the same way. We left and we were like, oh, my God. It felt like the exact right time, the perfect timing for it to be over. Such a full experience, such a happy experience. We left before the honeymoon was over. Yeah. And then I was out of the show for two weeks. And then I went right into the, I went right into the,

I went right into the workshop for, which we did for like about a month, I think, or five weeks or something or six weeks. I don't know. We did a big workshop for just in time in July and August immediately following that. So then I was right back into this one. So this is another intense one. And for those that don't know, the history behind this actually connects to 9 Second Street Y, which is really cool.

And like this is long in the making. I would imagine, I mean, look, you've workshop shows before you've been from the inception. But this one in particular, you've been on for what, like seven? seven, eight years in different incubative processes. And it's so your show front and center, obviously, you break the fourth wall. Like, it's just going to be a sense. Like, do you feel, I mean, you feel obviously a passion for all the work. But like, does this one, I don't know, have a more personal connection given what you've poured into it?

Completely. I've never, I've never been a part of something from the very beginning of the idea before. And it was eight years ago that Ted Chapin asked me to do this concert at the 92nd Street. why what's crazy josh is i remember being in the car on the way to our interview that we did with you it was i was in the car with jennie t who's my dear friend and we and she i worked with her as a publicist and i said jennie t this is so crazy i just found out today that the bobby that they want to do they're looking to do the bobby derr musical next year on broadway like in the next season. And Jenny T. was like, what? And I said, I know it's kind of crazy and it's really

fast. But we're literally in route right now to the 92nd Street wide to do this interview with Josh. This is feeling like a shared sign from the universe that we've got fate on our side and it's meant to be. But yeah, this like, and I hadn't been on that stage since seven years, seven and a half years ago when we did the concert there in January of 2018. And so until we did our interview, so it's very, it's very Josh Horowitz, you know, there's like, you're in soup of this somehow in a way. But yeah, like, it was seven and a half years ago we did the workshop. I mean, I like, I remember writing Alex Timbers, our director, who directed the concert at the Y too. I brought him an email the day after we finished. And I said, I am like a drug addict. And that was the most exciting thing ever. And I, we have got to make this show. show happened, what do we need to do? And I flew out to Australia because there was like a musical called Dream Lover about Bobby Darren that was happening there and they were looking to move that to

Broadway. But we had this really specific conceit that we had talked about of me starting the show as me and setting the musical of his life in the context of a nightclub and telling it is kind of like a nightclub act because that was Bobby Darren at the height of his powers. And so it's been, I mean, I've been in like the fall of 2018, I flew to Malibu on a week, on our week layoff from Mind Hunter to go meet Dodd Darren, the son of Bobby Darren, and like beg him to bless our show and give us the rights. And then Tom Curti, our producer, ended up getting the rights. And in like February of 2020, and I was like taking drum lessons while I was working on the Matrix. I just, it's been, it's been like, the constant throughout. Yeah.

Long gestating. So to finally be doing it on Broadway is like, is, is quite literally a dream come true. A dream from like the back of my brain to then be doing it on Broadway. I've never experienced anything like that. It's so cool. We should say the show is nominated for six Tonys. You're nominated, of course, coming off of your Tony win last year. This is like Tom Hanks, Farris Gump, Philadelphia territory, back to back. We're doing it all over again. Running it back. It's an amazing performance. You own. own the stage as you always do. And it's so suits you, plays to your strengths. You, it's, it's really a treat to see someone. I mean, I saw your like Nicole Scherzinger interview. It's like in a similar way. That is like an amazing. I mean, as you know, that performance, unbelievable in a similar way. You, you own this one. And I don't know to talk to me a little bit about what it's like to like inhabit Bobby, who for those that don't know, I mean, everyone probably knows Bobby down to a degree, Dream Lover, Mac the Knife, some songs.

Maybe they know that his life ended far too prematurely. I don't talk to me about like what the joy of inhabiting him night after night. This is a joyful show despite the fact that his life ended prematurely. It's like I feel like I'm going to cry. I'm just asking me that. So I'm now realizing that maybe me crying is actually it's you asking questions that makes you. I'm the trigger. I'm the problem.

