Happy Sad Confused - Joseph Gordon-Levitt

Episode Date: September 1, 2021

Joseph Gordon-Levitt has been performing in front of a camera for virtually his entire life so yeah, there's a lot to chat about on his first visit to "Happy Sad Confused"! Josh and Joe cover a lot, from "3rd Rock From the Sun" to "The Dark Knight Rises" to his own series he created, "Mr. Corman"! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Joseph Gordon Levin, from Third Rock from the Sun to the Dark Night Rises to his new show for Apple, Mr. Corman. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrow. It's welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Joseph Gordon-Levitt, as I said, he is the main attraction. He is the one and only guest on today's episode of Happy, Say, Confused. first time on the podcast, shockingly enough, even though I've talked to Joe many, many times throughout the years. I remember in the early going, it was films like stop loss and, of course,

500 days of summer. I've talked at length on the podcast, I think, before about being at that first screening for 500 days of summer at Sundance. That was one of the best kind of surprise film experiences I've ever had in a theater. So, you know, Joe has always made. it up in the best possible way, whether it is Sundance films, blockbusters like his work with Christopher Nolan, or his directing efforts. He directed a great film a few years back called Don John, in which he starred was Scarlett Johansson. And now his baby on Apple TV Plus, and I'm so happy for him, this is a 10-episode series called Mr. Corman, in which Joe plays the Mr. Corman of the title. And it is a bit of a what-if alter ego for Joe in that they

share many qualities, but this is, this is a Joe, this is a character that didn't necessarily find their place in the arts. And if anything, he's kind of a frustrated artist in this. He's a, he's a teacher, which he finds rewarding in some ways, but there is a bit of unfulfilled ambition in this, in this Mr. Corman character. And we follow him through his relationships with his family and his dating life. And like Joe's work, and if you know his work, especially in projects like his hit record endeavor, his kind of social media platform. You know Joe likes to kind of experiment and push the envelope in interesting ways using animation and music. And this show is anything but conventional. It zigs and zags in very cool ways, has digressions in certain episodes that you

don't see coming. And I really dug it. I watched the whole series, all 10 episodes. I think by the time you hear this conversation with Joe, maybe the first five or six episodes are out. So dig into it. It's on Apple TV Plus and watch the episodes and watch Joe's baby come to life because, you know, we got to support great artists out there and Joe is certainly one of them. This is a guy who has been performing since he was just a little kid and we get into kind of all of it and, you know, his early going as an actor through his kind of first huge break, which was, of course, on Third Rock from the Sun, in which he starred opposite the likes of John Let's go and Jane Curtin, and what a gift and what a fantastic experience that ended up being for him.

And then mixing it up with kind of indie Sundance films, then reinventing himself in films like Inception and the Dark Night Rises at 50-50, kind of more mainstream stuff. And now kind of finding that great balance between the big studio stuff and the unique independent stuff, working in TV, working in film, doing it all. So always enjoy talking to Joseph Gordon-Levitt because he is somebody in it for the right reasons and is just a decent good guy and someone I've had the privilege of knowing and talking to for many, many years. And it was fun to catch up with him about this new endeavor. So that's the main event on today's podcast. Other stuff to mention, well, as always, there's a lot going on in the TV film world and certainly a lot going on that I've been up to.

Shang-chi opens this Friday, if you're listening. listening to this when the pod drops. Chongchi is just hours away, and I really dug it. This is a really fun, cool launch of a new superhero in the MCU. Simi Liu has charisma to burn. He's fantastic in it. Tony Leung is just like, oh, my God, just amazing. Eats up the screen every second he's on it.

Of course, Michelle Yo, Aquafina. It's a really great cast, and exciting to see a new character on the scene that takes their rightful place among the pantheon of great Marvel heroes. So along those lines, I did do a bunch of conversations for this movie. I talked about Simu for the first time, and he was a delight, and Aquafina, who I've had the pleasure of talking to throughout her career. So some really cool stuff coming on MTV News, on their YouTube and Facebook page. I have kind of a more career, straightforward conversation with Simu, which was fantastic and

fun. And then for Comedy Central, I got a chance, again, to catch up with Simu, and to talk to Aquafina. So some more fun stuff, silly stuff for Comedy Central. If you want to catch that stuff out, catch that stuff, rather, check out Comedy Central's YouTube page. If you want to check out a more straightforward conversation with Simu that is still delightful and fun in its own right, check out the MTV News page. Of course, I'll put up the links everywhere, so you cannot miss them. let's see other things to say well over on the patreon page a lot going on we have a new game night i think by the time you listen to this i'm not going to try not to drink it's happened already

i just need to kind of hit send um we have a new game night a new game night out um and this one i'm so stoked about this is a reunion of the once upon a time cast three key members of once upon a time have come together for a game night on the happy second confused patreon page That, of course, means Colin O'Donoghue, who's been on Game Night before, but also Josh Dallas and Emily Deraven. Four different time zones around the world came together for your entertainment guys, and it was a fun reunion with people I adore talking about, a little bit about a show I adore, but mostly just playing silly games. So if you want to catch that, go over to patreon.com slash happy, say I'm confused. You can check it out there along with video versions of the podcast. Got a chance to put up the video version of my James McAvoy conversation and Sharon Horgan from last week.

