Happy Sad Confused - Jonathan Majors

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Jonathan Majors is without a doubt THE actor of the moment and he's here on HAPPY SAD CONFUSED to talk about it all! CREED III, ANT-MAN & THE WASP: QUANTUMANIA, why he reveres Heath Ledger's Joker performance, and more. To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to Josh's youtube channel here! Check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! ZOCDOC -- Go to Zocdoc.com/HappySad and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Jonathan Majors on Kang the Conqueror, Creed 3, and Being in the Eye of the Storm.

Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, and we've got a first-time guest on the pod today and someone I am so, so, so excited to welcome to the Happy Say. confused family. I know this guy is going to be a regular. Jonathan Majors. I just said it. He's in the eye of the storm. This guy is everywhere. The cover of Vanity Fair in a marble movie, in a big old creed movie, in a movie that we're going to be talking about at the end of the year when it

comes to awards. He's got it all happening. And I am so excited for this guy and for what is to come, what is happening now. Jonathan Majors, he's the real deal. And he's on Happy, say I confused at last today. Before we get to that, not much else to update you guys on. No live events I can mention yet, but we're getting closer to announcing some, I promise you. I promise you. We'll be back at 92 NY, maybe some stuff at Symphony Space as well, some announcements coming very soon. That, as always, will be announced first over on the Patreon page, patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. I spent a good portion of a day last week. at the post office, sending off a bunch of autographed, happy, set, confused posters to loyal

Patreon folk. That's the kind of full service you get from Josh Horowitz. I'm a one-man band. Not quite. We have a support team for the podcast, but sometimes you just got to go to the post office yourself. You got to put the posters in the poster tubes. You got to autograph it yourself. You got to put the labels on. You got to just do it yourself, guys. Man, that's a lot. the people. Anyway, all just to say, if you want some, you know, free cool stuff, we've got these great Happy Say Confused posters of Sam Hewin, of Adam Sandler, of Daniel Craig, of Kumel Nanjiani, of someone else I'm forgetting, of me. Someone else cool, too, I can't remember. But anyway, choose your poster, get it autographed if you want, just by joining the Patreon page at an

annual level, all the information is over there, patreon.com slash happy, say, conferectue. use. Make sure if you're listening to this podcast and you want to watch the podcast. There are many options for you. YouTube. YouTube.com slash Josh Horowitz. Subscribe on Spotify. Did you know on Spotify? You can now watch and listen to podcasts. Subscribe over there. We have all the options for you guys. Got a chance to catch up with Austin Butler last week. Speaking of recent podcast guests who are in the eye of the storm. I moderated a fun Q&A with him here in New York City. It was so good to catch up with him, both on the stage and prior. We really, we had a nice, a nice catch-up about this whole silly, crazy time in his life. You know,

I picked his brain about Dune. I'm not going to divulge what I know, but I know stuff. I'm excited. But yeah, he's such a good dude. And it's great to see him, see him with a crowd and receive the love and send the love back out there. He's just a good genuine dude, and I'm very happy for him. Whether he wins the Oscar or not, seems like it's down to him. And Brendan Fraser, speaking of good dudes, you know, we can't go wrong with the contenders this year. Not to mention Colin Farrell, who I adore. So it's nice there's still some races after like 12, 17 months of Oscar season, it feels like, that we actually still don't know who's going to win best actor. It's probably going to be Brendan or Austin. We do know what.

What's going to win Best Picture, right, guys? Everything Everywhere all at once. That's winning. Now, actress, I don't know. I thought Kate Blanchett was winning, but Michelle Yeh just won the SAG Award. What's happening there, guys? What's happening at Supporting Actress? Jamie Lee Curtis won.

I thought it was Angela Bassett's. Oh, the intrigue. Oscars are coming soon. So I'll be watching. I know you guys will too. All right, so let's talk. Speaking of Oscars and award stuff, this guy's going to get some hardware soon enough. Jonathan Majors is so talented. If you've seen him in The Last Black Man in San Francisco,

which was kind of his first calling card film, the harder they fall, the five bloods, and now exploding at a whole other stratosphere of movie making. He is, of course, Kang the Conqueror in the new Ant Man film. And say what you will about the Ant Man film, and I know it has its critics, he delivers. He's great. And I'm so excited that he is the big, of the next, of this phase. He's got his name in the title. The Kang Dynasty is the next Avengers movie. He is such a compelling presence on screen.