That's such a, that's such a, that's such a like normal question to ask. Why is that making me emotional? Timber of my voice. I'm sorry. I think it's you. What is it like? I think it's making me emotional too because it's like the gift of a lifetime. He was this supernova talent.

Dead at 37. Died young, was told he was going to when he was eight overheard that he was going to be dead by the time he was 16. So he was living always on borrowed time. And when I began researching him eight years ago and I started looking at, clips of him, looking at clips of him on YouTube, I was immediately sucked in by his completely

unique, kind of ferocious, primal way of performing. He's not just singing songs. He's not just like coming out there and like giving you the hits and walking away. He is like singing for his life every time he performs, partially because his health was always something he was negotiating. and I think also partially because he just loved, he just lived to perform. And I, we have a lot of dissonance in our, you know, he's from the Bronx. I'm from Amish country, Pennsylvania.

We address this in the show. There's a lot of things about us that are quite different, but this very essential thing of this, this like need to perform and this like kind of like extremely passionate, almost spiritual relationship. between performer and audience member, I really identify with him in. And so to be able to like spend these last few years dissecting his performances and understanding his physicality and trying to understand his musicality.

And I learned how to play the piano for this and I learned how to play the drums for this. And I took 10 weeks of dance lessons before our first day of rehearsal to try to really embody how he moved and what he did. and he was like, you know, I'm obsessed with watching, I've always been obsessed with watching clips of like Barberst Trisand and Liza Minnelly and Judy Garland and in a more modern way, Beyonce. I, like, there's a lot of these like female diva performers that have this quality that I'm obsessed with as a homosexual.

It's part of the requirements of being one. And Bobby Darren, Bobby Darren, like, is one of the few male performers that gives me that same hit and that same. rush and so to to like embody his musicality and his movements is like it feels it feels fucking incredible it's like the show starts and i'm out there for two and two hours and 30 minutes so haley who the woman who's dressing me just told me last week that the longest time offstage is 45 seconds and so same no feels like it's five minutes long to me i love doing it so much do you so we talk about how he died tragically, 37, kind of sickly to agree his entire life.

I mean, you've accomplished so much. You just turned 40. You have Tony. You have all these awards. You have the accolades. You had a lot of success early on on stage. Like, do you feel the ticking clock? Do you, like, judge yourself against time, your age?

Are you that kind of person? Funny, I don't think about that. I'm not, I'm not. And it's obviously the different, you know, generically for generally, I should say, for men that it is for women and the expectations and aging and all of that. But I, I like, for better or for worse, because it goes both ways, like, I'm so right in the here and now. And the, the, the speed with which this project has come on the back of Merrily, this, like, because we did a workshop of this in March of last year while I was doing. merrily we roll along and i was like waking up and vomiting in the morning before the workshop i

got like it was my body was so tired for doing the eight shows a week and then we were doing this workshop and i was really like oh god i i couldn't because this show has been so many years in the making i'm doing this but i i would not be able to push myself i don't think for anything else other than this there's something about the so so i guess i i do feel the ticking clock and the kind of ferocity as channeled by him, like getting the chance to play him and getting the chance to develop the show, it's given me this, this like on-ramp to that kind of like front-footed aggression, which is not necessarily where I live as a person normally. In the last, like, certainly in the last year and in the years in developing this, that that

time is running out energy has been cultivated in me just simply by working on the show and by playing him every night. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you as a track side. So being

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So, as I said, I got a chance to see the show the other night, just in time on Broadway. It's amazing. You're amazing. You're singing and dancing throughout. And I just want to talk about this openly and confront you about this because this is a moment. Just another night for you, but a traumatic moment in the best possible way for me forever, Jonathan. opening moments you're singing and dancing through the aisles i presume you usually look for a person to kind of gift with a moment of a lifetime and dance with them you lock eyes with me give me your perspective what did you know i was there did you just happen to see me oh i rarely know who is there and i so there's like like you mentioned the opening bobby darren was

famous for interacting with audience members live in the moment so many stories of people saying Bobby Daron, my mom was there when she was 11 and he danced with my mom. My mom was in a blue dress and he kneeled down to her and said, this was his special magic, was in the moment interaction with the audience. You can hear it on a lot of his live records. And so we wanted to bake this into the conceit of the show and into the moments of the show. And so there are set moments where I go into the audience and dance with people. And there's even, if you can believe it, Josh, set seats that I interact with people. Did I just happen to be in the walkie seat?