Joe will be up there as many video versions of the podcast as possible we put up on the Patreon. So I've been getting great feedback on it. Thank you guys so much for choosing to join the Patreon if you have. And if you haven't, give it a whirl if you feel like it. I know it costs a little bit, but, you know, we're trying to make it the value, you know, worthwhile for you guys, and it does take some man hours and people to make the Patreon happen. So hope everybody's digging it, and thank you again for your support over there. I think that's all I'm going to tease for now, except to say we already have some really cool

podcasts that are banked, that are done, that are in the can that are coming up in the next few weeks. I've been watching a lot of really cool fall TV and film. I'm not sure what I can talk about and what I can't talk. about, hmm, what to tease. What to tease? Well, I can say impeachment, the American Crime Story Show, starring Sarah Paulson and Beanie Feldstein, very engrossing. You can check that out. What else could I say? What else could I say? Oh, that's all I'll tease for now. There's some big stuff coming in all the stuff I'm doing, but I don't want to, I don't want to ruin it prematurely, guys. Okay. Okay, let's get to the main event.

This is Joseph Gordon Levitt. Again, his new show is Mr. Corman. Check it out on Apple TV Plus. It's a true labor of love for him. And we've got to support Joe because he's a good one out there. And it's really entertaining and fun and smart and interesting, just like Joe. I hope you enjoy this chat with Mr. Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I don't do formal introductions, Mr. Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

You are now on the happy, sad, confused podcast, whether you know or not. it's good to see you man i i i uh i you know what one of the things i love most about what i get to do is um by sticking around as long as i've done um i get to meet people in different phases of their life and i've been talking to you since you were in mid late 20s yeah you're 40 now man you know family and it's just it's it's it's honestly you know and all and happy to hear you have a family too. Yeah, I'm very happy. And, you know, I sometimes feel like I'm a little bit more fixed and granite than the people I talk to, but in a good way. I'm happy with my life. But I'm also very happy for all your success and the ways that you in particular have explored your creativity

over the years, because there's nobody more curious and offensive than Mr. Joseph Gordon-Level. Oh, that's really sweet, man. If there's one, one complimentary adjective, curious might be up there. That's really nice. Thank you. I mean it. And we'll get into all of it. But I mean, like, you know, Mr. Corman is why we're talking today. And this is clearly a labor of love. And in some ways, it feels like a very, very pure expression of your view of the universe, even if it is a collaborative art form, if this feels born of your spirit. Yeah. Thanks, man.

And that that was something I was trying for the whole time was just being really honest. And not not saying like, okay, well, would what would this person want or what would that cohort want or what would this platform want and credit to Apple for giving me the creative freedom to do that and I made something that's really to my taste and that I find really you know it's very it's very much the kind of thing that I would want to watch so yeah and I really I really appreciate getting the opportunity to make it. So this one, it also, it's curious like when this one came about for you and that like you clearly took a little bit of a break to focus on family and to kind of like reorient a little

bit. And then out of that, interestingly enough, comes this thing, which is very much to paraphrase another streaming show right now, a what if kind of the roads, the other roads not taken. And because this does feel like an alternate universe, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, in some ways. Yeah, that is pretty precisely what it is. And when I look back on the first, my first notes, when I was first writing down ideas for this show, it was they were there in 2015, which is the year I became a dad. So it's funny, you say, because that is, I did. I took a break from show business for a couple of years. and just focused on being a dad and, you know, kind of took stock of my life.

And I think becoming a dad made me feel very much like, okay, now there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I am a grown-up. Right. I think before that, it's a little nebulous when you really become a grown-up or don't. It's honestly still nebulous because in many ways, I still feel much of the same ways I've always felt ever since I was a little kid. But once there's these, you know, young people involved. who I'm going to be responsible for and who I care so much about in a whole different way

than I've ever cared about anything, that felt to me like, okay, that's a threshold. Now I'm, now I'm an adult. And taking stock of what my life was, I felt so grateful for so many things, having found a partner who I love so much, and having our kids and having two parents in my own who are really reliable or getting to do work that I care about, or just living in a safe place or being healthy, so many things that I felt grateful for. And where that led my mind was thinking, you know, a lot of these things just come down to luck.

Like, I know plenty of people who are wonderful people who just haven't met their partner yet. They just haven't met them. And I happened to meet mine. And how lucky I got that she and I happened to find each other. and you know or my parents i'm so lucky for the two parents that i have i i know other people who are again wonderful people and um but maybe don't have uh such healthy positive parents as as i was lucky enough to have and so i started kind of thinking about these things where i got lucky and

and changing some of them, not all of them, but just some of them. And that's where this character of Josh Corman kind of arrived. And Needless to say also with career respect, the career. I mean, like Needles to say, as you well know, you're in a profession that yes, rewards the best, but also, my gosh, more luck involved than most. Well, here's what I would say. You can't stay at the top ostensibly without. a healthy amount of talent usually yeah i i mean of course it's it's complicated but i when i

when i hear you sometimes hear people saying like i deserve everything i got i worked for it or blah blah blah like no nope it's just just not how show business works i don't think that's how really anything in the world works but there's there is a healthy healthy dose of luck to anybody that has succeeded in show business because I know plenty of people who are incredibly talented, incredibly hardworking that just didn't get those lucky breaks. It's curious to me that anxiety really hangs over this character and this show because it's certainly a part of all our lives to varying degrees. But when I think of you, I think of a very confident performer, actually.