He's so intelligent and so thoughtful and just interesting, interesting dude. You will get a sense of that in this conversation today. We caught up about Ant Man. There are some spoilers to Ant Man, by the way, in this conversation because it's been out for a bit, and this was a nice opportunity to talk about some stuff that he wasn't able to talk about the last time we chatted. We also talk about Creed, Creed III.

He plays the nemesis of Creed in this one, Damien, who, you know, really goes toe to toe with Michael B and is a somewhat kind of sympathetic character in some ways. This character, without revealing too much, is someone that Adonis has known since childhood and was incarcerated and is now out and is looking for a shot. That's all on the trail, don't worry, I didn't spoil anything. But it's a very nuanced, multi-layered performance, and it makes for a really compelling narrative in Creed. I love the Creed movies, by the way.

This new one's great, and Michael B. Jordan directed it, and I'm so happy that he got a chance to show what he can do behind the camera as well. So, yes, Creed 3. We, of course, talk Marvel. But we also talk about some really deep stuff about his life growing up, you know, just his place in the world where his frustrations, his passions, his aspirations. I think you're going to fall for everything he stands for when you listen to this conversation. He's the real deal. I can't say enough about him.

All right. Remember to review rate him, subscribe to happy, say I'm confused. spread the good word, write us a review on iTunes. That really helps us a lot. And as I said before, check us out on Patreon, on YouTube. It's all in the show notes. You know what to do. All right, here he is, the man of the moment. Enjoy my conversation with Mr. Jonathan Majors. Jonathan, this has been a bit of a long time coming. We've had a bunch of chats in the last year. But I've been waiting for this, a little bit of a deep dive, the first of many. I'm Sure. Congratulations, man, on what has been a really exciting run so far. How are you doing? How are you holding up? I've got your Vanity Fair cover here. I can't get away from you. You're just everywhere, man. You know, I do wonder. I do wonder if it's too much. I do wonder if it's overwhelming. You know, something I've never thought of in my life, you know, probably I'm always coming from such a deficit. You know what I mean?

But, no, everything's good. You know, it's, to be honest, there's a sense of real sobriety. You know what I mean? It's very sobering the whole thing where you just feel, it's just kind of floating, grounded, you know, present. But maybe so present. It's so present, you know. Well, that's, look, I mean,

You are a guy that this, in a way, part of this, at least. This isn't the goal, but this is a part of what's been the goal, right? To get the opportunity to show off different facets of yourself. And you are kind of in the eye of that storm right now. Like, I've talked to actors at every phase of their career. And it's really exciting to talk to you right now because you literally are in the middle of it. And you have the self-awareness to know that. And presence, I think, is a very important word to like, to, to,

be aware of it and to feel it and to let it absorb it because this is a special time. It doesn't happen. This doesn't happen often. You may have cracked it, man. If one is in the eye of the storm, it's quite peaceful. I think that's what I'm feeling. I'm kind of walking around with that piece. You know, I see everything going on around me. You know, I have an wherewithal to know that that's not me. You know, the guy you see on the poster is a, is a a deep, personal, concentrated version of me, but it's not me and concentrate, if that makes sense. And so it's really cool, I guess.

It's really cool that way. You know, and that's an artist. You know, I think of all the artists that I admire, you know, the writers, the poets, the actors, the artists, the dancers. This moment is something that we've all, you hear people write about these moments

you know so to be in the moment is it's never what you expect is it and also I would imagine look you are an artist first and foremost you're gonna act your way through this

this storm you know what you're gonna you're gonna enjoy this and go to the parties and do the things and do the magazine covers and then you're gonna do what you do

would make art yes yes yes there's a countdown yeah so let's let's let's start by getting you on the couch here uh jonathan if you weren't an actor what do you think you'd be today i think i just realized i'd be an english teacher yeah i think i just realized i'd be an english

teacher yeah it's it's interesting because look we're gonna talk about a bunch of things i mean since we last spoke i've seen creed three which is fantastic i mean michael b just kills it as a director and you're obviously amazing in this. The character really made an indelible mark for me, Damien, as a character that, you know, is relatable, I think, for a lot of us in like, it's all about choices and circumstances, right? Yes, yes. And I would imagine this is something that you can relate to,

like being in a fraught circumstance, making a choice, and not, and someone like Damien, not having, you know, being given a second chance. not being given the wherewithal to like make a, to make a mistake and then say, you know what, it's okay. The system absolves you of that and lets you move on. Is that something that you kind of like apply to your own life? You think back to your upbringing and the times you went left instead of right. Do you relate that at all to Damien?