You happened to be in the dance seat, Josh. And I did not know that you were at the show. And I was walking through the audience as I do every night and making, I got it. And then I could not believe that you were sitting there. And I'll tell you my experience was like, I was like, oh my God, fucking Josh in the dance seat, what the fuck? And I held out my hand to you and you looked like you wanted to die. That was your first, you were like, oh my God, this was what was so amazing, at least from

my perspective about what had happened. You looked at me like, I cannot fucking believe this, you're asking me to do this. And I rather the whole, like a whole open up below my seat and fall into the depths of hell than stand and that's right now. But then about point, like, like point five seconds later, you took a breath and you took my hand and put down my drink, put down my alcohol. Thank God I had a drink. And you and you spun around with such grace and confidence and charm and effortlessness. And there was absolutely nothing awkward about, you were like, Oh, no. All right. Here we go. And you, and you wrote the, I would say you rose to the challenge so

elegantly. That means the world to me. How much so that I was like, I think maybe he liked that when you sat back down. I was like, I think maybe Josh enjoyed that. I did feel, here my perspective is you had it totally down, first of all. Yes. I wanted to die. I, in fact, said to you in the moment, as you, as you beckoned me to come up, I said I hate you. And I apologize for that. And then I tried to rise to the occasion. I got through it. I thought I had a stroke and a heart attack at the same time.

My wife saw me, like, dying in my seat. But it was a beautiful moment. I will never forget. It was amazing. And the second added bonus was, I will say, and I know this is self-indulgent to talk about this, but hopefully it gives folks a sense of what the show's like. Was Holt was in the crowd. Holt McAulaney, your co-star from My Hunter, who I went over to say hi to in the intermission.

And he was very kind to use. He said to me, he's like, you did great. Do you have a dance background? I'm like, hold. Holds, come on. That is so fucking funny. It was amazing. He was like, Josh, Josh wanted me to tell you that he loved the show and that,

and that he, you know, he had to go home, but like, he would have come back and he's not coming back because he didn't enjoy the show, but then he'll talk to you later. And that he really did enjoy the dance. So the guy was like, well, I wasn't planning on coming backstage. I didn't know. I never know when to do that or not. So I should have, in retrospect, but thank you for that moment that I will never forget. Oh, my God.

Thank you for being such a champ and such a sport. And you're always welcome backstage whenever you want to come back. Whether you're at the show or not. Okay, fair enough. So speaking of Holtz, I mean, that must be a tree. You get all these fun visitors. So Holtz come by. Has Fincher come by yet?

I'd love to see David Fincher at a Bobby Dyer musical. He hasn't been there yet, but I imagine that he will be. He came to see Marely We Roll along. And he came. So Holt, we did this, that concert at the 92nd Street Y, seven and a half years ago between shooting season one and season two of mine. So he knows, yeah. The Holt came to the 92nd Street Y with Fincher and Cion.

They all, so if you can, like, like, the idea of Fincher at the Bobby Dare musical on Broadway, if that's surreal to you, then take it a step further and imagine Fincher and Cion at the 90 Second Street why seeing like the bobby darren songbook sung i mean that he really is such as he's such a sweet supporter so i imagine that you know next time he's here hopefully he'll he'll come by i'm obsessed with him he he he's he's the ultimate bucket list podcast guest i've interviewed him over the years but he's he's he's he's reticent to do the full podcast experience one of these days though i'll wear him down um should i should i should i give up in your mind have you given up hope it seems like mine hunter beautiful two seasons but we're not we're never going to get more is that in your

mind or do you keep an open mind i have no idea i have no idea i haven't heard anything i haven't heard anything have you guys ever come close like was there ever a talk like did you feel like there was a momentum for a season three or a wrap-up movie or something that you felt like oh there's a tangible actual potential plan no no one ever talks me about it yeah there's like there's like i even have that mind hunter joke at the top of the show that we say which was always like holds now been like four times to the show, which is... I was wondering if that was specifically for Holt. You know, that's in the show every night.