I think of somebody that feels very like seemingly comfortable in their own skin and in many different kinds of like big environments like on a on a stage on an award show like it seems like you're like in your element and maybe part of that's just like you've been doing it for so long but is it all a facade is there still an inner kind of child that's crying when you're on an academy award stage or what i mean what's going on there yeah i mean i i i don't know that it's all a facade i think i think that part's true but there are other parts that are true that i don't usually get to show and yeah my mind will sometimes go to some negative places and um i don't i don't i don't usually share that like with for example you josh when i'm seeing you you know i'm i'm

like i'm usually rubbed up perfect version yeah i'm i'm upbeat and and telling people about you know a movie or something that i made that i really care about and um it that there's no use in me telling you about my insecurities or you know the moments where i doubt myself um but uh yeah i i experience those moments and it's it's it's not that i i i know that i have so much to be grateful for it's incredible i i say thank you i i think i usually remember every day to just say thank you oh my god i can't believe how lucky i am but sometimes my brain still just goes to darker places. And I, you know, I tell it not to. I'm like, hey, don't do that. You have so much to be happy about. Why would you go to these dark places?

But it does anyway. And, you know, so the, I do personally have that tendency. And then this character, Josh Corman, which sounds sort of like Joseph Gordon, his brain is doing that maybe even a bit more than mine does. And I'm close with some people that experience, you know, diagnosable anxiety disorders. It's actually incredibly common. It's one out of every six people in the United States is going through some kind of diagnosable anxiety disorder. And I actually did. I went to a doctor once talking about my own thoughts in mind. And I can't way knowing I don't have what would be diagnosable as an anxiety disorder. So there's there's really, I think, kind of a, there's a gradient.

Yeah. But it's something that I think it's built into being a human being. We're, you know, we're worrying machines. That's what we do. When our ancestors were running around in the wild trying to survive, we had to keep out, you know, keep a lookout of like, what's the next thing that's going to kill us? If you're not worried, you're going to be eaten by that bear very quickly. Exactly, exactly.

So our brains are built to do that. And I don't know. I've found that a lot of people that are some of my favorite people worry a lot and go to negative places sometimes. I sometimes don't, I actually don't trust the people that are so comfortable in their own skin and so at peace all the time. Like, really? I can't relate to you on that level. Speaking of anxiety, I mean, I think the last time we connected was on the east. of you making the show it was at sundance you were so stoked i remember you're so excited to do this

the last in-person sundance so far i know um but then obviously you endeavor to make this you start making it you start shooting it and like the rest of the world you shut down right i did not realize this until i was like halfway through the show and i started reading up on it that certainly there's there's nothing on the screen that indicates this but you guys relocated to new zealand which is fascinating to me. Talk to me a little bit about how that pivot happened. And I mean, clearly, if you watch the show to the end, you see COVID, you know, is there without being, you know, the main driving force of the show, but it's present. Talking about the evolution of how the show evolved, both thematically and also just physically moving to New Zealand.

Yeah. So like you said, there was, we were three weeks into shooting when the pandemic arrived. And what's hilarious is, I don't know if hilarious is the right word. that goes to show you what my sense of humor is, but I find it hilarious that that days prior to us shutting down entirely. I remember having a conversation with, you know, one of my, one of my producers saying, like, do you think this whole, uh, coronavirus thing will actually impact our shooting schedule? And we were that oblivious, like, we all were though. We all were. So, so soon before it actually all fell down. But, so we tried our very best to try to get our production up and running in Los Angeles again.

But it was, we didn't find a way that was, that felt safe and feasible. And my intrepid producing partners at A24 had the brilliant idea to go to New Zealand. I remember when Ravi called me. And Ravi was like, would you ever consider, going and spending a lot of time in New Zealand. And I was, I just hit the roof. I mean, because the truth is, is that my wife and I had already been fantasizing about, because, you know, they're the one of the only places in the world to have handled the pandemic in such a thorough way. And it's a huge tribute to their leader, Jacinda Arden, as well as the, I think even more so,

just the people. The people of New Zealand are really community-oriented and team players. And they, that's a generalization, of course, but there really is something in the culture there that I think allowed them to pull together as a nation and beat it together. And so we were able to go there and finish our show. And then, you know, you asked about, I don't mean to keep talking about. No, please. Yeah, in terms of what the show is actually about, has to change a bit. Yeah, so we had to start rewriting because we were, you know, we were posed with the question of like, okay, so should we just keep going with these scripts we've already written? That feels weird because this isn't an escapist show. You know, it's not Game of Thrones. It's a show about real people and real life. Yeah. And it just didn't feel like real life was going to be reflected by the reality before the pandemic. So, but we all. also felt like, but we don't want to set the whole thing during the pandemic. Yeah.