Yeah, Damien is a, there's a very particular time in my life that I know I was closest to Damien. I was in and out of different schools. I was wearing big clothes. I was, you know, I said at the end of the lunchroom table, I have a very clear image of that or my backpack very low. We know this guy. I was this guy, you know. That snapshot in my head is Dane.

That's the guy that goes into Damien, you know. I mean, Damien has an encouragement. amount of, um, uh, heartbreak and an incredible amount of ambition, you know, and it's going up against the system, you know, like, like that was, I mean, that was literally my life, you know, growing up, you know, um, it's no, no spoiler, you know, grew up very, um, I mean, a part of a proletariat, blue collar, you know, single mother. I mean, we've all heard the story before you know um but the intensity of it you know for me felt greater and there were a great those times when i quote unquote went left you don't mean um did it feel like the system was

stacked up against you when you were a kid did you feel like you were like well i got news for you the system still stacked up against me yeah if you took if you take the posters down you know um yeah you're just going to a store going to a gas station and the system's not not ruin for it. It's not pro, it's not, yeah, it's not, yeah, it's that got my back at all, you know. Yeah, yeah. But there's something, and that, and that's why,

one reason I want to play the role, because there is also something in those individuals, in those quiet, kind of heartbroken, angry individuals. If they have all of that, right, because I know for me, you know, all that was in me, and yet there was also all of this, other stuff that was countering it that the joy the hope the dreamer um the explorer you know to get out of the place i was in one of the reasons i was so truant every you know i skips schools to it you know

um and that's what i also wanted to show in and in dame and that's what was calling me you know that balance yeah do you remember growing up when you first articulated wanting to be an artist to your mom to family to friends and was that did that feel like a bold thing to say out loud so to actually like own it because it wasn't wasn't something from your circumstances that necessarily was thought to be one of the paths i would think right um that's interesting because my mom would tell the story of me saying i was going to be a pastor you know what i mean and i was like the funny thing is i never i don't remember that at all and like i remember i like i don't remember that well that was her world too right that was like what she right so she thought that was the

apparently I said that, you know, but maybe, I don't know if I'm laughing, the idea was, for me, the performance element of it, you know what I mean? Like, I watch that a lot. I watch people in the pulpit a lot, do that thing, you know, tell stories and incite catharsis and people in the congregation. And I know that was something that as a boy, I was deeply, deeply connected to, you know, like the rhythm of the sermon, I would be going to rock my body, you know, and like bob my head to the rhythm of the pastor's cadence. You know, I felt that, you know, rhythm and speech is something

that I'm really interested in and I always have been. And so if I did or if I didn't, say that to my mom, I think that's what I met. You know, I want to be up there and do that thing. I had a bit of a, I had a leg up because I wasn't, I was one of Lake Bloomer. I was too, yeah, I was a late bloomer. So I didn't have the pressures of trying to be cool, you know, when I was growing up. And my family, we were such a family unit that we, I mean, we were just a bunch of, you know, rebels, you know, in my family. Like, we did what we had to do to stay safe, but we essentially were like, as long as we survive, you know, it's fine. you know like it's fine and so when this acting thing really came in uh for me my mom just i mean

she didn't bad night you know it was never there's never an issue you know it only became a thing when uh i got older you know and i began to look like an athlete you know and i began to you know the system began to sort me out and say you're this now you know that's when the conflict came in um and it came in strong um meaning what meaning are you talking about typecasting based on your looks your appearance your build like that kind of thing i mean you call it typecasting i call it profiling you know no yeah no you're right of course they're profiled you know as a young black man in texas you know that that that that that had power you know had emotional power had intellectual power, you know, all these things, a lot, I began to get pushed in certain

places, you know, and the first thing, the first place I was redlined was academics. You I mean? I wasn't allowed in the gifted and talented courses. I got around that. There's some Damien. I forged my mom's signature and then put me in that. Forged it again, two years later, put me in the AP courses. Right. So like, you know, this is, this isn't for you. This, you know, Exactly, you know, exactly. And then even, actually, funny thing is, like, it was all going great, you know, with the acting thing. And then I got to a certain place because the acting,

I was pushed, I got in acting. My family never said, no, right? But it was the culture of, you know, what it was being an actor in my town that I was in, which actually had a very strong and popular ecosystem for the arts, you know, where I was at. But I didn't come from, I didn't have the financial background that a lot of the kids did. And whereas, like there's a place called Young Actors Studio, and I couldn't afford to go.