That's in the show every night, yeah. And he just happened to be sitting at a table that night, so I got to point to him in reference. But yeah, I haven't heard anything about 9-Hunter season three. Did the discipline of theater help you in that experience? I mean, the stories of Fincher, obviously, are well-known. The takes and the meticulous nature of it. Did the repetition of theater,

the training. Did that serve you well? Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's funny, our amazing choreographer, Shannon Lewis of Just in Time, her husband is Mark Kudish, who played the Tickle Principle in the first season of Mind Hunter. And he's also an epic, like, Titan of the New York theater. And he, when we were on the set, we were we were talking about how like in some ways the the multiple takes and the repetition feels more comfortable to me that like fincher's process feels more like home to me than a usual a usual like two and done like wait we're not going to keep doing this like yeah whereas because I'm so used to theater like doing it multiple times is makes me feel more relaxed like we're like

we're really getting to dive in and to dig in and oh my gosh yeah like that especially getting to do those long interview scenes um where we was like 10 page scenes and it really felt like a play getting to play those long scenes from beginning to end 10 pages like what a what a um what a treat so if you'll indulge me going back since we've never done the solo pod before the going back um I loved listening to your Tony's speech last year and talking about your parents and letting your freak fly as a kid. And I've actually spent a lot of time around where you grew up. My wife's parents lived in Nottingham, Pennsylvania, in Amish country right around there. So give me a sense like, I don't know, kid Jonathan Groff loving musical theater, loving, loving theater, loving film TV, presumably.

what did your parents make of you? How quickly did they kind of like emboldened you to kind of follow that path? From the very beginning, my dad trains and race, my dad was supposed to take over the dairy farm. He was the oldest son in a Mennonite family and they had cows and he was supposed to do that. But his passion was horses. So he sort of like took a left turn and started his own business as a horse trainer. My mom's passion was coaching and field hockey, so she studied to be a teacher, but really the point was, she ended up being a phys ed teacher, but the point for her was coaching girls' field hockey.

And so they both really understood just like the, and I said something like this in the speech, but like they understood like passion, the importance of following passion. So even though they didn't have any experience whatsoever in theater or singing or any of that, I expressed from a very young age my interest in that. And they were beautifully driving me to play practice and all of it and community theater stuff. They were totally supportive of that from the beginning. And then when I was getting ready to go to college, they were like, please do not go to college. and have us help you pay thousands of dollars for a theater degree.

They were like, why don't you go to New York first and see if you can make it? And as an actor, because you don't have to have a college degree to be an actor. So why don't you go to New York and see how that goes? And if it doesn't work out, then you can go back to college for something else. So they were really supportive of me in pursuing my, moving to New York, which I did when I was 19 years old. So, yeah, so you moved to New York a little over 20 years ago, no looking back ever since.

And it wasn't quite the Broadway debut. Oh, again, what's happening? No, we're okay, we're okay. Calm down, everybody, calm down. Do we think the crying is connected to the spitting? Is it all about, like, the water? Like, is it just water wants to escape your body? Yes, I'm just really full of juice.

Waiting to come out. Oh, my God. We don't have time to dive deep into everything, but I do want to mention, obviously, spring awakening, which is obviously such a seminal, important part of your life and career, and for a number of reasons, I know. Look, it's the show.

It's the friendships. It's where you were at your life. It's coming out around that time. I mean, when you look back at that, is it all kind of, like, baked in together? Like, this was maybe the formative pivot point in my life and career? It totally was for all the reasons that you mentioned. It was like, like artistically, I, I, because that, that show is such a work of art and being able to do that show eight times a week.

And this is like, there's something that can change you on a cellular level as, because they, I forget who said this, or, but we are what we repeatedly do. And getting the chance to perform something really profound, like changed my taste from the inside out and made me a better actor from the inside out. And so artistically, when I left that experience, I had a completely different, like, knows for what I was looking for next than when I started that job. It just completely changed my appetite for what I was looking to do. do and how I was wanting to grow and how I was wanting to keep evolving. It was really incredible in that way. And then I was playing this character that didn't let the world define him and who was a rebel and who stood up for what he believed in and was really outspoken and really front-footed. And I was really the opposite of that in my life. I was