And we talked about the possibility of, well, we could set it after the pandemic, but nobody knows when that is or what the world will look like. So. Are they flying cars then? Because we don't know how long it was like. Exactly. Exactly. So we ended up, we ended up making just the last three episodes showing the pandemic

arriving and so we made almost sort of like a work of historical fiction because it's it's only like a you know whatever a year and a half ago or something but it feels like an eternity ago it feels like history the the days when before the pandemic arrived and when it arrived and so yeah episode one you see on mr corman's chalkboard that it's 2019 and and then right at the end of episode seven you see oh it's march of 2020 and then episode eight, nine, and ten are set during the pandemic. And only one of the episodes really focuses on it. Episode eight is sort of, that's the only new script that we wrote from scratch during the

pandemic. And it's about that. And then episodes nine and ten are sort of versions of what we had before, but now set in this new time. And by the way, I just most recently watched those and those are some of my favorites. I mean, I want to get into the acting and the guest actors. but like human weaving is just fantastic. I know, I love that episode.

I'm happy you see him out. I really, really dug that. I mean, not to ruin anything, but you get to see a side of Hugo Weaving, you haven't seen before. But talk to me a little bit about like, one of the things, again, I love about the series, and I think it really reflects you

and your disparate kind of interests, is the big swings it takes. And sort of as you see the show progress, you realize more and more like, this is so non-formulic. Like, there are going to be perspective, shifts there's going to be animation there's going to be just a lot of what i would call big swings which i love whether they work or not in any form i want to i want to see a big swing um was that baked into the

concept from the start when you started to kind of outline the arc of this show like this is episode six we're going to shift perspective and then we're going to do it again in nine or whatever or what yeah it was it was always something i really wanted to do i i i wanted more than anything to show something really honest and that felt real and um in fact the first draft of the script that i wrote was very much just realism and uh it was uh it was ryan johnson in fact he gave me this really great piece of feedback and he was like okay this this does feel very real but i also know you and i know how much you like to play play. And I feel like, you know, this, you could do that here. If this is your thing and you're

trying to make kind of the most honest and true to yourself thing, to me, it wouldn't feel like you if you didn't play. And I thought that was a really great piece of feedback. And I also think that if you're going to make something that feels really real, for me, you have to play around because reality doesn't always feel real. Real life to me sometimes feels crazy and hard to understand or hard to predict or like you don't know what's happening or like this just got really bizarre. That's how real life feels to me. How often do we say to our friends and family like this can't be happening? What the fuck is? is beyond who could have who could have written this well i like how you put that this can't be happy so yeah so

there are these moments where the character's just feeling feelings that are too big to really capture through just pure realism and you know for example you know he this is a character who really loves his mom and is very close with her but they have they also project their own insecurities onto each other and they have a complicated relationship and they have trouble saying i love you to each other And, you know, you could just have a moment over the two of them, pause and sigh and get back in the car and don't say I love you. But I don't think that would really capture how it really, really feels. And so sing a song and dance across the rooftop of his childhood home. And that to me does capture that powerful, powerful feeling much more because we're able to depart from reality.

You direct a number of the episodes. I'm curious, you know, we talked way back going when you directed your feature, Don John, but I'm curious how you direct your actors. Does it reflect how you want to be directed as an actor? Yeah, I think so. I, uh, well, one of the things that I, I find a lot with acting and directing is sometimes the little subtle things are hard to talk about. It's hard to put them into words. and it's always sort of a challenge to have a conversation with the director and really feel confident like oh i know exactly what it is that you're looking for that's a subtle thing but i think i get it right and um and when i'm acting and directing at the same time sometimes i don't even need to have that conversation

i don't need to go to the actor as a director and say so you know if this thing Like, can we change it subtly? Because that can be muddy or more confusing than helpful. And what I can often do is just change my own performance a little bit. And, you know, I was working with incredible actors in Mr. Corman. So they're going to be listening and they're going to be really tuned in to the other actor that they're acting with. And if I make a little change, it'll probably bring something different out in them. And so I really love acting and directing at the same time.

I also love directing and not acting, but I've done less of it. I want to do more of it. What's the note you've been given at some point in your career on a set that you'll never pass on to another actor? That was totally unhelpful. That was just something you can't actually or just don't find helpful as an actor. Yeah, that's funny. I remember I was once on the set of a commercial

when I was like 11 or something like that and I feel bad for the director because I just didn't really want to be there, I think. And, you know, it was a commercial. So I was supposed to be like, oh, commercial. Oh, hey, you know, super bright and over-the-top smiley. and, you know, even when I was a kid, I didn't like that. You were cursed with good taste, even from the...

Honest, like, this isn't real acting. And the poor guy was just, like, trying to get me to be up. And he would just, I remember he had this little, like, sound effects machine. Like, he would push a button, and it would go, like, Aruga or something, or he'd push another button, and he would, you know, aye, aye, aye. And he would, like, make these sound effects right before, saying action. And it is so distracting and made it so much worse. But he was trying to you're doing great. We just need a little more. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I understand he was he was

desperate. He was reaching for something. He was dealing with a kid that like was didn't want to be there. I don't blame the guy. But yeah, that was a tough day on set. You brought up some of your early experiences. Let's let's let's go back. if you'll indulge me a little bit. I'm curious. One of the things I asked for I've been talking to a lot of people in the last year are about comfort films because I think it's very telling and interesting what people select. Before we get to yours, just tell me first, who do you think most informed your taste in film growing up? Did it come from parents, your brother, friends? Did you find it all on your own well certainly certainly my mom um but i'll i'll take this moment to to say um a really good friend of