And everybody in my group, you know, in my troop, they were all doing that on the weekends. And I couldn't afford that. And, you know, I was in playing the different roles and all this. and they were seeing to be in the, you know, that's where the, that's where the, that's where the pushback came, you know. And that, and that's what I fought against for a very long time. So much in fact that my, I remember my mom saying this to me,

when my sister, my sister's three years older than me, and she got her acceptance letter in the college. And that night, after the celebration, my mom looked at me, you know, next in line. I have a younger brother below me and said, baby, you've got to get good at something, because mama can't afford, you know, college. My sister just got in a scholarship. And so we were all, you know, very celebratory.

But then she looked at her next, you know, child and saw the damnation of society that was being placed on me. And she said that. And so I then took that mentality of like, this is what I'm going to get good at. You know, I picked up the instruments. I had given up, you know, academics. I still held in there. I still did my thing. I was still participating at that academic level, much to my teacher's chagrin, but I was surviving that, you know, but this acting thing was going to have to be the way I made my bread and butter. Well, what's interesting, what you say, just makes me think of a thousand different directions to go.

But, like, I mean, you know, you talk about, you talked earlier about, like, look, outside of acting or whatever, you know, in your day-to-day life, you're still, you know, the system is against you. Let's be real. Is acting a respite from that in a way? where like you can be anything, you can be Kang the Conqueror, you can be Damien, you can be a bodybuilder, you can be a romantic lead. Is acting kind of almost that safe place where it's like there are no limitations, there are no expectations, or at least there are less of them? And if I'm good enough at my job and I can break your expectations of what I can be.

Meritocracy is not real, you see, except for when you get to the gradations, of emotion and the impact that emotion has and there you have a problem because if someone can move you right you cannot deny it right um in the arts there is a meritocracy not of talent right but of capability to shift the other person right to make them feel something to make them experience something yeah that is real yeah that is probably that's probably the most real thing i've ever experienced in my life the most real thing and i've doubled down on that i've made a career on that and no they will tell you no you can't play hamlet right or you can't play romeo um uh because you look the way you look until you get in that room and you say those words

and you make them feel Romeo and you make them feel Hamlet. And so you then have to, so then, so then I'm in a position that I'm very used to being in where the odds are stacked against me. But I've got the tools now. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's this acting thing. This is how you do it.

And this emotional thing, this feeling thing, this connecting to people thing, is something that, for whatever reason, I have an appetite for it. That changed the game. You mentioned, I think, in our last conversation, having a bit of an athlete's mindset at times in your life as you even approach the arts. And I'm wondering, like, I was watching the movie and there's a great scene relatively early on, I think in a diner between you and Michael B. And it has shades of less of a sports movie and more of like a scene out of heat. It's like, it's like two guys just sizing each other up. Yeah.

And trying to reconnect and connect and figure out what's going on behind the eyes. I don't know. When you go into a scene like that, is there a bit of, is it healthy to have a bit of like an athlete's mentality? Like, this sounds counterintuitive to me, but like to win a scene. Like, do you want to win a scene from Michael B? No. No. Nipsey Hustle says, let me just get this right. Nipsey says, uh, competition is contrary, um, to creativity. Right? Yeah. That makes sense? Yeah. I've got it. Yeah. So there's none of that. The athlete's mentality is more like Kobe, right? The Black Mamba, right? Where he's up at 4 o'clock in the gym shooting. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Case and point. And this is just, these are just facts. You work in the offseason when you play the sport, right? That's how I grew up. I played basketball in the offseason. You may play another sport, but there's preseason. You're always working for the season. they give you a finite amount of time in school, right? North Carolina of School of the Yards, it's, it's, you do your school year, right?

But then you have the summer. During the summer, that's off-season. I would go train someplace else in off-season. And literally remember going into the, going to my dean's office saying, I will not make orientation because the last day of class in New York City is this day. And I'm getting on a bus that day and coming back. So I would be here for the first day of class. You know what I mean?

and so from North Carolina School of the Arts to Yale School of Drama that's seven years of consistent training because every gap I was doing something right that's what I mean by the mentality you can say what you want about Jonathan you're not going to outwork him you're not going to out hustle him

he's going to put in the hours well that's just the mentality of a kid coming down the hill right if everything's stacked against you right if everything if you feel everything's stacked against you you. Why would you, why would you not? Right. How would you not?