a people pleaser and I was in the closet and I was kind of shy in declaring who I was and what I wanted if in any way it would create dissonance externally. And when I left that show, it was like I had worked on this muscle of speaking my mind. And a month after I left that show, I came out of the closet. And I really, I really feel like it was, it was in large part because that side of myself that I wasn't in touch with got awakened, so to speak, in getting, to play Melchior. And when I got spit out the other end of the show, I had this, I had this side of myself that I then could put into my real life. It also gives birth to a lifelong

friendship. You know, the internet, the world loves you and Leah Michelle. Like, there are a few friendships, the world loves more. Oh, that's so sweet. I mean, yeah, like we're, we're trying to figure out how in December, because we met at the audition in 2005, we're trying to figure out how we're going to celebrate 20 years of knowing each other starting this December. She came to the, she came to opening night of Justin Time. And then she came back a week and a half later on a Sunday matinee with her four-year-old son ever. And they sat on an aisle.

So I could like into kind of, it was on the opposite aisle from where you were sitting. The aisle, like, careful. Careful, Leah. I mean, she's ready. She's in that aisle. But I like, I interact with people in that aisle. And so I got to like high five ever during dream.

and she was, and he was on the edge of his seat. He was so cute the whole time. And that, talk about crying. We, like, finished the show, and I was in the elevator, about to come out for, like, the bow music that we perform at the end. And I just started hysterically crying because I just was like, oh, my God, what a special thing. He's four.

He's going to remember this now for the rest of his life, this moment. And this history that I have with his mom. And now there's this little boy in the world. And now we're creating memories. and it's just so cool. It's so cool to share that with people that you come up with by the time you're 40. You've shared a lot of life 20 years. You guys must, though, talk about professionally collaborating.

There must be a dream project or two to do on stage or elsewhere. What do you guys want to do? I have an idea. Well, I've been sending her plays for a while, and we constantly are talking about it, trying to find what the right thing is to come back together. And I have an idea for, Like, I would say, late summer, early fall, 2026, because I also want to mark, because 2006 is when we were performing spring awakening.

And I want to mark with her 20 years of working together, too. So I have an idea that I just talked about with her, like, in the last month. And she was like, oh, yeah, let's try to do that. So, okay, I know you're not going to say what it is. But give me a hint. Is this a two-person thing? It's musical. It's something we know.

No, what is it? It's like, I don't want to, at this point, it's just a dream of something. I don't know, YouTube attached is probably more than a dream. I think your name's attached to a theatrical production is probably going to get it greenlit. It really is a dream. I've started to reach out to the people that I need to reach out to, but, yeah, I don't want to fuck it up. Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Oh, this is it, the day you finally ask for that big promotion.

You're in front of your mirror with your Starbucks coffee. Be confident. Assertive. Remember eye contact. But also, remember to blink. Smile, but not too much. That's weird. What if you aren't any good at your job? What if they dim out you instead? Okay, don't be silly.

You're smart. You're driven. You're going to be late if you keep talking to the mirror. This promotion is yours. Go get them. Starbucks. It's never just coffee. Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best? You are. I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish.

I'm fascinated by kind of like, so there's the, obviously, the amazing theater work. There's TV Mind Hunter. Then there's the film work. And you've been very deliberate, I feel like, whether purposely or not, and kind of filmmakers you've worked with, whether it's, you know, working on the Matrix or with Chamelon. You've had these nice, like, choice kind of plumb, smaller kind of opportunities in film while the theater career is insane.

I don't know. Do you feel like you have to fight more for opportunity in film? Like, does that, is there kind of like a distance, a dissonance between your stature and theater and what you want to do in film and where does that sit with you right now when i came out of the closet publicly in 2009 i really thought i was saying goodbye to anything in film and television i really was like i guess that that'll be the end of that and i'm okay with that because i'd rather be who i am than hide who i am to be in movies right so everything that's come since then uh starting

really with like looking on HBO and and then the things that you mentioned and and really like David Fincher changed my whole career by casting me as Holden and in Mind Hunter that was a huge never could have ever imagined that that something like an opportunity like that when playing a straight FBI agent interviewing serial killers that that would ever happen um and so yeah like everything that that has come in film has felt like a like a fun bonus. I haven't like I have I've been able to kind of now because of the wave of progress um that has happened in since 2009 in regards to um LGBTQ acceptance and evolution and gay marriage and all of that and the cultural shift like I've been able to do film and television in a way that I never anticipate.