mine lifelong friend named scott um who showed me so many films that i did not know about um he's a few years older than i am and i mean so many of my favorites are things that scott turned me on to certainly all the more artsy stuff like felonio godard or any of those things but but also i mean i think the first time i saw a tarentino movie was with scott the first time i saw a cohen brother's movie was with scott i remember being in the theater and watching fargo and watching reservoir dogs and it was it was trips to the you know to the new beverly or whatever with with scott he's he's still someone i i love dearly and um he was he's really probably the best answer answer to your question. And at about what age did your mind kind of start to open up to realize

that there were these kind of amazing autores and experimental filmmakers out there that were worth? Probably like around 13ish, something like that. Yeah, Scott. Scott Ferguson, I should say, he's a, he's a professor now, actually. Nice. At University of South Florida. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So I don't know if it was Scott or someone else or you found this on your own, but your pick stands apart from a lot of the picks I've gotten. I don't think we've had almost any animation at all. I looked at the list and I was like, what? No animated films?

How is that possible? These are supposed to be comfort films. I know, I know. There have been a lot of disturbing picks for comfort movies, things from like. I didn't go there to. Yeah, you know, exactly. But you did, you went to something that, well, this is, this opens up a whole, like, kind of world of animation and a really revered section.

Talk to me about your love of this. film in particular and what brought you to it and what you love about it. Sure. Well, yeah, you asked for a comfort film and it is true. I find comfort in some really dark and brutal films sometimes. Like I really love, I don't know, no country for old men or something. I would actually take great comfort in that. But seeing as I think what you asked for was a comfort movie, like a movie that someone else could put on, if you're listening to this right now, something that I think will provide peace and comfort and tranquility. And so I picked the movie, My Neighbor Totoro, which is an animated movie by Miyazaki.

You'd recognize his style and his movies if you don't know his name. He's the founder of Studio Ghibli and sort of a, I'm not an expert on anime. I'm really not. But I think I know enough of them, and they would all agree, that Miyazaki is sort of a pinnacle artistic figure in in the realm and potro is one of his earlier movies and uh it is yeah if you ask for comfort there's there's something so profoundly good-hearted about this movie there are no antagonists um even though it's it's gripping um but it's i think and especially this is it's that I loved before, but I've especially grown to love it, watching it with my kids.

Oh, wow. You know, it, it, the, the, the two main characters are two children, and, um, it captures the, I think the mindset of a child better than any film that I could really name other than, other than this one. Wow. It, and I think there's, you know, look, I'm a fan of Disney movies, um, and, and I think there's, you know, look, I'm a fan of Disney movies, and I think there are some great ones. You know, Moana, for instance, movie.

I've been watching a lot lately, I think is a brilliant movie. But it's, you know, Moana, the story, like the story of Moana is pretty similar to the story of a Marvel movie or a Star Wars movie. It's an action-adventure movie, really, and it's, there are, you know, the problems are solved with fights, and it's, it's very entertaining for, a kid. But Totoro captures, I think, what being a kid is really a lot more like, where you're not off, you know, fighting battles to save the world necessarily, but you are experiencing deeply wondrous magic in the simpler things, perhaps. And the nature around you, just staring into the forest or clouds and kind of letting your imagination take flight.

Yeah, because that's him. Totoro is, he's this forest spirit. And he's, he's this incredibly beautiful, kind of cute, but also like half scary, gigantic creature that's sort of like a, he's sort of like a rabbit or sort of like a cat and sort of like a, he's this kind of, you can't put your finger on exactly what he is. But he's the spirit of the forest. And, and it's not exactly clear whether he's. he's real or not and the movie like definitely makes it impossible to know um whether he's real or not

and uh yeah it's just a delight i love totro well i thank you for picking it because this is one this was a blind spot for me i've seen some of miazaki's work but i hadn't watched it until yesterday so this gave me a good excuse to catch up to it and it's everything you describe and it is it is that thing that like i'm sure must must just like ignite the imagination of children but also like works on so many levels to the point like I was reading up on it like no less than like Akira Kurosawa said this is like one of his favorite films like this is like high brow and also for the kids and just it works on all the levels and it's um ethereal and magical in all the right ways so and the good news by the way to the people listening is it happens to be available on

HBO max in this world streaming everything's out there so no excuses check it out um well let's go through a little bit more of just sort of like some general like career stuff because again we're bouncing around a bit but we have the luxury of time when you're growing up and you're and you start to pursue acting and doing the commercials and the guest spots were your parents surprised that you that you stuck with it like did they think it was a passing fancy or did did they know from the start this was going to be a lifelong pursuit none of us thought of it as a lifelong pursuit at first I was so young. I started when I was six. But my parents were, I'm so grateful for my parents. They were just really supportive of anything that either my brother or I were excited about. And I was really excited about this. The reason that it became a professional thing comes down to luck like we were talking about a minute ago. I happened to be born and raised in a suburb of Los Angeles. where it was a relatively short drive to the auditions to be on TV shows and commercials and movies and stuff.