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Damien talks a bit about, like, feeling like, he feels like the clock is ticking on him, right? He's lost all this time. Kind of ironic. There's a lot of time metaphors. We can talk about time when it applies to both of these characters and these two new films, right? Do you feel like the clock ticking for you right now? We started this conversation in terms of like, this is the moment. You're in the storm right now.

Like, do you feel that like, I got the juice. right now. I got to like, I got to make the right choices. I got to do the right things. No, you don't. I mean, it's funny. It actually, it actually doesn't upset me, but it makes me, it just makes me uncomfortable a bit, right? Because I go, that's literally someone else's pressure. Right. That's literally, that's someone else's narrative. If I follow anybody else's narrative ever in my life, I'd be dead in jail, terrible dad, no education. No education. You know what I mean? If I follow anybody else's narrative but my own, I would, you know, so the time crunch, the juice and all of that, look, is there is, can, can one make advance, quicker advancement in moments like this? Yes, of course. That's true. But there is, there is no finite amount of, I can't wrap my mind around the idea that this is a moment because that's terrifying, isn't it? sure because time moves on right it's out of control there's only some you can only control

it's in front of you yeah and so what i'm focused on is uh the movement that i'm moving my art and my artistic uh career from one place to another place that's that's all that's happening right and people are helping me do that participating in me doing that and witnessing me do that you know the lion's share people are witnessing it right which is why there's that idea of oh my goodness look what's happening you know right um yeah um let's talk uh comic books uh for a little bit because last time i spoke right let's let's let's let's lighten up talk a little comic books last time you were telling me a little bit about uh your preoccupation as a kid with uh yes you teased that uh that there are many photos of you perhaps in batman garb growing up yes

And then I read separately that, like, like many actors, you've talked about Heath Ledger being, like, that Joker performance was a huge one for you watching. Yeah. How do we close the loop on this, Jonathan? Is it by you playing Batman? They're looking for yet another Batman. Oh, my God. Nah, I don't know, man. We've got King in the mix, you know.

You don't want to betray your MCU friends? Don't play your heroes. You know what I mean? No. No, don't betray your heart. You can't betray your heart. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's such a circus, isn't it?

You know? But I would say, you know, if I'm going to be, if we're just going to talk about it, I do think there is something to the legacy of, you know, the mythology of Batman, the mythology of Heath Ledger, his Joker in particular. And what's going on, you know, the frequency of those performances, right the way those guys are felt and understood um i would love that to be in the uh uh mixture of what it is i'm doing now you know i love it well elaborate on that for a second for me because like from from my vantage point what i what i get off from like that kind of convert

that that performance is like it feels so raw so um you're in the moment with him it feels like it's on it's he can't be contained um and so authentic in its own way as silly as insane as it may be it has just what what what what why do so many actors review that performance and why do you well i i can't speak for other actors right because i i think i know the answer and i think yeah i'm never that's not your answer okay but yeah it's not my it's actually to me it's the vulnerability right which is in the um there's a very clear There's a difference between audacity and bravery in one's work, right? I mean, yeah, the bravery of the work is slightly unparalleled.

You know what I mean? The bravery, because he knows what he's doing. And it's not in response to anything else, right? It is what he feels he needs to do. It's how he feels he needs to behave, and he's doing it freely, and he's aware, right? That's the thing. It's actually not the wildness of it. It's the specificity of it.

It's the focus of the performance, right, that makes him feel to some wild. But I see it the other way. I see the deep, focus, meditative chaos that he has put himself in on purpose, and that's where the bravery lies. And I go, hmm, and what happens from that is that physicality is, and we know how, we know, we know the Tom White story. This is a person who did research, who did his work, like just the mythology around Heath Ledger's Joker is, I mean, it rivals that. of, you know, Sylvester Stallone's, you know, story of Rocky, you know what I mean?

Or Matt, like I know them, Matt Damien, Gaplex, a little hunting story, yeah, but, you know what I mean? It's brave. It's not audacious. It's brave. He knows exactly what he's doing, the risk of it, and he's leaning into it,

period, period. That's why I love it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Can, uh, since it's been a minute, since Ant Man came out, and I wasn't able to talk to you about this then. One of the post-credit scenes, when we get to see you, Ramatut, Immortes, I believe the Centurion, what was it like to shoot that and the many different incarnations?