And I, you know, I really feel like the film, especially, is a director's medium more than an actor's medium. In that, like, when I get to, when I show up at the theater, I perform the show from start to finish. And there's a real kind of, like, primal, basic kind of, like, actor audience. relationship that happens and we're in essentially we're in charge of our edit we're in charge of the piece once those lights go up once the curtains up you're the you're in charge of that show no there's no one stepping in and i love that and so i so i like i i've really enjoyed the tv and film work i've done because i i really love working with directors that are like geniuses that are like since it is a director's medium getting to work with like fincher or

Andrew Hague or Knight or Lana like the or Ang Lee was the director of you ever do like being able to feel safe to play and stretch and try things because I know at the end of the day these these directors are the smartest people in the room and they're going to put together something that that is in line with their incredibly specific vision that's been really joyful and I it's funny like they were like I looked at my window in my apartment the other day and there was a hair and makeup trailer there

and I was like oh because the thing I think of is like the waiting the holy mornings yeah the waiting the like the all of the Mishagas that has to happen before the acting on a film set is like

the time between action and cut is so brief the actual acting most of the hours are not acting. So just as an actor, I feel more used in the theater. But I wrote my,

I'm developing some projects with this amazing director, Aeton Fox, and we had a call this morning. And I wrote him a tag, I sent him a voice note actually talking about that makeup trailer thing. And I was like,

Eton, I am ready to fall in love again with making movies. and I'm ready to follow again with being on a set and release this notion that it has to be that it's an uncomfortable experience as an actor. But even like the thing of people coming up in like as wet in between each take, just like in theater,

I can just, I can just secrete. You more than anyone, give that man's freedom to secrete as much as he wants. Maybe it's just a very basic way. I've drawn to theater more than film it tells you. He's like, you're shiny, you have to. And I was like, no, this is, this is what happens when I act. This is what. And then on stage, you can get away with that.

And on film, they're, they're, they're powdering it away. It is the borderline or more than borderline shocking that I don't think you've ever done a non-animated musical film. Like you've, you've obviously frozen doesn't get any bigger than that. But like, they're not that few and far between these movie. musicals now they happen a few big ones a year you must you've gone up for these you've come close like I don't know what's your relationship to the modern movie musical are there ones you've wanted are there ones you still want to do that are in development what's the other dreams of of that it's funny like I feel like also with movie musicals there's they're also so hard to get

right yeah and I I was, I was, like, attached to one with Kristen Bell. We were going to do one a few years back. And, yeah, like, I, I would love to do a movie musical. I'm really fascinated by the medium of movie musical and how they work. Although, I guess Wicked was a huge hit. That's right. It was, like, a massive.

And I loved it. So that's a great example of one that's working now, or has worked now. I really, and I'm way too old for it now, but I really think that the movie musical that could just really blow up the genre again would be the film version of Spring Awakening. In the same way that I feel like that, the stage production of cabaret directed by How Prince

was a huge success, but then Bob Fosse directing that movie and the way that music is used, that cabaret is one of my favorite movies of all time and the way that that music the way that that was a musical but also a movie like the characters were singing but it was all kind of performance based and it sort of did that in a way in chicago that all of the most of the songs were in roxy's head but i feel like spring awakening is is really just like the perfect movie musical because all of the songs are in the character's head they kind of serve as like music videos Can you give me, off the top of your head, Jonathan Gras' top five movie musicals of all time? What's your Mount Rushmore? What are your favorites? What are your go-toes? Okay.

Cabaret is not only like one of my favorite musicals, but one of my favorite movies, period, of all time, regardless. I love cabaret. I love all that jazz. I love Greece. I love the sound of music. And I love Mary Poppins, because that, can that count as a movie musical? Yeah. Many music in there.