And if I hadn't grown up there, if we had grown up in a house, you know, an hour further to the north, probably none of this would have, you know, would have happened. That's luck. It's so funny to look back at, I mean, I'm obviously so familiar, especially with your work in the last, you know, 10, 15 years when we've been talking. I've really been, like, covering this stuff closely, but to look at the early stuff and to realize I was watching you in things when I was growing up, I didn't even realize I was watching you in. Like, I rewatched, like, the opening credits to like the dark shadows reboot. And there you are. Like, oh, my God, I remember I saw this when I was a kid. You did. Wow. You remember that? Oh, yeah. That's so funny. I loved that job. That was a really fun job. I remember really liking that. Getting to be in a show with vampires and stuff when I was nine, it was so cool. Of course. Of course. Then you were in a movie that I totally forgot existed until literally yesterday when I was reading up on it. What a bizarre movie directed by the great Leonard Nimoy, holy matrimony. Yeah, yeah. That was another really, really great one, especially because Leonard was such a sweet, great guy and director.

For those who don't know, Leonard Nimoy played Spock in the original Star Trek. And yeah, he directed this fairly lighthearted comedy that I was in when I was 12. Like right before, same year that I shot Angels in the Outfield, I shot Holy Matrimony. And it's the funny story where I was playing a kid in this religious community, sort of like the Amish. But they're called Hutterites. And religiously, if your brother dies, you have to marry the, you have to marry your brother's spouse. And so it's a story about me, this 12-year-old, having to marry Patricia Arquette. who had just finished doing true romance and it was also confusing is this for you as a 12 year old

boy about to go through puberty to be like with oh yeah i mean i i had the the biggest crush on patricia because of course she was beautiful but beyond that um she was so sweet and supportive and and good to me as an actor as you know she was a you know a grown up and um i mean grown up I don't know how old she was. She's probably like 25 or something, but, you know, I was 12. So she was a grown up and helping me. Like, this was one of the first times I had a part this big where I was in the whole movie. And she was just so, so, such a good friend and mentor. Yeah, I was deeply in love with her. And yeah, I haven't, I haven't got back and watched that movie. And I don't know how long, but I love them. That's really funny you bring it up. not so long after that obviously you join third rock from the sun and you know again one of the watchwords of this conversation is luck i mean you could end up on a lot of different kinds of shows that last a while that don't feature the likes of john let's go and jane kirk as people to kind of like have as your north star like talk about like a great master class i mean let's go i've talked

to him he's been on the podcast i mean there's not a more gentle smart brave interesting performer Yeah, John is such a hero and a dear friend. I mean, I, and I love him so much. And I mean, we were just emailing the other day. We're still close. And what you said is it couldn't be more right. And I learned so much from him about a lot about acting and comedy in particular and performing in front of an audience. Because when I started Third Rock from the Sun, I didn't really have any experience in front of an audience. I had grown up working on TV shows and commercial. and stuff. And the whole cast of Third Rock were theater people. You know, John comes from the theater, Kristen Johnson, French Stewart, Jane Curtin on SNL. Everyone had a lot of experience in front of an audience and getting an audience to laugh and what that means. And I did not. And I learned so much from them in that regard. But I also, it's worth noting, I feel like I learned from John about how you kind of lead. He was, he was the leader. of all of us.

He set the tone of how we were going to conduct ourselves and how we were going to try our very, very, very hardest and put our whole selves into it from jump. We would do table reads. A table read is something you do usually at the beginning of a week of a show like this where everyone's just sitting around a table with scripts and you're not up and acting or anything. You're just reading your lines around the table.

We would do table reads and he would go, just full, full commitment. And of course, then we're all going to follow him there. And if he hadn't, if he had been less committed, then we would have followed him there too. And he always had such a positive attitude. He was always so supportive and kind to everybody. And, you know, as I grew up and found myself in a variety of professional environments, I realized like, oh, not all sets are like this. and John really made that happen and it's something I strive to do.

You know, now I find myself in positions of leadership and I give him a lot of credit for how I try to conduct myself and the tone I try to set when I'm in professional environments like that. He's certainly one of the best and certainly what I would call also like a fearless performer, or not afraid to play the fool if you have to and commit all the way. I mean, I like you said fearless. It's so true. He would, he would just, he really would.

He was fearless. And yeah, that's something I've, I've strived for as well. So jumping ahead a bit, I mean, you know, obviously, obviously can't cover everything. But like, there's certainly a transition point after you go to school for a bit and you start to do kind of like it's great kind of run of Sundance films, whether it's manic or mysterious skin but a clear shift is also finding a friend and collaborator and the other watchword that always comes up in our conversations and it pertains to hit record is collaboration yeah collaboration and thanks for mentioning hit record of course and we can get into it a little bit more

too but um you meet ryan johnson on for brick and my sense is you find there a friend and almost as important a collaborator someone that that that will that brings you into the process on that film. Is it fair to say you felt like on that film in particular, you had more of a seat at the table and felt like you were in on the ground floor and could collaborate in a better, more positive way? Oh, 100%. Yeah, that's Ryan's attitude. He's, it's incredible the balance he strikes because he comes with so many ideas and such a clear vision of his own, but he's also very focused on bringing others into that process and eliciting contributions and incorporating those contributions from others,

many of which are really unexpected. But, I mean, just to tell you how much he let me in on it, I remember sitting in his apartment, for some reason we sat on the floor. I don't know why we did that. We sat on the floor in his apartment before we shot Brick, and he took me through the script and told me every single shot he was planning with the camera. This is information that actors conventionally aren't privy to and aren't, it's not entirely necessary for the actor to know all this.