That must have been a long day or a few days, but was it also just like mana from heaven to like just luxuriate in all the Kangs? Yeah, it was great. It was super great. I actually had walking pneumonia. yeah yeah yeah i didn't know it sounds super great i didn't know that i had walking pneumonia at the time so there were moments of like real euphoria because i was like i don't know you know it was it was crazy um

so you when you have the wild-eyed like like that's walking pneumonia jonathan major's yeah yeah walking pneumonia imagine if he was healthy wow yeah yeah it was um man listen i'm as you say that i'm having flashbacks of like you know sitting in drama school at Yale, you know, and just like two o'clock in the morning and just going crazy in there, no one's there, just trying to figure things out. Right. All that work, man, all that imaginative rubbish that you put in those rooms and, you know, everything works.

Everything plays at some point, you know. Some of those characters I was making up in clown class or, you know, with my daughter or, you know, as I'm walking in dogs, you know, like, it was, it was in. insane. You know, shooting those things. Insane, you know. When you, when you saw yourself in full, which of those like looks took your breath away when you saw yourself in the full regalia? All of them, really. I mean, to be honest, all of them. I mean, you can, I mean, a mortis is wicked. You know, Ramatut is wicked. You know, Centurion is wicked. You know, it was really some of the other guys I was having fun with, too. you know, just the pop-up guys that, you know, came in. Watching the background a little bit.

The Legion, those guys, you know, those guys were really fun, too. It's actually making me very happy to talk about it, you know what I mean? Because it was such a private thing, such a secret thing. Yeah. Me and two other people in the world knew what was happening, you know. And why are you working on the weekend? Just trust me. It's going to be cool. On Sunday.

It was. Working on a Sunday. So it was up. Yeah. So do you know, again, do you know which Kang or Kangs you're playing in Kang Dynasty? Because I guess Kang the Conqueror is dead. We, we just, goodbye. It was a nice little run. So long. I know King Dynasty is happening. I don't know. I don't know anything other than that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it a conversation though? Like, can you kind of like weigh in? Because you, you've done all the research. You're in it. You're still in it. Like, are you, is it a negotiation like, oh, I'd love to see this Kang. Would you guys be open to that? Part of negotiation, I mean, it's a, but there is a great deal of creative respect, you know what I know, though I know very little, I know, I've spoken to Destin. You know, I know more about the thrust of it. I know more about the feeling of it. I know. That's the things I know, you know, as thinking true. I mean, there would be a time. Obviously, you got to make the movie where I'll have information that you're asking me and I can say, no, I can't tell you, you know. Um, but as it stands, it's, uh, it's still very inspirational, you know, um, yeah. How many Avengers have you met so far? Have you met Downey yet? Have you met Evans or

Hamzor? Robert Downey? Yeah. Oh, I've not met Robert Downey Jr. much to my chagrin. Inspirational. I adore that man. I adore him. I think he's just, his story very much like he, you know what I mean? Like, like that I don't give a fuck, you know, vibration, you know, that he's a mystic, you know, you know, he understands something. Yeah. You may not say he does, but he does. And there's also a bit of that, that I know you have a fondness for like the clown nose.

There's a bit of a clown to him. He's just, he's not, he's, oh, yeah, I mean, both, both those guys. I mean, all the, all my, all my favorite guys, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, all great artists have strong clowns, you know, they all have really strong clowns, you know. Meryl Streep's clown is extremely strong. Courtney B. Vance's clown is adorable. I mean, they don't know it, you know. And maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. But when I watch them, I go, oh, it's good.

That's really good. You know. Mark Rylance. I can keep on. That's a good one. Tilda Swinton. Geez. Yeah.

Forget about it. So I can grant you out of the superpower of having lunch with any filmmaker or actor on the planet tomorrow. Clear schedule. Who should we book you with tomorrow? Jonathan. Tilda Swinton. She's on another frequency.

There's something. She's a mystic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was between Tilda and the Mark Rylance. They both shared that. You're right.