Yeah. Okay. There it is, the definitive list. we're running on time but i remember on our conversation from merrily uh your co-stars ribbed you lovingly about kind of the work-life balance the the song the the song about the um the takeout boxes in your apartment bags got the takeout bags there's the sugarfish bag as i look to my right sugarfish that's it's got to smell soon man that's sushi that's you got to eat all of it it's just the bad. Okay, good. So are you figuring it out? You want, you want a healthy life. The work is

sustaining and it's beautiful, but you also, and I haven't, what, none of us have figured it out, really, but it's a constant, we work in progress, I guess. But where are you at in terms of kind of, I don't know, finding a life and a work balance? Great question. Okay. So for this job, I did, like, just as far as eating is concerned, quick sidebar. I did like prepared meals. So I have had three meals a day delivered to me five days a week from the first week of February till now. And that's going to, and I'm going to keep with this service until we finish with the Tony Awards. And then I'm going to try and be like, okay, rough, that's done.

Now you put your day is free. You can try and make things on your own that are healthy. So I'm going to try June and July is going to be my leaning into that. work like that i will say that that does sound like a dream to me because like 40% of my day is spent deciding what i want to eat so like the amount of mental space you have in your head i mean you can salt you can cure cancer it's like dangerously convenient i and the it's so good i know and i i'm like really a basic eater i don't i don't have to i could eat the same thing every day for years i this is perfect for you yeah so perfect for me but i want to branch out josh i want to

Okay. So life workouts, life is completely on hold right now. For better or for worse, I'm really giving that Bobby Darren existence of like the play is the thing obsessed with my job. I even like, yeah, I'm really, this is a, this is a really, it's like, I would say it's 95, 5%. I mean, yesterday, yesterday was the first day off I had in like a while. And I spent 10, hours responding to text messages literally 10 hours i like went and took myself to lunch and had some wine i was like day drinking responding to text i did like a foot massage responding to text this is how like um i'm i'm hoping with the food that once i hit july june and july it's just been really intense with the show and i i've never done so much in a show before so this has just

been a very extreme, I would say, like five months, but I'm, I might be seeing the silver lining of a personal life during the day. The horizon there it is. I see it coming, yeah. After, once I hit mid-June. I am going to see Beyonce on the 25th of May in the evening. Priorities, yeah. My religion is intact.

Okay, we end with the happy, say I confuse profoundly random questions. Here we go. are you a dogs or cats person cats okay do you collect anything what do you collect books

okay do you have a favorite video game of all time was there anything you played as a kid Super Mario Brothers one I would say the first one classic the Dakota Johnson Memorial question

she asked me this would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt definitely one B in my butt let's go Are you offering because I'm interested. Are you? It's like you are, Josh.

Oh, God. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Pennsylvania, baby. It's what? Pennsylvania. Oh, lovely. Pennsylvania. It's not quite a wah-wah, but it's home.

It's like. Oh, I say it's it. Yeah. Who's the last actor you were mistaken for? Andrew Reynolds. All these gays, all these white gays. Although someone, when I was biking by on the street, which was so exciting to me on Sunday after the matinee, I was biking on the Upper East Side. And someone just screamed up, Bobby Darren, I love your work. And I was like, oh, I love that. I love that I was just called Bobby Darren. Yeah, he lives again through you. That's beautiful. you did answer this i'm curious if you'll answer it the same way as you did last time the worst

note of director has ever given you do it less gay it's hard to top that one that's pretty bad um in the spirit of happy say i'm confused an actor who always makes you happy oh an actor who always makes me happy see them on screen you immediately like i'm at good god that's so good um goldie han great great movie that makes you sad in a good way weekend okay that's the first for that one nice and a food that makes you confused marmite oh yeah and what is that again they spread it on the thing and yeah oh because when you were probably doing matrix that was probably all around right that's an australian thing or a It's like, no, it was in London.

Oh, okay. I think it was, yeah, I was doing a play there. It was disgusting. Okay, that won't be part of the diet when he comes out of his three meals a day regimen. I'm so happy we made this happen today. Congratulations on all the success. Thank you for coming to the show and for being such a game dancer. Oh, my God.

I don't know. Let's go back to the videotape. I'm not sure how game I was. Thank you for remembering it that way. Oh, game. This is great. Just in Time is the musical, folks. Get your tickets now.

It is such a treat to see this guy doing what few can compare to. He's the best at what he does. And good luck at the Tony's man. I'll be on the carpet. So look for me there. We'll catch up. I will. How exciting.

Okay. I'll see you there. Excellent. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer,

and director. You might know me from the League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them.

We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard. of Aganja and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure.

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