They never know what the whens, what the camera is. It's not your job necessarily to know that. Exactly. But it can really be helpful if you. understand what's going on with the camera if you if you like that sort of thing and and look there are there are some actors who just don't pay attention and i and there's some of the greatest actors of all time that just that don't pay attention on that and i that's their process i personally uh i like knowing where the camera is it to me that helps me um and uh and when i told him that

he was like oh i'll tell you where the camera's going to be and and he we sat there for hours and he went through shot for shot the whole script and and that's one example of many where he was always just pulling me into the process he he I remember him playing me um early versions of music that he and Nathan Johnson were working on uh and talking to me about the actor doesn't usually have any part of the conversation around what the music is going to be like in a in a movie. And Ryan included me in that and so many things. And so I think it's, it's an astute thing for you to say that, yeah, he really was a collaborator on a different level than I had experienced before. No, no actor who lasts more than, you know, a second in this

business doesn't have one or two. How the hell did that happen? Items on the resume. You think we don't have too many. You're talking about inception, I think. No, no, no. That's not. way how the hell did that happen but i do mean um that that's a good how the hell did that happen that thing just like all of a sudden fell in a positive spit on that um but i am curious i know your buddies with channing channing and you have have have known each other and worked together a lot over the years yeah who convinced who to do gi joe did you do channing did channing convince you is there any bad blood there i think that might have been more my fault yeah i think i i definitely was in on that movie before he was and um yeah i'd probably owe him some amount of apology we had fun i don't know i had

fun i mean i i got to play like a weird kooky villain he had to do you know dude he had to some of the interesting qualities i i i wasn't going to do that movie and then you know they showed me like the crazy prosthetics i was going to get to wear and everything i was like oh how how many times in my life am i going to get a chance to do this i don't know like all right let me do it So that's what happened. Is there a moment in that process where you're like, oh, shit, this is not going to be. You know, I mean, look, the movie was a hit. No, I did.

It did. It did. I don't know. I was like, I mean, this isn't necessarily my cup of tea, but I'm having a blast wearing these prosthetics and playing this kooky bad guy. And I guess, like, people are going to go see it. So, hey, cool. And by the way, on G.I. Joe is where I met Kazu.

Kazuhiro Tsuji is his name. He was one of the great makeup artists of all time. And he did my prosthetics on G.I. Joe. And then when Ryan asked me to do Looper and we were going to try to make me look like Bruce Willis somehow, I was like, I wonder if Kazu will do it. And I remember sitting at a table with Ryan and Kazu. And Kazu had photos of me and Bruce Willis next to each other. other and he was like diagramming why it wouldn't work why why I like would never look like Bruce Willis and and and and Ryan speaking to Kazu and saying like I know it won't be exactly right

it just has to hint at it that's it's enough and Kazu being like are you sure because let me show you the anatomy of a body works he drew like he drew a line between like the bottom of my nose to the top of my lip and then a line between the bottom of Bruce's nose to the top of Bruce's lip and was like, see, there's nothing I can do about that with makeup. These are just two different faces. And, but by the end of that. I would say both people were right. I would say he's right and Ryan was right. Well, exactly. Yeah. Kazu was right that I don't look exactly like a young Bruce Willis. And Ryan was right that it still works in the movie. yeah one of speaking one of speaking of channing one of the great unrealized projects that i will always

wish had happened it's i assume it's it's never going to happen now is is the guys and dolls you were going to do oh yeah i'm a big fan of guys and dolls in particular of that musical sure yeah i did guys and dolls in like community theater when i was a little kid i did guys and dolls at camp i put father aberna did my own singing nice nice did you did did is that an unrealized dream i mean i know you and channing still talk about doing a musical. Is that still in development working on? I feel like there's one called a wingman.

Is that still out there? Right. We were developing a musical called Wingman. That one seems to have not happened. Yeah, I don't know. Well, one day, Chan and I'll do something singing and dancing. Yeah, but, yeah, guys and dolls is, you know, it's funny how stuff makes it out into the press before it's a real thing.

And there's a, there's, for every one of those you hear about, there are like, many more that you don't hear about and it's just part of like making movies is like they don't you know they don't coalesce sometimes while we're in that track if you'll indulge me here are two others that could come up over the years that okay those what ifs always intrigue me and clearly there's a different road there's a different path there's a different road where you're on your like sixth ant man or guardians of the galaxy movie right now which is a cool life but you're probably not making mr corman if you're peter quill or ant man Yeah, or Don John or hit record or, I mean, you know, and I, for sure, I would be lying if I didn't have, if I didn't say I have moments where I'm like, oh man, maybe I should have been in the most popular thing ever.