They're both. Two of my favorites. Yeah. You see, look, in our interactions, the last few months, I feel like you are simultaneously the most chill man on the planet and the most driven man on the planet. what would you what would your friends say about you the close people in your world like which is it a fusion of the both of them are you more one or the other is it depending on which day

of the week it is or what um i think amongst well there's the public and the private you know um i tried i think my friends would say um i play a different position with friends you know i mean here I'm just worried about me and my work you know I mean and I have to be relaxed in it and I have to be driven and I'm pretty um I allow myself to be ambivalent about certain things which is I think it's healthy um and then there is the drive right it's different you know there's ambition that's drive there's certain things I can't help you know and I think that's what a lot of my friends would say, you know, quite passionate.

You know, I'm very passionate, you know, and driven, you know. But I just lay down, you know, I just kind of just, hmm, you mean, nothing. I get you, you get your listeners, I think I just did, but, you know, we can watch it too. You know, it's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know.

I guess a good way to be. That balance is important, and I think those close to me would, yeah i feel quite comfortable with you you know so yeah i think you're getting you know pretty much friend vibes kicking it vibes oh i appreciate that man um yeah it's really impressed me also that thus far in the career which is still relatively young as at least in the film work bro it's very it's it's it's just a big it's it's the juvenilia which i think is a great word you know your nursery school um but you know it's uh you talked last time about like building

the museum, right, build the museum of the career. So, like, we've got, like, the different, and does that mean, like, genre? Does that mean types of characters? Like, what do you parse that out for me a little bit? It means all of it. You know, like, you walk into a Picasso exhibit, you know, of course you expect to see certain pieces, you know, there's cubism over there, right? Yeah, of course, that's duh. So we're going to see that. But then what are these charcoal paintings over here. What's that? And then you walk down the hall. So you could call that, whatever you want to call it. Let's call it Last MacMan, San Francisco. What are those over there? You know, and you go down the hall furthermore and you see, you know, these sculptures.

What are that? These huge sculptures, well, that's Kang, of course, you know, and then behind that, you see, you know, what is that? What is that made out of it? Oh, that looks like a sports film, you know, but it all has that initial on it. It's all got that, you know, Picasso, as he writes it as we've all seen it you know it's all written there um you build it out you know i think i think one of my biggest things is um you know sometimes my friends would probably say he's quite frustrated i'm very frustrated that's very true about me i'm in a constant state of frustration is it is it frustrated with your own stuff or external stuff or or everything what are we talking about um

external and internal you know of course because i'm i'm i'm projecting the world as i as i feel it inside so yeah there's a about 40 30% is a is a high level of um frustration um i said to say that one of my objectives is to um one of my objectives is to be understood good, right? And so it is through that frustration that fuels that need to be understood. And so the more work we make, right, and the more diverse it is, potentially the more I could be understood, right? Because if you only have statues, no one knows you or can understand you through watercolor, right? You only do these, you know, small independent films. No one sees you at the scale of a Damien. But if you only do, you know, these big blockbusters, how could someone possibly

understand a wrong conversion of you. You know, like, it's insatiable, you know, to be understood, right? Primarily, I think, just, I don't know where we are on time, but it feels like that's what I felt was wrong with that kid at the end of the table that I was with the hoodie and the pants and the this and of that and by his lonesome, you know, he was frustrated and sad and because he couldn't be understood, right? Yeah.

It was, he was, he was on the outside of the hurricane, you know, and he couldn't get purchase of anything, you know. And now in adulthood, you know, maybe that ease that you witness is me sitting in the middle of it and being very particular about how to articulate myself, which is the museum, right? Well, and it doesn't just by the way apply to actors. That's all any of us want is to be seen for our true selves, right? It's real. Yeah, yeah. I think that's true. You know, I think that's true.

I know we have to rap, man, but just to say it, I'm so impressed because, look, it's, it's hard to have integrity at all in this business. And especially, like, you're working, you're working in IP. You're working in, like, Marvel and, and Rocky movies. It's like, oh, you know, this is the machine. And what you're doing within that is truly great. It's truly inspiring. It's special work, man. And I feel so privileged that we've gotten a chance to get to know each other a bunch the last few months.

and I know we're going to chat a lot more, man. And I thank you, as always, for the time. Well, I mean, listen, man, believe it or not, it's highlight of my day so far. You have me, chatting with you. Even though I have to talk some shit to my guys over here. Yeah, but it's been the best part of the day. I hope to see you soon in person, man.

Get some rest. Sure will. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall.

I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Chalemay playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bugonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar.

In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLewis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat too, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.