That was a big opportunity. But, you know what? Like, it's also a really big opportunity to get to make the movie that I wanted to make and get to like make this company that I wanted to make. And I, you know, there's only so many hours in the day. And I, I feel I've, I've over and over again, sort of when I've amassed some amount of clout in, in show business, spent that clout to do something really like that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do. Yes. And, and, yeah, I feel lucky that I've gotten to do that. one question on your collaborations with Mr. No one. You mentioned Inception and then of course you work again on Dark Night Rises. I mean, you mentioned Ryan walking you through like every shot, everything. I'm curious like on Dark Night Rises, did he give you the whole like did he give you to the last shot like literally that you on the platform essentially becoming the air to Batman or was part of that discovered along the way for you? Yeah, he gave me that script and made it clear like other people don't have this.

so don't you know so be careful with this yeah did you was your mind when you saw that even like just what i mean watching that for the first time i was like practically screaming at the absolutely man i mean the whole all of it getting to getting to work with chris was that way you know what i didn't know though was that that that crazy zero gravity fight scene in inception i did not understand how elaborate and cool that was going to be right away it didn't read on the pages that on the on the script it says they fight period and and and and then it turned out like they you know they're like all right it's time to start your training and i was like my training whoa okay and you know show up and like enter into this month's long

training process that I honestly did not know was coming. That was an unexpected gift. Yeah, they fight does a lot of the work for Chris Nolan and that's great. Briefly, because I know I got to let you go, but in addition to Mr. Corman, a bunch of things coming up for you, did you get to collaborate again with Mr. Cemeckis? You're going to be voicing Jiminy Cricket? Yeah, we're making Pinocchio. He's making Pinocchio and he invited me to voice Jiminy Cricket. It's a talk about an unexpected gift. I love Bob and I'm so delighted and grateful that he came back to me.

We had such a good time making the walk. And, and, you know, he sent me, he sent me an original sketch of Jiminy, like, that's probably a hundred years old or something. I mean, no, maybe not 100. I think the original Pinocchio came out in 1939. so it's 2021 so it's like an 80 year old piece of paper with you know a pencil drawing of you know those disney artists back then drawing jimini cricket um he's such a kind and thoughtful and fun loving filmmaker yeah we're we're having a blast making pinocchio so no no performance capture suit for you

though you're just doing voice for this no yeah just just just voice the the human characters are humans and the non-human characters are animated again Going back to where we started, like you as this kind of like pillar of creativity in all forms, I feel like you would love digging into performance capture at some point. I would. I really, really would. Yeah, that's definitely something I'd love to do that I haven't had a chance to do yet. We did a little bit of stuff like that on the walk.

And I've done a little bit on other shows. But those are not getting to play a creature or something like that. those are, you know, getting to make a stunt look real or things like that. But, yeah, one day I would, I would love to play some kind of crazy creature. He's just getting started, guys. I mean, it is telling. I mean, look, you obviously love singing and performing and art in all aspects. And at 40, look, we're just getting started.

Musicals, performance capture, more TV shows directing. There's a lot to come. Let's direct a TV show musical about creatures that will do it. Yeah, it's because they have the factor in somewhere. Okay. We should mention briefly, hit record. Yes, as you know, I mean, I've been talking to you about this for 10, 11 years since you kind of launched it. Yeah.

Remains a great platform, this amazing collaborative space that is a rare bright spot in the social media landscape. Thanks, man. Have you? Yeah, well, you know, there's so much, there's so much art and creativity online these days that's kind of competitive where you're vying for attention. in the form of likes and followers and stuff. And we're all about like, let's take the focus off of look at me and look at me and put the focus on what could we make together. I like the idea that the Internet is a place where people come together

and make things together that they might not have been able to on their own. And that's not to say anything negative about all the amazing stuff that's online of people making stuff on their own and exhibiting it on the various platforms. But I think creativity can be more than show business, more than a path to becoming, you know, famous or something. Creativity can be something really personally meaningful and give joy and fun on a level that's a lot more lasting and powerful than the thrill you get from the disposable likes of Instagram post or high views. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it does feel like, and I admire that you, I feel like hit record has, like, maintained, I feel like you could have gone too big for your own britches and kind of like gone, like, you know what I mean? Like, you obviously produce books and music and TV, but yet somehow it doesn't feel, it still feels like a relatively small community, like the right size for what it, what it is.

Yeah, well, we really prioritize community and maintaining that positivity amongst our community over everything else. and that has meant a you know a more organic and steady growth as opposed to some of the like explosive stuff that you'll sometimes see but it's also meant that we've yeah we've been around for you know before we launched as a production company which is when I first started talking to you about it Josh you know the community existed on this little hobby message board that my brother and I were running for years before that and we've you know the hit record community has been being cool and kind and collaborative to each other for i don't know 12 13 years now or something like that and um yeah so that's that's something that matters a lot to me it's a it's a haven for me and yeah it's easy to get kind of wrapped up in show business and right getting to spend time in the hit record community is is always really refreshing and enlivening to me to be like ah art and creativity can be something other than just show business. And I'm sure for you a great reminder.

And I know what a passionate it was for your brother too and how you launched it together and that it lives on is a great tribute to him. Yeah. Thank you for mentioning Dan. Yeah. Congratulations, man, on this. Mr. Corman is the show. It's on Apple TV Plus.

Everybody should truly check it out. I mean, obviously, you really push the envelope in the best possible ways in this. If you think the show is one thing, wait, another episode. and it's going to try something inventive and weird and fascinating in the next one. And as I alluded to, it's it's just spilling over with great performances from you and Arturo and Deborah Winger, the great Deborah Winger and Hugo and Juno. So congratulations, man. I hope you're feeling good about it.

Thank you, Josh. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And always great to catch up with you, man. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. I'm a big podcast person.

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